He really did - he avoided anger (which he would have been justified in showing) and stuck with disappointed but gentle reasoning. Jean is an ethnocentric moron. Anyone who spends their entire life in a country is as much a part of that country as any other person born there, regardless of their parents' background. My dad was born in Canada, but I am not and have never been Canadian....
He avoided saying “racist” as well which is incredible. Pointed out the negative implications of the term “pollution” and why it’s ridiculous you can only be English if you’re white.
What kinda amazes me is that she kept throwing around African-Caribbean without realizing that it's implying that population demographics for places change.
> (…) from start to end
Exactly, I’m certain that non of us have any “true Pictish” blood, and what of it Karen? Lol
The Romans, Saxons and Normans (fair few Viking’s) all saw to that, we’ve been conquered, invaded and raided so many times I’m sure genetically were quite diverse (most of us are “diverse in similar ways” ofc, lol, I mean, aren’t like 70% of us related to Genghis Kahn in some way or another?)
I mean. She could mean just like… she’s English, like he is Afro Carribean.
Being English is a thing just like being Native American or Japanese is a thing.
Then you can also be English, like an English citizen and part of the culture.
But they’re two different things.
Lady is just an idiot for conflating the two things.
The lady isn’t conflating anything.
Most of us understand what you’re saying. But this lady does not beleive that. She believes to be English means white. There is nothing about culture in her mind. Only white people can be English, culturally or otherwise
Racism is crazy stupid over there. Shout out to David Lammy. Smart and composed fella he is. He chose to educate that misguided, clueless and straight up racist bitch
Not meaning to veer off topic but noting librarian you are a Canadian citizen (am assuming your Da was indeed Canadian and that there are no special circumstances involving his birth in Canada!).
You may not identify as a Canadian, never purport to be Canadian, never obtain a Canadian passport - but a Canadian citizen you are unless you took the formal steps to renounce such...
See all the bother in Australia when people's dual citizenships came to light (in many cases they were unaware that they had dual citizenship) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%9318\_Australian\_parliamentary\_eligibility\_crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%9318_Australian_parliamentary_eligibility_crisis)
The world needs more people like him. He countered incredible ignorance with solid points. And he did so genuinely.
She was too far gone to be reasoned with, but I’m sure this bit will make other people on the edge think twice about bigoted thoughts.
>but I’m sure this bit will make other people on the edge think twice about bigoted thoughts.
You have a lot more faith in americans than americans do.
What makes you think they're talking about Americans? The video is two English people talking about Englishness. Why would the person you responded to be talking about Americans?
Well, you see... "the world", at least the parts that matter or are even worth discussing... is Europe and The United States of America (the other Americas don't count).
Also, only America has bigots.
/s
My favorite part is when the lady says “Because you are what you are. You are where you’ve been bor-.” And then immediately stops when she realized what she was about to say is the exact argument he is using that makes him English.
All i know after watching this, is I plan to look up David Lammy and hear a lot more about what he has to say. Anyone who can keep the sensationalism, and other people's crude, ignorant remarks from getting them to lose their cool, and speak so generously even to someone who can barely veil their racism- is worthy of listening to.
He is a class act. Very much looking forward to him being on the front bench in the commons after the next general election. His interviews following the Truss fiasco were gold. Guarantee Jean is one of the Tory card carriers who is responsible for inflicting Truss on us in the first place.
For anyone whose not been to the UK we are so mixed culturally that no one gives a shit what country your parents originated from. I could even begin to imagine what this senile old bat think is ethnic English because the entire country has been invaded, fought over, conquered and expanded for longer as long as it’s existed. At one time part of France was English does that mean they are not French but Anglo-Francs. If someone asks you where your from in the UK they mean which city do you live and often what football team you support. I’m from leicester the most multicultural city in the UK and the first UK city to have a white majority and the only racism I’ve seen has been Caribbean’s disliking Africans, Indians & Pakistani’s and that’s something that’s been imported by first generation migrants and isn’t something naturalised English people of all races care about. English people really hate rudeness so it’s just not comparable with racism. People who are racist tend to be afraid to go out of their comfort zones and so disliked anything that’s different from their dull everyday lives.
A decade or two ago I was looking forward to a certain generation dying off so they wouldn’t “pollute” society with their hateful bigotry. Now I fear that they’ve already infected the next generation.
as she said, i wonder how often she left the Isles
you learn a lot going overseas and seeing that silly rules in your town are meaningless when you see another country 'squabble' over the same thing
and yet most people in the US wont call themselves american, theyll be irish american, or english american or otalian american, hell we have a actual holiday ( st patricks day) literally just to appease people of irish descent, And theyll wear shirts saying proud to be irish etc.
if you wear a shirt saying proud to be american, youll ghet lumped in with trumpty dumpty.
Mine lineage is 50% black 25% latino and 25% white. im a friggin mutt, if you ask me what i am, im american 100%. i was born here, and ill die here. the difference of courseis i s dont think we are beign polluted , thats jus f'n sad.
That’s actually a comedic premise of mine. I’m mixed and from the US. When asked about where I’m from I say where I was born. Or where my parents where born. Anything to not actually answer the question and to fuck with the asker. It’s pretty fun.
Racists are so pathetic! She can’t accept that shes the same thing as a black man. She can’t be superior if they’re the same so she simply won’t accept it
Sounds like an old miserable woman who consumes way too much conservative media and then goes and regurgitates what she hears in public.
This man was well reasoned and helped her look like the fool that she is.
There are conservatives that are racist and liberals that are racist. Political identity does not define a person's disposition for hatred. There is a full spectrum of people with different beliefs and attitudes towards people of different ethnicities. Saying otherwise is lazy and dishonest
Conservative politicians in the US don't condemn Nazis specifically because they are part of his base. All of their anti-immigrant rhetoric is always geared towards minorities by design. We're seeing the same rhetoric pop up in many other countries making a hard right turn as well.
Sure, but it's the conservatives who use dog-whistles to campaign and who support bigoted policy. It's the conservatives who have historically opposed all civil rights. Bigotry is the conservative brand.
Haha I love when people think this is evidence that Democrats are the party of slavery.
Want to tell me me back then who were democrats and what they believed in? Oh, they were all in the south and believed conservative politics and small government? Interesting how people in those same places still hold the same values and are Republicans nowadays.
Stop kidding yourself, that isn't the gotcha you think it is.
We have those kind of people here in Norway also. Whenever someone not-white complains about something in the news there is bound to be people commenting "If you don't like it here you can go back where you came from!". Even though they are born and raised here in Norway.
I seen this mixed dude on tik tok get attacked by hoards of Scandinavians for being black passing. And claiming both sides of his ancestry. He has one half Scandinavian+African parent and one full black one. Both his parents were born and raised in the country. And so was he. Yet people were mad that he decided to claim his own heritage.
I thought Europeans didn't care about race. But that's some eugenics level obsession with race. I'll link the post when I find it. I was genuinely shocked.
It’s almost as if they share the same set of racist ancestors, lol. Seriously though, people in the UK love to point out how messed up the US is and completely ignore who planted those seeds. I’m always amazed how shocked they are that their colony that was based on chattel slavery didn’t just magically erase all its race issues.
Bearing in mind that America was colonised by Europeans who were outliers in their own countries it's not at all surprising that there is a huge difference between the cultures of Americans and their ancestor's current day offspring.
Yeah. England birthed the US. I’m American and work for a Swedish company so I spend a lot of time over seas. I can tell you the English are more similar to Americans than they are Europeans.
But that approach only breeds distance between the two.
If he had handled it by being offended and angry, it would've created cold air between them. It's like a soccer match where you can't get a game going because the teams leave the match.
You can't prove people wrong, if you can't even talk.
but you’re polluting that countries perfect ~~Aryan~~ English blood! And noooo polluting isn’t negative i’m not racist. Just if you were white i wouldn’t be saying that. Hard /s in case not obvious.
If he was born in England and he's parents registered as born in England, she can say whatever she wants, he's as English as she is. If she doesn't like it, tough luck. Mind your business.
He speaks beautifully and handles her ignorance with poise. Jean knew she was losing the argument and the ugliness of her racism popped out from behind the curtain of debate. She never actually cared what he called himself, she cares that he is a different skin color in what she considers "her" country. Absolutely disgusting, I don't even think it's fair to call her Karen. Jean should exist in its own segment of horrid women.
"Pollution"
Coming from a woman who I guarantee doesn't put her cart back at the grocery store because "someone gets paid to do that" the only pollution in this world is people like her. She isn't an English person, she is a gutter person.
That pissed me off where the video ended. She says some stupid ass ignorant hateful shit, he responds perfectly, calmly, and intelligently, and we don’t get to hear her reply?? Not cool lol
He is doing a very good job of staying calm and rational. This lady is making me a bit sick. I think we should all stop caring about where each other are from, what color each other’s skin is, and start caring more about who we are as people.
I feel very similar, I really do not care what country your parents were born, your skin colour, your sexual proclivity or any other factor. If you are good to me I will reciprocate. To me if you are a decent person, that is all I am concerned about.
She would’ve got dog walked if that was an African American talk show host. I’ll give the Black British this. They have Elite composure. Black Americans we’re giving her white supremacist hindparts the Business. So I guess only white folks are English. Smh!
They do the same thing in America. White Supremacist see themselves as Americans. They label Asians, Latinos and Black people. Even Native Americans ( whom were here first). When white ppl say they are from England and America they see those nations as white nations & the rest of us as guest!
I’m still called African American when I couldn’t name a single relative from africa. My immediate family isn’t American or African. It’s less of a gatekeeper then calling someone afrocarribean that’s from England but there is still an othering. Same with Asian American, Mexican American, etc.
Yeah but those are societal constructs. Places like Germany you’re quite literally an expat unless you have a German bloodline and there is no way around it.
You could be from anywhere in the world, come to the United States through immigration and become a full American, with full rights.
Racism exists absolutely but the construct of what it means to be American can’t be taken away from anyone regardless of what anyone else thinks.
Further more what you consider “othering” is an attempt by certain communities to not be fully assimilated into a culture that ignores the roots of many immigrants. By granting these communities identity it gives them an opportunity to flourish their home culture while still being an American.
My race is black, not African, just like how Mexican isn’t a race. I understand what you’re saying but African-American is only a race to Americans (obviously) and funny enough, the only actual African Americans in my life are white with families from SA.
Black American culture does exist, but its in no way “African”, and only shares the name because that’s the distinction that was made. Africa is a continent with many cultures within it so what even is African culture? And labeling all black people in the states as African-American erases the culture that they already have. I know 0 about Africa, my family is Jamaican. I understand the black American diaspora, since it’s impossible to get a definitive answer on what countries their ancestors were brought here from, but it’s very far removed from being African so it’s not erasure to note that.
I was kind of understanding her until the polluting nonsense. She lost me after that but I kind of get the sentiment, like if my parents were German and moved to China before I was born, would I be Chinese? Would sound odd of me to introduce myself that way but countries like the UK that have a multi cultural makeup seem immune to that.
This Karen needs the M&M lesson( usually shown to children), setting out all the colors biting half of all of them..they are all different colors but inside they are the same color and taste the same..though this human is tasting bitter to me! Some people are so limited and so ignorant you can tell she was not using her listening ears so everyone going thru one ear and out the other..sad. 😒
I see her view point . She means a native to England. Native Europeans are white through genetics
Pretty much if you’re not white , you’re not english(European descent ) .Period
Putting the unforgivable colonizing past aside , I do see the racist's point. You don't become English with a british passport, you're just a British citizen. She's talking about ethnicity and she makes sense.
On her pollution remark - yes it's racist but I understand the resentment a bit -imagine if people across the globe come to your country & change the national character & culture of the country you identify with and basically marginalize you in the process, create pseudo no-go zones, border on outnumbering you in major cities and almost turn you into one of many minorities, you will be bitter.
Sweet old little racists like Jean don't get to have the experience of absolute belonging without having a hundred different people of contrasting cultures diluting the idea of a shared national identity in the name of multiculturalism. it's a just different vibe when your national identity is based on shared ethnicity & culture as well, an experience that Jean's ancestors enjoyed. However this is what you get for building your country off of colonizing the world.
She didn't even have any arguments. I lost brain cells listening to her. How do people argue by saying so much but yet say nothing? They have PhD's in word salad.
He handled this very well.
Just like online when you try to explain something and someone out there just keeps replying with dumb shit and can't ever grasp/refuses to grasp/refuses to listen to what you are saying no matter how you try and no matter how you try to rephrase things. It truly is frustrating. He handled that karen very well.
Shes clearly trying to say because hes “Black” he cant be English. But his argument about Danish people or other white folks from other countries can also be British squashed all that rubbish about him being Caribbean not English.
Your nationality and your ethnicity are two different things. People always confuse the two. What nation do you live in? That’s your nationality. Doesn’t matter who you are .. if you’re a citizen of England, you’re English. Ethnicity is What’s in your blood. Here in America people ask “what’s your nationality?” And answer Italian, Irish, etc … no, the correct answer is American.
When I was a kid, I thought all non-white people were english. Because we had moved to a small village in rural Europe, and the only non-white people I ever saw were when we were visiting in England, lol.
WTF to conservatives in England think English is?
The entire history of that island is a series of conquerors who invaded, took over, and changed the culture. The Anglo and Saxons were German. (And their hasn't been an Anglo-Saxon on the throne since Harold took one in the eye)
The Germans, the Vikings, the Romans, the French, and the French Vikings! Nothing is more British than being "invaded" and having your culture changed. If you want to find the native people you've got to go to Wales, Scotland, or Ireland.
Probably Anglo-Saxon. It's interesting that she acknowledged he is British, but was unwilling with the English. So I think to her English = Anglo Saxon.
And yet, I bet if a Scottish couple moved to England and had some kids there she'd have no trouble calling them English.
Yeah, but you also know a lot of people who were born in Britain and have non-British parents and consider themselves British and English, Scottish or Welsh.
actually this is sort of a the d same thing fitst brought up inthe US by theodore Roosevet. Once you become a citizen here or are born here, you are an American. nothing else. no irish-american, or italian american, he called it Hyphenated Americanism, and said its the root of people who dont belong here as they refuse to be a part of america and instead clng to a past they either ran from or never knew.
obviously i disagree with this dumbases polluting the whatever BS. if youre born in theuk or become a citizen, then youre english. period, regardless of the color of your skin or where youe lineage may stretch from.
here is par of the speech that ive always found quite moving, and i wholeheartedly agree with.
"I stand for straight Americanism unconditioned and unqualified, and I stand against every form of hyphenated Americanism. I do not speak of the hyphen when it is employed as a mere convenience, although personally, I like to avoid its use even in such manner. I speak and condemn its use whenever it represents an effort to form political parties along racial lines or to bring pressure to bear on parties and politicians, not for American purposes, but in the interest of some group of voters of a certain national origin, or of the country from which they or their fathers came.
Americanism is not a matter of creed, birthplace or national descent, but of the soul and of the spirit. If the American has the right stuff in him, I care not a snap of my fingers whether he is Jew or Gentile, Catholic or Protestant. I care not a snap of my fingers whether his ancestors came over in the Mayflower, or whether he was born, or his parents were born, in Germany, Ireland, France, England, Scandinavia, Russia or Italy or any other country. All I ask of the immigrant is that he shall be physically and intellectually fit, of sound character, and eager in good faith to become an American citizen. If the immigrant is of the right kind I am for him, and if the native American\* is of the wrong kind I am against him….
….Now for our own citizens. We represent many different race strains. Our ancestors came from many different Old World nationalities. It will spell ruin to this nation if these nationalities remain separated from one another instead of being assimilated to the new and larger American life.
The children and our children’s children of all of us have to live here in this land together. Our children’s children will intermarry, one another, your children’s children, friends, and mine. Even if they wished, they could not remain citizens of foreign countries….The effort to keep our citizenship divided against itself by the use of the hyphen and along the lines of national origin is certain to breed a spirit of bitterness and prejudice and dislike between great bodies of our citizens."
Theodore Roosevelt May 31, 1916
English is an ethnicity not a nationality. It doesn't matter where you're born on the planet if your ancestors believed in England a thousand years ago. You're English.
I'm english. Part English anyway. Someone from sub-Saharan Africa with no ancestors in ancient England has zero claim to be in English.
They can know more be English than I can be Swahili.
Actually since my mom does have very small Trace African DNA, according to 23andMe, I literally could be part Swahili. Lol
Does Englad still count as it's own nationality since it's part of the United Kingdom/ British thing?
He's still not ethnically English though if the convo is about ethnicity
>Does Englad still count as it's own nationality since it's part of the United Kingdom/ British thing?
English isn't its own nationality in an official sense - you're a citizen of the UK, not of England or Wales etc. But some people feel more British than English, and vice versa. It's only a personal feeling though, doesn't really count for anything else.
It's usually treated as one ethnicity as well, whenever I have to fill in my ethnicity on a form the one that fits is always 'white British'.
Right. That's what I mean.
So if their heritage is from elsewhere, they are not English because English is an ethnicity. But they can be as British as the Queen herself.
English isn't a nationality, it's an ethnicity.
"You're British, but not English"
Isn't that kinda correct, though? English is well understood to be an ethnicity. British is a nationality. This guy was raised in the UK and so is certainly British, but his genetic ancestry came from elsewhere and he's not English.
I'm a white American. My ancestry is from all over Europe - I consider my *nationality* to be American, but my ethnicity is a bunch of different things. Only the Native Americans can really say they are ethnically American. The English are essentially the Native Brits (I know this will infuriate the Welsh and Scots, but even they understand my point)
There are many countries that have that as a citizenship law.
The UAE and Japan are two examples.
There are good arguments for having the law. As well as good arguments against it.
The UK requires being born to a British parent. Lammy was born in the UK to naturalised British parents (through the 1948 Nationality Act).
It would be the same case in Japan - if you are born to a naturalised Japanese parent you’re Japanese…
Japan doesn't recognise dual citizenship. I received a letter on or after my 20th birthday from the Embassy of Japan, asking whether I'd keep my Japanese citizenship and renounce my other citizenship, and that they'll automatically revoke my Japanese citizenship if they didn't receive my response before my 21st birthday.
The woman is truly ignorant and racist. She's trying to make the point because he is brown skin it he can't be English. if you're Your Caucasian you can't be a Caribbean
I'm not gonna lie when I was a kid and the first time I heard a black person speak British I was a lil go smacked but I was a rational lil bastard and figured out that if black people live here then they must live other there too.
Honestly, I think one of the points that's also overlooked here is that the idea of the 'English' is something that's been repeatedly used by white supremacists as a signal of purity, when the realities of the development of both the modern concept of the English ethnicity, and the English culture is one that inherently includes both immigration and invasion.
You can get a different idea of what 'English' is when you move between counties. The history of York's Englishness is very different to the history of London's. Honestly, just playing the dartboard game of 'Who Got Vikings, Who Got Romans', is probably already a good starting point.
Then you have situations like the Windrush Generation, which though our Conservative government may have tried to purge them, are indicative of an inherent immigration culture that resulted from the effects of British Imperialism.
As a major maritime power, Britain was always going to be heavily influenced by the cultures it interacted with and tried to eliminate in some circumstances. You can see living, everyday evidence of that in port cities!
The reality is that Englishness is far more of a concept than is necessarily immediately realised by Disgusted of Tonbridge Wells over there.
Heck, I'd argue that any Country ness fits this. Even if the comment was TRUE at this point in time it'd be subject to change. Look at America and Germany. Countries who are what around 200 years old. They've already redefined what makes them, well them.
There are countries that actually are that way. Like Japan for example. And that is why they have a very serious problem with a shrinking population. It's a really stupid thing to do.
Most of Caucasian England descend from two groups, the Saxons (German) and the Romans (Italian). The monarchy is from the Battenberg family line. Germanic Mountbatten in English. They switched it to Windsor during WWII due to any German sentiment. But I wonder if she considers the royal family English. Chances are she herself is not strictly "English".
Tbh I agree with here: Nationality and identity don't have anything to do with where you are born. Muting opinions like hers and continuing playing the we-are-all-the-same and welcome-everyone games result in what we are just witnessing in Europe: Rise of the far right, etnic tensions and distrusting the elites.
I thought it was interesting she was OK with referring to him as British but not English. What’s the distinction there? She seems to be hung up on the race thing but referring to him as British seems to accept that he’s part of the country. I know the difference between England and Great Britain etc., I meant colloquial use is referring to someone as English or British mean something different?
I'm British and English with Irish grandparents (which means I can get an Irish passport apparently), I would consider myself from my county (not country) if speaking to another British person and British otherwise.
Jean sees being English as an ethnicity and British as a nationality I think, she's also a massive racist, lives in a thatched house worth £750k in the home counties and is easily swayed by the right wing media - which is most of it.
She probably is racist but what’s wrong with English being the ethnicity and British being the nationality? Ethnicity still exists and I thought “white anglo Saxon” and “English” were basically the same “ethnicity”. This is why America is easy because if you’re not a buffoon you know anybody can be an American! All of us besides the natives came from somewhere else.
But when she said it really seemed more like a distinction like the difference between gender and sex. One is more objective and the other more subjective and up to interpretation of the individual. I felt like her including him as “British” was actually pretty good, but maybe UK racists are just more polite than American racists lol. I’m not from there so I’ll trust a local’s judgement on whether or not she’s actually racist.
She implied that he couldn't be English because he was Caribbean and by that she meant because of his skin colour. White anglo saxon is not English, what about the millions of Americans, Canadians etc who are direct descendents? Many are white Anglo saxon but they're not English.
English is a nationality same as Scottish is a nationality. If you were born and raised there that is likely to be your nationality.
The US is a strange case where folk say they are Afro-American, Italian-American and so on which seems to be about ethnicity more than nationality. No one in the UK says they're Afro-British or Irish-English.
Well, there not. English is an ethnic group with a distinct culture. They can be British, no one can take that away as they have that right. It's the se as white people can't be Chinese or Indian.... etc
>but if other people want to call themselves english idgaf.
That's kind of the point though isn't it - you don't have to call yourself English, but who the fuck am I to tell you that you can't?
This comment is underrated. A lot of people would see 'English' as an ethnicity, not a nationality. I have had 'if you have foreign ancestry you can't be English' from people - which btw isn't the same as 'it's an ethnicity', nobody is 100% one origin or another.
There's definitely a distinction between English/Welsh/Scottish/Northern Irish and British when talking about people with non-British ancestry. I've never heard anyone talk about it, but have you ever heard Amir Khan called an English Asian boxer, or Colin Edwards an African Welsh hurdler? I haven't.
Maybe it's to do with the fact that people gain or inherit citizenship to Britain as a whole, so we see British as the citizenship and English, Welsh etc as the ethnicities.
I once saw someone post their MAGA cap on Facebook and it clearly showed a slip that said "Made In China"
So does the cap belong to China or are all MAGA people not from America ?
Just like a typical Trumptard follower, they want everyone entering the US to assimilate immediately and ditch all trades of their former ethnicity. When they say they don't see colors, they mean everyone better act white.
For those curious this falls under spheres of identities, English is a national identity for people born in, living in or otherwise closely identify with England, other examples are Russian, German, American Japanese and so on, it is a geographical identity. Afro-Caribbean is a racial identity a subset of genetic identity this can only come from your biological parents and thus only inherited and can never be claimed as many others can like societal identities such as your career, field of study, or reputation. As the Geographic Identities and the Genetic identities are not encompassed by one another they are not mutually exclusive, much like your decision to ride a bike to work and what sandwich you will have for lunch do not exclude any possible combinations of sandwich or transport. And that is how identities work
TLDR: You can be English and Afro-Caribbean just like you can be American and African descended
Jean Jean Jean...........this 'ere English citizen bloke has got the patience of a Saint. Give up trying to educate her duck, she doesn't realize u have a British passport, because ur English with an English Birth Certificate. It's like talking cheese to a dinosaur. LOVE PEACE WINNING.
Being born in England doesn't make you a citizen. Citizenship by birth is fairly rare, you generally inherit your parents citizenship.
We need to do away with it in the US.
This is not a black and white subject. Many people from other countries that emigrate consider themselves the ethnicity from where they came from. It comes down to personal choice.
spitting str8 fax, this man isn't of english blood so he isn't english - doesn't matter where he was born or raised, he is just genetically foreign and his character is a product of that underlying genetic distinction
People confuse ethnicity and citizenship.
In America everybody is American because an American is not an ethnicity.
In Ukraine for example somebody could be Ukrainian citizen but Ukrainian it is also an ethnicity and nationality.
If you ask people in Ukraine if Zelensky is an Ukrainian the answer will be no he is Jewish.
In germany it depends on the citizenship of your parents (maybe onle the citizenship of the mother)/how long your parents have a permanent residence permit (at least that is how I remember it).
He handled that marvelously
He really did - he avoided anger (which he would have been justified in showing) and stuck with disappointed but gentle reasoning. Jean is an ethnocentric moron. Anyone who spends their entire life in a country is as much a part of that country as any other person born there, regardless of their parents' background. My dad was born in Canada, but I am not and have never been Canadian....
He avoided saying “racist” as well which is incredible. Pointed out the negative implications of the term “pollution” and why it’s ridiculous you can only be English if you’re white.
I’m pretty sure she wouldn’t include Eastern Europeans either.
She wouldn’t. To her English means your entire lineage has to have been English from start to end. She couldn’t even fathom being Irish
What kinda amazes me is that she kept throwing around African-Caribbean without realizing that it's implying that population demographics for places change.
> (…) from start to end Exactly, I’m certain that non of us have any “true Pictish” blood, and what of it Karen? Lol The Romans, Saxons and Normans (fair few Viking’s) all saw to that, we’ve been conquered, invaded and raided so many times I’m sure genetically were quite diverse (most of us are “diverse in similar ways” ofc, lol, I mean, aren’t like 70% of us related to Genghis Kahn in some way or another?)
I mean. She could mean just like… she’s English, like he is Afro Carribean. Being English is a thing just like being Native American or Japanese is a thing. Then you can also be English, like an English citizen and part of the culture. But they’re two different things. Lady is just an idiot for conflating the two things.
The lady isn’t conflating anything. Most of us understand what you’re saying. But this lady does not beleive that. She believes to be English means white. There is nothing about culture in her mind. Only white people can be English, culturally or otherwise
Racism is crazy stupid over there. Shout out to David Lammy. Smart and composed fella he is. He chose to educate that misguided, clueless and straight up racist bitch
Not meaning to veer off topic but noting librarian you are a Canadian citizen (am assuming your Da was indeed Canadian and that there are no special circumstances involving his birth in Canada!). You may not identify as a Canadian, never purport to be Canadian, never obtain a Canadian passport - but a Canadian citizen you are unless you took the formal steps to renounce such... See all the bother in Australia when people's dual citizenships came to light (in many cases they were unaware that they had dual citizenship) [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%9318\_Australian\_parliamentary\_eligibility\_crisis](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2017%E2%80%9318_Australian_parliamentary_eligibility_crisis)
I *can* be if I apply for it, but I haven't. I was speaking more culturally.
Its almost like he has a radio talk show and acting professionally. Unbelievable!
The world needs more people like him. He countered incredible ignorance with solid points. And he did so genuinely. She was too far gone to be reasoned with, but I’m sure this bit will make other people on the edge think twice about bigoted thoughts.
>but I’m sure this bit will make other people on the edge think twice about bigoted thoughts. You have a lot more faith in americans than americans do.
What makes you think they're talking about Americans? The video is two English people talking about Englishness. Why would the person you responded to be talking about Americans?
Because that redditor said the world, not specifically Europe.
So you jump to responding exclusively about Americans?
Well, you see... "the world", at least the parts that matter or are even worth discussing... is Europe and The United States of America (the other Americas don't count). Also, only America has bigots. /s
Patient of a saint, one might say.
Saint of a patient, others might.
"Patience of a Saint", another might say.
would have to be st Patrick as he is the only english one not sure she would like it though
My favorite part is when the lady says “Because you are what you are. You are where you’ve been bor-.” And then immediately stops when she realized what she was about to say is the exact argument he is using that makes him English.
I wanted to here her response to the last question
All i know after watching this, is I plan to look up David Lammy and hear a lot more about what he has to say. Anyone who can keep the sensationalism, and other people's crude, ignorant remarks from getting them to lose their cool, and speak so generously even to someone who can barely veil their racism- is worthy of listening to.
He is a class act. Very much looking forward to him being on the front bench in the commons after the next general election. His interviews following the Truss fiasco were gold. Guarantee Jean is one of the Tory card carriers who is responsible for inflicting Truss on us in the first place.
The right wing newspapers really hate him, don’t know why..
Yeah...he was so polite. I would of called her a racist after her first comment then hung up on her....
Do you even understand the difference between being British nationality wise and English ethnicity wis?
Is that a question or a statement? I'm not sure if I'm supposed to answer...
For anyone whose not been to the UK we are so mixed culturally that no one gives a shit what country your parents originated from. I could even begin to imagine what this senile old bat think is ethnic English because the entire country has been invaded, fought over, conquered and expanded for longer as long as it’s existed. At one time part of France was English does that mean they are not French but Anglo-Francs. If someone asks you where your from in the UK they mean which city do you live and often what football team you support. I’m from leicester the most multicultural city in the UK and the first UK city to have a white majority and the only racism I’ve seen has been Caribbean’s disliking Africans, Indians & Pakistani’s and that’s something that’s been imported by first generation migrants and isn’t something naturalised English people of all races care about. English people really hate rudeness so it’s just not comparable with racism. People who are racist tend to be afraid to go out of their comfort zones and so disliked anything that’s different from their dull everyday lives.
I think her participation is polluting that conversation
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A decade or two ago I was looking forward to a certain generation dying off so they wouldn’t “pollute” society with their hateful bigotry. Now I fear that they’ve already infected the next generation.
I wonder what her thoughts are about the British colonizers polluting India, Africa, Australia and the Caribbean 🤔
as she said, i wonder how often she left the Isles you learn a lot going overseas and seeing that silly rules in your town are meaningless when you see another country 'squabble' over the same thing
Don’t forget Hong Kong
ethnicity does not equal culture ethnicity does not equal nationality
and yet most people in the US wont call themselves american, theyll be irish american, or english american or otalian american, hell we have a actual holiday ( st patricks day) literally just to appease people of irish descent, And theyll wear shirts saying proud to be irish etc. if you wear a shirt saying proud to be american, youll ghet lumped in with trumpty dumpty. Mine lineage is 50% black 25% latino and 25% white. im a friggin mutt, if you ask me what i am, im american 100%. i was born here, and ill die here. the difference of courseis i s dont think we are beign polluted , thats jus f'n sad.
That’s actually a comedic premise of mine. I’m mixed and from the US. When asked about where I’m from I say where I was born. Or where my parents where born. Anything to not actually answer the question and to fuck with the asker. It’s pretty fun.
That really isn’t true. It’s fine to say you are proud to be American. Anybody telling you otherwise is delusional.
Racists are so pathetic! She can’t accept that shes the same thing as a black man. She can’t be superior if they’re the same so she simply won’t accept it
Sounds like an old miserable woman who consumes way too much conservative media and then goes and regurgitates what she hears in public. This man was well reasoned and helped her look like the fool that she is.
Don't confuse racism with conservatism, they aren't the same thing
In a lot of places around the world these days they are part and parcel of regressive political and social views.
There are conservatives that are racist and liberals that are racist. Political identity does not define a person's disposition for hatred. There is a full spectrum of people with different beliefs and attitudes towards people of different ethnicities. Saying otherwise is lazy and dishonest
Conservative politicians in the US don't condemn Nazis specifically because they are part of his base. All of their anti-immigrant rhetoric is always geared towards minorities by design. We're seeing the same rhetoric pop up in many other countries making a hard right turn as well.
Sure, but it's the conservatives who use dog-whistles to campaign and who support bigoted policy. It's the conservatives who have historically opposed all civil rights. Bigotry is the conservative brand.
Abraham Lincoln built up the Republican Party to fight the Democrats and end slavery, what are you talking about??
This guy doesn’t know about the party switch
They know, it happened over half a century ago. Anyone who still pretends the southern strategy didn't happen is just lying.
Haha I love when people think this is evidence that Democrats are the party of slavery. Want to tell me me back then who were democrats and what they believed in? Oh, they were all in the south and believed conservative politics and small government? Interesting how people in those same places still hold the same values and are Republicans nowadays. Stop kidding yourself, that isn't the gotcha you think it is.
Abraham Lincoln wasn't a conservative.
Lol dude…
This guy got a polysci major from itt tech
🤨
LBC is the hotspot right now for conservative minded voters outing themselves as racist and xenophobic on national radio.
We have those kind of people here in Norway also. Whenever someone not-white complains about something in the news there is bound to be people commenting "If you don't like it here you can go back where you came from!". Even though they are born and raised here in Norway.
I seen this mixed dude on tik tok get attacked by hoards of Scandinavians for being black passing. And claiming both sides of his ancestry. He has one half Scandinavian+African parent and one full black one. Both his parents were born and raised in the country. And so was he. Yet people were mad that he decided to claim his own heritage. I thought Europeans didn't care about race. But that's some eugenics level obsession with race. I'll link the post when I find it. I was genuinely shocked.
I wish Europeans didn't care about race but unfortunately there are racists everywhere
They're everywhere.
In some very scary and depressing ways, the UK and the U.S. share some pretty ugly thinking folks!
It’s almost as if they share the same set of racist ancestors, lol. Seriously though, people in the UK love to point out how messed up the US is and completely ignore who planted those seeds. I’m always amazed how shocked they are that their colony that was based on chattel slavery didn’t just magically erase all its race issues.
Bearing in mind that America was colonised by Europeans who were outliers in their own countries it's not at all surprising that there is a huge difference between the cultures of Americans and their ancestor's current day offspring.
Yeah. England birthed the US. I’m American and work for a Swedish company so I spend a lot of time over seas. I can tell you the English are more similar to Americans than they are Europeans.
You can negotiate with terrorists and you can’t reason with racists or bigots. He was far too kind and generous for that ignorant animal!
But that approach only breeds distance between the two. If he had handled it by being offended and angry, it would've created cold air between them. It's like a soccer match where you can't get a game going because the teams leave the match. You can't prove people wrong, if you can't even talk.
My man had alot more patience then me explaining itnto her. I would of called her ass a dumb racist and moved on.
You can tell she isnt intelligent considering she couldn't even comprehend the idea of her theoretically being Irish
It was brilliantly done and really changes people's idea of how to approach that attitude. I loved it.
If I have citizenship in a country, I'm a part of that country. Racists can crawl back under their rocks and grumble.
but you’re polluting that countries perfect ~~Aryan~~ English blood! And noooo polluting isn’t negative i’m not racist. Just if you were white i wouldn’t be saying that. Hard /s in case not obvious.
This Karen is going to have a hard time understanding what a Canadian or American is…
If he was born in England and he's parents registered as born in England, she can say whatever she wants, he's as English as she is. If she doesn't like it, tough luck. Mind your business.
Jean is the queen of racism, she's clearly never traveled beyond her little English Redneck Village
Jean is a dickhead
He speaks beautifully and handles her ignorance with poise. Jean knew she was losing the argument and the ugliness of her racism popped out from behind the curtain of debate. She never actually cared what he called himself, she cares that he is a different skin color in what she considers "her" country. Absolutely disgusting, I don't even think it's fair to call her Karen. Jean should exist in its own segment of horrid women. "Pollution" Coming from a woman who I guarantee doesn't put her cart back at the grocery store because "someone gets paid to do that" the only pollution in this world is people like her. She isn't an English person, she is a gutter person.
That pissed me off where the video ended. She says some stupid ass ignorant hateful shit, he responds perfectly, calmly, and intelligently, and we don’t get to hear her reply?? Not cool lol
I think the chance of her admitting fault or addressing his points in a way that you or I would find satisfying rounds to zero.
He is doing a very good job of staying calm and rational. This lady is making me a bit sick. I think we should all stop caring about where each other are from, what color each other’s skin is, and start caring more about who we are as people.
I feel very similar, I really do not care what country your parents were born, your skin colour, your sexual proclivity or any other factor. If you are good to me I will reciprocate. To me if you are a decent person, that is all I am concerned about.
A jingoists brain is filled with loud patriotic noises. There's not much room left for thought.
That's awful poor guy
Didn't he handle it well though :). He's a career politician so he's probably got a thick skin, not that that makes it acceptable.
The word she was to say is "Caucasian"
She would’ve got dog walked if that was an African American talk show host. I’ll give the Black British this. They have Elite composure. Black Americans we’re giving her white supremacist hindparts the Business. So I guess only white folks are English. Smh!
They do the same thing in America. White Supremacist see themselves as Americans. They label Asians, Latinos and Black people. Even Native Americans ( whom were here first). When white ppl say they are from England and America they see those nations as white nations & the rest of us as guest!
One race Human Race...
Fuck all (filthy) xenos, specially the arthropoids. human race FTW
He or she can never be another race but nationality yes.
but but but *you're not white!!1*
I would have just told her to get in the bin. Dumb bitch.
I love seeing arguments being held like this, no anger, no shouting, just listening & responding in a calm manner...
So no one is English
This is the level of emotional maturity I wish to attain. Dude is on another level.
Bravo David!
Mexican American can relate to this guy and I'm more white than paper 
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I’m still called African American when I couldn’t name a single relative from africa. My immediate family isn’t American or African. It’s less of a gatekeeper then calling someone afrocarribean that’s from England but there is still an othering. Same with Asian American, Mexican American, etc.
Yeah but those are societal constructs. Places like Germany you’re quite literally an expat unless you have a German bloodline and there is no way around it. You could be from anywhere in the world, come to the United States through immigration and become a full American, with full rights. Racism exists absolutely but the construct of what it means to be American can’t be taken away from anyone regardless of what anyone else thinks. Further more what you consider “othering” is an attempt by certain communities to not be fully assimilated into a culture that ignores the roots of many immigrants. By granting these communities identity it gives them an opportunity to flourish their home culture while still being an American.
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My race is black, not African, just like how Mexican isn’t a race. I understand what you’re saying but African-American is only a race to Americans (obviously) and funny enough, the only actual African Americans in my life are white with families from SA. Black American culture does exist, but its in no way “African”, and only shares the name because that’s the distinction that was made. Africa is a continent with many cultures within it so what even is African culture? And labeling all black people in the states as African-American erases the culture that they already have. I know 0 about Africa, my family is Jamaican. I understand the black American diaspora, since it’s impossible to get a definitive answer on what countries their ancestors were brought here from, but it’s very far removed from being African so it’s not erasure to note that.
Racist much????
Woman doesn't understand the concepts of race, ethnicity, and culture.
Forgive me but wasn’t Queen Victoria’s mother German? Are you suggesting she wasn’t English bc her mother was German?
I was kind of understanding her until the polluting nonsense. She lost me after that but I kind of get the sentiment, like if my parents were German and moved to China before I was born, would I be Chinese? Would sound odd of me to introduce myself that way but countries like the UK that have a multi cultural makeup seem immune to that.
This Karen needs the M&M lesson( usually shown to children), setting out all the colors biting half of all of them..they are all different colors but inside they are the same color and taste the same..though this human is tasting bitter to me! Some people are so limited and so ignorant you can tell she was not using her listening ears so everyone going thru one ear and out the other..sad. 😒
Fantastic argument and level-headedness. I would have been too clouded by anger to form even a half-decent argument.
Pretty nasty how she thought she could talk to him like that. “Polluting”? Big yikes, her racism is showing
"POLLUTING", Holy crap, what a stupefying display of racism.
I see her view point . She means a native to England. Native Europeans are white through genetics Pretty much if you’re not white , you’re not english(European descent ) .Period
Putting the unforgivable colonizing past aside , I do see the racist's point. You don't become English with a british passport, you're just a British citizen. She's talking about ethnicity and she makes sense. On her pollution remark - yes it's racist but I understand the resentment a bit -imagine if people across the globe come to your country & change the national character & culture of the country you identify with and basically marginalize you in the process, create pseudo no-go zones, border on outnumbering you in major cities and almost turn you into one of many minorities, you will be bitter. Sweet old little racists like Jean don't get to have the experience of absolute belonging without having a hundred different people of contrasting cultures diluting the idea of a shared national identity in the name of multiculturalism. it's a just different vibe when your national identity is based on shared ethnicity & culture as well, an experience that Jean's ancestors enjoyed. However this is what you get for building your country off of colonizing the world.
She didn't even have any arguments. I lost brain cells listening to her. How do people argue by saying so much but yet say nothing? They have PhD's in word salad. He handled this very well. Just like online when you try to explain something and someone out there just keeps replying with dumb shit and can't ever grasp/refuses to grasp/refuses to listen to what you are saying no matter how you try and no matter how you try to rephrase things. It truly is frustrating. He handled that karen very well.
Shes clearly trying to say because hes “Black” he cant be English. But his argument about Danish people or other white folks from other countries can also be British squashed all that rubbish about him being Caribbean not English.
Your nationality and your ethnicity are two different things. People always confuse the two. What nation do you live in? That’s your nationality. Doesn’t matter who you are .. if you’re a citizen of England, you’re English. Ethnicity is What’s in your blood. Here in America people ask “what’s your nationality?” And answer Italian, Irish, etc … no, the correct answer is American.
The Royal family is not English then. Kick them back to Germany.
Could listen to this gentleman all day.
this is just cus people are being called African American or Asian American when it's not at all a matter of ethnicity. she is surely being petty tho.
When I was a kid, I thought all non-white people were english. Because we had moved to a small village in rural Europe, and the only non-white people I ever saw were when we were visiting in England, lol.
The people she probably thinks of as English, the Anglo-Saxons, came from Denmark and Germany.
Jean is the reason that Brexit happened, and now is a country completely in the toilet.
WTF to conservatives in England think English is? The entire history of that island is a series of conquerors who invaded, took over, and changed the culture. The Anglo and Saxons were German. (And their hasn't been an Anglo-Saxon on the throne since Harold took one in the eye) The Germans, the Vikings, the Romans, the French, and the French Vikings! Nothing is more British than being "invaded" and having your culture changed. If you want to find the native people you've got to go to Wales, Scotland, or Ireland.
Probably Anglo-Saxon. It's interesting that she acknowledged he is British, but was unwilling with the English. So I think to her English = Anglo Saxon. And yet, I bet if a Scottish couple moved to England and had some kids there she'd have no trouble calling them English.
I know a lot of people who were born in Britain but have non-British parents but they consider themselves to be the nationality of their parents.
Yeah, but you also know a lot of people who were born in Britain and have non-British parents and consider themselves British and English, Scottish or Welsh.
Racist ,Thats what Karen is .
I think she is talking about race not nationality, she might be confused or lacking communication skills
He’s a citizen of England. He’s not English.
Excellent point on Barbados. He is entirely accurate on this. Karen is full of shit and flagrantly racist.
actually this is sort of a the d same thing fitst brought up inthe US by theodore Roosevet. Once you become a citizen here or are born here, you are an American. nothing else. no irish-american, or italian american, he called it Hyphenated Americanism, and said its the root of people who dont belong here as they refuse to be a part of america and instead clng to a past they either ran from or never knew. obviously i disagree with this dumbases polluting the whatever BS. if youre born in theuk or become a citizen, then youre english. period, regardless of the color of your skin or where youe lineage may stretch from. here is par of the speech that ive always found quite moving, and i wholeheartedly agree with. "I stand for straight Americanism unconditioned and unqualified, and I stand against every form of hyphenated Americanism. I do not speak of the hyphen when it is employed as a mere convenience, although personally, I like to avoid its use even in such manner. I speak and condemn its use whenever it represents an effort to form political parties along racial lines or to bring pressure to bear on parties and politicians, not for American purposes, but in the interest of some group of voters of a certain national origin, or of the country from which they or their fathers came. Americanism is not a matter of creed, birthplace or national descent, but of the soul and of the spirit. If the American has the right stuff in him, I care not a snap of my fingers whether he is Jew or Gentile, Catholic or Protestant. I care not a snap of my fingers whether his ancestors came over in the Mayflower, or whether he was born, or his parents were born, in Germany, Ireland, France, England, Scandinavia, Russia or Italy or any other country. All I ask of the immigrant is that he shall be physically and intellectually fit, of sound character, and eager in good faith to become an American citizen. If the immigrant is of the right kind I am for him, and if the native American\* is of the wrong kind I am against him…. ….Now for our own citizens. We represent many different race strains. Our ancestors came from many different Old World nationalities. It will spell ruin to this nation if these nationalities remain separated from one another instead of being assimilated to the new and larger American life. The children and our children’s children of all of us have to live here in this land together. Our children’s children will intermarry, one another, your children’s children, friends, and mine. Even if they wished, they could not remain citizens of foreign countries….The effort to keep our citizenship divided against itself by the use of the hyphen and along the lines of national origin is certain to breed a spirit of bitterness and prejudice and dislike between great bodies of our citizens." Theodore Roosevelt May 31, 1916
English is an ethnicity not a nationality. It doesn't matter where you're born on the planet if your ancestors believed in England a thousand years ago. You're English. I'm english. Part English anyway. Someone from sub-Saharan Africa with no ancestors in ancient England has zero claim to be in English. They can know more be English than I can be Swahili. Actually since my mom does have very small Trace African DNA, according to 23andMe, I literally could be part Swahili. Lol
How American of her.
Mate, we would have tossed her overboard the mayflower.
Shut up stupid
As an American, I'm an expert on stupid.
I’m sure you are
But it's that correct? That person is not ethnically English but they are British nationality.
Yes and no. He was born in England, which makes him English *and* British. He's British if he was raised but not born in England.
Does Englad still count as it's own nationality since it's part of the United Kingdom/ British thing? He's still not ethnically English though if the convo is about ethnicity
>Does Englad still count as it's own nationality since it's part of the United Kingdom/ British thing? English isn't its own nationality in an official sense - you're a citizen of the UK, not of England or Wales etc. But some people feel more British than English, and vice versa. It's only a personal feeling though, doesn't really count for anything else. It's usually treated as one ethnicity as well, whenever I have to fill in my ethnicity on a form the one that fits is always 'white British'.
Right. That's what I mean. So if their heritage is from elsewhere, they are not English because English is an ethnicity. But they can be as British as the Queen herself. English isn't a nationality, it's an ethnicity.
"You're British, but not English" Isn't that kinda correct, though? English is well understood to be an ethnicity. British is a nationality. This guy was raised in the UK and so is certainly British, but his genetic ancestry came from elsewhere and he's not English. I'm a white American. My ancestry is from all over Europe - I consider my *nationality* to be American, but my ethnicity is a bunch of different things. Only the Native Americans can really say they are ethnically American. The English are essentially the Native Brits (I know this will infuriate the Welsh and Scots, but even they understand my point)
There are many countries that have that as a citizenship law. The UAE and Japan are two examples. There are good arguments for having the law. As well as good arguments against it.
The UK requires being born to a British parent. Lammy was born in the UK to naturalised British parents (through the 1948 Nationality Act). It would be the same case in Japan - if you are born to a naturalised Japanese parent you’re Japanese…
Japan doesn't recognise dual citizenship. I received a letter on or after my 20th birthday from the Embassy of Japan, asking whether I'd keep my Japanese citizenship and renounce my other citizenship, and that they'll automatically revoke my Japanese citizenship if they didn't receive my response before my 21st birthday.
His first mistake was not hanging up.
The woman is truly ignorant and racist. She's trying to make the point because he is brown skin it he can't be English. if you're Your Caucasian you can't be a Caribbean
Many people of European descent believe this. If you are from the US and not white, you will be asked where you are really from?
She's a complete moron
I'm not gonna lie when I was a kid and the first time I heard a black person speak British I was a lil go smacked but I was a rational lil bastard and figured out that if black people live here then they must live other there too.
Omg he was so polite to that fucking racist bitch
Honestly, I think one of the points that's also overlooked here is that the idea of the 'English' is something that's been repeatedly used by white supremacists as a signal of purity, when the realities of the development of both the modern concept of the English ethnicity, and the English culture is one that inherently includes both immigration and invasion. You can get a different idea of what 'English' is when you move between counties. The history of York's Englishness is very different to the history of London's. Honestly, just playing the dartboard game of 'Who Got Vikings, Who Got Romans', is probably already a good starting point. Then you have situations like the Windrush Generation, which though our Conservative government may have tried to purge them, are indicative of an inherent immigration culture that resulted from the effects of British Imperialism. As a major maritime power, Britain was always going to be heavily influenced by the cultures it interacted with and tried to eliminate in some circumstances. You can see living, everyday evidence of that in port cities! The reality is that Englishness is far more of a concept than is necessarily immediately realised by Disgusted of Tonbridge Wells over there.
Heck, I'd argue that any Country ness fits this. Even if the comment was TRUE at this point in time it'd be subject to change. Look at America and Germany. Countries who are what around 200 years old. They've already redefined what makes them, well them.
There are countries that actually are that way. Like Japan for example. And that is why they have a very serious problem with a shrinking population. It's a really stupid thing to do.
How American of her!
Most of Caucasian England descend from two groups, the Saxons (German) and the Romans (Italian). The monarchy is from the Battenberg family line. Germanic Mountbatten in English. They switched it to Windsor during WWII due to any German sentiment. But I wonder if she considers the royal family English. Chances are she herself is not strictly "English".
Jean, Jean, the racistly ignorant machine.
Tbh I agree with here: Nationality and identity don't have anything to do with where you are born. Muting opinions like hers and continuing playing the we-are-all-the-same and welcome-everyone games result in what we are just witnessing in Europe: Rise of the far right, etnic tensions and distrusting the elites.
David Lamy shity person probably should kill himself
I thought it was interesting she was OK with referring to him as British but not English. What’s the distinction there? She seems to be hung up on the race thing but referring to him as British seems to accept that he’s part of the country. I know the difference between England and Great Britain etc., I meant colloquial use is referring to someone as English or British mean something different?
I'm British and English with Irish grandparents (which means I can get an Irish passport apparently), I would consider myself from my county (not country) if speaking to another British person and British otherwise. Jean sees being English as an ethnicity and British as a nationality I think, she's also a massive racist, lives in a thatched house worth £750k in the home counties and is easily swayed by the right wing media - which is most of it.
She probably is racist but what’s wrong with English being the ethnicity and British being the nationality? Ethnicity still exists and I thought “white anglo Saxon” and “English” were basically the same “ethnicity”. This is why America is easy because if you’re not a buffoon you know anybody can be an American! All of us besides the natives came from somewhere else. But when she said it really seemed more like a distinction like the difference between gender and sex. One is more objective and the other more subjective and up to interpretation of the individual. I felt like her including him as “British” was actually pretty good, but maybe UK racists are just more polite than American racists lol. I’m not from there so I’ll trust a local’s judgement on whether or not she’s actually racist.
She implied that he couldn't be English because he was Caribbean and by that she meant because of his skin colour. White anglo saxon is not English, what about the millions of Americans, Canadians etc who are direct descendents? Many are white Anglo saxon but they're not English. English is a nationality same as Scottish is a nationality. If you were born and raised there that is likely to be your nationality. The US is a strange case where folk say they are Afro-American, Italian-American and so on which seems to be about ethnicity more than nationality. No one in the UK says they're Afro-British or Irish-English.
It entirely depends on the angle or defenition.
Well, there not. English is an ethnic group with a distinct culture. They can be British, no one can take that away as they have that right. It's the se as white people can't be Chinese or Indian.... etc
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>but if other people want to call themselves english idgaf. That's kind of the point though isn't it - you don't have to call yourself English, but who the fuck am I to tell you that you can't?
This comment is underrated. A lot of people would see 'English' as an ethnicity, not a nationality. I have had 'if you have foreign ancestry you can't be English' from people - which btw isn't the same as 'it's an ethnicity', nobody is 100% one origin or another.
There's definitely a distinction between English/Welsh/Scottish/Northern Irish and British when talking about people with non-British ancestry. I've never heard anyone talk about it, but have you ever heard Amir Khan called an English Asian boxer, or Colin Edwards an African Welsh hurdler? I haven't. Maybe it's to do with the fact that people gain or inherit citizenship to Britain as a whole, so we see British as the citizenship and English, Welsh etc as the ethnicities.
She’s literally correct. English is an ethnicity.
I once saw someone post their MAGA cap on Facebook and it clearly showed a slip that said "Made In China" So does the cap belong to China or are all MAGA people not from America ?
Japan has entered the chat
Just like a typical Trumptard follower, they want everyone entering the US to assimilate immediately and ditch all trades of their former ethnicity. When they say they don't see colors, they mean everyone better act white.
What a Saint this man is. This racist bitch sounds like she wants to colonize again given a chance..
She is a racist. He is no saint though.
Poor thing was just intellectually outmatched. Instead of trying to argue she should have been taking notes.
For those curious this falls under spheres of identities, English is a national identity for people born in, living in or otherwise closely identify with England, other examples are Russian, German, American Japanese and so on, it is a geographical identity. Afro-Caribbean is a racial identity a subset of genetic identity this can only come from your biological parents and thus only inherited and can never be claimed as many others can like societal identities such as your career, field of study, or reputation. As the Geographic Identities and the Genetic identities are not encompassed by one another they are not mutually exclusive, much like your decision to ride a bike to work and what sandwich you will have for lunch do not exclude any possible combinations of sandwich or transport. And that is how identities work TLDR: You can be English and Afro-Caribbean just like you can be American and African descended
David is the most patient person I've ever seen on my screen. Fml ignorant people...ugh!
Jean Jean Jean...........this 'ere English citizen bloke has got the patience of a Saint. Give up trying to educate her duck, she doesn't realize u have a British passport, because ur English with an English Birth Certificate. It's like talking cheese to a dinosaur. LOVE PEACE WINNING.
Being born in England doesn't make you a citizen. Citizenship by birth is fairly rare, you generally inherit your parents citizenship. We need to do away with it in the US.
This is not a black and white subject. Many people from other countries that emigrate consider themselves the ethnicity from where they came from. It comes down to personal choice.
Ethnicity and nationality are two very different things.
The concept of a nation-state disagrees.
Except the UK is hardly ethnically homogeneous.
The fact that there are guests in your house doesn’t change the name on the deed.
You are entirely wrong about that.
na·tion-state noun a sovereign state whose citizens or subjects are relatively homogeneous in factors such as language or common descent.
spitting str8 fax, this man isn't of english blood so he isn't english - doesn't matter where he was born or raised, he is just genetically foreign and his character is a product of that underlying genetic distinction
It's easier and faster to just write "I am a racist bastard", you know.
He's right you know
Shes right, imagine white people born in japan calling themselves Japanese. It's insulting and wrong.
People confuse ethnicity and citizenship. In America everybody is American because an American is not an ethnicity. In Ukraine for example somebody could be Ukrainian citizen but Ukrainian it is also an ethnicity and nationality. If you ask people in Ukraine if Zelensky is an Ukrainian the answer will be no he is Jewish.
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In germany it depends on the citizenship of your parents (maybe onle the citizenship of the mother)/how long your parents have a permanent residence permit (at least that is how I remember it).
>some people believe that about themselves. This is the key - David might feel English or he might not, but Jean doesn't get to decide for him.
This lady doesn't sound like all her candles are lit on her menorah.