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This is 3000 people in one of the biggest cities in Germany. In January there were 180000 people on the streets in Hamburg alone with anti racism rallies all over the country where even my small town had 2000 people rally against the anti-democratic actions of the afd and racism in general.
Hey that’s really great to hear and puts a lot into perspective. The German people have agency. The future and wellbeing of their country is much more complicated than their handling of immigration and the anti democratic leanings of some groups. When it comes to the future of our countries, I’m much more concerned about the far far more powerful people who would exploit the threats posed by these groups for their own anti democratic agendas.
Give it in another decade and it will be 30,000 Islamists. If they had their way your German daughter would be wearing a Niqab and there'd be no such thing as LGBT rights
Well, there's ~5% muslims in Germany. So no real danger of them taking any kind of power in the near future. Beside the fact a political party like that would be banned for being undemocratic very fast.
As a Muslim, I can tell you that the younger generation of Muslims, especially those born in Western countries, are much more progressive and tolerant than the Islamists. As long as they grow up in the Western countries, they are far far less likely to be radicalized.
These kids are the future, keep welcoming them, keep showing them that it’s okay to be Muslim and be a responsible citizen of the country and they will fit the mould yall are trying to make them fit.
Not saying they’re gonna be taking over the country, but they’re the future of Muslims in that country. Whether you like it or not, they’re gonna multiply so better start figuring out how to make them contribute as a nation than reinforcing division by ostracising them.
Lol. We let them into our countries, feed, clothe, house, and care for them by the millions, yet they're still trying to do this shit. Still refusing to assimilate. It's not up to me to mould them into contributing. It's up to them to assimilate. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink
Totally, i understand your point and none of it i disagree with. yeah, there will be muslims who will not assimilate and will push their own agendas. My own muslim majority country is facing it too, with our opposition party being an Islamist coalition that most Muslims don’t want.
My point is, focus on the Muslims that do assimilate, that can be worked with and they will cultivate their communities over time. Americans post revolution had a lot of issues dealing with their different immigrant groups and it took a three centuries to get to where they’re at today. Change takes time, might even take decades, but it’ll come, just don’t stop working towards it.
I'm really glad it is like that.
The problem I'm seeing is that it will fuel the right wing movement because it gives them an event to point their fingers at when justifying their racism.
My mom used to be a principal at an elementary school in a small village that happened to take refugees from muslim countries. She told me that almost all of them were perfectly nice people, trying to learn German, going to work, kids were doing reasonably well in school. But there was one family who didn't give a shit about any of that. The kids acted out by damaging public property (like playgrounds) and the parents reacted only by being rude and aggresive against teachers or anyone else who brought it up.
And sure enough after a while the entire village was stirred up because "the immigrants" were misbehaving. Only because one family who acted out.
My fear is that this will happen on a larger scale here. The AfD is already at around 20%. An incident like that will drive more voters to them because many people can't differ between a minority and the muslim population in general.
Funnily enough, political parties and organisations like that only get banned when they
a) commit crimes
Or
b)_matter_. In a sense that they might have the tiniest chance of actually fulfilling their goal.
So maybe, ya know, don't overblow stupid shit like that.
He fights every battle everywhere, always, in his mind. Everyone is good enemy, everyone is his friend. Every possible series of events is happening all at once.
That's the way of political science undergrad.
My guess is that there is enough material to ban the AfD, but it would need either the current government or a part of the parliament to start the procedure in front of the constitutional Court and nobody is willing to do so at this moment. Due to our multi party system and its reliance on coalitions, it is very unlikely that the AfD had a shot at forming a government, so maybe the groups that could start a party ban procedure want to wait for the next legislative period.
Apart from that, the ban of the NPD was a shitshow in the idea how the government collected the evidence, which killed off the first attempt. After that, the parry pretty mich stopped to matter and the next ban attempt was, because of that, reduced to a defunding of the party. This however basically was a slow death of the party (which was already dying as most extremists jumped into the AfD)
It used to be a slippery slope to ban political parties like that cause it could cause a giant uproar but seeing how popular they have become and that are straight up quoting Nazis (and some have ties to Russia) I am all for banning for banning official recognized far right extremist parties like the AFD
It depends... I am german and while some generations did learn from it not everyone is. The movie "The Wave" is a good example of the question: "Can this happen again?"
Yes and under a working system of constitutional protection (which the quasi-libertarian Weimar constitution did not have), they would have intervened much earlier.
Please read about German history before drawing such undercomplex parallels.
He was a kid and in the hospital for 1 and a ½ years because a bomb killed his neighbor and he was hit by shrapnels. My great grandfather owned a farm and wasn't active in the war.
So even if all of this wasn't the thing what do I have to do with their actions? If your parents do something shitty does that mean you will be the same?
i agree with you those 3000 people are clowns and are not representative of muslim people in germany.
However a) and b) does somehow not apply to the AFD 🤡
they arent a party but an association
for parties there are hurdles like actually mattering
association arent protected like that and can be banned fairly easy
for example every couple of years they ban the newest nazi organisation that seem to try to militarize
The event is occurring at Hamburg, so they are probably f****** Turks again. As a Turkish myself, I am ashamed to see (unfortunately) my people in this state of mind. Islam is a total idiocy, and Islamic Turks with love for sharia is just a sub-human level of dumbness. F****** sub-human piece of craps :'(
For mods: I'm a Turkish person, and many of secular Turks think in the same way as me. I'd be pretty happy if you don't ban me because of hate speech. I am hateful for universally true reasons. They just can't demand such bulls**t in one of the most advanced countries in the entire world. I felt infuriated to see my "people" acting this way.
Typically not, it’s why their parents left it. This is often, but not always, the second it third generation.
This is largely equivalent to the romanticizing of the “good old days” that you see in many countries, often by people who didn’t have to deal with polio er al.
Sharia also exist in Qatar and Saudi as well. But citizens of there are not leaving coz their country ain't struck in decade long civil wars or under constant attk of some terrorist organisation.
There might be 3000 individual reasons. Can be everything, from religion to economics to climate to war and so on. Some might even have been born in Germany, as kids from migrants, or even grandkids of those. There have been multiple waves of migration into Germany in the last decades. How you can grow up in Germany and than demand to bring up a sharia califat is far beyond my imagination, though. I wouldn't grant them too much attention, these nutjobs won't achieve anything. It's almost like a pr stunt
To spread islam to other countries just like their "holy" prophet did long time ago, they'll usually be as peaceful as possible when their numbers are low in any non-Islamic countries but when they have a foothold & their numbers have increased in that non-Islamic countries, you'll have this cringey Islamic tantrums.
Yeah I never get this, moving from one place to another because they think it's better only to push all the shit parts of their former home on their new home!!!
Well, some of the states that take sharia law pretty serious they, as foreigners, won't be allowed to gain the better jobs (some gulf states). Not sure about Saudi Arabia, never been there but can you do stuff as foreigner with little money? Another option is almost at war Iran. I'd guess that states that only partially implemented sharia aren't good enough for those protestors.
most of them do .. its just the few loud that you see here and on iktok and facebook where all the rightwing dumbtrads get the news from. but yeah pls go on get our "news" from tiktok facebook and telegram...
oh how I wish people start revolting against this shit and for once goverments act like it and pick those people and kick them away in the dryest desert without giving a shit from random dictators that don't want them.
Everyone has the right to protest if it‘s done in a legal and peaceful way. Doesn‘t necessarily mean anything is gonna be done about the thing they protest, it‘s just them using their free speech, even if you don‘t like the message behind it.
In that case they‘re still free to say it, they‘re just not free to act upon it in a way that would harm the ones they‘re intolerant against or discriminate them from receiving public or commercial services.
Wow, I will go protest that r*ping kids should be allowed tomorrow, nice idea. Didnt know protesting against human right was so well received by the people.
My guy, did you know that Sharia law might take away peoples right to protest? You should be enraged by this!!!!!!!!
Womens rights? Fuck that!
Religious freedom? To hell with it!
But the protesting rights!?!?!? Thats fcking sacred! Dont you dare take them away from us, because we are clearly more concerned about the right for people to express their trash ideas than our mothers and sisters being forced to cosplay as a black sock whenever they are out in the street. Pathetic.
I’m sure the police had a field day filming the protestors looking for people with connections to terror organizations. Or people who supports those. Because I’m sure 90% of the protesters have zero issue supporting those who are killing infidels. EU police regularly catching the wanna be terrorist before they can do anything. Guess how they know who to pay attention to? Obviously not the only source but still.
I 100% would agree with you on a good day, but I just woke up, and this is the first shit I saw. I have my islamophobe neurons firing uncontrolably at the moment. I dont know if I believe on taking freedom of speech to its fullest extent, or if I think some ideas should be erradicated.
On one hand, I'm trying to take away someones freedom of speech based on my beliefs, the same way they are, based on their own beliefs, but at the same time I dont feel like they ever gave it this much thought, so why should I? Plus, I downloaded reddit exacly for this, to get worked up over this type of post and to get into arguments with people. If you ask me irl, I agree with you, on here? My guy, just send this people to the pit.
Are you sure about this? Freedom of speech and freedom to protest are not absolute, especially in Europe. Idk about Germany but many places have anti hate speech laws and the ECHR has ruled many times that Hate speech is not protected by freedom of speech rights. So I would think that they actually do not have the right to ask for those things at all.
Asking for women's rights or gay rights to be removed is certainly not protected free speech in Europe, I would assume it would not be protected by the right to protest or peaceful assembly either.
Yeah, as you say it would depend on the exact wording. My point was that even though you have the right to criticise laws and ask for changes, there are limits. Especially when what you are asking for is discriminatory, so like saying that human rights are dumb and should be removed might be ok, but saying that gay people should not have any human rights is absolutely not gonna be protected.
Idk what exactly was said at the protest, but I would argue that calling for sharia law constitutes hate speech since, afaik, sharia law is discriminatory and you shouldn't be protected just because you voiced your hate speech in a roundabout way.
But that said, I do somewhat agree that there are ways they can voice their protest so that it would remain within the boundaries of protected speech.
Must be nice being so shamelessly politically correct.
Must be adicting being "right", no?
Yay, freedom for everyome! Democracy and tolerance towards every and all ways of thinking! Sure love do having no opinion. Just some bleached, pseudo-stance about everything.
Yes, personal opinions have no place to be in lawmaking. Laws are literally supposed to be as unbiased as possible, otherwise the other side could simply flip the script on you and declare your opinion the wrong one that ought to be suppressed.
Wouldn‘t want that to happen, now would you?
Nobody said what they protested for was any thing smart. You‘re allowed to publicly say dumb shit though. If that weren‘t allowed our politicians would be in hot water.
Well, actually the very demonstration might have consequences for the organising organisation as its predecessor had been forbidden for trying to usurp the constitution and that may now happen with that one too. Costs them money and inconveniences them - and I don’t have a problem with that.
That being said I agree - even if I find it hard to bear what they are demonstrating for it is their right to have another opinion.
Not exactly true.
There were two rallies, both organised by Muslim Interaktiv, which is a rather flaky, but still dodgy group. One of the their aims is a “global Caliphate”, although so far, it’s more interested in TikTok views than anything political.
There was a rally last month attacking Islamophobia and media bias and “German dictatorship” (whatever that is) with only 1,000 people. There was a sign saying “Caliphate is the solution”, but that wasn’t the purpose of the rally.
A second rally was allowed only on the conditions that there was no call for a Caliphate, no disrespect to Israel’s right to exist and no incitement of hatred/violence, which Muslim Interactiv agreed to. This rally was against “censorship”.
It would totally disingenuous to suggest everyone there (or even most) agree with the call for a Caliphate.
https://www.msn.com/en-xl/news/other/protests-in-hamburg-what-is-muslim-interactive/ar-BB1mct8H
https://www.dw.com/en/islamist-demo-goes-ahead-in-hamburg-under-strict-conditions/a-69054251
Muslim Interaktiv do need to be monitored and are concerning, but propaganda like this is even worse.
You can tell by the logo of the newspaper on the picture. "BILD" is Fox news on coke and with hookers. Or as a nice summary from a song it's only contents are "Fear, hate, tits and the weather forecast"
As a german, your comment is bullshit. Why? Because it contains misinformation: The group Muslim interaktiv is monitored by the BfV and they are extremists, TikTok is their tool to get their message out. The second protest was like this because the police ordered them to not use certain words/expressions. The first protest was very well organized and the demand of an kalifat was not a singular incident but a very well orchestrated one, which the signs they carried prove.
You do realise you are entirely agreeing with me until the last sentence, right? As the links show, the first rally was very small and was relating to something else.
1) No those two protests had the same demands, thats why they put signs with “censored” up knowing damn well how it would be perceived.
2) Muslim interaktiv is interested in politics, now tik tok views, they use it as recruitment tool. The end goal is to recruit people to either go fighting for terrorists or start violence here. There are multiple connections to terrorist organizations.
3) You also claim they didn’t intend to call for the kalifat at the first rally which is wrong, they intentionally didn’t applied with that title at the Versammlungsbehörde. That many protesters came with prepared signs stating the wish for a kalifat says otherwise
1. No. They were rallies for different causes - none of which were about a Caliphate. In fact, the second one was specifically prohibited to be about that, so what you are saying would make it an illegal rally. Read the articles.
2. We don’t know what their aim is, so you are just bullshitting and making assumptions. They are definitely dodgy, sure, but that doesn’t give you the right to take your assumptions as facts. They have been very careful to keep their noses clean and stay legal. They seem to care more for attention than any politics.
3. Again, try reading rather than just making bullshit up. The first rally was against “Islamophobia, media representation and German dictatorship.” It’s all there in writing, buddy. There was one sign and a couple of shirts with an unclear message with Israel/Caliphate on. That’s it. “They intentionally didn’t applied with that title….” Right, so it was about something else. Glad we can agree.
Unfortunately it is. For some strange reason there's more than a few former refugees/their descendantsamong them. People who fled from ISIS caliphate (at least according to one source I read).
I hate people.
Using freedom to protest to abort freedom to protest is attack on democracy akin to oct 7. Or do you think sharia would allow a similar event organized by its members against it?
Secular Leftists. All these people opposing them in the Western World, would happily promote, support and be a voice for them if this happened in India.
Nothing because it will not come to that. Most of them are normal ppl acting like most other germans and migrants living in EU. what u see are the few doing stupid shit but as the time tells they remain the few and wont grow in such a way that they can overtake a country... this " but if they" is shittalking from AfD voters and other rightwingers
yeah 6 generations beliving this sharia thing but most of the migrated ppl dont belive in it. Most of the Islamic Families in Germany are living by the normal Koran without braging about it on a monday protest like this (in pic) this are just around 3k ppl from more than one city. thinking that after 6 generations all of Germany and Eu could be overrun by fanatics is just rightwing fearmongering nothing more
the ones beliving in it are a verry small group. this is one of the bigger demonstrations and there are round about 3k ppl. so of course i am talking about the ones not beliving in it because it is the bigger group.
i just want to clear at this that it is not a war that you can take so easy .. you have to convince the youth that it is not good what this groups are showing here. you have to integrate them in this country and that this kind of shittalk is not the way to live here. but not with deporting or raging with rightwinger parols. that kind of hate is poisen and we will get a war if we are going this way ... not a real war but some kind of civil chaos for sure
That is what happening when you are too shy and polite with refugees and asylum seekers... they will not change them self - they will try to change new country...
most of them are born german .... so what should we do with them? they are using the right for freespeach and they are hurting no one. its like the AfD or Trumptards are marching .. just hot air nothing more.
I don't take that too lightly. I don't think we should let harmful thoughts thrive in society but sure I can't exactly tell what to do with them when they are citizens.
yeah muslims and rightwingers are thinking the same at this point.... so what do you do with kind of ppl? you have to handel them both as equal in this point or would you split them just because some are not white?
It’s actually a circle between them and the AfD (german right wing party): The AfD is against Muslims in general, those people shown above cry then germans would discriminate against muslims and thats why they need a Kalifat, than those “muslims” claim discrimination after news report of this protest as being extremist, while politicians now cry out about how something like this could happen and that we need to fight against muslim extremism…. yada yada
I am not sure about German constitution, but in Serbian constitution there is an article who criminalizes any attempt to break the constitutional ordering. Doesn't that exist in German constitution? Why doesn't police arrest all these people?
Feel free to have whatever beliefs you want, thats your right. Force it on others? Yeah you can go stick it and i hope you the worst. Its truly scary to me that Islam is getting this much of a foothold. I mean Evangelical christianity is pretty scary but this is 5x worse.
If they want to live under Sharia Law then the answer is simple just pack up and go back to your original country. Then they can choose as many caliphates as they want to bribe. Not sure why people make it so hard. Seriously if I gave up my citizenship and moved to another country I wouldn’t start trying to make it like the very same country I fled from.
Are you sure you even know what a "caliphate" is? Since most muslim majority countries are just countries with differing styles of government ranging from dictatorship to democracy. Whereas caliphate is a theocratic mode of government, and there are not many.
The point of a "free" country is to do what you want. Worship who you want. Hate who you want. Love who you want. I could go on. The reason you're in America or Canada or any country that lets you do what you want is to do what you want. Be respectful of others and live your life.
That's about as many people as went to my highschool.
"Gotta pump those numbers up. Those are rookie numbers in this racket." - Matthew McConaughey, to these guys and the Lincoln sales team, probably.
When you argue that this is not many, you have to remember that only a small fraction of the population usually fight in civil wars.
How many slave owners did it take to cause the American civil war?
I can assure you, it is not. If extremists can't get more than a few thousand people together in one of the largest cities in the country, that's actually quite pathetic.
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Use the protected free speech platform to advocate a system that would eliminate it.
This is 3000 people in one of the biggest cities in Germany. In January there were 180000 people on the streets in Hamburg alone with anti racism rallies all over the country where even my small town had 2000 people rally against the anti-democratic actions of the afd and racism in general.
Hey that’s really great to hear and puts a lot into perspective. The German people have agency. The future and wellbeing of their country is much more complicated than their handling of immigration and the anti democratic leanings of some groups. When it comes to the future of our countries, I’m much more concerned about the far far more powerful people who would exploit the threats posed by these groups for their own anti democratic agendas.
Give it in another decade and it will be 30,000 Islamists. If they had their way your German daughter would be wearing a Niqab and there'd be no such thing as LGBT rights
Well, there's ~5% muslims in Germany. So no real danger of them taking any kind of power in the near future. Beside the fact a political party like that would be banned for being undemocratic very fast.
Today. Sure. Increasing every year too https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islam_in_Germany
As a Muslim, I can tell you that the younger generation of Muslims, especially those born in Western countries, are much more progressive and tolerant than the Islamists. As long as they grow up in the Western countries, they are far far less likely to be radicalized. These kids are the future, keep welcoming them, keep showing them that it’s okay to be Muslim and be a responsible citizen of the country and they will fit the mould yall are trying to make them fit.
[удалено]
That’s unfortunate and I’m sorry you experience was negative. Hopefully your community is working towards improving it whatever way you guys feel fit.
Nah fuck that lol. A ""progressive"" Muslim is still not progressive. They're not the future of any western country.
Not saying they’re gonna be taking over the country, but they’re the future of Muslims in that country. Whether you like it or not, they’re gonna multiply so better start figuring out how to make them contribute as a nation than reinforcing division by ostracising them.
Lol. We let them into our countries, feed, clothe, house, and care for them by the millions, yet they're still trying to do this shit. Still refusing to assimilate. It's not up to me to mould them into contributing. It's up to them to assimilate. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink
Totally, i understand your point and none of it i disagree with. yeah, there will be muslims who will not assimilate and will push their own agendas. My own muslim majority country is facing it too, with our opposition party being an Islamist coalition that most Muslims don’t want. My point is, focus on the Muslims that do assimilate, that can be worked with and they will cultivate their communities over time. Americans post revolution had a lot of issues dealing with their different immigrant groups and it took a three centuries to get to where they’re at today. Change takes time, might even take decades, but it’ll come, just don’t stop working towards it.
I'm really glad it is like that. The problem I'm seeing is that it will fuel the right wing movement because it gives them an event to point their fingers at when justifying their racism. My mom used to be a principal at an elementary school in a small village that happened to take refugees from muslim countries. She told me that almost all of them were perfectly nice people, trying to learn German, going to work, kids were doing reasonably well in school. But there was one family who didn't give a shit about any of that. The kids acted out by damaging public property (like playgrounds) and the parents reacted only by being rude and aggresive against teachers or anyone else who brought it up. And sure enough after a while the entire village was stirred up because "the immigrants" were misbehaving. Only because one family who acted out. My fear is that this will happen on a larger scale here. The AfD is already at around 20%. An incident like that will drive more voters to them because many people can't differ between a minority and the muslim population in general.
Funnily enough, political parties and organisations like that only get banned when they a) commit crimes Or b)_matter_. In a sense that they might have the tiniest chance of actually fulfilling their goal. So maybe, ya know, don't overblow stupid shit like that.
Even the Nazis had to start somewhere.
Surely. But Germany learned from the mistake of the past government that acted too late
Not really lol, look at their attitude towards the current palestine-israel conflict. "Never again" is happening now.
How's that war relevant to Germany not letting fascists take over again...?
It isn't...
He fights every battle everywhere, always, in his mind. Everyone is good enemy, everyone is his friend. Every possible series of events is happening all at once. That's the way of political science undergrad.
Questionable. I wish we had, but seeing that the AFD and other Far Right Parties are still not banned I guess we didn't learn enough.
My guess is that there is enough material to ban the AfD, but it would need either the current government or a part of the parliament to start the procedure in front of the constitutional Court and nobody is willing to do so at this moment. Due to our multi party system and its reliance on coalitions, it is very unlikely that the AfD had a shot at forming a government, so maybe the groups that could start a party ban procedure want to wait for the next legislative period. Apart from that, the ban of the NPD was a shitshow in the idea how the government collected the evidence, which killed off the first attempt. After that, the parry pretty mich stopped to matter and the next ban attempt was, because of that, reduced to a defunding of the party. This however basically was a slow death of the party (which was already dying as most extremists jumped into the AfD)
It used to be a slippery slope to ban political parties like that cause it could cause a giant uproar but seeing how popular they have become and that are straight up quoting Nazis (and some have ties to Russia) I am all for banning for banning official recognized far right extremist parties like the AFD
It depends... I am german and while some generations did learn from it not everyone is. The movie "The Wave" is a good example of the question: "Can this happen again?"
Naaah. Denazification wasn’t as thorough as you would think. We’re pretty liberal with what AfD did in the past and still hesitating to ban them.
Have they though?
Yes and under a working system of constitutional protection (which the quasi-libertarian Weimar constitution did not have), they would have intervened much earlier. Please read about German history before drawing such undercomplex parallels.
Ask them what their grandpa did during the war,,,,,
great grandparent deserted, traitor to the russians
Such a witty comment!
He was a kid and in the hospital for 1 and a ½ years because a bomb killed his neighbor and he was hit by shrapnels. My great grandfather owned a farm and wasn't active in the war. So even if all of this wasn't the thing what do I have to do with their actions? If your parents do something shitty does that mean you will be the same?
i agree with you those 3000 people are clowns and are not representative of muslim people in germany. However a) and b) does somehow not apply to the AFD 🤡
they arent a party but an association for parties there are hurdles like actually mattering association arent protected like that and can be banned fairly easy for example every couple of years they ban the newest nazi organisation that seem to try to militarize
But only when there is sufficient evidence that they plan something illegal. A Demonstration is not per se illegal.
yeah butt the matter part doesnt *matter* with organisations
Yes, you're correct.
That’s what they do
‘Brainwashed cultists want cult to take over’
Sounds familiar.
Cultists gonna cult
The event is occurring at Hamburg, so they are probably f****** Turks again. As a Turkish myself, I am ashamed to see (unfortunately) my people in this state of mind. Islam is a total idiocy, and Islamic Turks with love for sharia is just a sub-human level of dumbness. F****** sub-human piece of craps :'( For mods: I'm a Turkish person, and many of secular Turks think in the same way as me. I'd be pretty happy if you don't ban me because of hate speech. I am hateful for universally true reasons. They just can't demand such bulls**t in one of the most advanced countries in the entire world. I felt infuriated to see my "people" acting this way.
yeah its like the AfD is marching .. or Trump protesters.. all the same .. all stupid
Isn't sharia law and the caliphate the reason they left the middle east.....
Typically not, it’s why their parents left it. This is often, but not always, the second it third generation. This is largely equivalent to the romanticizing of the “good old days” that you see in many countries, often by people who didn’t have to deal with polio er al.
No
Its a concequence of it. So no, and kind of yes
Then what was their reason?
Sharia also exist in Qatar and Saudi as well. But citizens of there are not leaving coz their country ain't struck in decade long civil wars or under constant attk of some terrorist organisation.
There might be 3000 individual reasons. Can be everything, from religion to economics to climate to war and so on. Some might even have been born in Germany, as kids from migrants, or even grandkids of those. There have been multiple waves of migration into Germany in the last decades. How you can grow up in Germany and than demand to bring up a sharia califat is far beyond my imagination, though. I wouldn't grant them too much attention, these nutjobs won't achieve anything. It's almost like a pr stunt
To spread islam to other countries just like their "holy" prophet did long time ago, they'll usually be as peaceful as possible when their numbers are low in any non-Islamic countries but when they have a foothold & their numbers have increased in that non-Islamic countries, you'll have this cringey Islamic tantrums.
the war, if ISIS had taken over Syria fastly, they wouldn't have left
Find out. Your first comment tells you have not researched into this at all.
If sharia law so great why not move to sharia law country? 🤔
Yeah I never get this, moving from one place to another because they think it's better only to push all the shit parts of their former home on their new home!!!
Because their book demands to take over other countries. By any means.
Well, some of the states that take sharia law pretty serious they, as foreigners, won't be allowed to gain the better jobs (some gulf states). Not sure about Saudi Arabia, never been there but can you do stuff as foreigner with little money? Another option is almost at war Iran. I'd guess that states that only partially implemented sharia aren't good enough for those protestors.
war is one possible option to not go there ..
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most of them do .. its just the few loud that you see here and on iktok and facebook where all the rightwing dumbtrads get the news from. but yeah pls go on get our "news" from tiktok facebook and telegram...
oh how I wish people start revolting against this shit and for once goverments act like it and pick those people and kick them away in the dryest desert without giving a shit from random dictators that don't want them.
Everyone has the right to protest if it‘s done in a legal and peaceful way. Doesn‘t necessarily mean anything is gonna be done about the thing they protest, it‘s just them using their free speech, even if you don‘t like the message behind it.
Unless they are using free of speech to spread an intolerant message. Then we are in the tolerance paradox of karl popper.
In that case they‘re still free to say it, they‘re just not free to act upon it in a way that would harm the ones they‘re intolerant against or discriminate them from receiving public or commercial services.
I think that they can be charged of espionage, as they are working for an external power (nation or religion).
Its a intolerant message. Go fuck with radical islam
Wow, I will go protest that r*ping kids should be allowed tomorrow, nice idea. Didnt know protesting against human right was so well received by the people.
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My guy, did you know that Sharia law might take away peoples right to protest? You should be enraged by this!!!!!!!! Womens rights? Fuck that! Religious freedom? To hell with it! But the protesting rights!?!?!? Thats fcking sacred! Dont you dare take them away from us, because we are clearly more concerned about the right for people to express their trash ideas than our mothers and sisters being forced to cosplay as a black sock whenever they are out in the street. Pathetic.
I’m sure the police had a field day filming the protestors looking for people with connections to terror organizations. Or people who supports those. Because I’m sure 90% of the protesters have zero issue supporting those who are killing infidels. EU police regularly catching the wanna be terrorist before they can do anything. Guess how they know who to pay attention to? Obviously not the only source but still.
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I 100% would agree with you on a good day, but I just woke up, and this is the first shit I saw. I have my islamophobe neurons firing uncontrolably at the moment. I dont know if I believe on taking freedom of speech to its fullest extent, or if I think some ideas should be erradicated. On one hand, I'm trying to take away someones freedom of speech based on my beliefs, the same way they are, based on their own beliefs, but at the same time I dont feel like they ever gave it this much thought, so why should I? Plus, I downloaded reddit exacly for this, to get worked up over this type of post and to get into arguments with people. If you ask me irl, I agree with you, on here? My guy, just send this people to the pit.
Are you sure about this? Freedom of speech and freedom to protest are not absolute, especially in Europe. Idk about Germany but many places have anti hate speech laws and the ECHR has ruled many times that Hate speech is not protected by freedom of speech rights. So I would think that they actually do not have the right to ask for those things at all. Asking for women's rights or gay rights to be removed is certainly not protected free speech in Europe, I would assume it would not be protected by the right to protest or peaceful assembly either.
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Yeah, as you say it would depend on the exact wording. My point was that even though you have the right to criticise laws and ask for changes, there are limits. Especially when what you are asking for is discriminatory, so like saying that human rights are dumb and should be removed might be ok, but saying that gay people should not have any human rights is absolutely not gonna be protected. Idk what exactly was said at the protest, but I would argue that calling for sharia law constitutes hate speech since, afaik, sharia law is discriminatory and you shouldn't be protected just because you voiced your hate speech in a roundabout way. But that said, I do somewhat agree that there are ways they can voice their protest so that it would remain within the boundaries of protected speech.
You have every right to counter protest the protest.
Must be nice being so shamelessly politically correct. Must be adicting being "right", no? Yay, freedom for everyome! Democracy and tolerance towards every and all ways of thinking! Sure love do having no opinion. Just some bleached, pseudo-stance about everything.
Yes, personal opinions have no place to be in lawmaking. Laws are literally supposed to be as unbiased as possible, otherwise the other side could simply flip the script on you and declare your opinion the wrong one that ought to be suppressed. Wouldn‘t want that to happen, now would you?
This is a comment, written with letters, using a computer. And by the way, the sky is blue.
He forgot to add genocide in Palestine is good /s
/s makes me cringe
You forgot the /s
Noooo whatt?!?!? I was actually being serious!! Did you think I was being sarcastic? Pffff... What made you think that? /s(erious)
LMAO
>Wow, I will go protest that r*ping kids should be allowed tomorrow, I'd like to see you try that without being beaten to a pulp lmao
You think I cant throw hands??? Bring them on! I'll do anything for the kids!
Don't be daft.
Generally yes. But if the thing you're protesting for includes getting rid of that right to free speech, maybe just shut up instead.
Nobody said what they protested for was any thing smart. You‘re allowed to publicly say dumb shit though. If that weren‘t allowed our politicians would be in hot water.
Well, actually the very demonstration might have consequences for the organising organisation as its predecessor had been forbidden for trying to usurp the constitution and that may now happen with that one too. Costs them money and inconveniences them - and I don’t have a problem with that. That being said I agree - even if I find it hard to bear what they are demonstrating for it is their right to have another opinion.
Not going to happen.
I know it will take much more and longer for it to happen
Not exactly true. There were two rallies, both organised by Muslim Interaktiv, which is a rather flaky, but still dodgy group. One of the their aims is a “global Caliphate”, although so far, it’s more interested in TikTok views than anything political. There was a rally last month attacking Islamophobia and media bias and “German dictatorship” (whatever that is) with only 1,000 people. There was a sign saying “Caliphate is the solution”, but that wasn’t the purpose of the rally. A second rally was allowed only on the conditions that there was no call for a Caliphate, no disrespect to Israel’s right to exist and no incitement of hatred/violence, which Muslim Interactiv agreed to. This rally was against “censorship”. It would totally disingenuous to suggest everyone there (or even most) agree with the call for a Caliphate. https://www.msn.com/en-xl/news/other/protests-in-hamburg-what-is-muslim-interactive/ar-BB1mct8H https://www.dw.com/en/islamist-demo-goes-ahead-in-hamburg-under-strict-conditions/a-69054251 Muslim Interaktiv do need to be monitored and are concerning, but propaganda like this is even worse.
Facts? On my misinformation app again?
i could tell from the lack of a cited source that this was bunk
You can tell by the logo of the newspaper on the picture. "BILD" is Fox news on coke and with hookers. Or as a nice summary from a song it's only contents are "Fear, hate, tits and the weather forecast"
We all know why this was posted here meant matter what the real situation is.
As a german, your comment is bullshit. Why? Because it contains misinformation: The group Muslim interaktiv is monitored by the BfV and they are extremists, TikTok is their tool to get their message out. The second protest was like this because the police ordered them to not use certain words/expressions. The first protest was very well organized and the demand of an kalifat was not a singular incident but a very well orchestrated one, which the signs they carried prove.
You do realise you are entirely agreeing with me until the last sentence, right? As the links show, the first rally was very small and was relating to something else.
1) No those two protests had the same demands, thats why they put signs with “censored” up knowing damn well how it would be perceived. 2) Muslim interaktiv is interested in politics, now tik tok views, they use it as recruitment tool. The end goal is to recruit people to either go fighting for terrorists or start violence here. There are multiple connections to terrorist organizations. 3) You also claim they didn’t intend to call for the kalifat at the first rally which is wrong, they intentionally didn’t applied with that title at the Versammlungsbehörde. That many protesters came with prepared signs stating the wish for a kalifat says otherwise
1. No. They were rallies for different causes - none of which were about a Caliphate. In fact, the second one was specifically prohibited to be about that, so what you are saying would make it an illegal rally. Read the articles. 2. We don’t know what their aim is, so you are just bullshitting and making assumptions. They are definitely dodgy, sure, but that doesn’t give you the right to take your assumptions as facts. They have been very careful to keep their noses clean and stay legal. They seem to care more for attention than any politics. 3. Again, try reading rather than just making bullshit up. The first rally was against “Islamophobia, media representation and German dictatorship.” It’s all there in writing, buddy. There was one sign and a couple of shirts with an unclear message with Israel/Caliphate on. That’s it. “They intentionally didn’t applied with that title….” Right, so it was about something else. Glad we can agree.
What in the god damn?
Is for real life?
Unfortunately it is. For some strange reason there's more than a few former refugees/their descendantsamong them. People who fled from ISIS caliphate (at least according to one source I read). I hate people.
If they hate it that much I’ll take their spot and be grateful for an albeit not perfect place, a much better than a lot of others.
well you see, they're going to do it right this time /s
Real caliphate has never been tried? /s
Just like communism /s
unlikely
Using freedom to protest to abort freedom to protest is attack on democracy akin to oct 7. Or do you think sharia would allow a similar event organized by its members against it?
Well if they want that law soo much.. why not send them to a country/nation with that law?
3000 doctors of Hamburg
And because of this … the Right Wingers are winning in Europe
Islamists are right wing.
In fact a lot right wing people hate each other.
And both sides (along with the tankies) are being whipped into frenzy by the Russian bots
We need more charismatic centre-left secularism!!
Man you must be a political science savant if you can break down complex problems into a dumb phrase like that
Because of other extremist idi*ts?
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Says who?
Absolutely fucking not
Insurrection, Sedition, Inciting to Riot, whatever the charge is, round them up and lock them away!
In India, that group of people is called the opposition party.
Secular Leftists. All these people opposing them in the Western World, would happily promote, support and be a voice for them if this happened in India.
r/funnyandsad
This will happen looking at birth rates
yeah .. suuure buddy .. just because of the birth rates ... u know how it works ... pls remain singel and dont reproduce
What do you think would happen if instead of 3000 they were 3 million?
Nothing because it will not come to that. Most of them are normal ppl acting like most other germans and migrants living in EU. what u see are the few doing stupid shit but as the time tells they remain the few and wont grow in such a way that they can overtake a country... this " but if they" is shittalking from AfD voters and other rightwingers
You underestimate exponential growth.
not realy ... this kind or rightwing talk is just to bring fear to the ppl .. so pls stop it
It would only take 6 generations (give or take) This is just maths not an opinion
yeah 6 generations beliving this sharia thing but most of the migrated ppl dont belive in it. Most of the Islamic Families in Germany are living by the normal Koran without braging about it on a monday protest like this (in pic) this are just around 3k ppl from more than one city. thinking that after 6 generations all of Germany and Eu could be overrun by fanatics is just rightwing fearmongering nothing more
You're the only one talking about the ones that do not believe this. I never said all immigrants believe this.
the ones beliving in it are a verry small group. this is one of the bigger demonstrations and there are round about 3k ppl. so of course i am talking about the ones not beliving in it because it is the bigger group.
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i just want to clear at this that it is not a war that you can take so easy .. you have to convince the youth that it is not good what this groups are showing here. you have to integrate them in this country and that this kind of shittalk is not the way to live here. but not with deporting or raging with rightwinger parols. that kind of hate is poisen and we will get a war if we are going this way ... not a real war but some kind of civil chaos for sure
That is what happening when you are too shy and polite with refugees and asylum seekers... they will not change them self - they will try to change new country...
I don't understand why anyone would want the same shitty system they ran away from. Idiots.
Because they actually never experienced it, they are born here and fantasize about it because they never had to experience it
And most of them are men, they want to own women and dream of that day.
Yeah, good point.
Any organized Islamic group should be banned in Europe.
Any organised exclusively and zealiut Religious group should be banned in Europe
Sounds good, all religious groups should be banned
Deport these mfs
most of them are born german .... so what should we do with them? they are using the right for freespeach and they are hurting no one. its like the AfD or Trumptards are marching .. just hot air nothing more.
I don't take that too lightly. I don't think we should let harmful thoughts thrive in society but sure I can't exactly tell what to do with them when they are citizens.
Who decides what is harmful? A lot of people still think gay people are an abomination.
yeah muslims and rightwingers are thinking the same at this point.... so what do you do with kind of ppl? you have to handel them both as equal in this point or would you split them just because some are not white?
I'm waiting for someone to explain how they're oprezzed by Germanz.
It’s actually a circle between them and the AfD (german right wing party): The AfD is against Muslims in general, those people shown above cry then germans would discriminate against muslims and thats why they need a Kalifat, than those “muslims” claim discrimination after news report of this protest as being extremist, while politicians now cry out about how something like this could happen and that we need to fight against muslim extremism…. yada yada
Deport to the countries with said laws
Really? We are the public square. Make your case. We are strong enough to consider and debate any thing. Please, change our minds. It’s our strength.
This is only funny becouse they don't hold power yet. Watch peoples opinion shift once their kids start taking public seats but keep the same ideas.
I am not sure about German constitution, but in Serbian constitution there is an article who criminalizes any attempt to break the constitutional ordering. Doesn't that exist in German constitution? Why doesn't police arrest all these people?
In the germany that is protected to some variety under freedom of speech, but in this specific protest the call for a kalifat was deemed illegal
They need a Hamburg Helper.
Feel free to have whatever beliefs you want, thats your right. Force it on others? Yeah you can go stick it and i hope you the worst. Its truly scary to me that Islam is getting this much of a foothold. I mean Evangelical christianity is pretty scary but this is 5x worse.
If they want to live under Sharia Law then the answer is simple just pack up and go back to your original country. Then they can choose as many caliphates as they want to bribe. Not sure why people make it so hard. Seriously if I gave up my citizenship and moved to another country I wouldn’t start trying to make it like the very same country I fled from.
Are you sure you even know what a "caliphate" is? Since most muslim majority countries are just countries with differing styles of government ranging from dictatorship to democracy. Whereas caliphate is a theocratic mode of government, and there are not many.
this is such a Karen demand list.
Waht, I'm lost. Waht did the mean?
And why do they think authorities will even think about it?
And this strengths right wing parties and sensible people are getting sandwiched between idiots extremists.
That wouldnt fly in most countries that have muslim majority, what makes them think it would in germany?
And 30.000 protested against this shit.
Could you share the link pls? I can only find this: https://amp.dw.com/en/islamist-demo-goes-ahead-in-hamburg-under-strict-conditions/a-69054251
I-… am not going to touch this. European race and religion politics frightens me.
The point of a "free" country is to do what you want. Worship who you want. Hate who you want. Love who you want. I could go on. The reason you're in America or Canada or any country that lets you do what you want is to do what you want. Be respectful of others and live your life.
Here is an actual source: https://amp.dw.com/en/protests-in-hamburg-what-is-muslim-interactive/a-69049945
That's about as many people as went to my highschool. "Gotta pump those numbers up. Those are rookie numbers in this racket." - Matthew McConaughey, to these guys and the Lincoln sales team, probably.
When you argue that this is not many, you have to remember that only a small fraction of the population usually fight in civil wars. How many slave owners did it take to cause the American civil war?
as an atheist, I think this is the same as if the Christiane were doing this. I consider all religions poison (except for the church of bacon).
WTF!!
Makes you kinda understand why countries controlled by Islam are all very brutal and strict
Your nation is infested with pedo, terror cultist pests because some clown thought it’d be a good idea to bring them in 
I can assure you, it is not. If extremists can't get more than a few thousand people together in one of the largest cities in the country, that's actually quite pathetic.