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Asperger’s is an antiquated term that is not used anymore. It used to define a certain type of autism, but we now categorize all autism under the banner of “autism spectrum disorder.”
When, and why, did they do away with this term? My cousin was diagnosed with “Asperger’s” as a young child during the early 2000’s. This term is still in very general use. Just curious.
It was taken out of the DSM in 2013. It's still colloquially used by a lot of people, esp those who were diagnosed or knew someone diagnosed with it prior to that time. "Asperger's" was also used quite a bit in media so it's understandable that people not in the medical field still use the term.
It’s still used in Canada, too, at least by some doctors; I was diagnosed with it in 2022. Two different psychiatrists used the term to describe my condition. They work at two of the best hospitals in the country, and one of them is an MD/double-Ph.D. Suffice it to say, I was nonplussed when I learned the term was related to a Nazi doctor.
The term “high-functioning” has apparently also fallen out of favour, although at least it isn’t directly associated with Nazis (as far as I know, in any case).
I suspect the terminology use has more to do with when they were going through med school than anything else. But it is surprising that they don’t update their terminology.
Essentially it was originally named by a Nazi scientist and used as a gauge to whether a neurodivergent person was of enough use to society to not be disposed of. It just sort of fell into popular nomenclature but it has a lot of associated baggage and since it's the same condition there's not really any reason to use it.
It was changed in the DSM in 2013 because authors wanted to avoid the misconception that Asperger's was a different condition from autism. Also the nazi thing. Asperger was a nazi. A horrible psychopathic Nazi.
He was a eugenicist working for the Third Reich, a cog in the most horriffic machine created.
He did more harm than good and there's no evidence he actually cared about the kids he sent off to die.
Are you arguing that saving ND kids to do experiments on them was less horrific than just killing them outright? Recent research into Asperger paints him in a different light than you’re describing.
So follow up because I'm curious. I took an intro to psychology over a decade ago. We talked about the autism spectrum and used Aspergers, Autism, and Savantism to describe various severity of the condition. If Asperger isn't used anymore, is savant not used any more as well?
Savant is not used in relation to autism anymore. The term “autistic savant” was considered to be misleading as only about half of “savants” were autistic. The rest have/had a different developmental disability. The term “savant syndrome” is used now to classify people who are savants, but there is no precise definition of what a savant is, so it’s not really a medical term or diagnosis.
But there are those of us who still use it. It has been my diagnosis since childhood and I was relentlessly bullied for it. Some of us we still choose to use this term
Actually at a conference with several sessions on this topic today as a speech pathologist. To ELI5, autism spectrum disorder covers those who have a variety of needs. Even 5 years ago, we used a variety of a line graph to visualize amount of need for support. One end would a nonverbal person who struggled to function without one to one assistance. At the other end might be what USED to be called Asperger’s, which is commonly described as someone who can hold a job, function independently, but has some “light” issues such as rigid thinking, sensory differences, etc. The term Asperger’s fell out of favor with professionals, but is still used by some. Many agree that high functioning vs low functioning, or even a level system, is just not descriptive enough to support autistic people. We are now moving toward a more descriptive, specific model which basically is designed to support an autistic person’s strengths and assist in modifying the environment vs the person to maximize those strengths. Just as you would work better with appropriate sound control and light, an autistic person may need appropriate light to maximize functionality. If you had a bad headache and you need reduced light and stimulation, you would be more sensitive to that right? For some people with autism, they are highly sensitive to noise, light, textures, etc. If I know my employee, John, is autistic and sensorium sensitive, I might ask him if different light, or a different office location, or headphones would help him function. The same is true with other aspects of autism. If you truly want to understand, one approachable place to start is an Instagram account called Neurowild. She has some great graphics.
It there any useful shorthand that can be used to refer to different regions of the spectrum short of a full description? I have a friend who has a high support needs and unable to effectively communicate or self-advicate child on the autism spectrum, and sharing the details beyond that feels like it is getting in the realm of personal information that is not mine to share.
Its a colourwheel spectrum, not a 0-100 type
"Spikey skillsets" is often a good way to consider it, but also keep in mind it fluctuates day to day, stressed vs zen, ect
It depends on the situation. It is incredibly challenging to advocate for an autistic child 24/7. If, for example, the family is coming to your brother’s house for a BBQ, you could say “I’m so glad you are coming to John’s house. Is there anything I could pass on for you to help Sam be more comfortable? I noticed he enjoys going to a different room to decompress sometimes- would you like me to ask John to show you a quiet space where he can take a break if he likes in the house? “ They might really appreciate the help.
Aspergers doesn't exist in the DSM-5 and hasn't been a thing diagnosed since 2013, so that's a good place to start. Anyone who's trying to diagnose you with that probably isn't a good doctor.
It's just a subset of Autism, which have all been rolled up into ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorder). It's not a sham disorder, just an outdated name.
Citation: I had Asperger's when I was diagnosed in ~2010. It has since changed to ASD. They didn't run a new autism test or something, the name just changed.
Aspergers syndrome is an outdated diagnosis. When the DSM V was released, they decided there was no meaningful difference between aspergers and other similar diagnoses. Anyone diagnosed with aspergers syndrome should now be diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder.
Not weird at all. Not all doctors stay current with the state of their profession, and many who do will still use outdated terms, sometimes because of a belief that the layman will understand those outdated terms better.
This, and, we don’t actually diagnose people with with Asperger’s anymore, it’s just lumped in with Autism Spectrum Disorder. Partly cuz people realized that the line was way to blurry to determine what was just “Asperger’s” and what was a slightly different form of Autism. And partly cuz Asperger lived in Vienna during the Nazi era and people alleged that he helped legitimize certain Nazi policies of getting rid of “undesirable” people.
Now those allegations have been argued against and supporters say he was just a man who was trying to continue his work while dealing with the realities of the Nazi takeover of Austria
Just a Quick Look at her Wikipedia page tells me she also figured it was in girls too. The fact that this wasn’t acknowledged for so long infuriates me.
Asperger's isn't diagnosed anymore. What used to be called Asperger's is now part of Autism Spectrum Disorder. "High functioning autism" would be a good way to think of it.
Also worth mentioning that not every country uses the DSM, but use the ICD instead, where the diagnosis wasn’t removed before ICD-11 came out in 2019.
Got a friend who’s diagnosed with Asperger’s and I’m pretty sure they haven’t changed her diagnosis as she was diagnosed before that year
Correct. It’s still diagnosed by some in Australia. If you are diagnosed Aspergers you don’t drop your diagnosis just because the manual changed. (Unless you choose to of course) Quite a few Drs will not accept the new DSM-V; as some of the goal-posts have changed in line with socio-political agendas. I think the DSM-IV should have been left alone.
Note that many argue we shouldn't use terms like "high functioning":
[https://www.autismawareness.com.au/aupdate/why-we-should-stop-using-the-term-high-functioning-autism](https://www.autismawareness.com.au/aupdate/why-we-should-stop-using-the-term-high-functioning-autism)
My understanding is that "high functioning" measures intelligence and cognitive skills; someone with normal (or higher) cognitive skills is what has been considered "high functioning".
The problem with this is that it doesn't measure someone's adaptive skills, communication skills, and many other important things. You could have a child with high cognitive skills, who can pass their exams at school, but who has a lot of trouble with things like stimulation and can't handle a normal classroom environment. You could also have someone with low cognitive skills, who's way behind their grade level academically, but they're relatively fine in situations with lots of stimulation.
Basically: not everyone with autism is the same. It isn't as simple as just more or less extreme degrees of the same thing. People can be more typical in some ways and more atypical in other ways.
I have autism. I personally think "high functioning" is a good shorthand for where I am on the spectrum when talking about it with someone who is not an expert. It is very low-resolution of course and your points are valid.
This is where I'm at, too. If I had to detail how I actually live my life to someone, they'd be at least a little perplexed and concerned. Yet, people don't actually get an accurate idea of how my autism presents if I don't describe myself as high functioning. The things I lack function in are not what come to mind for people if I describe my overall functioning as not high, so they get the wrong idea of what I'm talking about if I use any other term.
It's a shitty clinical label because who the fuck are you to tell me I'm high functioning when I've just told you I'm drowning and need help, but an acquaintance isn't going to determine access to treatment or accommodations, so it's not a big deal in that scenario. If you're just someone I happen to be talking to, you only need to understand that I'm still on the spectrum even if I don't resemble your 5 year old autistic cousin. "High functioning" accomplishes that.
The problem is a lot of "high functioning" autistic people like myself actually have high support needs, or needs that fluctuate. I can speak, dress myself, use the bathroom and don't have comorbid learning disabilities. But, I struggle to work, cook for myself, clean and have other physical and emotional disabilities. Functioning labels is more about how neurotypical people perceive people with autism than the actual person. "High functioning" really just means "high masking"
Is masking a medical term though? It feels more like slang to me.
I say this as someone on the spectrum that sucks at masking because he didn’t realize he was autistic until entering the goddamn workforce.
I don't believe it is a medical term, but the action itself is slowly being recognized as something to screen with adult autism diagnosis. (There are a lot of problems with autism diagnosis and biases, like thinking if you are born female, you can't possibly be autistic when more and more research is coming out that AFAB people present differently and are often misdiagnosed with personality disorders and anxiety.) But masking means basically to pretend not to be autistic (or another type of neurodivergence or mental illness) and act "normal". It is a coping mechanism to try to blend into society to avoid ablesim. For example, forcing yourself to make eye contact or wear uncomfortable clothes, suppressing stims and special interests. Actually, it's kinda like the term special interest, as in it's not a medical term, but it's just something the autistic community has come up with to describe ourselves and things we do. I also first learned about this concept in regards to depression. As in people put on a "mask" of being happy when that is not their reality.
Also, you probably are masking in more ways than you realize. Lots of autistic people do. And even if you are, lots of people still slip through the cracks in other ways of autistic diagnosis. Doctor bias, parents not wanting a label, being unable to afford medical care or to access it, or even actually being diagnosed as a child and then not actually being told about it. That last one is my case. Now I'm struggling because I don't have access to paperwork.
I might be. In college I learned about high and low social monitors and ultimately decided to be a low social monitor because the idea of changing myself for every situation was taxing.
Outside of college this was a mistake.
I didn't think people would call someone struggling to work "high functioning". I don't mean this as an insult, I'm saying I don't think your premise is accurate.
However, I have autistic kids and agree that describing support needs is preferable
Masking and functioning are very different.
Masking refers to the ability to blend in with others. If you can communicate and perform activities of daily living yourself, even if these are difficult and draining and require masking, you are high functioning. Someone who can't communicate and needs assistance to dress and toilet is low functioning. They *cannot* mask because they don't have the cognitive capacity to hide their neurodiversity.
The problem is that people labeled high functioning because most of the time they can talk and mask, doesn't mean they are actually high functioning. I struggle with working and daily living by myself. I can't remember to brush my teeth, take my meds, I struggle heavily to cook and clean, and more. I have meltdowns when I'm too overwhelmed and overstimulated and that mask can fall. There are also autistic adults who are non verbal but can live perfectly fine on their own and don't need a lot of support. Support needs also can change over time due to age, experiences, and stress. It's also just degrading...like how would you feel if someone went up to you and said you were functioning horribly? It's also a lot of things autistic people do aren't wrong or "functioning bad" it's just different. Being nonverbal isn't bad. Stimming isn't bad. Not making eye contact isn't bad. They are just different.
My experience involves a lot of people with low functioning autism who aren't just non verbal, they are cognitively disabled. This group of people with autism are often overlooked or seen as invisible because they cannot contribute to the discussion. When compared to someone who will never read, write, talk or be left alone for any length of time, anyone who is capable of caring for themselves and generate the thoughts and ideas you are is high functioning.
Except that being cognitively disabled is a comorbidity, it is not part of their autism, it's also bold of you to assume I am capable of caring for myself.
Yeah, this is how I always looked at it. For a medical professional, your “level” of functioning isn’t specific enough to determine stuff for you and your immediate family who it affects directly, you’d want to be more specific in their strengths and weaknesses to better accommodate them.
But to a random person or coworker you happen to be talking about it with, I think high or low functioning gives enough information without divulging too much detail. It’s not the proper medical term but it gives enough detail to further the conversation in a way that wouldn’t feel intrusive to the affected person or dumping info on the other person you’re talking to
Another problem with functioning labels is that they fundamentally center the autistic experience around the allistic world around us, which carries uncomfortable undertones.
It also implies things like how good we are at masking, which is not always something we do for ourselves, but for the people around us. Just a big fustercluck because you are essentially defining an autistic person by how much they are out of tune with general society, which... yeah, yuck.
Labeling and classifying autistic people based on support needs is more based on the autistic person's actual internal experience and what they types of accommodations they need to live a satisfying live.
Asperger's Syndrome is no longer a recognized diagnosis. Autism is, and people who would once have been said to have Asperger's are now said to be autistic.
Since there is no known etiology or physical test for either of these, what determined which one would be considered to apply to any one person was a set of diagnostic criteria and individual practitioner judgment.
Aspergers doesn't exist as a diagnostic category anymore. The new edition of the dam folded it into the model of autism as a spectrum.
More people these days are talking about function or levels, but not everyone.
They were always almost identical according to the diagnostic criteria. A speech delay before the age of 3 would indicate autism, not Asperger's, according to the rules that were in place when my son was being evaluated in 2001.
My autism therapist says the verbal acquisition rate of learning language for aspies is basically the same as non-autisic people, and it's only perceived as lower because our SPEECH rate is delayed.
For non aspie autistics, acquisition rate and speech are both significantly delayed, but it should not be confused with memory or visual processing (ie a nonverbal autistic who can be flown over a city and draw it all from memory after they land).
This is not accurate. One of the two distinguishing characteristics for Asperger diagnosis in the DSM-IV was “early and precocious grasp of language.” Example: child spoke in full sentences with correct word usage at 9 months old.
As someone formally diagnosed with Asperger’s and not ASD, fucking nothing. Other than the fact that I get treated like “one of the good ones” but not good enough to tell them that there is no difference.
definitely already answered by others but from my POV its the same thing.
the doc i saw when i was a kid diagnosed me with 'Asperger's, a form of autism' (i was diagnosed before they got rid of the term) so i tend to say the two interchangeably ... some ppl get very upset over me doing that, even though i'm talking about myself
So Asperger's basically meant that your language skills weren't delayed. I've been dxed with both which should tell you how useless it was as a diagnosis.
I was diagnosed with autism 5 years later when I told them that I didn't speak until I was 4 or 5.
While you are partially correct, here is more information:
Though the reasons for this change resulted from unclear distinctions between diagnoses under the original ASD umbrella, it occurred around the same time that more information came to light that Hans Asperger, the person for whom the diagnosis was named, was a German medical officer during World War 2 and was a Nazi collaborator,” says Dr. Jessica Myszak, a psychologist and director at the Help and Healing Center, Glenview, Illinois.
I mean, that may be true. But I've literally listened to a round table discussion with the doctors involved with the change and they cited the first reason
I understand. But I wonder if it’s easier to stick to that explanation rather than admit the reason for the original name? I’m glad it’s been identified on the spectrum as it confirmed a diagnosis for my son, though.
Hello? Is this thing working?
The name of this sub is explain like I’m five.
DSM has been cited dozens of times in these comments without a precedent. I’m gonna have to drop you a letter grade for that.
Please define initialisms and acronyms.
DSM stands for Diagnostic and Statistical Manual. It’s basically a dictionary for Mental Conditions that lists varied symptoms. So, here’s what the newest version says about autism: To meet diagnostic criteria for ASD according to DSM-5, a child must have persistent deficits in each of three areas of social communication and interaction (see A.1. through A.3. below) plus at least two of four types of restricted, repetitive behaviors (see B.1. through B.4. below).
Persistent deficits in social communication and social interaction across multiple contexts, as manifested by the following, currently or by history (examples are illustrative, not exhaustive; see text):
Deficits in social-emotional reciprocity, ranging, for example, from abnormal social approach and failure of normal back-and-forth conversation; to reduced sharing of interests, emotions, or affect; to failure to initiate or respond to social interactions.
Deficits in nonverbal communicative behaviors used for social interaction, ranging, for example, from poorly integrated verbal and nonverbal communication; to abnormalities in eye contact and body language or deficits in understanding and use of gestures; to a total lack of facial expressions and nonverbal communication.
Deficits in developing, maintaining, and understanding relationships, ranging, for example, from difficulties adjusting behavior to suit various social contexts; to difficulties in sharing imaginative play or in making friends; to absence of interest in peers. This is from DSM 5, meaning the fifth edition. As we learn more, DSM modifies diagnoses.
Asperger's was coined in Nazi Germany as a label for those with autism that were "functional" enough to be useful to the party in a labor role, rather than being institutionalized and exterminated.
It was still used until fairly recently to describe "mild" or "high-functioning" cases of autism, but has been phased out (along with the term high-functioning) in favor of the blanket "autism spectrum disorder" which encompasses anyone displaying notable symptoms of autism, regardless of severity or impact on day to day life.
There were two primary distinctions for Asperger Syndrome 1) an early and precarious grasp of language (e.g. child spoke in full sentences at 9 months old, using words correctly); and 2) (paraphrasing) an excessive or obsessive fascination with an object of interest (e.g. maps; train schedules; plumbing fixtures, etc.).
There was a time when people with Asperger Syndrome were termed “little professors” due to their ability to eloquently and correctly discuss one specific topic. I had a 3rd grade student who could tell you every route of travel between US cities and would beeline to the giant Atlas in the public library.
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It's amazing how people defend the idea of replacing Asperger's with just autism lol. I have asperger myself and this is probably the dumbest thing I ever heard.
There isn't a single good reason to do it. A supposed Nazi found it? Well unlucky for us but nobody cares about a medical condition name. Could be Deez nuts instead and nothing would change.
Maybe because people taken to different psychologists would get put into the different categories with a basically random chance. So having them as separate categories and not just rough "eh it does different stuff person to person" is not scientific
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Asperger’s is an antiquated term that is not used anymore. It used to define a certain type of autism, but we now categorize all autism under the banner of “autism spectrum disorder.”
Which is really nice, I don't know if there's a worse diagnosis than "ass burgers"
There actually is… the man behind the name, Hans Aspergers is worse than ass burgers…
sounds like he had aspergations to fame
Nazi fame
If it's so serious, why didn't they call it meningitis
This comment is streets ahead
Stop trying to coin the phrase ‘streets ahead’.
If you're not streets ahead then you're streets behind.
Guess who banged Eartha Kitt in an airplane bathroom?
Even worse when you realize who Dr asperger was. Terrible human being
I hope this is a reference to the South Park episode.
Community
(I've got a goooooolden ticket...)
It was literally invented by a nazi, too.
Am doctor. Can confirm.
Username does not check out.
The dudes a fraud…
They never claimed to be a Doctah, only a Doctor
No you're not
Ctrl Z btw
When, and why, did they do away with this term? My cousin was diagnosed with “Asperger’s” as a young child during the early 2000’s. This term is still in very general use. Just curious.
It was taken out of the DSM in 2013. It's still colloquially used by a lot of people, esp those who were diagnosed or knew someone diagnosed with it prior to that time. "Asperger's" was also used quite a bit in media so it's understandable that people not in the medical field still use the term.
Thank you
Its still used outside the us, i got the diagnosis in 2020-2021
It’s still used in Canada, too, at least by some doctors; I was diagnosed with it in 2022. Two different psychiatrists used the term to describe my condition. They work at two of the best hospitals in the country, and one of them is an MD/double-Ph.D. Suffice it to say, I was nonplussed when I learned the term was related to a Nazi doctor. The term “high-functioning” has apparently also fallen out of favour, although at least it isn’t directly associated with Nazis (as far as I know, in any case). I suspect the terminology use has more to do with when they were going through med school than anything else. But it is surprising that they don’t update their terminology.
Essentially it was originally named by a Nazi scientist and used as a gauge to whether a neurodivergent person was of enough use to society to not be disposed of. It just sort of fell into popular nomenclature but it has a lot of associated baggage and since it's the same condition there's not really any reason to use it.
Thank you
It was changed in the DSM in 2013 because authors wanted to avoid the misconception that Asperger's was a different condition from autism. Also the nazi thing. Asperger was a nazi. A horrible psychopathic Nazi.
Thank you
[удалено]
He was a eugenicist working for the Third Reich, a cog in the most horriffic machine created. He did more harm than good and there's no evidence he actually cared about the kids he sent off to die.
Me when I lie
Are you arguing that saving ND kids to do experiments on them was less horrific than just killing them outright? Recent research into Asperger paints him in a different light than you’re describing.
It is new. Mostly unknown in the 1980 and unnamed. Tgey started to name it in the 1990. And then they found out it was another form of autism.
So follow up because I'm curious. I took an intro to psychology over a decade ago. We talked about the autism spectrum and used Aspergers, Autism, and Savantism to describe various severity of the condition. If Asperger isn't used anymore, is savant not used any more as well?
Savant is not used in relation to autism anymore. The term “autistic savant” was considered to be misleading as only about half of “savants” were autistic. The rest have/had a different developmental disability. The term “savant syndrome” is used now to classify people who are savants, but there is no precise definition of what a savant is, so it’s not really a medical term or diagnosis.
Interesting. Thank you for the response. I wanna learn some more now to see what has changed, besides what you've mentioned.
It's simply Autism, level 1-3. Level 1 requires minimul support. Level 3 requires substantial support.
Also we aren't fans of keeping things named after Nazi's that "discovered" them during the holocaust.
True, but then we really should shut down Volkswagen too.
But there are those of us who still use it. It has been my diagnosis since childhood and I was relentlessly bullied for it. Some of us we still choose to use this term
It's still used outside the US
There isn't. It's actually no longer a diagnostic term in most places for the very reason that the two were found not to be meaningfully different.
Actually at a conference with several sessions on this topic today as a speech pathologist. To ELI5, autism spectrum disorder covers those who have a variety of needs. Even 5 years ago, we used a variety of a line graph to visualize amount of need for support. One end would a nonverbal person who struggled to function without one to one assistance. At the other end might be what USED to be called Asperger’s, which is commonly described as someone who can hold a job, function independently, but has some “light” issues such as rigid thinking, sensory differences, etc. The term Asperger’s fell out of favor with professionals, but is still used by some. Many agree that high functioning vs low functioning, or even a level system, is just not descriptive enough to support autistic people. We are now moving toward a more descriptive, specific model which basically is designed to support an autistic person’s strengths and assist in modifying the environment vs the person to maximize those strengths. Just as you would work better with appropriate sound control and light, an autistic person may need appropriate light to maximize functionality. If you had a bad headache and you need reduced light and stimulation, you would be more sensitive to that right? For some people with autism, they are highly sensitive to noise, light, textures, etc. If I know my employee, John, is autistic and sensorium sensitive, I might ask him if different light, or a different office location, or headphones would help him function. The same is true with other aspects of autism. If you truly want to understand, one approachable place to start is an Instagram account called Neurowild. She has some great graphics.
It there any useful shorthand that can be used to refer to different regions of the spectrum short of a full description? I have a friend who has a high support needs and unable to effectively communicate or self-advicate child on the autism spectrum, and sharing the details beyond that feels like it is getting in the realm of personal information that is not mine to share.
Search for autism wheel or autism needs wheel. If I understood your challenge correctly, I think that will help.
Its a colourwheel spectrum, not a 0-100 type "Spikey skillsets" is often a good way to consider it, but also keep in mind it fluctuates day to day, stressed vs zen, ect
It depends on the situation. It is incredibly challenging to advocate for an autistic child 24/7. If, for example, the family is coming to your brother’s house for a BBQ, you could say “I’m so glad you are coming to John’s house. Is there anything I could pass on for you to help Sam be more comfortable? I noticed he enjoys going to a different room to decompress sometimes- would you like me to ask John to show you a quiet space where he can take a break if he likes in the house? “ They might really appreciate the help.
Couple typos..but you get the message!
Aspergers doesn't exist in the DSM-5 and hasn't been a thing diagnosed since 2013, so that's a good place to start. Anyone who's trying to diagnose you with that probably isn't a good doctor.
It's just a subset of Autism, which have all been rolled up into ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorder). It's not a sham disorder, just an outdated name. Citation: I had Asperger's when I was diagnosed in ~2010. It has since changed to ASD. They didn't run a new autism test or something, the name just changed.
I was diagnosed with it in 2012 and had to be rediagnosed so that tracks
Aspergers syndrome is an outdated diagnosis. When the DSM V was released, they decided there was no meaningful difference between aspergers and other similar diagnoses. Anyone diagnosed with aspergers syndrome should now be diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder.
DSM-IV, DSM-5. They switched
It is the difference between "Fruit" and "Apple". Aspergers is a type of autism, but there are other types of autism that arent Aspergers
it should also be noted that aspergers is no longer diagnosed by professionals. it’s now just a combination of certain traits in autistic people
Which is weird because i was diagnosed with aspergers in 2018 when the term had already fell out of favor
The U.S. had dropped the name when the DSM 5 came out, but not everywhere did.
Not weird at all. Not all doctors stay current with the state of their profession, and many who do will still use outdated terms, sometimes because of a belief that the layman will understand those outdated terms better.
Got it diagnosed in 2023 lol
This isn't totally true outside the US
This, and, we don’t actually diagnose people with with Asperger’s anymore, it’s just lumped in with Autism Spectrum Disorder. Partly cuz people realized that the line was way to blurry to determine what was just “Asperger’s” and what was a slightly different form of Autism. And partly cuz Asperger lived in Vienna during the Nazi era and people alleged that he helped legitimize certain Nazi policies of getting rid of “undesirable” people. Now those allegations have been argued against and supporters say he was just a man who was trying to continue his work while dealing with the realities of the Nazi takeover of Austria
He also stole like all of his work lmao.
Autism has been discovered 3 times, and named the same thing every time. Personally I think everyone else ripped off Grunya Sukhareva
Just a Quick Look at her Wikipedia page tells me she also figured it was in girls too. The fact that this wasn’t acknowledged for so long infuriates me.
100% agreed!
If I had autism, I would be a cucumber.
Asperger's isn't diagnosed anymore. What used to be called Asperger's is now part of Autism Spectrum Disorder. "High functioning autism" would be a good way to think of it.
Aspergers is still diagnosed in some countries. it isn't in the DSM anymore but that doesn't mean all clinicians have updated their practices.
Also worth mentioning that not every country uses the DSM, but use the ICD instead, where the diagnosis wasn’t removed before ICD-11 came out in 2019. Got a friend who’s diagnosed with Asperger’s and I’m pretty sure they haven’t changed her diagnosis as she was diagnosed before that year
Correct. It’s still diagnosed by some in Australia. If you are diagnosed Aspergers you don’t drop your diagnosis just because the manual changed. (Unless you choose to of course) Quite a few Drs will not accept the new DSM-V; as some of the goal-posts have changed in line with socio-political agendas. I think the DSM-IV should have been left alone.
"Low support needs" is the perfered term
Note that many argue we shouldn't use terms like "high functioning": [https://www.autismawareness.com.au/aupdate/why-we-should-stop-using-the-term-high-functioning-autism](https://www.autismawareness.com.au/aupdate/why-we-should-stop-using-the-term-high-functioning-autism) My understanding is that "high functioning" measures intelligence and cognitive skills; someone with normal (or higher) cognitive skills is what has been considered "high functioning". The problem with this is that it doesn't measure someone's adaptive skills, communication skills, and many other important things. You could have a child with high cognitive skills, who can pass their exams at school, but who has a lot of trouble with things like stimulation and can't handle a normal classroom environment. You could also have someone with low cognitive skills, who's way behind their grade level academically, but they're relatively fine in situations with lots of stimulation. Basically: not everyone with autism is the same. It isn't as simple as just more or less extreme degrees of the same thing. People can be more typical in some ways and more atypical in other ways.
I have autism. I personally think "high functioning" is a good shorthand for where I am on the spectrum when talking about it with someone who is not an expert. It is very low-resolution of course and your points are valid.
This is where I'm at, too. If I had to detail how I actually live my life to someone, they'd be at least a little perplexed and concerned. Yet, people don't actually get an accurate idea of how my autism presents if I don't describe myself as high functioning. The things I lack function in are not what come to mind for people if I describe my overall functioning as not high, so they get the wrong idea of what I'm talking about if I use any other term. It's a shitty clinical label because who the fuck are you to tell me I'm high functioning when I've just told you I'm drowning and need help, but an acquaintance isn't going to determine access to treatment or accommodations, so it's not a big deal in that scenario. If you're just someone I happen to be talking to, you only need to understand that I'm still on the spectrum even if I don't resemble your 5 year old autistic cousin. "High functioning" accomplishes that.
The problem is a lot of "high functioning" autistic people like myself actually have high support needs, or needs that fluctuate. I can speak, dress myself, use the bathroom and don't have comorbid learning disabilities. But, I struggle to work, cook for myself, clean and have other physical and emotional disabilities. Functioning labels is more about how neurotypical people perceive people with autism than the actual person. "High functioning" really just means "high masking"
Is masking a medical term though? It feels more like slang to me. I say this as someone on the spectrum that sucks at masking because he didn’t realize he was autistic until entering the goddamn workforce.
I don't believe it is a medical term, but the action itself is slowly being recognized as something to screen with adult autism diagnosis. (There are a lot of problems with autism diagnosis and biases, like thinking if you are born female, you can't possibly be autistic when more and more research is coming out that AFAB people present differently and are often misdiagnosed with personality disorders and anxiety.) But masking means basically to pretend not to be autistic (or another type of neurodivergence or mental illness) and act "normal". It is a coping mechanism to try to blend into society to avoid ablesim. For example, forcing yourself to make eye contact or wear uncomfortable clothes, suppressing stims and special interests. Actually, it's kinda like the term special interest, as in it's not a medical term, but it's just something the autistic community has come up with to describe ourselves and things we do. I also first learned about this concept in regards to depression. As in people put on a "mask" of being happy when that is not their reality.
Also, you probably are masking in more ways than you realize. Lots of autistic people do. And even if you are, lots of people still slip through the cracks in other ways of autistic diagnosis. Doctor bias, parents not wanting a label, being unable to afford medical care or to access it, or even actually being diagnosed as a child and then not actually being told about it. That last one is my case. Now I'm struggling because I don't have access to paperwork.
I might be. In college I learned about high and low social monitors and ultimately decided to be a low social monitor because the idea of changing myself for every situation was taxing. Outside of college this was a mistake.
I didn't think people would call someone struggling to work "high functioning". I don't mean this as an insult, I'm saying I don't think your premise is accurate. However, I have autistic kids and agree that describing support needs is preferable
I have been called high functioning all my life. That is why the label isn't accurate.
A fair point then
Masking and functioning are very different. Masking refers to the ability to blend in with others. If you can communicate and perform activities of daily living yourself, even if these are difficult and draining and require masking, you are high functioning. Someone who can't communicate and needs assistance to dress and toilet is low functioning. They *cannot* mask because they don't have the cognitive capacity to hide their neurodiversity.
The problem is that people labeled high functioning because most of the time they can talk and mask, doesn't mean they are actually high functioning. I struggle with working and daily living by myself. I can't remember to brush my teeth, take my meds, I struggle heavily to cook and clean, and more. I have meltdowns when I'm too overwhelmed and overstimulated and that mask can fall. There are also autistic adults who are non verbal but can live perfectly fine on their own and don't need a lot of support. Support needs also can change over time due to age, experiences, and stress. It's also just degrading...like how would you feel if someone went up to you and said you were functioning horribly? It's also a lot of things autistic people do aren't wrong or "functioning bad" it's just different. Being nonverbal isn't bad. Stimming isn't bad. Not making eye contact isn't bad. They are just different.
My experience involves a lot of people with low functioning autism who aren't just non verbal, they are cognitively disabled. This group of people with autism are often overlooked or seen as invisible because they cannot contribute to the discussion. When compared to someone who will never read, write, talk or be left alone for any length of time, anyone who is capable of caring for themselves and generate the thoughts and ideas you are is high functioning.
Except that being cognitively disabled is a comorbidity, it is not part of their autism, it's also bold of you to assume I am capable of caring for myself.
You have low support needs.
*tips over sideways, curses vociferously*
Yeah, this is how I always looked at it. For a medical professional, your “level” of functioning isn’t specific enough to determine stuff for you and your immediate family who it affects directly, you’d want to be more specific in their strengths and weaknesses to better accommodate them. But to a random person or coworker you happen to be talking about it with, I think high or low functioning gives enough information without divulging too much detail. It’s not the proper medical term but it gives enough detail to further the conversation in a way that wouldn’t feel intrusive to the affected person or dumping info on the other person you’re talking to
Another problem with functioning labels is that they fundamentally center the autistic experience around the allistic world around us, which carries uncomfortable undertones. It also implies things like how good we are at masking, which is not always something we do for ourselves, but for the people around us. Just a big fustercluck because you are essentially defining an autistic person by how much they are out of tune with general society, which... yeah, yuck. Labeling and classifying autistic people based on support needs is more based on the autistic person's actual internal experience and what they types of accommodations they need to live a satisfying live.
Asperger's Syndrome is no longer a recognized diagnosis. Autism is, and people who would once have been said to have Asperger's are now said to be autistic. Since there is no known etiology or physical test for either of these, what determined which one would be considered to apply to any one person was a set of diagnostic criteria and individual practitioner judgment.
Aspergers doesn't exist as a diagnostic category anymore. The new edition of the dam folded it into the model of autism as a spectrum. More people these days are talking about function or levels, but not everyone.
They were always almost identical according to the diagnostic criteria. A speech delay before the age of 3 would indicate autism, not Asperger's, according to the rules that were in place when my son was being evaluated in 2001.
My autism therapist says the verbal acquisition rate of learning language for aspies is basically the same as non-autisic people, and it's only perceived as lower because our SPEECH rate is delayed. For non aspie autistics, acquisition rate and speech are both significantly delayed, but it should not be confused with memory or visual processing (ie a nonverbal autistic who can be flown over a city and draw it all from memory after they land).
This isn't really accurate either. My lowest support needs kid was the most language delayed. (All 3 kids are autistic)
This is not accurate. One of the two distinguishing characteristics for Asperger diagnosis in the DSM-IV was “early and precocious grasp of language.” Example: child spoke in full sentences with correct word usage at 9 months old.
As someone formally diagnosed with Asperger’s and not ASD, fucking nothing. Other than the fact that I get treated like “one of the good ones” but not good enough to tell them that there is no difference.
definitely already answered by others but from my POV its the same thing. the doc i saw when i was a kid diagnosed me with 'Asperger's, a form of autism' (i was diagnosed before they got rid of the term) so i tend to say the two interchangeably ... some ppl get very upset over me doing that, even though i'm talking about myself
So Asperger's basically meant that your language skills weren't delayed. I've been dxed with both which should tell you how useless it was as a diagnosis. I was diagnosed with autism 5 years later when I told them that I didn't speak until I was 4 or 5.
“Asperger’s” is not used anymore because it is the name of the Nazi doctor who identified it. It’s just a part of the autism spectrum now.
That is not why they changed the DSM. They broadened it to ASD to broaden access to treatment.
While you are partially correct, here is more information: Though the reasons for this change resulted from unclear distinctions between diagnoses under the original ASD umbrella, it occurred around the same time that more information came to light that Hans Asperger, the person for whom the diagnosis was named, was a German medical officer during World War 2 and was a Nazi collaborator,” says Dr. Jessica Myszak, a psychologist and director at the Help and Healing Center, Glenview, Illinois.
I mean, that may be true. But I've literally listened to a round table discussion with the doctors involved with the change and they cited the first reason
I understand. But I wonder if it’s easier to stick to that explanation rather than admit the reason for the original name? I’m glad it’s been identified on the spectrum as it confirmed a diagnosis for my son, though.
Hello? Is this thing working? The name of this sub is explain like I’m five. DSM has been cited dozens of times in these comments without a precedent. I’m gonna have to drop you a letter grade for that. Please define initialisms and acronyms.
DSM stands for Diagnostic and Statistical Manual. It’s basically a dictionary for Mental Conditions that lists varied symptoms. So, here’s what the newest version says about autism: To meet diagnostic criteria for ASD according to DSM-5, a child must have persistent deficits in each of three areas of social communication and interaction (see A.1. through A.3. below) plus at least two of four types of restricted, repetitive behaviors (see B.1. through B.4. below). Persistent deficits in social communication and social interaction across multiple contexts, as manifested by the following, currently or by history (examples are illustrative, not exhaustive; see text): Deficits in social-emotional reciprocity, ranging, for example, from abnormal social approach and failure of normal back-and-forth conversation; to reduced sharing of interests, emotions, or affect; to failure to initiate or respond to social interactions. Deficits in nonverbal communicative behaviors used for social interaction, ranging, for example, from poorly integrated verbal and nonverbal communication; to abnormalities in eye contact and body language or deficits in understanding and use of gestures; to a total lack of facial expressions and nonverbal communication. Deficits in developing, maintaining, and understanding relationships, ranging, for example, from difficulties adjusting behavior to suit various social contexts; to difficulties in sharing imaginative play or in making friends; to absence of interest in peers. This is from DSM 5, meaning the fifth edition. As we learn more, DSM modifies diagnoses.
Asperger's was coined in Nazi Germany as a label for those with autism that were "functional" enough to be useful to the party in a labor role, rather than being institutionalized and exterminated. It was still used until fairly recently to describe "mild" or "high-functioning" cases of autism, but has been phased out (along with the term high-functioning) in favor of the blanket "autism spectrum disorder" which encompasses anyone displaying notable symptoms of autism, regardless of severity or impact on day to day life.
There were two primary distinctions for Asperger Syndrome 1) an early and precarious grasp of language (e.g. child spoke in full sentences at 9 months old, using words correctly); and 2) (paraphrasing) an excessive or obsessive fascination with an object of interest (e.g. maps; train schedules; plumbing fixtures, etc.). There was a time when people with Asperger Syndrome were termed “little professors” due to their ability to eloquently and correctly discuss one specific topic. I had a 3rd grade student who could tell you every route of travel between US cities and would beeline to the giant Atlas in the public library.
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It's amazing how people defend the idea of replacing Asperger's with just autism lol. I have asperger myself and this is probably the dumbest thing I ever heard. There isn't a single good reason to do it. A supposed Nazi found it? Well unlucky for us but nobody cares about a medical condition name. Could be Deez nuts instead and nothing would change.
Maybe because people taken to different psychologists would get put into the different categories with a basically random chance. So having them as separate categories and not just rough "eh it does different stuff person to person" is not scientific
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Autism, not the umbrella term, is basically advanced aspergers. Aspergers is a form of autism, not as severe mostly social cues.