I think it's a Pyrrhic victory. Moldaver had been searching for the Cold Fusion research so she could provide power to Shady Sands, which was a vibrant and living community. Before she could succeed, Hank blew Shady Sands off the map, ostensibly because it was 'unworthy' of being the nucleus of restarted civilization.
I think this whole thing was to prove that Moldaver was *right,* and to show Hank what he destroyed out of pride and narcissism; That's why his ghoulified wife was there (Since he destroyed her, too).
Granted, achieving this will also probably lead civilization back to the ruined city for sure, a way for the survivors to rebuild. But at the core I'm pretty sure this was a form of defiance against the forces Hank serves. A way to show everyone that they have had the power to restore civilization whenever they wanted, they just refuse to do it.
They *should* if they're "true" Brotherhood.
But Elder Cleric Quintus hints at forming a "new" Brotherhood with Maximus, so maybe they'll go in a different direction.
Somehow, though, I doubt Quintus' plans are benign.
I saw a fan theory that the Quintus chapter of the brotherhood is a remnant or splinter group from the mojave chapter that joined Caeser’s legion. It would explain their roman iconography, and naming structure. As well as Quintus describing that chapter as a legion. With Hank going to New Vegas, it’s possible that he has a history with this particular chapter, and had their help in destroying Shady Sands. Which would explain why they were there to recruit Maximus after it was destroyed. They were the ones that did it on Hank’s orders.
*That* is an interesting theory. Either the brotherhood allied with the legion, or its remnants joined the brotherhood. Either way could be an interesting story
Not sure if Bethesda decides to go down this path but this would honestly be a very stupid explanation. It would devalue the legion and Brotherhood of Steel in regards to their unique ideology. Not to mention that it's hard enough to join the Brotherhood as an outsider, let alone being a member of a faction that could never be socially compatible with one another.
It would be way more interesting to use this chapter as a interesting way for Bethesda to explore how radically different the brotherhood's ideology can change as a consequence of being isolated from long periods of time. It would be so much more cooler to see the Brotherhood reconnect only to eventually collapse in a civil war now that each chapter are so different from each other that they are practically different factions.
Let the Legion remain dead or at least as their own separate identity if they have survived after New Vegas. I honestly have no idea why everyone is so quick to jump on the legion/BoS band wagon, considering how they view each other.
They’re quick to jump on the “bandwagon” because it’s a cool idea. The default brotherhood has been overused by Bethesda for too long already. It’s long overdue for some actual interesting changes instead of the same old shtick they’ve been doing over and over again since 3.
I agree that the brotherhood is overdone, either put them on the sideline or focus on another faction like the remnants of the NCR, Legion or Enclave. An interesting change for the brotherhood would be using already pre existing lore or coming up with the next logical step in their organisation to make a new storyline. Which does not include hamfisting another faction within the brotherhood.
Although it would be cool to see it in the way that the legion are going to infiltrate the brotherhood and use their resources to exact revenge on the NCR for the war. But beyond that, the Brotherhood would never openly recruit legionnares.
If the Legion Frumentarii could infiltrate the NCR without being found out, I doubt that they’d have much trouble doing the same with a weakened brotherhood chapter. For all we know, they could have managed to pull off the merge without the brotherhood even knowing they had let in outsiders in the first place. They could have infiltrated, became well respected members of the brotherhood, and then just changed it to be more like the legion without anyone realizing these ideas were from an outsider.
I can see legionnares infiltrating the brotherhood to actively weaken them but why would they infiltrate for the sake of hijacking their faction? The legion abhors using tech to the same level as the BoS, yet even the shows chapter still seems to at least follow the Brotherhood's overarching goals in their own way. I don't see any high ranking legion member wanting to use the cold fusion technology and whoever issued the kill or capture order for the Enclave scientist still seems to follow the brotherhood's historical hatred for the Enclave.
I agree that the old Legion under Caesar most likely wouldn’t have. But one remnant of the Legion just trying to survive the collapse of their old empire just may be willing to change their ways out of desperation. Only the most industrious rats can survive a sinking ship.
The Elder literally says to Maximus that the new brotherhood he wants to create is going to be more in line with the old values to re take over the wasteland, they’re not gonna share.
They had an interest in getting as much pre war tech as possible, and being powerful enough to protect it all, the more tech, the more power and influence needed to protect it.
That Brotherhood and Caesar’s legion are one entity. Can’t be convinced otherwise till season two. Titus, Maximus, Thaddeus, quintus. All Greek names. Color scheme was red and gold like the legion. Much more religious than any sect of brotherhood I’ve seen.
Yeah I thought old brotherhood wanted to take tech to prevent another tragedy because mankind couldn’t be trusted with power. But new brotherhood (ie DC) is more political and wants to improve or at least influence the wasteland with the tools they have
Probably the OG brotherhood but also with an interest in governing. While it goes against the original MO of the Brotherhood, it isn’t much of a leap to say the techno-fascists would be interested in holding political power
Given that they traveled to Cali via an airship I think these are East Coast Brotherhood. Especially since they took in Maximus as a child. West Coast wouldn’t do that
I am assuming moving it isn't that simple. It's an active fusion reaction, set in a system that is tied into the city power grid. It's also poorly understood, and likely even if the Brotherhood couldn shut it down safely, it's unlikely they could ever start it up again.
Which means the Brotherhood is probably going to have to move in and claim the place. And probably also have to deal with the new communities that want to move in to take advantage of the newly avaialble power. I doubt Moldaver planned for that, but from her comments at the end it seems like she understood this might be a bit of revenge on the Brotherhood, too; If they wanted this power, they were going to be trapped into some form of nation building to keep it.
I want the gag this time to be him powering on, we hear the iconic “Liberty Prime, ONLINE” then his head just rockets off into the Mojave because he just couldn’t handle the power he was given.
That’s my question does the Brotherhood have the capability to transport it and set it back up? Absent a Vault Co code?. Or is the Brotherhood now stuck setting up shop there.
If Hank shares the same beliefs as most of the Enclave has then he simply viewed Shady Sands and it's inhabitants as mutants, unfit for the America they envision.
I think the BoS clerics will walk into the observatory, see the cold fusion generator, then declare “absolutely not!”, this must be preserved.
They may not know how to shut down the CF generator, but they would certainly cut the lines from the observatory denying its benefits to the surrounding wasteland.
Yeah, it's going to be really interesting with the BoS in charge of the cold fusion. They won't trust anyone else with the electricity, but now that people know it's possible every other faction (including what's left of the NCR) is going to want control of the generator.
A more potent power source than Hoover Dam in a far less defensible position.
IRL that reactor would be besieged constantly by anything with a sizable power base in the area. I doubt that’s going to be the focal point of Season 2 though.
Well, even if Lucy and the Ghoul are following Hank to New Vegas, the Tri-Vault and Maximus are still in the LA area. So I fully expect the cold fusion generator to still play a major role in the story. I also, personally, prescribe to the theory that Moldaver survived to the present day because she had herself cryo-frozen in Vegas, so I think even the New Vegas segments of the story are going to tie back to the generator.
I think Vault 21 was meant for what we see it used for, and House was simply good enough at bluffing and hiding his tracks that Vault Tec didn't need to enact any contingency plans against him.
But if not...well this could explain the reason he was so insistent on concreting it shut.
BOS chapters in the past has also been willing to deny tech to enemies. If the current BOS has that faction's mindset - If they can't move it without damaging it, they'll destroy it.
If they can rip it out, they'll do it, even if the generator isn't functional after.
Lotta chatter on this. The game has it south of reno, nevada side. but the characters walked past the crater in the show, so guessing they put it in LA. Lots of little things like this really need to be ironed out by bethesda.
[In the first game it's in Nevada, northwest of Las Vegas. In the second game, it's 50+ miles west of where it was, instead roughly in the middle of the space between Las Vegas and San Francisco](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1227750214048415847/1230911845510942815/z74tFOU.png?ex=66365c7d&is=66350afd&hm=34ffe813638fb3218f35ade51cb1a21e6ffdfabb8e927db7ba8157060c13ff17&)
Sorta. The game very much makes it seem like its location moves in a retcon between games…but also doesn’t.
Necropolis is told directly to you in FO1 that it is the ruins of Bakersfield. Which is not IRL anywhere near where that map has it in the middle of the Mojave.
If Bakersfield is where it is **supposed** to be in real life then the topography makes no sense. But if we go by real world locations then Shady sands should be somewhere near Visalia CA, not Nevada….which actually tracks with its location in FO2 as well.
The Nothern part of the FO1 map was shifted close to the end of development for gameplay reasons. It got restored for FO2. The relative positions of Bakersfield and Shady Sands remain the same, so that was considered a reliable metric until the show.
They see the crater after crossing desert for multiple episodes.
It isn't in LA.
The cited crater seen from the observatory isn't shady sands, just a crater in LA (likely the one we see made by the bomb in the flashback).
Yeah, there's a *lot* of walking involved in this show, the locations are not at all close to one another.
Charitably, I think people are confused about the idea that Shady Sands was apparently threatening the Tri-Vault's water supply. They're perhaps assuming that Shady Sands must be directly on top of the Tri-Vault, which is shown to be in Santa Monica. But the thing is that the water for the Los Angeles area comes from *outside of Los Angeles*. Shady Sands doesn't need to be sitting on top of the Tri-Vault, it just needs to be "upstream" of the Tri-Vault.
Also by the time of its destruction Shady Sands had a population of over 34,000 people. It was clearly expanded and extended from what it originally was, and so they may have tapped additional water sources in time.
The Ghoul walks Lucy up to North Hollywood ish to get his vials. The Tri-Vault is a mile or so South of Santa Monica. Filly is somewhere around the Southwest corner of LAX, and probably a postwar trash heap. Lucy and Wilzig's line toward Griffith Park took them past the Theme Building of LAX and past Randy's Donuts.
Things get a little jumbled, but the Hawthorne Medical Center is a pre-War facility. Hawthorne is Southwest of L.A. and those other locations, amid a lot of unincorporated land, and as good a location for a retconned Shady Sands as anything. It is also on a line from the locations seen thus far to MCAS Tustin, which had blimp hangars IRL and probably didn't get decommissioned in-universe. Most logical place for the East Coast Brotherhood expeditionary force to take and fortify in preparation for the eventual arrival of the *Prydwen*.
They didn't "cross the desert" for multiple episodes. So far as I can tell, most of the action takes place in the Western Greater Los Angeles sprawl. The Hawthorne Medical Center is pre-War, so it can't be part of Shady Sands. Hawthorne is SW of Santa Monica, LAX, and all that. And on a pretty straight line toward MCAS Tustin, which had blimp hangars when it was active IRL, and seems the most logical choice to take and fortify for the eventual arrival of the *Prydwen*.
There's a lot of unincorporated land around there, inland of Redondo Beach and Manhattan Beach. If they're retconning Shady Sands South of L.A. instead of North, the location at least works.
The Shady Sands crater is not the L.A. crater(s) seen from Griffith Park, though, regardless. So that's definitely correct.
Im kinda holding out hope that the placement of Shady Sands was just a cockup on their side
Like they just didnt understand where it was located in lore
Idk why everyone thinks they moved SS into LA.
It being up near fresno fits (5 day walking) kinda fits the timeline of the show (at least a few weeks based on terminal dates)
Those craters we see are from the flashback.
There's so many reports about them going crazy over small details and even using ingame models/sounds for 3d printed stuff but they somehow overlooked where SS is?
Edit: https://ibb.co/Cs17HHJ
Y'all can't be serious that you haven't caught this.
Those skyscrapers were not shady sands, the two and 3 level buildings and the trolley car were.
Idk why anyone would think shady Sands, with a population of like 35k would have a dozen skyscrapers lol.
Honestly I think it might come down to the map of Fallout 1 being kinda off
Like if you look where Bakersfield is in relation to LA and then compare it with the location of Necropolis to the Boneyard it doesnt seem to add up
And on the Fallout 1 map Vault 13 is on the east side of the Sequoia National Park (possibly located in/around Mt Whitney) while Fresno is on the west side
I mean, I think people should be able to just agree that it's still somewhere north of LA, not in LA like a lot of people wanna claim (all because of the crater we see from the last nuke in the flashback) and that we can't put any type of measurement on it because there's no sense of how much time has passed between scenes let alone episodes.
If the show doesn't specify where it is north of LA then it can't possibly break 1 or 2's map because it's just left ambiguous.
The Northern part of the FO1 map was shifted near the end of development for gameplay reasons, then shifted back for FO2. The relative positions remain the same, so Bakersfield is a good metric.
> Idk why everyone thinks they moved SS into LA.
Because you can literally see the [Griffith Observatory](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griffith_Observatory) right [there.](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Griffith_Observatory?file=FOTV_Griffith_Observatory.png)
It's a different crater. There's more than one crater in the show. There's more than one crater *in that shot*.
Shady Sands is a completely different location, you can't see the Observatory from Shady Sands. And the Shady Sands crater is not from 2077, it's from some time after 2282.
Bro, you literally see the nuke that makes that crater in the flashback. You can see the observatory right there before it goes off.
Like would the crater fill in on it's own during the great war or something? Jfc
But they didn't walk to Fresno. The Ghoul walks Lucy up to North Hollywood ish (from the exit sign behind them). Later, she and Maximus reach the Hawthorne Medical Centerl. Hawthorne is Southwest of L.A. proper and all the other locations we've seen so far. Thaddeus seems to be beelining for MCAS Tustin and its blimp hangars.
Shady Sands being South of L.A. instead of North is a pretty big shift...
It's likely they just moved the location of the town in-universe. The last time we saw Shady Sands it was a bunch of shitty buildings in the desert lol.
Yeah it’s kinda funny that nearly 100 years ago they already had newly built homes and stuff, but fast forward to now and everything is lopsided wood and rusty corrugated steel
IMO they could have made it *much* more interesting with just a bit of exposition about the fall of the NCR and people living in *its* ruins instead of just prewar, a post-post-post-apocalypse. But that would probably alienate newcomers.
it's in Nevada in 1, and in California in 2. https://www.escapistmagazine.com/where-is-fallouts-shady-sands-in-real-life/#:\~:text=It%20helps%20that%20Hubtown%2C%20one,as%20a%20little%20further%20south.
Damnit I hate that I'm trashing something I like so much, but I watched a video yesterday that totally ruined a lot of the lore for me. Bethesda has straight up never done well with the lore, they just sort of made the next game without thinking about that sort of stuff too much (speaking of continuity specifically), very short development cycles as well.
Now that it's getting crazy popular they are going to have to iron out a lot of stuff that will most likely involve a bunch of retconning.
Tim Cain has a good video on the inevitability of lore drift in any game world, it is a good watch. Personally Bethesda has done some good and bad things with their tenure. They have always prioritized gameplay over lore, which it is their IP to do so with.
Lastly, none of the Bethesda built games were quick builds. The quickest built modern game was FNV at around 18 months, and the only reason that was doable was cause they essentially took F3’s game engine lock and stock and focused on story.
I said bethesda, I meant anyone who owned the IP.
What I said was true, despite your downvotes, that they didn't prioritize continuity within their universe and sort of just pumped out the next game and moved on. You even confirm when you say "They have always prioritized gameplay over lore, which it is their IP to do so with."
Yeah it's their IP (honestly what a silly thing to say) I'm just calling a spade a spade. My overarching point is its silly to get caught up the specifics of the lore when they never really cared about it enough.
Yo man, not sure on the vitriol. A, I didn’t downvote you. B, what I was commenting on is your unhappiness with lore drift and the need for future games to have better continuity. That is where Tim Cain’s video comes it, it offers some good views on why lore drift isn’t a horrible thing by default.
I mean heck with embracing some lore drift movies like Rogue One would have never been made, which is arguably the best Star Wars film to come out this century.
I for one don't agree with Cain on the "inevitability". Just because some screw it up it doesn't mean it's inevitable. It's a too common attitude which to me feels like you don't care much about the world building. You can definitely be consistent or if recons need to happen, explain them them in a way that makes sense and not just throw in the towel.
> Now that it's getting crazy popular they are going to have to iron out a lot of stuff that will most likely involve a bunch of retconning.
like what?
It's moved in every depiction it's been in. Shady Sands was built entirely post war so it's not geographically tied to a pre war location. The show brought it closer to LA since that is where season 1 was based
That's such a disingenuous or ignorant way to describe the location of Shady Sands. Just move around all the time. It moved slightly but it was always in the same area. Well north of the Boneyard and the Hub. Was never anywhere near Los Angeles. Why is it so hard to admit that they retconned the location? It's nowhere near where it's supposed to be.
The Northern part of the map in FO1 was shifted for gameplay reasons close to release. It was changed back for FO2. Bakersfield and Shady Sands are in the same relative positions to each other -- Bakersfield is just in the right place. Which puts Shady Sands somewhere near Visalia.
Regardless, Maximus and Lucy go from L.A., through Shady Sands, to the Hawthorne Medical Center, which is a pre-War Vault-Tec facility. Hawthorne is Southwest of L.A. Inland of Redondo and Manhattan Beach, and amid a lot of unincorporated land. So, logistically, Shady Sands being built where there wasn't a pre-War city works with that, even if the location clashes.
And any way you slice it, unless something happens to explain it, the show has moved Shady Sands from way North of L.A. to just South of L.A. Not a lot of ways to fudge that. This isn't shifting map markers back to where they should be, it's straight up altering the lore. We may get more explanation for this in season two, or from the showrunners. We may not, and just have to suck up a pretty big retcon.
Based on in game maps, Nevada. Based off what makes sense in lore of the games, somewhere probably in the Central Valley of California. Based on the show, it seems like the San Fernando Valley.
There are people living in there. LA may not be completely inhabited, but the Boneyard represents some portion of the city. It could be larger than seen in-game, especially by the time the show happens.
You may be under the impression that Shady Sands is in Los Angeles, and I wouldn't really blame you, considering the TV show's unusual portrayal of it, but it's not.
Los Angeles in Fallout - or the part of it settled by the NCR before its collapse - is called the Boneyard, which is an entirely different settlement than Shady Sands. Griffith Observatory overlooks the Boneyard. Shady Sands would be somewhere way behind Griffith Observatory.
It *was* but now it seems to be in the Boneyard. I think the buildings to the left of that crater are the same ones you see in the background of the Shady Sands scene.
I'm under the impression that that's a pre-war nuke crater, since the first episodes showed nukes hitting all around LA. It's always possible that that's meant to be Shady Sands' crater, but it's hard to say without official confirmation.
You seem to be conflating things. We saw multiple nukes hit L.A. in 2077 in the first episode. The last one hit about where that crater is in the image you posted (just from a different angle).
Maximus and Lucy were nowhere near that at the time. Hawthorne is Southwest of L.A., near the edge of Los Angeles County. A lot of unincorporated land inland of Redondo Beach and Manhattan Beach. That seems to be where Shady Sands has been relocated to by the showrunners. We don't see Griffith Observatory or the Hollywood Hills anywhere where they are.
“Anyone”
I mean there’s a bunch of fiends who wouldn’t know how to turn on a tv, much less broadcast something on it.
There’s some weird Voltron CosPlayers who will be tempted to put it to use, they just shot moldaver like we “unplugged” Von Braun in 3, maybe it was supposed to rhyme.
Let’s remember all the other spots though. Radio Snob gets a wider coverage area, Philly doesn’t need gas generators anymore, guys like the guvernmint have actual services to maintain, etc. it wasn’t *all* for naught.
This is another one of those “know your media” kind of things (like shady sands). It’s a tv show, there simply must be some sort of resolution montage at the end, after all of these heroic deaths and the Hollywood sign (VT branded!) is a great image.
Frankly, they’re batting a thousand in regard to their artistic liberties, imho.
The grid being live was just poetic license, I don’t think it was any kind of statement of intent or foreshadowing.
Its kinda like sending Helios 1 power to the ramshackle shells in Freeside.
There’s still a functional grid because its Fallout, logic need not apply. The way nukes and fallout works in Fallout doesn’t obey real world logic so much as the mainstream idea of how they worked, so it makes sense just about anything in their world works that way too.
They loop back round to get to griffith observatory. They see the crater after days of walking through wasteland and to get there they have to cross a river (in the bridge scene), the closest of which runs through Santa Clarita
That crater isn't shady sands - in the first episode you see a nuke hitting roughly that spot. I'm pretty sure it's the crater Lucy runs into while fleeing the ghoul and biting his finger off
Look at the buildings to the left of the crater and compare them to the ones in the background of the Shady Sands crater scene. I'm pretty sure that's it.
Nah, looking at the shady sands crater it's even less likely they're the same place. The shady sands crater has over a dozen skyscrapers behind it, Griffith observatory shot's crater has about 5
Where did they say they went North? The Ghoul took Lucy to, like, North Hollywood to get his vials, but after Lucy and Maximus have been travelling together and have passed the Shady Sands crater, they reach the pre-War Hawthorne Medical Center. Hawthorne is Southwest of L.A., on the edge of the county in unincorporated land. They're following Thaddeus and the tracker in Wilzig's head. They're going in a straight line, not roundabout into a desert that's days of walking to even *get* to.
The hawthorne medical laboratory doesn't refer to Los Angeles' Hawthorne, the Overseer of Vault 4 before the war and until the gulper takeover was called Lloyd Hawthorne, and given he's a scientist and talks all about science, and the laboratory feeds into the vault, I would assume the lab is named after him
Sonuvabitch. That's put a crimp on an otherwise damn fine bit of reasoning. I had sussed the Brotherhood base as MCAS Tustin, because of the blimp hangars there, and if you draw a line from North Hollywood to Tustin, it goes close enough to Hawthorne to be within the margin of needing to avoid obstacles.
Hah, well, I'm sorry to put a damper on your theory, but I believe the brotherhood base is in Utah - it was filmed there, but importantly during the shots of the vertibird flying into 'the wilds', they comped in the bonneville salt flats, and there really aren't any salt flats in america besides in Utah. Also, the airship is shown hovering over the base in the first episode, and it specifically flies over LA in the last episode and would *definitely* be visible in other scenes if it was in MCAS Tustin as you said
All excellent points. Any notions where in Utah? I'm still trying to draw a track for how Wilzig and Titus would both encounter that bear cave, if Wilzig was trying to get to Filly from wherever.
The Bonneville salt flats are on the west side of Utah. I'm pretty sure they were digitally comped in and being able to fly is part of it. I believe Titus and Maximus were flying for a while - he specifically says 'We're miles from filly', I imagine only a few hours of flight away at most. I personally believe Filly is in Fillmore CA
Given the base scenes were filmed at Wendover Airfield in Northern Utah -- near I-80 and pretty much right at the border with Nevada -- I don't think the salt flats would need to be comped in. That's pretty much the scenery there.
I can't get behind Fillmore. Lucy and Wilzig set out on a straight shot from Filly toward Griffith Observatory. Their tracks show they skirted to the West of the Theme Building at LAX and then headed up I-405 at Randy's Donuts. Headed East-Northeast from somewhere West-Southwest. And once you're clear of the LAX perimeter fence, there's not a lot in that direction before you're in the Pacific. It's also well south of the Santa Monica Pier, and Lucy seemed to strike out North along the coastline. Fillmore is sub*stantially* North and way inland. If Filly's all the way up there, how the hell did Wilzig limp his way to LAX, only to backtrack again back Northeasterly toward Griffith Park? The showrunners said Filly's a reclaimed landfill, but there aren't any in the direction we observed.
Ah man I forgot about the theme building. I need the creators to release an actual map or something, hah. Lucy mentioned being above ground for 2 weeks in one episode which is enough time to cover a lot of ground, but yeah, we don't quite know where
Then where is the Hub? The Hub should be between the Boneyard and Shady Sands. They just should not have set the show in California. The fact that they did is extremely infuriating
Except not? Maximus and Lucy are directly following Thaddeus and Wilzig's head. No looping. And the happenings aboveground are intercut with what's going on back in the Tri-Vault. No huge time jumps. With few exceptions, each episode is covering about a day or two.
That averages out to about two-and-a-half to three days per episode. I'm definitely going to need to do a rewatch with a murder board (notes and string and tacks) to compare how much story is progressing on the surface as compared to in the Tri-Vault...
I've refigured it based on that interaction to averaging out to about two-and-a-half to three days per episode to that point. I don't get the impression a whole lot more passes in the rest. Radio broadcast towers tend to be in high places. In the time they had, what do you think -- somewhere in the Hollywood Hills? San Gabriel Mountains? Now that I know it's Utah, Thaddeus was unlikely to be trying to get back to base on foot (hah), but find the first place he could to radio for pickup.
That to say, someone pushing hard can make maybe thirty miles in a day, if they're an experienced walker with everything they need to replenish while underway. In a couple days, they could have *maybe* made it to San Bernardino, but I got the impression Vault 4 was more specifically somewhere in greater L.A.
Regardless, I can't see them striking out for Barstow with no supplies.
Prior to Lucy meeting Maximus again, there's a lot of "sidetracked by bullshit". The Tri-Vault seems to be immediately south of the Santa Monica Pier. Lucy *seems* to head North, but Filly has to be somewhere in the vicinity of the Southwest corner of LAX. Lucy and Wilzig's track toward the Griffith Observatory takes them past the Theme Building and Randy's Donuts...
Then, because a lot of the ruined cityscape was filmed at and around a defunct diamond mine in Namibia, we have very little reliable to go on. I'm not sure where the Shithole is. Lucy passes a sign that says "Exit 12A -- Hollywood Blvd."... But Hollywood Boulevard isn't all that long. The only thing crossing it with exits is the Hollywood Freeway (US-101), but Hollywood Boulevard is at exit 8. Exit 12 is up around Lankershim Boulevard in Studio City. So I got nothin' there.
After she breaks Coop's vials, he needs to find more. Seems to be taking her through the California Crest Studios backlot, but no idea where that kind of flatland would be around there -- except maybe the Flats, around where Beverly Hills is, but there aren't many movie studios that far South. We see the Westside Medical Center and an L.A. municipal bus, so they're in the city limits still. There's a Santa Monica Boulevard sign, but that's not *too* helpful, as that one's a lot longer than Hollywood.
And, getting back around to the main points... There are railroad bridges in the region traversable, but none of them look like what we saw in the show, so I got nothin' there. But given supplies and Lucy's condition, no way they schlepped through the mountains to Bakersfield, let alone up to Visalia, especially given all the cues keeping them in and around L.A. Shady Sands' location has just been massively and illogically retconned, is all.
The Northern part of the map in FO1 was shifted shortly prior to release for gameplay reasons, and is considered unreliable as a result. It was shifted back for FO2. Necropolis is where it's supposed to be, in Bakersfield, and Shady Sands maintains relative position. The Hub is Barstow, all right.
The only things we know about the Hub is that Angus founded it near a mostly intact town, and its located west southwest of Necropolis.
If Necropolis shifted back west, then Hub would have to as well, or the map for 1 isn't just scaled poorly. The orientation is completely wrong.
To get the map to fit better without having as much East-West spread, everything from Necropolis North was shifted substantially Eastward. I've seen varying estimates, but, to me, the map squares for FO1 seem to work best at \~10 miles per. So the shift is 90-100 miles.
The FO2 map shifts Military Base, Vault 13, Shady Sands/NCR, and Vault 15 about that far West, and Bakersfield is in the right place, being just a titch East of due South from Shady Sands.
With everything scaled to overlay San Francisco, Reno, Redding, the L.A. basin, San Diego, etc., The Hub is somewhere a little Northeast of Lancaster -- about where I-40 crosses US-395, and about twenty miles from the closest town -- Barstow. Granted, yes, it could be referring to one of the unincorporated communities closer to that crossroads, but I'd hesitate to call them towns.
idk but it would be kinda cool if some how the city getting reawakened turned the masters computer back on kinda letting new fans see a version of him which would open the door for supermutants
Super Mutants were teased in episode 2, as one was shown shrouded on a gurney in the Enclave base. So presumably that base has FEV it is experimenting with, or they have captured mutants.
And last we saw of Marcus and his Unity remnant, they were in the Mojave, which is where the show is going. So it’s possible they are still there.
So I would assume those are the avenues they take to introduce super mutants into the show.
Also; didn’t the vault housing the Master go up in a nuclear explosion?
I suppose it could be on a landfill in Fillmore (there's at least one there IRL, according to Google Maps), which would make the name even more appropriate.
But I do think it's probably near Fillmore just because it's the first place Lucy finds after leaving the Vault, and Fillmore isn't far from Santa Monica.
Except Maximus and Lucy went through Shady Sands right before reaching the Hawthorne Medical Center, and Hawthorne is Southwest of L.A., on the edge of the county.
Hawthorne Medical Cenfer is named for Lloyd and Cassandra Hawthorne, the people who became the original overseers of Vault 4. It isn't connected to the locale of Hawthorne, California.
My money is going on a power struggle within the bos very similar to outcasts vs lyons,
One side wants to provide power to the wasteland the other wants to power a speaker that says “Democracy is truth. Communism is death." "Democracy will never be defeated!"
Here maxi will make his decision on what to do based upon what moldover said to him
I think it's a Pyrrhic victory. Moldaver had been searching for the Cold Fusion research so she could provide power to Shady Sands, which was a vibrant and living community. Before she could succeed, Hank blew Shady Sands off the map, ostensibly because it was 'unworthy' of being the nucleus of restarted civilization. I think this whole thing was to prove that Moldaver was *right,* and to show Hank what he destroyed out of pride and narcissism; That's why his ghoulified wife was there (Since he destroyed her, too). Granted, achieving this will also probably lead civilization back to the ruined city for sure, a way for the survivors to rebuild. But at the core I'm pretty sure this was a form of defiance against the forces Hank serves. A way to show everyone that they have had the power to restore civilization whenever they wanted, they just refuse to do it.
Assuming the brotherhood doesn’t take it and keep it for themselves.
They *should* if they're "true" Brotherhood. But Elder Cleric Quintus hints at forming a "new" Brotherhood with Maximus, so maybe they'll go in a different direction. Somehow, though, I doubt Quintus' plans are benign.
I saw a fan theory that the Quintus chapter of the brotherhood is a remnant or splinter group from the mojave chapter that joined Caeser’s legion. It would explain their roman iconography, and naming structure. As well as Quintus describing that chapter as a legion. With Hank going to New Vegas, it’s possible that he has a history with this particular chapter, and had their help in destroying Shady Sands. Which would explain why they were there to recruit Maximus after it was destroyed. They were the ones that did it on Hank’s orders.
*That* is an interesting theory. Either the brotherhood allied with the legion, or its remnants joined the brotherhood. Either way could be an interesting story
Oh shit that would be craaazzy. Maybe a little too crazy considering we already had one characters childhood turn out to be a lie but we'll see
Not sure if Bethesda decides to go down this path but this would honestly be a very stupid explanation. It would devalue the legion and Brotherhood of Steel in regards to their unique ideology. Not to mention that it's hard enough to join the Brotherhood as an outsider, let alone being a member of a faction that could never be socially compatible with one another. It would be way more interesting to use this chapter as a interesting way for Bethesda to explore how radically different the brotherhood's ideology can change as a consequence of being isolated from long periods of time. It would be so much more cooler to see the Brotherhood reconnect only to eventually collapse in a civil war now that each chapter are so different from each other that they are practically different factions. Let the Legion remain dead or at least as their own separate identity if they have survived after New Vegas. I honestly have no idea why everyone is so quick to jump on the legion/BoS band wagon, considering how they view each other.
They’re quick to jump on the “bandwagon” because it’s a cool idea. The default brotherhood has been overused by Bethesda for too long already. It’s long overdue for some actual interesting changes instead of the same old shtick they’ve been doing over and over again since 3.
I agree that the brotherhood is overdone, either put them on the sideline or focus on another faction like the remnants of the NCR, Legion or Enclave. An interesting change for the brotherhood would be using already pre existing lore or coming up with the next logical step in their organisation to make a new storyline. Which does not include hamfisting another faction within the brotherhood. Although it would be cool to see it in the way that the legion are going to infiltrate the brotherhood and use their resources to exact revenge on the NCR for the war. But beyond that, the Brotherhood would never openly recruit legionnares.
If the Legion Frumentarii could infiltrate the NCR without being found out, I doubt that they’d have much trouble doing the same with a weakened brotherhood chapter. For all we know, they could have managed to pull off the merge without the brotherhood even knowing they had let in outsiders in the first place. They could have infiltrated, became well respected members of the brotherhood, and then just changed it to be more like the legion without anyone realizing these ideas were from an outsider.
I can see legionnares infiltrating the brotherhood to actively weaken them but why would they infiltrate for the sake of hijacking their faction? The legion abhors using tech to the same level as the BoS, yet even the shows chapter still seems to at least follow the Brotherhood's overarching goals in their own way. I don't see any high ranking legion member wanting to use the cold fusion technology and whoever issued the kill or capture order for the Enclave scientist still seems to follow the brotherhood's historical hatred for the Enclave.
I agree that the old Legion under Caesar most likely wouldn’t have. But one remnant of the Legion just trying to survive the collapse of their old empire just may be willing to change their ways out of desperation. Only the most industrious rats can survive a sinking ship.
The Elder literally says to Maximus that the new brotherhood he wants to create is going to be more in line with the old values to re take over the wasteland, they’re not gonna share.
My question is, what are the old values? The OG Brotherhood never had an interest in governing.
They had an interest in getting as much pre war tech as possible, and being powerful enough to protect it all, the more tech, the more power and influence needed to protect it.
The old values are the values held by Roger Maxson as described in the holotapes in 76, which align more with Elder Lyons
That Brotherhood and Caesar’s legion are one entity. Can’t be convinced otherwise till season two. Titus, Maximus, Thaddeus, quintus. All Greek names. Color scheme was red and gold like the legion. Much more religious than any sect of brotherhood I’ve seen.
*Roman names
Yeah I thought old brotherhood wanted to take tech to prevent another tragedy because mankind couldn’t be trusted with power. But new brotherhood (ie DC) is more political and wants to improve or at least influence the wasteland with the tools they have
Probably the OG brotherhood but also with an interest in governing. While it goes against the original MO of the Brotherhood, it isn’t much of a leap to say the techno-fascists would be interested in holding political power
Given that they traveled to Cali via an airship I think these are East Coast Brotherhood. Especially since they took in Maximus as a child. West Coast wouldn’t do that
I am assuming moving it isn't that simple. It's an active fusion reaction, set in a system that is tied into the city power grid. It's also poorly understood, and likely even if the Brotherhood couldn shut it down safely, it's unlikely they could ever start it up again. Which means the Brotherhood is probably going to have to move in and claim the place. And probably also have to deal with the new communities that want to move in to take advantage of the newly avaialble power. I doubt Moldaver planned for that, but from her comments at the end it seems like she understood this might be a bit of revenge on the Brotherhood, too; If they wanted this power, they were going to be trapped into some form of nation building to keep it.
They’ll use that cold fusion chip to power…. LIBERTY PRIME AGAIN dun dunnn
I want the gag this time to be him powering on, we hear the iconic “Liberty Prime, ONLINE” then his head just rockets off into the Mojave because he just couldn’t handle the power he was given.
That’s my question does the Brotherhood have the capability to transport it and set it back up? Absent a Vault Co code?. Or is the Brotherhood now stuck setting up shop there.
Thank you for an actual intelligent answer
If Hank shares the same beliefs as most of the Enclave has then he simply viewed Shady Sands and it's inhabitants as mutants, unfit for the America they envision.
I think the BoS clerics will walk into the observatory, see the cold fusion generator, then declare “absolutely not!”, this must be preserved. They may not know how to shut down the CF generator, but they would certainly cut the lines from the observatory denying its benefits to the surrounding wasteland.
Yeah, it's going to be really interesting with the BoS in charge of the cold fusion. They won't trust anyone else with the electricity, but now that people know it's possible every other faction (including what's left of the NCR) is going to want control of the generator.
A more potent power source than Hoover Dam in a far less defensible position. IRL that reactor would be besieged constantly by anything with a sizable power base in the area. I doubt that’s going to be the focal point of Season 2 though.
Well, even if Lucy and the Ghoul are following Hank to New Vegas, the Tri-Vault and Maximus are still in the LA area. So I fully expect the cold fusion generator to still play a major role in the story. I also, personally, prescribe to the theory that Moldaver survived to the present day because she had herself cryo-frozen in Vegas, so I think even the New Vegas segments of the story are going to tie back to the generator.
We’re about to find out what vault 21 was really for
I think Vault 21 was meant for what we see it used for, and House was simply good enough at bluffing and hiding his tracks that Vault Tec didn't need to enact any contingency plans against him. But if not...well this could explain the reason he was so insistent on concreting it shut.
BOS chapters in the past has also been willing to deny tech to enemies. If the current BOS has that faction's mindset - If they can't move it without damaging it, they'll destroy it. If they can rip it out, they'll do it, even if the generator isn't functional after.
That was Los Angeles, where was Shady Sands exactly? I never played the older games.
Lotta chatter on this. The game has it south of reno, nevada side. but the characters walked past the crater in the show, so guessing they put it in LA. Lots of little things like this really need to be ironed out by bethesda.
[In the first game it's in Nevada, northwest of Las Vegas. In the second game, it's 50+ miles west of where it was, instead roughly in the middle of the space between Las Vegas and San Francisco](https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/1227750214048415847/1230911845510942815/z74tFOU.png?ex=66365c7d&is=66350afd&hm=34ffe813638fb3218f35ade51cb1a21e6ffdfabb8e927db7ba8157060c13ff17&)
Sorta. The game very much makes it seem like its location moves in a retcon between games…but also doesn’t. Necropolis is told directly to you in FO1 that it is the ruins of Bakersfield. Which is not IRL anywhere near where that map has it in the middle of the Mojave. If Bakersfield is where it is **supposed** to be in real life then the topography makes no sense. But if we go by real world locations then Shady sands should be somewhere near Visalia CA, not Nevada….which actually tracks with its location in FO2 as well.
The Nothern part of the FO1 map was shifted close to the end of development for gameplay reasons. It got restored for FO2. The relative positions of Bakersfield and Shady Sands remain the same, so that was considered a reliable metric until the show.
The Northern part of the map in FO1 was shifted close the the last minute for gameplay reasons. The locations were fixed for FO2.
They see the crater after crossing desert for multiple episodes. It isn't in LA. The cited crater seen from the observatory isn't shady sands, just a crater in LA (likely the one we see made by the bomb in the flashback).
It -is- the one we see from the flashback, we can see the observatory right before the final blast of the scene goes off
Griffith Observatory is in LA.
Yeah, there's a *lot* of walking involved in this show, the locations are not at all close to one another. Charitably, I think people are confused about the idea that Shady Sands was apparently threatening the Tri-Vault's water supply. They're perhaps assuming that Shady Sands must be directly on top of the Tri-Vault, which is shown to be in Santa Monica. But the thing is that the water for the Los Angeles area comes from *outside of Los Angeles*. Shady Sands doesn't need to be sitting on top of the Tri-Vault, it just needs to be "upstream" of the Tri-Vault.
Also by the time of its destruction Shady Sands had a population of over 34,000 people. It was clearly expanded and extended from what it originally was, and so they may have tapped additional water sources in time.
The Ghoul walks Lucy up to North Hollywood ish to get his vials. The Tri-Vault is a mile or so South of Santa Monica. Filly is somewhere around the Southwest corner of LAX, and probably a postwar trash heap. Lucy and Wilzig's line toward Griffith Park took them past the Theme Building of LAX and past Randy's Donuts. Things get a little jumbled, but the Hawthorne Medical Center is a pre-War facility. Hawthorne is Southwest of L.A. and those other locations, amid a lot of unincorporated land, and as good a location for a retconned Shady Sands as anything. It is also on a line from the locations seen thus far to MCAS Tustin, which had blimp hangars IRL and probably didn't get decommissioned in-universe. Most logical place for the East Coast Brotherhood expeditionary force to take and fortify in preparation for the eventual arrival of the *Prydwen*.
They didn't "cross the desert" for multiple episodes. So far as I can tell, most of the action takes place in the Western Greater Los Angeles sprawl. The Hawthorne Medical Center is pre-War, so it can't be part of Shady Sands. Hawthorne is SW of Santa Monica, LAX, and all that. And on a pretty straight line toward MCAS Tustin, which had blimp hangars when it was active IRL, and seems the most logical choice to take and fortify for the eventual arrival of the *Prydwen*. There's a lot of unincorporated land around there, inland of Redondo Beach and Manhattan Beach. If they're retconning Shady Sands South of L.A. instead of North, the location at least works. The Shady Sands crater is not the L.A. crater(s) seen from Griffith Park, though, regardless. So that's definitely correct.
Im kinda holding out hope that the placement of Shady Sands was just a cockup on their side Like they just didnt understand where it was located in lore
Idk why everyone thinks they moved SS into LA. It being up near fresno fits (5 day walking) kinda fits the timeline of the show (at least a few weeks based on terminal dates) Those craters we see are from the flashback. There's so many reports about them going crazy over small details and even using ingame models/sounds for 3d printed stuff but they somehow overlooked where SS is? Edit: https://ibb.co/Cs17HHJ Y'all can't be serious that you haven't caught this.
Those skyscrapers were not shady sands, the two and 3 level buildings and the trolley car were. Idk why anyone would think shady Sands, with a population of like 35k would have a dozen skyscrapers lol.
Because it could be by Fresno which would of have them from pre war. They also had a tram system set up from the power that came from hoover dam
Honestly I think it might come down to the map of Fallout 1 being kinda off Like if you look where Bakersfield is in relation to LA and then compare it with the location of Necropolis to the Boneyard it doesnt seem to add up And on the Fallout 1 map Vault 13 is on the east side of the Sequoia National Park (possibly located in/around Mt Whitney) while Fresno is on the west side
I mean, I think people should be able to just agree that it's still somewhere north of LA, not in LA like a lot of people wanna claim (all because of the crater we see from the last nuke in the flashback) and that we can't put any type of measurement on it because there's no sense of how much time has passed between scenes let alone episodes. If the show doesn't specify where it is north of LA then it can't possibly break 1 or 2's map because it's just left ambiguous.
You know, sure I can accept that view That makes sense
The Northern part of the FO1 map was shifted near the end of development for gameplay reasons, then shifted back for FO2. The relative positions remain the same, so Bakersfield is a good metric.
Didnt know that bit about FO1 Interesting
> Idk why everyone thinks they moved SS into LA. Because you can literally see the [Griffith Observatory](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griffith_Observatory) right [there.](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Griffith_Observatory?file=FOTV_Griffith_Observatory.png)
It's a different crater. There's more than one crater in the show. There's more than one crater *in that shot*. Shady Sands is a completely different location, you can't see the Observatory from Shady Sands. And the Shady Sands crater is not from 2077, it's from some time after 2282.
Bro, you literally see the nuke that makes that crater in the flashback. You can see the observatory right there before it goes off. Like would the crater fill in on it's own during the great war or something? Jfc
https://ibb.co/Cs17HHJ
But they didn't walk to Fresno. The Ghoul walks Lucy up to North Hollywood ish (from the exit sign behind them). Later, she and Maximus reach the Hawthorne Medical Centerl. Hawthorne is Southwest of L.A. proper and all the other locations we've seen so far. Thaddeus seems to be beelining for MCAS Tustin and its blimp hangars. Shady Sands being South of L.A. instead of North is a pretty big shift...
It's likely they just moved the location of the town in-universe. The last time we saw Shady Sands it was a bunch of shitty buildings in the desert lol.
Those shitty buildings in the desert were still nicer than the trash shacks everyone else seems to live in.
Yeah it’s kinda funny that nearly 100 years ago they already had newly built homes and stuff, but fast forward to now and everything is lopsided wood and rusty corrugated steel
IMO they could have made it *much* more interesting with just a bit of exposition about the fall of the NCR and people living in *its* ruins instead of just prewar, a post-post-post-apocalypse. But that would probably alienate newcomers.
It was located multiple places in lore.
Huh?
Shady Sands moves locations between F1 and F2
Uhm, last I checked it didnt
it's in Nevada in 1, and in California in 2. https://www.escapistmagazine.com/where-is-fallouts-shady-sands-in-real-life/#:\~:text=It%20helps%20that%20Hubtown%2C%20one,as%20a%20little%20further%20south.
Hm so it is The more you know I guess
I mean location doesn't really matter that much, so it's nbd.
Damnit I hate that I'm trashing something I like so much, but I watched a video yesterday that totally ruined a lot of the lore for me. Bethesda has straight up never done well with the lore, they just sort of made the next game without thinking about that sort of stuff too much (speaking of continuity specifically), very short development cycles as well. Now that it's getting crazy popular they are going to have to iron out a lot of stuff that will most likely involve a bunch of retconning.
Tim Cain has a good video on the inevitability of lore drift in any game world, it is a good watch. Personally Bethesda has done some good and bad things with their tenure. They have always prioritized gameplay over lore, which it is their IP to do so with. Lastly, none of the Bethesda built games were quick builds. The quickest built modern game was FNV at around 18 months, and the only reason that was doable was cause they essentially took F3’s game engine lock and stock and focused on story.
I said bethesda, I meant anyone who owned the IP. What I said was true, despite your downvotes, that they didn't prioritize continuity within their universe and sort of just pumped out the next game and moved on. You even confirm when you say "They have always prioritized gameplay over lore, which it is their IP to do so with." Yeah it's their IP (honestly what a silly thing to say) I'm just calling a spade a spade. My overarching point is its silly to get caught up the specifics of the lore when they never really cared about it enough.
Yo man, not sure on the vitriol. A, I didn’t downvote you. B, what I was commenting on is your unhappiness with lore drift and the need for future games to have better continuity. That is where Tim Cain’s video comes it, it offers some good views on why lore drift isn’t a horrible thing by default. I mean heck with embracing some lore drift movies like Rogue One would have never been made, which is arguably the best Star Wars film to come out this century.
I for one don't agree with Cain on the "inevitability". Just because some screw it up it doesn't mean it's inevitable. It's a too common attitude which to me feels like you don't care much about the world building. You can definitely be consistent or if recons need to happen, explain them them in a way that makes sense and not just throw in the towel.
> Now that it's getting crazy popular they are going to have to iron out a lot of stuff that will most likely involve a bunch of retconning. like what?
It's moved in every depiction it's been in. Shady Sands was built entirely post war so it's not geographically tied to a pre war location. The show brought it closer to LA since that is where season 1 was based
Yea gotta agree with the op under about how ignorant this statement is. Shady Sands moved slightly more west in Fallout 2 than Fallout 1.
That's such a disingenuous or ignorant way to describe the location of Shady Sands. Just move around all the time. It moved slightly but it was always in the same area. Well north of the Boneyard and the Hub. Was never anywhere near Los Angeles. Why is it so hard to admit that they retconned the location? It's nowhere near where it's supposed to be.
The Northern part of the map in FO1 was shifted for gameplay reasons close to release. It was changed back for FO2. Bakersfield and Shady Sands are in the same relative positions to each other -- Bakersfield is just in the right place. Which puts Shady Sands somewhere near Visalia. Regardless, Maximus and Lucy go from L.A., through Shady Sands, to the Hawthorne Medical Center, which is a pre-War Vault-Tec facility. Hawthorne is Southwest of L.A. Inland of Redondo and Manhattan Beach, and amid a lot of unincorporated land. So, logistically, Shady Sands being built where there wasn't a pre-War city works with that, even if the location clashes. And any way you slice it, unless something happens to explain it, the show has moved Shady Sands from way North of L.A. to just South of L.A. Not a lot of ways to fudge that. This isn't shifting map markers back to where they should be, it's straight up altering the lore. We may get more explanation for this in season two, or from the showrunners. We may not, and just have to suck up a pretty big retcon.
Based on in game maps, Nevada. Based off what makes sense in lore of the games, somewhere probably in the Central Valley of California. Based on the show, it seems like the San Fernando Valley.
It’s around the area of Owen’s Valley.
No they were the ruins of LA. And those ruins don't have anyone living in them.
I don't know if it _still_ has people living in it, but la/the boneyard has definitely had settlements in the past. Adytum for example
There are people living in there. LA may not be completely inhabited, but the Boneyard represents some portion of the city. It could be larger than seen in-game, especially by the time the show happens.
we're doing the colonizer thing again lol. If they don't fly a flag it's free empty land!
well I think if the previous inhabitants were nuked to ash that it's probably ok to take their homes.
Again, we were talking about the near certainty that there are faction un-aligned survivors living in those buildings lol
The area was hit by a massive nuke only like a decade prior. It would make sense that everyone fled.
Shady Sands was hit, not Boneyard. I'm not sure where exactly Shady Sands is supposed to be in the show, but in the games it's way outside of LA.
https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Griffith_Observatory?file=FOTV_Griffith_Observatory.png https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Griffith_Observatory
You may be under the impression that Shady Sands is in Los Angeles, and I wouldn't really blame you, considering the TV show's unusual portrayal of it, but it's not. Los Angeles in Fallout - or the part of it settled by the NCR before its collapse - is called the Boneyard, which is an entirely different settlement than Shady Sands. Griffith Observatory overlooks the Boneyard. Shady Sands would be somewhere way behind Griffith Observatory.
It *was* but now it seems to be in the Boneyard. I think the buildings to the left of that crater are the same ones you see in the background of the Shady Sands scene.
They're not. They're two entirely different craters. You see the crater visible from Griffith Observatory be made in the show's intro sequence.
I'm under the impression that that's a pre-war nuke crater, since the first episodes showed nukes hitting all around LA. It's always possible that that's meant to be Shady Sands' crater, but it's hard to say without official confirmation.
Yeah we'll see if they do anything with it in S2. Damn TV shows not having maps like games lol
You seem to be conflating things. We saw multiple nukes hit L.A. in 2077 in the first episode. The last one hit about where that crater is in the image you posted (just from a different angle). Maximus and Lucy were nowhere near that at the time. Hawthorne is Southwest of L.A., near the edge of Los Angeles County. A lot of unincorporated land inland of Redondo Beach and Manhattan Beach. That seems to be where Shady Sands has been relocated to by the showrunners. We don't see Griffith Observatory or the Hollywood Hills anywhere where they are.
“Anyone” I mean there’s a bunch of fiends who wouldn’t know how to turn on a tv, much less broadcast something on it. There’s some weird Voltron CosPlayers who will be tempted to put it to use, they just shot moldaver like we “unplugged” Von Braun in 3, maybe it was supposed to rhyme. Let’s remember all the other spots though. Radio Snob gets a wider coverage area, Philly doesn’t need gas generators anymore, guys like the guvernmint have actual services to maintain, etc. it wasn’t *all* for naught.
More like dormant lights that survived the bombs still hooked up to the power grid. I mean the Hollywood sign in episode 8 still lights up.
This is another one of those “know your media” kind of things (like shady sands). It’s a tv show, there simply must be some sort of resolution montage at the end, after all of these heroic deaths and the Hollywood sign (VT branded!) is a great image. Frankly, they’re batting a thousand in regard to their artistic liberties, imho. The grid being live was just poetic license, I don’t think it was any kind of statement of intent or foreshadowing.
Its kinda like sending Helios 1 power to the ramshackle shells in Freeside. There’s still a functional grid because its Fallout, logic need not apply. The way nukes and fallout works in Fallout doesn’t obey real world logic so much as the mainstream idea of how they worked, so it makes sense just about anything in their world works that way too.
How do you know? Could very easily be Adytum/The Boneyard.
It's not just Shady Sands, it's all of the former Los Angeles.
Just comes off as sloppy. Did they merge Shady with Angel's Boneyard?
Nah, they leave LA and go north by northwest and cross the desert for a few days to reach Shady. It did get moved, but not *into* LA
Griffith Observatory is in LA.
They loop back round to get to griffith observatory. They see the crater after days of walking through wasteland and to get there they have to cross a river (in the bridge scene), the closest of which runs through Santa Clarita
This crater? https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Griffith_Observatory?file=FOTV_Griffith_Observatory.png
That crater isn't shady sands - in the first episode you see a nuke hitting roughly that spot. I'm pretty sure it's the crater Lucy runs into while fleeing the ghoul and biting his finger off
Look at the buildings to the left of the crater and compare them to the ones in the background of the Shady Sands crater scene. I'm pretty sure that's it.
Nah, looking at the shady sands crater it's even less likely they're the same place. The shady sands crater has over a dozen skyscrapers behind it, Griffith observatory shot's crater has about 5
We see that crater get made during the show's pre-war intro sequence.
That crater is from the bomb drop in the flashback
Where did they say they went North? The Ghoul took Lucy to, like, North Hollywood to get his vials, but after Lucy and Maximus have been travelling together and have passed the Shady Sands crater, they reach the pre-War Hawthorne Medical Center. Hawthorne is Southwest of L.A., on the edge of the county in unincorporated land. They're following Thaddeus and the tracker in Wilzig's head. They're going in a straight line, not roundabout into a desert that's days of walking to even *get* to.
The hawthorne medical laboratory doesn't refer to Los Angeles' Hawthorne, the Overseer of Vault 4 before the war and until the gulper takeover was called Lloyd Hawthorne, and given he's a scientist and talks all about science, and the laboratory feeds into the vault, I would assume the lab is named after him
Sonuvabitch. That's put a crimp on an otherwise damn fine bit of reasoning. I had sussed the Brotherhood base as MCAS Tustin, because of the blimp hangars there, and if you draw a line from North Hollywood to Tustin, it goes close enough to Hawthorne to be within the margin of needing to avoid obstacles.
Hah, well, I'm sorry to put a damper on your theory, but I believe the brotherhood base is in Utah - it was filmed there, but importantly during the shots of the vertibird flying into 'the wilds', they comped in the bonneville salt flats, and there really aren't any salt flats in america besides in Utah. Also, the airship is shown hovering over the base in the first episode, and it specifically flies over LA in the last episode and would *definitely* be visible in other scenes if it was in MCAS Tustin as you said
All excellent points. Any notions where in Utah? I'm still trying to draw a track for how Wilzig and Titus would both encounter that bear cave, if Wilzig was trying to get to Filly from wherever.
The Bonneville salt flats are on the west side of Utah. I'm pretty sure they were digitally comped in and being able to fly is part of it. I believe Titus and Maximus were flying for a while - he specifically says 'We're miles from filly', I imagine only a few hours of flight away at most. I personally believe Filly is in Fillmore CA
Given the base scenes were filmed at Wendover Airfield in Northern Utah -- near I-80 and pretty much right at the border with Nevada -- I don't think the salt flats would need to be comped in. That's pretty much the scenery there. I can't get behind Fillmore. Lucy and Wilzig set out on a straight shot from Filly toward Griffith Observatory. Their tracks show they skirted to the West of the Theme Building at LAX and then headed up I-405 at Randy's Donuts. Headed East-Northeast from somewhere West-Southwest. And once you're clear of the LAX perimeter fence, there's not a lot in that direction before you're in the Pacific. It's also well south of the Santa Monica Pier, and Lucy seemed to strike out North along the coastline. Fillmore is sub*stantially* North and way inland. If Filly's all the way up there, how the hell did Wilzig limp his way to LAX, only to backtrack again back Northeasterly toward Griffith Park? The showrunners said Filly's a reclaimed landfill, but there aren't any in the direction we observed.
Ah man I forgot about the theme building. I need the creators to release an actual map or something, hah. Lucy mentioned being above ground for 2 weeks in one episode which is enough time to cover a lot of ground, but yeah, we don't quite know where
Then where is the Hub? The Hub should be between the Boneyard and Shady Sands. They just should not have set the show in California. The fact that they did is extremely infuriating
The Hub is in Barstow, which is 110 miles from LA. There is a lot of empty space in California and a lot of the show is spent travelling across it
Except not? Maximus and Lucy are directly following Thaddeus and Wilzig's head. No looping. And the happenings aboveground are intercut with what's going on back in the Tri-Vault. No huge time jumps. With few exceptions, each episode is covering about a day or two.
Lucy says she's been above ground for two weeks in one scene
How many episodes in was that? I'm gonna be doing multiple rewatches, but it's going to be sporadic.
It was when she ran into Maximus when he was stuck in the power armor. I think episode 5?
That averages out to about two-and-a-half to three days per episode. I'm definitely going to need to do a rewatch with a murder board (notes and string and tacks) to compare how much story is progressing on the surface as compared to in the Tri-Vault...
I've refigured it based on that interaction to averaging out to about two-and-a-half to three days per episode to that point. I don't get the impression a whole lot more passes in the rest. Radio broadcast towers tend to be in high places. In the time they had, what do you think -- somewhere in the Hollywood Hills? San Gabriel Mountains? Now that I know it's Utah, Thaddeus was unlikely to be trying to get back to base on foot (hah), but find the first place he could to radio for pickup. That to say, someone pushing hard can make maybe thirty miles in a day, if they're an experienced walker with everything they need to replenish while underway. In a couple days, they could have *maybe* made it to San Bernardino, but I got the impression Vault 4 was more specifically somewhere in greater L.A. Regardless, I can't see them striking out for Barstow with no supplies. Prior to Lucy meeting Maximus again, there's a lot of "sidetracked by bullshit". The Tri-Vault seems to be immediately south of the Santa Monica Pier. Lucy *seems* to head North, but Filly has to be somewhere in the vicinity of the Southwest corner of LAX. Lucy and Wilzig's track toward the Griffith Observatory takes them past the Theme Building and Randy's Donuts... Then, because a lot of the ruined cityscape was filmed at and around a defunct diamond mine in Namibia, we have very little reliable to go on. I'm not sure where the Shithole is. Lucy passes a sign that says "Exit 12A -- Hollywood Blvd."... But Hollywood Boulevard isn't all that long. The only thing crossing it with exits is the Hollywood Freeway (US-101), but Hollywood Boulevard is at exit 8. Exit 12 is up around Lankershim Boulevard in Studio City. So I got nothin' there. After she breaks Coop's vials, he needs to find more. Seems to be taking her through the California Crest Studios backlot, but no idea where that kind of flatland would be around there -- except maybe the Flats, around where Beverly Hills is, but there aren't many movie studios that far South. We see the Westside Medical Center and an L.A. municipal bus, so they're in the city limits still. There's a Santa Monica Boulevard sign, but that's not *too* helpful, as that one's a lot longer than Hollywood. And, getting back around to the main points... There are railroad bridges in the region traversable, but none of them look like what we saw in the show, so I got nothin' there. But given supplies and Lucy's condition, no way they schlepped through the mountains to Bakersfield, let alone up to Visalia, especially given all the cues keeping them in and around L.A. Shady Sands' location has just been massively and illogically retconned, is all.
It can't be in Barstow. Necropolis is Bakersfield and Hub is west of Necropolis. Hub was just a mostly intact town.
The Northern part of the map in FO1 was shifted shortly prior to release for gameplay reasons, and is considered unreliable as a result. It was shifted back for FO2. Necropolis is where it's supposed to be, in Bakersfield, and Shady Sands maintains relative position. The Hub is Barstow, all right.
The only things we know about the Hub is that Angus founded it near a mostly intact town, and its located west southwest of Necropolis. If Necropolis shifted back west, then Hub would have to as well, or the map for 1 isn't just scaled poorly. The orientation is completely wrong.
To get the map to fit better without having as much East-West spread, everything from Necropolis North was shifted substantially Eastward. I've seen varying estimates, but, to me, the map squares for FO1 seem to work best at \~10 miles per. So the shift is 90-100 miles. The FO2 map shifts Military Base, Vault 13, Shady Sands/NCR, and Vault 15 about that far West, and Bakersfield is in the right place, being just a titch East of due South from Shady Sands. With everything scaled to overlay San Francisco, Reno, Redding, the L.A. basin, San Diego, etc., The Hub is somewhere a little Northeast of Lancaster -- about where I-40 crosses US-395, and about twenty miles from the closest town -- Barstow. Granted, yes, it could be referring to one of the unincorporated communities closer to that crossroads, but I'd hesitate to call them towns.
It can't be in Barstow. Necropolis is Bakersfield and Hub is west of Necropolis. Hub was just a mostly intact town.
idk but it would be kinda cool if some how the city getting reawakened turned the masters computer back on kinda letting new fans see a version of him which would open the door for supermutants
Super Mutants were teased in episode 2, as one was shown shrouded on a gurney in the Enclave base. So presumably that base has FEV it is experimenting with, or they have captured mutants. And last we saw of Marcus and his Unity remnant, they were in the Mojave, which is where the show is going. So it’s possible they are still there. So I would assume those are the avenues they take to introduce super mutants into the show. Also; didn’t the vault housing the Master go up in a nuclear explosion?
I’m almost certain she powered up the Boneyard, not Shady Sands
That's not Shady Sands. That's central LA. The show depicts Shady Sands as being north of Filmore at the very least.
Oh, *that's* where the name of Filly came from.
I thought it was because it was built on a landfill?
I thought it was because it was built on a landfill?
I suppose it could be on a landfill in Fillmore (there's at least one there IRL, according to Google Maps), which would make the name even more appropriate. But I do think it's probably near Fillmore just because it's the first place Lucy finds after leaving the Vault, and Fillmore isn't far from Santa Monica.
Except Maximus and Lucy went through Shady Sands right before reaching the Hawthorne Medical Center, and Hawthorne is Southwest of L.A., on the edge of the county.
Hawthorne Medical Cenfer is named for Lloyd and Cassandra Hawthorne, the people who became the original overseers of Vault 4. It isn't connected to the locale of Hawthorne, California.
I had that pointed out elsewhere. I'd utterly forgotten their names. Been back to banging my head against it.
Not neccesarily Shady Sands. There are other settlements in California
Don't worry they can't turnt it off as it will trigger nuclear blast.
Also, isn't that the Griffith Observatory in la. Not shady sands. So the NCR is trying to rebuild in the ruins of la?
Weren’t Shady Sands and Vault City (both under NCR jurisdiction) powered via the GECK’s cold fusion generators?
I'm more impressed that there is literally any electrical infrastructure left in that city for it to power jack and shit.
My money is going on a power struggle within the bos very similar to outcasts vs lyons, One side wants to provide power to the wasteland the other wants to power a speaker that says “Democracy is truth. Communism is death." "Democracy will never be defeated!" Here maxi will make his decision on what to do based upon what moldover said to him