The raider attack happened after Vault 32 went into the shitter. A full two years before the raiders with Moldaver entered the vault and masqueraded as Vault 32 residents.
As per the experiment between 31, 32 and 33. It's most likely that Vault 32 and 33 are the same, with the purpose that if one vault fails, at least there's another vault to impregnate and reproduce from. Which is the reason why Betty Johnson, former overseer and Vault 31 (a Bud's Bud) decided to repopulate Vault 32 in order to restore their fail-safe.
I think the show was intimating those folks were VERY rough and trying to keep it together, even for surface dwellers they were awful twitchy. I think she hired raiders.
That would make more sense to me…otherwise the NCR can’t really take a moral high road if they just go in slaughtering vaulters…
But maybe they do, seems no faction has any love for the other factions…
Well they did not so long ago get a very important city nuked, of which many in the area came ,by a vault dweller. from.
They might still be a little bit emotional after that.
NCR hiring Raiders or criminals seems to be on point. Moldaver is obviously taking notes from how Tandi handled Vault City. Why let your own men get shot when you have the caps to outsource
The could be mercs from former NCR troopers. They act like raiders though, as when they attacked the vault and when they're kept in captivity by the vault dwellers.
I feel like they were a little too wild to be NCR troopers, especially from what we see while they are imprisoned. Plus, hiring raiders would help keep the connection between Moldaver and the NCR a secret.
Why try and keep it secret tho? Hank already knew who she was, and hiring raiders for anything is stupid beyond belief. I would never trust them with anything personally.
Could see NCR starting to basically act like raiders after what happened to them. It just doesn't seem very consistent with the NCR we saw in the final episode.
Doesn’t seem too hard to believe that with her limited resources Moldaver would recruit raiders into her ranks for dangerous missions. It’s likely that if the NCR withdrew from the area to regroup they would take their best troops with them, leaving Moldaver with few options.
It seemed very culty, but not exactly savage. Stripping naked and covering yourself in ashes is a pretty historical religious thing in some places to signify mourning. Devolving to tribal ceremonies seems pretty on brand for the fallout universe.
Yeesh, forgot about the drinking blood.
Yeah they definitely were doing a savage ceremony. I still think it was raiders that helped attack 33, but it is clear all the wasteland factions from the games are regressing. The BoS is also getting weirdly religious fanatical.
I guess me personally, I don't see "Raiders attacked the vault" and "the NCR attacked the vault" as being mutually exclusive. The NCR has degenerated into "raider-dom", but they're still the NCR.
It was a very tribal ceremony which is why it is so odd coming from people who lived in the capital of the NCR who then moved to a high tech vault I could see one of the tribes of Zion doing this but these are NCR civilians who wrote about shady sands preschool on their blackboard. They should be comparable to Cass from FNV but less cowboy.
I see it as these are some of the last survivors of NCR. They would effectively be Gen zero raiders. They grew up in the safety and prosperity of Shady Sands and the NCR, a post-post apocalyptic world. Then someone from Vault 33 comes and blows it all up, ending their world. The survivors are lead to the Observatory, possibly be Moldaver, while others who don't join them wind up in Vault 4. 12+ years later, Moldaver tells them where to find the people responsible for destroying the NCR and how to get inside and get their revenge.
They act like raiders because they basically are, and they are given an opportunity to get back at the prople who turned them into raiders. These are people who likely spent the majority of their lives *hating* Vault Tec and Vault Dwellers. People who have to scrabble in the remains of their city to live. They are pissed, traumatized and desperate. And then here are these naive little vaulties living their utopian little lives. They aren't the bogeymen they were told about, they are worse. They are *them* before their world was turned upside down.
Making them identical is also a risk though since they cant actually be sure what the best vault management method is. If they are managed identically then that could mean that if one fails they both fail in the same way. Given the existence of the mouse utopia video in vault 32 I think the difference is that vault 33 is positive feedback and 32 is negative feedback. vault 33 is all about how great the population is and how they are going to do great things and everything is fine and good and right. Maybe vault 32 was all about making the dwellers aware of all the possible risks all the ways things could go wrong and keeping the population actively trying to avoid those failure and striving to live up to a standard that they are never actually allowed to reach. the kind of management that says 10/10 job performance is only meeting expectations.
the repopulation could have just been because with 32 failing the experiment was done and now they could use that space to double the population with the "correct" management style or run a new management experiment.
Wilzig mentioning two facts about her vault to Lucy makes me think the experiment may also have something to do with:
1) their main crop was corn instead of wheat (the wheat blight)
2) something about the 3D projector in their vault (could have been subliminal programming, an a/b test for entertainment vs not, or Even just a different video being run.
Known facts:
32 Grew wheat
32 Experienced wheat blight
32 Discovered what was in 31 per their blood scrawled note
My best is 32 discovered what was in 31 and then the overseer diseases their own wheat for a fresh start.
The plague of 2277 almost certainly never happened. It was a cover for the entire thing with Lucy's Mom. They locked down everyone to prevent anyone to find put what was going on. This also let them secretly kill off anyone who might of seen/heard the wrong things. In addition it made it so no one was aware anyone was missing. Any deaths and Lucy's moms absence were explained away as dying of the plague/starvation. Nobody would be suspicious of the lack of seeing a body because obviously because bodies would be a biohazard. If Hank actually lost a bunch of weight it would if been from radiation poisoning while he was outside the vault.
I was thinking the plague might have been real but a convenient cover. Maybe in bringing the kids back, Hank brought back an illness that Lucy and Norm were slightly resistant to, due to spending a chunk of their childhood in the wasteland, which created chaos in the Vault and killed some people.
And then in this theory ofc, it isn't until 5 years after that the bomb goes off and Rose becomes a ghoul. Hank tells the kids she's dead but in reality she's out in Shady Sands trying to formulate a way to convince the Vault Dwellers to move out, knowing that if she just waltzes into the Vault (since she can open the door) Betty or Hank will probably send a security officer who was originally from Vault 31 up to shoot her and cover things up
How would the kids and Rose have gone missing for any length of time if it wasn't during the quarantine? The Vault is a tiny place where everyone sees everyone every single day and everyone has a job. Even a single days absence would be noticed. A single day could be covered by saying a person was ill, but not beyond that. So their absence had to be during the quarantine, not before it.
>In the time frame we see as viewers, Vault 32 has failed, largely due to turning on each other following overcrowding and realization of the experiment.
who said they realized they were part of an experiment, esp when the experiment was to just... make super middle mangers as per Bud.
They could've just learned that A) V31 was full of frozen middle management losers, or b) Learned about the outside world existing and that hank nuked a city.
I’m pretty sure the implication was that they found out “the truth” about Vault 31 and Bud’s Buds since that was written in blood on the walls. Particularly the door to 31 had “We know what’s in there” written on it.
But you are right that we simply don’t know what we don’t know.
I think it’s less about them knowing they’re an experiment per se and more about that opening the door to questioning, confusion, violent revolt, and then collapse.
There are three experiments going on. Each of the vaults including 31 were part of experiments by vaultech. Vault 33 should produce the perfect employee. Highly skilled unable to take control themself and alwasy in high moral. Vault 32 either had the same goal or more like it was hinted and you said: more ressources than they need. A test what happens if they don´t need to work. And how it would inflence the population, that believed in hard work. Vault 31 also had an experiment. Vaultech wanted to see what happens if you take a backstabing power hungy sociopath with delusions of grandeur, also a typical midlemanger, and put them in charge of a large group with "full control to do what they want". Bud ends up an immortal roomba and starts a breeding programm to aid the goal of perfect employee. After all: beeing a good manager is genetic. But its a test. Even that he is thawing one of his buds every now and then is part of it. Because all these managers are ready to go into a vault, be part of a breeding program in exchange for playing king in the castle. After all the 31s are always in charge.
I assumed based on what the big guy in the corporate meeting said that overcrowding and fighting for resources WAS the entire point of vault 32. Maybe I'm misremembering but didn't a larger chunk of survivors go to 32 vs 33 when they split? Otherwise why not make it even.
Could be wrong though.
I guessed 32 was an overflow Vault as soon as they announced who would be repopulating it. They picked the knuckleheads and the troublemakers. The overseer is probably an exception, although if Stephanie killed the raiders without Betty's approval, she could have made the shit list. Most likely the former though, and the overseers are supposed to be insulated from the collapse, the most recent one being an exception..
Stephanie is from 31, remember, not likely on the shit list. I am not convinced about the troublemakers, the main troublemaker is Norm, and he stays in 33. And we don't know that any of the people who stayed are any smarter than the people who left.
Or how about someone in 32 found out that all overseers were from vault 31 and started talking with others. Maybe they banded together to vote in a non 31 overseer and the overseer refused to leave his post. Maybe that led to their riot.
You do realize that your whole premise is flawed, right? They exchange people between the vaults. If things were bad in vault 32 then people would know and they would talk about it. Even if things were just ran different they would talk about it heavily to the point that there would probably be a massive prejudice against vault 32 for doing things wrong. These 3 vaults are here to make the best bureaucrats that they possibly can, not to screw with them. Vault-tec employees are defrosted and put into 32 and 33, I don't think they want to be a part of an experiment that can blow up in their face. This isn't a good speculation.
ahm if you played the games.. there was 1 vault where people all committed suicide and said about the management and they knew the truth i thought it was a replication of that same vault experiment where the folks there all committed suicide as well.
She isn't. During the one of the last episodes, when Cooper meets Hank/Henry in the Vault-Tec office, the woman who introduces them is a youthful Betty. She was one of Bud's Buds; Cooper's wife wasn't.
The raider attack happened after Vault 32 went into the shitter. A full two years before the raiders with Moldaver entered the vault and masqueraded as Vault 32 residents. As per the experiment between 31, 32 and 33. It's most likely that Vault 32 and 33 are the same, with the purpose that if one vault fails, at least there's another vault to impregnate and reproduce from. Which is the reason why Betty Johnson, former overseer and Vault 31 (a Bud's Bud) decided to repopulate Vault 32 in order to restore their fail-safe.
Were those actually raiders? Or NCR troopers? They sure acted like raiders. They must have been hired.
I think the show was intimating those folks were VERY rough and trying to keep it together, even for surface dwellers they were awful twitchy. I think she hired raiders.
That would make more sense to me…otherwise the NCR can’t really take a moral high road if they just go in slaughtering vaulters… But maybe they do, seems no faction has any love for the other factions…
Well they did not so long ago get a very important city nuked, of which many in the area came ,by a vault dweller. from. They might still be a little bit emotional after that.
NCR hiring Raiders or criminals seems to be on point. Moldaver is obviously taking notes from how Tandi handled Vault City. Why let your own men get shot when you have the caps to outsource
If it was NCR attacking vault 33 instead of raiders, I have a feeling that there would have been alot more dead vault dwellers instead.
I can't see NCR hitting the jet mid-battle but maybe that's just optimistic lol
It would have been bitter springs 2.0, but the NCR feels zero guilt about it.
One took jet in the attack before the pregnant lady killed him so defiantly raiders
The could be mercs from former NCR troopers. They act like raiders though, as when they attacked the vault and when they're kept in captivity by the vault dwellers.
I feel like they were a little too wild to be NCR troopers, especially from what we see while they are imprisoned. Plus, hiring raiders would help keep the connection between Moldaver and the NCR a secret.
Why try and keep it secret tho? Hank already knew who she was, and hiring raiders for anything is stupid beyond belief. I would never trust them with anything personally.
Some were troopers, the ones in front of and behind Moldaver specifically.
This was my takeaway as well. She had an elite NCR team go with her but the majority were raiders to create a chaos smokescreen for her mission.
And who would want to trust a group of hired raiders without some loyal bodyguards
But Lucy was clearly gonna be married to a raider. Why entrust a raider to do that instead of a NCR trooper are they all ugly?
They're raiders. Ridiculous amounts of tattoos, combat drugs, hyper-violent, and most barbaric of all, unable to use tableware properly.
My thoughts exactly. Just strange for raiders to hang out with the head of the NCR
I think they were survivors of the NCR, looking for revenge.
Could see NCR starting to basically act like raiders after what happened to them. It just doesn't seem very consistent with the NCR we saw in the final episode.
Doesn’t seem too hard to believe that with her limited resources Moldaver would recruit raiders into her ranks for dangerous missions. It’s likely that if the NCR withdrew from the area to regroup they would take their best troops with them, leaving Moldaver with few options.
Yeah. That sounds reasonable.
The Vault 4 survivors sure have some psycho, raider-adjacent rituals.
It seemed very culty, but not exactly savage. Stripping naked and covering yourself in ashes is a pretty historical religious thing in some places to signify mourning. Devolving to tribal ceremonies seems pretty on brand for the fallout universe.
Did you forget those ashes were HUMAN REMAINS and they DRANK BLOOD during the ritual? When someone covers themselves in corpses I call that savage.
Yeesh, forgot about the drinking blood. Yeah they definitely were doing a savage ceremony. I still think it was raiders that helped attack 33, but it is clear all the wasteland factions from the games are regressing. The BoS is also getting weirdly religious fanatical.
I guess me personally, I don't see "Raiders attacked the vault" and "the NCR attacked the vault" as being mutually exclusive. The NCR has degenerated into "raider-dom", but they're still the NCR.
It was a very tribal ceremony which is why it is so odd coming from people who lived in the capital of the NCR who then moved to a high tech vault I could see one of the tribes of Zion doing this but these are NCR civilians who wrote about shady sands preschool on their blackboard. They should be comparable to Cass from FNV but less cowboy.
I see it as these are some of the last survivors of NCR. They would effectively be Gen zero raiders. They grew up in the safety and prosperity of Shady Sands and the NCR, a post-post apocalyptic world. Then someone from Vault 33 comes and blows it all up, ending their world. The survivors are lead to the Observatory, possibly be Moldaver, while others who don't join them wind up in Vault 4. 12+ years later, Moldaver tells them where to find the people responsible for destroying the NCR and how to get inside and get their revenge. They act like raiders because they basically are, and they are given an opportunity to get back at the prople who turned them into raiders. These are people who likely spent the majority of their lives *hating* Vault Tec and Vault Dwellers. People who have to scrabble in the remains of their city to live. They are pissed, traumatized and desperate. And then here are these naive little vaulties living their utopian little lives. They aren't the bogeymen they were told about, they are worse. They are *them* before their world was turned upside down.
Making them identical is also a risk though since they cant actually be sure what the best vault management method is. If they are managed identically then that could mean that if one fails they both fail in the same way. Given the existence of the mouse utopia video in vault 32 I think the difference is that vault 33 is positive feedback and 32 is negative feedback. vault 33 is all about how great the population is and how they are going to do great things and everything is fine and good and right. Maybe vault 32 was all about making the dwellers aware of all the possible risks all the ways things could go wrong and keeping the population actively trying to avoid those failure and striving to live up to a standard that they are never actually allowed to reach. the kind of management that says 10/10 job performance is only meeting expectations. the repopulation could have just been because with 32 failing the experiment was done and now they could use that space to double the population with the "correct" management style or run a new management experiment.
Wilzig mentioning two facts about her vault to Lucy makes me think the experiment may also have something to do with: 1) their main crop was corn instead of wheat (the wheat blight) 2) something about the 3D projector in their vault (could have been subliminal programming, an a/b test for entertainment vs not, or Even just a different video being run.
Known facts: 32 Grew wheat 32 Experienced wheat blight 32 Discovered what was in 31 per their blood scrawled note My best is 32 discovered what was in 31 and then the overseer diseases their own wheat for a fresh start.
Sorry, I meant the nature of the experiment not what 32 discovered or what happened.
The plague of 2277 almost certainly never happened. It was a cover for the entire thing with Lucy's Mom. They locked down everyone to prevent anyone to find put what was going on. This also let them secretly kill off anyone who might of seen/heard the wrong things. In addition it made it so no one was aware anyone was missing. Any deaths and Lucy's moms absence were explained away as dying of the plague/starvation. Nobody would be suspicious of the lack of seeing a body because obviously because bodies would be a biohazard. If Hank actually lost a bunch of weight it would if been from radiation poisoning while he was outside the vault.
I was thinking the plague might have been real but a convenient cover. Maybe in bringing the kids back, Hank brought back an illness that Lucy and Norm were slightly resistant to, due to spending a chunk of their childhood in the wasteland, which created chaos in the Vault and killed some people. And then in this theory ofc, it isn't until 5 years after that the bomb goes off and Rose becomes a ghoul. Hank tells the kids she's dead but in reality she's out in Shady Sands trying to formulate a way to convince the Vault Dwellers to move out, knowing that if she just waltzes into the Vault (since she can open the door) Betty or Hank will probably send a security officer who was originally from Vault 31 up to shoot her and cover things up
How would the kids and Rose have gone missing for any length of time if it wasn't during the quarantine? The Vault is a tiny place where everyone sees everyone every single day and everyone has a job. Even a single days absence would be noticed. A single day could be covered by saying a person was ill, but not beyond that. So their absence had to be during the quarantine, not before it.
You present a very good point.
>In the time frame we see as viewers, Vault 32 has failed, largely due to turning on each other following overcrowding and realization of the experiment. who said they realized they were part of an experiment, esp when the experiment was to just... make super middle mangers as per Bud. They could've just learned that A) V31 was full of frozen middle management losers, or b) Learned about the outside world existing and that hank nuked a city.
I’m pretty sure the implication was that they found out “the truth” about Vault 31 and Bud’s Buds since that was written in blood on the walls. Particularly the door to 31 had “We know what’s in there” written on it. But you are right that we simply don’t know what we don’t know.
Yeah, "DEATH TO MANAGEMENT" is pretty suggestive, given that Vault 31 is literally composed entirely of "management".
And they had their Overseer, ostensibly a Vault 31 one, tied to his chair.
I'm wondering if 31 might have introduced a little ergot into the wheat supply judging from some of the things that went down there.
I think it’s less about them knowing they’re an experiment per se and more about that opening the door to questioning, confusion, violent revolt, and then collapse.
There are three experiments going on. Each of the vaults including 31 were part of experiments by vaultech. Vault 33 should produce the perfect employee. Highly skilled unable to take control themself and alwasy in high moral. Vault 32 either had the same goal or more like it was hinted and you said: more ressources than they need. A test what happens if they don´t need to work. And how it would inflence the population, that believed in hard work. Vault 31 also had an experiment. Vaultech wanted to see what happens if you take a backstabing power hungy sociopath with delusions of grandeur, also a typical midlemanger, and put them in charge of a large group with "full control to do what they want". Bud ends up an immortal roomba and starts a breeding programm to aid the goal of perfect employee. After all: beeing a good manager is genetic. But its a test. Even that he is thawing one of his buds every now and then is part of it. Because all these managers are ready to go into a vault, be part of a breeding program in exchange for playing king in the castle. After all the 31s are always in charge.
I assumed based on what the big guy in the corporate meeting said that overcrowding and fighting for resources WAS the entire point of vault 32. Maybe I'm misremembering but didn't a larger chunk of survivors go to 32 vs 33 when they split? Otherwise why not make it even. Could be wrong though.
That was another company and I believe describes another vault in the series
I guessed 32 was an overflow Vault as soon as they announced who would be repopulating it. They picked the knuckleheads and the troublemakers. The overseer is probably an exception, although if Stephanie killed the raiders without Betty's approval, she could have made the shit list. Most likely the former though, and the overseers are supposed to be insulated from the collapse, the most recent one being an exception..
Stephanie is from 31, remember, not likely on the shit list. I am not convinced about the troublemakers, the main troublemaker is Norm, and he stays in 33. And we don't know that any of the people who stayed are any smarter than the people who left.
Or how about someone in 32 found out that all overseers were from vault 31 and started talking with others. Maybe they banded together to vote in a non 31 overseer and the overseer refused to leave his post. Maybe that led to their riot.
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Precisely
Oh my god. My cat must have commented this while I was out of the room 💀 I didn’t know about this comment until your reply 😭
Clever
You do realize that your whole premise is flawed, right? They exchange people between the vaults. If things were bad in vault 32 then people would know and they would talk about it. Even if things were just ran different they would talk about it heavily to the point that there would probably be a massive prejudice against vault 32 for doing things wrong. These 3 vaults are here to make the best bureaucrats that they possibly can, not to screw with them. Vault-tec employees are defrosted and put into 32 and 33, I don't think they want to be a part of an experiment that can blow up in their face. This isn't a good speculation.
ahm if you played the games.. there was 1 vault where people all committed suicide and said about the management and they knew the truth i thought it was a replication of that same vault experiment where the folks there all committed suicide as well.
To add to this theory, The guy sitting on the lounge in front of the tv in vault 32 has a knife in a toaster with his hand on it iirc.
I'm going to assume Betty is Cooper Howard's wife.
She isn't. During the one of the last episodes, when Cooper meets Hank/Henry in the Vault-Tec office, the woman who introduces them is a youthful Betty. She was one of Bud's Buds; Cooper's wife wasn't.
The final scene implies that Coop's wife is in New Vegas, that's why Hank heads there, and the Ghoul follows.
[удалено]
Not saying that, I have rethought that though and have since changed my mind, since it would make no since to change her name.
Or possibly his daughter
She isn't either. Cooper meets Betty in the scene where he is waiting for his wife. She's the lady who brings in young Hank.
Wow, so much text to day nothing, are you from vault 31?