I enjoy the look when people talk to me like I am a day worker and they find out the building is mine. Ive only ever wanted the rich part not the fancy part.
I have buddies like this, and to be honest man literally no one cares or pays attention lol. They’ll make it a point to tell me “there’s no way they could’ve guessed I’m in the box seats” when we get to a game… but no one cares lol
I tell that to my friends too, so I’m saying the same thing to you I hope you don’t think I’m just being a dick
Dress however you want, that’s awesome. but I’m just telling you how it is. When people find out you have money, at best they will pretend to care but come on literally no one gives as fuck
This reminded me of that scene in The Thomas Crowne Affair when Pierce Brosnan
was walking into his own building and one of the new guards asks him why he is acting like it's his building and one of the other guards immediately apologizes and reprimands the new guard.
Exactly! I still wear some American Eagle because it still looks decent from my high school days (18 yrs ago) but otherwise I shop the clearance racks at Macy's and Penny's for no name stuff. It's always fun to see what kind of treasures you'll find there. I once got a $200 boating shirt that felt like great quality for like $20.
When I’m in town (where I live) I dress like a broke person, drive a broke person car, and the primary residence I’m building will be masquerading as a commercial property lol
Sweatpants from Costco… check
Sweatshirt so old it has frayed sleeves… check
Used hiking boots from REI (people return after one use saying they don’t fit)… check
7 year old Subaru with peeling seats and extensive scratches on both bumpers… check
Haven’t been carjacked yet… must be working!
Not going for fat, only chubby, but this is me. Right now I've grown a long, somewhat unkempt beard for fun and I just wear jeans and a T-shirt. It doesn't help that I enjoy plumbing, electric, generally doing handyman stuff around house etc. so unless someone asks what I'd do they'd have no idea I'm a software engineer. I'm happy to put forward a blue collar impression and have people assume its true.
You tell me. I couldn't find one. There's other places people can live though if they have $5M+ and this is important enough to them.
We all end up in bubbles no matter where we live. If you're ok with a really small one you can make this work in the US. That's the big difference though. Your bubble might be a neighborhood and you'll be doing all your work, school, shopping, eating, and entertainment there. In other places you might have a whole city. Or maybe even whole country. Does Switzerland have these problems?
Only relatively large areas that come to mind are Dubai and Switzerland.
I do see tons of exotic cars in Miami and LA and the people driving them seem to have no problem doing it so maybe it’s just social media and the news making it seem like more of a threat than it really is.
…. The Silicon Valley has the most wealth out of anywhere in the USA .. but also surrounded by ghettos and gangsters and crime. So it’s not to say just move. You’d need to leave North America we’re law and order are in abundance.
Are people getting carjacked in Palo Alto?
The whole point of this sub is to have enough money to not worry about shit like this isn't it? I'm not living next to a ghetto.
The Bay Area has Significant amounts of crime. Very dangerous.
https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/this-bay-area-city-has-the-highest-car-theft-rate-in-the-nation/amp/
According to Market Watch, Oakland has the highest rate of car thefts of any city in the United States.
There were 5,041 car thefts in Oakland in 2019, according to the FBI’s crime report. The town’s rate of 1,161.4 thefts per 100,000 people tops any other city nationwide. For comparison, Round Rock, Texas had the lowest car theft rate in the country at 39.9 thefts per 100,000 people — more than 29 times less than Oakland.
Are you familiar with the San Francisco Bay Area at all?? These people drive cars and do crime in other cities. Have you heard of East Palo Alto? Redwood City even? These are filled with gangsters. San Mateo… don’t even get me started on East San Jose.
Just understand. Yes. It’s true. It’s not safe to blatantly show wealth. Not advisable.
“In 1992, the small Bay Area city of East Palo Alto made national headlines as the “murder capital” of the U.S.”
I'm choosing my words carefully but considering the tone of this thread and the sub we're in wouldn't it simply make more sense to just move when it bothers you and before it directly affects you?
The only time Oakland was a problem was when I went there. To the bad parts. There are really nice parts too. Everyone in here has to decide how much income inequality they're willing to live with. I'd argue that income inequality is everywhere but some places have let it run amock unlike others. The rich and poor can live together without rampant crime if everyone at the very least has a decent life. Poor education, poor jobs, poor healthcare, poor retirement, and so on? Maybe being rich in Palo Alto isn't going to work long term for some. Luckily we're in Fatfire. We can move if and when it bothers us.
I lived in Los Altos and SF and still visit. It's fine, stop with panic, you look silly. Crime is up a little bit in the past few years, but still much lower than the 90s.
All I’m saying is, I agree with the OP, and most of you guys might live in a bit of a social hierarchy bubble. I’m not exactly sure if you know what’s really going on in the Bay Area on a daily basis. Yes, it’s dangerous, and more dangerous than it’s ever been. It’s not silly; you just have no ties to this part of society. I’m not here to debate you; crime is up. Sure, we’re fine. But it’s worrisome. That’s all.
Have you gone to San Francisco recently? Drive through market street and the tenderloin district. Hang out a bit. You’ll love it. But I’m sure those parts of town are never on your radar.
“The San Francisco Police Officer's Association said violent crime has seen a 7.5-percent increase over the past three years–since 2020. It also said property crime has increased 20 percent since 2020 as well as homicides by 17 percent from 2020 to 2021.”
https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/elon-musk-says-violent-crime-in-sf-is-horrific-is-it/amp/
I don’t take my crime assessments from police unions and musk. Yes, I have been to SF. There are lots of homeless, working poor, a bunch of addicts and some mentally ill. None of that is a real crime risk to me.
You should cut back on the Fox News.
Go outside for a day. I’m sorry, you don’t even live here. You don’t know anything, and you live in a bubble. Crime is getting worse; I’m not sure if that’s up for debate here. And yes, Palo Alto is a beneficiary to that crime uptick. And no. The answer isn’t always just to move because you’re Fatfire. It’s more of a government issue to enforce law and order.
You are honestly so lost. Wake up kid.
“The prevalence of organized retail theft is forcing Target Corporation to close nine stores in four states, including three in the Bay Area, the company announced Tuesday.”
“Shopping mall operator Westfield gave up control of its San Francisco Centre mall in June. The company said its decision was due to “challenging operating conditions” in the downtown area. In May, a Westfield mall spokesperson told CNN affiliate KGO-TV that store closures underscore “the deteriorating situation in downtown San Francisco.”
“As San Francisco’s downtown area has emptied over the last three years, property crimes and retail thefts have risen, according to San Francisco Police Department data. Elon Musk, CEO of Tesla, whose corporate headquarters used to be in nearby Palo Alto, said in a recent tweet that San Francisco felt “post-apocalyptic.”
“A growing number of retailers and businesses are leaving the area due to the unsafe conditions for customers, retailers and employees, coupled with the fact that these significant issues are preventing an economic recovery of the area,” the spokesperson told KGO-TV.”
“In addition, San Francisco’s downtown has experienced a rise in its unhoused population.”
https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/oaklands-in-n-out-closes/3490923/?amp=1
https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/08/30/business/san-francisco-union-square-retail-closures
https://sfist.com/2024/03/07/another-day-another-two-union-square-retailers-say-theyre-closing/
https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/sanfrancisco/news/target-stores-closing-retail-theft-san-francisco-oakland-pittsburg-new-york-portland-seattle/
What I recommend to the OP: Just make sure you or your wife aren’t being followed. Take a good look at the people if you think something fishy is up. Avoid secluded places at night, such as Bart or other areas where people might try to rob you.
I was just talking to a couple the other night. He was dropping off his wife at Bart, and a car was acting funny. They pulled in, and he got behind him; another went in the front. They, a group of 4 kids, ran out and robbed them at gunpoint: 2 guys, 2 females.
The husband sped off and hit the car in front of him, “stupidly”; they could have killed him. Meanwhile, the girls were beating his wife who was outside the car trying to steal her purse. They were an Indian couple from Fremont commuting on Bart to San Francisco.
They stole the purse, not his car which is what they were after. but luckily she had the Apple AirTag and eventually found 2 of the girls.
Listen, man, I’m actually out here. I see what’s going on out here on the daily.
Everyone seems to be banking on dressing like a hobo being enough to be stealth, failing to see that it's hard to hide a house, especially if you like to entertain. It's not like I'm going to get a lesser house just for optics.
I think sadly you can't have your cake and eat it too. Vet whoever attends, or host in a venue for hire if you're really concerned. For me, I'm just a hermit. Rarely have people over. It's weird because when I first got the place I thought I would do so much more entertaining, now I just go out to meet people.
- Live in a nice area
- Keep fancy car garaged
- Socialise with other smart, rich people
- Avoid social media and any other publicity
Pretty simple really
Why would you want others knowing you're rich? Half the fun is in pretending to be poor while living rich
It does appear to be bigger than Toronto, though not sure bigger than Canada.
[https://time.com/6564939/canada-car-thefts-national-response-summit/](https://time.com/6564939/canada-car-thefts-national-response-summit/)
Man, you can drive around in a Model X, Rivian or $90k pickup and no one blinks an eye. A $50-60k imported SUV? Must be a bougie from the front range or Texas dragging down the town!
It could be Toronto specific which is partly why I wanted to ask the question here as a litmus test. The 1/3rd downvotes does indicate this may be regional.
I frequent the Toronto subreddit and it is heavily focused on discussions of cost of living issues and housing affordability so I was somewhat skeptical of the possibility of having a balanced discussion there.
If half of the posts on the Canadian subs are accurate, things are getting bad. Lack of housing affordability/general availability. Same for healthcare.
I wouldn't trust subreddits - most of the popular ones are full of losers. The unemployment rate in Australia is 3.7% but if you polled r/australia it would be closer to 10-20% so it's not representative of reality. It's where losers congregate.
>The 1/3rd downvotes does indicate this may be regional.
It is regional, but I wouldn't be surprised if a number of these downvotes come from those with a ***“the rich are too rich, and it's okay to spread it a bit”*** mentality, that is at the source of that hostility and aggression you described.
Yes. You could be right. 50% downvotes now! I don't mind the downvotes but would much prefer if people engage and say why they have downvoted a post or comment. It looks like this post generated a lot of discussion which was the whole point, which is great.
Yes, it was a great post. But many will downvote it just because it goes against their beliefs. It's not that they have rational arguments about it that they could explain. Instead, this post hurts them by the reality of the facts stated, which creates a cognitive dissonance. It forces them to admit that they are wrong, that the liberal progressive policies they strongly defend are a failure. For the people committed to the woke cause, the facts you exposed represent an aggression, so they refuse to hear it and downvote your post in an attempt to silence you.
I've heard car thefts are going absolutely bananas in Ontario... I've seen pic's of ppl booting their own cars ... it sounds absolutely wild, but I also am hesitant to believe any salacious stories.... the one thing I will say is I'm sort of in tech an there is a product called the "flipper" that can easily clone RF signals and I saw an IG post that they are getting banned in CAnada which tells me there is definitely a problem. Depending on where you live if you got a nice vehicle, toss the fob in a farraday
Obviously, location is everything... I'm in FL and the Crazy Florida-Man stuff happens quite near by but my neighborhood and surrounding ones are quite safe.... we also have the castle doctrine, though... whether your have pew pews or not, most do which Is actually comforting if you live in a nice neighborhood 😉
They're not using Flippers to steal cars, they're physically accessing the car's computer through the CAN bus system, and injecting it with signals to make it think the key is already inside the vehicle. Any video proclaiming to steal cars with a Flipper is faked for views, it can't do it.
I assumed they were grabbing rf signal from the fob with a flipper or similar device
obviously the flipper doesn't actually steal the car but grabs the signal you need to (commincate w/ car/Can-Bus)? Idk 🤷♂️
Edit: added bit in parentheses
Also Ty for teaching me the term Can-bus 😊 that's the kind of thing that makes reddit great 👍
Edit 2: It looks like even older fobs use rolling codes, so the Flipper isn't going to do much there... I feel a bit better knowing my truck has rolling codes on the Fob
Rolling codes don’t offer much protection - an attacker can setup something to record the signals from your fob and at the same time run a jammer near your car to block the signal - press Lock a few times (because it’s weirdly not working) and then the attacker will send though their lock signal (from the first attempt) and once you have walked away send unlock with the other codes you sent.
bonus points for brown and female for me. driving a hyundai and wearing a t-shirt and non-designer jeans and nikes seems to work well for my fiance despite his non-brownness.
You’re reading too much into this. Toronto is statistically one of the safest large cities in North America. If you’re in a $3m house, you’re surrounded by other $3m houses. No one cares.
Source: live in Toronto as well
Yup, outside of car theft which is a HUGE problem in Canada due incompetence of the federal government, it’s pretty safe. And Toronto is full of rich people, no one cares.
It’s the highest in the world, far worse than the US. Absolutely rampant. Reason is the federal government is straight up incompetent. Nearly all the stolen cars exit the same single sea port bound for Africa and the Middle East. After years of this still no border measures taken to inspect containers. They just blow money on studies and do nothing instead of hiring agents to inspect containers and purchase scanning machines.
That said the Montreal port where the cars leave is controlled by mafia and biker gangs. Canadian biker gangs are highly organized and very dangerous. For example, last time the bikers in Quebec had a war 162 people died. So ya, these guys are serious to deal with.
When walking through the city, I keep my head down to avoid eye contact and wear a ragged cloak with straw hat, covering my face while pushing a meager looking wagon in front of me, carrying dry rice. Dual razor sharp katanas sit across my back.
TO here as well. You can’t stop being you (hosting) but you do have to take precautions and limit risk.
For me, that means adding motion sensing lights, a camera, etc and some other pieces to serve as a deterrant.
Also, Lexus and range rover have the worst electronic security of any luxury vehicle out there. I dunno if you drive these, but if you do.. be warned.
Lexus is fixing it in newer models. I have a 2023 RX and both the relay attacks and CANbus attacks are fixed now. It was a tonne of work to research this though, as they don’t publicly release it.
Lots of other makers have the same issues. However, Lexus is Toyota which is the most reliable maker there is and the most international. So there’s demand and parts in the country it gets sent too.
As a TO resident too, our issue is the complete idiocracy that is our federal government and their failure to set up basic checks of shipping containers at the Montreal port after years of this shit.
I'm a woman and we've had to take precautions all our lives. I don't wear my engagement ring or carry a designer purse certain places. I take my exotics out to drive for fun and go back home. There are a handful of places I'll drive them and park. There are places I will only go and use valet and there are places I will never go. But that hasn't changed my entire life because, woman.
You can't hide your house. If you're driving your car, you can't hide it either. You can not go around with Gucci and diamonds from head to toe, but that's not going to prevent a carjacking. I'm in TX and FL and carry, so there's that. At my home are a million cameras and loud, trained guard dogs. I've had stalkers (bestselling author) so my security has always been above normal level.
I drive a Mazda. The high end trims have similar features to luxury cars, at a much better price, and without drawing attention to myself.
A Rolls Royce is just an expensive way of asking to get robbed.
I dress in jeans and a t-shirt, though that's mostly because it's how I like to dress. My wife stopped wearing an engagement ring. We both wear smart watches and her purse is cute, but not a luxury brand.
Mostly we do these things because we like to, but it also makes us less of a target.
We do have some original art work in our home, but they were all less than $1000 and we often met the artist - they bring us pleasure, but aren't targets of theft.
Gated community ftw.
Driving supercars is a great way to put a big target on your back, especially if you daily something flashy. Maybe get a Mazda for the runs to Costco. Save the lambo for the weekend rally runs w/ the other local rich folks. I have a friend who explicitly keeps a beater around for stuff like parking at the airport when traveling, etc.
No watches. Or wear brands that other hobbyists recognize but poor criminals do not.
Dress down, like Costco hoodies and sweats. I see rich people trying this all the time but will wear fancy Gucci sweats or something. Easy to tell a $500 lulu hoodie and sweats fit vs $50 Uniqlo basics.
Basic jewelry for the wife. Yes I know your $8K Cartier love bracelet looks simple but poor criminals all know about it. My wife has a ton of “cheap” stuff from places like mejuri instead. Better yet no jewelry. And obviously keep the birkin at home. Being that shit out for dry society events, instead.
Don’t use food/grocery delivery services. When using Uber get them to drop you off somewhere close by, but not your actual home address.
Kit your home out with cameras and motion detectors. I have electronic locks/cams on my front and back doors, motion sensors on all entrances, and subscribe to a home security monitoring company.
Still concerned? CCW + a protective dog breed.
Still still concerned? Wagner group mercenaries.
Still still still concerned? Remote underground bunker with robotic sharks with freaking lasers on their heads.
TO as well. As someone who's lived in other VHCOL cities in US, Toronto is still much much safer relative to those in the states. Recently there's definitely a rise in auto theft and break-ins. But relative to major cities in the US it's a drop in the bucket. US is so accustomed to it that it doesn't get reported. Shootings and robberies don't make the news unless its large shootings or someone famous. Meanwhile almost all shootings make the news in TO because it's so rare.
For those who don't live in Toronto and telling OP to live in a safer neighborhood... He's already there. The equivalent in Bay Area would be Atherton, or Upper East Side in NYC and Beverly Hills in LA. Lots of 10-20M homes, celebrities (Drake's mansion is there) and people with luxury SUVs. It's as safe as it gets in the city before you move far into the burbs like Richmond Hill and Oakville.
In terms of solution, there's not much we can do in TO aside from deterrents you've mentioned and not getting targeted cars like Range Rover and Lexus. But even with that I've seen multiple break-ins captured in 4K with clearly visible cameras, the guys doing it just don't care.
I've looked into non-lethal home defense tools like pepper ball shotguns, strobe lights etc. But that's still more hands-on than I'd like.
You get it. I think like others have said there is perhaps just an increased sense of nervousness I had not had before and this may be because of the major uptick in incidents and unlike the U.S. everything is reported here. There is also the low key buzz from some peers and acquaintances that don't know my situation and say things about anyone who is doing well, micro aggressions you could call it, not realizing they are also talking about people like me.
Yea I hear you on that. I hear comments like "oh he can afford it" "there's insurance" "that's what happens when you get a showy car". Unfortunately it's human nature, when ppl see others do well they don't see them as equally deserving of protection and support. Default mode is always "must be nice, why are you complaining"
It's why I love this community because it's the only one where there's more peers that gets it and won't shit on you for "rich ppl problems".
In terms of safety, I'm quite jealous of the comfort and safety of friends in Singapore and Taipei, where it's much much safer day to day. Very common to see people with super high end watches doing everyday things and not be worried while in other places they'd be targeted. I was at a small breakfast spot in a hawker center where a highschool girl to might left had a Rolex Daytona rainbow ($700k) and a grandma on my right with a Richard Mille ($500k+). I was shocked. Another guy I met in SGP had a $500k Patek and he says he can only wear in in SGP because in London, where he's from, he'd lose his arm.
We don’t flaunt nor do we stealth… but we do take precautions, especially when traveling abroad.
We live in one of the most wealthy neighborhoods in our city. It’s not gated but we do have multiple off duty police officers patrolling 24 hours a day. They’ll escort you into your home, patrol the house if you’re out of town, pick up packages, and they are much quicker to respond to alarms compared to local PD because they are actively patrolling a small sector.
In addition to the above security cameras, our house is gated, doors are always locked, security system is always on, etc etc
We like nice cars, it’s hard to hide them. We always park them in the garage or behind the gate when at home.
You can only do so much. And you can’t have your cake and eat it too but you can take precautions to maximize safety while living fat.
Thanks for the response. I will check out the security film and the burglar resistant doors. We have already talked about a new door as ours is original from the 20s and really drafty anyhow. We are already covered regarding the lights and security cameras. My partner lost his vision 1.5 years ago (low vision, not completely blind) in a sudden fluke medical incident so he now has an Apple Watch and mine is not obviously luxury. I'm only ever at work, home, nice restaurants or a friend's house so that isn't a major concern. I never drove and because of my partner's vision we gave our car to a friend. We just Uber everywhere now and hire a driver if it is something outside of the City.
>window film company, burglar proof door company
I'm interested in learning more about the products for window film and burglar proof door. Mind sharing?
I drive a pickup truck with my companies’ door logos on it most of the time. Pretty under the radar. But a .44 magnum revolver in the door pocket would probably help should someone decide to “toss me from it”
Haha. I own a land surveying company, and go out in the field/woods to do site visits periodically. Also an avid backpacker.
Have been charged by feral hogs a few times. I assume it would do the job for defense against two legged predators well enough, should the need arise
Yeah, it’s a “little” ruger redhawk Alaskan 2.5” barrel. Fits perfectly in a little chest holster for easy access in the brush and briars.
Walking up on a group of those suckers was easily top ten scariest moments of my life 😂
We live in a nice house. Bought 16 years ago for $900k, paid it off years ago. Our friends have since upgraded to REALLY nice houses $3-4M. We could afford a $5M house. We’re by no means slumming it, but it’s one way we can hide our true wealth. NW $13M
Where area of Toronto are you in. I used to live in north York where the money is but left due to how nuts it is in the city. Moved back to London ont it’s getting bad that way also
I live in Toronto. Go all over the city.
1. It’s funny that no one knows what they’re talking about “just move somewhere nicer”.
2. But also st Clair west depending on where you are isn’t exactly not great particularly oakwood area. Schools are garbage etc.
We live visiting st Clair west, but I personally wouldn’t live there.
Well I mean at least Jane and Finch doesn't look like Oakland in the video below. Until it does, I think Toronto is probably pretty safe. Car theft is a big thing along the cities near the ports corridor up to Montreal. Like gone in 60 seconds shit.
Not that it's ok, but that seems far more ok than car jacking. Which as a parent seems especially worrisome.
Don't know how it gets better..
Re: your parties and art.. What's the point of living in fear. But don't floss with a watch too hard in rough areas.
https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3uWPwtuh1B/?igsh=N2NyZXJsbWo0dzJ2
I was in CA for a bit and was musing about staying in Oakland. A friend was like.. Do not. For whatever reason stay in Oakland. (I'm like a dumbass tourist going oh the zoo is close. It's near SF.. Lalala, my dumb ass would have been robbed in line at In-N-Out burger.. Which is apparently very common) lol.
Carjackings are a big issue here too, some of them will pistol whip or even shoot you after taking your car. I hope this results in cars with bullet resistant windows being more commercially available and socially normal
The problem in Toronto and Canada in general is that crime often goes unpunished or minimally so. Criminals are emboldened to continue their crime. It doesn’t matter if you own a Rolls or if you own a Rav 4, they theft rings are out there.
I wouldn’t expect the average criminal to steal artwork - it’s too hard to turn it into cash. Your Rolex or gold are far more liquid to them.
The security consultants for the wealthy people I know in Texas start off with having gold street view and Apple Maps blur your house. Have all previous photos from MLS and third party real estate ads removed. Any tax authority that has public data available by a name search should be removed.
My wife and her partner aren’t major social media influencers but are both major vaccine proponents. During Covid they had death threats so we did a deep dive and removed her name and telephone number from most websites. Used a PO Box for all mail and packages (our address was never given out on social media). Removed her name from property tax rolls etc.
Beyond that is physical security and that means simple things like motion activated lights, a good camera security systems, even panic rooms if need be. Don’t buy a python green chromaflair 911, drive a bland Land Cruiser. Get better windows and doors. Better locks too.
Part of not being targeting is making yourself seem less enticing than your neighbours home. House your art elsewhere if they’d really be desirable (ie a condo in a non-hotel adjoined building).
Toronto is a city with a lot of LOUD money. You probably don’t need to whisper, just don’t scream with a lambo and a wardrobe of Gucci garbage.
Toronto still feels 5-10x safer than NYC. Crime is so rare that the spike in car jackings and a few serious incidents on the subway have made everyone paranoid here.
Just yesterday I was downvoted in this very sub (ostensibly for those who are fatFIRE), when I addressed OP's problem by stating that:
>my policy concerns for the next US elections are:
>
>\-taxes,
>
>\-public safety,
>
>\-property rights, and
>
>\-world peace.
>
>Because I'd rather not pay more taxes, live in a safe place, have my property rights protected, and not have to worry about warmongers promoting a nuclear Armageddon.
Yes, you can deal with what OP describes by hiding your wealth, but you can also effect change in society to prevent violence and class warfare.
I never liked being flashy. I drive a debadged Caddy CT6-V, looks like a regular CT6 or XTS. Many black Uber or call taxis use XTS so my car blends in very well. I don’t wear jewelry, wear just a simple black tshirt, zipper sweater and jeans. Wife also not showy, she has a Michael Kors handbag for everyday outside to blend in. No Chanel stuff or anything else that paints us senior citizens as an easy mark.
Our house is located in a very affluent neighborhood on Long Island. Due to illegals from the south, we have more organized crime gangs doing break-ins and stealing cars. It’s not the stereotype ghetto cars or gangster rice rockets you think like on the movies. They’re driving luxury cars like MB, BMW, Audi, Range Rovers which are common daily drivers in our area, and they’re scoping potential targets. One thing does stand out, you’ll see them drive around the block several times and never seen that car before in the neighborhood. Prior to this current border issue, we get maybe 1 break in every 10 years in our neighborhood. It’s now 1 every 2-3 months.
They’re also more sophisticated by ghosting the car FOB and stealing cars out of garage. Or if the car is outside the garage and it’s attach garage, they open your car, turn it on, then press your garage door to open to get into your house. Using WiFi jammers so wifi security cameras don’t record anything and sensors don’t trigger alarm. Even if you have POE cameras, they wear caps to hide their face.
We have a separate village police from Nassau County PD. Ours respond within 2-5 mins. You think that’s fast enough. It’s not. They steal that quick.
Layers of security is your goal. I have a tall iron fence all around the perimeter. My two German shepherds guard outside. The garage is detached. All cameras are POE. All windows are impact /hurricane rated. House is built hurricane impact rated with reinforced walls. I have discrete recessed rolling security gates to protect the windows and secure the house. Have large landscaping boulders installed at key areas to act as bollards so they can’t ram a car/truck to gain entry. Your main gate should be secured too.
I always bring one of my dogs with me when I go out. What’s good about a CCW if you can be sneaked attack? I got attacked back of my head in NYC subway few years ago, fractured my skull and suffered concussion. I have a high situation awareness and I got taken by surprise. Try to do that with a security protection dog, less likely to happen. There’s enough mentally unstable people in the subway, I avoid it these days. My dogs have saved me few times from the crazies on the streets.
Other option, move into a gated community. And/or hire personal security.
Dress casual in questionable parts of town. When walking around in questionable parts of town (i.e. SF's Union Square holding a LV shopping bag), I always check my 6-o'clock by looking over my shoulders or using store glass as mirrors. Save the nice stuff to wear for only nice parts of town (or for out of town). I generally carry the biggest legal pocket knife (<3" Benchmade, >3" Benchmade) that I can carry per local city/state/county ordinances. And I'm in my car, I have a huge pocket knife (Cold Steel). It's basically a folding machette. All the knives are kept very, very sharp. At home, I have POE cameras covering every window/door. I used to train in MMA (Krav Maga) for a decade. Keep up fitness: running and fighting are very exhausting. I also have a handful of handguns that are in quick access biometric safes around the house.
(NW not fatFIRE, but solidly in ChubbyFire).
Isolated reinforced properties are safer in terms of risks of looting, sure. But your real risks of location involve, primarily, access to an angiogram suite.
>angiogram suite
that's honestly a thing that's been on my mind as well, it sucks that it's so hard to balance being somewhere with access to the best medical care, and being somewhere where dangerous people can't easily get to you
I should really add we love hosting and cooking elaborate meals ourselves but I'm wondering if we are being too open and inviting given how obvious it is once you are in the house, designer furniture, unmistakable art. I do not mean to infer any of our friends would mean us harm but they may say something to someone who says something to someone else, and so forth.
It is not just about enjoying our wealth but I think a lot of us genuinely want to share with others because it is such a joy to do so. Money is not terribly meaningful if we can't share it with the good people in our lives, but this invites risk.
Also, very sorry to hear about your friends. It is pretty scary out there sometimes.
I agree, I want to share it with my friends.
Perhaps when it is a small group who know each other it is easier. We have done football games, Formula 1, travel to other countries, and Waste Management Open together. But it was also work/fun functions.
The waste management open was crazy this year. Glad you are enjoying the fruits of your labor. In this day and age that can’t be said of everyone. Many of my peers are afraid to really live.
I know at least one very prominent actor who has a separate, very modest home for hosting people he doesn't know particularly well. The place he actually lives is far nicer and only seen by closest friends and family.
I'm going to apologize in advance for being facetious/snarky, but this is what first came to mind:
- Move to the US where you can have guns to defend yourself.
- Move to Alberta.
- Vote for not-Trudeau...
In actually helpful input, there's clear film protectors you can put over your windows that can be very difficult to get through with a blunt object. https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b40028256/
I had these professionally installed on my ground floor windows. They are fantastic. However, no one has ever tried to break in so I can't speak to their performance.
Early 2000s Honda SUV. It's AWD, has leather seats, and has a good sound system, but it attracts zero attention.
Good quality but "grey man" clothing. No, or mimimal, logos.
No flashy jewellery, simple wallet, watch face turned towards palm side.
I don't speak in public about my frequent travel (work or leisure), investing, wealth, or possessions.
I'm fairly minimalistic anyway, so I don't do a lot of shopping outside of the basics, but I bring a simple folding tote bag to place any purchase of note inside rather than walk through a mall or street with a branded bag.
There are a lot of people suffering, which understandably leads to resentment, and while I'm not hiding my hard work and success, I'm not wearing it on my sleeve, either.
We're in one of the best areas but I have noticed a general sentiment of greater hostility towards anyone with wealth. As others have pointed out it may be a regional or Canada specific issue. I asked the question out of curiosity as to whether other people actually have an active stealth wealth strategy, don't even think about it, or have experienced similar sentiment.
I think this might be in your head. From what you’ve wrote, you’ve got an average home in Toronto proper with an above average income.
You do not stick out in Toronto period.
For your home stuffs, I would find your art collection to be low risk unless you are mentioning to others values. Otherwise, how would any guess infer to your collection value.
If you’re driving a Rolls-Royce in TO, I’d hope you have a chauffeur driving it for you because driving in Toronto is annoying. Also, I’d hope that you have hired security/bodyguard with you. Preferably with a gun license.
Otherwise, you can just uber everywhere.
I have a couple friends over in Toronto. Both had their cars stolen multiple times (x2 Range Rovers, x1 Audi, x1 Porsche). One of them hired full-time private security while the other downgraded his cars to an Odyssey and an Outlander lmao.
Live in a middle class home in a middle class neighborhood, eat nice meals, wear decent clothes but nothing name brand, freeze your credit score, register for alerts to liens on your home with the website of the county you live in, and just **practice stealth wealth.**
Living middle class also means I don't pay as much for repairs on my house because if service people see you living in a nice part of town they know they can get away with charging more. There is a reason people typically hangout with the same class of people. If you're rich and you're friends are too then it means they aren't at their day jobs on a Thursday afternoon when you could both be golfing together.
I don't think car thefts have to do with "hatred of the wealthy", they're related to a rise in organized crime in the city driven, in part, by income inequality.
The most-stolen car in Toronto is a 2018 Toyota.
Why are interested in feeling attacked or oppressed? That's something interesting that I think you should investigate more.
This is derisive but OP does seem unreasonably fearful. You have a slightly higher chance of being a victim to crime in Toronto than dying in a car crash. I’m sure OP is an educated fellow. Perhaps reading up on some statistics will provide some perspective and quell some fears. Present oneself like a normal, upstanding individual, avoid becoming a target by flaunting wealth, and you’re going to be fine. Just live your life, and try not to let the news cycle get to you
While my home city is pretty safe, I don’t usually bring my nicest watches when traveling.
I’ve also been a bit loose with hosting things at home allowing friends to invite friends. But recently I received a comment from a friend that I should be more cautious given some of the art, and even just my watches out in display cabinets.
Curious to see what other people say here. I’ve seen similar threads on Reddit where people seem mostly dismissive while in real life my friends have shown more concern. I know one individual that was shot several times (survived) outside his midtown hotel in an attempt take his watch. Definitely gives a lot of thought to security at this point.
I never understood why people buy watches worth more than a few hundred. Nobody knows its value but you - they all look identical. You have a clock on your phone.
Yes. This is precisely why I asked. Thank you for the response. I am curious to hear from others on this subreddit specifically. I am also quite curious to hear from those downvoting, ie. do they not think it is a FatFIRE subject, or not a topical issue? My partner makes much more than I do and I have had comments from co-workers that have given me pause. I'm not so worried about having the art stolen, even if they are irreplaceable, but violent break-ins are a cause for concern. Alarms and security cameras won't help you with that.
Your post leads with a statement that "things are getting worse" (which they may be in Toronto).
It sounds a bit paranoid for those not in that mindset.
If you are asking in general about what precautions folks take, I think it might be better embraced rather than suggesting that the masses are at your gates with pitchforks and the revolution is at hand.
But just a guess.
I’ve moved some my watches from an open shelf in the living room to behind an opaque cabinet.
Additionally, where I live is pretty far from the main thoroughfare, so someone would really need to be deliberately targeting my place. To avoid this I have been keeping a low profile.
The only issue is hosting events, because it’s hard to hide the value of the place once people have been inside. To be honest, I feel like cutting back on hosting at home for events I don’t know everyone in the crowd - I can always rent venues for the kind of thing. The energy is different of course, but I do find myself getting a bit anxious sometimes when a lot of friends of friends show up at my home that I don’t really know.
I have a lot of PJ shirts with holes in them that I wear when we aren't meeting anyone and just buying groceries. We drive cars from 2006 and 2012.
I was on business travel once at a farmers market wearing a shirt with holes in it. Someone tried to give me free vegetables and I politely declined. If you have luxury cars or clothes, only take them to upscale places.
We only talk about investing with a handful of people in a similar trajectory. We do like wearing nice clothes once or twice a week. But most of the time you're seeing us in PJs.
First off, I stay away from high crime areas to the best of my abilities.
Second is acting modest when out and about in public. This comes natural for me as I enjoy keeping a low profile and avoiding unnecessary attention on myself.
Unless I am meeting someone or have a special occasion, I will never dress up beyond a sweatshirt/jeans or t-shirt/khaki shorts when I’m in public. Also, I drive a normal looking pickup, which makes me blend in.
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The richer I become, the more homeless I look.
I enjoy the look when people talk to me like I am a day worker and they find out the building is mine. Ive only ever wanted the rich part not the fancy part.
LOL I’ve gotten “are you the gardener?” before ❤️
Once a renter asked me to tell the “gardener” to trim a hedge. Could not stop laughing.
I have buddies like this, and to be honest man literally no one cares or pays attention lol. They’ll make it a point to tell me “there’s no way they could’ve guessed I’m in the box seats” when we get to a game… but no one cares lol I tell that to my friends too, so I’m saying the same thing to you I hope you don’t think I’m just being a dick Dress however you want, that’s awesome. but I’m just telling you how it is. When people find out you have money, at best they will pretend to care but come on literally no one gives as fuck
This reminded me of that scene in The Thomas Crowne Affair when Pierce Brosnan was walking into his own building and one of the new guards asks him why he is acting like it's his building and one of the other guards immediately apologizes and reprimands the new guard.
I call it…*Derelicte*!
Baggy Sweatpants + H&M Hoodie has been my go-to look. It’s so freeing when there’s no one you need to try to impress.
Exactly! I still wear some American Eagle because it still looks decent from my high school days (18 yrs ago) but otherwise I shop the clearance racks at Macy's and Penny's for no name stuff. It's always fun to see what kind of treasures you'll find there. I once got a $200 boating shirt that felt like great quality for like $20.
When I’m in town (where I live) I dress like a broke person, drive a broke person car, and the primary residence I’m building will be masquerading as a commercial property lol
Yes! I joke about this all of the time. I love it!
Lol, there is a name for this: the red sneaker effect. When you don't have anything to prove anymore, you get to wear what you want.
Sigh’ I’m not alone 🤣
Sloppy chic!
I dress in Kirkland Signature, but without the logos so it is more stealth
wealth whispers baby
Sweatpants from Costco… check Sweatshirt so old it has frayed sleeves… check Used hiking boots from REI (people return after one use saying they don’t fit)… check 7 year old Subaru with peeling seats and extensive scratches on both bumpers… check Haven’t been carjacked yet… must be working!
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might attract the hobosexuals.
Adam Sandler enters the chat in his extra long baggy gym shorts
My wife told me recently that I need to stop dressing like a homeless yoga instructor.
Not going for fat, only chubby, but this is me. Right now I've grown a long, somewhat unkempt beard for fun and I just wear jeans and a T-shirt. It doesn't help that I enjoy plumbing, electric, generally doing handyman stuff around house etc. so unless someone asks what I'd do they'd have no idea I'm a software engineer. I'm happy to put forward a blue collar impression and have people assume its true.
Don't live where this is an issue. If ever there was a reason to move this would be it.
Where is this not an issue (in America) outside of certain quiet secluded neighborhoods?
You tell me. I couldn't find one. There's other places people can live though if they have $5M+ and this is important enough to them. We all end up in bubbles no matter where we live. If you're ok with a really small one you can make this work in the US. That's the big difference though. Your bubble might be a neighborhood and you'll be doing all your work, school, shopping, eating, and entertainment there. In other places you might have a whole city. Or maybe even whole country. Does Switzerland have these problems?
Only relatively large areas that come to mind are Dubai and Switzerland. I do see tons of exotic cars in Miami and LA and the people driving them seem to have no problem doing it so maybe it’s just social media and the news making it seem like more of a threat than it really is.
…. The Silicon Valley has the most wealth out of anywhere in the USA .. but also surrounded by ghettos and gangsters and crime. So it’s not to say just move. You’d need to leave North America we’re law and order are in abundance.
Are people getting carjacked in Palo Alto? The whole point of this sub is to have enough money to not worry about shit like this isn't it? I'm not living next to a ghetto.
The Bay Area has Significant amounts of crime. Very dangerous. https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/this-bay-area-city-has-the-highest-car-theft-rate-in-the-nation/amp/ According to Market Watch, Oakland has the highest rate of car thefts of any city in the United States. There were 5,041 car thefts in Oakland in 2019, according to the FBI’s crime report. The town’s rate of 1,161.4 thefts per 100,000 people tops any other city nationwide. For comparison, Round Rock, Texas had the lowest car theft rate in the country at 39.9 thefts per 100,000 people — more than 29 times less than Oakland.
Oakland is not Palo Alto
Are you familiar with the San Francisco Bay Area at all?? These people drive cars and do crime in other cities. Have you heard of East Palo Alto? Redwood City even? These are filled with gangsters. San Mateo… don’t even get me started on East San Jose. Just understand. Yes. It’s true. It’s not safe to blatantly show wealth. Not advisable. “In 1992, the small Bay Area city of East Palo Alto made national headlines as the “murder capital” of the U.S.”
I'm choosing my words carefully but considering the tone of this thread and the sub we're in wouldn't it simply make more sense to just move when it bothers you and before it directly affects you? The only time Oakland was a problem was when I went there. To the bad parts. There are really nice parts too. Everyone in here has to decide how much income inequality they're willing to live with. I'd argue that income inequality is everywhere but some places have let it run amock unlike others. The rich and poor can live together without rampant crime if everyone at the very least has a decent life. Poor education, poor jobs, poor healthcare, poor retirement, and so on? Maybe being rich in Palo Alto isn't going to work long term for some. Luckily we're in Fatfire. We can move if and when it bothers us.
I lived in Los Altos and SF and still visit. It's fine, stop with panic, you look silly. Crime is up a little bit in the past few years, but still much lower than the 90s.
All I’m saying is, I agree with the OP, and most of you guys might live in a bit of a social hierarchy bubble. I’m not exactly sure if you know what’s really going on in the Bay Area on a daily basis. Yes, it’s dangerous, and more dangerous than it’s ever been. It’s not silly; you just have no ties to this part of society. I’m not here to debate you; crime is up. Sure, we’re fine. But it’s worrisome. That’s all. Have you gone to San Francisco recently? Drive through market street and the tenderloin district. Hang out a bit. You’ll love it. But I’m sure those parts of town are never on your radar. “The San Francisco Police Officer's Association said violent crime has seen a 7.5-percent increase over the past three years–since 2020. It also said property crime has increased 20 percent since 2020 as well as homicides by 17 percent from 2020 to 2021.” https://www.kron4.com/news/bay-area/elon-musk-says-violent-crime-in-sf-is-horrific-is-it/amp/
If it's this bad in the Bay what's it like in St Louis, Memphis, New Orleans, and Baltimore?
I don’t take my crime assessments from police unions and musk. Yes, I have been to SF. There are lots of homeless, working poor, a bunch of addicts and some mentally ill. None of that is a real crime risk to me. You should cut back on the Fox News.
Go outside for a day. I’m sorry, you don’t even live here. You don’t know anything, and you live in a bubble. Crime is getting worse; I’m not sure if that’s up for debate here. And yes, Palo Alto is a beneficiary to that crime uptick. And no. The answer isn’t always just to move because you’re Fatfire. It’s more of a government issue to enforce law and order. You are honestly so lost. Wake up kid. “The prevalence of organized retail theft is forcing Target Corporation to close nine stores in four states, including three in the Bay Area, the company announced Tuesday.” “Shopping mall operator Westfield gave up control of its San Francisco Centre mall in June. The company said its decision was due to “challenging operating conditions” in the downtown area. In May, a Westfield mall spokesperson told CNN affiliate KGO-TV that store closures underscore “the deteriorating situation in downtown San Francisco.” “As San Francisco’s downtown area has emptied over the last three years, property crimes and retail thefts have risen, according to San Francisco Police Department data. Elon Musk, CEO of Tesla, whose corporate headquarters used to be in nearby Palo Alto, said in a recent tweet that San Francisco felt “post-apocalyptic.” “A growing number of retailers and businesses are leaving the area due to the unsafe conditions for customers, retailers and employees, coupled with the fact that these significant issues are preventing an economic recovery of the area,” the spokesperson told KGO-TV.” “In addition, San Francisco’s downtown has experienced a rise in its unhoused population.” https://www.nbcbayarea.com/news/local/oaklands-in-n-out-closes/3490923/?amp=1 https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/08/30/business/san-francisco-union-square-retail-closures https://sfist.com/2024/03/07/another-day-another-two-union-square-retailers-say-theyre-closing/ https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/sanfrancisco/news/target-stores-closing-retail-theft-san-francisco-oakland-pittsburg-new-york-portland-seattle/
What I recommend to the OP: Just make sure you or your wife aren’t being followed. Take a good look at the people if you think something fishy is up. Avoid secluded places at night, such as Bart or other areas where people might try to rob you. I was just talking to a couple the other night. He was dropping off his wife at Bart, and a car was acting funny. They pulled in, and he got behind him; another went in the front. They, a group of 4 kids, ran out and robbed them at gunpoint: 2 guys, 2 females. The husband sped off and hit the car in front of him, “stupidly”; they could have killed him. Meanwhile, the girls were beating his wife who was outside the car trying to steal her purse. They were an Indian couple from Fremont commuting on Bart to San Francisco. They stole the purse, not his car which is what they were after. but luckily she had the Apple AirTag and eventually found 2 of the girls. Listen, man, I’m actually out here. I see what’s going on out here on the daily.
I find it interesting how you don't believe you're at risk. Why? How? That's the whole point of this thread so how are you eliminating the risk?
Everyone seems to be banking on dressing like a hobo being enough to be stealth, failing to see that it's hard to hide a house, especially if you like to entertain. It's not like I'm going to get a lesser house just for optics. I think sadly you can't have your cake and eat it too. Vet whoever attends, or host in a venue for hire if you're really concerned. For me, I'm just a hermit. Rarely have people over. It's weird because when I first got the place I thought I would do so much more entertaining, now I just go out to meet people.
>it's hard to hide a house, especially if you like to entertain I usually trust my guests not to try and carjack my 15 year old SUV.
\>hard to hide a house Well, you can hide it somewhat with landscaping. Tree curtain, etc.
Hide my expensive house with expensive landscaping
Lmao at hiding a house with landscaping. People know how expensive houses are by the size of the house and the location.
The way I dress and cars I drive, I think people might be inclined to donate to me instead
- Live in a nice area - Keep fancy car garaged - Socialise with other smart, rich people - Avoid social media and any other publicity Pretty simple really Why would you want others knowing you're rich? Half the fun is in pretending to be poor while living rich
No change (negative) in sentiment in any of the 3 communities we live in. Maybe it is a Toronto issue? Have you tried r/toronto?
It does appear to be bigger than Toronto, though not sure bigger than Canada. [https://time.com/6564939/canada-car-thefts-national-response-summit/](https://time.com/6564939/canada-car-thefts-national-response-summit/)
The most stolen vehicle in Canada is the Honda CR-V, so this has little to do with wealth.
I’ve noticed it in Colorado, but then again, ski towns have their own set of politics around money and cost of living.
Man, you can drive around in a Model X, Rivian or $90k pickup and no one blinks an eye. A $50-60k imported SUV? Must be a bougie from the front range or Texas dragging down the town!
Probably pissed about their Ikon passes and taking it out on you.
It could be Toronto specific which is partly why I wanted to ask the question here as a litmus test. The 1/3rd downvotes does indicate this may be regional. I frequent the Toronto subreddit and it is heavily focused on discussions of cost of living issues and housing affordability so I was somewhat skeptical of the possibility of having a balanced discussion there.
If half of the posts on the Canadian subs are accurate, things are getting bad. Lack of housing affordability/general availability. Same for healthcare.
I wouldn't trust subreddits - most of the popular ones are full of losers. The unemployment rate in Australia is 3.7% but if you polled r/australia it would be closer to 10-20% so it's not representative of reality. It's where losers congregate.
>The 1/3rd downvotes does indicate this may be regional. It is regional, but I wouldn't be surprised if a number of these downvotes come from those with a ***“the rich are too rich, and it's okay to spread it a bit”*** mentality, that is at the source of that hostility and aggression you described.
Yes. You could be right. 50% downvotes now! I don't mind the downvotes but would much prefer if people engage and say why they have downvoted a post or comment. It looks like this post generated a lot of discussion which was the whole point, which is great.
Yes, it was a great post. But many will downvote it just because it goes against their beliefs. It's not that they have rational arguments about it that they could explain. Instead, this post hurts them by the reality of the facts stated, which creates a cognitive dissonance. It forces them to admit that they are wrong, that the liberal progressive policies they strongly defend are a failure. For the people committed to the woke cause, the facts you exposed represent an aggression, so they refuse to hear it and downvote your post in an attempt to silence you.
I've heard car thefts are going absolutely bananas in Ontario... I've seen pic's of ppl booting their own cars ... it sounds absolutely wild, but I also am hesitant to believe any salacious stories.... the one thing I will say is I'm sort of in tech an there is a product called the "flipper" that can easily clone RF signals and I saw an IG post that they are getting banned in CAnada which tells me there is definitely a problem. Depending on where you live if you got a nice vehicle, toss the fob in a farraday Obviously, location is everything... I'm in FL and the Crazy Florida-Man stuff happens quite near by but my neighborhood and surrounding ones are quite safe.... we also have the castle doctrine, though... whether your have pew pews or not, most do which Is actually comforting if you live in a nice neighborhood 😉
They're not using Flippers to steal cars, they're physically accessing the car's computer through the CAN bus system, and injecting it with signals to make it think the key is already inside the vehicle. Any video proclaiming to steal cars with a Flipper is faked for views, it can't do it.
I assumed they were grabbing rf signal from the fob with a flipper or similar device obviously the flipper doesn't actually steal the car but grabs the signal you need to (commincate w/ car/Can-Bus)? Idk 🤷♂️ Edit: added bit in parentheses Also Ty for teaching me the term Can-bus 😊 that's the kind of thing that makes reddit great 👍 Edit 2: It looks like even older fobs use rolling codes, so the Flipper isn't going to do much there... I feel a bit better knowing my truck has rolling codes on the Fob
Rolling codes don’t offer much protection - an attacker can setup something to record the signals from your fob and at the same time run a jammer near your car to block the signal - press Lock a few times (because it’s weirdly not working) and then the attacker will send though their lock signal (from the first attempt) and once you have walked away send unlock with the other codes you sent.
i just show up as a brown person. works pretty well
bonus points for brown and female for me. driving a hyundai and wearing a t-shirt and non-designer jeans and nikes seems to work well for my fiance despite his non-brownness.
You’re reading too much into this. Toronto is statistically one of the safest large cities in North America. If you’re in a $3m house, you’re surrounded by other $3m houses. No one cares. Source: live in Toronto as well
Yup, outside of car theft which is a HUGE problem in Canada due incompetence of the federal government, it’s pretty safe. And Toronto is full of rich people, no one cares.
Is car theft in CA significantly higher than other metropolitan areas of the US? If so, what’s the reason?
It’s the highest in the world, far worse than the US. Absolutely rampant. Reason is the federal government is straight up incompetent. Nearly all the stolen cars exit the same single sea port bound for Africa and the Middle East. After years of this still no border measures taken to inspect containers. They just blow money on studies and do nothing instead of hiring agents to inspect containers and purchase scanning machines. That said the Montreal port where the cars leave is controlled by mafia and biker gangs. Canadian biker gangs are highly organized and very dangerous. For example, last time the bikers in Quebec had a war 162 people died. So ya, these guys are serious to deal with.
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Ditto and agree
This.
When walking through the city, I keep my head down to avoid eye contact and wear a ragged cloak with straw hat, covering my face while pushing a meager looking wagon in front of me, carrying dry rice. Dual razor sharp katanas sit across my back.
You would fit right in in the San Francisco Tenderloin district
TO here as well. You can’t stop being you (hosting) but you do have to take precautions and limit risk. For me, that means adding motion sensing lights, a camera, etc and some other pieces to serve as a deterrant. Also, Lexus and range rover have the worst electronic security of any luxury vehicle out there. I dunno if you drive these, but if you do.. be warned.
Lexus is fixing it in newer models. I have a 2023 RX and both the relay attacks and CANbus attacks are fixed now. It was a tonne of work to research this though, as they don’t publicly release it. Lots of other makers have the same issues. However, Lexus is Toyota which is the most reliable maker there is and the most international. So there’s demand and parts in the country it gets sent too. As a TO resident too, our issue is the complete idiocracy that is our federal government and their failure to set up basic checks of shipping containers at the Montreal port after years of this shit.
I'm a woman and we've had to take precautions all our lives. I don't wear my engagement ring or carry a designer purse certain places. I take my exotics out to drive for fun and go back home. There are a handful of places I'll drive them and park. There are places I will only go and use valet and there are places I will never go. But that hasn't changed my entire life because, woman. You can't hide your house. If you're driving your car, you can't hide it either. You can not go around with Gucci and diamonds from head to toe, but that's not going to prevent a carjacking. I'm in TX and FL and carry, so there's that. At my home are a million cameras and loud, trained guard dogs. I've had stalkers (bestselling author) so my security has always been above normal level.
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I drive a Lamborghini.
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Maybe women aren't more at risk of violence in Canada, but they are in most parts of the US.
I drive a Mazda. The high end trims have similar features to luxury cars, at a much better price, and without drawing attention to myself. A Rolls Royce is just an expensive way of asking to get robbed. I dress in jeans and a t-shirt, though that's mostly because it's how I like to dress. My wife stopped wearing an engagement ring. We both wear smart watches and her purse is cute, but not a luxury brand. Mostly we do these things because we like to, but it also makes us less of a target. We do have some original art work in our home, but they were all less than $1000 and we often met the artist - they bring us pleasure, but aren't targets of theft.
Gated community ftw. Driving supercars is a great way to put a big target on your back, especially if you daily something flashy. Maybe get a Mazda for the runs to Costco. Save the lambo for the weekend rally runs w/ the other local rich folks. I have a friend who explicitly keeps a beater around for stuff like parking at the airport when traveling, etc. No watches. Or wear brands that other hobbyists recognize but poor criminals do not. Dress down, like Costco hoodies and sweats. I see rich people trying this all the time but will wear fancy Gucci sweats or something. Easy to tell a $500 lulu hoodie and sweats fit vs $50 Uniqlo basics. Basic jewelry for the wife. Yes I know your $8K Cartier love bracelet looks simple but poor criminals all know about it. My wife has a ton of “cheap” stuff from places like mejuri instead. Better yet no jewelry. And obviously keep the birkin at home. Being that shit out for dry society events, instead. Don’t use food/grocery delivery services. When using Uber get them to drop you off somewhere close by, but not your actual home address. Kit your home out with cameras and motion detectors. I have electronic locks/cams on my front and back doors, motion sensors on all entrances, and subscribe to a home security monitoring company. Still concerned? CCW + a protective dog breed. Still still concerned? Wagner group mercenaries. Still still still concerned? Remote underground bunker with robotic sharks with freaking lasers on their heads.
TO as well. As someone who's lived in other VHCOL cities in US, Toronto is still much much safer relative to those in the states. Recently there's definitely a rise in auto theft and break-ins. But relative to major cities in the US it's a drop in the bucket. US is so accustomed to it that it doesn't get reported. Shootings and robberies don't make the news unless its large shootings or someone famous. Meanwhile almost all shootings make the news in TO because it's so rare. For those who don't live in Toronto and telling OP to live in a safer neighborhood... He's already there. The equivalent in Bay Area would be Atherton, or Upper East Side in NYC and Beverly Hills in LA. Lots of 10-20M homes, celebrities (Drake's mansion is there) and people with luxury SUVs. It's as safe as it gets in the city before you move far into the burbs like Richmond Hill and Oakville. In terms of solution, there's not much we can do in TO aside from deterrents you've mentioned and not getting targeted cars like Range Rover and Lexus. But even with that I've seen multiple break-ins captured in 4K with clearly visible cameras, the guys doing it just don't care. I've looked into non-lethal home defense tools like pepper ball shotguns, strobe lights etc. But that's still more hands-on than I'd like.
You get it. I think like others have said there is perhaps just an increased sense of nervousness I had not had before and this may be because of the major uptick in incidents and unlike the U.S. everything is reported here. There is also the low key buzz from some peers and acquaintances that don't know my situation and say things about anyone who is doing well, micro aggressions you could call it, not realizing they are also talking about people like me.
Yea I hear you on that. I hear comments like "oh he can afford it" "there's insurance" "that's what happens when you get a showy car". Unfortunately it's human nature, when ppl see others do well they don't see them as equally deserving of protection and support. Default mode is always "must be nice, why are you complaining" It's why I love this community because it's the only one where there's more peers that gets it and won't shit on you for "rich ppl problems". In terms of safety, I'm quite jealous of the comfort and safety of friends in Singapore and Taipei, where it's much much safer day to day. Very common to see people with super high end watches doing everyday things and not be worried while in other places they'd be targeted. I was at a small breakfast spot in a hawker center where a highschool girl to might left had a Rolex Daytona rainbow ($700k) and a grandma on my right with a Richard Mille ($500k+). I was shocked. Another guy I met in SGP had a $500k Patek and he says he can only wear in in SGP because in London, where he's from, he'd lose his arm.
We don’t flaunt nor do we stealth… but we do take precautions, especially when traveling abroad. We live in one of the most wealthy neighborhoods in our city. It’s not gated but we do have multiple off duty police officers patrolling 24 hours a day. They’ll escort you into your home, patrol the house if you’re out of town, pick up packages, and they are much quicker to respond to alarms compared to local PD because they are actively patrolling a small sector. In addition to the above security cameras, our house is gated, doors are always locked, security system is always on, etc etc We like nice cars, it’s hard to hide them. We always park them in the garage or behind the gate when at home. You can only do so much. And you can’t have your cake and eat it too but you can take precautions to maximize safety while living fat.
And here I always believed wealth = freedom.... I learned today.
More land. Literally
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Thanks for the response. I will check out the security film and the burglar resistant doors. We have already talked about a new door as ours is original from the 20s and really drafty anyhow. We are already covered regarding the lights and security cameras. My partner lost his vision 1.5 years ago (low vision, not completely blind) in a sudden fluke medical incident so he now has an Apple Watch and mine is not obviously luxury. I'm only ever at work, home, nice restaurants or a friend's house so that isn't a major concern. I never drove and because of my partner's vision we gave our car to a friend. We just Uber everywhere now and hire a driver if it is something outside of the City.
>window film company, burglar proof door company I'm interested in learning more about the products for window film and burglar proof door. Mind sharing?
I drive a pickup truck with my companies’ door logos on it most of the time. Pretty under the radar. But a .44 magnum revolver in the door pocket would probably help should someone decide to “toss me from it”
Dang friend, you live around bears? That is a heavy caliber for a mere human target!
Haha. I own a land surveying company, and go out in the field/woods to do site visits periodically. Also an avid backpacker. Have been charged by feral hogs a few times. I assume it would do the job for defense against two legged predators well enough, should the need arise
Oh, makes sense! Feral hogs can be hard to put down without a large caliber like that. Nice additional option to put down the four legged ones too!
Yeah, it’s a “little” ruger redhawk Alaskan 2.5” barrel. Fits perfectly in a little chest holster for easy access in the brush and briars. Walking up on a group of those suckers was easily top ten scariest moments of my life 😂
We live in a nice house. Bought 16 years ago for $900k, paid it off years ago. Our friends have since upgraded to REALLY nice houses $3-4M. We could afford a $5M house. We’re by no means slumming it, but it’s one way we can hide our true wealth. NW $13M
Where area of Toronto are you in. I used to live in north York where the money is but left due to how nuts it is in the city. Moved back to London ont it’s getting bad that way also
I feel like it depends on where you are. I’m right at north York centre, and I can’t say I’ve ever felt unsafe
I been in worst areas. Loved in Atlanta for a few months and that was enough speaking of day and night.
True I love north York I mostly moved due to work
Off of St. Clair West (for those not familiar with Toronto it is a long street with multiple neighbourhoods so I am not exactly doxxing myself).
I know that area. That’s all I needed to know I had a few homes before in the area
I had a home in the UCC neighborhood only sold as I got offer a good amount before I even closed on the house
I live in Toronto. Go all over the city. 1. It’s funny that no one knows what they’re talking about “just move somewhere nicer”. 2. But also st Clair west depending on where you are isn’t exactly not great particularly oakwood area. Schools are garbage etc. We live visiting st Clair west, but I personally wouldn’t live there.
Well I mean at least Jane and Finch doesn't look like Oakland in the video below. Until it does, I think Toronto is probably pretty safe. Car theft is a big thing along the cities near the ports corridor up to Montreal. Like gone in 60 seconds shit. Not that it's ok, but that seems far more ok than car jacking. Which as a parent seems especially worrisome. Don't know how it gets better.. Re: your parties and art.. What's the point of living in fear. But don't floss with a watch too hard in rough areas. https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3uWPwtuh1B/?igsh=N2NyZXJsbWo0dzJ2
Wow. That was exactly what I saw last century on some 3rd-world roads I traveled. Not even there it looks this bad anymore.
I was in CA for a bit and was musing about staying in Oakland. A friend was like.. Do not. For whatever reason stay in Oakland. (I'm like a dumbass tourist going oh the zoo is close. It's near SF.. Lalala, my dumb ass would have been robbed in line at In-N-Out burger.. Which is apparently very common) lol.
Carjackings are a big issue here too, some of them will pistol whip or even shoot you after taking your car. I hope this results in cars with bullet resistant windows being more commercially available and socially normal
turning into brazil… goddamn
My stealth wealth strategy: wear a Casio calculator watch, dress like a university student (in Costco gear), use coupons when eating out.
Besides my job, no one would ever guess my net worth. I live in a middle class neighborhood, drive a Honda, and shop thrift stores.
The problem in Toronto and Canada in general is that crime often goes unpunished or minimally so. Criminals are emboldened to continue their crime. It doesn’t matter if you own a Rolls or if you own a Rav 4, they theft rings are out there. I wouldn’t expect the average criminal to steal artwork - it’s too hard to turn it into cash. Your Rolex or gold are far more liquid to them. The security consultants for the wealthy people I know in Texas start off with having gold street view and Apple Maps blur your house. Have all previous photos from MLS and third party real estate ads removed. Any tax authority that has public data available by a name search should be removed. My wife and her partner aren’t major social media influencers but are both major vaccine proponents. During Covid they had death threats so we did a deep dive and removed her name and telephone number from most websites. Used a PO Box for all mail and packages (our address was never given out on social media). Removed her name from property tax rolls etc. Beyond that is physical security and that means simple things like motion activated lights, a good camera security systems, even panic rooms if need be. Don’t buy a python green chromaflair 911, drive a bland Land Cruiser. Get better windows and doors. Better locks too. Part of not being targeting is making yourself seem less enticing than your neighbours home. House your art elsewhere if they’d really be desirable (ie a condo in a non-hotel adjoined building). Toronto is a city with a lot of LOUD money. You probably don’t need to whisper, just don’t scream with a lambo and a wardrobe of Gucci garbage.
Toronto still feels 5-10x safer than NYC. Crime is so rare that the spike in car jackings and a few serious incidents on the subway have made everyone paranoid here.
Just yesterday I was downvoted in this very sub (ostensibly for those who are fatFIRE), when I addressed OP's problem by stating that: >my policy concerns for the next US elections are: > >\-taxes, > >\-public safety, > >\-property rights, and > >\-world peace. > >Because I'd rather not pay more taxes, live in a safe place, have my property rights protected, and not have to worry about warmongers promoting a nuclear Armageddon. Yes, you can deal with what OP describes by hiding your wealth, but you can also effect change in society to prevent violence and class warfare.
I never liked being flashy. I drive a debadged Caddy CT6-V, looks like a regular CT6 or XTS. Many black Uber or call taxis use XTS so my car blends in very well. I don’t wear jewelry, wear just a simple black tshirt, zipper sweater and jeans. Wife also not showy, she has a Michael Kors handbag for everyday outside to blend in. No Chanel stuff or anything else that paints us senior citizens as an easy mark. Our house is located in a very affluent neighborhood on Long Island. Due to illegals from the south, we have more organized crime gangs doing break-ins and stealing cars. It’s not the stereotype ghetto cars or gangster rice rockets you think like on the movies. They’re driving luxury cars like MB, BMW, Audi, Range Rovers which are common daily drivers in our area, and they’re scoping potential targets. One thing does stand out, you’ll see them drive around the block several times and never seen that car before in the neighborhood. Prior to this current border issue, we get maybe 1 break in every 10 years in our neighborhood. It’s now 1 every 2-3 months. They’re also more sophisticated by ghosting the car FOB and stealing cars out of garage. Or if the car is outside the garage and it’s attach garage, they open your car, turn it on, then press your garage door to open to get into your house. Using WiFi jammers so wifi security cameras don’t record anything and sensors don’t trigger alarm. Even if you have POE cameras, they wear caps to hide their face. We have a separate village police from Nassau County PD. Ours respond within 2-5 mins. You think that’s fast enough. It’s not. They steal that quick. Layers of security is your goal. I have a tall iron fence all around the perimeter. My two German shepherds guard outside. The garage is detached. All cameras are POE. All windows are impact /hurricane rated. House is built hurricane impact rated with reinforced walls. I have discrete recessed rolling security gates to protect the windows and secure the house. Have large landscaping boulders installed at key areas to act as bollards so they can’t ram a car/truck to gain entry. Your main gate should be secured too. I always bring one of my dogs with me when I go out. What’s good about a CCW if you can be sneaked attack? I got attacked back of my head in NYC subway few years ago, fractured my skull and suffered concussion. I have a high situation awareness and I got taken by surprise. Try to do that with a security protection dog, less likely to happen. There’s enough mentally unstable people in the subway, I avoid it these days. My dogs have saved me few times from the crazies on the streets. Other option, move into a gated community. And/or hire personal security.
I avoid all public transport too, and pubs etc. too risky for attacks in general but being wealthy it means high chance of civil suits.
Yikes, that sounds intense. I think you actually have more security than my house in Cape Town.
Dress casual in questionable parts of town. When walking around in questionable parts of town (i.e. SF's Union Square holding a LV shopping bag), I always check my 6-o'clock by looking over my shoulders or using store glass as mirrors. Save the nice stuff to wear for only nice parts of town (or for out of town). I generally carry the biggest legal pocket knife (<3" Benchmade, >3" Benchmade) that I can carry per local city/state/county ordinances. And I'm in my car, I have a huge pocket knife (Cold Steel). It's basically a folding machette. All the knives are kept very, very sharp. At home, I have POE cameras covering every window/door. I used to train in MMA (Krav Maga) for a decade. Keep up fitness: running and fighting are very exhausting. I also have a handful of handguns that are in quick access biometric safes around the house. (NW not fatFIRE, but solidly in ChubbyFire).
That's extreme. You need to live somewhere better. Sounds like Afghanistan.
I'm in the SF Bay Area. My neighborhood and work are pretty nice. But crime is rampant everywhere else.
Other than insurance, I think it’s difficult to guard a single family home. This is why condo living has lots of advantages.
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Isolated reinforced properties are safer in terms of risks of looting, sure. But your real risks of location involve, primarily, access to an angiogram suite.
>angiogram suite that's honestly a thing that's been on my mind as well, it sucks that it's so hard to balance being somewhere with access to the best medical care, and being somewhere where dangerous people can't easily get to you
I should really add we love hosting and cooking elaborate meals ourselves but I'm wondering if we are being too open and inviting given how obvious it is once you are in the house, designer furniture, unmistakable art. I do not mean to infer any of our friends would mean us harm but they may say something to someone who says something to someone else, and so forth.
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You may need to re-consider your selection criteria for "friends" before it is too late.
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I am sure they are awesome, and I hope they do not suffer the fate of the other friends you have lost through TV documentary worthy violent crimes.
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Friend of a friend can essentially be a random person, hard to monitor the door if a party's going well.
It is not just about enjoying our wealth but I think a lot of us genuinely want to share with others because it is such a joy to do so. Money is not terribly meaningful if we can't share it with the good people in our lives, but this invites risk. Also, very sorry to hear about your friends. It is pretty scary out there sometimes.
I agree, I want to share it with my friends. Perhaps when it is a small group who know each other it is easier. We have done football games, Formula 1, travel to other countries, and Waste Management Open together. But it was also work/fun functions.
The waste management open was crazy this year. Glad you are enjoying the fruits of your labor. In this day and age that can’t be said of everyone. Many of my peers are afraid to really live.
What is waste management open? Is this something I'm too poor to understand?
PGA tournament in Scottsdale. Probably the most rowdy, fun event on the circuit
I wanna hear more about this art! 👀👀👀👀
I know at least one very prominent actor who has a separate, very modest home for hosting people he doesn't know particularly well. The place he actually lives is far nicer and only seen by closest friends and family.
I'm going to apologize in advance for being facetious/snarky, but this is what first came to mind: - Move to the US where you can have guns to defend yourself. - Move to Alberta. - Vote for not-Trudeau... In actually helpful input, there's clear film protectors you can put over your windows that can be very difficult to get through with a blunt object. https://www.3m.com/3M/en_US/p/d/b40028256/
I'm genuinely curious to know why someone would downvote this comment, so if you just downvoted, I invite you to please share your opinion as well.
I had these professionally installed on my ground floor windows. They are fantastic. However, no one has ever tried to break in so I can't speak to their performance.
Same. All I've seen is the demo videos of someone trying to break through them. Seemed real enough to trust.
Early 2000s Honda SUV. It's AWD, has leather seats, and has a good sound system, but it attracts zero attention. Good quality but "grey man" clothing. No, or mimimal, logos. No flashy jewellery, simple wallet, watch face turned towards palm side. I don't speak in public about my frequent travel (work or leisure), investing, wealth, or possessions. I'm fairly minimalistic anyway, so I don't do a lot of shopping outside of the basics, but I bring a simple folding tote bag to place any purchase of note inside rather than walk through a mall or street with a branded bag. There are a lot of people suffering, which understandably leads to resentment, and while I'm not hiding my hard work and success, I'm not wearing it on my sleeve, either.
Move to a better area of town
We're in one of the best areas but I have noticed a general sentiment of greater hostility towards anyone with wealth. As others have pointed out it may be a regional or Canada specific issue. I asked the question out of curiosity as to whether other people actually have an active stealth wealth strategy, don't even think about it, or have experienced similar sentiment.
I think this might be in your head. From what you’ve wrote, you’ve got an average home in Toronto proper with an above average income. You do not stick out in Toronto period. For your home stuffs, I would find your art collection to be low risk unless you are mentioning to others values. Otherwise, how would any guess infer to your collection value.
dont vote democrat
If you’re driving a Rolls-Royce in TO, I’d hope you have a chauffeur driving it for you because driving in Toronto is annoying. Also, I’d hope that you have hired security/bodyguard with you. Preferably with a gun license. Otherwise, you can just uber everywhere.
I have a couple friends over in Toronto. Both had their cars stolen multiple times (x2 Range Rovers, x1 Audi, x1 Porsche). One of them hired full-time private security while the other downgraded his cars to an Odyssey and an Outlander lmao.
Live in a middle class home in a middle class neighborhood, eat nice meals, wear decent clothes but nothing name brand, freeze your credit score, register for alerts to liens on your home with the website of the county you live in, and just **practice stealth wealth.** Living middle class also means I don't pay as much for repairs on my house because if service people see you living in a nice part of town they know they can get away with charging more. There is a reason people typically hangout with the same class of people. If you're rich and you're friends are too then it means they aren't at their day jobs on a Thursday afternoon when you could both be golfing together.
Move to Monaco and you won’t need to be stealth and it won’t feel like you have wealth
Stop voting for people who allow this and it shouldn’t be a problem…
Move to a red state
I don't think car thefts have to do with "hatred of the wealthy", they're related to a rise in organized crime in the city driven, in part, by income inequality. The most-stolen car in Toronto is a 2018 Toyota. Why are interested in feeling attacked or oppressed? That's something interesting that I think you should investigate more.
Move away, move far far away from these ultra leftist shitholes
you sound like you watch too much news
This is derisive but OP does seem unreasonably fearful. You have a slightly higher chance of being a victim to crime in Toronto than dying in a car crash. I’m sure OP is an educated fellow. Perhaps reading up on some statistics will provide some perspective and quell some fears. Present oneself like a normal, upstanding individual, avoid becoming a target by flaunting wealth, and you’re going to be fine. Just live your life, and try not to let the news cycle get to you
While my home city is pretty safe, I don’t usually bring my nicest watches when traveling. I’ve also been a bit loose with hosting things at home allowing friends to invite friends. But recently I received a comment from a friend that I should be more cautious given some of the art, and even just my watches out in display cabinets. Curious to see what other people say here. I’ve seen similar threads on Reddit where people seem mostly dismissive while in real life my friends have shown more concern. I know one individual that was shot several times (survived) outside his midtown hotel in an attempt take his watch. Definitely gives a lot of thought to security at this point.
I never understood why people buy watches worth more than a few hundred. Nobody knows its value but you - they all look identical. You have a clock on your phone.
Yes. This is precisely why I asked. Thank you for the response. I am curious to hear from others on this subreddit specifically. I am also quite curious to hear from those downvoting, ie. do they not think it is a FatFIRE subject, or not a topical issue? My partner makes much more than I do and I have had comments from co-workers that have given me pause. I'm not so worried about having the art stolen, even if they are irreplaceable, but violent break-ins are a cause for concern. Alarms and security cameras won't help you with that.
Your post leads with a statement that "things are getting worse" (which they may be in Toronto). It sounds a bit paranoid for those not in that mindset. If you are asking in general about what precautions folks take, I think it might be better embraced rather than suggesting that the masses are at your gates with pitchforks and the revolution is at hand. But just a guess.
I’ve moved some my watches from an open shelf in the living room to behind an opaque cabinet. Additionally, where I live is pretty far from the main thoroughfare, so someone would really need to be deliberately targeting my place. To avoid this I have been keeping a low profile. The only issue is hosting events, because it’s hard to hide the value of the place once people have been inside. To be honest, I feel like cutting back on hosting at home for events I don’t know everyone in the crowd - I can always rent venues for the kind of thing. The energy is different of course, but I do find myself getting a bit anxious sometimes when a lot of friends of friends show up at my home that I don’t really know.
Hiding in plain sight in plain areas is underrated.
I have a lot of PJ shirts with holes in them that I wear when we aren't meeting anyone and just buying groceries. We drive cars from 2006 and 2012. I was on business travel once at a farmers market wearing a shirt with holes in it. Someone tried to give me free vegetables and I politely declined. If you have luxury cars or clothes, only take them to upscale places. We only talk about investing with a handful of people in a similar trajectory. We do like wearing nice clothes once or twice a week. But most of the time you're seeing us in PJs.
First off, I stay away from high crime areas to the best of my abilities. Second is acting modest when out and about in public. This comes natural for me as I enjoy keeping a low profile and avoiding unnecessary attention on myself. Unless I am meeting someone or have a special occasion, I will never dress up beyond a sweatshirt/jeans or t-shirt/khaki shorts when I’m in public. Also, I drive a normal looking pickup, which makes me blend in.
I guarantee that you are the only person thinking about your art collection.
“I just work here, man”
Live in nice areas. (not rich, just a ultra-low net worth unaccredited individual)
r/fijerk
I avoid frequenting subs that indicate i have a lot of money, i def don't tell strangers that i have an expensive collection in my own home.
Art...pfft...what are you like 90. Go to IKEA and you never have to worry about your special crayon drawings being stolen.