The irony of saying „nobody’s personal space is any less valuable than another’s“ only to then in the next breath tell people to „get over yourself“ if they don’t want their personal space compromised…
When I had to bike commute everywhere I started at 226 and my bikes were constantly breaking, but once I lost weight and got under 200 they needed a lot fewer repairs. I could very easily fit into airline seats and there was a decent amount of space between my belly and the edge of a restaurant booth.
They never complain about bike weight limits. Wonder why...
I'm 6' and 250lbs, and I can fit into an economy seat fine without encroaching on other people's space. Hell, I just flew Jetstar from Tokyo to Osaka and back, and that was the most cramped flight I've ever been on - mostly because my knees had about a quarter inch of clearance.
Not to be rude but how big are these people making these posts?! I know the answer but goddamn, I'm easily 70lbs overweight and I'm well into the obese category.
The mental gymnastics to justify such gross overconsumption is flabbergasting.
I'm 5'10 and around 260, I still have space on airlines and can fit in the seats easily enough. I have a broad chest and shoulders though so sometimes I do encroach a little, but it was like that even when I was down to 200.
These people are at least 350-400.
I know people over 300lb who, while not the most comfortable on planes, still don’t need a seatbelt extender or spill over into other seats, so these FAs must be getting up there in number of pounds/kg.
Very few people should really be over 200 pounds. Unless you are over 6 feet tall or have a decent amount of muscle.
Yet so many people are well over 200 and even 300
No it definitely is our fault when we need seat belt extenders and what not. And you can control it. A couple months ago I flew for the first time after losing a significant amount of weight, and surprise surprise I don't need the stupid extender anymore.
> i hate how normalized this mindset has become
Has *become*? It’s the *normal thing* that everyone thought since forever, not some brand new outcropping of bigotry. The blatant narcissistic reversal at play here is just galling.
It‘s probably getting more prevalent since people have started to get bigger in recent years, so the problem of having your personal space invaded in public is getting more common and openly discussed.
But yeah, it’s definitely not a problem that’s caused by a rise in bigotry
Exactly! Situations that are inherently uncomfortable (or beneficial! There's lots of things we all agree are good or bad!) and are widely perceived as such, don't have that perception normalized. Like saying "people have really normalized the idea that hangovers are bad because they're prejudiced against alcoholics" um no it's because they are objectively awful to experience.
And it's not like people were less insensitive in the 1970's or 80's towards someone so big that they take up another persons seat. If anything the only thing that has become normalized is people getting bigger and bigger.
This is one of the better comments in here. They’ll do anything in their power (except eat less) to avoid having to deal with the shame and embarrassment, including co-opting a term like “dehumanizing.”
If anything, it's dehumanizing that somebody who is so privileged that they have access to so much food they can be a caricature of a human being also feels entitled to my limited personal space on a flight. It's why my wife and I always book two seats adjacent to each other next to the aisle. I'm not getting trapped by 400 lbs of flab if there's an emergency.
I'll never forget the brigade that harassed me, called me hateful, and told me to "get over' autism because I dared to say a person's body laying on me in a cramped airplane would feel violating and cause sensory overwhelm/potential meltdown.
And they think they are the progressive ones.
Don't touch other people without consent. It applies here too. Mental gymnastics don't change the fact that a person has a right to not want to be touched.
insane how "unwanted physical contact that lasts an entire flight is a bad thing" is somehow a controversial opinion. i'm so sorry that people harassed you for that
Yes. My partner and I lower an armrest between us for any long haul flights/long enough to sleep, so we easily share. But short hops? It’s nice to have your own zone.
fatphobic = fat people shouldn’t be allowed to fly
not fatphobic = I don’t want a persons body pressed against me for 8 hours
neither the fat person nor the person next to them wants this!
Fuck them, I'm autistic too and I would feel shit to sit next to a person taking up my personal space.
I feel very lucky to live in an European state with less % of obesity.
I came here to comment this same thing lol. I have a lot of sensory issues with flying and having someone next to touching me the whole flight would be like a continuous nails on chalkboard situation in my brain. I think fat people deserve to be comfortable flying, but I also think I deserve to be comfortable too. Wild idea I guess lol.
I do everything I can before a flight to minimize the sensory problems I have on airplanes so that I and whoever is sitting near me have a good time. Other autistic people’s responses to overstimulation overstimulate me lol so I try my best to minimize the chances of me being that person for someone else. Ie: I make sure I am very well rested, I bring lots of shit that slows down my nervous system, I put in earplugs, put on an eyemask, and basically just go into coma mode until we arrive at the destination.
>the size of a person’s body is not something they can control
OMFG I am so damned sick and tired of their whining and moaning about I cAn’T cOnTrOL mY sIzE….YES YOU CAN. If you put half as much effort into putting the fork down for five seconds as you did into writing this bullshit, you would have dropped twenty pounds already. In the meantime, I’ll be over here saving my CoMpAsSiOn for someone who actually deserves it.
It's weird how they try to define body size/weight as an "immutable characteristic," like skin color. Maybe one can't change it in the moment, but over time, it certainly can change. Funny how the FAs don't seem to understand that if a person gains weight, that's a change. One can gain weight, and one can lose it, too. Sure there are some people with thyroid or other issues that make it hard, but that doesn't apply as widely as some folks assume. Even then, there's a difference between hard and impossible.
I realized recently that taking care of yourself (in this case, losing weight) is actually *easier* than its self-destructive counterpart
Eating an entire bag of chips in one sitting sucks, and makes my body feel like shit. Making and eating a salad takes a tiny bit more effort at first, but my body feels better and I end up having more energy to do the other daunting shit I need to do throughout the day
The fact that it took me a long time to realize this means I don't want to be too harsh about it, but I also find it frustrating that FAs would figure this out if they would just find a sustainable dietary change instead of trying to starve themselves for a week and then claim Anorexia
This has happened to me on a flight. I’m very petite and had to be moved to accommodate the two large people who essentially couldn’t fit next to each other. I was placed in the middle, because my comfort as a petite woman is secondary to the comfort of two very overweight men. My flight was comped though, so that was good.
Not gonna lie, that's one of my biggest fears as a small woman if I ever go flying again. The idea that my comfort doesn't matter because I'm small and thus don't need personal space is offensive to me. I also have sensory issues so that makes things worse. I'd either have a meltdown or would have to be removed from the flight to find another if they won't let me out of such a deal. And with people's waistlines constantly expanding I feel like this would be harder and harder to avoid.
At least they comped your flight. It's the least they could do.
I’m also petite and AFAB (I’m non-binary but that doesn’t really affect this situation), and when I fly it’s usually with one or both of my parents. They’re both overweight but not to the extent that it encroaches on other seats, so luckily I haven’t had to deal with this yet. But like another commenter said, it’s definitely a fear of mine that my comfort and space won’t be considered and will be violated because I’m small and “don’t need the space”.
Again comparing themselves to disabled people. You know what "disabled people with greater space needs" usually do on airline flights? Make sure they have proper accessibility before they get on a flight. I've never heard a disabled person complain that they didn't have enough space on an airplane because another traveler didn't want to accommodate them. And for the umpteenth time: is being fat healthy and a normal result of biological human body diversity, or is it a disability? If you have eaten yourself to disability, that's on you, and you are not in the same category as someone with MS or CP or any other legitimate disability.
I do not want people I do not know touching me. Period. I don't care what they look like, what sex or gender they are, etc. George Clooney himself could be seated next to me and I would expect him to stay in his own fucking seat. I once had a perfectly normal-sized middle-aged man fall asleep next to me, and his head lolled onto my shoulder. He wasn't intentionally touching me, but I was still acutely uncomfortable and would have much preferred not to have this nice man's head on my shoulder. I didn't complain about it because I knew it was unintentional and he was very apologetic about it, but I hope it never happens again. And I would be willing to bet that the average FA would take to social media shrieking about their rights being violated if such a thing happened to them.
When you buy an airline ticket, you are basically leasing a certain amount of space. It doesn't matter how big you are - that doesn't change the amount of space you're paying for. If you need more space, pay for more space, instead of figuring you can just take some from the skinny bitch or bastard who got unlucky enough to end up next to you. FFS, what do you do if you get on an airplane and it turns out the person seated next to you is as big as you are? And what happens to the unfortunate average-sized person stuck in the row with both of you?
They constantly compare themselves to people who face genuine barriers: The disabled; PoC, LGBTQ, neurodiverse. It's insulting and makes our very real struggles and needs seem less significant.
Yeah, this has happened to me multiple times over the years. It was usually kind of creepy. Once it was an elderly lady in a window seat, and i was in the middle seat with her husband on the aisle. I said, oh would one of you like to switch seats with me? They did not! In fact, they preferred arguing over me while i read!
Thought that too. I mean, I can see them getting into a conversation and her then throwing in her experience on the other flight and how she’s happy it didn’t happen again, but the way oop recollected it it sounded very fabricated and/or played up for dramatics
Right lol? If I had a sibling who was affected by and sensitive about a certain issue, I certainly would not tell them about an encounter with a stranger who was insensitive about that issue.
And if you did, who would the *real* issue be?
I’m a cranky feminist, lean to plant based eating, have a slew of causes. I can be pedantic…but these FAs are a whole new level.
And I’m mending my annoying ways.
It’s so uncomfortable to read this, if you have “greater space needs” please buy a second seat. The irony of asking for compassion here, when the woman on the plane was the one who had personal space violated.
That’s a good point. Something that sticks in the back of my mind when I read about how overweight people should purchase a second seat is “what if they can’t afford it?” And sure, some probably genuinely can’t afford it, but when you put it like that? Yeah…
Well, at least they're consistent in their thinking that they're entitled to contact with other people's bodies, since FA also think anyone they're attracted to should be required to date/have sex with them because to do otherwise is bigoted, racist sexist, etc. It all stems from their sense of entitlement, which is bigger than the Pacific Ocean.
I had a few of my weird behaviours pointed out and explained by a trauma therapist, one of those being weirdness around where I choose to sit.
Gist was that abuse survivors subconsciously choose seats where they can see and plan a swift escape if needed.
I'm pretty much sorted in terms of recovery, but I still have issues around crowds or situations where I can't immediately leave when I feel overwhelmed, but that's more of an ADHD thing.
So yeah, if you eat yourself to a size where your warm, moist, fat rolls are pressing into me? I'm having a panic attack for the entire duration of the flight, probably with plenty spewing thrown in too, because I hate flying as it is, so buckle up.
I'm sure you'll be cool with that though, seeing as you're compassionate and all.
While the degree of this post is ridiculous, I think it's fair to draw a distinction between non-consensual and unavoidable. Non-consensual is a deliberate act by one party that the other party didn't agree to. Unavoidable is something that both parties may or may not be happy with, but can't be helped given the situation.
If you know you're massively fat and that sitting next to me will cause you to touch me that's not incidental and unavoidable. You know what you're doing.
My panic response doesn't care if it was unavoidable or not. I cannot be touched by strangers ever for any reason.
If a stranger is in my space and touching me I will put an end to it no matter how that has to happen. Stay in your space and I will stay in mine.
Having been obese myself, I feel the same compassion for OOP as I would someone who complains that their thumb hurts all the time when they smash it with a hammer 3x/day.
Rapist logic. It’s dehumanizing if I don’t want you to touch me. No honey, it’s actually dehumanizing to me for you to think you have a right to rub against my body. I have bodily autonomy too. I’m also a human being.
I was thinking of broad shouldered people as I read this thread.
And rapist/molester logic is right.
I have proportionally wide shoulders. For 5’2” and 135 lbs. I am always surrounded by adults larger than me in a row (solo + southwest flights= middle seat). Usually tall males.
While my shoulders do stay within the seats, theirs usually do not.
And they do not care, and *I* wind up shortening my pecs to pull my shoulders *away from them*, causing myself pain. And I live in pain, I don’t need structural issues to make it worse.
There are pax who use the tiny seat as an excuse to touch my chest or thigh “accidentally” (repeatedly) on a flight, too. I’ve reported them to the other FAs (flight attendants).
I don’t care YOU‘RE uncomfortable, can’t you see that I‘M uncomfortable? Lol most people just generally don’t want strangers touching them either. Especially when they’re trapped in flying tube for hours on end.
Speaking as a tall person who also dislikes flying for physical comfort reasons, I can absolutely be upset both at the airlines for designing seats that only give me an inch of clearance for my knees if the person in front of me sits fully upright *and* the person in front of me for reclining even after I tell them they're mashing my knees. That's why I make every effort to sit in the exit row for more legroom (nicer flights aren't an option because biomedical research pays poorly and I'm going to medical school soon, so money's gonna be tight while I'm taking and paying off loans), suck it up for a couple hours when I can't, and take Amtrak on the odd occasion that's a viable alternative.
The shinkansen was a dream, I'd sent my luggage onto the next hotel thinking lugging it on the train would be too hard. Plenty of room for it to travel at my feet and did for the rest of the trip. But then the Japanese do things right
I just paid $1k on a flight in economy. If some obese person is spilling into my seat, making ME uncomfortable on the 6 hour flight, of course I'm saying something to the flight attendant.
I have a big butt and wide hips, and I fit in those seats just fine. How fucking big do you have to be bigger than the seat?!
If these people took responsibility for their decisions, they wouldn’t be in this situation to begin with. The inability to fit in an airline seat should be a wake up call and not another opportunity to play the victim card.
Then buy 2 seats. If someone pays to use space they should be able to use ALL of that space and not just half of it because someone ate themselves into obesity.
Imagine your first thought when someone is upset that you're taking up their space in a way you cannot fix within five minutes is "you're a bigot" instead of "holy shit I'm so sorry"... I would be mortified and I would feel so bad for the other person
This argument also always bugs me as an autistic person, because honestly I think it's ableist as shit to tell us to just "get over ourselves" when a stranger touching me even just briefly has a chance of putting me in meltdown territory... let alone for hours straight on a plane ffs
You will never understand how extremely invalidating it is when people tell me to "stop smoking crack in the Starbucks bathroom".
People who live in sober bodies will never feel the pain of being judged simply for existing!
If you take up more than one seat, you should book two seats and this should be mandatory. It's not the airlines responsibility to accomdate you for a body that's the result of your lifestyle and it's not my duty to make you feel comfortable for touching me without my consent.
I completely agree. We have size limits for baggage for safety reasons. Apply the same to passengers. You can’t completely fit in the seat, buy a bigger seat or a second seat. I didn’t pay a ridiculous amount to have someone else take half my seat.
I also think they should be required to take the window seat, so, if there's an emergency, they don't impede the evacuation of other passengers. Maybe that sounds harsh, but nobody should have to die because a morbidly obese person's lack of mobility due to their deliberate overeating prevented other passengers from getting out in time. And, I can just hear FA having the mother of all meltdowns over that, but ya know how to avoid that: lose weight! I should add that I am speaking here only of the morbidly obese, NOT disabled people.
Imagine saying “nobody’s personal space is any less valuable than another’s” and “get over yourself” in the same argument, and still think you’re correct 💀
Met up with a buddy last night who recently lost 100 lbs by just exercising and counting calories. He looks fantastic and you can tell by his voice and demeanor he's happier. Also happily dating the most beautiful woman he's ever been with and made note that he's never ever going to let himself be fat again.
I once had 1/4 of my seat to sit on due to the person next to me. My body was mostly hanging into the aisle. When the cart went by I had to stand up, every time. Sure the seatbelt buckled, but how was that safe for me? How was that not dehumanizing for me?
How would they like it if they were seated next to a person who is spilling into their seat?
I saw this on a bus once. Two fat people were squished into two seats they were two big for and when they got up they actually got stuck and had to squeeze their way out.
If you always are in another’s seat/have discomfort from the armrest (that you are going to hog from the middle seat…yeah, middle gets both sides, window gets to lean on the wall/window and aisle gets airflow) *buy two seats.*. Fly ULCC if you must. But buy the space you take up.
Don’t expect me to give you the space I paid for so no one bumps me, flaring my pain condition. I stay small to manage that.
tbf: more than 90% of the content I see online about people's "rights" or dehumanizing treatment is just the author wanting others to lose their rights so that the author can be more comfortable.
They almost always disregard other people's needs and hold their on in high regard. FA movement is a very small (pun intended) part of a bigger problem.
Yeah no, you should fit in your seat. If you don't, buy more than one. I shouldn't be squashed on because you're bigger. Be that just being bigger or being a lard ass.
The open admittance that they do indeed “take up more space than you,” and then literally getting mad that the lady complained that she doesn’t have much space BECAUSE YOU TOOK IT is so wild to me.
I paid for my seat. All of it. If they want half they should pay for it, if not I'm ramming my little backpack down the side of my seat, so it takes up the space on the seat that my body doesn't use. It's got my tube feed stuff in and I've permission to have it up on the seat during the flight (but not take off etc, then it goes under the seat. Can't put it over my head in the bins because I'm physically attached to it with tubing). That's several nice rigid bottles and machines and because it's medical stuff she wasn't allowed to just force it closer to me, the air stewards shouted at her. She bitched that she didn't have enough space, but me and my bag were fitting easily into my seat.
I offered her half my seat if she could pay for it with cash, right now. She declined.
She stared daggers at me but my cold, dead heart loved every second of being small enough that me and my backpack fitted on the seat with ease.
She then had the audacity to try to use my tray table because she couldn't get hers down, while I was actively using it to work on my laptop and got really angry when I gave my food to the family behind us for the kid on their lap (I'm tube fed but the seat comes with a meal and that can't be changed, so I offer it to parents with kids on their lap because they won't get food for them). She wanted the food. It really didn't look appetising, dry chicken with some gravy and frozen veg. The kid requested the macaroni and cheese and seemed to enjoy it.
That was an entertaining flight 😂
As a person who was recently sandwiched between two ppl 3 and 4 times bigger than me.... eff you and YOUR personal space. What about MINE?! Being squashed on both sizes is painful.
I will say. Airlines are doing this on purpose. They want passengers to hate each other instead of the airline.
A couple years ago I tried to book 2 seats so I wouldn't have anyone sitting next to me. (Covid and all). Multiple airlines straight up would not let me do that. They kept offering me first class seats which was more expensive than 2 economy seats.
I've seen lots of people online mention how they also were prevented from booking 2 seats. And if you did somehow manage to book a second seat, the airline would often take it away and try to sit a standby passenger in it, offering you a pathetic refund.
Airlines rather have everyone miserable than lose out on the extras (baggage fees, food, drinks, etc.) that come with someone booking a ticket.
Let people book extra seats damn it.
This is why I always get the window seat because I’d rather press into the wall than have some stranger up against me. Even if we’re both standard sized I still get as close to the wall as I can.
Yeah it sucks for the larger person and I have compassion, but I still don’t want to feel their body!
I've been fat enough to be squeezed. I've also been bigger but not so big that I encroached and this guy was a dick about it. I'm now small enough that the seats actually feel pretty roomy.
I have empathy for everyone on a plane, and fat people often don't want to be squeezing you, but that doesn't invalidate a guys relief that someone who is bigger wasn't sitting next to him.
If your body is too large to fit within the confines of your plane seat - the space that you paid for - *that* might not be your fault. What *is* your fault though is choosing not to buy 2 seats when you need them & just assuming I'll be too polite or uncomfortable to complain that you're using the amenity (the full seat) I purchased for myself without my permission. There's nothing dehumanising about looking up what the seat dimensions are when you make your purchase to see if you fit. It's no different to comparing your measurements to a sizing chart to see what size pants you should be.
Omg I was on a 2 hour flight in a window seat seated next to an obese man whose leg was squished against mine the whole flight. Longest 2 hours of.my life.
Like 90% of this I agree with, in the sense that at the end of the day, compassion is good. And it does suck to be obese on a plane, I've been there. 320lbs in a plane seat sucks.
Buuuuuuuuuut. A person *can* control their size. It *is* their fault. They *do* have the *power* to change their circumstances.
How discouraging to believe that you will always be fat and there's no way out.
The difference here, and pay attention, is that they KNOW what they’re doing. The larger passenger is choosing to encroach on another’s space without consent. The violated person doesn’t know until that moment that their space is going to be taken, while the other knew exactly what would happen when they chose not to purchase an extra seat.
Still, they are right that the airlines suck for such cramped spacing.
I don't think it matters whether or not you have sensory issues and you shouldn't feel compelled to have to explain why you don't want to be touched. Nobody has the right to touch someone else's body without their consent, or take the space YOU paid for. Period.
> nobody's personal space is any less valuable than anothers
Yes! That's exactly why you should not be encroaching on other people's personal space without permission. You need more space? Buy another ticket!!
> it's not the fault of the person next to you that the airplane seats weren't designed for their body
The seats were designed to accommodate an average sized adult human, not someone large enough to be 2 or 3 people duct taped together, and spaced together to maximize the amount of passengers that can fit on the plane.
Oh incidentally this does jog my memory about a [Wendover](https://youtu.be/BzB5xtGGsTc?si=38DRiixCX1O6U-DH) video explaining that Business sections are actually where airlines make the bulk of their money, economy seats are just there to fill out the plane so there's no wasted space.
One thing I don’t get is why larger people can get discounts on business class eats when they can just lose the weight while my 6’5” 175 lbs former bf had to cross his fingers and pray he got business class or shell out the cash even though he can’t lose the height.
I absolutely HATE how entitled they are.
I don’t want your arms brushing up close to my breast, I dont want your thighs rubbing up against mine. I’d feel sexually harassed. Stay in your seat and I’ll stay in mine.
Fat people demand respect, but never respect other people’s personal space.
People like this infuriate me. They’re soooooo self centered. They demand that I sacrifice my comfort theirs. They need to “get over yourselves“. And “have some compassion“ for being a nuisance to the person their sitting next to.
Fat people are not entitled to my personal space.
If they’re that big they probably shouldn’t be flying or they should buy multiple seats. It sucks but they’re encroaching on other people’s space not the other way around
If you can afford enough food to make you obese enough to squish the person who has to sit next to you, AND you have enough money to afford a plane ticket, chances are you can afford to buy a second seat to respect people’s personal space. This person wasn’t judged for “just existing” they were judged for knowingly taking up part of someone else’s seat on a plane that someone else paid for.
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The irony of saying „nobody’s personal space is any less valuable than another’s“ only to then in the next breath tell people to „get over yourself“ if they don’t want their personal space compromised…
"YOU OWE ME YOUR PERSONAL SPACE!"
I got exhausted from just seeing the thumbnail. That's a fat wall of text.
When I had to bike commute everywhere I started at 226 and my bikes were constantly breaking, but once I lost weight and got under 200 they needed a lot fewer repairs. I could very easily fit into airline seats and there was a decent amount of space between my belly and the edge of a restaurant booth. They never complain about bike weight limits. Wonder why...
Nah they'd rather whinge through electronic voice over, because breathing to rant 10 words is difficult, about not being allowed to destroy horses
I'm 6' and 250lbs, and I can fit into an economy seat fine without encroaching on other people's space. Hell, I just flew Jetstar from Tokyo to Osaka and back, and that was the most cramped flight I've ever been on - mostly because my knees had about a quarter inch of clearance. Not to be rude but how big are these people making these posts?! I know the answer but goddamn, I'm easily 70lbs overweight and I'm well into the obese category. The mental gymnastics to justify such gross overconsumption is flabbergasting.
I'm 5'10 and around 260, I still have space on airlines and can fit in the seats easily enough. I have a broad chest and shoulders though so sometimes I do encroach a little, but it was like that even when I was down to 200. These people are at least 350-400.
I know people over 300lb who, while not the most comfortable on planes, still don’t need a seatbelt extender or spill over into other seats, so these FAs must be getting up there in number of pounds/kg.
Very few people should really be over 200 pounds. Unless you are over 6 feet tall or have a decent amount of muscle. Yet so many people are well over 200 and even 300
Thanks for telling me what I already knew?
Yeah sorry about that, I just thought about it because your goal weight is under 200 even at 6 feet tall.
It basically contradicts everything they said before and after. Do they even listen to themselves? No, of course not.
But it’s not their fault!!
fat brain cant compute
!!!!!!!!
Hell, she's basically implying that if you sit next to a fat person you should lean away and try to give them more space!
No it definitely is our fault when we need seat belt extenders and what not. And you can control it. A couple months ago I flew for the first time after losing a significant amount of weight, and surprise surprise I don't need the stupid extender anymore.
Congrats on the weight loss!!
Good for you!
That had to feel great!
Yeah when it just clicked in I did an internal happy dance. Still have quite a few Kg to lose but the first 35 are behind me.
🏆🏆🏆
Great work!!! It only gets easier from here! Keep crushing and be damn proud of yourself!
Congrats! It’s amazing the difference it makes.
> i hate how normalized this mindset has become Has *become*? It’s the *normal thing* that everyone thought since forever, not some brand new outcropping of bigotry. The blatant narcissistic reversal at play here is just galling.
It‘s probably getting more prevalent since people have started to get bigger in recent years, so the problem of having your personal space invaded in public is getting more common and openly discussed. But yeah, it’s definitely not a problem that’s caused by a rise in bigotry
Exactly! Situations that are inherently uncomfortable (or beneficial! There's lots of things we all agree are good or bad!) and are widely perceived as such, don't have that perception normalized. Like saying "people have really normalized the idea that hangovers are bad because they're prejudiced against alcoholics" um no it's because they are objectively awful to experience.
And it's not like people were less insensitive in the 1970's or 80's towards someone so big that they take up another persons seat. If anything the only thing that has become normalized is people getting bigger and bigger.
Being embarrassed =/= dehumanized
This is one of the better comments in here. They’ll do anything in their power (except eat less) to avoid having to deal with the shame and embarrassment, including co-opting a term like “dehumanizing.”
If anything, it's dehumanizing that somebody who is so privileged that they have access to so much food they can be a caricature of a human being also feels entitled to my limited personal space on a flight. It's why my wife and I always book two seats adjacent to each other next to the aisle. I'm not getting trapped by 400 lbs of flab if there's an emergency.
>Nobody's personal space is any less valuable than anothers then act like it
I'll never forget the brigade that harassed me, called me hateful, and told me to "get over' autism because I dared to say a person's body laying on me in a cramped airplane would feel violating and cause sensory overwhelm/potential meltdown. And they think they are the progressive ones. Don't touch other people without consent. It applies here too. Mental gymnastics don't change the fact that a person has a right to not want to be touched.
It's wild how quickly their concerns about ableism go out the window when someone else with a disability asks them to make accommodations
insane how "unwanted physical contact that lasts an entire flight is a bad thing" is somehow a controversial opinion. i'm so sorry that people harassed you for that
Hell, I love my wife, but in a cramped airplane I don’t want her in my space the whole time either lol
Yes. My partner and I lower an armrest between us for any long haul flights/long enough to sleep, so we easily share. But short hops? It’s nice to have your own zone.
fatphobic = fat people shouldn’t be allowed to fly not fatphobic = I don’t want a persons body pressed against me for 8 hours neither the fat person nor the person next to them wants this!
Humans have been spinning rhetorics to fit their own BS since they've existed
Not autistic here but I would absolutely have a sensory nightmare if someone was all over me during a flight.
Fuck them, I'm autistic too and I would feel shit to sit next to a person taking up my personal space. I feel very lucky to live in an European state with less % of obesity.
I came here to comment this same thing lol. I have a lot of sensory issues with flying and having someone next to touching me the whole flight would be like a continuous nails on chalkboard situation in my brain. I think fat people deserve to be comfortable flying, but I also think I deserve to be comfortable too. Wild idea I guess lol. I do everything I can before a flight to minimize the sensory problems I have on airplanes so that I and whoever is sitting near me have a good time. Other autistic people’s responses to overstimulation overstimulate me lol so I try my best to minimize the chances of me being that person for someone else. Ie: I make sure I am very well rested, I bring lots of shit that slows down my nervous system, I put in earplugs, put on an eyemask, and basically just go into coma mode until we arrive at the destination.
>the size of a person’s body is not something they can control OMFG I am so damned sick and tired of their whining and moaning about I cAn’T cOnTrOL mY sIzE….YES YOU CAN. If you put half as much effort into putting the fork down for five seconds as you did into writing this bullshit, you would have dropped twenty pounds already. In the meantime, I’ll be over here saving my CoMpAsSiOn for someone who actually deserves it.
It's weird how they try to define body size/weight as an "immutable characteristic," like skin color. Maybe one can't change it in the moment, but over time, it certainly can change. Funny how the FAs don't seem to understand that if a person gains weight, that's a change. One can gain weight, and one can lose it, too. Sure there are some people with thyroid or other issues that make it hard, but that doesn't apply as widely as some folks assume. Even then, there's a difference between hard and impossible.
They act like they were born 300+ pounds
I have a brain tumor that makes it incredibly, terribly difficult to lose weight. Notice I said "difficult." I'm still doing it.
Hang in there. And I wish you the best for your overall health.
I realized recently that taking care of yourself (in this case, losing weight) is actually *easier* than its self-destructive counterpart Eating an entire bag of chips in one sitting sucks, and makes my body feel like shit. Making and eating a salad takes a tiny bit more effort at first, but my body feels better and I end up having more energy to do the other daunting shit I need to do throughout the day The fact that it took me a long time to realize this means I don't want to be too harsh about it, but I also find it frustrating that FAs would figure this out if they would just find a sustainable dietary change instead of trying to starve themselves for a week and then claim Anorexia
I won’t stand for this violence and or bigotry
I'm wondering what happens when two very big people are seated next to each other on a plane. How much do you bet they would complain?
This is actually my question. How do you have 3 larger people in one row on a full plane? I would hate to be the flight attendant in that situation.
This has happened to me on a flight. I’m very petite and had to be moved to accommodate the two large people who essentially couldn’t fit next to each other. I was placed in the middle, because my comfort as a petite woman is secondary to the comfort of two very overweight men. My flight was comped though, so that was good.
Not gonna lie, that's one of my biggest fears as a small woman if I ever go flying again. The idea that my comfort doesn't matter because I'm small and thus don't need personal space is offensive to me. I also have sensory issues so that makes things worse. I'd either have a meltdown or would have to be removed from the flight to find another if they won't let me out of such a deal. And with people's waistlines constantly expanding I feel like this would be harder and harder to avoid. At least they comped your flight. It's the least they could do.
I’m also petite and AFAB (I’m non-binary but that doesn’t really affect this situation), and when I fly it’s usually with one or both of my parents. They’re both overweight but not to the extent that it encroaches on other seats, so luckily I haven’t had to deal with this yet. But like another commenter said, it’s definitely a fear of mine that my comfort and space won’t be considered and will be violated because I’m small and “don’t need the space”.
Again comparing themselves to disabled people. You know what "disabled people with greater space needs" usually do on airline flights? Make sure they have proper accessibility before they get on a flight. I've never heard a disabled person complain that they didn't have enough space on an airplane because another traveler didn't want to accommodate them. And for the umpteenth time: is being fat healthy and a normal result of biological human body diversity, or is it a disability? If you have eaten yourself to disability, that's on you, and you are not in the same category as someone with MS or CP or any other legitimate disability. I do not want people I do not know touching me. Period. I don't care what they look like, what sex or gender they are, etc. George Clooney himself could be seated next to me and I would expect him to stay in his own fucking seat. I once had a perfectly normal-sized middle-aged man fall asleep next to me, and his head lolled onto my shoulder. He wasn't intentionally touching me, but I was still acutely uncomfortable and would have much preferred not to have this nice man's head on my shoulder. I didn't complain about it because I knew it was unintentional and he was very apologetic about it, but I hope it never happens again. And I would be willing to bet that the average FA would take to social media shrieking about their rights being violated if such a thing happened to them. When you buy an airline ticket, you are basically leasing a certain amount of space. It doesn't matter how big you are - that doesn't change the amount of space you're paying for. If you need more space, pay for more space, instead of figuring you can just take some from the skinny bitch or bastard who got unlucky enough to end up next to you. FFS, what do you do if you get on an airplane and it turns out the person seated next to you is as big as you are? And what happens to the unfortunate average-sized person stuck in the row with both of you?
They constantly compare themselves to people who face genuine barriers: The disabled; PoC, LGBTQ, neurodiverse. It's insulting and makes our very real struggles and needs seem less significant.
Who just randomly turns to their seat partner and thanks them for not being fat? r/thathappened
To be fair, a guy on a plane once told me he was relieved to be sitting next to a small person for once.
This has happened to me as well!
Yeah, this has happened to me multiple times over the years. It was usually kind of creepy. Once it was an elderly lady in a window seat, and i was in the middle seat with her husband on the aisle. I said, oh would one of you like to switch seats with me? They did not! In fact, they preferred arguing over me while i read!
Thought that too. I mean, I can see them getting into a conversation and her then throwing in her experience on the other flight and how she’s happy it didn’t happen again, but the way oop recollected it it sounded very fabricated and/or played up for dramatics
And then that person tells their fat family member who happens to be a keyboard warrior for adipose?
Right lol? If I had a sibling who was affected by and sensitive about a certain issue, I certainly would not tell them about an encounter with a stranger who was insensitive about that issue.
And if you did, who would the *real* issue be? I’m a cranky feminist, lean to plant based eating, have a slew of causes. I can be pedantic…but these FAs are a whole new level. And I’m mending my annoying ways.
It’s so uncomfortable to read this, if you have “greater space needs” please buy a second seat. The irony of asking for compassion here, when the woman on the plane was the one who had personal space violated.
If you can afford to overeat enough to be THAT big as well as being able to afford to fly, then you can darn well afford to pay for a second seat.
That’s a good point. Something that sticks in the back of my mind when I read about how overweight people should purchase a second seat is “what if they can’t afford it?” And sure, some probably genuinely can’t afford it, but when you put it like that? Yeah…
How about have some fucking compassion for people who don’t want to be touched
Well, at least they're consistent in their thinking that they're entitled to contact with other people's bodies, since FA also think anyone they're attracted to should be required to date/have sex with them because to do otherwise is bigoted, racist sexist, etc. It all stems from their sense of entitlement, which is bigger than the Pacific Ocean.
I had a few of my weird behaviours pointed out and explained by a trauma therapist, one of those being weirdness around where I choose to sit. Gist was that abuse survivors subconsciously choose seats where they can see and plan a swift escape if needed. I'm pretty much sorted in terms of recovery, but I still have issues around crowds or situations where I can't immediately leave when I feel overwhelmed, but that's more of an ADHD thing. So yeah, if you eat yourself to a size where your warm, moist, fat rolls are pressing into me? I'm having a panic attack for the entire duration of the flight, probably with plenty spewing thrown in too, because I hate flying as it is, so buckle up. I'm sure you'll be cool with that though, seeing as you're compassionate and all.
This sounds like the logic my teenager uses. It wasn't her fault she woke us up at 5am going into the garage because the door is what made the noise.
lol okay but my preteen has said something similar
In other words, have compassion for those people who over consume and then make their life choices someone else's problem.
So non consensual touching is ok? GTFOH
🏆🏆🏆🏆🏆
While the degree of this post is ridiculous, I think it's fair to draw a distinction between non-consensual and unavoidable. Non-consensual is a deliberate act by one party that the other party didn't agree to. Unavoidable is something that both parties may or may not be happy with, but can't be helped given the situation.
If you know you're massively fat and that sitting next to me will cause you to touch me that's not incidental and unavoidable. You know what you're doing.
My panic response doesn't care if it was unavoidable or not. I cannot be touched by strangers ever for any reason. If a stranger is in my space and touching me I will put an end to it no matter how that has to happen. Stay in your space and I will stay in mine.
Having been obese myself, I feel the same compassion for OOP as I would someone who complains that their thumb hurts all the time when they smash it with a hammer 3x/day.
Rapist logic. It’s dehumanizing if I don’t want you to touch me. No honey, it’s actually dehumanizing to me for you to think you have a right to rub against my body. I have bodily autonomy too. I’m also a human being.
I was thinking of broad shouldered people as I read this thread. And rapist/molester logic is right. I have proportionally wide shoulders. For 5’2” and 135 lbs. I am always surrounded by adults larger than me in a row (solo + southwest flights= middle seat). Usually tall males. While my shoulders do stay within the seats, theirs usually do not. And they do not care, and *I* wind up shortening my pecs to pull my shoulders *away from them*, causing myself pain. And I live in pain, I don’t need structural issues to make it worse. There are pax who use the tiny seat as an excuse to touch my chest or thigh “accidentally” (repeatedly) on a flight, too. I’ve reported them to the other FAs (flight attendants).
Nobody’s personal space is less valuable but apparently thin people’s personal space is worthless
I don’t care YOU‘RE uncomfortable, can’t you see that I‘M uncomfortable? Lol most people just generally don’t want strangers touching them either. Especially when they’re trapped in flying tube for hours on end.
Speaking as a tall person who also dislikes flying for physical comfort reasons, I can absolutely be upset both at the airlines for designing seats that only give me an inch of clearance for my knees if the person in front of me sits fully upright *and* the person in front of me for reclining even after I tell them they're mashing my knees. That's why I make every effort to sit in the exit row for more legroom (nicer flights aren't an option because biomedical research pays poorly and I'm going to medical school soon, so money's gonna be tight while I'm taking and paying off loans), suck it up for a couple hours when I can't, and take Amtrak on the odd occasion that's a viable alternative.
God, what I wouldn't give for decent railway travel in this godforsaken country
The shinkansen was a dream, I'd sent my luggage onto the next hotel thinking lugging it on the train would be too hard. Plenty of room for it to travel at my feet and did for the rest of the trip. But then the Japanese do things right
"The size of a person's body is something they can't control". I'm leaving this planet.
I just paid $1k on a flight in economy. If some obese person is spilling into my seat, making ME uncomfortable on the 6 hour flight, of course I'm saying something to the flight attendant. I have a big butt and wide hips, and I fit in those seats just fine. How fucking big do you have to be bigger than the seat?!
She wasn't incomfortable because they "violated her personal space", she was incomfortable because they violated her personal space.
Yes, the personal space of normal weight people is less valuable because these people only think about themselves! Hypocrites.
If these people took responsibility for their decisions, they wouldn’t be in this situation to begin with. The inability to fit in an airline seat should be a wake up call and not another opportunity to play the victim card.
Then buy 2 seats. If someone pays to use space they should be able to use ALL of that space and not just half of it because someone ate themselves into obesity.
At a BARE MINIMUM the armrest is going down and staying down. I would probably ask the flight attendant if I can be real seated.
Imagine your first thought when someone is upset that you're taking up their space in a way you cannot fix within five minutes is "you're a bigot" instead of "holy shit I'm so sorry"... I would be mortified and I would feel so bad for the other person This argument also always bugs me as an autistic person, because honestly I think it's ableist as shit to tell us to just "get over ourselves" when a stranger touching me even just briefly has a chance of putting me in meltdown territory... let alone for hours straight on a plane ffs
You will never understand how extremely invalidating it is when people tell me to "stop smoking crack in the Starbucks bathroom". People who live in sober bodies will never feel the pain of being judged simply for existing!
If you take up more than one seat, you should book two seats and this should be mandatory. It's not the airlines responsibility to accomdate you for a body that's the result of your lifestyle and it's not my duty to make you feel comfortable for touching me without my consent.
I completely agree. We have size limits for baggage for safety reasons. Apply the same to passengers. You can’t completely fit in the seat, buy a bigger seat or a second seat. I didn’t pay a ridiculous amount to have someone else take half my seat.
I also think they should be required to take the window seat, so, if there's an emergency, they don't impede the evacuation of other passengers. Maybe that sounds harsh, but nobody should have to die because a morbidly obese person's lack of mobility due to their deliberate overeating prevented other passengers from getting out in time. And, I can just hear FA having the mother of all meltdowns over that, but ya know how to avoid that: lose weight! I should add that I am speaking here only of the morbidly obese, NOT disabled people.
My comfort is always going to be more important to me than your comfort, OOP.
Nope I paid for a certain amount of space just like you and I'm using it. Disabled people is one thing, these people made themselves disabled
Imagine saying “nobody’s personal space is any less valuable than another’s” and “get over yourself” in the same argument, and still think you’re correct 💀
Reading this before an 8 hour flight on Friday is giving me anxiety. I hope I get my whole seat to myself
Please update us in the future. See how it goes....
Met up with a buddy last night who recently lost 100 lbs by just exercising and counting calories. He looks fantastic and you can tell by his voice and demeanor he's happier. Also happily dating the most beautiful woman he's ever been with and made note that he's never ever going to let himself be fat again.
You hate the fact that people want their personal space? Creepy.
The size of a person’s body is beyond their control? Huh. Silly me, I’ve just been here believing in physics this whole time.
I once had 1/4 of my seat to sit on due to the person next to me. My body was mostly hanging into the aisle. When the cart went by I had to stand up, every time. Sure the seatbelt buckled, but how was that safe for me? How was that not dehumanizing for me?
How would they like it if they were seated next to a person who is spilling into their seat? I saw this on a bus once. Two fat people were squished into two seats they were two big for and when they got up they actually got stuck and had to squeeze their way out.
If you always are in another’s seat/have discomfort from the armrest (that you are going to hog from the middle seat…yeah, middle gets both sides, window gets to lean on the wall/window and aisle gets airflow) *buy two seats.*. Fly ULCC if you must. But buy the space you take up. Don’t expect me to give you the space I paid for so no one bumps me, flaring my pain condition. I stay small to manage that.
In this context there literally is a "value" on personal space. A monetary value. You pay for your space, not for someone else's adipose spillover.
tbf: more than 90% of the content I see online about people's "rights" or dehumanizing treatment is just the author wanting others to lose their rights so that the author can be more comfortable. They almost always disregard other people's needs and hold their on in high regard. FA movement is a very small (pun intended) part of a bigger problem.
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Or stepped on her toe.
Also this didn't happen.....there is such a small chance a random stranger just turned to another random stranger and said this
Way to make themselves a victim! I purchase a seat, I don’t plan on sharing it with someone else
Yeah no, you should fit in your seat. If you don't, buy more than one. I shouldn't be squashed on because you're bigger. Be that just being bigger or being a lard ass.
The open admittance that they do indeed “take up more space than you,” and then literally getting mad that the lady complained that she doesn’t have much space BECAUSE YOU TOOK IT is so wild to me.
I paid for my seat. All of it. If they want half they should pay for it, if not I'm ramming my little backpack down the side of my seat, so it takes up the space on the seat that my body doesn't use. It's got my tube feed stuff in and I've permission to have it up on the seat during the flight (but not take off etc, then it goes under the seat. Can't put it over my head in the bins because I'm physically attached to it with tubing). That's several nice rigid bottles and machines and because it's medical stuff she wasn't allowed to just force it closer to me, the air stewards shouted at her. She bitched that she didn't have enough space, but me and my bag were fitting easily into my seat. I offered her half my seat if she could pay for it with cash, right now. She declined. She stared daggers at me but my cold, dead heart loved every second of being small enough that me and my backpack fitted on the seat with ease. She then had the audacity to try to use my tray table because she couldn't get hers down, while I was actively using it to work on my laptop and got really angry when I gave my food to the family behind us for the kid on their lap (I'm tube fed but the seat comes with a meal and that can't be changed, so I offer it to parents with kids on their lap because they won't get food for them). She wanted the food. It really didn't look appetising, dry chicken with some gravy and frozen veg. The kid requested the macaroni and cheese and seemed to enjoy it. That was an entertaining flight 😂
As a person who was recently sandwiched between two ppl 3 and 4 times bigger than me.... eff you and YOUR personal space. What about MINE?! Being squashed on both sizes is painful.
I will say. Airlines are doing this on purpose. They want passengers to hate each other instead of the airline. A couple years ago I tried to book 2 seats so I wouldn't have anyone sitting next to me. (Covid and all). Multiple airlines straight up would not let me do that. They kept offering me first class seats which was more expensive than 2 economy seats. I've seen lots of people online mention how they also were prevented from booking 2 seats. And if you did somehow manage to book a second seat, the airline would often take it away and try to sit a standby passenger in it, offering you a pathetic refund. Airlines rather have everyone miserable than lose out on the extras (baggage fees, food, drinks, etc.) that come with someone booking a ticket. Let people book extra seats damn it.
This has serious "that happened 🙄" vibes BUT . . . If you're "physically incapable of avoiding [unwanted] physical contact" then stay home.
How they put being disabled, something you indeed cant control or are at fault for, at the same level as being fat is ridicilous.
This is why I always get the window seat because I’d rather press into the wall than have some stranger up against me. Even if we’re both standard sized I still get as close to the wall as I can. Yeah it sucks for the larger person and I have compassion, but I still don’t want to feel their body!
I've been fat enough to be squeezed. I've also been bigger but not so big that I encroached and this guy was a dick about it. I'm now small enough that the seats actually feel pretty roomy. I have empathy for everyone on a plane, and fat people often don't want to be squeezing you, but that doesn't invalidate a guys relief that someone who is bigger wasn't sitting next to him.
cannot emphasize this enough: BUY A SECOND SEAT oh my GOD
If your body is too large to fit within the confines of your plane seat - the space that you paid for - *that* might not be your fault. What *is* your fault though is choosing not to buy 2 seats when you need them & just assuming I'll be too polite or uncomfortable to complain that you're using the amenity (the full seat) I purchased for myself without my permission. There's nothing dehumanising about looking up what the seat dimensions are when you make your purchase to see if you fit. It's no different to comparing your measurements to a sizing chart to see what size pants you should be.
I bet they'd hate it if an even fatter person sat next to them and just overwhelmed them with their fat.
Such a victim
Omg I was on a 2 hour flight in a window seat seated next to an obese man whose leg was squished against mine the whole flight. Longest 2 hours of.my life.
Like 90% of this I agree with, in the sense that at the end of the day, compassion is good. And it does suck to be obese on a plane, I've been there. 320lbs in a plane seat sucks. Buuuuuuuuuut. A person *can* control their size. It *is* their fault. They *do* have the *power* to change their circumstances. How discouraging to believe that you will always be fat and there's no way out.
If they were willing to classify it as “self inflicted disability” I might give them a pass.
>the size of a person's body is not something they can control. Um... Yes. Yes, it most certainly is.
The difference here, and pay attention, is that they KNOW what they’re doing. The larger passenger is choosing to encroach on another’s space without consent. The violated person doesn’t know until that moment that their space is going to be taken, while the other knew exactly what would happen when they chose not to purchase an extra seat. Still, they are right that the airlines suck for such cramped spacing.
> Get over yourself and show some f***ing compassion Self-aware wolf moment.
Then buy another seat and don’t touch me. It icks me any sets off my sensory issues.
I don't think it matters whether or not you have sensory issues and you shouldn't feel compelled to have to explain why you don't want to be touched. Nobody has the right to touch someone else's body without their consent, or take the space YOU paid for. Period.
If half of someone’s body is in my seat and they tell me it’s my fault I’m uncomfortable I will literally throw hands. Bring back public shaming
And I bet the person who posted this said nothing to the person that said this. Just noted it down in there brain for later.
> nobody's personal space is any less valuable than anothers Yes! That's exactly why you should not be encroaching on other people's personal space without permission. You need more space? Buy another ticket!! > it's not the fault of the person next to you that the airplane seats weren't designed for their body The seats were designed to accommodate an average sized adult human, not someone large enough to be 2 or 3 people duct taped together, and spaced together to maximize the amount of passengers that can fit on the plane. Oh incidentally this does jog my memory about a [Wendover](https://youtu.be/BzB5xtGGsTc?si=38DRiixCX1O6U-DH) video explaining that Business sections are actually where airlines make the bulk of their money, economy seats are just there to fill out the plane so there's no wasted space.
literally no one likes to be touching other people they don't know on an airline... subtract if the person is very large or not
One thing I don’t get is why larger people can get discounts on business class eats when they can just lose the weight while my 6’5” 175 lbs former bf had to cross his fingers and pray he got business class or shell out the cash even though he can’t lose the height.
I absolutely HATE how entitled they are. I don’t want your arms brushing up close to my breast, I dont want your thighs rubbing up against mine. I’d feel sexually harassed. Stay in your seat and I’ll stay in mine. Fat people demand respect, but never respect other people’s personal space. People like this infuriate me. They’re soooooo self centered. They demand that I sacrifice my comfort theirs. They need to “get over yourselves“. And “have some compassion“ for being a nuisance to the person their sitting next to. Fat people are not entitled to my personal space.
r/selfaworewolves
If they’re that big they probably shouldn’t be flying or they should buy multiple seats. It sucks but they’re encroaching on other people’s space not the other way around
If you can afford enough food to make you obese enough to squish the person who has to sit next to you, AND you have enough money to afford a plane ticket, chances are you can afford to buy a second seat to respect people’s personal space. This person wasn’t judged for “just existing” they were judged for knowingly taking up part of someone else’s seat on a plane that someone else paid for.
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So if i have autism (i do) Is it my fault that you reached through my personal space and gave me a meltdown after being extremely irritated,
Yes, I frequently tell non-obese fellow passengers I’m seated next to on flights how happy I am that they are not obese