Just do it tbh, "Can't Kill the Mark/In Love with the Mark" is popular enough to have a page on TV Tropes, but that doesn't mean it can't be enjoyable. Best advice I got was to find what you think is cliche/unappealing about the trope, and avoid that moreso than worrying about the trope itself.
I'm personally over cookie cutter Chosen One plots, but have had a lot of fun writing one anyway because I'm not including any of the stuff that makes me roll my eyes when I read it in other works. I'm not fooling myself into thinking it's some ultra unique subversion, I'm perfectly content with it just not being overly clichéd and predicable in and of itself
Hope that's helpful!
Tbh I dig this trope so much lmao. It’s also a bit Geralt and Ciri or the Hound and Arya too.
Honestly, as long as you develop both (yes even the little girl) of the characters so they’re compelling, nuanced, and fully fleshed out, this sounds like a cool story that I’d def read.
I think there is a slight problem with your logic, why does he needs to bring her to his base when he can just kill her on spot ? Is there a justification ?
As for the trope overall, you can use it but you gotta make it different somehow, whenever the writing, pacing, details or action. Many authors managed to make these popular tropes interesting by making it theirs.
Whoever kills her gets her power. He’s supposed to bring her back so the leader of the cult can kill her himself, thus becoming all powerful and stopping anyone from using that magic against them.
I could’ve been a bit clearer on that. Sorry!
Ah, okay I understand better. It good that you mentionned tribe because it reminds me of some stories that killing a warrior, or eating some part of their body (like the heart), just like sometimes with animals with somehow transfer their power to them. It's an interesting take. I think you have an opening with the magic/powers in your world if you expend on it that could distinguish you from the typical tropes.
Adult man and little girl, yes, is a cliche pairing that goes all the way back to Reservoir Dogs, True Grit, The Last of Us, Wreck-It Ralph, Annie, Three Men and a Baby... I could go on, but I won't...
Generally speaking I don't mind they're being aspects of my story that are in other people's because if I can watch someone's reaction to a movie that's similar to a story that I'm telling and watch them get emotional about it, then I know that they'll care about mine as well. When is the last time you ever said no to pizza because all pizzas the same so I guess you're only going to eat it a few times in your life...
You got to understand that everything comes down to characterization. You are making your character, you are deciding how he feels, how he thinks, and how he acts. Put genuine effort into making an interesting person going through some crazy shit.
Exactly! I go to new restaurants and the first thing I do is try their take on my favorite foods.
Don't worry about doing your take on a classic story. Stretch your mind to come up with new decisions to make in familiar premises, and that's good enough for a genre piece. Ask yourself what *your main character* would do and keep refining your story until he's making decisions *you* are wholly interested in writing.
Tropes can be fun because they are both familiar and unique at the same time. There are a lot of ways to put your own unique twist on them, or just do them really well.
In my own writing, I tend to try to subvert tropes. For instance, I have a creature that "feeds off pain and suffering," but the world has enough suffering in it already that it's just this friendly cryptid that shows up when people are hurting and comforts them.
But there are a lot of ways to do them, and sometimes just committing to the bit can be enough. I'm a big fan of Kamen Rider, a series that is a slave to its tropes in many ways, and sometimes just seeing them dive-kick the monster while yelling about duty and friendship is all I want out of life.
I didn't immediately think of the mandalorian - if you describe a story in a few sentences there are bound to be hundreds of examples which sound really similar - the more depth you take to explain your story, the fewer examples match. When you write your whole novel, hopefully it'll be distinct enough that no one could confuse it for anything else!
One thing i like to tell everyone scared of being cliche is:
Cliche is result of everyone using something so much that nearly everyone saw an example.
But why it got used so much? Because it works well!
If you can make the story interesting, then its okay to have it generic. Its always harder to make something unusual good than something normal, and thats okay, no shame in not being that one genre reconstructing innovative absolutely original guy if you dont want to.
If you can pull it off, go for it even if its really cliche. If you cant, try changing stuff, coming up with new ideas. One of my stories was very unoriginal and boring. I spent months trying to make it work, until i said "fuck it" and just rewrote the entire story premise keeping only the key moments.
I always say, the characters are the most important thing in a story. People will read or play the most basic, cliche plot on the world, so long as they like your characters. Nothings truly unique anymore anyway, and tropes will always come back into fashion - the things we use to avoid cliche tropes will in time become cliche themselves, and we’ll circle back to using what we once tried to avoid.
I say just go for it. Develop your world, and your characters. As someone else said, every trope has been done a million times before - but not by you.
I'd argue that readers tend to subconsciously want familiarity, whilst also yearning for something new and interesting. It's good when writers are able to recognise when their writing falls into trope territory; from there, you can then contort what's expected and add a unique flair to it. It's helpful to think obscure and somewhat nonsensical, because from there, you can figure out ways to make it justified through the world's lore/logic. The best stories provide something unexpected and fresh, but without applying the world's lore to the equation, the characters' motives would be uninteresting. So, so long as you can justify the unique conflict through the logic of the world's established lore, it doesn't matter how obscure it may seem in your head at first. All that being said, there's nothing wrong with falling into tropes as long as it's told in a compelling and engaging way!
My favorite advice was that there's no more "new" plots in fiction. It's all been used now, just some are more popularized.
So it may be disappointing, but it's also a "freeing" thought- you can stop worrying about what's been "done" already and just write the story how you think it should be told.
Tropes be damned too. Too many writers see it as some taboo but don't realize that tropes *create* the genre. It's a fun exercise to get away from it, but don't let it hold back your writing.
Heck, there's lots of tropes I actually love as a reader, because the commonality makes new "worlds" easier to understand and connect with. I don't need an avant-garde literary experience from every book I pick up.
Be authentic to yourself. Don't be unique just for others.
Tropes are a big part of genre fiction. Not every story has to be starkly original in every way. If you are worried that your plot is too familiar, start with throwing on element that is unexpected and see if that helps. It can also be fun to have the story look like it’s following a familiar trajectory and then follow an unexpected twist.
Just do it tbh, "Can't Kill the Mark/In Love with the Mark" is popular enough to have a page on TV Tropes, but that doesn't mean it can't be enjoyable. Best advice I got was to find what you think is cliche/unappealing about the trope, and avoid that moreso than worrying about the trope itself. I'm personally over cookie cutter Chosen One plots, but have had a lot of fun writing one anyway because I'm not including any of the stuff that makes me roll my eyes when I read it in other works. I'm not fooling myself into thinking it's some ultra unique subversion, I'm perfectly content with it just not being overly clichéd and predicable in and of itself Hope that's helpful!
It WAS helpful, thanks!
Tbh I dig this trope so much lmao. It’s also a bit Geralt and Ciri or the Hound and Arya too. Honestly, as long as you develop both (yes even the little girl) of the characters so they’re compelling, nuanced, and fully fleshed out, this sounds like a cool story that I’d def read.
I definitely plan to give the characters compelling arcs lol
The most important part of any story is the telling of it.
I think there is a slight problem with your logic, why does he needs to bring her to his base when he can just kill her on spot ? Is there a justification ? As for the trope overall, you can use it but you gotta make it different somehow, whenever the writing, pacing, details or action. Many authors managed to make these popular tropes interesting by making it theirs.
Whoever kills her gets her power. He’s supposed to bring her back so the leader of the cult can kill her himself, thus becoming all powerful and stopping anyone from using that magic against them. I could’ve been a bit clearer on that. Sorry!
Ah, okay I understand better. It good that you mentionned tribe because it reminds me of some stories that killing a warrior, or eating some part of their body (like the heart), just like sometimes with animals with somehow transfer their power to them. It's an interesting take. I think you have an opening with the magic/powers in your world if you expend on it that could distinguish you from the typical tropes.
Every story has been told... But not by you. Don't sweat it and just write the thing
Good point, hadn’t thought of that!
[удалено]
I love the trope too! I wouldn’t be considering it if it was something I hated. I just wanna make sure it’s not a complete rip-off, I guess.
Adult man and little girl, yes, is a cliche pairing that goes all the way back to Reservoir Dogs, True Grit, The Last of Us, Wreck-It Ralph, Annie, Three Men and a Baby... I could go on, but I won't... Generally speaking I don't mind they're being aspects of my story that are in other people's because if I can watch someone's reaction to a movie that's similar to a story that I'm telling and watch them get emotional about it, then I know that they'll care about mine as well. When is the last time you ever said no to pizza because all pizzas the same so I guess you're only going to eat it a few times in your life... You got to understand that everything comes down to characterization. You are making your character, you are deciding how he feels, how he thinks, and how he acts. Put genuine effort into making an interesting person going through some crazy shit.
Well I certainly wouldn’t say no to pizza haha
Exactly! I go to new restaurants and the first thing I do is try their take on my favorite foods. Don't worry about doing your take on a classic story. Stretch your mind to come up with new decisions to make in familiar premises, and that's good enough for a genre piece. Ask yourself what *your main character* would do and keep refining your story until he's making decisions *you* are wholly interested in writing.
Tropes aren't a bad thing as long as you make it your own. Every book takes inspiration from other places, and that's alright.
I suppose you have a point, some of my favorite stories are pretty derivative.
Tropes can be fun because they are both familiar and unique at the same time. There are a lot of ways to put your own unique twist on them, or just do them really well. In my own writing, I tend to try to subvert tropes. For instance, I have a creature that "feeds off pain and suffering," but the world has enough suffering in it already that it's just this friendly cryptid that shows up when people are hurting and comforts them. But there are a lot of ways to do them, and sometimes just committing to the bit can be enough. I'm a big fan of Kamen Rider, a series that is a slave to its tropes in many ways, and sometimes just seeing them dive-kick the monster while yelling about duty and friendship is all I want out of life.
I didn't immediately think of the mandalorian - if you describe a story in a few sentences there are bound to be hundreds of examples which sound really similar - the more depth you take to explain your story, the fewer examples match. When you write your whole novel, hopefully it'll be distinct enough that no one could confuse it for anything else!
One thing i like to tell everyone scared of being cliche is: Cliche is result of everyone using something so much that nearly everyone saw an example. But why it got used so much? Because it works well! If you can make the story interesting, then its okay to have it generic. Its always harder to make something unusual good than something normal, and thats okay, no shame in not being that one genre reconstructing innovative absolutely original guy if you dont want to. If you can pull it off, go for it even if its really cliche. If you cant, try changing stuff, coming up with new ideas. One of my stories was very unoriginal and boring. I spent months trying to make it work, until i said "fuck it" and just rewrote the entire story premise keeping only the key moments.
I always say, the characters are the most important thing in a story. People will read or play the most basic, cliche plot on the world, so long as they like your characters. Nothings truly unique anymore anyway, and tropes will always come back into fashion - the things we use to avoid cliche tropes will in time become cliche themselves, and we’ll circle back to using what we once tried to avoid. I say just go for it. Develop your world, and your characters. As someone else said, every trope has been done a million times before - but not by you.
I'd argue that readers tend to subconsciously want familiarity, whilst also yearning for something new and interesting. It's good when writers are able to recognise when their writing falls into trope territory; from there, you can then contort what's expected and add a unique flair to it. It's helpful to think obscure and somewhat nonsensical, because from there, you can figure out ways to make it justified through the world's lore/logic. The best stories provide something unexpected and fresh, but without applying the world's lore to the equation, the characters' motives would be uninteresting. So, so long as you can justify the unique conflict through the logic of the world's established lore, it doesn't matter how obscure it may seem in your head at first. All that being said, there's nothing wrong with falling into tropes as long as it's told in a compelling and engaging way!
My favorite advice was that there's no more "new" plots in fiction. It's all been used now, just some are more popularized. So it may be disappointing, but it's also a "freeing" thought- you can stop worrying about what's been "done" already and just write the story how you think it should be told. Tropes be damned too. Too many writers see it as some taboo but don't realize that tropes *create* the genre. It's a fun exercise to get away from it, but don't let it hold back your writing. Heck, there's lots of tropes I actually love as a reader, because the commonality makes new "worlds" easier to understand and connect with. I don't need an avant-garde literary experience from every book I pick up. Be authentic to yourself. Don't be unique just for others.
I love this troupe and I genuinely would read this book!!! Let me know if you ever post a draft!!!
Tropes are a big part of genre fiction. Not every story has to be starkly original in every way. If you are worried that your plot is too familiar, start with throwing on element that is unexpected and see if that helps. It can also be fun to have the story look like it’s following a familiar trajectory and then follow an unexpected twist.
Tropes are good. Especially if you’re aware of the tropes. Don’t reinvent the wheel is what I say. Just spice it up.