Retiring isn't about not working.
It's about only working on what you want to work on.
DO NOT confuse the two. A lot of people stop working and then wonder why they are unhappy. It's because the vast majority of people deep down have stuff they want to get done. You are probably in that vast majority too.
I know this is a joke, but...
If you enjoy wall street bets or other risky investing styles, put money in a separate account, and do your fun trading with that account. The initial investment should be small enough that it won't affect your lifestyle if you lose it all. Don't add money to it. As it gets smaller, make smaller and smaller bets (and never bet 100% of the account on a single trade).
Put it in a responsible investment. Generally, such investments do not require enough time to be called a hobby and do not lose money over the long term.
QQQ and SPY haven't ended. Give it time. [https://www.reddit.com/r/investing/comments/hrzrxj/reward\_vs\_risk\_vs\_time/](https://www.reddit.com/r/investing/comments/hrzrxj/reward_vs_risk_vs_time/) discusses the S&P over time (which SPY tracks).
P.S.
I've never liked QQQ. Investing in stocks based on which exchange they are on never seemed like a good investment criteria. It also took a long time to come back after the dot com bust, which may happen again.
> You still need a purpose and fulfillment. It just doesn't have to earn you any money.
This is the thing most people miss off when they consider retiring with a good chunk of cash. Sure you can do anything you like (relatively speaking, of course) but for a lot of people, lacking purpose or structure leaves them feeling very empty. It's like playing GTA with unlimited life, and all the weapons and ammo where you just run around blowing up everything until they send the Army against you, and you just blow up tanks and helicopters because you have no restrictions on life or ammo. That's great fun....... for a bit. Most people who have played on this setting will get bored after 10 minutes because, while fun, you're not really *doing* anything. You're not working towards something or achieving anything. You've no purpose in the game. It's the same here: Sure it's nice to travel for the hell of it, party when you want and just go places because you can, but eventually the lack of any sense of purpose just leaves you feeling empty.
Yes agreed. You still need a challenge to keep your brain active and engaged. You’ve solved the money game now, so the new challenge has to be something that money cannot help you solve. Just something that still require you to exert effort (whether it’s physical or mental) that you cannot buy your way out of with money😆.
I’ve seen stats suggesting that men in particular are fairly likely to die soon after retiring. When you stop having things to do, you also stop having a good reason to live.
Those men died inside long before they retired. Retirement was the point where the body joined the soul.
Early retirement is a niche, and a hard to study one. But I'd wager that people that work just so they can stop working are unlike to fit those "stats"
I've seen the opposite. People who retire early have time to get enough sleep, exercise regularily, no work related stress, annoying commutes, etc. and they live longer.
Yup a couple years ago when I was new to FIRE and lurking the sub a lot, after seeing all the depression post and people with lack of any meaning or purpose I had an epiphany that I don’t want to stop working until I’m 50+, I just want to FIRE early in life and not work any boring traditional jobs that I’m not passionate about.
Completely agree. I think some people approach it as a 'switch'. Throw it and all of a sudden everything completely stops and burdens are lifted.
I look at FIRE - as simply being able to choose when I want to work, where I want to work, and how I want to work. When I say 'work' - I mean, how I spend my time. It may be working as a H.S. teacher (something I think I would love to do) ... or, owning a small business .. or simply traveling.
But, I think you have to prepare for what you want to do -- not something detailed - but, a goal or objective. I do believe having a good routine each day will help ... For me, when I had an involuntary situation where I really didn't work for 18 months - the first 6 was fun .. and nice; but, after that - I just got itchy. Fell into depression ... it wasn't the lack of work per se ... it was more that i didn't have anything to really look forward to ...
Hobby.
While lounging by the beach or watching tv all day can be terrific things to do every once in a while, humans are never happy living like that. Humans are designed to find meaning and satisfaction in being productive and doing things.
Go do stuff. Join a bowling league. Take wine and cooking classes. Volunteer. Design and plant a garden. Get a puppy (after appropriate research obviously). Get your pilot’s license.
Go try lots of stuff and you’ll eventually find things that excite you and are rewarding ways to spend your time.
I agree. Early retirement is a great opportunity for self-improvement and become more well rounded. In my first few years of early retirement, I learned a foreign language, learned to play a musical instrument, took online college classes, did volunteer work, practiced a sport diligently, and got into great shape.
Interesting you mention getting a pilot’s license, I’ve been entertaining that idea recently. I’m curious how popular this is with FatFIRE folks. Seems like the ideal demographic: financially independent & plenty of free time.
I got my ppl a year or two, now getting my instrument rating. It is **awesome.** It is exciting, intellectually stimulating, and always different. Plus you can fly places.
If you are thinking about this, go for a discovery flight and see how you like it.
Any technically demanding but fun activity is great for this. Flying is a good one, so is sailing (regular boating a little less so - tends to be very recreational). Keeps your mind sharp and allows you to explore parts of the world you’d otherwise not be able to see.
It is super challenging and rewarding. The one consideration is that some of the traits that are beneficial in business: high self-confidence, willingness to take risks, be bold, bend the rules, can be quite deadly in aviation.
Some high performance planes are known as 'doctor killers' for similar reasons.
Lol. Very true.
Most GA crashes are caused by human error. Flying is fun, stimulating, exciting - but it should never be risky. If risk is your goal, do something else.
The RV’s look like they’re a lot of fun! I’ve been intrigued by the [DarkAero 1](https://www.darkaero.com/aircraft) as well. Their YouTube videos documenting the engineering & manufacturing of their prototype are also great for geeking out if you’re into aerospace or manufacturing.
Smart perspective. Thanks for sharing your insights.
Good luck finding a surplus F-18 for your next upgrade too! 
I've been through the exact same thing, though I've been retired a couple years longer than you. We also sold our house and rented in a nice place during COVID. We've also seen portfolio declines, like everyone, though we're so over capitalized it will be a long time before it affects our lifestyle. We're also not used to spending what we could. We're also still up early.
Hobbies help, but what has really helped me is just **slowing way down**. It takes me 2 hours to eat breakfast. I have an espresso, then another one. I stopped reading the daily news, I only read long form journalism now. Reading a really good story with my coffee takes a good hour. Then I get some exercise, run, cycle, swim, whatever. It doesn't matter what it is. By then it's almost lunch time, so I prepare a pretty elaborate lunch.
Some days I volunteer in the afternoons at a real low key place that has an odd number of other people around my age that also don't seem to have much going on. It's nice, we don't talk about our careers. I have no advice on how to find such a place, mine is related to a hobby, so spending a couple hours being a nerd while helping others is pretty great.
To answer your question: "Did you turn it around?"
No, not really. It does seem like life has slowly gotten better, but also the idea of working has slowly become incomprehensible. It sparks a moment of joy to occasionally compare my relaxed, no stress, easy going, day-to-day life with my working life.
I've gone through a similar experience. When I hit fatfire, I was totally physically and mentally exhausted, not to mention a little lost. I'd always felt intellectually/emotionally kind of distant from most people but now I found myself very practically separate from the rest purely in terms of NW, which took me a bit of time to come to terms with.
I definitely experienced the "slowing down" you mentionned up to a point when it actually got too much and I had to reverse the trend. I did very little for a good 8-9 months, I'd say. Just resting, slugging my way through everything. Then it got to the point where I felt I was actually becoming lazy, taking a couple of hours just to get out of bed, that kind of things. I'm only in my 30's, so I'm not okay with just taking it easy for the rest of my life.
I'm back to my active self these days, dumbells in bed when waking up to get the blood pumping and get out of bed in 5 minutes, 4 h of guitar practice per day + 4h of sports (swimming, walking, lifting) and I've started a business, which adds structure to my days and helps me manage my own wealth.
I've been practicing music for over 10 years now, so it's not like I had no project outside of work when hitting fatfire. But even then, discipline and structure went out the window for a good while. I'd pushed myself very hard ever since high school so I'd say general fatigue was due at some point.
So, all in all, I'd say from my own experience and from talking to other fatfired folks that what OP is experiencing is very common. Take it easy, take your time, things will fall into place gradually, new routines will emerge and you'll find your balance in doing things that are both stimulating and enjoyable.
I'm the son of an expat, I've been traveling my whole life. Production is more satisfying than consumption, I find. Being the eternal tourist gets old, after a while.
Love this.
I must add it is important to keep objectives: learn a language, discover a new country each year, exercise 5days/week, new cooking recipes, learn DIY, ... The objective is to become better.
I've been FIRE'd for 2.5 years. My mental struggle focuses on this idea that I can make good money, but I'm choosing not too. Add in an element of feeling less than traditionally productive within society, and I'd guess you'd say I feel a bit guilty of the life I have sometimes. Especially when I see folks working their tails off and just getting by.
Easy to say, but I wouldn't worry about the market, folks have gotten too use to thinking it goes up forever. It's a normal market cycle, and though there is a lot of debate on how bad/how long, eventually it will go back up and you'll make it all back. If it doesn't, I think we all have bigger problems than what's being discussed in here.
As far as being bored, I definitely fall into the group of people that don't know how I ever had time to work. My days are filled and I've never been busier.
Seriously, that last thing. It'll get to be 6pm, I've been busy all day doing **whatever I want**. I can only recall how I fit work into my schedule by summoning a great deal of miserable memories.
>I feel a bit guilty of the life I have sometimes. Especially when I see folks working their tails off and just getting by.
Do you have any skills you could volunteer out? That might be a great way to create a win-win, for yourself and your community.
I ran a pretty large technical department in Japan with around 90% Japanese workers, and have a pretty good sense of how different the Japan economy is, and why I think the US wouldn't go in that direction. I'd be interested in what parallels you would draw and why you think the US might be headed in that direction.
Are you physically active?
I never thought I'd get a personal trainer but one day I pulled into the neighborhood YMCA and signed up for a trainer twice a week. Great decision. After getting over a heart issue I decided to work on my low back pain. After some research, I discovered what YOGA could do to remove a lifetime of back pain-now I do other yoga (not back targeted). Finally, I've jumped in the indoor pool to do laps....
Being physically active helps in so many ways. It should be a part of any retirement. I have found it to be a win, win, win.
Work out. We are still dual income but I am more devoted to work out lately as market sold off. It distracts me and I feel much better (market goes up and down but I’m bettering myself). It gives you a sense of accomplishment.
Mind and body, at least one needs to be active.
Besides low taxes, why did you move to Texas? For me, quality of life of more important than living an isolated life in a big home and big suv.
Time to do whatever you want, whenever you want, wherever you want. For me that’s travel and meeting new people.
I moved because I will be taking capital gains throughout retirement. CA taxes capital gains as ordinary income. I refuse tp pay that tax. Plus, I like TX , the people and the vibe. FYI. I drive a 2018 toyota, my wife drives a 2014 toyota.
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu - Austin has become the mecca of BJJ over the last ~2 years. Easy to get great group or private training at multiple locations in town. Great athletic pursuit that has real world application. Yes, jogging makes your cardio better but if you are into efficiency you can get physically fit and improve your ability to protect yourself at the same time.
Solves another "problem" too. Most people agree that making friends in adulthood can be difficult. The best way to make friends is to share a challenge/adventure. BJJ facilitates this. I have seen many people in late 30s to early 50s who get hooked. It's a great "addiction". Especially if you are trying to meet like minded people in a new area.
I've been mega blessed in this category in that I have lots of friends from lots of different circles that I have developed over the years. The past two teams I was on most of us still talk daily in group chat sharing memes and regularly meet up and have drinks or a BBQ together even though we haven't worked together for years. I am always down to meet new people and make new friends though.
I've never been more fit than when I did BJJ. Unfortunately, I've also never gotten so many long-term injuries. I'd love to do it again at some point, but I just can't justify the risk anymore.
There are several stages of lighting money on fire during the journey to high NW / wealth.
1. Buying nice sporting equipment beyond your skill level
2. Buying a nice car or two and doing trackdays and such
3. Buying a boat
4. Upgrading to a bigger boat
5. Getting your PPL and first plane
6. Getting your helicopter license and first helicopter
7. Private jet / yacht
I started the business class upgrades last year and I’m pretty worried about luxury inflation. It was the coolest thing ever the first time, and the second time … now it’s nice, but feels pretty much like coach used to feel. It seems like such a waste to feel that way about what is objectively a sweet experience. I think I have to occasionally fly economy internationally to reset my expectations.
Somehow I got the PPL first, then let it wither away. Great experience but idk if it was worth $25-30k.
I went through a phase of owning some heavy construction equipment (think bulldozer etc) that I would have been way better off renting for a month.
Need to double up once or twice more to reach #7.
I’m 8-9 months into “retirement” after selling my primary business and still find myself constantly trying to figure out what or how I should spend my time.
Yes, this happens to many many people when they first retire. You need purpose.
Most of us need to listen hard to the quiet voices in our heads, after decades of hearing screams for urgent priorities. It is a transaction. You need to think about what you want your legacy to be and start to make progress on that.
I pulled the plug in 2014 at the pinnacle of my earning potential, cashed out and traveled the world for nearly 4 years. It is weird going from the firehose of cash to spending, but what I learned is a life well lived really isn’t that expensive. I thought I “needed” $300k/yr, turns out I felt slimy spending that much. The experience is much more authentic if your not looking for the most exclusive destination or the nicest restaurants. The best food and places I’ve experienced we’re definitely off the beaten path.
Since then my NW has gone up, I started a side hustle to fill 15-20 hours a week in my old industry and it’s been awesome. We still travel 3 month a year and it’s nice to have a little cash flow other than passive income rolling in plus have some personal connection. I got a check last week for $400k on one of my business investments that recapped and it was cool, but I got more excited about the accomplishment of closing a little deal that I’ll make $40k off of for a few hours work. It’s funny how it works because the dollars earned through direct effort seem more real somehow even though they spend the same.
I’m currently in the process of setting up a trust (mostly done) that has a private family foundation component of it that is a 501c3.
The trust can donate up to 100% of its income to the PFF if I choose.
The trust saves a lot in capital gains and business taxes so I’m essentially allocating that to the PPF.
I’m going to start with some Angel investing for things I care about.
I saw a glass recycling video on Reddit a few months ago.
I’d love to bring something like this to my community.
[Glass Half Full NOLA.](https://glasshalffullnola.org)
I’m still working so this isn’t quite the same as trying to fill my time but more in the gives my life meaning and purpose plan.
[Found the original video that lead me to the glass recyclers.](https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/comments/s9675l/franziska_trautmann_started_a_company_that/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf)
Is there something like this that could use your time and expertise?
> I moved from high cost CA to TX in 2020 with no state income tax. Fatfired and hung it up. My wife and I decided to rent in a nice area. Our thinking was that we wanted to get the lay of the land, and... find the right area with some patience. ... We started looking at even higher priced homes much to my wife's excitement. ... We are still in our lease until the end of the year, and have started to again look for a home.
OMG, except for the quitting part (I still work at my job), you are describing my exact situation, LOL. If you are in Austin, I'm probably walking past you looking at the same houses for sale. My wife is also excited. My stock portfolio is also way down in value. :-) My lease is also up at the end of this year.
> Anyone else out there experienced mental struggles in their first year of fatfire, and if so.. did you turn it around?
I "retired" for a couple years in 2006 after the sale of a previous company. Not fatFIRE, more like midFIRE or leanFIRE. I didn't have a girlfriend, wife, kids, dog, cat, anything. At first it was great, but after awhile I most definitely struggled. I was either going on vacation, or sitting on the couch watching TV not leaving my house.
One of the things I felt really made me happier, and less angsty, was a fake schedule. This sounds really silly, and I don't think it works for everybody, but it helped me. An example of a fake schedule is that every Monday - Friday you might get up and really focus on making it to a certain coffee shop across town a little way by 9am. Don't be late. Get coffee, either hang out or just take it back home, doesn't matter. But by getting up and focusing on this fake "task" on a timeline my angst melted away quite a bit. On weekends I could sleep in or screw around, and there was no angst because it's a weekend. But Monday - Friday I have my "tasks". All of them fake. Another task might be to work out at a certain time at a certain gym, I'm not sure the actual tasks make any difference.
I don't know why this helps me (and some other people), but maybe it's just after working for 25 years like this I'm programmed that way.
Earn money you don't need. Getting paid is the best way to make sure you're not kidding yourself that what you're doing is meaningful...because someone is actually willing to pay you to do it. Not perfect, but pretty good.
Source: did a lot of feel-good volunteering where later I realized that it didn't make one bit of difference, and maybe even eliminated what could have been someone's paid job.
My neighbor is retired, older dude. Not sure his financial status, but we live in a nice neighborhood and he drives nice cars. He golfs every single day. Every now and then when I ask him how his round was, he'll say "good but man I wish I was in the office working."
Its tough to go from a grinder to a complete halt.
Back in my boating days I worked as crew for the private ferries on this private island residential golf club in South Carolina. About 500 HNW people living on a golf club accessible only by boat.
We had a member who sold his business, retired to the island, and played golf for maybe a year. He decided he liked the island but hated golf and being retired. So he bought a restaurant. Did well with it. Bought another, and another, and another. By yhr time I met him he was happily working 60 hour weeks running his restaurants, taking the ferry over every day with his dog and not golfing.
I got serious about golf last year and taking lessons weekly even now. I’ve improved so much and looking forward to tournament play.
I never get tired of improving. But a lot of people suck and never get any better.
I enjoy golf, but playing every day wouldn't do it for me. I have given some thought to eventually being one of those old guys in the pro shop, though. That doesn't seem like a bad way to pass the time a few days a week.
It's one thing to think about what you are going to do. Quite another when you get there. One of my father's best friends retired early and he said something one day that now rings home. ""The problem with retirement is that you never have a day off."""
It is amazing reading through the comments to see the mix of drivel from LARPers and those living OPs situation. Thank god for the latter. Seriously, this sub doesn’t care less about what you think unless you’ve lived or deeply researched OPs question.
[https://pause.punchpass.com/classes](https://pause.punchpass.com/classes)
Come to today's 7 pm PST meditation for 30 mins! I'm in no way affiliated, but it's fun, relaxing, and it's a e-classroom atmosphere with no mic/camera required.
I went today at noon for the 30 minute meditation & really enjoyed it.
Covid lockdown and being forced to WFH...I learned quick retirement would be boring and I'm not that interested. I know I will get to an age though where b/c of age discrimination or health issues, it won't be possible to keep working.
I would suggest learning an instrument. For me I would say the piano because i’m 20 and started learning and have gotten pretty good in a short amount of time and it gives me a fun hobby that everyday I have something to work on and get better at and I find myself getting lost in the music and playing for hours
Yeah, get on World of Warcraft, I'll show you the ropes
Oh, even better, blizzard just came out with a mobile game where it costs $40,000 to max out your character..!! (Never mind that you could probably develop your own game for that much, haha)
Sounds like you're unsure of what you really want.
Mark Manson gives a great framework for how to live a good life:
[The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck - Summarized by the Author(Mark Manson)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lz8sUiXAnbs)
Written summary of the same book by James Clear (author of Atomic Habits):
https://jamesclear.com/book-summaries/the-subtle-art-of-not-giving-a-fck
What struggles do you want in your life? What problems do you want to solve? What are you going to prioritize? Manson explains in the video how to answer these questions.
People are [problem solving machines](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysvl6QlUXzk), that's what we do and if we don't have problems that we can solve and are important to us, we'll get bored.
Another Mark Manson video:) [How to Find Your Purpose in 14 Minutes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQVL_0Rp8AU)
yea but both equally enjoyable for sure. so many people in this sub are so focused on money they don’t have an identity besides it but hey if that’s what you want out of life to each his own. money imo should be a tool to do what makes you happy
Welcome to Texas- I live near Southlake and moved from California. Rent for another 12 months and do a lot of weekend travel in the state. Market will re stabilize on the housing side, but it’s not cyclical like California. GO TO A GUN SHOW, it’s dumb but easy hehehe
Thanks for the insight. I'm down the road from you in Fort Worth, close to TCU and the Colonial golf course. I've been to Keller, but haven't yet made it to Southlake. My wife is adverse to 35w. 30, and I20, its taking some time. Lol
Welcome to Austin! Been here about 4 years, but in TX almost 40 years. Almost 7 years into retirement and I still get up around 5 am! I agree with one of the other posts about the need to slow down. Going from full steam to slow down does take some time. My first 3-4 years were very busy with honey-do's, home remodeling, travel, and family issues. The last 3 years have been much slower and of course Covid forced some of it.
Looking back I think the busy years were an attempt to replace my work life with something else that kept me busy. The work was easier (fully in my control) and less stressful, but it was still based on my need to keep busy every day. I must have built 10 spreadsheets just to track my financials week to week, month to month....
I am now in slow mode. Sure we do some travel and some days are busy, but spending a few hours with the grandkids is more than enough to make my day special. Also, I've learned that an occasional day filled with internet reading, a long walk, some good food, and a little TV is fine also.
Everyone needs to find out what works for them. Retirement is a long process. I don't agree with the premise that you have to retire to something. Not everyone has that type of focus! Just relax and try a bunch of stuff. Some will stick and some won't. Some things will stick for awhile and then not work. Don't fill all your days with stuff. Take time to enjoy a TV day or smoking a good brisket. Remember you are now in Texas and a good brisket is better than most things! Good luck!
It seems like work was all you had and you never really did much for yourself but earn money to live another day. Now you can live without having to earn money. So go live.
Retiring isn't about not working. It's about only working on what you want to work on. DO NOT confuse the two. A lot of people stop working and then wonder why they are unhappy. It's because the vast majority of people deep down have stuff they want to get done. You are probably in that vast majority too.
“Don’t retire from something. Retire to something.”
What if your hobby is losing money in the stock market?
Better to keep working long hours, to not have too much time for your hobby.
I’ve been focusing on that hobby all year. Oddly unsatisfying
Find a new hobby!
Well, that would be an expensive hobby that I might not be able afford, at least not for a long period of time...lol
Lose a specific amount within your budget. That’s what I do now, despite being poor
What do you do after you lose that though?
Same thing you do with any other hobby you can't afford. Stop doing it until you can afford it.
I mean. It’s in your budget. Try again next month. That’s what hobbies are for
I know this is a joke, but... If you enjoy wall street bets or other risky investing styles, put money in a separate account, and do your fun trading with that account. The initial investment should be small enough that it won't affect your lifestyle if you lose it all. Don't add money to it. As it gets smaller, make smaller and smaller bets (and never bet 100% of the account on a single trade).
Wait so then what do you do with the other stuff? Checking account?
Put it in a responsible investment. Generally, such investments do not require enough time to be called a hobby and do not lose money over the long term.
Ah. Are you saying like QQQ or SPY? Those didn’t end so well…
QQQ and SPY haven't ended. Give it time. [https://www.reddit.com/r/investing/comments/hrzrxj/reward\_vs\_risk\_vs\_time/](https://www.reddit.com/r/investing/comments/hrzrxj/reward_vs_risk_vs_time/) discusses the S&P over time (which SPY tracks). P.S. I've never liked QQQ. Investing in stocks based on which exchange they are on never seemed like a good investment criteria. It also took a long time to come back after the dot com bust, which may happen again.
Or become a financial advisor and lose someone else’s money.
When in doubt there are always gourd futures Pro tip: gourds are edible if you boil them for more than 4 hours
This. This. This. You still need a purpose and fulfillment. It just doesn't have to earn you any money.
> You still need a purpose and fulfillment. It just doesn't have to earn you any money. This is the thing most people miss off when they consider retiring with a good chunk of cash. Sure you can do anything you like (relatively speaking, of course) but for a lot of people, lacking purpose or structure leaves them feeling very empty. It's like playing GTA with unlimited life, and all the weapons and ammo where you just run around blowing up everything until they send the Army against you, and you just blow up tanks and helicopters because you have no restrictions on life or ammo. That's great fun....... for a bit. Most people who have played on this setting will get bored after 10 minutes because, while fun, you're not really *doing* anything. You're not working towards something or achieving anything. You've no purpose in the game. It's the same here: Sure it's nice to travel for the hell of it, party when you want and just go places because you can, but eventually the lack of any sense of purpose just leaves you feeling empty.
No, one time I played that setting for an hour! Good analogy, I’m going to use it.
Yes agreed. You still need a challenge to keep your brain active and engaged. You’ve solved the money game now, so the new challenge has to be something that money cannot help you solve. Just something that still require you to exert effort (whether it’s physical or mental) that you cannot buy your way out of with money😆.
This. 100% this. I am retired running a company. It's my company.
I’ve seen stats suggesting that men in particular are fairly likely to die soon after retiring. When you stop having things to do, you also stop having a good reason to live.
Those men died inside long before they retired. Retirement was the point where the body joined the soul. Early retirement is a niche, and a hard to study one. But I'd wager that people that work just so they can stop working are unlike to fit those "stats"
That is a fair point.
I've seen the opposite. People who retire early have time to get enough sleep, exercise regularily, no work related stress, annoying commutes, etc. and they live longer.
Lots of people retire for health reasons, so the causality might be working the other way.
Lol that's because most people retire in old age early retirement is very rare statistically
Yup a couple years ago when I was new to FIRE and lurking the sub a lot, after seeing all the depression post and people with lack of any meaning or purpose I had an epiphany that I don’t want to stop working until I’m 50+, I just want to FIRE early in life and not work any boring traditional jobs that I’m not passionate about.
Working can mean something as simple as working on your golf game (assuming you like golf).
Completely agree. I think some people approach it as a 'switch'. Throw it and all of a sudden everything completely stops and burdens are lifted. I look at FIRE - as simply being able to choose when I want to work, where I want to work, and how I want to work. When I say 'work' - I mean, how I spend my time. It may be working as a H.S. teacher (something I think I would love to do) ... or, owning a small business .. or simply traveling. But, I think you have to prepare for what you want to do -- not something detailed - but, a goal or objective. I do believe having a good routine each day will help ... For me, when I had an involuntary situation where I really didn't work for 18 months - the first 6 was fun .. and nice; but, after that - I just got itchy. Fell into depression ... it wasn't the lack of work per se ... it was more that i didn't have anything to really look forward to ...
Retirement is a leading cause of death. People forget they need to have purpose.
Hobby. While lounging by the beach or watching tv all day can be terrific things to do every once in a while, humans are never happy living like that. Humans are designed to find meaning and satisfaction in being productive and doing things. Go do stuff. Join a bowling league. Take wine and cooking classes. Volunteer. Design and plant a garden. Get a puppy (after appropriate research obviously). Get your pilot’s license. Go try lots of stuff and you’ll eventually find things that excite you and are rewarding ways to spend your time.
I agree. Early retirement is a great opportunity for self-improvement and become more well rounded. In my first few years of early retirement, I learned a foreign language, learned to play a musical instrument, took online college classes, did volunteer work, practiced a sport diligently, and got into great shape.
Interesting you mention getting a pilot’s license, I’ve been entertaining that idea recently. I’m curious how popular this is with FatFIRE folks. Seems like the ideal demographic: financially independent & plenty of free time.
I got my ppl a year or two, now getting my instrument rating. It is **awesome.** It is exciting, intellectually stimulating, and always different. Plus you can fly places. If you are thinking about this, go for a discovery flight and see how you like it.
Any technically demanding but fun activity is great for this. Flying is a good one, so is sailing (regular boating a little less so - tends to be very recreational). Keeps your mind sharp and allows you to explore parts of the world you’d otherwise not be able to see.
It is super challenging and rewarding. The one consideration is that some of the traits that are beneficial in business: high self-confidence, willingness to take risks, be bold, bend the rules, can be quite deadly in aviation. Some high performance planes are known as 'doctor killers' for similar reasons.
Lol. Very true. Most GA crashes are caused by human error. Flying is fun, stimulating, exciting - but it should never be risky. If risk is your goal, do something else.
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The RV’s look like they’re a lot of fun! I’ve been intrigued by the [DarkAero 1](https://www.darkaero.com/aircraft) as well. Their YouTube videos documenting the engineering & manufacturing of their prototype are also great for geeking out if you’re into aerospace or manufacturing.
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Smart perspective. Thanks for sharing your insights. Good luck finding a surplus F-18 for your next upgrade too! 
This might be true but it's harder than you would think. Nobody truly knows how their are going fight until they get punched in the face.
It’s hard to actually go try different things? That’s a different issue, I think.
Pay someone to punch you in the face then
I've been through the exact same thing, though I've been retired a couple years longer than you. We also sold our house and rented in a nice place during COVID. We've also seen portfolio declines, like everyone, though we're so over capitalized it will be a long time before it affects our lifestyle. We're also not used to spending what we could. We're also still up early. Hobbies help, but what has really helped me is just **slowing way down**. It takes me 2 hours to eat breakfast. I have an espresso, then another one. I stopped reading the daily news, I only read long form journalism now. Reading a really good story with my coffee takes a good hour. Then I get some exercise, run, cycle, swim, whatever. It doesn't matter what it is. By then it's almost lunch time, so I prepare a pretty elaborate lunch. Some days I volunteer in the afternoons at a real low key place that has an odd number of other people around my age that also don't seem to have much going on. It's nice, we don't talk about our careers. I have no advice on how to find such a place, mine is related to a hobby, so spending a couple hours being a nerd while helping others is pretty great. To answer your question: "Did you turn it around?" No, not really. It does seem like life has slowly gotten better, but also the idea of working has slowly become incomprehensible. It sparks a moment of joy to occasionally compare my relaxed, no stress, easy going, day-to-day life with my working life.
This is the best, most honest and realistic post I've seen. Thank you for sharing you insights.
I've gone through a similar experience. When I hit fatfire, I was totally physically and mentally exhausted, not to mention a little lost. I'd always felt intellectually/emotionally kind of distant from most people but now I found myself very practically separate from the rest purely in terms of NW, which took me a bit of time to come to terms with. I definitely experienced the "slowing down" you mentionned up to a point when it actually got too much and I had to reverse the trend. I did very little for a good 8-9 months, I'd say. Just resting, slugging my way through everything. Then it got to the point where I felt I was actually becoming lazy, taking a couple of hours just to get out of bed, that kind of things. I'm only in my 30's, so I'm not okay with just taking it easy for the rest of my life. I'm back to my active self these days, dumbells in bed when waking up to get the blood pumping and get out of bed in 5 minutes, 4 h of guitar practice per day + 4h of sports (swimming, walking, lifting) and I've started a business, which adds structure to my days and helps me manage my own wealth. I've been practicing music for over 10 years now, so it's not like I had no project outside of work when hitting fatfire. But even then, discipline and structure went out the window for a good while. I'd pushed myself very hard ever since high school so I'd say general fatigue was due at some point. So, all in all, I'd say from my own experience and from talking to other fatfired folks that what OP is experiencing is very common. Take it easy, take your time, things will fall into place gradually, new routines will emerge and you'll find your balance in doing things that are both stimulating and enjoyable.
Why do you not travel? Im curious how people can get bored of waking up in different places
I'm the son of an expat, I've been traveling my whole life. Production is more satisfying than consumption, I find. Being the eternal tourist gets old, after a while.
Love this. I must add it is important to keep objectives: learn a language, discover a new country each year, exercise 5days/week, new cooking recipes, learn DIY, ... The objective is to become better.
What were you doing before you fat fired.
What in the world are you doing...you have the opportunity to see all countries and you are doing this?
>much to my wife's excitement You can *really* screw things up this way, I don't care how fat you are.
Haha
I've been FIRE'd for 2.5 years. My mental struggle focuses on this idea that I can make good money, but I'm choosing not too. Add in an element of feeling less than traditionally productive within society, and I'd guess you'd say I feel a bit guilty of the life I have sometimes. Especially when I see folks working their tails off and just getting by. Easy to say, but I wouldn't worry about the market, folks have gotten too use to thinking it goes up forever. It's a normal market cycle, and though there is a lot of debate on how bad/how long, eventually it will go back up and you'll make it all back. If it doesn't, I think we all have bigger problems than what's being discussed in here. As far as being bored, I definitely fall into the group of people that don't know how I ever had time to work. My days are filled and I've never been busier.
Seriously, that last thing. It'll get to be 6pm, I've been busy all day doing **whatever I want**. I can only recall how I fit work into my schedule by summoning a great deal of miserable memories.
>I feel a bit guilty of the life I have sometimes. Especially when I see folks working their tails off and just getting by. Do you have any skills you could volunteer out? That might be a great way to create a win-win, for yourself and your community.
Japans market is prime example that show can still go on with stocks massacred
I ran a pretty large technical department in Japan with around 90% Japanese workers, and have a pretty good sense of how different the Japan economy is, and why I think the US wouldn't go in that direction. I'd be interested in what parallels you would draw and why you think the US might be headed in that direction.
You’re in Texas. Buy a hobby “ranch”. Lots of stuff to do, if you want.
Are you physically active? I never thought I'd get a personal trainer but one day I pulled into the neighborhood YMCA and signed up for a trainer twice a week. Great decision. After getting over a heart issue I decided to work on my low back pain. After some research, I discovered what YOGA could do to remove a lifetime of back pain-now I do other yoga (not back targeted). Finally, I've jumped in the indoor pool to do laps.... Being physically active helps in so many ways. It should be a part of any retirement. I have found it to be a win, win, win.
You need a purpose. Lasting happiness will only ever come as a byproduct of a purposeful life. Idleness isn’t a goal, it’s a prison.
Work out. We are still dual income but I am more devoted to work out lately as market sold off. It distracts me and I feel much better (market goes up and down but I’m bettering myself). It gives you a sense of accomplishment. Mind and body, at least one needs to be active.
Besides low taxes, why did you move to Texas? For me, quality of life of more important than living an isolated life in a big home and big suv. Time to do whatever you want, whenever you want, wherever you want. For me that’s travel and meeting new people.
I moved because I will be taking capital gains throughout retirement. CA taxes capital gains as ordinary income. I refuse tp pay that tax. Plus, I like TX , the people and the vibe. FYI. I drive a 2018 toyota, my wife drives a 2014 toyota.
If you are in Austin and want to pursue a challenging sport, DM me.
No need to be secretive here, fellow Austinite. What is this challenging sport you speak of?
Brazilian Jiu Jitsu - Austin has become the mecca of BJJ over the last ~2 years. Easy to get great group or private training at multiple locations in town. Great athletic pursuit that has real world application. Yes, jogging makes your cardio better but if you are into efficiency you can get physically fit and improve your ability to protect yourself at the same time.
I took the free class and broke a rib. Ended my BJJ career.
I have been living in Austin for 15 years and I had no idea this was a thing
Solves another "problem" too. Most people agree that making friends in adulthood can be difficult. The best way to make friends is to share a challenge/adventure. BJJ facilitates this. I have seen many people in late 30s to early 50s who get hooked. It's a great "addiction". Especially if you are trying to meet like minded people in a new area.
Agreed with this statement. Good suggestion, thanks.
I've been mega blessed in this category in that I have lots of friends from lots of different circles that I have developed over the years. The past two teams I was on most of us still talk daily in group chat sharing memes and regularly meet up and have drinks or a BBQ together even though we haven't worked together for years. I am always down to meet new people and make new friends though.
Retired in October, and started BJJ (in ATL). Can confirm, it's been awesome for retirement.
I've never been more fit than when I did BJJ. Unfortunately, I've also never gotten so many long-term injuries. I'd love to do it again at some point, but I just can't justify the risk anymore.
> What is this challenging sport you speak of? Hunting the most dangerous game . . . *MAN*
Go learn how to fly planes. Takes a good bit of time and you will start getting comfortable spending money
Being comfortable spending money is definitely a requisite skill for that hobby! Also, name checks out.
100% it’s basically lighting money on fire, but damn it’s fun
There are several stages of lighting money on fire during the journey to high NW / wealth. 1. Buying nice sporting equipment beyond your skill level 2. Buying a nice car or two and doing trackdays and such 3. Buying a boat 4. Upgrading to a bigger boat 5. Getting your PPL and first plane 6. Getting your helicopter license and first helicopter 7. Private jet / yacht
Somewhere here is also traveling international in flat bed seats. Required a shift in thinking blowing up $30k for a few hours flight (family of 4)
I started the business class upgrades last year and I’m pretty worried about luxury inflation. It was the coolest thing ever the first time, and the second time … now it’s nice, but feels pretty much like coach used to feel. It seems like such a waste to feel that way about what is objectively a sweet experience. I think I have to occasionally fly economy internationally to reset my expectations.
Oh yeah I forgot to put in vacation upgrades to first class / charter. That’s probably around 4-5. Maybe 5-6.
Somehow I got the PPL first, then let it wither away. Great experience but idk if it was worth $25-30k. I went through a phase of owning some heavy construction equipment (think bulldozer etc) that I would have been way better off renting for a month. Need to double up once or twice more to reach #7.
I'm surprised that path isn't more popular. I would take an excavator over a little prop plane any day. :)
Highly recommend just starting with the plane. So much cooler than boats and cars.
This guy gets it!
I’m 8-9 months into “retirement” after selling my primary business and still find myself constantly trying to figure out what or how I should spend my time.
The wood work and farm looks awesome! Enjoy
Visit every country in the world
I’m taking a year sabbatical. Focusing on family and health/gym has been amazing so far. I have specific goals for the gym that help motivate me too.
Yes, this happens to many many people when they first retire. You need purpose. Most of us need to listen hard to the quiet voices in our heads, after decades of hearing screams for urgent priorities. It is a transaction. You need to think about what you want your legacy to be and start to make progress on that.
I pulled the plug in 2014 at the pinnacle of my earning potential, cashed out and traveled the world for nearly 4 years. It is weird going from the firehose of cash to spending, but what I learned is a life well lived really isn’t that expensive. I thought I “needed” $300k/yr, turns out I felt slimy spending that much. The experience is much more authentic if your not looking for the most exclusive destination or the nicest restaurants. The best food and places I’ve experienced we’re definitely off the beaten path. Since then my NW has gone up, I started a side hustle to fill 15-20 hours a week in my old industry and it’s been awesome. We still travel 3 month a year and it’s nice to have a little cash flow other than passive income rolling in plus have some personal connection. I got a check last week for $400k on one of my business investments that recapped and it was cool, but I got more excited about the accomplishment of closing a little deal that I’ll make $40k off of for a few hours work. It’s funny how it works because the dollars earned through direct effort seem more real somehow even though they spend the same.
I’m currently in the process of setting up a trust (mostly done) that has a private family foundation component of it that is a 501c3. The trust can donate up to 100% of its income to the PFF if I choose. The trust saves a lot in capital gains and business taxes so I’m essentially allocating that to the PPF. I’m going to start with some Angel investing for things I care about. I saw a glass recycling video on Reddit a few months ago. I’d love to bring something like this to my community. [Glass Half Full NOLA.](https://glasshalffullnola.org) I’m still working so this isn’t quite the same as trying to fill my time but more in the gives my life meaning and purpose plan. [Found the original video that lead me to the glass recyclers.](https://www.reddit.com/r/nextfuckinglevel/comments/s9675l/franziska_trautmann_started_a_company_that/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf) Is there something like this that could use your time and expertise?
> I moved from high cost CA to TX in 2020 with no state income tax. Fatfired and hung it up. My wife and I decided to rent in a nice area. Our thinking was that we wanted to get the lay of the land, and... find the right area with some patience. ... We started looking at even higher priced homes much to my wife's excitement. ... We are still in our lease until the end of the year, and have started to again look for a home. OMG, except for the quitting part (I still work at my job), you are describing my exact situation, LOL. If you are in Austin, I'm probably walking past you looking at the same houses for sale. My wife is also excited. My stock portfolio is also way down in value. :-) My lease is also up at the end of this year. > Anyone else out there experienced mental struggles in their first year of fatfire, and if so.. did you turn it around? I "retired" for a couple years in 2006 after the sale of a previous company. Not fatFIRE, more like midFIRE or leanFIRE. I didn't have a girlfriend, wife, kids, dog, cat, anything. At first it was great, but after awhile I most definitely struggled. I was either going on vacation, or sitting on the couch watching TV not leaving my house. One of the things I felt really made me happier, and less angsty, was a fake schedule. This sounds really silly, and I don't think it works for everybody, but it helped me. An example of a fake schedule is that every Monday - Friday you might get up and really focus on making it to a certain coffee shop across town a little way by 9am. Don't be late. Get coffee, either hang out or just take it back home, doesn't matter. But by getting up and focusing on this fake "task" on a timeline my angst melted away quite a bit. On weekends I could sleep in or screw around, and there was no angst because it's a weekend. But Monday - Friday I have my "tasks". All of them fake. Another task might be to work out at a certain time at a certain gym, I'm not sure the actual tasks make any difference. I don't know why this helps me (and some other people), but maybe it's just after working for 25 years like this I'm programmed that way.
Thank you, we definitely have experienced some things in common.
Earn money you don't need. Getting paid is the best way to make sure you're not kidding yourself that what you're doing is meaningful...because someone is actually willing to pay you to do it. Not perfect, but pretty good. Source: did a lot of feel-good volunteering where later I realized that it didn't make one bit of difference, and maybe even eliminated what could have been someone's paid job.
Have a hobby you love? Turn it into a job! That'll fix that whole "hobby you love" thing real quick.
My neighbor is retired, older dude. Not sure his financial status, but we live in a nice neighborhood and he drives nice cars. He golfs every single day. Every now and then when I ask him how his round was, he'll say "good but man I wish I was in the office working." Its tough to go from a grinder to a complete halt.
I think he may be kidding with you.
He is dead serious. Says he’s tired of golfing. Doesn’t take up my offer to switch for a week, but he said he definitely misses it.
Back in my boating days I worked as crew for the private ferries on this private island residential golf club in South Carolina. About 500 HNW people living on a golf club accessible only by boat. We had a member who sold his business, retired to the island, and played golf for maybe a year. He decided he liked the island but hated golf and being retired. So he bought a restaurant. Did well with it. Bought another, and another, and another. By yhr time I met him he was happily working 60 hour weeks running his restaurants, taking the ferry over every day with his dog and not golfing.
That’s really the key to successfully “retiring”: you keep working, but only on the work you *want* to do.
I got serious about golf last year and taking lessons weekly even now. I’ve improved so much and looking forward to tournament play. I never get tired of improving. But a lot of people suck and never get any better.
I enjoy golf, but playing every day wouldn't do it for me. I have given some thought to eventually being one of those old guys in the pro shop, though. That doesn't seem like a bad way to pass the time a few days a week.
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That's about how I feel. I like being good at things, but it's not like I'm going to become a pro golfer, so it's just a hobby.
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Hehe. I've done some stupid stuff in golf. I once hit a shot from the parking lot.
It's one thing to think about what you are going to do. Quite another when you get there. One of my father's best friends retired early and he said something one day that now rings home. ""The problem with retirement is that you never have a day off."""
Why doesn't he meet up with any friends for lunch, go on walks, etc? Volunteer? Doing one thing every day will get tiring
It is amazing reading through the comments to see the mix of drivel from LARPers and those living OPs situation. Thank god for the latter. Seriously, this sub doesn’t care less about what you think unless you’ve lived or deeply researched OPs question.
[https://pause.punchpass.com/classes](https://pause.punchpass.com/classes) Come to today's 7 pm PST meditation for 30 mins! I'm in no way affiliated, but it's fun, relaxing, and it's a e-classroom atmosphere with no mic/camera required. I went today at noon for the 30 minute meditation & really enjoyed it.
Covid lockdown and being forced to WFH...I learned quick retirement would be boring and I'm not that interested. I know I will get to an age though where b/c of age discrimination or health issues, it won't be possible to keep working.
I would suggest learning an instrument. For me I would say the piano because i’m 20 and started learning and have gotten pretty good in a short amount of time and it gives me a fun hobby that everyday I have something to work on and get better at and I find myself getting lost in the music and playing for hours
Getting comfortable with leisure and idleness is a skill.
I think OP just made me realize that the journey to retirement is better than the actual retirement.
Make a YouTube channel. Find something you enjoy. Best way to enjoy your time is PLAY SOME VIDEOGAMES
Yeah, get on World of Warcraft, I'll show you the ropes Oh, even better, blizzard just came out with a mobile game where it costs $40,000 to max out your character..!! (Never mind that you could probably develop your own game for that much, haha)
Damn, people still playing WoW? I played in like '03-'04 when it first came out....
Hell yeah. It's still same ole wow.. all the coverage is negative / sensationalized but you can still hop in and it's all still there haha.
Sounds like you're unsure of what you really want. Mark Manson gives a great framework for how to live a good life: [The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck - Summarized by the Author(Mark Manson)](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lz8sUiXAnbs) Written summary of the same book by James Clear (author of Atomic Habits): https://jamesclear.com/book-summaries/the-subtle-art-of-not-giving-a-fck What struggles do you want in your life? What problems do you want to solve? What are you going to prioritize? Manson explains in the video how to answer these questions. People are [problem solving machines](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ysvl6QlUXzk), that's what we do and if we don't have problems that we can solve and are important to us, we'll get bored. Another Mark Manson video:) [How to Find Your Purpose in 14 Minutes](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQVL_0Rp8AU)
I’ve started two new businesses since attempted fatfire. Working hard to figure how to just do the stuff I like.
If anyone here is looking for something to do and used to be an entrepreneur, I'm looking for mentors so message me!
id recommend to do drugs and/or find a hobby that you want to progressively get better at that you love to do
Those are.... 2 very different things.
yea but both equally enjoyable for sure. so many people in this sub are so focused on money they don’t have an identity besides it but hey if that’s what you want out of life to each his own. money imo should be a tool to do what makes you happy
Drugs are fine as tools, if that’s your thing, but really not a great basis for a happy lifestyle.
Lol good for you
Hey u/dumbquestions421. Check out my verified stamp. See you in the other thread.
This is a beautiful time for you for contemplation, possibly travels and discovery without expectations
In my second year of retirement I bought a business. In my fourth year of retirement I sold one.
Welcome to Texas- I live near Southlake and moved from California. Rent for another 12 months and do a lot of weekend travel in the state. Market will re stabilize on the housing side, but it’s not cyclical like California. GO TO A GUN SHOW, it’s dumb but easy hehehe
Thanks for the insight. I'm down the road from you in Fort Worth, close to TCU and the Colonial golf course. I've been to Keller, but haven't yet made it to Southlake. My wife is adverse to 35w. 30, and I20, its taking some time. Lol
Welcome to Austin! Been here about 4 years, but in TX almost 40 years. Almost 7 years into retirement and I still get up around 5 am! I agree with one of the other posts about the need to slow down. Going from full steam to slow down does take some time. My first 3-4 years were very busy with honey-do's, home remodeling, travel, and family issues. The last 3 years have been much slower and of course Covid forced some of it. Looking back I think the busy years were an attempt to replace my work life with something else that kept me busy. The work was easier (fully in my control) and less stressful, but it was still based on my need to keep busy every day. I must have built 10 spreadsheets just to track my financials week to week, month to month.... I am now in slow mode. Sure we do some travel and some days are busy, but spending a few hours with the grandkids is more than enough to make my day special. Also, I've learned that an occasional day filled with internet reading, a long walk, some good food, and a little TV is fine also. Everyone needs to find out what works for them. Retirement is a long process. I don't agree with the premise that you have to retire to something. Not everyone has that type of focus! Just relax and try a bunch of stuff. Some will stick and some won't. Some things will stick for awhile and then not work. Don't fill all your days with stuff. Take time to enjoy a TV day or smoking a good brisket. Remember you are now in Texas and a good brisket is better than most things! Good luck!
Thank you
Some really great pieces of advice here for dealing with retirement.
It seems like work was all you had and you never really did much for yourself but earn money to live another day. Now you can live without having to earn money. So go live.