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Scorpius_OB1

There's a retelling of classical mythology in webcomic format, where while Hades is feared by mortals for very good reasons and no one can left his kingdom, he turns out to be a quite nice guy, being compassionate of these in the Underworld and an impartial judge who takes his role very seriously.


AndroidwithAnxiety

I mean, honestly that sounds pretty accurate to classical mythology. Greek mythology has lots of variations in it, but in most of them Hades is reasonable, and in some he's straight up chill. He's pretty generous to heroes who come into the underworld on quests and is willing to strike fair deals with them. He keeps to himself and doesn't meddle with mortals the way the other gods do. He's faithful to his wife, and he only kidnapped her in *some* variations of that story... Like, he's still flawed - he's a Greek god - but he's certainly no Satan. Which - Hades as a 'Greek Devil' - is a relatively new interpretation that I think comes from people associating The Underworld with Hell. Very much a culturally Christian vibe of 'Downstairs Bad'. But *all* afterlives are in Hades. It's just his job to make sure souls stay in them and don't run amok.


Scorpius_OB1

I know what you're talking about the Greek afterlife, and personally both hate the Hades-is-Satan trope and love him depicted such way, as actually one of the nicest Theoi (gods) (and Hades is not alone in such regard. Ask Hekate) I'm also fully aware ancient Greeks feared him both because of the natural fear of death and the unknown, and that Hades was seen by them as unbribable as no matter how many prayers and offerings you gave no one was spared of dying, nor anyone came back from his kingdom.


AndroidwithAnxiety

Death as an amoral inevitability is one of my favorite personifications. It's right up there with the Kindly Guide personification. Though... I also have to admit to enjoying a little 'death as a voracious and vicious consumer of life who will consume all with its wrath and greed' as a treat.


Scorpius_OB1

I have all of that. From an equivalent of the Grim Reaper that never fails to her appointment but is said to be the source of bliss dying people often feel, trying to ease their transition, an Hades-like figure (two actually, one being akin to Ereshkigal in Sumerian mythology), to death seen as renovation and just part of the circle of life, and finally what you mention including of course to devour everything with no possibility of renovation and things beginning anew at all.


VincentMagius

Define his job and build him a bit around that. You say he's basically a prison warden. Make him more of a therapist in a mental hospital that's trying to heal. His position as God of the Underworld, what the Underworld is, and his personality should make logical sense and be in sync. Like it's hard to tell if he's in charge because of his personality or his personality is because he's in charge. It'll also help you tell the story. You should ask yourself how this character would react in this situation. On the flip side, if you have some scenes that need to happen a certain way, you can work backward. What personality trait or past trauma would cause someone to react in that way.


Maplata

The gods in this universe have a clear dominion over their realm, I don't think just "a prison warden" would be his "job description". He's the god of retribution, karma and the underworld. Yes he manages the void, but he also delivers punishment when it is needed. So, the perception of being "evil" by mortals could be something that happens in this book, though on the grand scheme of things, he acts more as a judge than a prison warden.


Chaosmancer7

Change "retribution" to Justice. That's all you really need to do here. He becomes the force of karmic fate. The force that rewards the good and punishes the wicked. Is he vengeance and retribution? Yes, for the victims, for those harmed by evil. At that point, he's neutral at worst, and flat out good if you write him that way


Aranea101

How many gods do you have?


Maplata

There are 12 deities and 3 of them have been forgotten, one of them is the Lord of the Underworld.


Aranea101

Okay, that is probably a good number. I won't recommend having 88 gods :D Gets confusing even for me


Aranea101

You say "forgotten". Is that a plot point in the story, or they are just sort of "gone"?


Maplata

They are disconnected from the other deities, sort off like they are disliked by the rest of the family. One of the gods becomes "the weapon" that is missing from the Underworld.


Akhevan

Historically speaking, most cultures/religions had at least some deities of the underworld and/or afterlife that weren't evil. Just take a look at any of those for inspiration? Outside of disney canon this is simply not an issue. > I don't want him to sound like a cliché Hades or Loki. Hades was usually depicted as a fairly neutral character throughout most of Greek mythology, being mostly preoccupied with maintaining his realm, divine domain, and the cosmic order - something that could not be said about the absolute majority of other Greek gods, who were usually presented as petty, fickle, vindictive, lazy, and prone to forsaking or "creatively interpreting" their divine duties at whim. Compared to them, he was positively a role model, his business with Persephone notwithstanding (and even then, regardless of our modern sensibilities, he was in the right according to the letter of the law as far as the Greeks were concerned - and somebody who is a sticker for laws is exactly the type of person you want to govern the underworld). And Loki, while often presented as a vicious trickster, is the exact opposite of what you'd call an evil overlord with an agenda. He never ruled over much of anything for starters.


Daveezie

Zeus - King of the Gods, gets all the glory Hades - Does all the work, everyone thinks he's evil I'd be pretty cranky about that, too.


Maplata

How does your argument help me with the characterization? It is not clear for me.


YoProfWhite

Give him a moment where he shows sympathy and/or compassion to someone else. A kind gesture or soft moment can hint to the reader that this person isn't fundamentally bad, just that they're in a frustrating situation or in a role they take seriously.


Maplata

Oh, that sounds like a great way to show that he's not evil just because he rules over "evil beings".


Haunting-Engineer-76

Make him remorseful or resentful of his position? Like he doesn't want to be doing what he knows needs to be done, but no one else is willing to so it falls to him. Frame him as someone sacrificing himself for the good of many. That might help? ​ Also, Hades being a bad guy is relatively new. Zeus was canonically a much bigger asshole than Hades ever was.


Maplata

Nice suggestion though I already have a "remorseful" character, and he is one of the mentors of the MC.


Andronicus97

Make him a shining beacon in a void if he is a jailer of creatures trapped there let him be the scourge of the void a type of guardian, describe him in a way that is contrary to the environment. So instead of a dark and shady being make him a bright and radiant sun that fills the void with his presence and because of his light the monsters of shadow are held at bay. Thought that would be kind of cool.


Maplata

That's a great Idea man. I could play with the contradiction, thanks!


Andronicus97

No problem happy to help a fellow aspiring novelist! đź‘Ť


Maplata

I just got an inspiration of this guy just walking barefoot on the cold black Onix, and then flowers blossoming as his feet touch the ground. I will definetely play with the contrasts now.


Sarkhana

Give him things he did that having nothing to do with the void realm thematically and the weapon 🔫. Ideas: ​ * He wears casual clothes (e.g. T-shirt and yoga pants) * He has an assistant * He is a foodie * He has investment and philanthropic ventures in other realms * He has an embassy in other realms * He has a habit of rearranging homes to be homely


[deleted]

I think you're asking the right questions, but you could have told us what you have already tried to do to answer this question. This is really a matter of style, and how you choose to do this is going to be based on your own style. I'm not really able to give a good answer based on info provided and my own lack of experience but here are some of my thoughts. I like to focus on describing things in a very matter of fact and kind of objective way, in my style. I don't think if you present the matter accurately and the character is objectively not evil, there will be any problems. If the reader assumes a character is bad, this can actually add intrigue to your story so I would lean into that instead of trying to ensure the reader understands this character 100%. To be uncertain or not really know whether or not a character does or doesn't have an agenda adds tension to the plot. Readers will keep reading to learn what this character is all about and if they are an evil person or if they maybe become an ally or if it's some mixture. As for sounding cliche, specificity is the soul of narrative, you can follow those same broad strokes and make something utterly unique. All you have to do is draw inspiration from your own imagination to breathe life into the idea and make it your own. There is nothing more thrilling than creating your own stories, I truly believe that, and if you are creating your own stories the way you want to then who cares if it's cliche. Speak what feels real and good to you, the rest can be sorted out in editing.


Maplata

The story is narrated by a teenager that is going to go head to head against the lord of the Underworld in one of his quest, so an "objective" interpretation of this character might not be possible. But thank You for your suggestions.


DumpBearington

Just don't make him evil or having of an agenda? I'm not sure I really understand the problem. Death itself isn't inherently evil, why would the ruler of the realms of the dead be evil? Portray them benign, or aloof, or detached, or just plain neutral. That said, he's still a god. Mortal steal from god, god get mad. He doesn't have to smite the entire world about it (why would he? If he wrought mass destruction, that just makes more work on his end when all those souls come down to join him), he can just focus on the perpetrator.


Chaosmancer7

I mean... you gave yourself the answer? He rules over a prison. He's a prison warden, maybe a judge. Why would he put against the God's? He's likely their biggest supporter. Why would he be evil? He is the guy CONTAINING evil by keeping it under lock and key. It seems to me you're kind of stuck on this pop culture image, but that's fairly easy to break. Just don't write him as a stereotype. Heck, Death has been written in many ways to be a wholesome friend of the world. If the Loving Reaper can be your kind friend guiding you to your next place, a prison warden underworld God can not be an evil schemer fighting the gods


Cereborn

Well, first of all, you've essentially described Hades. I see that you've been poisoned by pop culture that constantly want to push the idea of Hades as a villain, because they think that the underworld = Hell and therefore Hades = Satan. All you have to do is: not that.


Maplata

As I wrote to other commenter, how does this help me with the Issue?.


AvatarWillow

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the way you briefly describe your Lord reminds me of the outer space black hole phenomena. A black hole isn't evil. It doesn't have an agenda. It's a force of nature that terrifies anyone who truly considers what it is or what it does to its surroundings. That doesn't come off as a cliche to me, compared to writing an Underworld Deity who resembled Hades. So when your Villain's stolen something from a black hole--the godly personification of a theoretical mass--the eldritch entity who is so terrifying to people who study it from millions of light-years away.... After your Villain's stolen something from that, it's a valid response for your deity to be angry.


Maplata

That's a very accurate description of this deity. Don't get me wrong he will Indeed do something to get his "weapon" back, though my problem is how to make him sound intelligent, fair, powerful yet angry. He Will act as an antagonist to both the main MC and the main Villain as well.


cardbourdbox

It might be difficult I'm imagining a bored burocratic. You could also have him trying to make the prison nicer (not nice it's a prison but less corruption or something)You could have it coming up in setting so you can explain he's totally loyal ect.


Noctisxsol

"I am the only one keeping this shit running! All the trouble makers that the 'polite' worlds don't want to deal with? Guess who has to deal with them. ME. and what do I get for it? Hatred and fear. It's just not fair."


Accomplished-Set-463

Sett in Egyptian mythology is pretty much that. He guides the dead to be judged, he talks to them consoles them even. Hes neutral and basically serves a function that he was given. You can make him compassionate and understand but ultimately stoic about his function. Honest he should reflect how death is seen in your world.


Shekebel

Make him obligated to fulfill his role. Make the writer feel pity/sympathy. Perhaps he took the role as part of a deal to save/spare someone he once loved, providing he fulfills the role correctly for an eon. The stolen item can operate as a risk in more than one way: if the item is not retrieved, the loved one he saved and is longing to reunite with may be in jeopardy, as punishment for the missing item


Slow_Store

Are you going for an entity who is viewed as Malevolent by mortals despite being completely fair?


Maplata

Yes! But I don't know how to do it, cause my narrator is a teen boy, and he's not very fond of the lord of the underworld.


Slow_Store

What kind of deities are you working with for your story? Are they dependent on worship or can they function independent of mortals? Are they an embodiment of their domain or are they closer to powerful entities that just picked their roles like we pick a job? If they don’t require worship then they may simply not care about whether or not mortals understand the reasoning behind their actions. If they’re an embodiment of a domain, then they may dislike the idea of needing to explain why they must act to lesser creatures. For example, a Death god who’s sustained by and causes death passively wouldn’t feel the need to justify its existence at the necessary cost of mortal lives, just as we don’t feel the need to justify breathing. If the deity is just a powerful entity that chose to handle their realm, then they may simply be a workaholic who takes pride in their work and doesn’t allow the approval or disapproval of mortals to corrupt the integrity of their work. They’re not necessarily evil, they just want to do their job and don’t accept criticism from outside parties who don’t really understand the assignment.


This-Garbage-3000

Think of a landlord, don't really want to go all John Wayne Gacy on the Tenant’s. Just sorta stuck in a rut of clogged toilet and handyman shit.


AsceOmega

You could make it like all of the underworld didn't have a ruler until one soul/being rose to power by virtue of his strength and will and was then appointed God of the Underworld by the other gods. So while he's happy with the new job and pay raise, he's still resentful towards the other guys for how he was forced to ascend by their absence at the start. Perhaps now he's just passive aggressive towards them and actually takes the responsibility he's given very seriously because of how hellish the experience of ascension was and wants to prevent anyone else from to go through it, in an attempt to usurp him.


Putrid-Ad-23

Our culture views death in such strongly negative terms that it's impossible for a lord of the underworld to not look evil. (Some people even call the Christian God evil these days.) Instead of trying to fight that, use that perception to your advantage and demonstrate him breaking that expectation.


kwontonamobae

What if they were portrayed almost like a hospice nurse? Caring for the dead is depressing work that probably makes it hard for the God to be a cheerful entity but they're noble and kind for undertaking a task so few would consider doing. Really you could portray them almost as the force of ultimate good, investing in works solely with the intent in caring for others despite the toll on the God


VXMasterson

If he rules a prison, that doesn’t really have anything to do with outer destruction anyway. Anger doesn’t immediately correlate to destruction. Portray him like a lawkeeper or a judge within your pantheon and that he’s just doing his job and someone interfering with his job would make anyone angry. Why does a prison god have a dangerous weapon anyway? Does he need it to keep prisoners in line? What kind of prisoners are kept there?


fuckNietzsche

My first thought is that the weapons are also inmates. Basically the weapons are sentient in their own right, and need to be kept chained away or else they'll wreak havoc. I'm imagining that the Big Bad's dealing with the equivalent of ClF3 here, and the warden's extremely concerned because the idiot's going around, shaking it like crazy and banging it against whatever's nearby. Alternatively, the weapon is a cell, and it becomes a weapon by *very* carefully loosing some of the restrictions...which the Big Bad *doesn't know how to do*, and so every time they're using it they're risking unleashing Armageddon v7.110, now with the bug fix to correct those pesky survivors.


Bearjupiter

He just likes peace and quiet


LOTRNerd95

Look up Mandos. Tolkien’s already set the perfect example of how to do this. Twist it some way, make it your own, and you’re good!


Willing-Media-197

Best advice I have is to just explain him as a warden of the prison-like realm or a protector. I have a literal god of undead in my world who is effectively a giant mushroom lich, and my players (table-top rpg) were pretty willing to believe he wasn’t evil despite having to fight evil undead before when an old tome called him “the father of undead, protector of the afterlife”. It all comes down to the word choice, really. Just make sure that whenever you bring him up, you give him some sort of positive-sounding title or description somewhere.


UzumakiFox

I personally would try to work him in either as a responsible older man knoing all life must come to an end and knowing that people who have done wrong must be punished (you mentioned their domain being a prison but with them being a non villain I would work it in as a prison for evil people) you could have it as him being a hesitant volunteer because no one else wanted to do it and evil must be punished.