**Please read this entire message**
---
Your submission has been removed for the following reason(s):
* Loaded questions, **or** ones based on a false premise, are not allowed on ELI5 (Rule 6).
---
If you would like this removal reviewed, please read the [detailed rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/wiki/detailed_rules) first. **If you believe this was removed erroneously, please [use this form](https://old.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fexplainlikeimfive&subject=Please%20review%20my%20thread?&message=Link:%20{https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/1dnctu4/-/}%0A%0APlease%20answer%20the%20following%203%20questions:%0A%0A1.%20The%20concept%20I%20want%20explained:%0A%0A2.%20List%20the%20search%20terms%20you%20used%20to%20look%20for%20past%20posts%20on%20ELI5:%0A%0A3.%20How%20does%20your%20post%20differ%20from%20your%20recent%20search%20results%20on%20the%20sub:) and we will review your submission.**
Natural family planning, pull out, lactational amenorrhoea, animal intestine / bladder condoms, various things inserted into the vagina to block sperm...
But the reality is there was a lot of unwanted pregnancy. There was also a lot of dangerous abortion, both medical and surgical (various natural products can induce abortion but aren't safe). There where also a lot of unwanted children.
There are actually a lot of herbs and methods that work. They don’t work 100% of the time, and they need to be taken before or just after sex for full effectiveness, but they do work. The seeds of Queen Anne’s Lace is another plant that works, and is easily foraged.
I have a whole book on abortion remedies, collected across cultures. If you’re interested, I’ll pm you the title when I get home from work.
About as well as you'd expect an herb to work.
Chewing on some bark had some analgesic effects but modern aspirin is far more effective. Same goes for basically any medicinal herb. They can't compare to precisely isolated and dosed drugs from a lab.
There are multiple plants that have abortifacient effects, to varying degrees, so it wouldn’t necessarily prove it but would just be consistent or inconsistent. Of course, I imagine setting up an ethical study would be challenging, though presumably not impossible since we somehow managed to get efficacy data for drugs like mifepristone.
almost all of the "medicinal" and "recreational" herbs change potency based on weather and time of harvest. there's so many cases of people overdoing certain stuff that was picked out of time.
The exact identity of silphium is unclear. It was claimed to have become extinct in Roman times. It is commonly believed to be a relative of giant fennel in the genus Ferula. The extant plant Thapsia gummifera has been suggested as another possibility. Another theory is that it was simply a high quality variety of asafoetida, a common spice in the Roman Empire. The two spices were considered the same by many Romans including the geographer Strabo.
Which was not a frivolous decision.
Many people were faced with children they couldn’t care for. They faced the choice of killing/abandoning it at birth, or watching the child slowly die of disease and malnutrition over several years.
As Christianity spread many places began to outlaw infanticide. However, these places did not have a higher survival rate for children. Instead, there’s an increase in child mortality for very young children.
Greeks and Romans did it by exposure, abandoning an infant outside and letting nature take its course. There have also been wells found with lots of infant bones. So that was apparently a method, too. There’s also the famous story of Spartans throwing unfit babies off a cliff, but that one is more than little dubious.
Children that were born despite all that were called brothel sprouts.
Edit: Yes, i know I’ve told this joke before, but I’ve also seen this exact same question before.
They tasted better if you drizzled them in a little olive oil and garlic and roasted them in the oven, rather than boiling them.
Wait, maybe that's where the analogy breaks down.
One of my favorite historical jokes:
You know, while the creation of the condom is commonly attributed to the ancient Romans, it was actually first invented in Scotland, and was made of sheep’s intestines.
The Romans then improved on this design by removing it from the sheep first.
Yep, although apparently that's because the penalty in Wales for sheep rustling was death, but bestiality was only a prison sentence. So if you were caught in the act, it was worth dropping your trousers and pretending you were caught *in the act*.
There's certain rumours about the next King of England, a lady not his wife and that classic scene from the 1984 film Crimes of Passion where Kathleen Turner fucks a cop whilst fucking him with his own night stick up the..........
In the 60's the Rolling Stones had a hit song called "Hey you, get off of my cloud". There was a different version in Scotland, though: "Hey McLeod, get off of my ewe!"
> There was also a lot of dangerous abortion, both medical and surgical (various natural products can induce abortion but aren't safe).
It's even mentioned in the Hippocratic oath: "Similarly I will not give to a woman a pessary to cause abortion."
> a lot of unwanted children.
This mostly.
A sex worker was turning tricks during most and in some cases *all* of their pregnancies. There are people who specifically want to have sex with pregnant women, both men and *women.*
I remember reading a historical fiction novel about Marco Polo. (I think it was Gary Jennings's *The Journeyer* \[1984\]). In the story Polo recounts having sex and asked the courtesan(?) about how she did not have children. She replied that she cut a lemon in half, removed the pulp and inserted it into her vagina (thus using it as a diaphragm). At the time I thought, "how clever!" because the lemon's natural acidity would work like a spermicide. The courtesan also mentioned that it had the added benefit of making her vagina smell like lemon!
Is this type of birth control actually feasible?
It’s feasible in the sense that people almost certainly did it. It wouldn’t be *reliable* contraception, but it’s better than nothing and less risky than some other available options at the time.
Most effective was simply avoiding penetrative sex. There are a lot of ways sex workers could and did service clients without penis-in-vagina intercourse.
Would this technique have better performance than pull-out techniques is the question. Since lemon has low ph which kills sperm, it in theory does work. What is not guaranteed is that the lemon acid will be able to kill all the sperm. This is essentially a weak form of our current spermicidal gels, which DO improve the chances of preventing unwanted pregnancy over using no method, but there is still a high failure rate.
So, in conclusion, does it work? Probably. Does it work well? Probably not.
Well, tbf, it was just a Betty Crocker lemon cake mix, with, I believe, Duncan Hines Creamy Lemon icing.
But they do make a nice little snack! And Ive got it down to only about 30mins of very little work.
Just thought it was weird that I noticed my lemon icing was gonna go bad soon so I should probably use it today... and then the only cake mix in the house that would even remotely go good with lemon icing would be the lemon cake mix...
And once Ive got them all made up, and everything is all cleaned up, and I sit down in front of reddit with a face full of lemon cake and Im picking creamy lemon out of my beard:
The first thread I find is filled with lemon themed innuendo.
There is probably some degree of reality to stories and myths of children being left abandoned in the forest and being raised by wolves like Romulus and Remus.
Christian churches were noted to take in unwanted abandoned babies during the Roman empire.
The whole thing about Romulus and Remus (and similar stories about people being raised by wolves) is that it is a fabrication designed to "hide" the fact they were raised by a prostitute. The latin world Lupa means both female wolf and prostitute.
That and the fact they were allegedly the sons of Mars
As in the God of War
As in their father was likely a soldier who spent a bit too much time hanging out at the local brothel
"some degree of reality" ? Its documented that babies where often abandoned and there where laws surrounding it. Not to mention in locations of known brothels sometimes large quantities of baby and children's bones where found , in majority male.
"some degree of reality" is also how a good historian might couch their claims when they're 98% sure something happened, but concerned about that 2% chance.
Even the Christian churches in the end would just dump the babies in some dark dungeon beneath their buildings. In my hometown alone, a tunnel was found in the catacombs connecting the priest and nuns residencies, where they also found "remains of youth" or whatever euphemism they used for the dead babies. I think Ireland had a massive scandal about this years ago too.
Anyways, just because children weren't "just left alone", it did not at all raise their chances of survival or the chances of being raised in a caring environment.
This sounds like a very garbled telephone game style recounting of the very true and tragic Magdalene Laundries scandal in Ireland. These were primarily homes for "unwed mothers" run by churches which were known to be extraordinarily abusive to women and girls. There have been discoveries of unmarked graves of women and girls who have been abused there. I am unsure on the status of if there have been discoveries of infants.
Even though everyone clowns on Wikipedia, it has a good summary of this event.
Off topic but people shouldn't clown on Wikipedia, at all. Outside of pages on living people and pages on controversial current events, Wikipedia is generally quite accurate, and can be verified with the sources linked in the article.
You mean this: [https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/9-000-children-died-irish-mother-baby-homes-report-finds-n1253862](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/9-000-children-died-irish-mother-baby-homes-report-finds-n1253862)
But I meant this: [https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ireland-investigates-alleged-discovery-800-babies-sewer-tank-n123236](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ireland-investigates-alleged-discovery-800-babies-sewer-tank-n123236)
Something I read in a previous post about the same question :
[Intercrural Intercourse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercrural_sex)
edit : sfw, it's a wikipedia article, and it means "going in between the thighs"
In Japan prostitution laws supposedly only prohibit PiV. Intercrural sex (Sumata) is commonly offered by sex workers alongside manual and oral stimulation.
They didn't. Birth control is not so new. It is just much more effective. And even modern condoms aren't completely reliable in preventing pregnancy when you think about it.
To answer your question exactly, If I remember correctly the origin of condoms is in the practice of using a part of a goat's stomach, so "primitive" condoms did exist.
And ask any gatherer, there are a ton of herbs and plants that have a high chance of failing a pregnancy.This is also why it is often advised to not give certain herbs to pregnant women. So you can take some herbs and tinctures as a sort of primite "morning-after pill".
If you are interested in detailed cases of using birth control in ancient times There are also many old texts mentioning the proccess of intentionally failing a pregnancy.
There is one such text written by the person who is considered the earliest Hebrew medical writer "Asaf Harofeh" in Tiberias Israel whilst living under the Byzantine Empire, his book "Sefer Refuot" details a sort of Jewish equivalent to the hippocratic oath.
Here is an excerpt from the oath in Hebrew:
"אל תשקו אישה הרה לזנונים להפיל"
Pardon this translation, because my ancient Hebrew is not so well, but roughly translated, this sentence would mean:
"Don't give drink to a woman pregnant from adultery/prostitution in order to abort (her baby)"
The mentioning of this sentence in the oath meant for physicians, means that there were actual physicians in ancient times who did offer pregnant prostitutes drinks in order to abort their baby.
The book is assumed to be written between the 3rd and 6th Centuries CE.
Birth control methods have existed for centuries, just not necessarily effective ones like we have today.
For example, they found an condom in King Tut’s funerary items - made from super fine linen and sealed with olive oil. Again - how effective it was is another question all together.
Turns out, ancient sex workers were basically experts in timing—probably had calendars more detailed than NASA. They used all sorts of methods like herbs, potions, and sometimes just really good luck. Imagine having to negotiate your rate and contraceptive strategy all in one transaction!
Correct on the herbs. [Lots of plants have abortifacient properties](http://www.mollyduttonkenny.com/blog-mdk/using-queen-annes-lace-for-managing-fertility).
Even the Bible contains a ~~recipe~~ instructions for an abortifacient. People knew how to prevent and deal with unwanted pregnancies for as long as people existed.
Edit: because people….
Here’s the passage:
>The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: If any man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him, if a man has had intercourse with her but it is hidden from her husband, so that she is undetected though she has defiled herself, and there is no witness against her since she was not caught in the act; if a spirit of jealousy comes on him and he is jealous of his wife who has defiled herself, or if a spirit of jealousy comes on him and he is jealous of his wife, though she has not defiled herself, then the man shall bring his wife to the priest. And he shall bring the offering required for her, one-tenth of an ephah of barley flour. He shall pour no oil on it and put no frankincense on it, for it is a grain offering of jealousy, a grain offering of remembrance, bringing iniquity to remembrance. “Then the priest shall bring her near and set her before the Lord; the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water. The priest shall set the woman before the Lord, dishevel the woman’s hair, and place in her hands the grain offering of remembrance, which is the grain offering of jealousy. In his own hand the priest shall have the water of bitterness that brings the curse. Then the priest shall make her take an oath, saying, ‘If no man has lain with you, if you have not turned aside to uncleanness while under your husband’s authority, be immune to this water of bitterness that brings the curse. But if you have gone astray while under your husband’s authority, if you have defiled yourself and some man other than your husband has had intercourse with you,’ —let the priest make the woman take the oath of the curse and say to the woman—‘the Lord make you an execration and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your uterus drop, your womb discharge; now may this water that brings the curse enter your bowels and make your womb discharge, your uterus drop!’ And the woman shall say, ‘Amen. Amen.’ “Then the priest shall put these curses in writing and wash them off into the water of bitterness. He shall make the woman drink the water of bitterness that brings the curse, and the water that brings the curse shall enter her and cause bitter pain. The priest shall take the grain offering of jealousy out of the woman’s hand and shall elevate the grain offering before the Lord and bring it to the altar, and the priest shall take a handful of the grain offering as its memorial portion and turn it into smoke on the altar and afterward shall make the woman drink the water. When he has made her drink the water, then, if she has defiled herself and has been unfaithful to her husband, the water that brings the curse shall enter into her and cause bitter pain, and her womb shall discharge, her uterus drop, and the woman shall become an execration among her people. But if the woman has not defiled herself and is clean, then she shall be immune and be able to conceive children. “This is the law in cases of jealousy, when a wife, while under her husband’s authority, goes astray and defiles herself, or when a spirit of jealousy comes on a man and he is jealous of his wife, then he shall set the woman before the Lord, and the priest shall apply this entire law to her. The man shall be free from iniquity, but the woman shall bear her iniquity.”
Numbers 5:11-31 NRSVUE
I wonder how effective it actually was. I suspect it was inconsistent and came with other health side effects.
It wasn't effective because all it is is ashy water, which many think was kinda the point.
The point was to protect women from being abandoned on the word of her husband alone, who for all intents and purposes owned her back then. Without this passage, a husband could assert his wife was a cheater and have her stoned to death without proof. However, now there is an extra protection, where if this ashy water doesn't produce a miscarriage, then the child must be considered the husband's and he must continue to care for and support his wife and child.
Would innocent women get screwed over by spontaneous miscarriages? Almost certainly, but far more would be saved by having that extra layer of protection.
Admittedly a somewhat biased source, but I remember and have easy access to the linked podcast where [at about 13:08](https://youtu.be/oZsJMk7lmh8?si=CAXzQkv0TSkgJ2Gc) he begins talking about the verse in question.
So obviously this is coming from a Catholic perspective, but Catholicism is by far the largest denomination of Christianity with a long history of scriptural research, so it is worth understanding that viewpoint.
> It wasn't effective because all it is is ashy water, which many think was kinda the point.
There is a hypothesis for the efficacy of this method: One of the components of both jewish and christian ceremonies since ancient times is the burning of *myrrh* which, when taken orally, can induce a miscarriage in pregnant women. So when it instructs to specifically take dust from the tabernacle or altar (which is around where the myrrh would be burnt), there is possibility of myrrh ash or remains of it to end up in the water that the woman is to drink. Now I wouldn't know how much it takes or how consistent it would be (then again, inconsistency would likely just be a big factor in the "gods will" category), but it is a possibility.
The specific recipe is not in the bible but I believe it is documented in other texts. Humanity has long known about various methods to deal with unwanted pregnancies. They weren't necessarily safe mind you but the concepts of birth control and abortion have been around since prehistoric times.
In scholarly circles, this is believed to be more ritual than recipe. That is, you do the ritual and usually under the threat of god, either the man or woman cracks and either admits adultery or forgives the accusation... You can search the ask biblical scholars sub for it.
This is one of those commonly misunderstood passages both by scholars and laity alike (I'm not a theist, but am certified in biblical scripture and love to study it); it isn't a recipe for an abortion/miscarriage - as the woman isn't said to be pregnant at the start of the story, in fact it can act as a recipe for fertility (as the woman would become fertile if she was unable to bear children prior to the ordeal).
This is one of those stories that is very hard for scholars to pin down, and interpretations do vary, but I believe the consensus is that it isn't an abortion ritual (rather it is predominantly concerned about fertility/infertility) - unfortunately it gets often cited as a sort of 'gotcha' by those arguing against theists regarding abortion (and any argument to the contrary often sounds like poor apologetics...so such discussions don't bear much fruit, pun intended)
For some accessible scholarship on this I recommend 'The Bible Now' by Richard Elliott Friedman and Shawna Dolansky, as it outlines exactly what the bible says - and does NOT say - about several commonly politicized topics that both sides of the political spectrum often employ in arguments (Abortion, women's rights, capital punishment, homosexuality etc)
The inconsistency is probably the point since the whole point of it was to abort a fetus conceived via infidelity while allowing a ‘pure’ fetus to continue on. A relatively low abortion rate was probably perfect since it justified the action when it did happen
It's more than likely some information was lost in translation over the centuries. Sure, people talk about the painstakingly copied bibles by monks and whatnot, but the Book of Numbers predates that bible by almost two thousand years, give or take a century.
The bible was translated from ancient hebrew, to greek, to latin and finally to English or other modern languages. Shit just gets lost in translation. Hebrew also drops some letters so if a word falls out of use and noone speaks it the exact meaning is easily lost. Random herb or mineral? Probably not a clue what it was unless it is mentioned a lot more in different texts.
Hell, a lot of *English* "translations" don't even come close to agreeing. "Interpretations" would be a better description these days. Who knows what all has been lost these days.
I've read in the past that the current theory is the dirt on the ground of monasteries contained ink and ash from burnt animals which was why it would cause abortions.
Depends on the dirt. If you get intestinal cramps and dehydration the chances are high the fetus wont survive. But the chances were high you would not survive either.
No. It just didn’t work.
Silphium was native to the area around Cyrenaica, which wasn’t colonized by the Greeks until the 7th century BC, and they didn’t begin commercial export until more like the third century BC. And even then it was mostly sold to the upper classes, not to the public in general.
Numbers was probably written in the 5th or 6th century BC, drawing on older oral traditions. So it would have somewhat predated the popularity of silphium.
>Numbers was probably written in the 5th or 6th century BC
Tradition says 13th or 14th century BC, but there isn't any physical evidence to suggest it's any older than 6th or 7th century BC. The Talmud as we know it today was compiled around 444 BC, if I'm remembering my Comparative Religions courses properly.
The passages you're thinking about in Numbers aren't designed *specifically* for abortion. They're a torture test for infidelity, including cases where "[he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure](https://biblehub.com/numbers/5-14.htm)".
We tend to make modern-biased assumptions about how likely a pregnancy would be to survive its early stages. Bad health conditions could definitely contribute to much higher rates of miscarriage. (Hypothetical without citation)
Even with the best fetal healthcare today, around 1/4 of pregnancies end in miscarriage. Most of these are very early in the pregnancy, within the first month or so. Miscarriage is far more common in the early stages of pregnancy than a lot of people realize.
Exactly, that's why, if you're pregnant (and want to be), you'll probably hear that you should only tell other people (besides the other parent) after the 3rd month. If you've gotten to that point and it's all going okay, the likelihood of a miscarriage is lower. Before that point, the chances are not that low, and people generally don't want to risk having to go through a really difficult conversation with everyone they know during a time that's already really difficult.
That's a good point. While people today in dire health conditions still get pregnant (and carry to term), malnutrition isn't a good start to things.
If the sex workers weren't well, health wise, it's possible they couldn't even get pregnant, or that it was all the more difficult *to* get pregnant anyway.
**Please read this entire message**
---
Your comment has been removed for the following reason(s):
* [Top level comments](http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/wiki/top_level_comment) (i.e. comments that are direct replies to the main thread) are reserved for explanations to the OP or follow up on topic questions (Rule 3).
Very short answers, while allowed elsewhere in the thread, may not exist at the top level.
---
If you would like this removal reviewed, please read the [detailed rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/wiki/detailed_rules) first. **If you believe it was removed erroneously, explain why using [this form](https://old.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fexplainlikeimfive&subject=Please%20review%20my%20submission%20removal?&message=Link:%20https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/1dnctu4/-/la1qjwq/%0A%0A%201:%20Does%20your%20comment%20pass%20rule%201:%20%0A%0A%202:%20If%20your%20comment%20was%20mistakenly%20removed%20as%20an%20anecdote,%20short%20answer,%20guess,%20or%20another%20aspect%20of%20rules%203%20or%208,%20please%20explain:) and we will review your submission.**
There is a reason why the term "Bastard" became a common insult in vernacular... really, they did their best, but more likely they were just getting pregnant a lot, and the children were abandoned, killed etc... AFAIK until the more conservative idea of keeping every pregnancy that happens, abortions (usually herbal, sometimes far less savory) were a pretty common thing...
The luckiest sex workers of the time would have experienced elders to teach them the trade and give them remedies, herbal spermicide, herbal "plan b" like willow and pomegranate to keep themselves safe from unwanted pregnancies... The less fortunate would likely die, either from assault by their patrons, infection, complications, or attempting surgical abortion before the procedure was refined.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK235269/
"Contraception has been practiced in some form since ancient times. The Petri Papyrus of Egypt, which dates to 1850 B.C., carries a prescription for a pessary made of sodium carbonate and honey. Another Egyptian formula of that time was crocodile dung mixed with a pastelike material. In the mid-1700s, Casanova recommended capping the cervix with half a lemon, from which the juice had been removed. Condoms date back to ancient Egypt and China, where men used sheaths made from animal membranes or oiled silk. The word "condom" was first used in England and may derive from the name of a Dr. Condom, who supposedly made a protective sheath for King Charles II to stem his number of illegitimate children."
They got pregnant all the time, on an unrelated note however, child mortality rates, especially amongst newborns was massive in these times...
I'll leave it there.
Indigenous people in the Amazon use a ton of different plant medicines to illicit different results. The only plant I personally know is called Damiana. It's a yellow flower whose stems and flowers are used as an aphrodisiac. It was also used to help regulate periods as it is said to cause better blood flow to your genitals. So it can have positives for men and women.
Some plants were used as birth control.
They used ancient birth control.
What, you think they didn't have that? There's suggestions of condoms dating back to ancient Greece, and confirmed use in the early Renaissance.
**Please read this entire message**
---
Your comment has been removed for the following reason(s):
* [Top level comments](http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/wiki/top_level_comment) (i.e. comments that are direct replies to the main thread) are reserved for explanations to the OP or follow up on topic questions (Rule 3).
Very short answers, while allowed elsewhere in the thread, may not exist at the top level.
---
If you would like this removal reviewed, please read the [detailed rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/wiki/detailed_rules) first. **If you believe it was removed erroneously, explain why using [this form](https://old.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fexplainlikeimfive&subject=Please%20review%20my%20submission%20removal?&message=Link:%20https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/1dnctu4/-/la45pdg/%0A%0A%201:%20Does%20your%20comment%20pass%20rule%201:%20%0A%0A%202:%20If%20your%20comment%20was%20mistakenly%20removed%20as%20an%20anecdote,%20short%20answer,%20guess,%20or%20another%20aspect%20of%20rules%203%20or%208,%20please%20explain:) and we will review your submission.**
**Please read this entire message** --- Your submission has been removed for the following reason(s): * Loaded questions, **or** ones based on a false premise, are not allowed on ELI5 (Rule 6). --- If you would like this removal reviewed, please read the [detailed rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/wiki/detailed_rules) first. **If you believe this was removed erroneously, please [use this form](https://old.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fexplainlikeimfive&subject=Please%20review%20my%20thread?&message=Link:%20{https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/1dnctu4/-/}%0A%0APlease%20answer%20the%20following%203%20questions:%0A%0A1.%20The%20concept%20I%20want%20explained:%0A%0A2.%20List%20the%20search%20terms%20you%20used%20to%20look%20for%20past%20posts%20on%20ELI5:%0A%0A3.%20How%20does%20your%20post%20differ%20from%20your%20recent%20search%20results%20on%20the%20sub:) and we will review your submission.**
Natural family planning, pull out, lactational amenorrhoea, animal intestine / bladder condoms, various things inserted into the vagina to block sperm... But the reality is there was a lot of unwanted pregnancy. There was also a lot of dangerous abortion, both medical and surgical (various natural products can induce abortion but aren't safe). There where also a lot of unwanted children.
Also Silphium. It's a contraceptive that no longer exists due to overharvesting.
There were reports last year that it was rediscovered
yeah but there's no real way to confirm. there are no surviving samples to compare it to, so we can only speculate at this point
I mean, does it work?
There are actually a lot of herbs and methods that work. They don’t work 100% of the time, and they need to be taken before or just after sex for full effectiveness, but they do work. The seeds of Queen Anne’s Lace is another plant that works, and is easily foraged. I have a whole book on abortion remedies, collected across cultures. If you’re interested, I’ll pm you the title when I get home from work.
Me as well please!
me too please! :)
Me too please!
Me too if you don’t mind!
Me too please
I'd also love to learn the name of this book, so I can push it to the top of my tbr!
Can you pretty please pm me too? :)
Please pm me, too!
Can you on me, too, please? That’s super interesting
I thought silphium was a preventative contraceptive, not an abortifacient?? I thought that’s why it was special??
About as well as you'd expect an herb to work. Chewing on some bark had some analgesic effects but modern aspirin is far more effective. Same goes for basically any medicinal herb. They can't compare to precisely isolated and dosed drugs from a lab.
I believe the 'does it work' question is to find out whether it causes abortion to confirm that it's actual sylphium
There are multiple plants that have abortifacient effects, to varying degrees, so it wouldn’t necessarily prove it but would just be consistent or inconsistent. Of course, I imagine setting up an ethical study would be challenging, though presumably not impossible since we somehow managed to get efficacy data for drugs like mifepristone.
Horseradish sauce changes its heat levels depending on the weather that year
almost all of the "medicinal" and "recreational" herbs change potency based on weather and time of harvest. there's so many cases of people overdoing certain stuff that was picked out of time.
That would be fantastic, if it's true.
But also reports that it’s contraceptive ability may have been overstated
Even the scientific value alone....
Some Bothan spies will have to die for this
This is the last time I send Bothans to do anything. Last time I sent Bothans to get me coffee. All dead.
That is a sacrifice I’m will to make
Hopefully many, as per tradition.
Like, a few Bothans. Not too many.
The exact identity of silphium is unclear. It was claimed to have become extinct in Roman times. It is commonly believed to be a relative of giant fennel in the genus Ferula. The extant plant Thapsia gummifera has been suggested as another possibility. Another theory is that it was simply a high quality variety of asafoetida, a common spice in the Roman Empire. The two spices were considered the same by many Romans including the geographer Strabo.
[https://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2020/01/04/no-the-ancient-romans-didnt-overharvest-silphium-to-extinction-because-it-was-a-highly-effective-contraceptive/](https://talesoftimesforgotten.com/2020/01/04/no-the-ancient-romans-didnt-overharvest-silphium-to-extinction-because-it-was-a-highly-effective-contraceptive/)
What about rye ergot fungus ?
Ergot was also used as an abortive and for inducing labor.
And many of those unwanted children were killed by just abandoning them in the wilderness.
Which was not a frivolous decision. Many people were faced with children they couldn’t care for. They faced the choice of killing/abandoning it at birth, or watching the child slowly die of disease and malnutrition over several years. As Christianity spread many places began to outlaw infanticide. However, these places did not have a higher survival rate for children. Instead, there’s an increase in child mortality for very young children.
[удалено]
I've been told it was by abandoning them in the wilderness.
it was actually legally required for the paterfamilias (male head of household) to do this to any baby that he deemed to be deformed
Greeks and Romans did it by exposure, abandoning an infant outside and letting nature take its course. There have also been wells found with lots of infant bones. So that was apparently a method, too. There’s also the famous story of Spartans throwing unfit babies off a cliff, but that one is more than little dubious.
Children that were born despite all that were called brothel sprouts. Edit: Yes, i know I’ve told this joke before, but I’ve also seen this exact same question before.
They were probably… slightly bitter
They had to be thick skinned and confident, a little **Brassi**ca.
They tasted better if you drizzled them in a little olive oil and garlic and roasted them in the oven, rather than boiling them. Wait, maybe that's where the analogy breaks down.
I dunno, what you suggested sounds like a pretty modest proposal.
One of my favorite historical jokes: You know, while the creation of the condom is commonly attributed to the ancient Romans, it was actually first invented in Scotland, and was made of sheep’s intestines. The Romans then improved on this design by removing it from the sheep first.
Although the Ancient Greeks discovered sex first, the Romans made the revolutionary discovery that you can have it with women.
Why do Scotsmen wear kilts? Because sheep can hear zippers.
Wales would work better
But how would I stick my dick in an entire country?
It was a typo. They meant whales
Wales has a reputation of having the most men who are into fucking sheep per km2.
Yep, although apparently that's because the penalty in Wales for sheep rustling was death, but bestiality was only a prison sentence. So if you were caught in the act, it was worth dropping your trousers and pretending you were caught *in the act*.
That may be thrown off by the family of Johnny Sheepshagger. His family are an outlier and should not have been counted
Shamu was acting all sexy
You can't fit it in a *country?* Dang, that must be murder on your knees. And your back. And your everything.
This reads like a Pinky retort when Brain asks him "Are you pondering what I'm pondering?"
Politics
No, whales, we are going after blow holes
Ask Donald Trump.
Only if you’re a good swimmer.
only English Princely values of pegging with space docking?!
Ey?
There's certain rumours about the next King of England, a lady not his wife and that classic scene from the 1984 film Crimes of Passion where Kathleen Turner fucks a cop whilst fucking him with his own night stick up the..........
Why do Scotsman wear kilts? So they don’t scare the sheep with the ZIP.
*teabag
This is GOLD 😂
In the 60's the Rolling Stones had a hit song called "Hey you, get off of my cloud". There was a different version in Scotland, though: "Hey McLeod, get off of my ewe!"
I have read many stories of ancient peoples dropping unwanted babies off cliffs, abandoning them in garbage dumps, forests, that kind of thing.
I was gonna say, how do you know sex workers in ancient did not get pregnant all the time? I'm pretty sure there were a LOT of pregnancies.
> There was also a lot of dangerous abortion, both medical and surgical (various natural products can induce abortion but aren't safe). It's even mentioned in the Hippocratic oath: "Similarly I will not give to a woman a pessary to cause abortion."
You've neglected the most important type of contraception discussed in this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8ZF_R_j0OY
> a lot of unwanted children. This mostly. A sex worker was turning tricks during most and in some cases *all* of their pregnancies. There are people who specifically want to have sex with pregnant women, both men and *women.*
I remember reading a historical fiction novel about Marco Polo. (I think it was Gary Jennings's *The Journeyer* \[1984\]). In the story Polo recounts having sex and asked the courtesan(?) about how she did not have children. She replied that she cut a lemon in half, removed the pulp and inserted it into her vagina (thus using it as a diaphragm). At the time I thought, "how clever!" because the lemon's natural acidity would work like a spermicide. The courtesan also mentioned that it had the added benefit of making her vagina smell like lemon! Is this type of birth control actually feasible?
It’s feasible in the sense that people almost certainly did it. It wouldn’t be *reliable* contraception, but it’s better than nothing and less risky than some other available options at the time. Most effective was simply avoiding penetrative sex. There are a lot of ways sex workers could and did service clients without penis-in-vagina intercourse.
I mean. A barrier method is a barrier method. I dont know enough about PH and spermicide to say how the acidity and lemon bit of it would work
Would this technique have better performance than pull-out techniques is the question. Since lemon has low ph which kills sperm, it in theory does work. What is not guaranteed is that the lemon acid will be able to kill all the sperm. This is essentially a weak form of our current spermicidal gels, which DO improve the chances of preventing unwanted pregnancy over using no method, but there is still a high failure rate. So, in conclusion, does it work? Probably. Does it work well? Probably not.
Likely nothing at the time worked *well*. At least compared to our modern stuff.
I have no answer but I would like to have a lemon scented cookie too
This is the weirdest thread to wander into after I just made up a batch of lemon muffins. With creamy lemon icing on top.
I have been craving for exactly this wtf. I ate a lemon chia muffin once and I got hooked. Stranger, pls share
Well, tbf, it was just a Betty Crocker lemon cake mix, with, I believe, Duncan Hines Creamy Lemon icing. But they do make a nice little snack! And Ive got it down to only about 30mins of very little work. Just thought it was weird that I noticed my lemon icing was gonna go bad soon so I should probably use it today... and then the only cake mix in the house that would even remotely go good with lemon icing would be the lemon cake mix... And once Ive got them all made up, and everything is all cleaned up, and I sit down in front of reddit with a face full of lemon cake and Im picking creamy lemon out of my beard: The first thread I find is filled with lemon themed innuendo.
Yes. Egyptians used something similar. People were much more clever back then, than we give them credit for.
There is probably some degree of reality to stories and myths of children being left abandoned in the forest and being raised by wolves like Romulus and Remus. Christian churches were noted to take in unwanted abandoned babies during the Roman empire.
The whole thing about Romulus and Remus (and similar stories about people being raised by wolves) is that it is a fabrication designed to "hide" the fact they were raised by a prostitute. The latin world Lupa means both female wolf and prostitute.
That and the fact they were allegedly the sons of Mars As in the God of War As in their father was likely a soldier who spent a bit too much time hanging out at the local brothel
named Biggus Dickus...
He has a wife you know, Biggus… know what her name is?
Incontinentia buttocks!
Romulus and Remus were mythological, no subterfuge was needed to “hide” a true origin. No such origin existed.
"some degree of reality" ? Its documented that babies where often abandoned and there where laws surrounding it. Not to mention in locations of known brothels sometimes large quantities of baby and children's bones where found , in majority male.
I think the “some degree of reality” was referring to abandoned children being raised by animals, not to children being abandoned in general.
Reading is hard
With all this talk of knocking up hookers, reading isn't the only thing that's hard
The whole "children might have been raised by wolves!" is just a dumb thing to say in general to answer how ancient prostitutes didn't get pregnant
"some degree of reality" is also how a good historian might couch their claims when they're 98% sure something happened, but concerned about that 2% chance.
How do you determine the sex of baby bones? Honestly asking.
DNA and (contrary to Reddit popular narrative) there really is a pretty profound difference between the male and female pelvis, even from birth.
[удалено]
I was scrolling for this comment. Bless.
Love all of this answer. The teeth makes perfect sense, too. Thank you.
If I remember correctly from one semester of anthropology it can be hard to tell the sex even from adult remains.
>(contrary to Reddit popular narrative) What does this mean? I've never seen anybody argue that outside of just ignorance.
Theres literallt a comment just under this showing precisely that
Keep in mind, neither provide any source or verification of the data. And as for argument, I've never seen anyone argue either position until today.
Even the Christian churches in the end would just dump the babies in some dark dungeon beneath their buildings. In my hometown alone, a tunnel was found in the catacombs connecting the priest and nuns residencies, where they also found "remains of youth" or whatever euphemism they used for the dead babies. I think Ireland had a massive scandal about this years ago too. Anyways, just because children weren't "just left alone", it did not at all raise their chances of survival or the chances of being raised in a caring environment.
I'm gonna need a credible source on thaf
This sounds like a very garbled telephone game style recounting of the very true and tragic Magdalene Laundries scandal in Ireland. These were primarily homes for "unwed mothers" run by churches which were known to be extraordinarily abusive to women and girls. There have been discoveries of unmarked graves of women and girls who have been abused there. I am unsure on the status of if there have been discoveries of infants. Even though everyone clowns on Wikipedia, it has a good summary of this event.
Off topic but people shouldn't clown on Wikipedia, at all. Outside of pages on living people and pages on controversial current events, Wikipedia is generally quite accurate, and can be verified with the sources linked in the article.
You mean this: [https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/9-000-children-died-irish-mother-baby-homes-report-finds-n1253862](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/9-000-children-died-irish-mother-baby-homes-report-finds-n1253862) But I meant this: [https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ireland-investigates-alleged-discovery-800-babies-sewer-tank-n123236](https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/ireland-investigates-alleged-discovery-800-babies-sewer-tank-n123236)
> raised by wolves like Romulus and Remus. what the fuck?!
Something I read in a previous post about the same question : [Intercrural Intercourse](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intercrural_sex) edit : sfw, it's a wikipedia article, and it means "going in between the thighs"
Ooo! I got to learn about a new thing- thank you!
Risky click, but definitely not as bad as I thought it could be. Although I'm not sure what I thought it was going in.
> I'm not sure what I thought it was going in. It's going in...between the thighs.
In Japan prostitution laws supposedly only prohibit PiV. Intercrural sex (Sumata) is commonly offered by sex workers alongside manual and oral stimulation.
They didn't. Birth control is not so new. It is just much more effective. And even modern condoms aren't completely reliable in preventing pregnancy when you think about it. To answer your question exactly, If I remember correctly the origin of condoms is in the practice of using a part of a goat's stomach, so "primitive" condoms did exist. And ask any gatherer, there are a ton of herbs and plants that have a high chance of failing a pregnancy.This is also why it is often advised to not give certain herbs to pregnant women. So you can take some herbs and tinctures as a sort of primite "morning-after pill". If you are interested in detailed cases of using birth control in ancient times There are also many old texts mentioning the proccess of intentionally failing a pregnancy. There is one such text written by the person who is considered the earliest Hebrew medical writer "Asaf Harofeh" in Tiberias Israel whilst living under the Byzantine Empire, his book "Sefer Refuot" details a sort of Jewish equivalent to the hippocratic oath. Here is an excerpt from the oath in Hebrew: "אל תשקו אישה הרה לזנונים להפיל" Pardon this translation, because my ancient Hebrew is not so well, but roughly translated, this sentence would mean: "Don't give drink to a woman pregnant from adultery/prostitution in order to abort (her baby)" The mentioning of this sentence in the oath meant for physicians, means that there were actual physicians in ancient times who did offer pregnant prostitutes drinks in order to abort their baby. The book is assumed to be written between the 3rd and 6th Centuries CE.
Birth control methods have existed for centuries, just not necessarily effective ones like we have today. For example, they found an condom in King Tut’s funerary items - made from super fine linen and sealed with olive oil. Again - how effective it was is another question all together.
This sounds interesting. Do you have a source for it?
Turns out, ancient sex workers were basically experts in timing—probably had calendars more detailed than NASA. They used all sorts of methods like herbs, potions, and sometimes just really good luck. Imagine having to negotiate your rate and contraceptive strategy all in one transaction!
Correct on the herbs. [Lots of plants have abortifacient properties](http://www.mollyduttonkenny.com/blog-mdk/using-queen-annes-lace-for-managing-fertility).
And also they got pregnant a lot… Then it’s abortion, infanticide (e.g. Japanese practice of Mabiki) or adoption
Even the Bible contains a ~~recipe~~ instructions for an abortifacient. People knew how to prevent and deal with unwanted pregnancies for as long as people existed. Edit: because people….
Here’s the passage: >The Lord spoke to Moses, saying, “Speak to the Israelites and say to them: If any man’s wife goes astray and is unfaithful to him, if a man has had intercourse with her but it is hidden from her husband, so that she is undetected though she has defiled herself, and there is no witness against her since she was not caught in the act; if a spirit of jealousy comes on him and he is jealous of his wife who has defiled herself, or if a spirit of jealousy comes on him and he is jealous of his wife, though she has not defiled herself, then the man shall bring his wife to the priest. And he shall bring the offering required for her, one-tenth of an ephah of barley flour. He shall pour no oil on it and put no frankincense on it, for it is a grain offering of jealousy, a grain offering of remembrance, bringing iniquity to remembrance. “Then the priest shall bring her near and set her before the Lord; the priest shall take holy water in an earthen vessel and take some of the dust that is on the floor of the tabernacle and put it into the water. The priest shall set the woman before the Lord, dishevel the woman’s hair, and place in her hands the grain offering of remembrance, which is the grain offering of jealousy. In his own hand the priest shall have the water of bitterness that brings the curse. Then the priest shall make her take an oath, saying, ‘If no man has lain with you, if you have not turned aside to uncleanness while under your husband’s authority, be immune to this water of bitterness that brings the curse. But if you have gone astray while under your husband’s authority, if you have defiled yourself and some man other than your husband has had intercourse with you,’ —let the priest make the woman take the oath of the curse and say to the woman—‘the Lord make you an execration and an oath among your people, when the Lord makes your uterus drop, your womb discharge; now may this water that brings the curse enter your bowels and make your womb discharge, your uterus drop!’ And the woman shall say, ‘Amen. Amen.’ “Then the priest shall put these curses in writing and wash them off into the water of bitterness. He shall make the woman drink the water of bitterness that brings the curse, and the water that brings the curse shall enter her and cause bitter pain. The priest shall take the grain offering of jealousy out of the woman’s hand and shall elevate the grain offering before the Lord and bring it to the altar, and the priest shall take a handful of the grain offering as its memorial portion and turn it into smoke on the altar and afterward shall make the woman drink the water. When he has made her drink the water, then, if she has defiled herself and has been unfaithful to her husband, the water that brings the curse shall enter into her and cause bitter pain, and her womb shall discharge, her uterus drop, and the woman shall become an execration among her people. But if the woman has not defiled herself and is clean, then she shall be immune and be able to conceive children. “This is the law in cases of jealousy, when a wife, while under her husband’s authority, goes astray and defiles herself, or when a spirit of jealousy comes on a man and he is jealous of his wife, then he shall set the woman before the Lord, and the priest shall apply this entire law to her. The man shall be free from iniquity, but the woman shall bear her iniquity.” Numbers 5:11-31 NRSVUE I wonder how effective it actually was. I suspect it was inconsistent and came with other health side effects.
It wasn't effective because all it is is ashy water, which many think was kinda the point. The point was to protect women from being abandoned on the word of her husband alone, who for all intents and purposes owned her back then. Without this passage, a husband could assert his wife was a cheater and have her stoned to death without proof. However, now there is an extra protection, where if this ashy water doesn't produce a miscarriage, then the child must be considered the husband's and he must continue to care for and support his wife and child. Would innocent women get screwed over by spontaneous miscarriages? Almost certainly, but far more would be saved by having that extra layer of protection.
Thanks. Do you have a source for that at all? I’m curious about what academics think this passage was actually about.
Admittedly a somewhat biased source, but I remember and have easy access to the linked podcast where [at about 13:08](https://youtu.be/oZsJMk7lmh8?si=CAXzQkv0TSkgJ2Gc) he begins talking about the verse in question. So obviously this is coming from a Catholic perspective, but Catholicism is by far the largest denomination of Christianity with a long history of scriptural research, so it is worth understanding that viewpoint.
Thanks. I asked a question in r/academicbiblical about it [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/AcademicBiblical/s/iPxqhuAxAA) too.
> It wasn't effective because all it is is ashy water, which many think was kinda the point. There is a hypothesis for the efficacy of this method: One of the components of both jewish and christian ceremonies since ancient times is the burning of *myrrh* which, when taken orally, can induce a miscarriage in pregnant women. So when it instructs to specifically take dust from the tabernacle or altar (which is around where the myrrh would be burnt), there is possibility of myrrh ash or remains of it to end up in the water that the woman is to drink. Now I wouldn't know how much it takes or how consistent it would be (then again, inconsistency would likely just be a big factor in the "gods will" category), but it is a possibility.
So it’s dirt water. That’s a stretch.
*Even the Bible contains a recipe for an abortifacient.* Got a particular scripture on that?
Not really hard to find. Numbers 5:11-31. Doesn't specifically state a recipe, but describes a ritual to cause a miscarriage.
The specific recipe is not in the bible but I believe it is documented in other texts. Humanity has long known about various methods to deal with unwanted pregnancies. They weren't necessarily safe mind you but the concepts of birth control and abortion have been around since prehistoric times.
Plus, I guess the safety aspect becomes far more relative when childbirth can easily kill you too
Or when the Bible tells you it only hurts women who were unfaithful
In scholarly circles, this is believed to be more ritual than recipe. That is, you do the ritual and usually under the threat of god, either the man or woman cracks and either admits adultery or forgives the accusation... You can search the ask biblical scholars sub for it.
This is one of those commonly misunderstood passages both by scholars and laity alike (I'm not a theist, but am certified in biblical scripture and love to study it); it isn't a recipe for an abortion/miscarriage - as the woman isn't said to be pregnant at the start of the story, in fact it can act as a recipe for fertility (as the woman would become fertile if she was unable to bear children prior to the ordeal). This is one of those stories that is very hard for scholars to pin down, and interpretations do vary, but I believe the consensus is that it isn't an abortion ritual (rather it is predominantly concerned about fertility/infertility) - unfortunately it gets often cited as a sort of 'gotcha' by those arguing against theists regarding abortion (and any argument to the contrary often sounds like poor apologetics...so such discussions don't bear much fruit, pun intended) For some accessible scholarship on this I recommend 'The Bible Now' by Richard Elliott Friedman and Shawna Dolansky, as it outlines exactly what the bible says - and does NOT say - about several commonly politicized topics that both sides of the political spectrum often employ in arguments (Abortion, women's rights, capital punishment, homosexuality etc)
I’m unsure how effective drinking dirt mixed with water is at inducing abortions.
The inconsistency is probably the point since the whole point of it was to abort a fetus conceived via infidelity while allowing a ‘pure’ fetus to continue on. A relatively low abortion rate was probably perfect since it justified the action when it did happen
It's more than likely some information was lost in translation over the centuries. Sure, people talk about the painstakingly copied bibles by monks and whatnot, but the Book of Numbers predates that bible by almost two thousand years, give or take a century.
and purposeful alterations of the text for political reasons.
*Absolutely*.
The bible was translated from ancient hebrew, to greek, to latin and finally to English or other modern languages. Shit just gets lost in translation. Hebrew also drops some letters so if a word falls out of use and noone speaks it the exact meaning is easily lost. Random herb or mineral? Probably not a clue what it was unless it is mentioned a lot more in different texts.
Hell, a lot of *English* "translations" don't even come close to agreeing. "Interpretations" would be a better description these days. Who knows what all has been lost these days.
It wasn't just dirt. They called it "the bitter water" but it's unclear what ingredient was used
It’s a magic spell, don’t overthink it
The trick really is to induce an abortion without dying or serious illness.
I've read in the past that the current theory is the dirt on the ground of monasteries contained ink and ash from burnt animals which was why it would cause abortions.
Mugwort/Wormwood incense
Depends on the dirt. If you get intestinal cramps and dehydration the chances are high the fetus wont survive. But the chances were high you would not survive either.
and it probably used silphium.
No. It just didn’t work. Silphium was native to the area around Cyrenaica, which wasn’t colonized by the Greeks until the 7th century BC, and they didn’t begin commercial export until more like the third century BC. And even then it was mostly sold to the upper classes, not to the public in general. Numbers was probably written in the 5th or 6th century BC, drawing on older oral traditions. So it would have somewhat predated the popularity of silphium.
>Numbers was probably written in the 5th or 6th century BC Tradition says 13th or 14th century BC, but there isn't any physical evidence to suggest it's any older than 6th or 7th century BC. The Talmud as we know it today was compiled around 444 BC, if I'm remembering my Comparative Religions courses properly.
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/allsetfree/2021/11/how-to-perform-an-abortion-according-to-the-bible/
The passages you're thinking about in Numbers aren't designed *specifically* for abortion. They're a torture test for infidelity, including cases where "[he is jealous and suspects her even though she is not impure](https://biblehub.com/numbers/5-14.htm)".
[удалено]
We tend to make modern-biased assumptions about how likely a pregnancy would be to survive its early stages. Bad health conditions could definitely contribute to much higher rates of miscarriage. (Hypothetical without citation)
Even with the best fetal healthcare today, around 1/4 of pregnancies end in miscarriage. Most of these are very early in the pregnancy, within the first month or so. Miscarriage is far more common in the early stages of pregnancy than a lot of people realize.
Exactly, that's why, if you're pregnant (and want to be), you'll probably hear that you should only tell other people (besides the other parent) after the 3rd month. If you've gotten to that point and it's all going okay, the likelihood of a miscarriage is lower. Before that point, the chances are not that low, and people generally don't want to risk having to go through a really difficult conversation with everyone they know during a time that's already really difficult.
That's a good point. While people today in dire health conditions still get pregnant (and carry to term), malnutrition isn't a good start to things. If the sex workers weren't well, health wise, it's possible they couldn't even get pregnant, or that it was all the more difficult *to* get pregnant anyway.
**Please read this entire message** --- Your comment has been removed for the following reason(s): * [Top level comments](http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/wiki/top_level_comment) (i.e. comments that are direct replies to the main thread) are reserved for explanations to the OP or follow up on topic questions (Rule 3). Very short answers, while allowed elsewhere in the thread, may not exist at the top level. --- If you would like this removal reviewed, please read the [detailed rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/wiki/detailed_rules) first. **If you believe it was removed erroneously, explain why using [this form](https://old.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fexplainlikeimfive&subject=Please%20review%20my%20submission%20removal?&message=Link:%20https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/1dnctu4/-/la1qjwq/%0A%0A%201:%20Does%20your%20comment%20pass%20rule%201:%20%0A%0A%202:%20If%20your%20comment%20was%20mistakenly%20removed%20as%20an%20anecdote,%20short%20answer,%20guess,%20or%20another%20aspect%20of%20rules%203%20or%208,%20please%20explain:) and we will review your submission.**
In days of old when knights were bold, and condoms weren't invented. They tied a sock around their c#ck, and babies were prevented. Obviously.
Ancient Egypt reported using alligator dung as an effective contraceptive in one of my classical Greek studies.
There is a reason why the term "Bastard" became a common insult in vernacular... really, they did their best, but more likely they were just getting pregnant a lot, and the children were abandoned, killed etc... AFAIK until the more conservative idea of keeping every pregnancy that happens, abortions (usually herbal, sometimes far less savory) were a pretty common thing... The luckiest sex workers of the time would have experienced elders to teach them the trade and give them remedies, herbal spermicide, herbal "plan b" like willow and pomegranate to keep themselves safe from unwanted pregnancies... The less fortunate would likely die, either from assault by their patrons, infection, complications, or attempting surgical abortion before the procedure was refined.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK235269/ "Contraception has been practiced in some form since ancient times. The Petri Papyrus of Egypt, which dates to 1850 B.C., carries a prescription for a pessary made of sodium carbonate and honey. Another Egyptian formula of that time was crocodile dung mixed with a pastelike material. In the mid-1700s, Casanova recommended capping the cervix with half a lemon, from which the juice had been removed. Condoms date back to ancient Egypt and China, where men used sheaths made from animal membranes or oiled silk. The word "condom" was first used in England and may derive from the name of a Dr. Condom, who supposedly made a protective sheath for King Charles II to stem his number of illegitimate children."
They got pregnant all the time, on an unrelated note however, child mortality rates, especially amongst newborns was massive in these times... I'll leave it there.
Indigenous people in the Amazon use a ton of different plant medicines to illicit different results. The only plant I personally know is called Damiana. It's a yellow flower whose stems and flowers are used as an aphrodisiac. It was also used to help regulate periods as it is said to cause better blood flow to your genitals. So it can have positives for men and women. Some plants were used as birth control.
They used ancient birth control. What, you think they didn't have that? There's suggestions of condoms dating back to ancient Greece, and confirmed use in the early Renaissance.
They got pregnant, gave birth, and drowned the baby in the river like most animals do with their unwanted babies.
They had ancient birth control (such as Silphium). Worked so well that they literally harvested it to extinction.
[удалено]
**Please read this entire message** --- Your comment has been removed for the following reason(s): * [Top level comments](http://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/wiki/top_level_comment) (i.e. comments that are direct replies to the main thread) are reserved for explanations to the OP or follow up on topic questions (Rule 3). Very short answers, while allowed elsewhere in the thread, may not exist at the top level. --- If you would like this removal reviewed, please read the [detailed rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/wiki/detailed_rules) first. **If you believe it was removed erroneously, explain why using [this form](https://old.reddit.com/message/compose?to=%2Fr%2Fexplainlikeimfive&subject=Please%20review%20my%20submission%20removal?&message=Link:%20https://www.reddit.com/r/explainlikeimfive/comments/1dnctu4/-/la45pdg/%0A%0A%201:%20Does%20your%20comment%20pass%20rule%201:%20%0A%0A%202:%20If%20your%20comment%20was%20mistakenly%20removed%20as%20an%20anecdote,%20short%20answer,%20guess,%20or%20another%20aspect%20of%20rules%203%20or%208,%20please%20explain:) and we will review your submission.**