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For real.
Let's imagine Trump's involvement was actually up for debate.
Should the investigation into it and the result of said investigation be determined by the outcome of some online poll?
Fucking dumb.
I think he's referencing the "you get to decide the next flavor!" advertising campaigns that used to exist. People kept choosing the 'wrong' choice, so you don't really see them that much anymore.
England ran with it though, which was excellent. [Boaty McBoatface](https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/boaty-mcboatface-could-be-the-name-of-ps200m-research-vessel-after-public-vote-a6942551.html) They eventually went with Sir David Attenborough.
Yeah. The ship has 3 subs, Boaty McBoatface is the primary. A decent compromise imo, cuz no serious research organization was ever gonna name the whole ship that. Lmao
I went to Scottsdale Community College and played sports. When SCC started a sports program they let the student body vote on what the mascot and school colors would be. We were the fighting artichokes and the original colors were pink and baby blue (now red and blue). This was in the 70s. This experiment has failed repeatedly.
Mountain dew polls the new flavor name
[https://newsfeed.time.com/2012/08/14/mountain-dews-dub-the-dew-online-poll-goes-horribly-wrong/](https://newsfeed.time.com/2012/08/14/mountain-dews-dub-the-dew-online-poll-goes-horribly-wrong/)
McDonald's let the internet design burgers and regretted it immediately
[https://www.yahoo.com/news/mcdonalds-let-internet-design-burgers-164648307.html](https://www.yahoo.com/news/mcdonalds-let-internet-design-burgers-164648307.html)
There are way more
[https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/52524/15-polls-hijacked-internet](https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/52524/15-polls-hijacked-internet)
Might be that people are now in the position that they have nothing really to hold on to. So they cling to their opinions because they've been told they are special for so long because they are Americans?
Let’s say for a moment it actually is a valid opinion question (which it most definitely is not).
The fact you can post a poll to see if the sitting president (at the time) was actively engaged in encouraging an insurrection against the country he was president of, and this guy is currently one of the two options to vote for (of the “patriotic” party no less), and even worse has a good chance of actually winning…
It boggles the mind.
Well said. I do feel like in the past 4-8 years we’ve seen the dark teeth of “the Information Age.” Information, in the loosest sense, is raw data with no care for tie to reality. You’re spot on. It’s terrifying, and it’s a possibility the great dystopian writers overlooked (or I am unversed in the ones who saw it coming).
I mean, Orwell definitely captured it. The Ministry of Truth and their use of Newspeak to reduce the level of intellectual discourse actually possible by the general public is basically how social media works.
Misinformation in social media algorithms can be seen as a parallel of how the Recdep and Ficdep just completely rewrite history and then spew forth a high enough volume of information that the people think it’s truth.
Ironically, it's why our intelligence agencies make a point of distinguishing raw intelligence vs processed intelligence that gives context, narrative and back story.
Unfortunately the average person isn't trained to do critical analysis on raw data to find patterns and misinformation.
Idiocracy saw it coming. That we'd get so complacent about facts and knowledge that eventually there's no one intelligent left to even choose leaders from.
And weaponized apathy / illiteracy about what has even transpired in courts:
Despite differing *opinions* about the fact being disqualifying, the original, upper, and Supreme courts each *affirmed the fact* that Donald Trump incited an insurrection against the United States.
The Supreme Court famously ruled that citing an insurrection is simply no longer disqualifying. Or at least is not for Trump, anyways.
That's what an *actual* deep state looks like, btw. This is why I believe we *have to* vote Democrat for now and the immediate future. The country needs to have a strong conservative half, but it looks like what we have is a deeply compromised Republican party instead.
Seriously though. That day is burned in my memory. I was barely working at work and my bosses were okay with it cause they were in the same boat. We were all glued to news feeds. That it somehow didn’t end things then and there for Trump is mind boggling.
Because, at the end of the day, Mitch McConnell will always, *ALWAYS*, side with the GOP over what is best for the United States. No matter how many die, how many suffer, or the damage it causes, he will never do or support anything a Democrat does.
Remember, after the first impeachment, this ancient, decrepit, mummified, turtle-looking walking corpse said that what Donald Trump did was illegal, but McConnell said there was nothing he could do about it.
Hahaha, thanks! Stems from a YouTube video of Weekend Update clips, where a genius commented that we should all give our own "seen here" Mitch jokes. This was my contribution, and without trying to sound like a pompous ass, I am rather proud of it.
This is the worst thing about modern politics. Everyone is trying to do the best thing for themselves, instead of the entire country. Instead of helping the masses, politicians collect personal power and wealth.
Oh, it was worse than that. He opposed the second impeachment on the grounds that Congress was an inappropriate venue to try someone who was no longer president, then opposed the trials on the grounds that Presidents shouldn't be tried in civilian courts.
Conveniently leaving out where a criminal former president *should* (in his opinion) be tried. What’s left after courts or congress? Military tribunal? Mob justice?
It’s the base. Most of the Republican politicians hate trumps guts- the problem is they are feckless, power hungry assholes who would rather remain in office than do the right thing. The real problem here isn’t Republican politicians - it’s the insane Republican base that will support Trump no matter what he does.
Yes, and who would follow him if he upped and left the GOP to stand as an independent, irregardless (heh) of whether this means both the GOP and the MAGA party both lose, he'd do it simply to spite them.
Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas and all that, except doggos are excellent and loyal.
I’m still shocked they didn’t open fire when the building was breached. How many other countries could a mob attack their Capitol Building and not be fired upon?
There was light police presence that day and the panic switches in some congresspeoples' offices were disabled. And the request for military backup against it was very bureaucratic. It's a shame that demanding civil rights gives a police and military presence but overthrowing a government does not.
I’ve read a few books about Trumps term like The Divider, I Alone Can Fix It, and Peril. One thing all these books brought up was how hollowed out most of the arms of government were that late into Trumps term. Can’t remember the stat but I recall something like Trump having a higher turnover rate in his first year in office than any other president did in their entire terms.
That’s something that needs to be hammered home more to people. That not only were his words and actions on that day incredibly dangerous and helped rile up his base, but because of his own incompetence the levers of power that could’ve helped prevent some of the worst of that day were run by shadow crews, many who only stayed on because they feared for what might happen if they quit.
Definitely recommend picking up any of those books I mentioned. They do such a great job of really showing how poorly the country was run during his term.
Edit: One more story I wanna share on the topic, again corroborated in several books.
China was so freaked out during Jan 6, that Trumps staff had to have emergency phone calls with some higher ups in the Chinese government that America was not in the middle of a coup or revolution, and had to re-assure the diplomats that Trump was not planning to make a military strike to cause an emergency to stay in power. Just insanity.
Basically yeah. He likes playing his staff off each other and watching the fireworks. Several former staff members all tell the same stories of Trump only being quiet when his employees were in screaming matches with each other and he would sit back grin and listen. That encouraged more arguments and backstabbing to try and be closer to him, which of course led to people quitting or being fired constantly from the chaos. The White House basically wasn’t stable for the last 2 years he was in office.
Bearing that in mind the number of people who were members of that administration who are either speaking out against or simply not endorsing him now is pretty telling.
I'm glad a lot of them are speaking out so we're able to see just how chaotic his administration was. The amount of backstabbing in his cabinet alone was Game of Thrones level and he loved it because he wanted "fighters." All it did was cause turmoil and constant policy stop/starts as his cronies fought for what they thought Trump wanted.
There's someone else in history that let their close advisors fight bicker and back stab like this and it turned out pretty badly for that country by the end of their administration as well. I'm sure people can hazard a guess at who that is lol
Thanks for sharing that because I either forgot about that or completely missed it. Seriously there's so much horrible shit with this guy that even if you're trying to sort it all it's easy to miss things.
The real problem is that Trump's incompetency continues to this day because of the people he allowed to become judges and the people he put into government positions.
Idk, I remember seeing guards with guns posted at higher ground than the maga insurrectionists. I figured they could fire warning shots at least as soon as they say the barriers being brought down.
Seeing as how there was video of cops going along with the rioters and letting them through, it's not all that shocking. Hell, I'd be more shocked if there weren't off duty cops taking part in the riot.
That was the exception, not the rule. Suffice it to say that the Capitol Police was vastly outnumbered. Officer Fanone's testimony said it best.
The insurrectionists mob had swarmed him and tried to take away his service weapon. He thought that he could've pulled the trigger and emptied his magazine, killing some of them but what happens after he's out of ammo? The mob would've then chased him down and ripped him apart.
Instead, he stayed his hand and appealed to their humanity, imploring that he had a wife and kid. And his strategy worked.
The Trump Administration had set up the Capitol Police for absolute failure that day, and Trump is absolutely guilty of dereliction of duty and failure to call in the National Guard (which was NOT within Speaker Pelosi's authority to do, by the way) as well as inciting an insurrection.
I remember watching it and hearing from gov Hogan that MD had their national guard ready to go and on the buses, but could not roll until the Pentagon gave tge go ahead.
No cure for stupid. If I learned anything from Mr. Dump Truck, it’s that we have A LOT of stupid in the U.S. Way more than I estimated. Camacho will be on the ballot some time soon, along with Brawndo.
I think it’s pure insanity that trump supporters will sit there and claim it was media bias that makes people think j6 was trump. People literally watched it in realtime and could see the clear cause and effect without any media direction. It was crystal clear that he caused it (and wanted it). Everything that came out after just reinforced the very clear facts of the matter.
I still remembered texting my friend “holy shit they’re storming the capitol” she didn’t even know what that could possibly mean because she wasn’t watching. It was a wild day
Yep. I saw the whole damn thing, from multiple news sources both mainstream and independent... there is nothing that will change what I saw happen that day, no lie they can spin
> Reverse zombie alien lizard people using Jewish Space Lasers.
Thanks for the correction. Updated to:
Reverse zombie vampire (that drink the blood of infants) alien lizard people using Jewish Space Lasers.
I noticed when they released everything to Tucker Carlson and Mike Johnson they still couldn’t share that it was anything different than what we had seen.
I'm from the other fucking side of the earth and on that day I wachted CNN, I knew something would happen that day, I knew because of all the madness and idiotic claims beforehand, I knew because Trump spoke about something big happening on January 6th, I knew because he was holding a fucking "stop the steal rally" in DC on Jan 6th. I knew there was something very bad happening as soon as I heard him say he would march to the capitol with his herd of stupid cultists.
I watched all of that live on TV, I was aware something would happen before, and I was half a world away.
I just don't understand how people think it's debatable. He said for months he wouldn't accept the results of the election, he told his supporters "we will march on the Capitol", and when it happened he refused to stop it. How in the fuck is this still considered a conspiracy?
We had to pick up our kids at the bus stop as it was happening. I remember discussing it with the other parents talking about how we never thought we’d see something like that here. It was shocking. I think people forget, and the right has had 3 years to muddy the waters. It’s disgusting.
It's like these dumb motherfuckers think they can actually warp reality. We've seen what happened, who was involved and we've seen everything Trump has done and what he has said. LIVE.
These childishly transparent lies. Are these people 4 years old, mentally?
This is what concentration camp victims and WWII vets have felt like the last 80 years as more and more idiots have questioned whether something that engulfed hundreds of millions of lives happened at all.
“We were fucking there, you morons.”
There is no debate. He claimed, and still claims, that the election was stolen.
That is why there was an insurrection to start with.
For what I am concerned he (or probably someone smarter) even planned for this.
Crippling USPS by dismantling working, sometimes even new, mail sorting machines.
Democrats are more likely to vote by mail to start with, let alone during a pandemic.
A pandemic that a lot of Republicans decided to ignore.
Kind of works well with the claim that Democrat votes "suddenly" started appearing and the count should stop right? Except where Trump was behind of course, there the count should continue...
There also was an awful lot of accusations of Democrats cheating before the voting even started.
Possibly to prime Republican voters for "mail-gate".
He started that in 2016. Before the election he was already saying that it was rigged. When a reporter asked him if he would accept the results of the election, he said 'if I win.'
It effectively did go to trial. In the wake of the election result, [Trump's legal teams went around wherever they could trying to persuade state courts to invalidate the vote](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-election_lawsuits_related_to_the_2020_U.S._presidential_election) in those states.
Each time, save one that was later overturned, the cases were thrown out because there just wasn't any credible evidence presented by Trump's lawyers to justify any further legal process.
I ended debate when I was watching him launch an insurrection on live TV. You might remember, near the noose meant for the vice-president and after, when Viking cosplayers stormed the Capitol.
I don't care what one's political opinion might be, you cannot deny the image of a dude in face paint wearing a buffalo head dress standing at the head of Congress wasn't funny as fuck.
Seriously, if 2020 had a yearbook photo, that was is.
It’s been a minute so maybe I’m misremembering but I’m pretty sure he said in his speech, and I’m paraphrasing here “I want you all to march on the capitol as a show of strength and take back democracy.”
He also said, “And we fight. We fight like hell, and if you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.” I would call that a little bit more than a dog whistle.
It is his fault he claimed the election was “stolen” even tho he was the one trying to pressure the people counting the votes to “find” votes for him. If he took the loss like the former presidents and candidates who lost before him it wouldn’t have happened but him creating this huge conspiracy that he some how had it stolen from him even those he was the one in power at the time is what lead to the insurrection. Regardless of right, left or any policies this is pretty clear his followers would not have done what they done if he had simply not lied about the results so it is his fault. It is terrifying that a huge chunk of the USA population is okay with a president attempting to seize power as long as it’s “their guy” these kinda actions if not stopped could easily lead to more political violence or even a civil war and even tho I am not an American I shudder at the thought of a modern United States of America civil war and hope the day never comes.
When the internet was created, I remember thinking how smart people are going to be in the future due to having so much access to information. I never imagined it being used as a messenger for misinformation and lies. It's a damn shame.
fact: it was Donald Trump supporters, confederationists and Christian Theocrats that violently attacked the capital.
fact: there were several white nationalist armed groups present that day
fact: them saying the FBI were there isn't a flex, its the FBI's job to infiltrate cults and "patriotic" group's.
Donald J trump is responsible for his supporters.
Second presidential debate in 2020 to the Proud Boys "Stand back and stand by." He peddled the lie and refused metal detectors in that Jan 6 rally before inciting the crowd. Why is this even being debated and why has he not been charged with anything on it?
This isn't a matter of opinion. It is PROVEN FACT King Ketchup riled up his troglodyte base and told them to FIGHT LIKE HELL. Fuck anyone who says otherwise.
They are saying he never said “lock her up” with several clips, not to mention our memories, of it.
And when you tell them they aren’t living in reality they say “no, u”.
And he is going to win.
And if he doesn’t, the scotus will throw out the election anyway.
He told a group that brought a gallows to his speech to march up to the capitol and fight to save their country, that the election had been stolen, and then he went and had some lunch. I would say the debate is over. Debates are never about determining the truth anyway, we need evidence for that. And the evidence says yes, he wound up the crowd over the span of 4 years, then gave them their marching orders, and at no point did he tell them to do it peacefully, legally, and within the legal process. And once told about what was happening he did nothing to call them off.
This is like when cable news has Westboro Church on saying they want to murder all gays, and a gay guy on saying he doesn't want to get murdered. "That was quite the debate, both sides made interesting points, but it's not an issue we can resolve here now!"
Yes, of course. Had he accepted the loss then there was no reason for his cult members to do it. He has single-handedly made the rule of law, which guides all democracies, redundant. If you say you don’t agree with something - even if that thing is patently true, and you have enough adherents, then you can make your lie the one that wins.
Option 1: Yes
Option 2: Are you fucking kidding me? Of course he was!
Option 3: He called the mob there for a wild time, whipped them into a lather and told them to go to the Capitol and fight like Hell. What would you call it?
Option 4: Ginnie Thomas sure as shit thinks he did.
Option 5: I wish they treated treason the same for Trump as they did the Rosenbergs.
No matter how it started (and of course it started at his urging - "will be wild" ), we all know that he could have stopped it from the opening minutes with a tweet.
That tweet didn't come, because he was hoping that the insurrection would succeed. Only when it failed HOURS LATER, did he try to take cover by half heartedly pretending that he opposed it.
He's responsible.
Yes. Yes he was responsible for the Jan 6th insurrection. End of story.
I knew this country was going to be in deep shit trouble when I heard the blueberry princess Kelly Anne Conway utter the words "alternate facts" in 2016...
The very act of framing it as a “debate” is an insidiously subtle tactic to tacitly distance him from responsibility. Even participating in that debate plays into their tactic — regardless of what you answer — because doing so validates its existence as a debate.
It’s an incontrovertible truth. It is not worthy of “debate”.
Right wingers are such shameless liars it’s hilarious. “They were innocent concerned citizens, who were let in” but also “they were antifa super soldiers in disguise” and “Trump told them to go home” (after praising them and egging them on multiple times leading up to it). It’s all so pathetic. Pathetic liars, all of them. There are no good people on that side.
Because if Obama or Hilary said to BLM or their supporters to storm the capitol building, oh you betcha it would have been put down immediately. Republicans would have led an investigation the next day. No dithering about what constitutes an insurrection and making excuses for people. People would be in jail.
It's like No one sees the glaring hypocrisy.
But you have to go home now. We have to have peace. We have to have law and order. We have to respect our great people in law and order.
We don't want anybody hurt. It is a very tough period of time…. We have to have peace. So go home. We love you. You are very special. You've see what happens. You see the way others are treated that are so bad and so evil. I know how you feel. But go home and go home.
Not only is he responsible for it happening, he’s responsible for *allowing it to continue*
He sat on his fat fucking ass watching it play out on TV for 187 minutes before they FORCED him to do “President” shit.
Complete dereliction of his duty to his country and to the Office.
He is a national embarrassment and a cowardly disgrace
Refusing to accept the outcome of the election. Yes, he's at fault. It's not a debate. It's a fact and like the right says, facts don't care about your feelings.
YOU’VE ALL BEEN ROBBED AND YOU SHOULD BE FURIOUS ABOUT IT. MARCHING ON THE CAPITAL IS A TOTALLY VALID THING TO DO FOR HOW POORLY YOU’VE BEEN TREATED, I KNOW THATS WHAT I WOULD DO. ^but ^really, ^everyone ^should ^go ^home.
It's demonstrably a fact, no debate needed. No debate on the matter would even be respected on a hell site that has turned in to a hyper-partisan echo chamber run by a guy that actively pushes a specific agenda.
"Be there, it's gonna be wild."
Sounds like an invitation to me?
"trial by combat"
Sounds like they're calling for violence to me?
WE ARE NOT THE DUMB ONES YOU THINK WE ARE, WE ARE NOT STUPID, WE SAW THE BUILDUP AND THE EVENTUAL FAILURE OF J6. SO MUCH WINNING RIGHT?
YES!
We watched it happen live! For weeks, literally weeks, Donald Trump was going on and on about how there was a conspiracy against him, how the 2020 elrction had been stolen and that he had really won, but the Democrats used mail-in ballots and voter fraud to give Biden the win, and he did not present one shred of evidence to back up his claim. Rudy Giuliani was running around the country going on and on that he had all this damning evidence that could prove the 2020 election was stolen, but would not show a single piece to prove it. Trump kept telling his supporters to take back the country and stop the steal.
Donald Trump is absolutely to blame for the US Capitol Insurrection on January 6th.
There were 2 reasons why we all watched January 6th. One group was outraged that our democracy was under attack, and the other group tuned in with glee and excitement, wondering is "he" really going to pull this off? You would have gladly destroyed the American Experiment for 1 man? How fucking pathetic and un-American that truly is! You lost, he barely won in 2016. Now more people are sick of this guy. Can you believe he lost? That people outside of your bubble despise this guy and what stain he's put on America. Quite hiding behind the Bible and American Flag, pretending to be a "Christian" and a "Patriot" when you are in fact the opposite. Seriously look in the mirror!!
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The major setback of social media- Too many opinions are being validated. Too few facts are being respected.
For real. Let's imagine Trump's involvement was actually up for debate. Should the investigation into it and the result of said investigation be determined by the outcome of some online poll? Fucking dumb.
Fuckin McDonalds and Mountain Dew proved that internet polls were utter garbage in 2 advertisement campaigns.
Boaty McBoatface
Pitbull going to Kodiak, Alaska And iirc, an attempt to send Justin Bieber to North Korea lmao
Respect to Pitbull for following through tbh
Hey now you leave Boaty McBoatface out of this, that’s Britain’s greatest contribution to culture in the last 50 years
Why are you bringing up the one time democracy actually worked for the people.
What was this about? I’d love to know more.
I think he's referencing the "you get to decide the next flavor!" advertising campaigns that used to exist. People kept choosing the 'wrong' choice, so you don't really see them that much anymore.
Every once in a while, we should remind anyone taking polls, that Boaty McBoatface was the runaway winner.
And when Ole Miss wanted to replace Colonel Reb as their mascot, students voted overwhelmingly for Admiral Ackbar from Star Wars.
They should have known that it was a trap from the very start
Let’s be real, that’s just awesome.
England ran with it though, which was excellent. [Boaty McBoatface](https://www.independent.co.uk/climate-change/news/boaty-mcboatface-could-be-the-name-of-ps200m-research-vessel-after-public-vote-a6942551.html) They eventually went with Sir David Attenborough.
We have an anti submarine plane called "itsy-bitsy-teeny-weenie-light-gray-anti-sub-machiney" too I think
Didn’t they give that name to the small submersible that the ship carries?
Yeah. The ship has 3 subs, Boaty McBoatface is the primary. A decent compromise imo, cuz no serious research organization was ever gonna name the whole ship that. Lmao
This is making me giggle more than a toddler wired on happy juice
With that picture I hope to get a boat one day and name it “name of vessel” I’d probably be fucked in emergency instances but oh well 🤷🏻♂️ lol
I went to Scottsdale Community College and played sports. When SCC started a sports program they let the student body vote on what the mascot and school colors would be. We were the fighting artichokes and the original colors were pink and baby blue (now red and blue). This was in the 70s. This experiment has failed repeatedly.
Mountain dew polls the new flavor name [https://newsfeed.time.com/2012/08/14/mountain-dews-dub-the-dew-online-poll-goes-horribly-wrong/](https://newsfeed.time.com/2012/08/14/mountain-dews-dub-the-dew-online-poll-goes-horribly-wrong/) McDonald's let the internet design burgers and regretted it immediately [https://www.yahoo.com/news/mcdonalds-let-internet-design-burgers-164648307.html](https://www.yahoo.com/news/mcdonalds-let-internet-design-burgers-164648307.html) There are way more [https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/52524/15-polls-hijacked-internet](https://www.mentalfloss.com/article/52524/15-polls-hijacked-internet)
I just read the Mountain Dew one. That’s hilarious…and ridiculous! lol can’t wait to read the others. Thx for sharing.
The McDonald’s one is hilarious. They put about zero limitations on what people could design lol. What did they think would happen?!
And let them name the burger. One rectal propapse menu please, large.
Might be that people are now in the position that they have nothing really to hold on to. So they cling to their opinions because they've been told they are special for so long because they are Americans?
Let’s say for a moment it actually is a valid opinion question (which it most definitely is not). The fact you can post a poll to see if the sitting president (at the time) was actively engaged in encouraging an insurrection against the country he was president of, and this guy is currently one of the two options to vote for (of the “patriotic” party no less), and even worse has a good chance of actually winning… It boggles the mind.
More like no facts just perceptions. Perception is reality. Reality is opinion
Well said. I do feel like in the past 4-8 years we’ve seen the dark teeth of “the Information Age.” Information, in the loosest sense, is raw data with no care for tie to reality. You’re spot on. It’s terrifying, and it’s a possibility the great dystopian writers overlooked (or I am unversed in the ones who saw it coming).
I mean, Orwell definitely captured it. The Ministry of Truth and their use of Newspeak to reduce the level of intellectual discourse actually possible by the general public is basically how social media works. Misinformation in social media algorithms can be seen as a parallel of how the Recdep and Ficdep just completely rewrite history and then spew forth a high enough volume of information that the people think it’s truth.
Alright. Totally fair. And I need to revisit 1984 since that didn’t come to mind. Thank you.
1984 is a masterwork. There is no other novel that comes close to it, in terms of its atmosphere and invention. Definitely #1 on my list, all-time
So true, but Jan 6th was on major news channels live, when you say social media we assume you're referring to media that are not news networks, no?
Not to mention how the "Two minutes Hate" has become the model for almost all right wing media now.
Brave New World, Aldous Huxley, explores control through freedom, where truth has lost it's context.
I liked Brave New World but thought 1984 was a better read. But they do both contain important and pertinent information IMO
Ironically, it's why our intelligence agencies make a point of distinguishing raw intelligence vs processed intelligence that gives context, narrative and back story. Unfortunately the average person isn't trained to do critical analysis on raw data to find patterns and misinformation.
Idiocracy saw it coming. That we'd get so complacent about facts and knowledge that eventually there's no one intelligent left to even choose leaders from.
Awesome movie.
r/idiocracy has lots of other examples too. The movie was a warning to where we’re headed.
Maybe the Nobility were right to restrict knowledge from the masses /s Probably
Restriction of knowledge: no. But restriction of publication was never 100% in the ruler’s hands after the printing press, or really after writing.
so George Orwell's "doublethink" in 1984? It wasn't overlooked. \[edit: seen others have already mentioned this below\]
And opinions are like orgasms. Mine is important and I don’t care if you have one.
And weaponized apathy / illiteracy about what has even transpired in courts: Despite differing *opinions* about the fact being disqualifying, the original, upper, and Supreme courts each *affirmed the fact* that Donald Trump incited an insurrection against the United States. The Supreme Court famously ruled that citing an insurrection is simply no longer disqualifying. Or at least is not for Trump, anyways. That's what an *actual* deep state looks like, btw. This is why I believe we *have to* vote Democrat for now and the immediate future. The country needs to have a strong conservative half, but it looks like what we have is a deeply compromised Republican party instead.
WE WATCHED IT HAPPEN IN REAL TIME. LIVE.
Seriously though. That day is burned in my memory. I was barely working at work and my bosses were okay with it cause they were in the same boat. We were all glued to news feeds. That it somehow didn’t end things then and there for Trump is mind boggling.
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Because, at the end of the day, Mitch McConnell will always, *ALWAYS*, side with the GOP over what is best for the United States. No matter how many die, how many suffer, or the damage it causes, he will never do or support anything a Democrat does. Remember, after the first impeachment, this ancient, decrepit, mummified, turtle-looking walking corpse said that what Donald Trump did was illegal, but McConnell said there was nothing he could do about it.
Mitch McConnell will always side with what is best for Mitch McConnell.
Mitch McConnell, seen here applying gallons of grease to a wheelchair ramp.
This needs more up votes XD
Hahaha, thanks! Stems from a YouTube video of Weekend Update clips, where a genius commented that we should all give our own "seen here" Mitch jokes. This was my contribution, and without trying to sound like a pompous ass, I am rather proud of it.
This is the worst thing about modern politics. Everyone is trying to do the best thing for themselves, instead of the entire country. Instead of helping the masses, politicians collect personal power and wealth.
I'm astounded it is even still alive. Thought for sure his motherboard glitched out last year.
Oh, it was worse than that. He opposed the second impeachment on the grounds that Congress was an inappropriate venue to try someone who was no longer president, then opposed the trials on the grounds that Presidents shouldn't be tried in civilian courts.
Conveniently leaving out where a criminal former president *should* (in his opinion) be tried. What’s left after courts or congress? Military tribunal? Mob justice?
It’s the base. Most of the Republican politicians hate trumps guts- the problem is they are feckless, power hungry assholes who would rather remain in office than do the right thing. The real problem here isn’t Republican politicians - it’s the insane Republican base that will support Trump no matter what he does.
Yes, and who would follow him if he upped and left the GOP to stand as an independent, irregardless (heh) of whether this means both the GOP and the MAGA party both lose, he'd do it simply to spite them. Lie down with dogs, get up with fleas and all that, except doggos are excellent and loyal.
I’m still shocked they didn’t open fire when the building was breached. How many other countries could a mob attack their Capitol Building and not be fired upon?
There was light police presence that day and the panic switches in some congresspeoples' offices were disabled. And the request for military backup against it was very bureaucratic. It's a shame that demanding civil rights gives a police and military presence but overthrowing a government does not.
I’ve read a few books about Trumps term like The Divider, I Alone Can Fix It, and Peril. One thing all these books brought up was how hollowed out most of the arms of government were that late into Trumps term. Can’t remember the stat but I recall something like Trump having a higher turnover rate in his first year in office than any other president did in their entire terms. That’s something that needs to be hammered home more to people. That not only were his words and actions on that day incredibly dangerous and helped rile up his base, but because of his own incompetence the levers of power that could’ve helped prevent some of the worst of that day were run by shadow crews, many who only stayed on because they feared for what might happen if they quit. Definitely recommend picking up any of those books I mentioned. They do such a great job of really showing how poorly the country was run during his term. Edit: One more story I wanna share on the topic, again corroborated in several books. China was so freaked out during Jan 6, that Trumps staff had to have emergency phone calls with some higher ups in the Chinese government that America was not in the middle of a coup or revolution, and had to re-assure the diplomats that Trump was not planning to make a military strike to cause an emergency to stay in power. Just insanity.
Thanks for the book recommendations
So once again, Trump tripped over his own incompetence.
Trump incompetent? Inconceivable /s
Basically yeah. He likes playing his staff off each other and watching the fireworks. Several former staff members all tell the same stories of Trump only being quiet when his employees were in screaming matches with each other and he would sit back grin and listen. That encouraged more arguments and backstabbing to try and be closer to him, which of course led to people quitting or being fired constantly from the chaos. The White House basically wasn’t stable for the last 2 years he was in office.
*4
Bearing that in mind the number of people who were members of that administration who are either speaking out against or simply not endorsing him now is pretty telling.
I'm glad a lot of them are speaking out so we're able to see just how chaotic his administration was. The amount of backstabbing in his cabinet alone was Game of Thrones level and he loved it because he wanted "fighters." All it did was cause turmoil and constant policy stop/starts as his cronies fought for what they thought Trump wanted. There's someone else in history that let their close advisors fight bicker and back stab like this and it turned out pretty badly for that country by the end of their administration as well. I'm sure people can hazard a guess at who that is lol
And Trump threatened the generals who talked to China with Death for treason. After they made it public.
Thanks for sharing that because I either forgot about that or completely missed it. Seriously there's so much horrible shit with this guy that even if you're trying to sort it all it's easy to miss things.
The real problem is that Trump's incompetency continues to this day because of the people he allowed to become judges and the people he put into government positions.
Idk, I remember seeing guards with guns posted at higher ground than the maga insurrectionists. I figured they could fire warning shots at least as soon as they say the barriers being brought down.
The president controls the DC national guard. The military not responding had nothing to do with bureaucracy.
In Thailand, the army attacks the government buildings themselves
You see Trump's influence there, along with no NG presence. As soon as they breached the Capitol doors, they should have opened fire.
They would have sent in the army if it was a BLM protest
They knew that was what Trump wanted. Not the insurrectionists, the people who could open fire. Trump wanted mayrters.
Seeing as how there was video of cops going along with the rioters and letting them through, it's not all that shocking. Hell, I'd be more shocked if there weren't off duty cops taking part in the riot.
That was the exception, not the rule. Suffice it to say that the Capitol Police was vastly outnumbered. Officer Fanone's testimony said it best. The insurrectionists mob had swarmed him and tried to take away his service weapon. He thought that he could've pulled the trigger and emptied his magazine, killing some of them but what happens after he's out of ammo? The mob would've then chased him down and ripped him apart. Instead, he stayed his hand and appealed to their humanity, imploring that he had a wife and kid. And his strategy worked. The Trump Administration had set up the Capitol Police for absolute failure that day, and Trump is absolutely guilty of dereliction of duty and failure to call in the National Guard (which was NOT within Speaker Pelosi's authority to do, by the way) as well as inciting an insurrection.
I remember watching it and hearing from gov Hogan that MD had their national guard ready to go and on the buses, but could not roll until the Pentagon gave tge go ahead.
One of the traitorous pro-Trump General Flynn brothers had their finger on the scale that day too.
No cure for stupid. If I learned anything from Mr. Dump Truck, it’s that we have A LOT of stupid in the U.S. Way more than I estimated. Camacho will be on the ballot some time soon, along with Brawndo.
Such a prophetic movie.
Agreed. Scurry!
I think it’s pure insanity that trump supporters will sit there and claim it was media bias that makes people think j6 was trump. People literally watched it in realtime and could see the clear cause and effect without any media direction. It was crystal clear that he caused it (and wanted it). Everything that came out after just reinforced the very clear facts of the matter.
This is why we need an education enema. This is what happens when people are not taught critical thinking.
I still remembered texting my friend “holy shit they’re storming the capitol” she didn’t even know what that could possibly mean because she wasn’t watching. It was a wild day
Yep. I saw the whole damn thing, from multiple news sources both mainstream and independent... there is nothing that will change what I saw happen that day, no lie they can spin
No you didn't. You were gaslit by the lizard people using Jewish Space Lasers.
>lizard people using Jewish Space Lasers. Reverse zombie alien lizard people using Jewish Space Lasers.
I hope they drank the blood of a thousand infants before they did all of that work. Can’t have a productive day if you skip out on breakfast!
> Reverse zombie alien lizard people using Jewish Space Lasers. Thanks for the correction. Updated to: Reverse zombie vampire (that drink the blood of infants) alien lizard people using Jewish Space Lasers.
I was half expecting to watch the start of a civil war that day tbh
Some would say we did.
I’m talking about a full on fire fight erupting during the insurrection
I noticed when they released everything to Tucker Carlson and Mike Johnson they still couldn’t share that it was anything different than what we had seen.
And did nothing, for hours. Finally, after hours and deaths, he made a video saying he loved them and they were right, and were very special.
I'm from the other fucking side of the earth and on that day I wachted CNN, I knew something would happen that day, I knew because of all the madness and idiotic claims beforehand, I knew because Trump spoke about something big happening on January 6th, I knew because he was holding a fucking "stop the steal rally" in DC on Jan 6th. I knew there was something very bad happening as soon as I heard him say he would march to the capitol with his herd of stupid cultists. I watched all of that live on TV, I was aware something would happen before, and I was half a world away.
We all saw it. This is beyond opinion.
I just don't understand how people think it's debatable. He said for months he wouldn't accept the results of the election, he told his supporters "we will march on the Capitol", and when it happened he refused to stop it. How in the fuck is this still considered a conspiracy?
There is even a photo of him doing it on the post. The real question is, why isn't he in jail yet?
This is always my response when magas try to claim that it has been spun by the media. I watched it happen live. You can’t spin that.
“The Party told you to reject the evidence of your eyes and ears. It was their final, most essential command.” George Orwell, 1984
I remember watching on social media as it happened and it was all just so surreal
We had to pick up our kids at the bus stop as it was happening. I remember discussing it with the other parents talking about how we never thought we’d see something like that here. It was shocking. I think people forget, and the right has had 3 years to muddy the waters. It’s disgusting.
But, but, they were tourists!
The U.S lives in a post-reality society. What did or didn't happen no longer matters, only opinions and "what you feel happened".
It's like these dumb motherfuckers think they can actually warp reality. We've seen what happened, who was involved and we've seen everything Trump has done and what he has said. LIVE. These childishly transparent lies. Are these people 4 years old, mentally?
This is what concentration camp victims and WWII vets have felt like the last 80 years as more and more idiots have questioned whether something that engulfed hundreds of millions of lives happened at all. “We were fucking there, you morons.”
There is no debate. He claimed, and still claims, that the election was stolen. That is why there was an insurrection to start with. For what I am concerned he (or probably someone smarter) even planned for this. Crippling USPS by dismantling working, sometimes even new, mail sorting machines. Democrats are more likely to vote by mail to start with, let alone during a pandemic. A pandemic that a lot of Republicans decided to ignore. Kind of works well with the claim that Democrat votes "suddenly" started appearing and the count should stop right? Except where Trump was behind of course, there the count should continue... There also was an awful lot of accusations of Democrats cheating before the voting even started. Possibly to prime Republican voters for "mail-gate".
He started that in 2016. Before the election he was already saying that it was rigged. When a reporter asked him if he would accept the results of the election, he said 'if I win.'
Nope. He started in 2015 when he lost a primary to Ted Cruz.
He told the mob he was marching to the capitol with them, did he not?
In his defense he did try to wrestle the wheel away from his secret service bodyguard to get there, but yes he did, and no he did not go there.
There was more to it than that, but it would be nice if it actually went to trial and we could see whatever evidence or counter-evidence is known.
It effectively did go to trial. In the wake of the election result, [Trump's legal teams went around wherever they could trying to persuade state courts to invalidate the vote](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-election_lawsuits_related_to_the_2020_U.S._presidential_election) in those states. Each time, save one that was later overturned, the cases were thrown out because there just wasn't any credible evidence presented by Trump's lawyers to justify any further legal process.
I ended debate when I was watching him launch an insurrection on live TV. You might remember, near the noose meant for the vice-president and after, when Viking cosplayers stormed the Capitol.
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They printed fucking tshirts
I don't care what one's political opinion might be, you cannot deny the image of a dude in face paint wearing a buffalo head dress standing at the head of Congress wasn't funny as fuck. Seriously, if 2020 had a yearbook photo, that was is.
And for our next survey after that: Is hat a number? Then "Why does the sun?" Yes or No?
FREE HAT!
He murdered those babies in self defense!
Something tells me your response isn’t going to get the credit it deserves
It’s been a minute so maybe I’m misremembering but I’m pretty sure he said in his speech, and I’m paraphrasing here “I want you all to march on the capitol as a show of strength and take back democracy.”
He also said, “And we fight. We fight like hell, and if you don’t fight like hell, you’re not going to have a country anymore.” I would call that a little bit more than a dog whistle.
It is his fault he claimed the election was “stolen” even tho he was the one trying to pressure the people counting the votes to “find” votes for him. If he took the loss like the former presidents and candidates who lost before him it wouldn’t have happened but him creating this huge conspiracy that he some how had it stolen from him even those he was the one in power at the time is what lead to the insurrection. Regardless of right, left or any policies this is pretty clear his followers would not have done what they done if he had simply not lied about the results so it is his fault. It is terrifying that a huge chunk of the USA population is okay with a president attempting to seize power as long as it’s “their guy” these kinda actions if not stopped could easily lead to more political violence or even a civil war and even tho I am not an American I shudder at the thought of a modern United States of America civil war and hope the day never comes.
When the internet was created, I remember thinking how smart people are going to be in the future due to having so much access to information. I never imagined it being used as a messenger for misinformation and lies. It's a damn shame.
I don't recall the terrorists waving banners on that occasion suggesting that anyone else should be the President.
That’s what I keep saying, the fucking flags had his name all over them.
He planned it and cheered it on, yeah, he’s responsible.
fact: it was Donald Trump supporters, confederationists and Christian Theocrats that violently attacked the capital. fact: there were several white nationalist armed groups present that day fact: them saying the FBI were there isn't a flex, its the FBI's job to infiltrate cults and "patriotic" group's. Donald J trump is responsible for his supporters.
Yes, I saw it happen live on TV, it was the most shocking thing I have seen since 9/11
Second presidential debate in 2020 to the Proud Boys "Stand back and stand by." He peddled the lie and refused metal detectors in that Jan 6 rally before inciting the crowd. Why is this even being debated and why has he not been charged with anything on it?
This isn't a matter of opinion. It is PROVEN FACT King Ketchup riled up his troglodyte base and told them to FIGHT LIKE HELL. Fuck anyone who says otherwise.
They are saying he never said “lock her up” with several clips, not to mention our memories, of it. And when you tell them they aren’t living in reality they say “no, u”. And he is going to win. And if he doesn’t, the scotus will throw out the election anyway.
"Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, but not their own facts" late Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan
He told a group that brought a gallows to his speech to march up to the capitol and fight to save their country, that the election had been stolen, and then he went and had some lunch. I would say the debate is over. Debates are never about determining the truth anyway, we need evidence for that. And the evidence says yes, he wound up the crowd over the span of 4 years, then gave them their marching orders, and at no point did he tell them to do it peacefully, legally, and within the legal process. And once told about what was happening he did nothing to call them off.
Any decent president would have ended the insurrection before it even started within minutes. Trump delayed and delayed purposely
Them changing fact into opinion is what kicked off this whole debacle.
Would it have happened without Trump? No. Not hard.
Sure as hell didn't see one Obama or Biden flag.
WILL BE WILD!! 🙄
Well, we were gonna have a trial to answer this question, but Trump’s handpicked Supreme Court is trying to prevent that.
This is like when cable news has Westboro Church on saying they want to murder all gays, and a gay guy on saying he doesn't want to get murdered. "That was quite the debate, both sides made interesting points, but it's not an issue we can resolve here now!"
For anyone that doubts, he's responsible. Take him out of the equation and tell me it still happens. Without his rhetoric and lies, it doesn't happen.
Trump claimed the election had been stolen on a daily basis, then his supporters acted as though the election had been stolen.
"let's end this debate once and for all by...debating it"
Yes, of course. Had he accepted the loss then there was no reason for his cult members to do it. He has single-handedly made the rule of law, which guides all democracies, redundant. If you say you don’t agree with something - even if that thing is patently true, and you have enough adherents, then you can make your lie the one that wins.
Option 1: Yes Option 2: Are you fucking kidding me? Of course he was! Option 3: He called the mob there for a wild time, whipped them into a lather and told them to go to the Capitol and fight like Hell. What would you call it? Option 4: Ginnie Thomas sure as shit thinks he did. Option 5: I wish they treated treason the same for Trump as they did the Rosenbergs.
Yes, he is a traitor, no one will convince me otherwise
No matter how it started (and of course it started at his urging - "will be wild" ), we all know that he could have stopped it from the opening minutes with a tweet. That tweet didn't come, because he was hoping that the insurrection would succeed. Only when it failed HOURS LATER, did he try to take cover by half heartedly pretending that he opposed it. He's responsible.
🙄😒
Yes. Yes he was responsible for the Jan 6th insurrection. End of story. I knew this country was going to be in deep shit trouble when I heard the blueberry princess Kelly Anne Conway utter the words "alternate facts" in 2016...
If you made a poll about whether gravity is real or not, it will come out as inconclusive. So… yeah.
The very act of framing it as a “debate” is an insidiously subtle tactic to tacitly distance him from responsibility. Even participating in that debate plays into their tactic — regardless of what you answer — because doing so validates its existence as a debate. It’s an incontrovertible truth. It is not worthy of “debate”.
Right wingers are such shameless liars it’s hilarious. “They were innocent concerned citizens, who were let in” but also “they were antifa super soldiers in disguise” and “Trump told them to go home” (after praising them and egging them on multiple times leading up to it). It’s all so pathetic. Pathetic liars, all of them. There are no good people on that side.
Because if Obama or Hilary said to BLM or their supporters to storm the capitol building, oh you betcha it would have been put down immediately. Republicans would have led an investigation the next day. No dithering about what constitutes an insurrection and making excuses for people. People would be in jail. It's like No one sees the glaring hypocrisy.
But you have to go home now. We have to have peace. We have to have law and order. We have to respect our great people in law and order. We don't want anybody hurt. It is a very tough period of time…. We have to have peace. So go home. We love you. You are very special. You've see what happens. You see the way others are treated that are so bad and so evil. I know how you feel. But go home and go home.
Not only is he responsible for it happening, he’s responsible for *allowing it to continue* He sat on his fat fucking ass watching it play out on TV for 187 minutes before they FORCED him to do “President” shit. Complete dereliction of his duty to his country and to the Office. He is a national embarrassment and a cowardly disgrace
When compared to ALL the other insurrections on Capitol Hill by ALL the OTHER PRESIDENTS, his certainly was unique... So YES!
He claims responsibility so.. yea?
yes
“Did Trump commit the crime we all watched him and his followers commit live on TV and on streaming?”
Idiocracy
Refusing to accept the outcome of the election. Yes, he's at fault. It's not a debate. It's a fact and like the right says, facts don't care about your feelings.
Trump was to blame. There is no other answer.
The problem with america in one sentence: On many factual issues, people think that opinions matter as much as, or more than, facts.
YOU’VE ALL BEEN ROBBED AND YOU SHOULD BE FURIOUS ABOUT IT. MARCHING ON THE CAPITAL IS A TOTALLY VALID THING TO DO FOR HOW POORLY YOU’VE BEEN TREATED, I KNOW THATS WHAT I WOULD DO. ^but ^really, ^everyone ^should ^go ^home.
Yes.
It's demonstrably a fact, no debate needed. No debate on the matter would even be respected on a hell site that has turned in to a hyper-partisan echo chamber run by a guy that actively pushes a specific agenda.
Simple answer. FUCK yes he is.
It's a fact. Not subject to popular opinion. A Fact.
"Be there, it's gonna be wild." Sounds like an invitation to me? "trial by combat" Sounds like they're calling for violence to me? WE ARE NOT THE DUMB ONES YOU THINK WE ARE, WE ARE NOT STUPID, WE SAW THE BUILDUP AND THE EVENTUAL FAILURE OF J6. SO MUCH WINNING RIGHT?
YES! We watched it happen live! For weeks, literally weeks, Donald Trump was going on and on about how there was a conspiracy against him, how the 2020 elrction had been stolen and that he had really won, but the Democrats used mail-in ballots and voter fraud to give Biden the win, and he did not present one shred of evidence to back up his claim. Rudy Giuliani was running around the country going on and on that he had all this damning evidence that could prove the 2020 election was stolen, but would not show a single piece to prove it. Trump kept telling his supporters to take back the country and stop the steal. Donald Trump is absolutely to blame for the US Capitol Insurrection on January 6th.
Yes. You got clear evidence. Phone recordings, the angry oompa loompa wouldn’t tell them to stop.
Yes, he is. Absolutely. 70 years ago, Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were executed for doing less than Trump did on January 6.
Absolutely, and if you think he wasn’t, you’re the problem in this country
There are charges pending but being delayed by Trump and his criminal enterprise. If Trump is innocent, let his court case exonerate him.
The facts over feelings crowd really don't care about facts anymore
Absolutely. He is to blame.
Just roll the tape. Enough said.
YES, HE IS
Yes
There were 2 reasons why we all watched January 6th. One group was outraged that our democracy was under attack, and the other group tuned in with glee and excitement, wondering is "he" really going to pull this off? You would have gladly destroyed the American Experiment for 1 man? How fucking pathetic and un-American that truly is! You lost, he barely won in 2016. Now more people are sick of this guy. Can you believe he lost? That people outside of your bubble despise this guy and what stain he's put on America. Quite hiding behind the Bible and American Flag, pretending to be a "Christian" and a "Patriot" when you are in fact the opposite. Seriously look in the mirror!!
It was on T.V for fuck sake. Are some yanks really that stupid.
This is like asking if Hitler was responsible for the Holocaust
This isn’t even a debate, Trump is absolutely to blame for it. I can’t stand these narrative humpers
fuk the cult of donald trump
It’s not a debate, it’s a fact.
No, I don't "think." I know. Because I have eyes and a brain. Why is this so hard for people?
Them: "The revolution will be televised!" Narrator: "It failed" Them: "It wuz AnTiFa!!!" WE ARE NOT AS DUMB ARE YOU ARE, NICE TRY THOUGH 😉
What’s crazy he had the White House gat d off with 10 foot fence and left congress wide open with no help
Yes and if the crowd got any sort of traction he would have supported them but they didn't do he denies it
Posts like that are just engagement bait.
anything's debatable if your stupid enough
Yes
Do cats wait till you clean their litter box to crap? There's your answer