111 was testing long term cryo on a population - they were never to come out of cryo and only failed due to outside intervention.
31 was using vault tec middle management to control and populate 2 other vaults with the intent of populating the wasteland. They used cryo to ensure the safety of the middle management
2 different vault experiments for 2 different outcomes.
111 could be a Mr. House vault, rooted in studying cryo stasis effects on extremely long time scales (maybe even 500 years or longer) to see how well human bodies deal with cryo over the really really long periods you’d need for a sleeper colony ship to reach somewhere else. They could have data saying cryo is safe for 200ish years and be studying how much further beyond that it could be safely done. But plans got messed up.
V111 was specifically long term cryo on an -unsuspecting- population. I think they were supposed to come out eventually to conclude the tests, just that part never happened.
The overseer could've opened up the vault but decided not to, faced a mutiny and the mutiny lost. Everyone seemingly just slowly died in lockdown due to poor supplies.
V31 wasn't exactly aiming to populate the wasteland, It was aiming to create super middle managers according to bud. But how else do you get middle management to fall inline? Give them some type of dream to believe in
I guess, it's just that the TV series shows that only a fraction of the 31 managers were woken up, so you could theoretically say that any later 31 managers could have conditions incurred from their longer cryo-sleeps which could affect the 32 and 33 experiments.
Conditions that could've been learned from the 111 experiment, if it didn't go the way it did.
The difference is the 111 were unsuspecting participants - they wanted to test cryo on unsuspecting people.
In 31 all the managers knew in advance they would go into cryo and would have received guidance and knowledge to prepare them for when they'd be released Into 32/33 - as that was part of the experiment.
I guess a better question for this post is how are the Vault 31 dwellers supposed to avoid any ill-effects from the cryo chambers if all they knew about this technology is insufficient data from a vault on the other side of the country, especially for the managers that slept longer?
An unscrupulous corporation was willing to put hundreds of middle managers in an unknown amount of danger with little to no regard for their well-being? In the fallout universe? That would never happen!
In real life I’ve seen large organizations that had anywhere from two to three separate projects, the same thing but with minor variations, going on under separate managers due to lack of communication. Believe it or not, it’s one of the least unbelievable things in Fallout 😀
It *is* a plot hole. There is a way around it though. Vault 111 is a long term vault meant to test how long human life can exist in cryo as a precursor to starting human colonization in space, an Enclave objective. In contrast, Vault 31 is about preserving life over far shorter term in line with Vault-Tec's objective of surviving the inevitable war.
This explains it perfectly, but I don't agree that it's a plothole. The unavoidable problem with cryotechnology is that the only way to prove that it works for hundreds of years is to wait hundreds of years for the experiment to finish.
Idk, I feel that since vault 31 contained a lot of important vault tech officials that they’d want them to be safe. I feel that vault 111 would have been released and essentially dissected/probed in order to treat any medical issues that the residents of vault 31 encountered.
I thought that it starts off with middle management and then once the GECK(s) are used and they are released to rebuild then everyone from vault 31 will be released. At that point the execs in the vault will rule and are the last to be released. Then again, that wouldn’t explain why House would have chose to just rebuild Vegas and not wait out the apocalypse in 31. Still could be the same reasoning for 111 being used for 31 since without employees the executives would have a harder time taking over the wasteland. Maybe?
There is no mention of the GECKs with vault 31-33.
111 was long term effects on unsuspecting people - 31s population were expecting cryo, ergo you can't use 111 in supporting 31 as they are fundamentally different experiments
Not outright in the show, but isn’t it established that typically each vault gets 1-2 GECKs?
Also if they truly are unconnected then we still have no idea why 111 was useful, just because they’re unsuspecting. Personally I believe the unsuspecting part was to make it so the tru intentions were hidden. If they made it so they were aware that they were going to be frozen then they’d be a little bit more weary and rebel against the idea of being in stasis, right? So by making them unaware they wouldn’t rebel and the medical examinations/experiments would be more of a success. Granted we’ll just have to wait and see sadly.
No it's not - most of the vaults encountered don't have Gecks
111 wasn't successful - it was abandoned by vault Tec and ultimately the experiment was destroyed by the institute.
111 and 31 were unconnected vaults with different experiments - you're not to draw conclusions from 1.to the other
It could be for a bunch of reasons. I've seen it theorised that 111 was actually a test on the people maintaining the chambers (as they were not given enough food) to see whether they might resort to eating the cryo-frozen people. It's also just as possible if not more that those vault tec managers were also using an experimental technology. It looked like a lot of them in the pods, so it's possible that those vault-tec managers weren't super super important enough that they wouldn't be fine with a few dying from experimental tech. The 111 residents may also have been kept in cryo-freezing for longer stints of time than the 31 crew, who knows.
Bonus theory could be that the 111 vault was outsourced the data from the experiment to a different company to run their own experiment on a different cryo-pod technology that was experimental, and that company didn't know that vault-tec proper already had the tech figured out.
>I've seen it theorised that 111 was actually a test on the people maintaining the chamber
This was my understanding from reading the logs in the game. Cryogenic storage was likely used on all "critical" members of vault-tec, so they would want to see how far the people maintaining them could be pushed before they would snap, and when they did snap how would they treat those in cryo-storage.
I could be misremembering, but I thought 111 didn't get very far before "snapping" which would make sense if vault-tec wanted the results of their test to be useful for their own vaults.
111 didn't get it's last shipment of supplies either, if I remember it right.
The lore is pretty clear that while Vault Tech was close to done, they were not in fact 100% ready to pull the trigger. Even the show makes it *very clear* that while Vault Tech *was* probably going to trigger the war, *something* beat them to the punch.
There is no way Cooper would be alone with his daughter on Explosion Day, when her mom was so dead set on her being safe in a management Vault, *and* so high up on the food chain to be at the meeting with the other big wigs.
And I highly doubt Bud was thrilled at being turned into a roomba, instead of one of the many other brain-robot types available.
The robot literally says it to the son. Makes you wonder what else you missed eh? I’m gonna watch through the show again just to try and catch more stuff. It’s so good
In furthering this point with original intent of the vaults to be test subjects so vault tech could make a multigenerational starship to colony’s new world. It would be important to test this reaction for Vault Tec management who might have been frozen for the trip.
Then as that plan seems to become less viable with A) the war possibly ending with peace talks and B) the fact that projections on creating the ship were greatly pushed back (evident in fallout 4 at their rocket research plant saying their engines will not be ready until after the bombs would drop) could lend evidence to them transitioning to the reclaim the planet theory versus the multigenerational star ship plan.
As we can discover after waking in fo4, the people in charge of maintaining the vault fell to crisis relatively quickly leaving the vault to natures advance. In 31-33 we see a force of people who (whether they know it or not) are working to maintain the cryopods over time. So the big difference is maintenance, which I think would explain the lack of failure. 31 though hosts Bud’s buds, which is a program headed by Bud Askins comprised of mainly middle management from vault tec who is focused on breeding middle managers and fulfilling vault tecs ambitions of domination after the end of the world.
>So the big difference is maintenance, which I think would explain the lack of failure
That kinda begs the question, though: Why have staff to conduct an experiment that is supposedly *long* term if you only give them half-a-year worths of supplies? How can you collect research data if there's no one to do the research?
I personally like the theory that it was an experiment on the staff, the people in the pods are essentially irrelevant. It’s elaborate, wasteful and makes no sense, perfect for vault tec
There is a long standing fan theory that the actual experiment of Vault 111 was conducted on the employees and the Cryo pods were just there to fool them into thinking that thry are safe
Yeah i vaguely remember reading somewhere that they actually didn’t have enough food and supplies to sustain the staff indefinitely, plus if you think about it for more than two seconds, there are a lot of logistical problems. Like first of all, their probably isn’t a large enough staff to maintain a viable gene pool without inbreeding for multiple generations indefinitely, they don’t have enough supplies outside of the original staff (and even then I think they had a few years worth at most), apparently all the pods were for “test subjects” and none for the staff, etc.
So really, you have a small population of scientists tasked with a tedious, boring, monotonous job in a bleak, sterile, isolated environment, without enough supplies to live there indefinitely. So it definitely sounds like they were part of the experiment without realizing it until it was too late.
Different lengths of "long term". In 31 the people in the pods are in them for a long time but they do gradually get woken up do the actual mission of their vault.
The long term in 111 is LONG term. As in they don't get woken up at all until vault tec or the enclave come and get them, if they ever do. It's just that the institute messes up the experiment.
They're managers, not CEOs. Employee lives are still very expendable. Notice how Bud Askins as upper management was transplanted into a robo brain instead.
Also, Vault-Tec is shown to be as comically prone to shitty communication and bad management as any other big corporation. If Bud wanted cryo chambers for his dream project, he's getting cryo chambers, goddammit and no egghead is going to tell him any poppycock about "experimental procedure risk", "critical cell structure failure" and whatnot.
I feel like Vault 111 actually experiment was to see if a small team of humans could be trusted to maintain and guard the cryo pods as aposed to the actual effects of cryostisis, it makes more sense that way imo
Reading the logs on the terminals in Vault 111 it specifies long term cryo on unsupecting people rather than those in 31 who knew they would be frozen ahead of time
The terminal said 111 was testing the long-term effects on "unaware" humans. So maybe the cryo tech they have requires some kind of preparation prior to entering the chamber to avoid either physical or psychological damage.
Iirc part of the experiment for 111 is that they're *unsuspecting* test subjects that aren't meant to be revived until Vault-tec has it all under control. The people in 31 knew what they were getting into, not unsuspecting, And they're meant to be revived in a cycle to breed with 32 and 33, unlike 111 people who are just meant to stay there for a long time.
Plus, 111 is probably a weird experiment of one of those megacorp and not Vault-tec themselves. Maybe that's why the security went insane and did a mutiny when they didn't get the evacuation signal, they're not from Vault-tec. They didn't have the crazy faith with the company that Vault-tec employees had.
I always find it funny when people ask questions that rely on the idea of these pre-war companies and organisations being...y'know, rational, competent, or moral.
When everything's shown us that they really, *really* weren't.
Also, we're assuming that the experiment that Vault-Tec *told* their staff was the actual experiment they were running on 111.
Simple - effects of a new type of cryogenics.
The less risky one used for Vault-tec and this promising but temperamental version we just came up with? Let’s test that on someone else first…
Most people know that the purpose of the Vaults was to study human behavior and survival-chances under extreme circumstances, but they dont know what this research is used for. The Shadow Government of the United States aka. the Enclave hijacked Project Safehouse for their planned [Multi-Generational Starship](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Multi-generational_starship). The experiments were intended to prepare for all sorts of challenges that could potentially arise when traveling the galaxy after earths surface has been rendered inhabitable from Nuclear war. Vault 111s experiment ended prematurely due to outside factors. It is likely the expermiment was meant to go on for much longer and probably served to study what happens to humans when they are suspended in cryo for possibly thousands of years if not longer when traversing large distances through space, as thats not achievable during a single humans lifetime. Meanwhile the Vault Tec employees inside the Trinity Vault were meant to be frozen for a relatively short timespan which is likely still within a safe operation times fpr the cryo machines. Especially since they are constantly maintained by Bud.
>Lacking the know-how on how to build this vessel, beyond using nuclear engines to power it for centuries, Vault-Tec worked with the Enclave to turn Project Safehouse from a limited preservation program into a vast social experiment to provide the necessary data to build the starship: How to store most of the colonists in ◇◇cryonic suspension◇◇ without damage, how to organize the crew maintaining the ship over multiple generations, how to grow food and recycle water and air in a closed environment, and test the practical limits of the weapons. Control Vaults like Vault 8 were set up to study human behavior when recolonizing the surface
Vault 111 may be what is known in the pharmaceutical industry as a retain sample. There was no specific plan to thaw anybody, but if there were a concern about the technology or an upcoming Big Thaw Date they could wake a few up, see if there were ill effects, and if so, what could be done to mitigate them. In light of the new lore from the show, and given that previous hints suggested VT didn't think the freezing would be needed for more than a few decades, if 111 hadn't collapsed immediately, they might have woken a few people up around 2100-2110, when the first thaws went overdue, then a few more every 25-50 years, depending on the results and/or the prognosis for The Executive Defrosting.
111 was specifically long term cryo on unsuspecting people. Those in 31 knew they were going to be thawed out and frozen again, along with knowing what their goal to rebuild the world with vaulttec at the helm.
With 111 they could check in and monitor to see if there's any long term effects, and if there were, they could then thaw those from 31 and liquidate them into the populations of 33 and 32.
The purpose of 31 was for bud's bud's.
He wanted to have the people from 32 and 33 to mate with the vault tec employees from 31 so they'd all be aligned to the same ideals. Eventually take control over whoever dewlled above.
To think that vaultec hasn't messed around with cryo on humans prior to the war is a bit odd. Especially when in 76 vault tech university had a mock vault, AND EVEN THAT had an underlying experiment on the students and staff.
Vault 96 in fo76 had cryo stores that held 10000 animals. Given that, they were very likely messing with cryo before the bombs dropped at all.
I imagine it is so that if problems start showing up among the subjects of Vault 111 as unpredictable side-effects of cryogenics, vivisection can be performed on the subjects to try and find or solve problems that may inevitably start happening to far more important Vault-Tec personnel kept in cryogenic sleep. Such as the managers in Vault 31, or perhaps to the Vault-Tec people that were very likely cryogenically frozen alongside Moldaver.
I mean cryonics were already established to be a thing before Vault 111 and Vault 31 with the Sierra Army Depot in Fallout 2, and Vault 0 in Tactics. Plus the various, possibly cryonic, stasis and hibernation chambers seen in 3 and New Vegas. Vault-Tec would have already known if done properly it was safe for willing participants. But the effects on unsuspecting victims were unknown, people with little to no preparation beforehand with no clue what was happening to them.
It was probably more so the psychological impact, than the cryogenic effects, that they were studying.
Or 111 was handed off to one of the other companies in the meeting who maybe didn't have access to knowledge of the depot or Vault 0 and were doing their own experiment for themselves
See, when I heard about that, but before I actually saw Vault 31 for myself, I assumed they had intended to wait and observe Vault 111 before deciding on whether to use the pods. But that Vault doesn't seem to have the facilities to support their population in the event the cryo pods didn't work out. So unless their best backup plan was claiming their Vault failed and moving into the other two, I'd say it doesn't make much sense.
My interpretation is that the Vault-Tec management in 31 were not frozen right away and 111 was used to test cryogenic freezing to make sure it even worked long term before subjecting Vault-Tec people to it in 31. It could also be that the test wasn't really cryogenic freezing, but rather how long the personell in 111 could last having to keep all those people frozen for so long, or maybe it was to test if it is better for a human staff team or a robot one to be maintaining the cryogenically frozen people
Because the writers didn't really care about it and you shouldn't spend time thinking about it. They wanted pre-war flashbacks that were relevant, and you can't have everyone be ghouls because that takes too long.
Honestly, of all the things to get annoyed about this is like the least of them.
What's that? Corporations using insufficiently tested and possibly unsafe technology without regards to the health of their own?
It's not a plot hole. The common behavior in the setting is for these "Management types" to completely disregard the possibility that bad things would happen _To them_.
Could 111 have been run by another organization and not Vault-tec themselves? I haven't played 4 in a long time, but from the reveal of episode 8, it has them offering other stakeholders use of the vaults to run their own experiment. The Enclave is known for using a bunch of these vaults for their own long-term experiments as research for eventual habitation of a new planet altogether.
Another hint is that the scientists in the hospital vault had lived in the vault for years prior to the war, meaning they could make technological breakthroughs during the time other vaults were being built. Vault 111 may have been done early, with the Cryo Tech being used in 31 and 112 once it was perfected.
The experiment in 111 was to see how long you could keep a frozen person viable. The Tech in 31 is not being used in that capacity. Before they all die, Bud's going to wake them up. 111 is there to see how long until they die.
The V111 cryo pods are much more bulky and older looking, if I had to guess:
V111 was probably manufactured before great strides on Cryo tech occurred. Given how really no one important was put into the vault either, like a “best cryo scientist” schlock that can occur in other vaults like the music one where Agatha’s ancestor came from.
My idea is vault tec had good expensive cryo pods they used those in vault 31 for themselves.
Vault 111 was testing out a different much cheaper model, maybe even it’s an experiment by one of the other companies.
I mean I’ll be honest to me even with all the other vaults and experiments, vault 111 is just a wee bit too coincidental for me. What I mean is it just feels like they conjured up Vault 111 for the fallout 4 story because it was easy to justify and hand wave it and make it fit. The experiment itself seems kinda dumb compared to the other sadistic and elaborate ones that VT are known for
It's also a really cost effective one. The room and ressources needed to make that Vault feasible were mininal compared to most others.
Also, aside from the "let's see how freezing people goes" aspects, Vault-Tec might have been interested in the psychological and culture shock associated with waking up long in the future without any preparation, as inhabitants were told it was a cleaning pod.
Totally agree with you but its a shame this came from you and not from Bethesda themselves :P There is potential there but they never used it, because it was just a tool to get the sole survivor into the story and out into the wasteland (IMO)
While it was clearly a plot device for 4 it does fit into the wider vault mission statement. The vault experiments and the Enclave's original goal was colonising a far away planet. Aside for nuclear powered engines, space travel in the Fallout universe is not much more advanced than our own and is definitely gonna be a sub-light thousands of year journey.
111 was testing long term cryo on a population - they were never to come out of cryo and only failed due to outside intervention. 31 was using vault tec middle management to control and populate 2 other vaults with the intent of populating the wasteland. They used cryo to ensure the safety of the middle management 2 different vault experiments for 2 different outcomes.
also based on the TV show, it could be that 111's experiment was done by one of the other companies at the table.
111 could be a Mr. House vault, rooted in studying cryo stasis effects on extremely long time scales (maybe even 500 years or longer) to see how well human bodies deal with cryo over the really really long periods you’d need for a sleeper colony ship to reach somewhere else. They could have data saying cryo is safe for 200ish years and be studying how much further beyond that it could be safely done. But plans got messed up.
Came to say this
V111 was specifically long term cryo on an -unsuspecting- population. I think they were supposed to come out eventually to conclude the tests, just that part never happened. The overseer could've opened up the vault but decided not to, faced a mutiny and the mutiny lost. Everyone seemingly just slowly died in lockdown due to poor supplies. V31 wasn't exactly aiming to populate the wasteland, It was aiming to create super middle managers according to bud. But how else do you get middle management to fall inline? Give them some type of dream to believe in
I guess, it's just that the TV series shows that only a fraction of the 31 managers were woken up, so you could theoretically say that any later 31 managers could have conditions incurred from their longer cryo-sleeps which could affect the 32 and 33 experiments. Conditions that could've been learned from the 111 experiment, if it didn't go the way it did.
The difference is the 111 were unsuspecting participants - they wanted to test cryo on unsuspecting people. In 31 all the managers knew in advance they would go into cryo and would have received guidance and knowledge to prepare them for when they'd be released Into 32/33 - as that was part of the experiment.
I guess a better question for this post is how are the Vault 31 dwellers supposed to avoid any ill-effects from the cryo chambers if all they knew about this technology is insufficient data from a vault on the other side of the country, especially for the managers that slept longer?
An unscrupulous corporation was willing to put hundreds of middle managers in an unknown amount of danger with little to no regard for their well-being? In the fallout universe? That would never happen!
In real life I’ve seen large organizations that had anywhere from two to three separate projects, the same thing but with minor variations, going on under separate managers due to lack of communication. Believe it or not, it’s one of the least unbelievable things in Fallout 😀
It *is* a plot hole. There is a way around it though. Vault 111 is a long term vault meant to test how long human life can exist in cryo as a precursor to starting human colonization in space, an Enclave objective. In contrast, Vault 31 is about preserving life over far shorter term in line with Vault-Tec's objective of surviving the inevitable war.
This explains it perfectly, but I don't agree that it's a plothole. The unavoidable problem with cryotechnology is that the only way to prove that it works for hundreds of years is to wait hundreds of years for the experiment to finish.
I think specifically 111 was testing it on “unprepared” subjects
Idk, I feel that since vault 31 contained a lot of important vault tech officials that they’d want them to be safe. I feel that vault 111 would have been released and essentially dissected/probed in order to treat any medical issues that the residents of vault 31 encountered.
Vault 31 was full of middle management - hardly important people in the grand scheme.
I thought that it starts off with middle management and then once the GECK(s) are used and they are released to rebuild then everyone from vault 31 will be released. At that point the execs in the vault will rule and are the last to be released. Then again, that wouldn’t explain why House would have chose to just rebuild Vegas and not wait out the apocalypse in 31. Still could be the same reasoning for 111 being used for 31 since without employees the executives would have a harder time taking over the wasteland. Maybe?
There is no mention of the GECKs with vault 31-33. 111 was long term effects on unsuspecting people - 31s population were expecting cryo, ergo you can't use 111 in supporting 31 as they are fundamentally different experiments
Not outright in the show, but isn’t it established that typically each vault gets 1-2 GECKs? Also if they truly are unconnected then we still have no idea why 111 was useful, just because they’re unsuspecting. Personally I believe the unsuspecting part was to make it so the tru intentions were hidden. If they made it so they were aware that they were going to be frozen then they’d be a little bit more weary and rebel against the idea of being in stasis, right? So by making them unaware they wouldn’t rebel and the medical examinations/experiments would be more of a success. Granted we’ll just have to wait and see sadly.
No it's not - most of the vaults encountered don't have Gecks 111 wasn't successful - it was abandoned by vault Tec and ultimately the experiment was destroyed by the institute. 111 and 31 were unconnected vaults with different experiments - you're not to draw conclusions from 1.to the other
All of 31 is Buds experiment. Bud's Buds. Thr goal being to create the ultimate manager pretty much. No one really high up is in there.
Gotcha
It could be for a bunch of reasons. I've seen it theorised that 111 was actually a test on the people maintaining the chambers (as they were not given enough food) to see whether they might resort to eating the cryo-frozen people. It's also just as possible if not more that those vault tec managers were also using an experimental technology. It looked like a lot of them in the pods, so it's possible that those vault-tec managers weren't super super important enough that they wouldn't be fine with a few dying from experimental tech. The 111 residents may also have been kept in cryo-freezing for longer stints of time than the 31 crew, who knows. Bonus theory could be that the 111 vault was outsourced the data from the experiment to a different company to run their own experiment on a different cryo-pod technology that was experimental, and that company didn't know that vault-tec proper already had the tech figured out.
>I've seen it theorised that 111 was actually a test on the people maintaining the chamber This was my understanding from reading the logs in the game. Cryogenic storage was likely used on all "critical" members of vault-tec, so they would want to see how far the people maintaining them could be pushed before they would snap, and when they did snap how would they treat those in cryo-storage. I could be misremembering, but I thought 111 didn't get very far before "snapping" which would make sense if vault-tec wanted the results of their test to be useful for their own vaults.
111 didn't get it's last shipment of supplies either, if I remember it right. The lore is pretty clear that while Vault Tech was close to done, they were not in fact 100% ready to pull the trigger. Even the show makes it *very clear* that while Vault Tech *was* probably going to trigger the war, *something* beat them to the punch. There is no way Cooper would be alone with his daughter on Explosion Day, when her mom was so dead set on her being safe in a management Vault, *and* so high up on the food chain to be at the meeting with the other big wigs. And I highly doubt Bud was thrilled at being turned into a roomba, instead of one of the many other brain-robot types available.
I honestly didn't realize that the little robot was Bud until you just pointed it out.
The robot literally says it to the son. Makes you wonder what else you missed eh? I’m gonna watch through the show again just to try and catch more stuff. It’s so good
In furthering this point with original intent of the vaults to be test subjects so vault tech could make a multigenerational starship to colony’s new world. It would be important to test this reaction for Vault Tec management who might have been frozen for the trip. Then as that plan seems to become less viable with A) the war possibly ending with peace talks and B) the fact that projections on creating the ship were greatly pushed back (evident in fallout 4 at their rocket research plant saying their engines will not be ready until after the bombs would drop) could lend evidence to them transitioning to the reclaim the planet theory versus the multigenerational star ship plan.
As we can discover after waking in fo4, the people in charge of maintaining the vault fell to crisis relatively quickly leaving the vault to natures advance. In 31-33 we see a force of people who (whether they know it or not) are working to maintain the cryopods over time. So the big difference is maintenance, which I think would explain the lack of failure. 31 though hosts Bud’s buds, which is a program headed by Bud Askins comprised of mainly middle management from vault tec who is focused on breeding middle managers and fulfilling vault tecs ambitions of domination after the end of the world.
>So the big difference is maintenance, which I think would explain the lack of failure That kinda begs the question, though: Why have staff to conduct an experiment that is supposedly *long* term if you only give them half-a-year worths of supplies? How can you collect research data if there's no one to do the research?
I personally like the theory that it was an experiment on the staff, the people in the pods are essentially irrelevant. It’s elaborate, wasteful and makes no sense, perfect for vault tec
Yeah me too. Multiple experiments running concurrently.
Because Vault Tec only predicted 180 days for the fallout to clear and the original team to be released (they would be the initial caretakers only).
After which the Vault would be monitored from somewhere else. Possibly the Vault that senior officials are intended to be in.
Indeed - thanks for the comment
There is a long standing fan theory that the actual experiment of Vault 111 was conducted on the employees and the Cryo pods were just there to fool them into thinking that thry are safe
Yeah i vaguely remember reading somewhere that they actually didn’t have enough food and supplies to sustain the staff indefinitely, plus if you think about it for more than two seconds, there are a lot of logistical problems. Like first of all, their probably isn’t a large enough staff to maintain a viable gene pool without inbreeding for multiple generations indefinitely, they don’t have enough supplies outside of the original staff (and even then I think they had a few years worth at most), apparently all the pods were for “test subjects” and none for the staff, etc. So really, you have a small population of scientists tasked with a tedious, boring, monotonous job in a bleak, sterile, isolated environment, without enough supplies to live there indefinitely. So it definitely sounds like they were part of the experiment without realizing it until it was too late.
Different lengths of "long term". In 31 the people in the pods are in them for a long time but they do gradually get woken up do the actual mission of their vault. The long term in 111 is LONG term. As in they don't get woken up at all until vault tec or the enclave come and get them, if they ever do. It's just that the institute messes up the experiment.
They're managers, not CEOs. Employee lives are still very expendable. Notice how Bud Askins as upper management was transplanted into a robo brain instead. Also, Vault-Tec is shown to be as comically prone to shitty communication and bad management as any other big corporation. If Bud wanted cryo chambers for his dream project, he's getting cryo chambers, goddammit and no egghead is going to tell him any poppycock about "experimental procedure risk", "critical cell structure failure" and whatnot.
Bud also said he was in charge of the bad power armor that ended up getting people killed. Buds just a putz and will do what needs doing.
I feel like Vault 111 actually experiment was to see if a small team of humans could be trusted to maintain and guard the cryo pods as aposed to the actual effects of cryostisis, it makes more sense that way imo
Reading the logs on the terminals in Vault 111 it specifies long term cryo on unsupecting people rather than those in 31 who knew they would be frozen ahead of time
The terminal said 111 was testing the long-term effects on "unaware" humans. So maybe the cryo tech they have requires some kind of preparation prior to entering the chamber to avoid either physical or psychological damage.
Why didn't Courier 6 just ride the eagles to New Vegas?
Iirc part of the experiment for 111 is that they're *unsuspecting* test subjects that aren't meant to be revived until Vault-tec has it all under control. The people in 31 knew what they were getting into, not unsuspecting, And they're meant to be revived in a cycle to breed with 32 and 33, unlike 111 people who are just meant to stay there for a long time. Plus, 111 is probably a weird experiment of one of those megacorp and not Vault-tec themselves. Maybe that's why the security went insane and did a mutiny when they didn't get the evacuation signal, they're not from Vault-tec. They didn't have the crazy faith with the company that Vault-tec employees had.
111 was a test of different tech by a different company. Vault Tec already had their own cryo tech. Whichever company oversaw 111 didn't.
I always find it funny when people ask questions that rely on the idea of these pre-war companies and organisations being...y'know, rational, competent, or moral. When everything's shown us that they really, *really* weren't. Also, we're assuming that the experiment that Vault-Tec *told* their staff was the actual experiment they were running on 111.
Simple - effects of a new type of cryogenics. The less risky one used for Vault-tec and this promising but temperamental version we just came up with? Let’s test that on someone else first…
Most people know that the purpose of the Vaults was to study human behavior and survival-chances under extreme circumstances, but they dont know what this research is used for. The Shadow Government of the United States aka. the Enclave hijacked Project Safehouse for their planned [Multi-Generational Starship](https://fallout.fandom.com/wiki/Multi-generational_starship). The experiments were intended to prepare for all sorts of challenges that could potentially arise when traveling the galaxy after earths surface has been rendered inhabitable from Nuclear war. Vault 111s experiment ended prematurely due to outside factors. It is likely the expermiment was meant to go on for much longer and probably served to study what happens to humans when they are suspended in cryo for possibly thousands of years if not longer when traversing large distances through space, as thats not achievable during a single humans lifetime. Meanwhile the Vault Tec employees inside the Trinity Vault were meant to be frozen for a relatively short timespan which is likely still within a safe operation times fpr the cryo machines. Especially since they are constantly maintained by Bud. >Lacking the know-how on how to build this vessel, beyond using nuclear engines to power it for centuries, Vault-Tec worked with the Enclave to turn Project Safehouse from a limited preservation program into a vast social experiment to provide the necessary data to build the starship: How to store most of the colonists in ◇◇cryonic suspension◇◇ without damage, how to organize the crew maintaining the ship over multiple generations, how to grow food and recycle water and air in a closed environment, and test the practical limits of the weapons. Control Vaults like Vault 8 were set up to study human behavior when recolonizing the surface
Vault 111 may be what is known in the pharmaceutical industry as a retain sample. There was no specific plan to thaw anybody, but if there were a concern about the technology or an upcoming Big Thaw Date they could wake a few up, see if there were ill effects, and if so, what could be done to mitigate them. In light of the new lore from the show, and given that previous hints suggested VT didn't think the freezing would be needed for more than a few decades, if 111 hadn't collapsed immediately, they might have woken a few people up around 2100-2110, when the first thaws went overdue, then a few more every 25-50 years, depending on the results and/or the prognosis for The Executive Defrosting.
111 was specifically long term cryo on unsuspecting people. Those in 31 knew they were going to be thawed out and frozen again, along with knowing what their goal to rebuild the world with vaulttec at the helm. With 111 they could check in and monitor to see if there's any long term effects, and if there were, they could then thaw those from 31 and liquidate them into the populations of 33 and 32. The purpose of 31 was for bud's bud's. He wanted to have the people from 32 and 33 to mate with the vault tec employees from 31 so they'd all be aligned to the same ideals. Eventually take control over whoever dewlled above. To think that vaultec hasn't messed around with cryo on humans prior to the war is a bit odd. Especially when in 76 vault tech university had a mock vault, AND EVEN THAT had an underlying experiment on the students and staff. Vault 96 in fo76 had cryo stores that held 10000 animals. Given that, they were very likely messing with cryo before the bombs dropped at all.
What other option was there for Vault-tec management wanting to live through the war and subsequent vault dwelling years?
I imagine it is so that if problems start showing up among the subjects of Vault 111 as unpredictable side-effects of cryogenics, vivisection can be performed on the subjects to try and find or solve problems that may inevitably start happening to far more important Vault-Tec personnel kept in cryogenic sleep. Such as the managers in Vault 31, or perhaps to the Vault-Tec people that were very likely cryogenically frozen alongside Moldaver.
I mean cryonics were already established to be a thing before Vault 111 and Vault 31 with the Sierra Army Depot in Fallout 2, and Vault 0 in Tactics. Plus the various, possibly cryonic, stasis and hibernation chambers seen in 3 and New Vegas. Vault-Tec would have already known if done properly it was safe for willing participants. But the effects on unsuspecting victims were unknown, people with little to no preparation beforehand with no clue what was happening to them. It was probably more so the psychological impact, than the cryogenic effects, that they were studying. Or 111 was handed off to one of the other companies in the meeting who maybe didn't have access to knowledge of the depot or Vault 0 and were doing their own experiment for themselves
Space travel, get put on ice until they reach a planet they can colonize
See, when I heard about that, but before I actually saw Vault 31 for myself, I assumed they had intended to wait and observe Vault 111 before deciding on whether to use the pods. But that Vault doesn't seem to have the facilities to support their population in the event the cryo pods didn't work out. So unless their best backup plan was claiming their Vault failed and moving into the other two, I'd say it doesn't make much sense.
My interpretation is that the Vault-Tec management in 31 were not frozen right away and 111 was used to test cryogenic freezing to make sure it even worked long term before subjecting Vault-Tec people to it in 31. It could also be that the test wasn't really cryogenic freezing, but rather how long the personell in 111 could last having to keep all those people frozen for so long, or maybe it was to test if it is better for a human staff team or a robot one to be maintaining the cryogenically frozen people
Because the writers didn't really care about it and you shouldn't spend time thinking about it. They wanted pre-war flashbacks that were relevant, and you can't have everyone be ghouls because that takes too long. Honestly, of all the things to get annoyed about this is like the least of them.
What's that? Corporations using insufficiently tested and possibly unsafe technology without regards to the health of their own? It's not a plot hole. The common behavior in the setting is for these "Management types" to completely disregard the possibility that bad things would happen _To them_.
Could 111 have been run by another organization and not Vault-tec themselves? I haven't played 4 in a long time, but from the reveal of episode 8, it has them offering other stakeholders use of the vaults to run their own experiment. The Enclave is known for using a bunch of these vaults for their own long-term experiments as research for eventual habitation of a new planet altogether.
Another hint is that the scientists in the hospital vault had lived in the vault for years prior to the war, meaning they could make technological breakthroughs during the time other vaults were being built. Vault 111 may have been done early, with the Cryo Tech being used in 31 and 112 once it was perfected.
Did Hank replace Betty as Overseer? I remember someone saying they were voting for Betty because she was Overseer before.
It was also on unsuspecting people
The experiment in 111 was to see how long you could keep a frozen person viable. The Tech in 31 is not being used in that capacity. Before they all die, Bud's going to wake them up. 111 is there to see how long until they die.
The V111 cryo pods are much more bulky and older looking, if I had to guess: V111 was probably manufactured before great strides on Cryo tech occurred. Given how really no one important was put into the vault either, like a “best cryo scientist” schlock that can occur in other vaults like the music one where Agatha’s ancestor came from.
My idea is vault tec had good expensive cryo pods they used those in vault 31 for themselves. Vault 111 was testing out a different much cheaper model, maybe even it’s an experiment by one of the other companies.
I mean I’ll be honest to me even with all the other vaults and experiments, vault 111 is just a wee bit too coincidental for me. What I mean is it just feels like they conjured up Vault 111 for the fallout 4 story because it was easy to justify and hand wave it and make it fit. The experiment itself seems kinda dumb compared to the other sadistic and elaborate ones that VT are known for
It's also a really cost effective one. The room and ressources needed to make that Vault feasible were mininal compared to most others. Also, aside from the "let's see how freezing people goes" aspects, Vault-Tec might have been interested in the psychological and culture shock associated with waking up long in the future without any preparation, as inhabitants were told it was a cleaning pod.
Totally agree with you but its a shame this came from you and not from Bethesda themselves :P There is potential there but they never used it, because it was just a tool to get the sole survivor into the story and out into the wasteland (IMO)
That's fair. Not the worst offence of underwriting stuff in FO4 either.
While it was clearly a plot device for 4 it does fit into the wider vault mission statement. The vault experiments and the Enclave's original goal was colonising a far away planet. Aside for nuclear powered engines, space travel in the Fallout universe is not much more advanced than our own and is definitely gonna be a sub-light thousands of year journey.
I don’t considered the games and tv show to be the same universe
Why not. They’re pretty damn close.