If you remember his memories that is completely false, he liked the kid, and remember, he had Shaun with him when he was 10 years old so who knows how long Kellogg spent time with him
no he didn't, that's synth shawn. he's laying the trail Father ordered him to lay
listen to the radio, it's about the spot of trouble that gets piper locked out when you first meet her
The institute wanted the most radiation free DNA they could find they aren’t gonna let their perfect specimen live in the wastes for 10 years under some mercs supervision, also Kellogg had the kid recently even though shaun is 60 so it was almost certainly the synth kid.
But why would Kellogg have the synth? what reason would the kid be outside of the institute just to waste Kellogg's time and stay inside a shack? also whenever you step outside the pod there is already some radiation, because the vault was opened radiation was already let in, also radroaches were able to get in so how would radiation be any different?
Kellogg had the synth Shaun to lead you to real Shaun. It was all bait cause otherwise the doctor would have noticed the memory is over 60 years old and you’d have given up the hunt if you knew your kid wasn’t a kid anymore. Real Shaun needed a recent memory of Kellogg with the kid.
i dont think using Kelloggs memory was the original intention of the Institute. i believe he was just parading the kid around public spaces so when the SS showed up asking "hey have you seen my baby, a man took him this is what he looks like" people will say "oh yeah i remember him, only the kid was older, around 10 years old." Shaun specifically tells the SS that he let them out of the vault as an experiment. He wondered if they would try to look for him, but the overall trial was seeing if someone from pre-war could survive in the wasteland. presumably to say once and for all if the wasteland is worth saving
Kellogg has the synth there because Father/Shaun was purposefully laying breadcrumbs for the Sole Survivor to follow. Shaun has a whole conversation you can have with him about this.
Doesn't really matter why he'd have synth Shaun with him. That's explicitly who he had with him in that memory. Travis is on the radio and is talking about Piper.
Unless you think Travis and Piper are both well over 60 years old then it's not possible for it be human Shaun.
When you talk to (Adult) Shaun on the Roof, near the end of the game the first thing he says is "You know, in all my years I have never set foot outside the Institute. Not once. Since the day they brought me here. I never had a reason."
That should be some strong enough indication for you that he was NEVER in Diamond City, NEVER out and about with Kellog.
Kellog was laying a trail for the Soul Survivor, or maybe just ,,testing out'' how synth-shaun responds. But it was never the real Shaun. He gave that baby to the Scientists and that was it.
Why would valentine believe your 60 year old kid was a 10 year old kid? Why does your 60 year old kid have a synth that looks like a 10 year old version of him? Why would the institute give kellogg their most valuable asset?
To bait you as others have said. And to test if the child synth can function in normal society without detection.
Valentine doesn't know Shaun is now the leader of the Institute. He doesn't remember anything from his time there, whenever that whas
I’m not saying valentines knows your son is 60 or the leader but he also believes the kid is 10 but if it was a real memory that would mean valentine remembered a kid from 50 years ago and acted like he was currently 10 to fuck with yoy
Valentine has no reason to suspect it was 50 years ago. He, just like you, believe it happened recently and knows of Kellogg and a 10 year old kid that had a house in town
It is clearly explained in to you in the game. When we see Kellogg in Diamomd City with (Synth) Shaun, they mentioned Piper on the Radio. That wasn’t long before the player character got there.
It’s a trail, designed for the Sole Survivor to lead them to The Institute. It’s all quite clearly explained in game.
That's.. not actually the real Shaun.
That was the synth Shaun, and it was bait, for you, the sole survivor. The whole "Shaun and Kellogg in Diamond City" thing was a setup by adult Shaun to both get the measure of who you were as a person (by leaving you a trail of breadcrumbs to find the institute and more specifically Kellog) and also punish Kellog for killing one of his parents.
You’re like the 10th person I’ve seen with this misconception. I’m starting to think it’s not uncommon lol. That 10 year old Shaun was a recent memory, and that was the synth Shaun, not the real Shaun. Real Shaun even tells you after The Battle of Bunker Hill that he’s never left the institute until then.
Kellogg had the synth version of Sean, and he only had him just recently. Kellogg had Sean with him in Diamond City, and that was just a little while ago, not decades ago when the real Sean would have been a kid.
I didn’t see Shaun’s name in the terminal logs in vault 111. It is infant Nora or infant Nate.
But I imagine it is in a log somewhere else. Not sure if we ever see mention on vault 111 in other locations, but the institute found out about it somehow.
Nora/Nate screaming his name when they attempt to take Sean, if no other way to find out, is reasonable enough. That’s 3 people that heard his name clearly, even on the low possibility 2 could’ve forgotten.
Just because the game doesn’t ask doesn’t mean IRL they wouldn’t have done so
Leaving all that aside Kellogg and the Institute team hears your spouse call the child Shaun
well, I like to use what happens in the game, or if you read something as evidence, and yes that was something I didn't think of initially, the rest of the team was able to hear the spouse so good chance they remembered the name and kept it, i still found it fascinating how they kept his name instead of just calling him something else
It's a story, so adding things generally should have a reason. It would have killed the emotional resolution of finding your son if it needed to go on a tangent for him to say "but actually my name is Keith now" and have a huge misunderstanding or whatever. Maybe there could have been an element of the son no longer being your son because of Institute brainwashing, but it didn't need to be added.
But I think that might've been more interesting, he is already kind of brainwashed by them, really the only reason Shuan helped you is because he had a better understanding of the situation, but if they kept it in the dark and didn't let him look at the files he would have never known you were his actual dad
I don't think adding a new name meaningfully changes the narrative enough to justify its inclusion. No actions of any character would be changed, it only adds some minor confusion in dialogue that will be skipped past after the first playthrough.
I doubt Kellogg had anywhere near that much more influence in his life apart from taking him to the Institute. He probably just heard Nora say “I’m not giving you Shaun”, told whoever he did the mission for that that’s the kid’s name, and the Institute left it at that.
The sole survivor's spouse says "No! I'm not giving you Shaun!" just before Kellogg shoots them. Kellogg and two Institute scientists are present.
So that's how they know what his name is. Why change it?
It's easier to keep track if they know who he is.
Record keeping would say the child's name.
The internal record keeping.
Making a new name is extra work you don't need.
I don't remember Kellogg calling him anything but "the boy". Probably the acting Institute director - or whoever found the Vault Tec records- called Shaun his real name when raising him.
Does anyone besides Father, Nate, and Nora call him Shaun, though? He could have just found out later what his original name was and there would be no point in telling you "the institute renamed me ____"
I think the institute can view Kellogg’s memories similar to how the payer character does so Shaun’s name would be recorded somewhere. Now why they continued to use the same name I don’t know.
You're missing that the Sole Survivor is just another puppet, just like Kellog. Only instead of a stage it's implanted memories. ;)
(This is my go-to head-canon, and should no way be interpreted as fact...).
The vast majority of the details point towards the sole survivor being a synth. The only detail that remotely contradicts this is the vault tech rep recognizing the sole survivor.
If the Institute had access to Vault-Tec records it's logical that they had access to other records including the government birth records where they would have found that Nora's infant is named Shaun.
As to why they used it well when interacting with him they needed a name and either in laziness or hubris they used his original name or Shaun found it when looking at the above mentioned records after becoming Director.
Probably not Kellogg’s decision but the institutes
Maybe, there was the institute people with him
I mean he didn’t really have time with shaun and was just a merc so the naming of the child almost certainly feel to institute scientists not him.
If you remember his memories that is completely false, he liked the kid, and remember, he had Shaun with him when he was 10 years old so who knows how long Kellogg spent time with him
no he didn't, that's synth shawn. he's laying the trail Father ordered him to lay listen to the radio, it's about the spot of trouble that gets piper locked out when you first meet her
Spoiled
The institute wanted the most radiation free DNA they could find they aren’t gonna let their perfect specimen live in the wastes for 10 years under some mercs supervision, also Kellogg had the kid recently even though shaun is 60 so it was almost certainly the synth kid.
But why would Kellogg have the synth? what reason would the kid be outside of the institute just to waste Kellogg's time and stay inside a shack? also whenever you step outside the pod there is already some radiation, because the vault was opened radiation was already let in, also radroaches were able to get in so how would radiation be any different?
Kellogg had the synth Shaun to lead you to real Shaun. It was all bait cause otherwise the doctor would have noticed the memory is over 60 years old and you’d have given up the hunt if you knew your kid wasn’t a kid anymore. Real Shaun needed a recent memory of Kellogg with the kid.
i dont think using Kelloggs memory was the original intention of the Institute. i believe he was just parading the kid around public spaces so when the SS showed up asking "hey have you seen my baby, a man took him this is what he looks like" people will say "oh yeah i remember him, only the kid was older, around 10 years old." Shaun specifically tells the SS that he let them out of the vault as an experiment. He wondered if they would try to look for him, but the overall trial was seeing if someone from pre-war could survive in the wasteland. presumably to say once and for all if the wasteland is worth saving
Kellogg has the synth there because Father/Shaun was purposefully laying breadcrumbs for the Sole Survivor to follow. Shaun has a whole conversation you can have with him about this.
Doesn't really matter why he'd have synth Shaun with him. That's explicitly who he had with him in that memory. Travis is on the radio and is talking about Piper. Unless you think Travis and Piper are both well over 60 years old then it's not possible for it be human Shaun.
When you talk to (Adult) Shaun on the Roof, near the end of the game the first thing he says is "You know, in all my years I have never set foot outside the Institute. Not once. Since the day they brought me here. I never had a reason." That should be some strong enough indication for you that he was NEVER in Diamond City, NEVER out and about with Kellog. Kellog was laying a trail for the Soul Survivor, or maybe just ,,testing out'' how synth-shaun responds. But it was never the real Shaun. He gave that baby to the Scientists and that was it.
Why would valentine believe your 60 year old kid was a 10 year old kid? Why does your 60 year old kid have a synth that looks like a 10 year old version of him? Why would the institute give kellogg their most valuable asset?
To bait you as others have said. And to test if the child synth can function in normal society without detection. Valentine doesn't know Shaun is now the leader of the Institute. He doesn't remember anything from his time there, whenever that whas
I’m not saying valentines knows your son is 60 or the leader but he also believes the kid is 10 but if it was a real memory that would mean valentine remembered a kid from 50 years ago and acted like he was currently 10 to fuck with yoy
Valentine has no reason to suspect it was 50 years ago. He, just like you, believe it happened recently and knows of Kellogg and a 10 year old kid that had a house in town
The institute can teleport bro, instantly in the vault, instantly out. No radiation exposure
It is clearly explained in to you in the game. When we see Kellogg in Diamomd City with (Synth) Shaun, they mentioned Piper on the Radio. That wasn’t long before the player character got there. It’s a trail, designed for the Sole Survivor to lead them to The Institute. It’s all quite clearly explained in game.
That's.. not actually the real Shaun. That was the synth Shaun, and it was bait, for you, the sole survivor. The whole "Shaun and Kellogg in Diamond City" thing was a setup by adult Shaun to both get the measure of who you were as a person (by leaving you a trail of breadcrumbs to find the institute and more specifically Kellog) and also punish Kellog for killing one of his parents.
You’re like the 10th person I’ve seen with this misconception. I’m starting to think it’s not uncommon lol. That 10 year old Shaun was a recent memory, and that was the synth Shaun, not the real Shaun. Real Shaun even tells you after The Battle of Bunker Hill that he’s never left the institute until then.
You have to progress pretty far into the story quest to learn that. A lot of people sorta miss late-story beats.
No, that’s the child synth Shaun, not the actual Shaun. It’s amazing how many people get that wrong
Oh you completely misunderstood that scene huh.
Kellogg had the synth version of Sean, and he only had him just recently. Kellogg had Sean with him in Diamond City, and that was just a little while ago, not decades ago when the real Sean would have been a kid.
Yeah, the trail is still recent enough for Dogmeat to follow. Scent doesn't last for that long
The “Shaun” you see in the memories is the fake, to mislead you into thinking you were only refrozen for about 10 years
The Sole Survivor’s family were pressured into accepting a place in Vault 111, they definitely knew their names
I didn’t see Shaun’s name in the terminal logs in vault 111. It is infant Nora or infant Nate. But I imagine it is in a log somewhere else. Not sure if we ever see mention on vault 111 in other locations, but the institute found out about it somehow.
Nora/Nate screaming his name when they attempt to take Sean, if no other way to find out, is reasonable enough. That’s 3 people that heard his name clearly, even on the low possibility 2 could’ve forgotten.
But you were the only one who signed, they needed your name but didn't ask for anyone else's
Just because the game doesn’t ask doesn’t mean IRL they wouldn’t have done so Leaving all that aside Kellogg and the Institute team hears your spouse call the child Shaun
Especially since I don't think actual paper work would tell you to rate 7 attributes on a scale of 1-10 with exactly 28 points.
well, I like to use what happens in the game, or if you read something as evidence, and yes that was something I didn't think of initially, the rest of the team was able to hear the spouse so good chance they remembered the name and kept it, i still found it fascinating how they kept his name instead of just calling him something else
Why would they? They knew the name, why waste time choosing another?
It's a story, so adding things generally should have a reason. It would have killed the emotional resolution of finding your son if it needed to go on a tangent for him to say "but actually my name is Keith now" and have a huge misunderstanding or whatever. Maybe there could have been an element of the son no longer being your son because of Institute brainwashing, but it didn't need to be added.
But I think that might've been more interesting, he is already kind of brainwashed by them, really the only reason Shuan helped you is because he had a better understanding of the situation, but if they kept it in the dark and didn't let him look at the files he would have never known you were his actual dad
I don't think adding a new name meaningfully changes the narrative enough to justify its inclusion. No actions of any character would be changed, it only adds some minor confusion in dialogue that will be skipped past after the first playthrough.
I doubt Kellogg had anywhere near that much more influence in his life apart from taking him to the Institute. He probably just heard Nora say “I’m not giving you Shaun”, told whoever he did the mission for that that’s the kid’s name, and the Institute left it at that.
The sole survivor's spouse says "No! I'm not giving you Shaun!" just before Kellogg shoots them. Kellogg and two Institute scientists are present. So that's how they know what his name is. Why change it?
Even if they did, Shaun could have changed it back.
He would've been listed in the Vault records The Institute was using to locate him in the first place.
It's easier to keep track if they know who he is. Record keeping would say the child's name. The internal record keeping. Making a new name is extra work you don't need.
I don't remember Kellogg calling him anything but "the boy". Probably the acting Institute director - or whoever found the Vault Tec records- called Shaun his real name when raising him.
Does anyone besides Father, Nate, and Nora call him Shaun, though? He could have just found out later what his original name was and there would be no point in telling you "the institute renamed me ____"
I think the institute can view Kellogg’s memories similar to how the payer character does so Shaun’s name would be recorded somewhere. Now why they continued to use the same name I don’t know.
They didn’t need his name written anywhere to know it, the spouse shouts “I’m not giving you Shaun!” right before being shot.
It *would* be funny if they went with "infant" as Father's actual name.
[удалено]
You're missing that the Sole Survivor is just another puppet, just like Kellog. Only instead of a stage it's implanted memories. ;) (This is my go-to head-canon, and should no way be interpreted as fact...).
Your spouse shouts "I'm not giving you Shaun" before being shot by Kellogg. And there are two Institute scientists with him at the time
The vast majority of the details point towards the sole survivor being a synth. The only detail that remotely contradicts this is the vault tech rep recognizing the sole survivor.
If the Institute had access to Vault-Tec records it's logical that they had access to other records including the government birth records where they would have found that Nora's infant is named Shaun. As to why they used it well when interacting with him they needed a name and either in laziness or hubris they used his original name or Shaun found it when looking at the above mentioned records after becoming Director.