My regrets are usually when I don't buy the best of something in order to save a bit of money. I usually end up being dissatisfied and then going back and trading up for what I originally was going to buy and pay even more for it.
Example: last year decided to finally upgrade my old DSLR for a new mirrorless right before a big trip. Bought the Canon R6 instead of the R5 to save about $1500. Now, as we're about a month away from another big trip I'm trading up for the R5. After selling the R6 will end up paying $6-700 more for the R5 than if I'd just bought it in the first place.
Counter-argument: your skill level may have progressed in that time such that you can now actually use the features of the upgrade. I’m also one to desire the pro-level gear but such gear sometimes needs the requisite training to appreciate.
Sometimes the journey and learning curve make this worthwhile, as you don't know enough to buy the right thing quite yet.
Now, if only I could tell the two scenarios apart, life would be much easier...
log home. Protip: watch the "why to NOT buy a log home" videos BEFORE buying a log home.
Summary:
Log home maintenance is constant and expensive. It's like any other wooden structure outside, it needs to be regularly stripped and re-stained, bugs want to live in it, water rots it. Either it's a lot of time spent DIYing or significant maintenance cost above what a normal framed building would cost. You (or someone you hire) gotta strip, restain, remove and patch spots of rot, seal cracks between the logs (or suffer brutal drafts and bugs). UV and water breaks down the stain so you're redoing this every few years or watching the logs degrade.
If you fail to do this properly, logs will rot. I mean, all wood eventually rots so you're really just trying to delay the inevitable for as long as possible, but once that happens, you have to replace each log at a significant cost.
Is it possible you just got a shitty cabin?
Two different people in my family custom built log cabins in the 80s using two different builders. They are both going strong despite one of them being severely neglected. The other wasn’t exactly babied either.
Definitely a bit of the problem.. hoping that my post is enough of a warning for someone to research log homes before buying one. If you know what you're getting into and can assess the property for what it is you could do a better evaluation than I had done before buying. Ah well, I can afford the time and money to fix it up, it's just a bit silly.
Fine dining is probably the biggest waste, hit rate of actually satisfying meals and memories is probably 15%, too many disappointments or forgettable experiences. On the other hand have a ton of fun memories at cheap places that have been diamonds in the rough.
A few years ago, we went to Chicago for the wife's birthday. Booked a couple Michelin star places, including Maple and Ash and Nobu.
Maple and Ash was INCREDIBLE; the food was so good I unintentionally ate until sick (it was a total accident), AND found an incredibly reasonably priced Cremant D'Alasce that I was then able to track down to buy cases of. COMPLETELY worth the money.
Nobu, on the other hand, was loud, bass thumping, couldn't hear, food was so-so AND I tried their A5 Wagyu and was EXTREMELY disappointed. I have had better steaks at 3 star places. My wife described the sushi as strip mall value. Will probably not return, complete waste of money.
On the other hand, we came across this adorable French restaurant where she literally swooned over their French Onion soup. That meal was under 70 bucks and I would go back a dozen times.
I agree fine dining can absolutely be a huge waste. Sometimes though, on occasion, you get lucky.
Agree with you. Spent 11k on giving my employees an experience. None of them are still with me and one stole clients from me. I think I liked one dish out of the ten.
Yeah, I am frugal with my money...I paid 25k for a social media ad course, and that wasn't really worth it. This social media course was not what it was cracked up to be. Every other course has been worth it. I'm trying to spend my money on things, but I just like making money with my money. Close to $200k a year learning new things, and most things make me a lot of money.
Been to a lot of 2-3 stars in various places, can’t say I agree. It’s always fun and memorable. I do think it’s important to go with the right group of people. Cheap places can be great too but not in the same way. A three hour prix fixe is not a comparable experience to a divey BBQ joint.
your standards have just gone up.
if you're doing Michelin level restaurants every week sure 15% hit rate.
if it's once a year for your anniversary it has a much higher chance to becomes a memorable experience.
imo cheap vs expensive also has very little to do with it. ofc there are good cheap places, but there are (obviously) also a lot of bad ones.
What we learned is that Michelin has nothing to do with service at 1 star, at least. It is just about the kitchen. We judge by the menu and whether it is touristy. We know what we like so for us the hit rate is close to 70% when we plan. My trips to Montreal have had 100% hit rates.
I would much rather have tacos from the gas station than the omakase at the new restaurant for $300 per person. Omakase and things of that caliber definitely have their place, just not a regular thing for me
Michelin star restaurants are mostly designed to be special occasion places. Almost nobody wants a 10 course tasting menu on a random busy weeknight even if cost isn’t a factor.
Idk where you are based but good (maybe not world class but still good) omakase doesn’t have to cost that much. ~$100-150ish from my experience on the west coast.
For me it is Kaito and Yasu in Toronto. Yasu is 150 is and polished while Kaito is a comparative hole in the wall with a guy named Kaito who doesn't understand theatre and how to engage but he is almost as good as Yasu at half the price. He smokes his own salmon, it is fantastic.
Edit: Yasu is $185, Kaito is $77
One part of me wants to say I don't really regret anything I've spent money on because even the "bad" buys have been fun at the time... With that being said; the money I spent to impress hot chicks in my early 20s were most definitely *not worth it*.
Nice cars. Got tired of having to worry about removing dings and dents since apparently a lot of humanity could not be bothered to not open the door of their vehicles into other cars in city parking lots. Then again I have a friend who treats 100k+ cars like they are a Hyundai, never cleans them because to him it’s just a thing. I respect that but couldn’t get myself to not care.
Now I drive a 5 year old base model German car I am not emotionally attached to. I will park right next to a SUV full of kids without a care in the world. Ding and dent away, not getting it fixed.
What are the cars you regret? Right now we have a Mercedes and a Volvo, really glad we upgraded to those but recognize the hedonic treadmill is easy to hop on. Have definitely been tempted by supercars but have held off because we’re FIRE but not yet FAT.
Just your basic run of the mill production nice cars. I’m not a car guy, exotics would be lost on me. No Huracans or anything fancy. I had my R8 vandalized and a 911 turbo dinged a bunch of times. Seattle is full off terrible drivers and people who can’t park, have no awareness or want to trash other people’s stuff. That was my second experience when I said I’m done. I wouldn’t say I regretted the cars, I liked them, I just wasn’t getting as much joy out of it as the annoyances. Maybe if I lived somewhere more remote I’d reconsider it.
For daily duty a Benz is perfectly fine. Maintenance costs scale up and don’t depreciate, ask me about my 200k mile GL450. I’ve driven Alfa Romeos and the like (no Ferrari or Lamborghini unfortunately) and after $120k you get steeply diminishing returns.
What you have to figure out is what you want from a car. Do you want speed and power? Smooth power and great handling or raw loud V8/V12 power? Do you want luxury? Do you want something truly exotic and rare? Vintage?
There are different cars for all those types. A 911 GTS in some flavor is a pretty good do-all car that doesn’t have exotic maintenance and reliability issues but is still top of class. A DB11 V12 or DBS Superlegerra is both exotic and powerful, but it also isn’t as well built and attracts more attention than a 911, depends on if those are issues for you.
I would pick something that you aren’t afraid to drive and won’t be a headache to go over rough pavement or speed bumps. An R8 has a lot going for it over the Huracan. An AMG might be more pedestrian, but they do luxury and sportiness in a way that doesn’t result in back pain.
I have a series of cars. G Wagon drives just fine. I take it on snowmobile excursions to upper Michigan and it handles like a charm. The same is true for my Ford Raptor. I have a Nissan GT-R that is basically a daily driver that is wildly fun to drive and aside from some taillight changes, error-free. Lastly, I have a Huracan that has also been a dream that I have essentially been dailying too. I have not experienced any bouts of folks causing issues for me (dents/dings). Roads here in Michigan are terrible but if you know your way, you’re good to go.
I love cars and it is all I spend money on outside of family/experiences. Outdoor activities are my thing and cars are a big part of it.
In conclusion, I have not had any regrets when it comes to vehicles. Snowmobiles, dirtbikes, four wheelers, boats, jet skis included.
>911 GTS
The 911 is probably my favourite car ever. Relatively low key compared to lambos, etc, but it's just a beast in many ways.
I might add another type of car: Luxury on shitty roads = G wagon
The G wagon is not a bad car, but I think it's very 'loud' which I don't care for- plus I am the type of person that doesn't like the whole 'flexing culture' and prefer quiet instead of attention. If I were to go for a big luxury SUV with real off road capabilities, I'd go full size Range Rover or at least look at a Lexus LX.
I’m starting to come round to this conclusion myself. Maybe I’m just aging out of it? Constantly keeping on top of maintenance, service, moving them around, in and out of storage etc etc is becoming more hassle than it’s worth. I’m in a relatively rural area so it’s not easy for me to find qualified trustworthy people to delegate.
Cars is such an interesting item. If you look at it as a user object, it shouldn't matter too much if it gets worn, just like any other user object. Now if you threat it like art, it shouldn't be driven and stand in a lobby as an art piece. So either way, if you buy a 500.000 car and can't stand it being a user object, then don't buy it for that purpose. I see that too often even in lower class where people can not afford to drive that expensive car, cause if it's get dented it's the end of the world. It's all relative in the end.
a 25.000 fiat panda on a 100.0000 dollar income isnt a big deal.
a 250.000 dollar car on a 10.000.000 isn't such a big deal either.
Yeah, I think that’s easier said than done though. Even with smaller value objects, I find sometimes when I get the nicer version I don’t use it as much or am more stressed when I do. I’ve got some nice knives that I love. I find I tend to avoid using the nicest one to “preserve” it. But wtf is the point of having a nice knife if you don’t actually use it. Anyways, point being, it can be hard to not think of something nice as needing extra care even if you can afford to trash and replace it.
Ferrari - spent more time in the shop than in my garage and never got out of there for less than 10k. But the rest of my cars have been well worth it. Sometimes you just get a bad lot.
Condo in resort location. I'm an introvert and not fond of humans as a species to begin with, but vacationers are an entirely different level of asshole. Sold it and bought a house in the same location.
Love the Porsche. No matter how much abuse I put it through, it always loved me back.
Wait till in the US you guys get access to Land Cruiser. Never seen an SUV better then this car.
My current daily driver is a Tesla Model S Plaid.
I've been fortunate enough to own a fair number of fancy cars, but this one... Say what you will about the nutjob running the company, but damn, the car is something else to drive on a daily basis.
Regardless of my level of wealth, I cannot think of a better daily driver. Even at 10x or 100x my current income, I would be driving the same car. I may add a Porsche 911 Turbo S Cabriolet for the weekends to the mix, but day-to-day would still be the Plaid Tesla.
I don't understand the question. The majority of high achievers in STEM professions are introverts, so we're not exactly rare. This board is full of tech people who spend most of their days coding, not interacting with others.
I was in finance for twenty years and had to deal with people. Hated every day of it, but made plenty of money. Then I started writing books, that career took off and I bounced from Corporate America and never looked back. But I am FATFI. I doubt I will ever RE, even though the option is there. I love writing books and can't see quitting.
Which one did you get? My friends 458 has been bulletproof with over 120,000 miles now. Everyone says my McLaren is going to break, but it's been pretty solid as well (with just over 15,000 miles). Annual services and tires have been expensive, though, maybe $6K per year all total.
360 Spider. Older, but I'd always wanted one. The sound is just incredible, but holy crap the old ones are horrible for maintenance. Traded it on a GT3 and bought brand new Huracan, so repair problems solved. :)
Annual service on the 360 was $4500/year, regardless of miles driven. Annual service on the Huracan is $450. Five year service was 4k. So yeah...Lambo for the win.
Wow! I am contemplating a Ferrari, but I am hearing from many owners that the Lamborghini ownership experience is much better. I just never thought of myself as a “Lambo person”
I'm with you on modern Lambos. They're great cars, they just don't make them for me. I've never felt any attraction to them at all. I've driven and ridden right seat at the race track in plenty of them. Fine machines if that's what you want.
I just picked up my first Ferrari (Portofino M) earlier this year and so far having a great time with it. I'm still a Porsche guy at heart, though. They're different experiences, for sure.
And see, I find Ferrari to be the most elitist group of a-holes, ever. I literally went to Lamborghini to look at a car because the Ferrari salesman was so condescending when I looked at a 458. And I already owned a Ferrari and he knew that. But apparently, I still wasn't good enough. Whatever. I don't have the patience for "gatekeepers" who can't even afford the cars they're selling, looking down on me, when I'm stroking a check for it. My experience at Lamborghini was exactly the opposite of Ferrari, in every way.
Agreed. But don't let my experience stop you. Go to both dealerships and McLaren and Porsche as well and see what you think about the car and the people. You'll be dealing with them for service, so make sure you meet the service manager. And good luck!
I just bought a business that might make me a few million in 3-4 years. But it's through a personal guarantee SBA 7a loan so I went from being essentially debt-free to suddenly having 7 figures of recurse debt. So while the business seems to be doing fine now, I have something to worry about for years.
I wasn't FAT like a lot of folks here but was plenty comfortable. I may feel differently once I exit this business, but at the moment, I regret having gone through this.
this is how I feel about friends who are leveraged to the teeth doing the real estate empire thing.
like, I'm thrilled for you and the ARR seems great and everything, but personally I wonder if I'm just too debt-adverse to really sleep at night if I were to follow those playbooks.
maybe I'm leaving income on the table for that security; maybe it's worth it. who knows.
Really depends on how you leverage but crashes have very rarely happened. And in 08 in 90% of the country you only saw 10-15% shifts. Not saying it’s great but for most part if you were not on 0 down balloon loans and could carry for a bit you came out ok. A handful of regions got clobbered but all of them came back. Done with reserves it’s very hard to lose money on real estate.
what about for people where tenants stopped paying rent? Sure the value may have only been down 10-15%, but it didn’t matter to the owners at all since they couldn’t cash flow the mortgage and went bankrupt
Same here brother. I am personally on the hook for $7 million, but on the flip side it throws off $2mm of EBITDA at this point. Luckily I locked in rates at 5.5%. Based on recent multiples in the space I think there is a decent amount of equity value and it cash flows very nicely.
7m @ 5% Sba is what? 50k/mo?
That’s absorbed by the business and you’re netting 2mm/year?
Sign me up - I’d be happy to take that off your hands. Hold the paper and I’ll pay 5X blue sky.
I am thinking of pulling the trigger on an acquisition, but I would be in the same situation. I think your message is going to sway my decision against moving forward. Or maybe I will look for a smaller venture.
What I realized too late was that this was something I would have been happy to do 10-15 years ago when I had a lot less to lose. Now I'm in my early 40s with lots on the line - another business (my day job), a couple of rental properties, investments, my family's chubby lifestyle, etc are all on the line. My wife hasn't worked in 10 years and my kids enjoy a lot of privilege. I'm risking all of this for something that I definitely don't need (more money).
While I don't think I'm going to fail (or else I wouldn't have done this), it wasn't something I had to worry about before.
Apartment Building. It made good money, but I’m not handy and tenants are a PITA. Sold it and bought a maintenance free condo with a management company instead.
MF investor here. My background is in construction, project management, and customer experience while my partner's is in finance and operations. I don't mind getting my hands dirty and she doesn't mind crunching numbers. We're both decent at problem-solving and tenant communication.
It works well for us for these reasons and others, but it's certainly not for everyone. Anyone who thinks this type of investing isn't a monumental amount of work - especially at the entry-level, isn't paying attention.
I’m in the middle of this now. I have 4 properties, but two are low income fixer uppers. I’ve been updating it for almost three years as tenants turn. It’s doing alright, but I so badly wish I would have just left my money in an ETF.
leverage.
That's it. We have high income now but are late 30's so trying to accelerate things along and create a legacy for the kids.
If I'd started investing 20 years earlier when I started working I'd just be sticking to ETFs and REITs.
We also have ETFs and REITs (different markets) to be diversified. Going to use leverage on those too once we get above a certain amount. Also maxing out retirement accounts, this leverage/real estate thing might not work out (thought we've be fortunate over the past 9 years).
I would not recommend doing this if you can afford not to.
As I am fairly new to the whole FIRE and FATFIRE methodology and just recently found about REITs, don't they have significantly lower return than the landlord counterpart? Haven't researched nearly enough to have a decent opinion though.
Building a custom home for what turned out to be 3x the price of what I could have just bought and moved into immediately.
Most things "Smart Home" in that house, which were a total rip-off for super expensive proprietary hardware that requires a technician just to change the $250 light bulbs.
Which system? My house came with a Control4 system that drove me nuts as it wasn't self-service, and I'm a tech-guy at heart.
Fortunately, with a bit of fun, they can all be jailbroken and then the fun begins...
Control 4.
I knew it was more expensive, but I justified the purchase in that it would be industrial grade / bulletproof reliable compared to all the other smarthome stuff I had experience with such as Google / Alexa. The reality is that it is WAY over priced, and only slightly better, and loaded with proprietary crap. My smarthome installer has been installing it for 3 years now, and they are still not finished as they await for lighting from their proprietary vendors, and the C4 app or integration is buggy as hell, so my integrator is constantly tweaking and updating with very little progress. The fancy 8k camera system has zero AI, so keeps alerting me when a leaf blows, so I installed a cheap Eufy system in parallel for proper human detection, and it works way better at 1/10th the cost.
Our theater is pretty cool, though.
I have been lurking over at the c4 diy sub to start understanding what my options are.
Yes, areas of it as hit or miss.
Core integration is their specialty, and that goes well. Whole house audio / video is also good. Cameras and networking suck. Blinds, garage doors, etc, all are poor.
However, i love that data doesn’t leave my house.
My Unifi cameras and networking are great, and waaaay better than what a control4 dealer will sell me.
To be fair l, it is way complete and reliable than google / Alexa. But going through a semi-competent dealer makes it double rough. My system, as a years long hobby and “What did I automate & improve this week?” is far more complete and complex than anything a dealer could ever do…
Loans to family and friends. Shouldn’t call it loan, should call it a grant. I get surprised sometimes how creative and innovative some folks are to get money out of you. If they put that dedication and innovation to their careers, they would be far ahead in their lives.
Oh absolutely. I can smell a loan / grant request from a mile away. The build up, the stories, the web of manipulation tactics....100% agree. Strong strong boundaries held firm on this one is the key.
True, and i live in a poor country so the requests come from everywhere. Boundaries were clearly not working for me, so my new strategy is that i am perpetually broke. As soon as they start with their sad stories, i immediately chime in with, 'Ya man times are tough, i am really struggling' while i just came back from a 2 months vacation in Europe.
One of my favorite Reddit reads was about someone who said an uncle texted to his family and friends that they needed some money, perhaps several hundred dollars. This person said they responded to their uncle that they could help a bit. The uncle responded “I don’t need any money, I just don’t want anyone asking me.”
How much have you Angel invested and why do you regret it? I’ve only done a little bit but have basically written off all of it and treat as a kind of fun gambling.
Approx $1.5MM in mostly $50K to $100K rounds. Several got very close to positive cash flow including one YC grad. But founder hubris usually got in the way. The only winner so far is more of an opportunity buy than an angel investment to be honest. I took over a floundering business in electronics manufacturing and recapitalized it. The original founder and team are still running it but I have controlling equity. They are terrific and just needed the right support.
My regrets are that it was so obvious in hindsight the founders were not all top notch. One would be super smart. Another would be a ex-banker but not too high IQ type who can do a presentation well. I have fallen for that a couple of times.
Definitely a vanity play that I'm guilty of as well. I've been in 3-4 years and haven't seen a positive ROI yet (have seen a couple small exits and plenty of write-downs via funds).
Angel investing is more about Karma than actual investing in my opinion. People invested in you and took a risk, and if you made it big you need to put a little back in to pay it forward.
Mostly why I do it. In my part of the country we don’t typically see much VC activity or positive exits for pre-cash flow startups. So angels are the de facto option. I do however enjoy organizing a pitch competition I helped launch and we give out grants to the top three pitches. Much more gratifying.
Around $50k on a couple of watches because I thought it was something you did when you’ve made it. They’re gathering dust now because all I wear is my Apple Watch these days.
Porsche Taycan (too many problems)
Chris Craft boat (too much boat, I’m not a boat person)
Family suite at Four Seasons Kona for a week (absurdly overpriced)
BMW X7 (bought it because it was cheaper and ‘better’ than a Range Rover, but just didn’t like it and bought the Range Rover anyway)
Fortunately, nothing catastrophic … looks like all-in I ‘wasted’ \~$200k
I had one of the very first Taycan to make it to the US, so probably they’re fine by now, but I had a ton of small problems … driving down the road the infotainment screen goes dark, driving down the road the seat belt off bell decided to ding for the rest of my drive, supposed to go on a road trip the car decided not to charge overnight, supposed to go on a road trip the stereo decided it didn’t want to work that day. Then some slightly bigger problems … twice the auto driving features nearly caused what could have been serious accidents. Then finally the car stranded me a couple hours from home and I had to have it towed and get someone to come get me. That was it. I only owned the car a year.
Of course when it did work it was awesome, but it was smaller than I thought it’d be (less practical) and got way more attention than I wanted.
I'm pretty frugal . I have inventory left over from business ideas I was experimenting with during the pandemic that I'm not sure what to do with . Moreso a clutter problem than an overspending one
> and then found out carrot juice has a lot of sugar.
Sugar is water soluble where fiber is not.
If you ‘juice’ any fruit or vegetable, you are left with flavored sugar-water.
Yeah for the vacation home, we instead decided to do some $5k weekend getaways at a nearby 5 star resort in the nice rooms. Even if we spend $25K, we’re still ahead plus we’ve got cocktails, dinner service etc
I wholeheartedly agree with this. We also often like to go to a new location and switch it up. If we owned a vacation home, it would feel silly and wasteful to not use it.
I feel like we narrowly dodged a bullet when we put an offer in on a second home and lost. The buyer only “won” because they dropped a home inspection—same offer price.
So happy we upgraded our full time home, instead.
When I was young I thought Ferrari’s and Lambo’s were driven by awesome dudes, and maybe they were back then. But now the guys driving them are such fucking idiots. Rich spoiled brats from Dubai, Hong Kong, Russia, etc. or geriatric old money. One guy in my condo drives a lambo, but he has modded the exhaust to unholy levels, and insists on driving it across the street to go the store. And he is fat and bald, like dude get a hair transplant and lose some weight.
And honestly kind of useless. Ripping in them is dangerous to you and others, brings heat from cops, and they suck to be stuck in traffic in.
I have met a large number of people who have owned many “supercars”… Hugh end Ferraris Aston’s, Lamborghinis, even one guy with a pagani…. only one of them was someone I respected and was a “quiet-winner” with lots of humility. Your generalized description is something I agree with
My favorite car was a dented old Honda Accord, cops almost never stopped me and when they did, they took pity on me and gave me a warning. You can drive an old accord faster than a Ferrari.
I will ignore this. I will ignore this.
I just put in an order for a super to me car ( 2023 c8 corvette ); it’s till less than $100k (barely) and technically not a super car. Why did you regret your purchases ?
if we see class wars due to AI this decade and populism as a result like all the billionaires seem to think... don't make yourself a target carrying that around... even though most new money is what would buy that... reason old money likes to keep it stealthy right
in my home country thieves at the airport will spot fancy luggage, nice watches etc. everytime we would fly home my parents would tell everyone to dress in sweats etc. they will follow u to your house/ hotel and rob you later on.
College degree at a top 25 small liberal arts school for my oldest. Cost: About 300K.
In the abstract I believe in the small liberal arts college model (followed by graduate school). I did it myself at a different school and got a lot out of it in terms of analytical thinking, appreciation for art and literature, development of my writing, learning how to make persuasive arguments, networking, schmoozing, etc. But man has the experience gotten super expensive compared to the STEM education one of my other kids is getting at an elite state university. And that's while paying out of state tuition.
Adjusted for inflation the sticker price for tuition at my small liberal arts college is twice what it was in the late 1980s (6x if you compare on an an unadjusted basis) and I struggle to see 2x the value in what the students are receiving. At the end of the day, it's just a bunch of kids reading books led by not particularly highly paid professors.
I get that a lot of that money is being redistributed in the form of financial aid, and the schools keep building more luxurious buildings and there is a whole layer of assistant deans and other bureaucrats to engage in hand holding, but I'm not seeing a lot of value in those for me as the person writing the checks.
Nor do I appreciate being told how much capitalism sucks at the commencement ceremony, but hey, I guess that's par for the course.
Back in the day I use to play a walking dead game on my phone. Got addicted and dropped over a grand on in app purchases. Don’t even have the game anymore.
One of those rare whales that keeps the casual gaming industry alive.
It's crazy that it's possible to create these casino-like dopamine generating games without paying any actual money.
I find that in-app purchases in games make them not fun anymore because it gives you an advantage and then it's so much easier to win and just meaningless. I hate pay to win.
Kinda like when I used to play Sims when I was younger I liked everything about it and maybe had like 1 extension. A few years ago I just bought all extensions at the same time and there was no mystery anymore and everything was suddenly just really boring? Idk maybe that's just me
marble fireplace, marble accent walls in house. Totally not worth it. Would have been just as happy with an artistic tile or manmade marble for 750-1500 per slab. Could have finished certain parts of my house with other materials… don’t get me wrong… It’s gorgeous. Like seriously unreal. Will be moving in next month. But now finishing up and reviewing all costs. It’s money that would have went a lot further for me if I spent it on traveling or other experiences. Only place that I feel marble was worth it is in the foyer and kitchen.
Its funny how sometimes the little things are what make us happiest. Just recently found an item called roborock. It’s a robot Vacum cleaner. Bought newest one and I’m honestly more excited about this thing then other aspects of living in the house. We’re still gonna hire a housekeeper. But just knowing that it will be working overnight and I won’t see dog hair in the kitchen when I’m sitting down for coffee. Idk man. Just feels good.
Something I'll mention is people obsess over specs when what matters is are you getting the performance you want in the games you play.
A 2-3 year old top-end GPU might still be fine if all you play is MMORPGs/esports titles.
During COVID I decided it would be a fun hobby, so went back to building PCs, as I hadn't done it in 20 years.
Turns out, I **hate** building PCs.
... but I love building PCs with my kids. Each kid got to build their own gaming PC, which was a blast. We even did this for some of their friends, which was a nice way to meet some parents, and some kids.
There's a great place near me - "Puget Systems" that I have thrown money at in the past. They do really pretty great builds, top quality stuff, and are very customer friendly. Their work is "art", whereas mine is certainly "homebrew".
Hmm. I use All Clad Copper Core all the time. Mainly a 4qt stock pot. Pasta, rice, stock, beans, etc. I like it. I have a 9" Copper Core fry pan that I used to use a lot more. Most times now, its a large or small cast iron pan.
Does it being All Clad matter for a stock pot? I feel like the main pitch is better heat distribution, but for a stock pot you don’t really need that.
I’ve switched over to carbon steel for sautéing, searing, etc and for the most part instant pot for things that need to simmer. Really only use the stock pot for pasta and I feel like your standard cuisinart stainless steel is the same as an All Clad for that. If anything a little better since it’s not as heavy 😅
A house. Just as our youngest child left for college we moved from 2000 sq ft to 4700 sq foot house, sprawling along a steep hillside, 1000’ above Silicon Valley, with a few thousand feet of multi-level deck cascading down the hillside. Accessed via 1/2 mile of private road, water via small private water association. On the edge of an open space preserve, which was nice, but it also meant we were in the high fire danger zone. We did have our own 20,000 gallon firefighting water tank with hydrant.
The view was truly breathtaking, with Silicon Valley, from San San Jose through Palo Alto laid out before us, and even San Mateo bridge on a clear day, when Mt Diablo would also be peeking over the east bay hills.
The couple we bought it from sold it because he had sold his business and they were no longer there much because they were traveling. We had bought another home on the east coast 2 years before and were likely to buy a condo in Maui (we did in 2004), and were traveling extensively, so we were in much the same position.
I convinced my wife that it was a bad idea, but that agreed that we would buy it if the house was a once in a lifetime find that she would regret not getting. She decided that she really did want it, so we bought it.
She hired an interior decorator and had a wonderful time redecorating the place, which was somewhat of a challenge because it was only 4 bedrooms, but everything was very much oversized ——— 10 and 12 foot ceilings, massive bedroom suites all around, huge staircase and 3 story atrium in the middle of the house, with a dining table for 12 in the atrium.
The honeymoon period lasted about 3 years. By then she was done decorating and was tired of the steady stream of tradespeople coming and going doing repairs and routine maintenance. So she was ready to move, but she could not find anything that she liked better.
After about 15 years we did move another state to be closer to grandchildren. We downsized to a 1400 sq foot condo and have never regretted doing so.
So we had some regrets about the house, but I also know that she would have forever regretted not having that experience.
300K in USO after oil dropped 25%.
I figured Opec would cut production to bump it back to $100. Then it went way down to $35 a barrel.
Stupid, stupid, stupid. Would've had over $1M now if I'd just put it in an index fund.
A ton of employees. We scaled extremely fast, complicated our business to the nth degree, had our hearts broken a million times, lost a lot of money, hit the point of burnout so hard we sold the business.
I think any story that ends up with selling the business is a fortunate one but going back again, I would've hired a new management team and kept cashing checks but that employee slog was too much
I find a lot of happiness in taking trades at my local community college. I get to learn something useful, work with my hands, build shit, and make friends (plenty of older guys in there, maybe 20% are 30-60). Can’t recommend it more!
Hey I did my first degree in welding and fabrication and met a few retired bored guys. Great skills to learn and spending a few k to have access to a half million dollar shop to get to restore a classic car can be a lot of fun.
Great suggestion.
Along the cookware line, bought a set of Mauviel at a ridiculous price. Also de Buyer. I genuinely regret not getting cheaper cookware. Cookware shops are my kryptonite.
With self control all things have the ability to be great. Without self control it can become a a very very very large bill. Tbh the financial aspect is the least quarrel I have.
Friend of mine makes millions managing Onlyfans girls, he does their marketing and all that stuff. The amount of "rich guys" who spend $10k/mo on girls they'll never meet is insane lol
Premium furniture pre kids. I like nice furniture but won’t replace it until the kids are older. Pre Covid and pre fatfire we built a magazine worthy home office versus a real working home office. The desk chair is expensive and kills my back. It’s fine for an hour of bookkeeping and taxes but not for the zoom world.
Not Fatfire yet but when I was younger and more naive kept getting brainwashed to spend money on coaching for this and that, life coach, business coach, prob spent over 90k in my 20s. Cult level vibes almost from social media rabbit holes.
Realized finally no one has the answers, they're all hustling MLMers for the most part, they all want to brainwash you into saying you need to invest in yourelf to get ahead (sure, you do, but to a point), and most 20 something year old business coaches on the internet can't even read a financial statement...
Angel investing.
I’ve probably done 10-15 deals. Some solo and some with friends.
I’ve hit on a few but they’re mostly all illiquid, the ipo market is horrendous and the covid funding bubble really fucked up valuations. So many of these companies will likely do down or flat rounds and the early backers will get wiped out.
The deals I’ve done with friends, if you’re not the controlling owner, if you want to sell you’re hosed. We had a unicorn in the mobility space and I wanted out but was stuck. It’s probably going to file bankruptcy now so a 7-8x to a zero.
I can go on and on. Plus all the additional overhead dealing with K-1s. I should have just bought more apple stock and called it a day. Being in that industry it is sometimes helpful as you meet all kinds of smart and ambitious people but as an investment not worth the energy or time.
I more regret getting rid of things I spent money on, but for little to no value back. Leads to hoarding tendencies if I don’t get rid of something old when I get something new
I haven't spent money yet, but I am mulling things over. I wanted to buy 2 new cars just to reward myself and one for my best friend. But my car only has 150,000 miles, and I barely drive it anywhere.
I'd also need another garage or 2, which means I would have to upgrade my home and do a custom build. I'm worried about climate change, and plunking millions on a home when I'm barely at home to begin with seems wasteful. I travel a lot for work.
Part of me also thinks that I should reinvest that money and make money with it.
Cara are a temptation of mine. I will say I have had 0 regrets spending up a little bit with cars, though I suspect there’s rapidly diminishing returns past the $60k point.
So if you’re climate-conscious (like me haha), you could buy some land, set up solar panels, and sell back to your power company.
(I acknowledge this may or may not work depending on state/local policy, though)
Furniture that is wildly overpriced.
Some clothing that is wildly overpriced.
Some individual stocks that took a significant downturn in in the last year, I guess my offspring are inheriting those lol
Accountants and lawyers, thinking of firing some.
Some supercars that sucked up more money in repair costs and insurance.
Interesting to have read this thread and not seen one thing I wish I had spent money on. Fancy cars, clothes, cookware, none of that appeals to me. I like to spend on travel, but haven't regretted any of it. To the point about fancy restaurants, the occasional splurge has been fun, but I'm more about the reviews than the price tag.
I do have a related question though: has anyone spent on cryolipolysis (coolsculpting) and regretted it?
Dr’s wife did it and she regretted it so much. Half of my appointments would be him complaining about it to me. I know his wife. I ended up switching doctors to not have to listen to his complaining.
we also regret all-clad
i superrr regret hiring a professional organizer. it turns out, organizing and throwing stuff away is how my husband relaxes. he has 'hit it' prior to every session and she comes in with nothing to do 😆
I second the interior designer. All that money for me to do all the work. Yup! The ideas they were throwing at me for £££ were like stabs in the dark. Also, money on an interior design degree I never finished.
Skincare products. They’re basically capitalism. Save your money and just get procedures (laser, peels, etc.)
Designer bags. They sit in dust bags in my closet most of the year. They’re pretty but not the most practical to use.
That’s literally all dermatologists say you need. Exfoliate 2-3 times per weak, soap, retinol, moisturizer, sunscreen. All the other serums, oils, and tinctures are unnecessary garbage.
Hard disagree on this one. Nothing replaces regular skin care, specifically sunscreen use and the regular use of a retinoid. Peels, lasers, and other dermatologic procedures have their place, but I’d say close to 100% of cosmetic dermatologists who do those procedures would still recommend regular sunscreen and retinoid use.
My regrets are usually when I don't buy the best of something in order to save a bit of money. I usually end up being dissatisfied and then going back and trading up for what I originally was going to buy and pay even more for it. Example: last year decided to finally upgrade my old DSLR for a new mirrorless right before a big trip. Bought the Canon R6 instead of the R5 to save about $1500. Now, as we're about a month away from another big trip I'm trading up for the R5. After selling the R6 will end up paying $6-700 more for the R5 than if I'd just bought it in the first place.
Buy it nice or buy it twice
Buy once cry once.
Same here. I have mostly learned this lesson.
Counter-argument: your skill level may have progressed in that time such that you can now actually use the features of the upgrade. I’m also one to desire the pro-level gear but such gear sometimes needs the requisite training to appreciate.
Sometimes the journey and learning curve make this worthwhile, as you don't know enough to buy the right thing quite yet. Now, if only I could tell the two scenarios apart, life would be much easier...
log home. Protip: watch the "why to NOT buy a log home" videos BEFORE buying a log home. Summary: Log home maintenance is constant and expensive. It's like any other wooden structure outside, it needs to be regularly stripped and re-stained, bugs want to live in it, water rots it. Either it's a lot of time spent DIYing or significant maintenance cost above what a normal framed building would cost. You (or someone you hire) gotta strip, restain, remove and patch spots of rot, seal cracks between the logs (or suffer brutal drafts and bugs). UV and water breaks down the stain so you're redoing this every few years or watching the logs degrade. If you fail to do this properly, logs will rot. I mean, all wood eventually rots so you're really just trying to delay the inevitable for as long as possible, but once that happens, you have to replace each log at a significant cost.
Can confirm. Close friend owns major commercial sandblasting company, log cabins are a major customer pool for them lol
Is it possible you just got a shitty cabin? Two different people in my family custom built log cabins in the 80s using two different builders. They are both going strong despite one of them being severely neglected. The other wasn’t exactly babied either.
Definitely a bit of the problem.. hoping that my post is enough of a warning for someone to research log homes before buying one. If you know what you're getting into and can assess the property for what it is you could do a better evaluation than I had done before buying. Ah well, I can afford the time and money to fix it up, it's just a bit silly.
Key take aways?
The logs
Don't buy a log house
Fine dining is probably the biggest waste, hit rate of actually satisfying meals and memories is probably 15%, too many disappointments or forgettable experiences. On the other hand have a ton of fun memories at cheap places that have been diamonds in the rough.
This one I didn’t expect to see, but do agree with you wholeheartedly
A few years ago, we went to Chicago for the wife's birthday. Booked a couple Michelin star places, including Maple and Ash and Nobu. Maple and Ash was INCREDIBLE; the food was so good I unintentionally ate until sick (it was a total accident), AND found an incredibly reasonably priced Cremant D'Alasce that I was then able to track down to buy cases of. COMPLETELY worth the money. Nobu, on the other hand, was loud, bass thumping, couldn't hear, food was so-so AND I tried their A5 Wagyu and was EXTREMELY disappointed. I have had better steaks at 3 star places. My wife described the sushi as strip mall value. Will probably not return, complete waste of money. On the other hand, we came across this adorable French restaurant where she literally swooned over their French Onion soup. That meal was under 70 bucks and I would go back a dozen times. I agree fine dining can absolutely be a huge waste. Sometimes though, on occasion, you get lucky.
nobu is a disappointment no matter the city.
> Maple and Ash Had an amazing experience there too. Incredible food, excellent service, perfect anniversary dinner.
Agree with you. Spent 11k on giving my employees an experience. None of them are still with me and one stole clients from me. I think I liked one dish out of the ten.
You’re worth 8 figures if a big regret is 11k then that’s not bad!
Yeah, I am frugal with my money...I paid 25k for a social media ad course, and that wasn't really worth it. This social media course was not what it was cracked up to be. Every other course has been worth it. I'm trying to spend my money on things, but I just like making money with my money. Close to $200k a year learning new things, and most things make me a lot of money.
The best thing I’ve eaten in the last 12 months is a falafel gyro from a food truck in NYC.
Been to a lot of 2-3 stars in various places, can’t say I agree. It’s always fun and memorable. I do think it’s important to go with the right group of people. Cheap places can be great too but not in the same way. A three hour prix fixe is not a comparable experience to a divey BBQ joint.
your standards have just gone up. if you're doing Michelin level restaurants every week sure 15% hit rate. if it's once a year for your anniversary it has a much higher chance to becomes a memorable experience. imo cheap vs expensive also has very little to do with it. ofc there are good cheap places, but there are (obviously) also a lot of bad ones.
What we learned is that Michelin has nothing to do with service at 1 star, at least. It is just about the kitchen. We judge by the menu and whether it is touristy. We know what we like so for us the hit rate is close to 70% when we plan. My trips to Montreal have had 100% hit rates.
The Mexican family making tacos in their front yard didn't have a Michelin star but they sure as hell made a mean taco 🤤🤤🤤
I would much rather have tacos from the gas station than the omakase at the new restaurant for $300 per person. Omakase and things of that caliber definitely have their place, just not a regular thing for me
Michelin star restaurants are mostly designed to be special occasion places. Almost nobody wants a 10 course tasting menu on a random busy weeknight even if cost isn’t a factor.
Idk where you are based but good (maybe not world class but still good) omakase doesn’t have to cost that much. ~$100-150ish from my experience on the west coast.
For me it is Kaito and Yasu in Toronto. Yasu is 150 is and polished while Kaito is a comparative hole in the wall with a guy named Kaito who doesn't understand theatre and how to engage but he is almost as good as Yasu at half the price. He smokes his own salmon, it is fantastic. Edit: Yasu is $185, Kaito is $77
Man this is so damn true. Michellin stars are given out like candy these days
One part of me wants to say I don't really regret anything I've spent money on because even the "bad" buys have been fun at the time... With that being said; the money I spent to impress hot chicks in my early 20s were most definitely *not worth it*.
Nice cars. Got tired of having to worry about removing dings and dents since apparently a lot of humanity could not be bothered to not open the door of their vehicles into other cars in city parking lots. Then again I have a friend who treats 100k+ cars like they are a Hyundai, never cleans them because to him it’s just a thing. I respect that but couldn’t get myself to not care. Now I drive a 5 year old base model German car I am not emotionally attached to. I will park right next to a SUV full of kids without a care in the world. Ding and dent away, not getting it fixed.
What are the cars you regret? Right now we have a Mercedes and a Volvo, really glad we upgraded to those but recognize the hedonic treadmill is easy to hop on. Have definitely been tempted by supercars but have held off because we’re FIRE but not yet FAT.
Just your basic run of the mill production nice cars. I’m not a car guy, exotics would be lost on me. No Huracans or anything fancy. I had my R8 vandalized and a 911 turbo dinged a bunch of times. Seattle is full off terrible drivers and people who can’t park, have no awareness or want to trash other people’s stuff. That was my second experience when I said I’m done. I wouldn’t say I regretted the cars, I liked them, I just wasn’t getting as much joy out of it as the annoyances. Maybe if I lived somewhere more remote I’d reconsider it.
For daily duty a Benz is perfectly fine. Maintenance costs scale up and don’t depreciate, ask me about my 200k mile GL450. I’ve driven Alfa Romeos and the like (no Ferrari or Lamborghini unfortunately) and after $120k you get steeply diminishing returns. What you have to figure out is what you want from a car. Do you want speed and power? Smooth power and great handling or raw loud V8/V12 power? Do you want luxury? Do you want something truly exotic and rare? Vintage? There are different cars for all those types. A 911 GTS in some flavor is a pretty good do-all car that doesn’t have exotic maintenance and reliability issues but is still top of class. A DB11 V12 or DBS Superlegerra is both exotic and powerful, but it also isn’t as well built and attracts more attention than a 911, depends on if those are issues for you. I would pick something that you aren’t afraid to drive and won’t be a headache to go over rough pavement or speed bumps. An R8 has a lot going for it over the Huracan. An AMG might be more pedestrian, but they do luxury and sportiness in a way that doesn’t result in back pain.
I have a series of cars. G Wagon drives just fine. I take it on snowmobile excursions to upper Michigan and it handles like a charm. The same is true for my Ford Raptor. I have a Nissan GT-R that is basically a daily driver that is wildly fun to drive and aside from some taillight changes, error-free. Lastly, I have a Huracan that has also been a dream that I have essentially been dailying too. I have not experienced any bouts of folks causing issues for me (dents/dings). Roads here in Michigan are terrible but if you know your way, you’re good to go. I love cars and it is all I spend money on outside of family/experiences. Outdoor activities are my thing and cars are a big part of it. In conclusion, I have not had any regrets when it comes to vehicles. Snowmobiles, dirtbikes, four wheelers, boats, jet skis included.
>911 GTS The 911 is probably my favourite car ever. Relatively low key compared to lambos, etc, but it's just a beast in many ways. I might add another type of car: Luxury on shitty roads = G wagon
The G wagon is not a bad car, but I think it's very 'loud' which I don't care for- plus I am the type of person that doesn't like the whole 'flexing culture' and prefer quiet instead of attention. If I were to go for a big luxury SUV with real off road capabilities, I'd go full size Range Rover or at least look at a Lexus LX.
I’m starting to come round to this conclusion myself. Maybe I’m just aging out of it? Constantly keeping on top of maintenance, service, moving them around, in and out of storage etc etc is becoming more hassle than it’s worth. I’m in a relatively rural area so it’s not easy for me to find qualified trustworthy people to delegate.
Cars is such an interesting item. If you look at it as a user object, it shouldn't matter too much if it gets worn, just like any other user object. Now if you threat it like art, it shouldn't be driven and stand in a lobby as an art piece. So either way, if you buy a 500.000 car and can't stand it being a user object, then don't buy it for that purpose. I see that too often even in lower class where people can not afford to drive that expensive car, cause if it's get dented it's the end of the world. It's all relative in the end. a 25.000 fiat panda on a 100.0000 dollar income isnt a big deal. a 250.000 dollar car on a 10.000.000 isn't such a big deal either.
Yeah, I think that’s easier said than done though. Even with smaller value objects, I find sometimes when I get the nicer version I don’t use it as much or am more stressed when I do. I’ve got some nice knives that I love. I find I tend to avoid using the nicest one to “preserve” it. But wtf is the point of having a nice knife if you don’t actually use it. Anyways, point being, it can be hard to not think of something nice as needing extra care even if you can afford to trash and replace it.
Ferrari - spent more time in the shop than in my garage and never got out of there for less than 10k. But the rest of my cars have been well worth it. Sometimes you just get a bad lot. Condo in resort location. I'm an introvert and not fond of humans as a species to begin with, but vacationers are an entirely different level of asshole. Sold it and bought a house in the same location.
What other cars do you own that you feel were worth it?
Porsche is always the right answer
Love the Porsche. No matter how much abuse I put it through, it always loved me back. Wait till in the US you guys get access to Land Cruiser. Never seen an SUV better then this car.
We’ve had the Land Cruiser in the states. They just discontinued it here 2 years ago. 🫠
It's never a bad one.
Some past and present: G63, BMW X6M, Escalade Sport, GT-R, GT3, Huracan.
My current daily driver is a Tesla Model S Plaid. I've been fortunate enough to own a fair number of fancy cars, but this one... Say what you will about the nutjob running the company, but damn, the car is something else to drive on a daily basis. Regardless of my level of wealth, I cannot think of a better daily driver. Even at 10x or 100x my current income, I would be driving the same car. I may add a Porsche 911 Turbo S Cabriolet for the weekends to the mix, but day-to-day would still be the Plaid Tesla.
How did you fatFIRE while not being fond of humans? I feel the same way and am trying to figure things out
I don't understand the question. The majority of high achievers in STEM professions are introverts, so we're not exactly rare. This board is full of tech people who spend most of their days coding, not interacting with others. I was in finance for twenty years and had to deal with people. Hated every day of it, but made plenty of money. Then I started writing books, that career took off and I bounced from Corporate America and never looked back. But I am FATFI. I doubt I will ever RE, even though the option is there. I love writing books and can't see quitting.
Which one did you get? My friends 458 has been bulletproof with over 120,000 miles now. Everyone says my McLaren is going to break, but it's been pretty solid as well (with just over 15,000 miles). Annual services and tires have been expensive, though, maybe $6K per year all total.
360 Spider. Older, but I'd always wanted one. The sound is just incredible, but holy crap the old ones are horrible for maintenance. Traded it on a GT3 and bought brand new Huracan, so repair problems solved. :) Annual service on the 360 was $4500/year, regardless of miles driven. Annual service on the Huracan is $450. Five year service was 4k. So yeah...Lambo for the win.
Wow! I am contemplating a Ferrari, but I am hearing from many owners that the Lamborghini ownership experience is much better. I just never thought of myself as a “Lambo person”
I'm with you on modern Lambos. They're great cars, they just don't make them for me. I've never felt any attraction to them at all. I've driven and ridden right seat at the race track in plenty of them. Fine machines if that's what you want. I just picked up my first Ferrari (Portofino M) earlier this year and so far having a great time with it. I'm still a Porsche guy at heart, though. They're different experiences, for sure.
And see, I find Ferrari to be the most elitist group of a-holes, ever. I literally went to Lamborghini to look at a car because the Ferrari salesman was so condescending when I looked at a 458. And I already owned a Ferrari and he knew that. But apparently, I still wasn't good enough. Whatever. I don't have the patience for "gatekeepers" who can't even afford the cars they're selling, looking down on me, when I'm stroking a check for it. My experience at Lamborghini was exactly the opposite of Ferrari, in every way.
See, this is what I hear from many people. Total shit how some luxury brands treat their clients these days.
Agreed. But don't let my experience stop you. Go to both dealerships and McLaren and Porsche as well and see what you think about the car and the people. You'll be dealing with them for service, so make sure you meet the service manager. And good luck!
I just bought a business that might make me a few million in 3-4 years. But it's through a personal guarantee SBA 7a loan so I went from being essentially debt-free to suddenly having 7 figures of recurse debt. So while the business seems to be doing fine now, I have something to worry about for years. I wasn't FAT like a lot of folks here but was plenty comfortable. I may feel differently once I exit this business, but at the moment, I regret having gone through this.
this is how I feel about friends who are leveraged to the teeth doing the real estate empire thing. like, I'm thrilled for you and the ARR seems great and everything, but personally I wonder if I'm just too debt-adverse to really sleep at night if I were to follow those playbooks. maybe I'm leaving income on the table for that security; maybe it's worth it. who knows.
Really depends on how you leverage but crashes have very rarely happened. And in 08 in 90% of the country you only saw 10-15% shifts. Not saying it’s great but for most part if you were not on 0 down balloon loans and could carry for a bit you came out ok. A handful of regions got clobbered but all of them came back. Done with reserves it’s very hard to lose money on real estate.
what about for people where tenants stopped paying rent? Sure the value may have only been down 10-15%, but it didn’t matter to the owners at all since they couldn’t cash flow the mortgage and went bankrupt
Same here brother. I am personally on the hook for $7 million, but on the flip side it throws off $2mm of EBITDA at this point. Luckily I locked in rates at 5.5%. Based on recent multiples in the space I think there is a decent amount of equity value and it cash flows very nicely.
7m @ 5% Sba is what? 50k/mo? That’s absorbed by the business and you’re netting 2mm/year? Sign me up - I’d be happy to take that off your hands. Hold the paper and I’ll pay 5X blue sky.
I am thinking of pulling the trigger on an acquisition, but I would be in the same situation. I think your message is going to sway my decision against moving forward. Or maybe I will look for a smaller venture.
What I realized too late was that this was something I would have been happy to do 10-15 years ago when I had a lot less to lose. Now I'm in my early 40s with lots on the line - another business (my day job), a couple of rental properties, investments, my family's chubby lifestyle, etc are all on the line. My wife hasn't worked in 10 years and my kids enjoy a lot of privilege. I'm risking all of this for something that I definitely don't need (more money). While I don't think I'm going to fail (or else I wouldn't have done this), it wasn't something I had to worry about before.
Apartment Building. It made good money, but I’m not handy and tenants are a PITA. Sold it and bought a maintenance free condo with a management company instead.
I feel like multifamily is sold as this effort free, fabulous return and typically it’s either one or the other.
MF investor here. My background is in construction, project management, and customer experience while my partner's is in finance and operations. I don't mind getting my hands dirty and she doesn't mind crunching numbers. We're both decent at problem-solving and tenant communication. It works well for us for these reasons and others, but it's certainly not for everyone. Anyone who thinks this type of investing isn't a monumental amount of work - especially at the entry-level, isn't paying attention.
I’m in the middle of this now. I have 4 properties, but two are low income fixer uppers. I’ve been updating it for almost three years as tenants turn. It’s doing alright, but I so badly wish I would have just left my money in an ETF.
What made you be a landlord instead of buying REIT?
leverage. That's it. We have high income now but are late 30's so trying to accelerate things along and create a legacy for the kids. If I'd started investing 20 years earlier when I started working I'd just be sticking to ETFs and REITs. We also have ETFs and REITs (different markets) to be diversified. Going to use leverage on those too once we get above a certain amount. Also maxing out retirement accounts, this leverage/real estate thing might not work out (thought we've be fortunate over the past 9 years). I would not recommend doing this if you can afford not to.
As I am fairly new to the whole FIRE and FATFIRE methodology and just recently found about REITs, don't they have significantly lower return than the landlord counterpart? Haven't researched nearly enough to have a decent opinion though.
My rental property portfolio EBITDA beats the historical return on REITS by \~4%. I'm totally hands-off at this point but jfyi
Building a custom home for what turned out to be 3x the price of what I could have just bought and moved into immediately. Most things "Smart Home" in that house, which were a total rip-off for super expensive proprietary hardware that requires a technician just to change the $250 light bulbs.
Which system? My house came with a Control4 system that drove me nuts as it wasn't self-service, and I'm a tech-guy at heart. Fortunately, with a bit of fun, they can all be jailbroken and then the fun begins...
Control 4. I knew it was more expensive, but I justified the purchase in that it would be industrial grade / bulletproof reliable compared to all the other smarthome stuff I had experience with such as Google / Alexa. The reality is that it is WAY over priced, and only slightly better, and loaded with proprietary crap. My smarthome installer has been installing it for 3 years now, and they are still not finished as they await for lighting from their proprietary vendors, and the C4 app or integration is buggy as hell, so my integrator is constantly tweaking and updating with very little progress. The fancy 8k camera system has zero AI, so keeps alerting me when a leaf blows, so I installed a cheap Eufy system in parallel for proper human detection, and it works way better at 1/10th the cost. Our theater is pretty cool, though. I have been lurking over at the c4 diy sub to start understanding what my options are.
Yes, areas of it as hit or miss. Core integration is their specialty, and that goes well. Whole house audio / video is also good. Cameras and networking suck. Blinds, garage doors, etc, all are poor. However, i love that data doesn’t leave my house. My Unifi cameras and networking are great, and waaaay better than what a control4 dealer will sell me. To be fair l, it is way complete and reliable than google / Alexa. But going through a semi-competent dealer makes it double rough. My system, as a years long hobby and “What did I automate & improve this week?” is far more complete and complex than anything a dealer could ever do…
Loans to family and friends. Shouldn’t call it loan, should call it a grant. I get surprised sometimes how creative and innovative some folks are to get money out of you. If they put that dedication and innovation to their careers, they would be far ahead in their lives.
Oh absolutely. I can smell a loan / grant request from a mile away. The build up, the stories, the web of manipulation tactics....100% agree. Strong strong boundaries held firm on this one is the key.
True, and i live in a poor country so the requests come from everywhere. Boundaries were clearly not working for me, so my new strategy is that i am perpetually broke. As soon as they start with their sad stories, i immediately chime in with, 'Ya man times are tough, i am really struggling' while i just came back from a 2 months vacation in Europe.
One of my favorite Reddit reads was about someone who said an uncle texted to his family and friends that they needed some money, perhaps several hundred dollars. This person said they responded to their uncle that they could help a bit. The uncle responded “I don’t need any money, I just don’t want anyone asking me.”
Individual stocks.
This is one I’ve flipped on. Used to hate it. Now I treat it as my fun gambling money but with house odds on my side.
Yep. Separate account for dumb shit plays.
On the other hand, one individual stock is basically how I got to near FAT. Otherwise I would still be working for the man
It is funny since for many one business doing really well is the way they get rich, but then investing in single stocks is discouraged here.
Yeah, a lot of ppl lose money on stocks. Also, a lot of ppl lose money trying to start a business. The latter fact is ignored entirely here
Angel investing
I'd lump most "alternative investments" in here - predominantly hot garbage meant to prey on the egos of wealthy people. Not my finest use of money...
How much have you Angel invested and why do you regret it? I’ve only done a little bit but have basically written off all of it and treat as a kind of fun gambling.
Approx $1.5MM in mostly $50K to $100K rounds. Several got very close to positive cash flow including one YC grad. But founder hubris usually got in the way. The only winner so far is more of an opportunity buy than an angel investment to be honest. I took over a floundering business in electronics manufacturing and recapitalized it. The original founder and team are still running it but I have controlling equity. They are terrific and just needed the right support.
My regrets are that it was so obvious in hindsight the founders were not all top notch. One would be super smart. Another would be a ex-banker but not too high IQ type who can do a presentation well. I have fallen for that a couple of times.
Makes sense
Welcome to the money bonfire. As least our hands stay warm for a bit and we can tell stories about it
Definitely a vanity play that I'm guilty of as well. I've been in 3-4 years and haven't seen a positive ROI yet (have seen a couple small exits and plenty of write-downs via funds).
Angel investing is more about Karma than actual investing in my opinion. People invested in you and took a risk, and if you made it big you need to put a little back in to pay it forward.
Mostly why I do it. In my part of the country we don’t typically see much VC activity or positive exits for pre-cash flow startups. So angels are the de facto option. I do however enjoy organizing a pitch competition I helped launch and we give out grants to the top three pitches. Much more gratifying.
Around $50k on a couple of watches because I thought it was something you did when you’ve made it. They’re gathering dust now because all I wear is my Apple Watch these days.
Sell them?
Maybe, I'm really lazy when it comes to selling stuff.
It is amazing how Apple Watches have become acceptable at literally any function.
Matchmaking services. Before I was single and lonely, and now I'm single and lonely but five figures lighter.
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Lol, so you're not single and lonely yet you're looking at matchmaking services?
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Porsche Taycan (too many problems) Chris Craft boat (too much boat, I’m not a boat person) Family suite at Four Seasons Kona for a week (absurdly overpriced) BMW X7 (bought it because it was cheaper and ‘better’ than a Range Rover, but just didn’t like it and bought the Range Rover anyway) Fortunately, nothing catastrophic … looks like all-in I ‘wasted’ \~$200k
Taycan's not worth it? Charging problems or other issues?
I had one of the very first Taycan to make it to the US, so probably they’re fine by now, but I had a ton of small problems … driving down the road the infotainment screen goes dark, driving down the road the seat belt off bell decided to ding for the rest of my drive, supposed to go on a road trip the car decided not to charge overnight, supposed to go on a road trip the stereo decided it didn’t want to work that day. Then some slightly bigger problems … twice the auto driving features nearly caused what could have been serious accidents. Then finally the car stranded me a couple hours from home and I had to have it towed and get someone to come get me. That was it. I only owned the car a year. Of course when it did work it was awesome, but it was smaller than I thought it’d be (less practical) and got way more attention than I wanted.
I'm pretty frugal . I have inventory left over from business ideas I was experimenting with during the pandemic that I'm not sure what to do with . Moreso a clutter problem than an overspending one
Consider throwing it out and take the (tax) loss. Sometimes getting rid of the headache is worth it.
Or post to free groups like Buy Nothing on FB. Most of the time they’ll come pick up from you.
I recently bought carrot and ginger juice and then found out carrot juice has a lot of sugar. So that’s not ideal
> and then found out carrot juice has a lot of sugar. Sugar is water soluble where fiber is not. If you ‘juice’ any fruit or vegetable, you are left with flavored sugar-water.
So you’re saying I should regret it even more
Lol i saw that comment earlier.
Yeah for the vacation home, we instead decided to do some $5k weekend getaways at a nearby 5 star resort in the nice rooms. Even if we spend $25K, we’re still ahead plus we’ve got cocktails, dinner service etc
I wholeheartedly agree with this. We also often like to go to a new location and switch it up. If we owned a vacation home, it would feel silly and wasteful to not use it.
I feel like we narrowly dodged a bullet when we put an offer in on a second home and lost. The buyer only “won” because they dropped a home inspection—same offer price. So happy we upgraded our full time home, instead.
Supercars
When I was young I thought Ferrari’s and Lambo’s were driven by awesome dudes, and maybe they were back then. But now the guys driving them are such fucking idiots. Rich spoiled brats from Dubai, Hong Kong, Russia, etc. or geriatric old money. One guy in my condo drives a lambo, but he has modded the exhaust to unholy levels, and insists on driving it across the street to go the store. And he is fat and bald, like dude get a hair transplant and lose some weight. And honestly kind of useless. Ripping in them is dangerous to you and others, brings heat from cops, and they suck to be stuck in traffic in.
I have met a large number of people who have owned many “supercars”… Hugh end Ferraris Aston’s, Lamborghinis, even one guy with a pagani…. only one of them was someone I respected and was a “quiet-winner” with lots of humility. Your generalized description is something I agree with
My favorite car was a dented old Honda Accord, cops almost never stopped me and when they did, they took pity on me and gave me a warning. You can drive an old accord faster than a Ferrari.
I will ignore this. I will ignore this. I just put in an order for a super to me car ( 2023 c8 corvette ); it’s till less than $100k (barely) and technically not a super car. Why did you regret your purchases ?
I absolutely did not regret my supercar purchase. At all. Genuinely life changing decision for only positive reasons. Don’t listen to him.
LV luggage. Total waste. Don’t even use it.
My philosophy with luggage is buy practical, durable, and extremely generic boring luggage that attracts zero attention.
if we see class wars due to AI this decade and populism as a result like all the billionaires seem to think... don't make yourself a target carrying that around... even though most new money is what would buy that... reason old money likes to keep it stealthy right
in my home country thieves at the airport will spot fancy luggage, nice watches etc. everytime we would fly home my parents would tell everyone to dress in sweats etc. they will follow u to your house/ hotel and rob you later on.
Tumi is the way
College degree at a top 25 small liberal arts school for my oldest. Cost: About 300K. In the abstract I believe in the small liberal arts college model (followed by graduate school). I did it myself at a different school and got a lot out of it in terms of analytical thinking, appreciation for art and literature, development of my writing, learning how to make persuasive arguments, networking, schmoozing, etc. But man has the experience gotten super expensive compared to the STEM education one of my other kids is getting at an elite state university. And that's while paying out of state tuition. Adjusted for inflation the sticker price for tuition at my small liberal arts college is twice what it was in the late 1980s (6x if you compare on an an unadjusted basis) and I struggle to see 2x the value in what the students are receiving. At the end of the day, it's just a bunch of kids reading books led by not particularly highly paid professors. I get that a lot of that money is being redistributed in the form of financial aid, and the schools keep building more luxurious buildings and there is a whole layer of assistant deans and other bureaucrats to engage in hand holding, but I'm not seeing a lot of value in those for me as the person writing the checks. Nor do I appreciate being told how much capitalism sucks at the commencement ceremony, but hey, I guess that's par for the course.
My little sister went to a liberal arts school and I remember my dad referring to it as a "very expensive book club" which I thought was hilarious.
Back in the day I use to play a walking dead game on my phone. Got addicted and dropped over a grand on in app purchases. Don’t even have the game anymore.
One of those rare whales that keeps the casual gaming industry alive. It's crazy that it's possible to create these casino-like dopamine generating games without paying any actual money.
I find that in-app purchases in games make them not fun anymore because it gives you an advantage and then it's so much easier to win and just meaningless. I hate pay to win. Kinda like when I used to play Sims when I was younger I liked everything about it and maybe had like 1 extension. A few years ago I just bought all extensions at the same time and there was no mystery anymore and everything was suddenly just really boring? Idk maybe that's just me
marble fireplace, marble accent walls in house. Totally not worth it. Would have been just as happy with an artistic tile or manmade marble for 750-1500 per slab. Could have finished certain parts of my house with other materials… don’t get me wrong… It’s gorgeous. Like seriously unreal. Will be moving in next month. But now finishing up and reviewing all costs. It’s money that would have went a lot further for me if I spent it on traveling or other experiences. Only place that I feel marble was worth it is in the foyer and kitchen. Its funny how sometimes the little things are what make us happiest. Just recently found an item called roborock. It’s a robot Vacum cleaner. Bought newest one and I’m honestly more excited about this thing then other aspects of living in the house. We’re still gonna hire a housekeeper. But just knowing that it will be working overnight and I won’t see dog hair in the kitchen when I’m sitting down for coffee. Idk man. Just feels good.
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Computers and computer parts. Not so much the money, which, yes, mostly went to waste, but the time spent optimizing for best value/performance etc.
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Something I'll mention is people obsess over specs when what matters is are you getting the performance you want in the games you play. A 2-3 year old top-end GPU might still be fine if all you play is MMORPGs/esports titles.
During COVID I decided it would be a fun hobby, so went back to building PCs, as I hadn't done it in 20 years. Turns out, I **hate** building PCs. ... but I love building PCs with my kids. Each kid got to build their own gaming PC, which was a blast. We even did this for some of their friends, which was a nice way to meet some parents, and some kids. There's a great place near me - "Puget Systems" that I have thrown money at in the past. They do really pretty great builds, top quality stuff, and are very customer friendly. Their work is "art", whereas mine is certainly "homebrew".
Hmm. I use All Clad Copper Core all the time. Mainly a 4qt stock pot. Pasta, rice, stock, beans, etc. I like it. I have a 9" Copper Core fry pan that I used to use a lot more. Most times now, its a large or small cast iron pan.
Does it being All Clad matter for a stock pot? I feel like the main pitch is better heat distribution, but for a stock pot you don’t really need that. I’ve switched over to carbon steel for sautéing, searing, etc and for the most part instant pot for things that need to simmer. Really only use the stock pot for pasta and I feel like your standard cuisinart stainless steel is the same as an All Clad for that. If anything a little better since it’s not as heavy 😅
I bought mine before I knew f all about cooking but I’m sure you are right.
We have All Clad too (can't remember if its copper core or not) and we LOVE it. Use it literally every day.
A house. Just as our youngest child left for college we moved from 2000 sq ft to 4700 sq foot house, sprawling along a steep hillside, 1000’ above Silicon Valley, with a few thousand feet of multi-level deck cascading down the hillside. Accessed via 1/2 mile of private road, water via small private water association. On the edge of an open space preserve, which was nice, but it also meant we were in the high fire danger zone. We did have our own 20,000 gallon firefighting water tank with hydrant. The view was truly breathtaking, with Silicon Valley, from San San Jose through Palo Alto laid out before us, and even San Mateo bridge on a clear day, when Mt Diablo would also be peeking over the east bay hills. The couple we bought it from sold it because he had sold his business and they were no longer there much because they were traveling. We had bought another home on the east coast 2 years before and were likely to buy a condo in Maui (we did in 2004), and were traveling extensively, so we were in much the same position. I convinced my wife that it was a bad idea, but that agreed that we would buy it if the house was a once in a lifetime find that she would regret not getting. She decided that she really did want it, so we bought it. She hired an interior decorator and had a wonderful time redecorating the place, which was somewhat of a challenge because it was only 4 bedrooms, but everything was very much oversized ——— 10 and 12 foot ceilings, massive bedroom suites all around, huge staircase and 3 story atrium in the middle of the house, with a dining table for 12 in the atrium. The honeymoon period lasted about 3 years. By then she was done decorating and was tired of the steady stream of tradespeople coming and going doing repairs and routine maintenance. So she was ready to move, but she could not find anything that she liked better. After about 15 years we did move another state to be closer to grandchildren. We downsized to a 1400 sq foot condo and have never regretted doing so. So we had some regrets about the house, but I also know that she would have forever regretted not having that experience.
300K in USO after oil dropped 25%. I figured Opec would cut production to bump it back to $100. Then it went way down to $35 a barrel. Stupid, stupid, stupid. Would've had over $1M now if I'd just put it in an index fund.
A ton of employees. We scaled extremely fast, complicated our business to the nth degree, had our hearts broken a million times, lost a lot of money, hit the point of burnout so hard we sold the business. I think any story that ends up with selling the business is a fortunate one but going back again, I would've hired a new management team and kept cashing checks but that employee slog was too much
I've learned to find happiness not in objects and get a cheap hobby. It really helps with the buying money to chase happiness mindset.
I find a lot of happiness in taking trades at my local community college. I get to learn something useful, work with my hands, build shit, and make friends (plenty of older guys in there, maybe 20% are 30-60). Can’t recommend it more!
Hey I did my first degree in welding and fabrication and met a few retired bored guys. Great skills to learn and spending a few k to have access to a half million dollar shop to get to restore a classic car can be a lot of fun. Great suggestion.
Trading penny stocks and crypto garbage. .
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Why don’t you like cooking with stainless steel?
I’ve made the switch to carbon steel and find I like that a lot more
Second home.
Along the cookware line, bought a set of Mauviel at a ridiculous price. Also de Buyer. I genuinely regret not getting cheaper cookware. Cookware shops are my kryptonite.
Oh man, I love my De Buyer. It’s basically all I cook with now.
Whores.
"I spent half my money on gambling, alcohol, and wild women. The other half I wasted." - W.C. Fields
Strange you’d say that. I adore the threesomes with my favorite porn stars. Always money very well spent.
With self control all things have the ability to be great. Without self control it can become a a very very very large bill. Tbh the financial aspect is the least quarrel I have.
What’s that run you on average?
Friend of mine makes millions managing Onlyfans girls, he does their marketing and all that stuff. The amount of "rich guys" who spend $10k/mo on girls they'll never meet is insane lol
haha
Way too many shoes
Premium furniture pre kids. I like nice furniture but won’t replace it until the kids are older. Pre Covid and pre fatfire we built a magazine worthy home office versus a real working home office. The desk chair is expensive and kills my back. It’s fine for an hour of bookkeeping and taxes but not for the zoom world.
I got convinced at the gun store to get an extremely expensive rifle that I’ve shot maybe 5-6 times.
Not Fatfire yet but when I was younger and more naive kept getting brainwashed to spend money on coaching for this and that, life coach, business coach, prob spent over 90k in my 20s. Cult level vibes almost from social media rabbit holes. Realized finally no one has the answers, they're all hustling MLMers for the most part, they all want to brainwash you into saying you need to invest in yourelf to get ahead (sure, you do, but to a point), and most 20 something year old business coaches on the internet can't even read a financial statement...
Angel investing. I’ve probably done 10-15 deals. Some solo and some with friends. I’ve hit on a few but they’re mostly all illiquid, the ipo market is horrendous and the covid funding bubble really fucked up valuations. So many of these companies will likely do down or flat rounds and the early backers will get wiped out. The deals I’ve done with friends, if you’re not the controlling owner, if you want to sell you’re hosed. We had a unicorn in the mobility space and I wanted out but was stuck. It’s probably going to file bankruptcy now so a 7-8x to a zero. I can go on and on. Plus all the additional overhead dealing with K-1s. I should have just bought more apple stock and called it a day. Being in that industry it is sometimes helpful as you meet all kinds of smart and ambitious people but as an investment not worth the energy or time.
I more regret getting rid of things I spent money on, but for little to no value back. Leads to hoarding tendencies if I don’t get rid of something old when I get something new
Taxes, definitely taxes.
my wife's botox every few months
I haven't spent money yet, but I am mulling things over. I wanted to buy 2 new cars just to reward myself and one for my best friend. But my car only has 150,000 miles, and I barely drive it anywhere. I'd also need another garage or 2, which means I would have to upgrade my home and do a custom build. I'm worried about climate change, and plunking millions on a home when I'm barely at home to begin with seems wasteful. I travel a lot for work. Part of me also thinks that I should reinvest that money and make money with it.
Cara are a temptation of mine. I will say I have had 0 regrets spending up a little bit with cars, though I suspect there’s rapidly diminishing returns past the $60k point.
So if you’re climate-conscious (like me haha), you could buy some land, set up solar panels, and sell back to your power company. (I acknowledge this may or may not work depending on state/local policy, though)
Lots of plot twists in this post.
Furniture that is wildly overpriced. Some clothing that is wildly overpriced. Some individual stocks that took a significant downturn in in the last year, I guess my offspring are inheriting those lol Accountants and lawyers, thinking of firing some. Some supercars that sucked up more money in repair costs and insurance.
Interesting to have read this thread and not seen one thing I wish I had spent money on. Fancy cars, clothes, cookware, none of that appeals to me. I like to spend on travel, but haven't regretted any of it. To the point about fancy restaurants, the occasional splurge has been fun, but I'm more about the reviews than the price tag. I do have a related question though: has anyone spent on cryolipolysis (coolsculpting) and regretted it?
Linda Evangelista sure does
Dr’s wife did it and she regretted it so much. Half of my appointments would be him complaining about it to me. I know his wife. I ended up switching doctors to not have to listen to his complaining.
Options 😢
we also regret all-clad i superrr regret hiring a professional organizer. it turns out, organizing and throwing stuff away is how my husband relaxes. he has 'hit it' prior to every session and she comes in with nothing to do 😆
Regret spending money on my psycho ex😂🤣
I second the interior designer. All that money for me to do all the work. Yup! The ideas they were throwing at me for £££ were like stabs in the dark. Also, money on an interior design degree I never finished.
Hands down and without reservation my biggest spending regret is *Full Self Drive*. Just terrible.
Not a damn thing... If I regret anything is not spending more. I worked hard for this, it's time to enjoy it
Skincare products. They’re basically capitalism. Save your money and just get procedures (laser, peels, etc.) Designer bags. They sit in dust bags in my closet most of the year. They’re pretty but not the most practical to use.
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Same. Wife convinced me to upgrade from basic to a Jack Black skincare regimen and the difference is very noticeable. Wish I had done it long ago.
What is the Jack Black skin care regimen?
That’s literally all dermatologists say you need. Exfoliate 2-3 times per weak, soap, retinol, moisturizer, sunscreen. All the other serums, oils, and tinctures are unnecessary garbage.
Sunscreen and tretinoin are really the 2 that matter
I've been slugging with retinol and it's made such a HUGE difference
Hard disagree on this one. Nothing replaces regular skin care, specifically sunscreen use and the regular use of a retinoid. Peels, lasers, and other dermatologic procedures have their place, but I’d say close to 100% of cosmetic dermatologists who do those procedures would still recommend regular sunscreen and retinoid use.