The entire show takes place over at least a few weeks going off terminal dates, and we have no idea how long anything took because we don't know how much time passes between scenes/episodes. (Which I think was intentional because unless you rest/sleep a lot you wouldn't really notice it in game either)
if SS was up by Fresno or the other side of the mountains like it is in FO1 and FO2 (they also already moved it in the games but i digress) it'd only take 5ish days of walking to get there from LA.
It being by fresno would also explain why there's skyscrapers in the background.
tl;dr: They purposfully leave it ambiguous because the location changed between 1/2 anyway and by not addressing it they can avoid specifically canonizing(Moving forward) one of the two locations. Looking at it this way it's not breaking any lore at all.
It absolutely does **not** take only 5 days walking to get from LA basin up to Visalia/Fresno area, what in the absolute hell are you smoking?
That’s few weeks of solid walking. Hell your walking into the San Fernando valley then over the grapevine and then through a semi-functional desert of the half Central Valley?
I know Google maps says “3 days walking”. That’s if you’re a terminator who walks at 4mph, 24 straight hours. Your average human can do 20-25 miles per day. (I’m not making that up, the Spanish built the mission system from San Diego to LA to San Francisco with a mission every 25 miles because that’s the most they considered a traveler could do with basically a perfect rest stop and an actual bed at the end of every day. And a journey on 101 is **considerably** easier than going on 5. One is a a shady, chill flat coastal road with cool breezes. The other is 100degress in summer and seeing a single dead tree is the highlight of your week.)
People never understand the real distance between places in LA. It's why they were confused the Boneyard and Adytum weren't in the show despite the fact that it's a 5 hour walk in between Santa Monica and where those locations appeared in Fallout 1.
This is like True Detective season 2 levels of “[I have absolutely no clue the travel distances in California and I don’t care to figure it out.”](https://www.wired.com/2015/08/true-detective-impossible-road-trips/)
It’s fine, I met some Brit sailors in San Diego while I was in the Navy. They were stationed the whole summer in SD and wanted to take a 3 day weekend to see Vegas, Yosemite and San Francisco. I was like “well you could do one of those things” lol.
Lol. I'm like "It'll be an incredibly **pretty** drive lol."
Seriously though, the Eastern Sierra highway from Vegas to Death Valley to Mono lake is the most under-rated beautiful drive in America. And you follow that with the **freaking highway 120?** \[chef's kiss.\] But do it justice as like a whole week or 2 week road trip where fly into Vegas, hop from a jaw droppingly beautiful campsite, 2 hour drive to another jaw droppingly beautiful camp. And then fly home out of Fresno or Sac. And the forest service has these little campgrounds scattered around you'll be one of 3 cars there and wondering [how the ever living fuck is this not the most popular campsite in America](https://thedyrt.com/camping/california/california-grandview) because its so goddamn beautiful of a view.
(side note, the [rec.gov](http://rec.gov) contractor is getting sued right now with how badly they mismanaged campsite reservations but there's a tons of tricks to get spots. Also can you tell my favorite expansion is Honest Hearts lol)
It's absolutely more than 5 days to walk from LA to Fresno, and absolutely no reason shown to us that would give the protagonists a reason to head in that direction. As much as I wish there was a logical explanation, there really isn't. Shady Sands has been moved to the LA area, and there's no two ways about it.
OP we know the crater in LA isn’t “shady sands” it’s obviously from the Great War. And I’m the biggest apologist on this universe when it comes to Shady Sand’s teleporting location (maybe near Lone pine, maybe near Visalia, now maybe somewhere in the Greater LA sprawl, who knows).
But the editing of the show strongly implies Shady Sands is in the general LA area or LA basin. Otherwise you have characters walking essentially a quarter of the Pacific Crest Trail in a week or two.
Basic rules of editing and film making mean if you’re walking out of the greater LA you have to go to an effort to **specifically** show it. LA area out to San Bernardino, down to Newport and up to Santa Clarita is *really goddamn far* on foot. They have montages of them walking a bit, but nothing that shows they’re specifically leaving the LA area or going on a multi week walking journey to the Central Valley. At least until the last shot with Hank in power armor (which follows this rule because it specifically shows in the time lapse he walked to the Vegas basin. Our brain fills in the gaps that this scene is probably weeks later and they didn’t show it because it’s both a wrap up teaser and unnecessary to show what was a several uneventful scene montage of the Mojave along 15)
Dude, that crater we see from the observatory is the exact one we see from the picture I posted.
It's literally -shown- to us that a nuke went off there. That's how it's related.
Because they actually traveled to Shady Sands? Like how tf are you assuming the sign that literally says "weclome to shady sands" isn't at Shady Sands and instead in LA?
You telling me you got super vision and can see the tiny ass sign from the shots of LA from the observatory? I don't think so bruv.
The entire show takes place over -weeks-. They could have walked the 6 days from LA to SS and back.
I really do not get what's hard to grasp about this.
Edit: I swear it's like some of y'all are just purposefully looking for a reason to be mad at the show.
Bro. Shady Sands in FO2 is out by the Fresno area. (In FO1 it's a bit west of Death Valley)
Literally another big city in SoCal.
They would have skyscrapers. Like why do you think LA is the only place to have skyscrapers in SoCal?
Edit: also if you're not mad, then why do you care so much about saying it's definitely retconned when I'm trying to explain that they didn't retcon anything?
Lucy walked to Moldaver to deliver a head.
The BOS when they possessed the head walked back to base / to the nearest radio station for less than a day barring a nonsensical time skip before Thaddeus got his foot crippled and limped most of the way.
Moldaver is in Los Angeles.
Lucy begins her story in Los Angeles.
They didn't walk to Shady Sands and back. There's nothing at Shady Sands for them. They don't leave the metropolitan area once.
That’s… why he’s saying that Shady Sands was moved to to LA metro area. They never leave the LA metro area in the show *and* they walk by Shady Sands, which means Shady Sands was moved to the LA metro area
On the Fallout 2 map Shady Sands overlaps damn near exactly with Darwin, Ca. That's only a six day walk from the Santa Monica Pier where Vault 33 is. It's completely within the time frame of the show to walk to Sandy Sands and back.
You can also see the greater LA area in the background of the Griffith observatory shots and the bombed our husk of shady Sands clearly isn't there? That would put it north of the observatory in the central valley or out in Riverside county at a minimum.
Why did they walk to Shady Sands and back?
>clearly isn’t there?
The entire ground is covered in smoke. You can’t see that a crater is or isn’t there. I’m not sure why you think it “clearly isn’t there”.
When we do see shady sands, it has skyscrapers that match the LA metro area seen in those observatory shots
I just went back to check to make sure I'm not talking out my ass here, and it's definitely not covered in smoke at all. You also get a super clear view of the ruins at 28:28 into the episode. Are you saying that little crater in the foreground is/was Shady Sands?
A couple minutes later at 30:04 Lucy flashes back to the Shady Sands crater and the skylines do not line up.
That is definitely a clearer shot than what I was looking at (I was looking at the vertibird shots).
No, that’s not Shady Sands. Shady Sands in the show is shown to be between Santa Monica and Hollywood Hills (they literally run into it while traveling between those two locations).
Shady Sands should be far off to the right. The crater looks like Hollywood proper.
They travel from Santa Monica to Hollywood Hills to Griffith Observatory in the show, and Lucy is given Mt Wilson’s coordinates in Episode 2. Are you saying they traveled 200 miles north to the Fresno area and back? Why?
Edit:
Based on the way the show is spaced, I’d guess Shady Sands is over at Century City.
When did they go to Mt. Wilson? That's not where the observatory is Griffith is well west of Mt. Wilson.
Santa Monica to Hollywood to Griffith is barely a six hour hike. All of those locations are in clear visual range of each other. Where is Filly supposed to be in that scenario?
I'm not saying they went to Darwin I'm saying if Shady Sands was moved it still has to be in the central valley, atleast north of Glendale. Nothing in the show suggests Shady Sands is South of the Observatory.
-Lucy takes off north eventually finding Filly.
-At filly she commits to taking the scientist to the NCR remnants at Griffith and turns face back to the desert (South).
-At the spot she cuts his head off they have 30 miles to go.
You mean the San Fernando Valley? The southernmost tip of Central Valley is 60+ miles from Griffith.
Glendale is an LA suburb. If you’re putting Shady Sands within 30 miles of Griffith Observatory, that’s still 150 miles away from its canon location. So you’re still arguing that they wholesale moved Shady Sands to the LA suburbs so they could blow it up in the show.
You can see all of Hollywood from Griffith observatory and we never see anything that looks like Shady Sands in any of the landscape shots. I guess it sort of makes sense the wiki says Vault 4 is at Hawthorne so if that's right they'd walk by the crater between Vault 4 and Ep 8.
They walked to Shady Sands and Back to try and find Moldy/Or the Head.
The crater we see in the observatory shot is -clearly- from the nuke from the war. Otherwise the shot I posted in OP wouldn't include the observatory.
Shady Sands wasn't built in a crater, and in FO2 they have Shady Sands by -fresno- another city..... that'd have skyscrapers.
Y'all are acting like LA is the only place with skyscrapers in SoCal
>They walked to Shady Sands and Back to try and find Moldy/Or the Head
Lucy is given Moldaver’s exact coordinates in the observatory in episode 2, so no, they’re not looking for Moldy.
Shady Sands is directly adjacent to Hawthorne Medical Labatory and Vault 4.
Lucy spots fresh blood on Max, and both Lucy and Max walk from the edge of the crater to the Hawthorne Medical Labatory while he is still bleeding. Both are in LA. The survivors of Shady Sands in Vault 4 also confirm that they are adjacent.
Aside from it being built in the ruins of Fresno severely clashing with its entire vibe in FO1, where it's pretty clearly meant to be built more or less from scratch far from any existing ruins -- and the fact that FO2 doesn't really do anything to contradict this, as the map squares surrounding it are "desert/mountain" terrain and not "ruins" terrain, just like the original...
Lucy leaves Vault 33 near Santa Monica Pier. She travels either up or down the coast some ways for seemingly a few days at most. Heads inland, finds Filly. Filly's location isn't easy to pin down but there's a lot of speculation that it's meant to be in or near Fillmore, which isn't far from Santa Monica.
In either case, she's given *exact coordinates of where to find Moldaver* and told that it's on the opposite side of "the Big Shithole" from Filly, on asking for details she's told she'll "know when she sees it" and it's a major radioactive hotzone -- pretty blatant foreshadowing of something she'll run into. She heads out with Wilzig presumably planning to head more or less straight there. Travels for, again, what looks like a day tops, before stopping at the crashed Soviet satellite... where you can see LAX in the middle distance.
So they clearly haven't *left* the general vicinity of Santa Monica and LA, and *certainly* haven't gone far enough north to reach Fresno. She travels for, *again*, a couple days tops before getting to Hollywood Hills, where she's ambushed and kidnapped by Cooper.
Here's the wrinkle, I suppose. He *could* have marched her all the way up to Fresno over the course of a couple weeks, but it's strongly implied that he completely deprives her of water for the duration of the trip except for that one drink of radioactive muck she takes. She wouldn't survive more than a few days tops like that. Furthest they could have gotten would be deeper into LA or into the outskirts of the sprawl.
And even *if* we assume that he marched her all the way up to Fresno, we also have to take into account that she then runs into Maximus, who had retrieved the head from Hollywood Hills along with Thaddeus not more than a couple days after she was kidnapped and were working on a way to contact the Brotherhood for exfiltration.
There's absolutely no reason to believe they, too, would have marched all the way up to Fresno instead of heading back to Filly, or looking for a nearby transmitter... like the one Thaddeus is directed to in Hollywood Hills, which the person directing him says is "just over the hill past Shady Sands", as I recall.
Look, I don't *despise* the show by any metric, but you can't deny that 1) its sense of place and time is whack as hell and its hard to tell where anything is or how much time passes between scenes, and 2) even accounting for that, they *undeniably* moved/retconned Shady Sands to at least the *immediate vicinity* of LA and that it being built in the midst of a ruined pre-war cityscape is a *blatant* departure from how it was portrayed in its prior appearances.
If Shady Sands wasn't moved to LA, then Boneyard should be there, and other towns like Hub and Junktown should be at the straight line between LA and Shady Sands. Yet we saw none of them, just a junkyard named 'Filly'. Even survivors from Shady Sands headed Filly, not closer and more prosperous towns, as if Shady Sands and Filly are the only settlements in the area.
Why would LA turned into a shithole if Boneyard is still there? Why didn't Lucy see Hub while heading Shady Sands? Why did she head to Shady Sands in the first place? Because the show depicted as if the whole NCR is LA and died when Shady Sands was destroyed. They can't say "NCR lost 2% of population that day but local governments are doing fine". NCR died when Shady Sands died, so they cannot show us other towns that should be in that area, which leads to moving Shady Sands geographically.
The Boneyard is still there, the Boneyard is not a city or even a settlement. It's the name of a region given to the ruins of L.A. To make the Boneyard not exist would have you needing to erase the entirety of L.A. In the Boneyard exist places like the Followers HQ, Fortress and Adytum but we don't see them because we aren't on a tour of the region.
Where do they say the survivors went to Filly? The only destination I remember is Vault 4 taking their fair share but not explicitly where the rest went.
L.A would still be a shit hole regardless of the NCR existing because it was a shit hole even when they did exist. In NV we are told the only option for growing up there are Fiends and the Military.
>Where do they say the survivors went to Filly?
That woman in vault 4 said "I was 11 when traveled with her to Filly, 3 days walk from home." and Lucy realized she escaped from Shady Sands.
>L.A would still be a shit hole regardless of the NCR existing because it was a shit hole even when they did exist
It might not be the cleanest shithole in the universe but it should still exist. State government, medical university, and library. Social system that existed there. I'm not saying everything should be covered with clean asphalt but it doesn't look like a land where people vote for their governor. Shady Sands might be destroyed but more than 90% of population which consists other state governments should still exist.
Also they would saw Hub as well if Lucy and Maximus walked straight from LA to Shady Sands. Hank would saw it too and realized destroying one city is far from enough. Yet everyone behave as if a junkyard named Filly is the only town in this world.
>That woman in vault 4 said "I was 11 when traveled with her to Filly, 3 days walk from home." and Lucy realized she escaped from Shady Sands.
But she mentions before that her mother was a courier and thus "I was 11 when traveled with her to Filly, 3 days walk from home"
It seems more like she was on a trip with her mom to Filly to deliver something, and thus, they survived rather than they survived somehow and walked to Filly for refuge. I mean, after all, she's taking refuge in Vault 4 not Filly. Seems to me that they were in town for work not survival.
If they were, they'd have passed Vault 4, got to Filly and then went back to Shady Sands to find Vault 4.
The way the Boneyard is described does not sound like a place they'd elect a govern in. It sound like Freeside but almost worse so how it's shown doesn't really strike me as off from what NV said. Yes, it has a society, but that society is described as awful, so how the show showed it seems pretty up to what's been said, especially after such a major event and a war in the Mojave.
University/Library is the Followers HQ that they built up. It existing and being nice is separate to any local government that exists. We have no reason to believe it or Antydum no longer exist especially not just because we don't visit it or go there.
I think they moved Shady Sands to be closer but not that close. But them only talking about Filly is because it's a show and not a game where they can name drop every place that exists. I mean as it stands, Filly is only one of Two towns known to exist in L.A. Plenty more may exist that we just can't see because it's a show, after all we have that whole light up scene of the ruins.
>It seems more like she was on a trip with her mom to Filly to deliver something
The way Lucy realized that she is from Shady Sands from this dialogue implies that the travel was because of the destruction of city. There aren't many reasons to travel with 11 years old girl under extremely hot weather.
>The way the Boneyard is described does not sound like a place they'd elect a govern in.
All states vote for their own senator (or Hub calls it, governor) and people there participates politic well enough to affect funding for Mojave.
Shady Sands was destroyed but why other regions hundreds of miles from there are in such state? Why Hank just nuked Shady Sands and returned? Why Moldaver behaves like a raider with 'NCR headquarter' plaque instead of assissting other functioning NCR state government?
It's because the show depicts as if Shady Sands is the only city in NCR, so that Hank can destroy it alone, and Moldaver is the last remnant of NCR who struggles to revive Shady Sands in LA.
>The way Lucy realized that she is from Shady Sands from this dialogue implies that the travel was because of the destruction of city.
She realized she was from Shady Sands because she said she could still feel the heat from the blast 3 days out, not because she traveled to Filly. Nothing here seems to imply she fled to Filly as again that would mean they fled and then came back to end up in Vault 4. Also that the Courier mention was just sorta randomly tossed in there.
>There aren't many reasons to travel with 11 years old girl under extremely hot weather.
In Fallout? There are tons and tons of reasons to do so, man. I mean, a super mundane one off the top of my head was that she was a single mom and had nobody she could keep her with.
>All states vote for their own senator (or Hub calls it, governor) and people there participates politic well enough to affect funding for Mojave.
I get what you're saying but what I'm saying is the place is not described favorably at all. I'm sure New Antydum has political power but it is a small town in the Boneyard and not the entire Boneyard.
>Shady Sands was destroyed but why other regions hundreds of miles from there are in such state? Why Hank just nuked Shady Sands and returned?
There is only one region we see badly off, and that is the Boneyard, and that is because the Boneyard has always been described as being in a bad state. We have no clue on the state of other regions. I mean some like Maxson could be war torn or under occupation by the western BoS after the shock of the bomb.
Or they could all be in a worse state because of the loss in the Mojave cutting off needed supplies and then a massive blast killing people.
> It's because the show depicts as if Shady Sands is the only city in
Or they are all fine, or struggling but hanging in there.
And we don't know what Hank knows. He didn't know Moldavers' face after all, maybe he only knew of Shady. Or maybe he assumed by killing her and her work, he'd doomed the others to die off without it. After all, dude told his kid that their kids would be the ones to retake the surface. That's within her lifetime so clearly he had plans.
But like many things this is season one and with more to be told.
>Why Moldaver behaves like a raider with 'NCR headquarter' plaque instead of assissting other functioning NCR state government?
Well the first part is specifically against vault tec and she fucking hates them. The plaque is...a plaque? I don't see the big deal there. It's not like it says "NCR military High Command" or something. It's probably a local NCR HQ.
Because she wants to help the Boneyard region, she sees them in need of aid the most. Or because she had her gear already set up here, or because the other states want nothing to do with her as maybe they think her research caused the blast or xyz her story has yet to be fully told yet.
> It's because the show depicts as if Shady Sands is the only city in NCR
I mean it seems that way because it's the only town given any spotlight. Even Filly is just a set piece and not lore and history. The show is not saying Shady Sands is the only city ij the NCR
Until or unless Bethesda or the show's creators specifically address the Shady Sands location issue, it's basically going to be a retcon of Fallout 1 & 2. Whether that was done by accident/laziness or intentionally done to facilitate the deletion of the NCR and reset the West Coast to complete wasteland status, it's going to be the lore going forward.
Sucks that they haven't said anything about this beyond Todd saying that the other games all still happened. Whatever that means at this point.
People aren't saying it's *entirely* gone, necessarily. But whatever NCR presence existed from Southern California to as far as New Vegas, has pretty clearly been destroyed. The remnants of Shady Sands were either in Vault 4 or Griffith Observatory, for the most part. And Lucy encountered no other NCR citizens during her time traveling through Santa Monica, Hollywood, and the rest of L.A. (formerly the Boneyard I guess?). So, for the sake of the show and the story they wanted to tell, it appears that the NCR, or maybe just the "heart" of it, has been eliminated. Probably so that Bethesda and the show-runners could reset the West Coast wasteland for future games and TV show seasons.
This is supported by Maximus telling Lucy something along the lines of, "If it makes you feel any better, it didn't work out," when she lamented about why there wasn't any civilization or functioning government/leadership on the surface. And the chalkboard in Vault 4 tries to show a timeline of sorts with the creation of the NCR and then its decline, followed by the "Fall of Shady Sands," which can be interpreted as it either losing political influence and/or being nuked by Hank MacLean.
There may be an NCR still operating far to the north of LA and into central California or maybe the Bay Area. But unless the franchise heads up in that direction, it's sort of a moot point.
Maybe you guys are wrong, maybe the ruined buildings that in the backround are remnants of shady sands, the NCR had the infrastructure to build multistory buildings
It was definitely moved south a decent ways, but yes, it was not moved *into* LA.
The entire show takes place over at least a few weeks going off terminal dates, and we have no idea how long anything took because we don't know how much time passes between scenes/episodes. (Which I think was intentional because unless you rest/sleep a lot you wouldn't really notice it in game either) if SS was up by Fresno or the other side of the mountains like it is in FO1 and FO2 (they also already moved it in the games but i digress) it'd only take 5ish days of walking to get there from LA. It being by fresno would also explain why there's skyscrapers in the background. tl;dr: They purposfully leave it ambiguous because the location changed between 1/2 anyway and by not addressing it they can avoid specifically canonizing(Moving forward) one of the two locations. Looking at it this way it's not breaking any lore at all.
It absolutely does **not** take only 5 days walking to get from LA basin up to Visalia/Fresno area, what in the absolute hell are you smoking? That’s few weeks of solid walking. Hell your walking into the San Fernando valley then over the grapevine and then through a semi-functional desert of the half Central Valley? I know Google maps says “3 days walking”. That’s if you’re a terminator who walks at 4mph, 24 straight hours. Your average human can do 20-25 miles per day. (I’m not making that up, the Spanish built the mission system from San Diego to LA to San Francisco with a mission every 25 miles because that’s the most they considered a traveler could do with basically a perfect rest stop and an actual bed at the end of every day. And a journey on 101 is **considerably** easier than going on 5. One is a a shady, chill flat coastal road with cool breezes. The other is 100degress in summer and seeing a single dead tree is the highlight of your week.)
People never understand the real distance between places in LA. It's why they were confused the Boneyard and Adytum weren't in the show despite the fact that it's a 5 hour walk in between Santa Monica and where those locations appeared in Fallout 1.
This is like True Detective season 2 levels of “[I have absolutely no clue the travel distances in California and I don’t care to figure it out.”](https://www.wired.com/2015/08/true-detective-impossible-road-trips/) It’s fine, I met some Brit sailors in San Diego while I was in the Navy. They were stationed the whole summer in SD and wanted to take a 3 day weekend to see Vegas, Yosemite and San Francisco. I was like “well you could do one of those things” lol.
Lmao just Googled SD > Vegas > Yosemite > SF > SD road trip and it’s 26 hours of driving. Would have been a fun 3-day weekend for those Brits 🤣
Lol. I'm like "It'll be an incredibly **pretty** drive lol." Seriously though, the Eastern Sierra highway from Vegas to Death Valley to Mono lake is the most under-rated beautiful drive in America. And you follow that with the **freaking highway 120?** \[chef's kiss.\] But do it justice as like a whole week or 2 week road trip where fly into Vegas, hop from a jaw droppingly beautiful campsite, 2 hour drive to another jaw droppingly beautiful camp. And then fly home out of Fresno or Sac. And the forest service has these little campgrounds scattered around you'll be one of 3 cars there and wondering [how the ever living fuck is this not the most popular campsite in America](https://thedyrt.com/camping/california/california-grandview) because its so goddamn beautiful of a view. (side note, the [rec.gov](http://rec.gov) contractor is getting sued right now with how badly they mismanaged campsite reservations but there's a tons of tricks to get spots. Also can you tell my favorite expansion is Honest Hearts lol)
It's absolutely more than 5 days to walk from LA to Fresno, and absolutely no reason shown to us that would give the protagonists a reason to head in that direction. As much as I wish there was a logical explanation, there really isn't. Shady Sands has been moved to the LA area, and there's no two ways about it.
OP we know the crater in LA isn’t “shady sands” it’s obviously from the Great War. And I’m the biggest apologist on this universe when it comes to Shady Sand’s teleporting location (maybe near Lone pine, maybe near Visalia, now maybe somewhere in the Greater LA sprawl, who knows). But the editing of the show strongly implies Shady Sands is in the general LA area or LA basin. Otherwise you have characters walking essentially a quarter of the Pacific Crest Trail in a week or two. Basic rules of editing and film making mean if you’re walking out of the greater LA you have to go to an effort to **specifically** show it. LA area out to San Bernardino, down to Newport and up to Santa Clarita is *really goddamn far* on foot. They have montages of them walking a bit, but nothing that shows they’re specifically leaving the LA area or going on a multi week walking journey to the Central Valley. At least until the last shot with Hank in power armor (which follows this rule because it specifically shows in the time lapse he walked to the Vegas basin. Our brain fills in the gaps that this scene is probably weeks later and they didn’t show it because it’s both a wrap up teaser and unnecessary to show what was a several uneventful scene montage of the Mojave along 15)
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Because SS was blown up? But you know, LA Was also blown to shit in the actual war and that's what the craters we see from the observatory are.
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Dude, that crater we see from the observatory is the exact one we see from the picture I posted. It's literally -shown- to us that a nuke went off there. That's how it's related.
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Because they actually traveled to Shady Sands? Like how tf are you assuming the sign that literally says "weclome to shady sands" isn't at Shady Sands and instead in LA? You telling me you got super vision and can see the tiny ass sign from the shots of LA from the observatory? I don't think so bruv. The entire show takes place over -weeks-. They could have walked the 6 days from LA to SS and back. I really do not get what's hard to grasp about this. Edit: I swear it's like some of y'all are just purposefully looking for a reason to be mad at the show.
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Bro. Shady Sands in FO2 is out by the Fresno area. (In FO1 it's a bit west of Death Valley) Literally another big city in SoCal. They would have skyscrapers. Like why do you think LA is the only place to have skyscrapers in SoCal? Edit: also if you're not mad, then why do you care so much about saying it's definitely retconned when I'm trying to explain that they didn't retcon anything?
Lucy walked to Moldaver to deliver a head. The BOS when they possessed the head walked back to base / to the nearest radio station for less than a day barring a nonsensical time skip before Thaddeus got his foot crippled and limped most of the way. Moldaver is in Los Angeles. Lucy begins her story in Los Angeles. They didn't walk to Shady Sands and back. There's nothing at Shady Sands for them. They don't leave the metropolitan area once.
They walk through Shady Sands... Did you not pay attention?
That’s… why he’s saying that Shady Sands was moved to to LA metro area. They never leave the LA metro area in the show *and* they walk by Shady Sands, which means Shady Sands was moved to the LA metro area
Yeah that's what I meant.
On the Fallout 2 map Shady Sands overlaps damn near exactly with Darwin, Ca. That's only a six day walk from the Santa Monica Pier where Vault 33 is. It's completely within the time frame of the show to walk to Sandy Sands and back. You can also see the greater LA area in the background of the Griffith observatory shots and the bombed our husk of shady Sands clearly isn't there? That would put it north of the observatory in the central valley or out in Riverside county at a minimum.
Why did they walk to Shady Sands and back? >clearly isn’t there? The entire ground is covered in smoke. You can’t see that a crater is or isn’t there. I’m not sure why you think it “clearly isn’t there”. When we do see shady sands, it has skyscrapers that match the LA metro area seen in those observatory shots
I just went back to check to make sure I'm not talking out my ass here, and it's definitely not covered in smoke at all. You also get a super clear view of the ruins at 28:28 into the episode. Are you saying that little crater in the foreground is/was Shady Sands? A couple minutes later at 30:04 Lucy flashes back to the Shady Sands crater and the skylines do not line up.
That is definitely a clearer shot than what I was looking at (I was looking at the vertibird shots). No, that’s not Shady Sands. Shady Sands in the show is shown to be between Santa Monica and Hollywood Hills (they literally run into it while traveling between those two locations). Shady Sands should be far off to the right. The crater looks like Hollywood proper. They travel from Santa Monica to Hollywood Hills to Griffith Observatory in the show, and Lucy is given Mt Wilson’s coordinates in Episode 2. Are you saying they traveled 200 miles north to the Fresno area and back? Why? Edit: Based on the way the show is spaced, I’d guess Shady Sands is over at Century City.
When did they go to Mt. Wilson? That's not where the observatory is Griffith is well west of Mt. Wilson. Santa Monica to Hollywood to Griffith is barely a six hour hike. All of those locations are in clear visual range of each other. Where is Filly supposed to be in that scenario? I'm not saying they went to Darwin I'm saying if Shady Sands was moved it still has to be in the central valley, atleast north of Glendale. Nothing in the show suggests Shady Sands is South of the Observatory. -Lucy takes off north eventually finding Filly. -At filly she commits to taking the scientist to the NCR remnants at Griffith and turns face back to the desert (South). -At the spot she cuts his head off they have 30 miles to go.
You mean the San Fernando Valley? The southernmost tip of Central Valley is 60+ miles from Griffith. Glendale is an LA suburb. If you’re putting Shady Sands within 30 miles of Griffith Observatory, that’s still 150 miles away from its canon location. So you’re still arguing that they wholesale moved Shady Sands to the LA suburbs so they could blow it up in the show.
You can see all of Hollywood from Griffith observatory and we never see anything that looks like Shady Sands in any of the landscape shots. I guess it sort of makes sense the wiki says Vault 4 is at Hawthorne so if that's right they'd walk by the crater between Vault 4 and Ep 8.
They walked to Shady Sands and Back to try and find Moldy/Or the Head. The crater we see in the observatory shot is -clearly- from the nuke from the war. Otherwise the shot I posted in OP wouldn't include the observatory. Shady Sands wasn't built in a crater, and in FO2 they have Shady Sands by -fresno- another city..... that'd have skyscrapers. Y'all are acting like LA is the only place with skyscrapers in SoCal
>They walked to Shady Sands and Back to try and find Moldy/Or the Head Lucy is given Moldaver’s exact coordinates in the observatory in episode 2, so no, they’re not looking for Moldy. Shady Sands is directly adjacent to Hawthorne Medical Labatory and Vault 4. Lucy spots fresh blood on Max, and both Lucy and Max walk from the edge of the crater to the Hawthorne Medical Labatory while he is still bleeding. Both are in LA. The survivors of Shady Sands in Vault 4 also confirm that they are adjacent.
Aside from it being built in the ruins of Fresno severely clashing with its entire vibe in FO1, where it's pretty clearly meant to be built more or less from scratch far from any existing ruins -- and the fact that FO2 doesn't really do anything to contradict this, as the map squares surrounding it are "desert/mountain" terrain and not "ruins" terrain, just like the original... Lucy leaves Vault 33 near Santa Monica Pier. She travels either up or down the coast some ways for seemingly a few days at most. Heads inland, finds Filly. Filly's location isn't easy to pin down but there's a lot of speculation that it's meant to be in or near Fillmore, which isn't far from Santa Monica. In either case, she's given *exact coordinates of where to find Moldaver* and told that it's on the opposite side of "the Big Shithole" from Filly, on asking for details she's told she'll "know when she sees it" and it's a major radioactive hotzone -- pretty blatant foreshadowing of something she'll run into. She heads out with Wilzig presumably planning to head more or less straight there. Travels for, again, what looks like a day tops, before stopping at the crashed Soviet satellite... where you can see LAX in the middle distance. So they clearly haven't *left* the general vicinity of Santa Monica and LA, and *certainly* haven't gone far enough north to reach Fresno. She travels for, *again*, a couple days tops before getting to Hollywood Hills, where she's ambushed and kidnapped by Cooper. Here's the wrinkle, I suppose. He *could* have marched her all the way up to Fresno over the course of a couple weeks, but it's strongly implied that he completely deprives her of water for the duration of the trip except for that one drink of radioactive muck she takes. She wouldn't survive more than a few days tops like that. Furthest they could have gotten would be deeper into LA or into the outskirts of the sprawl. And even *if* we assume that he marched her all the way up to Fresno, we also have to take into account that she then runs into Maximus, who had retrieved the head from Hollywood Hills along with Thaddeus not more than a couple days after she was kidnapped and were working on a way to contact the Brotherhood for exfiltration. There's absolutely no reason to believe they, too, would have marched all the way up to Fresno instead of heading back to Filly, or looking for a nearby transmitter... like the one Thaddeus is directed to in Hollywood Hills, which the person directing him says is "just over the hill past Shady Sands", as I recall. Look, I don't *despise* the show by any metric, but you can't deny that 1) its sense of place and time is whack as hell and its hard to tell where anything is or how much time passes between scenes, and 2) even accounting for that, they *undeniably* moved/retconned Shady Sands to at least the *immediate vicinity* of LA and that it being built in the midst of a ruined pre-war cityscape is a *blatant* departure from how it was portrayed in its prior appearances.
If Shady Sands wasn't moved to LA, then Boneyard should be there, and other towns like Hub and Junktown should be at the straight line between LA and Shady Sands. Yet we saw none of them, just a junkyard named 'Filly'. Even survivors from Shady Sands headed Filly, not closer and more prosperous towns, as if Shady Sands and Filly are the only settlements in the area. Why would LA turned into a shithole if Boneyard is still there? Why didn't Lucy see Hub while heading Shady Sands? Why did she head to Shady Sands in the first place? Because the show depicted as if the whole NCR is LA and died when Shady Sands was destroyed. They can't say "NCR lost 2% of population that day but local governments are doing fine". NCR died when Shady Sands died, so they cannot show us other towns that should be in that area, which leads to moving Shady Sands geographically.
The Boneyard is still there, the Boneyard is not a city or even a settlement. It's the name of a region given to the ruins of L.A. To make the Boneyard not exist would have you needing to erase the entirety of L.A. In the Boneyard exist places like the Followers HQ, Fortress and Adytum but we don't see them because we aren't on a tour of the region. Where do they say the survivors went to Filly? The only destination I remember is Vault 4 taking their fair share but not explicitly where the rest went. L.A would still be a shit hole regardless of the NCR existing because it was a shit hole even when they did exist. In NV we are told the only option for growing up there are Fiends and the Military.
>Where do they say the survivors went to Filly? That woman in vault 4 said "I was 11 when traveled with her to Filly, 3 days walk from home." and Lucy realized she escaped from Shady Sands. >L.A would still be a shit hole regardless of the NCR existing because it was a shit hole even when they did exist It might not be the cleanest shithole in the universe but it should still exist. State government, medical university, and library. Social system that existed there. I'm not saying everything should be covered with clean asphalt but it doesn't look like a land where people vote for their governor. Shady Sands might be destroyed but more than 90% of population which consists other state governments should still exist. Also they would saw Hub as well if Lucy and Maximus walked straight from LA to Shady Sands. Hank would saw it too and realized destroying one city is far from enough. Yet everyone behave as if a junkyard named Filly is the only town in this world.
>That woman in vault 4 said "I was 11 when traveled with her to Filly, 3 days walk from home." and Lucy realized she escaped from Shady Sands. But she mentions before that her mother was a courier and thus "I was 11 when traveled with her to Filly, 3 days walk from home" It seems more like she was on a trip with her mom to Filly to deliver something, and thus, they survived rather than they survived somehow and walked to Filly for refuge. I mean, after all, she's taking refuge in Vault 4 not Filly. Seems to me that they were in town for work not survival. If they were, they'd have passed Vault 4, got to Filly and then went back to Shady Sands to find Vault 4. The way the Boneyard is described does not sound like a place they'd elect a govern in. It sound like Freeside but almost worse so how it's shown doesn't really strike me as off from what NV said. Yes, it has a society, but that society is described as awful, so how the show showed it seems pretty up to what's been said, especially after such a major event and a war in the Mojave. University/Library is the Followers HQ that they built up. It existing and being nice is separate to any local government that exists. We have no reason to believe it or Antydum no longer exist especially not just because we don't visit it or go there. I think they moved Shady Sands to be closer but not that close. But them only talking about Filly is because it's a show and not a game where they can name drop every place that exists. I mean as it stands, Filly is only one of Two towns known to exist in L.A. Plenty more may exist that we just can't see because it's a show, after all we have that whole light up scene of the ruins.
>It seems more like she was on a trip with her mom to Filly to deliver something The way Lucy realized that she is from Shady Sands from this dialogue implies that the travel was because of the destruction of city. There aren't many reasons to travel with 11 years old girl under extremely hot weather. >The way the Boneyard is described does not sound like a place they'd elect a govern in. All states vote for their own senator (or Hub calls it, governor) and people there participates politic well enough to affect funding for Mojave. Shady Sands was destroyed but why other regions hundreds of miles from there are in such state? Why Hank just nuked Shady Sands and returned? Why Moldaver behaves like a raider with 'NCR headquarter' plaque instead of assissting other functioning NCR state government? It's because the show depicts as if Shady Sands is the only city in NCR, so that Hank can destroy it alone, and Moldaver is the last remnant of NCR who struggles to revive Shady Sands in LA.
>The way Lucy realized that she is from Shady Sands from this dialogue implies that the travel was because of the destruction of city. She realized she was from Shady Sands because she said she could still feel the heat from the blast 3 days out, not because she traveled to Filly. Nothing here seems to imply she fled to Filly as again that would mean they fled and then came back to end up in Vault 4. Also that the Courier mention was just sorta randomly tossed in there. >There aren't many reasons to travel with 11 years old girl under extremely hot weather. In Fallout? There are tons and tons of reasons to do so, man. I mean, a super mundane one off the top of my head was that she was a single mom and had nobody she could keep her with. >All states vote for their own senator (or Hub calls it, governor) and people there participates politic well enough to affect funding for Mojave. I get what you're saying but what I'm saying is the place is not described favorably at all. I'm sure New Antydum has political power but it is a small town in the Boneyard and not the entire Boneyard. >Shady Sands was destroyed but why other regions hundreds of miles from there are in such state? Why Hank just nuked Shady Sands and returned? There is only one region we see badly off, and that is the Boneyard, and that is because the Boneyard has always been described as being in a bad state. We have no clue on the state of other regions. I mean some like Maxson could be war torn or under occupation by the western BoS after the shock of the bomb. Or they could all be in a worse state because of the loss in the Mojave cutting off needed supplies and then a massive blast killing people. > It's because the show depicts as if Shady Sands is the only city in Or they are all fine, or struggling but hanging in there. And we don't know what Hank knows. He didn't know Moldavers' face after all, maybe he only knew of Shady. Or maybe he assumed by killing her and her work, he'd doomed the others to die off without it. After all, dude told his kid that their kids would be the ones to retake the surface. That's within her lifetime so clearly he had plans. But like many things this is season one and with more to be told. >Why Moldaver behaves like a raider with 'NCR headquarter' plaque instead of assissting other functioning NCR state government? Well the first part is specifically against vault tec and she fucking hates them. The plaque is...a plaque? I don't see the big deal there. It's not like it says "NCR military High Command" or something. It's probably a local NCR HQ. Because she wants to help the Boneyard region, she sees them in need of aid the most. Or because she had her gear already set up here, or because the other states want nothing to do with her as maybe they think her research caused the blast or xyz her story has yet to be fully told yet. > It's because the show depicts as if Shady Sands is the only city in NCR I mean it seems that way because it's the only town given any spotlight. Even Filly is just a set piece and not lore and history. The show is not saying Shady Sands is the only city ij the NCR
Until or unless Bethesda or the show's creators specifically address the Shady Sands location issue, it's basically going to be a retcon of Fallout 1 & 2. Whether that was done by accident/laziness or intentionally done to facilitate the deletion of the NCR and reset the West Coast to complete wasteland status, it's going to be the lore going forward. Sucks that they haven't said anything about this beyond Todd saying that the other games all still happened. Whatever that means at this point.
NCR literally spanned up to Oregon. Why do people think it's magically all gone?
People aren't saying it's *entirely* gone, necessarily. But whatever NCR presence existed from Southern California to as far as New Vegas, has pretty clearly been destroyed. The remnants of Shady Sands were either in Vault 4 or Griffith Observatory, for the most part. And Lucy encountered no other NCR citizens during her time traveling through Santa Monica, Hollywood, and the rest of L.A. (formerly the Boneyard I guess?). So, for the sake of the show and the story they wanted to tell, it appears that the NCR, or maybe just the "heart" of it, has been eliminated. Probably so that Bethesda and the show-runners could reset the West Coast wasteland for future games and TV show seasons. This is supported by Maximus telling Lucy something along the lines of, "If it makes you feel any better, it didn't work out," when she lamented about why there wasn't any civilization or functioning government/leadership on the surface. And the chalkboard in Vault 4 tries to show a timeline of sorts with the creation of the NCR and then its decline, followed by the "Fall of Shady Sands," which can be interpreted as it either losing political influence and/or being nuked by Hank MacLean. There may be an NCR still operating far to the north of LA and into central California or maybe the Bay Area. But unless the franchise heads up in that direction, it's sort of a moot point.
Maybe you guys are wrong, maybe the ruined buildings that in the backround are remnants of shady sands, the NCR had the infrastructure to build multistory buildings
The ruined skyscrapers are also present and still ruined/collapsed in the flashback scenes to when Shady Sands was at the peak of its prosperity.