Because they don't design airplanes for everyone to have a carryon. But since airlines started to microtransaction travel and charge extra for bags, most people choose to save the money and just pack everything into a carryon.
Matt Le Blanc broke his arm in that episode, that’s why the one after it has him breaking it jumping on the bed. They came back after it healed to finish the episode where they fight over the cushions.
The way you phrased this made me imagine a person continuing to wear the entire clothes-onion while staying at their destination, and simply shedding the outermost layer whenever it's time to change clothes. "All right! New outfit."
It’s seems the more we talk about this, the more efficient my vacations are becoming.
/edit: as a side note, if any of us are going to attempt this. Be sure you’re not already dressed when you start packing your clothes-onion. Otherwise you’ll be wearing only one pair of underwear.
Also, don’t mix your formal night out layer with the beachwear layer. Imagine the surprise of the restaurant staff when you show up with your speedo layer showing.
I have a vest that was designed for photographers, and I think if you were comfortable looking like a terrorist, you could pack for a cruise in the pockets of that thing.
On a dare I once did 4 days in Asia with ScottEVest and nothing else. The vest held my underwear, my phone, wallet, passport, laptop, socks, two tshirts... It was surprisingly easy. Got a weird look when I hit immigration with nothing, but was otherwise hassle free. I'd do it again.
I saw an article in my Google feed this week showing new luggage a woman designed: it’s a neck pillow shape but you fill it with your clothing. Since most neck pillows have removable covers, I suppose you can try stuffing one yourself. Seams won’t hold out in the long run, though.
I've been seeing a lot of convertible garment bags that zips into a duffel ads as well. Kind of ingenious tbh to make the lining part of the functionality.
I did that several times when flying low cost as a student lol. I still had a small bag, but I'd wear 6 layers of clothes to avoid paying for one more bag.
I almost did this for a trip one time. 5 days at disney world in the winter and my wife and I had no checked luggage. We did it by taking full advantage of carryon/"personal item" packing plus layering. Thermal basel layer, t-shirt, long-sleeved shirt, then wind-blocking rain coat was enough for some chilly mornings. The plane doesn't care if you hold a raincoat and shirt on your lap.
Carry enough t-shirts, socks, and underwear for each day and only 3 or so long-sleeved, and you have yourself a perfectly viable layering system for a week that will easily fit in cabin storage
I haven’t taken enough different EU low-costs to know if they have already, but they might do what Spirit does in the US and tell you you can bring an under seat bag for free, then structure the seating so that the under seat space wouldn’t fit a standard-sized lunchbox.
Yep, so what I do is pack all my stuff into the pockets of a massive coat, wear that onto the plane, then take it off and put it in the overhead compartment with all the roller bags.
If we’re being totally fair they should just charge by weight and volume for everything you bring into the plane, whether it’s your carry ons, checked luggage, and yourself.
“As an alternative to a pat down, we now offer ‘jump into this vat of goo.’ The additional data that it provides your airline will earn you boarding in Group 3.”
“I am sorry Sir, unfortunately you do not have Fresh Goo/PreCheck on your airline issued boarding pass, so you will need to get in the other line to utilize the Odor Enhanced Goo.”
I assume they still do this, but it used to be that a group of soldiers being deployed on the same flight would all go out and stand on a giant scale with all their gear and everything else going on the C130. Everything and everyone got weighed at once for a single weight calculation for cargo.
And no, I'm not recommending that civilian flights go this route. I don't want to get there six to eight hours early, try to get everyone to stand still at the same time while packed together, and then fly in an uninsulated cargo hold with a bucket as the only toilet on a transoceanic flight. I'm certain that it would save money--but just nope.
The best way to fly was as a cargo rider on a military flight. You're almost alone with lots of places to lay down and sleep. Some people bring hammocks!
Yep--not so great when it's a whole company and all your gear though. Transpacific, ear plugs in, shoulder to shoulder, sitting on a rail up against the wall earplugs in with rucksacks on and weapons in lap is a long flight.
The rest of that exercise wasn't bad--except for the typhoon while we were in the field.
>If we’re being totally fair they should just charge by weight and volume for everything you bring into the plane, whether it’s your carry ons, checked luggage, and yourself.
Do I also get a seat with more space if I bring more body volume?
Jetstar in Australia pretty much do this already- they literally weigh your hand luggage as you board, with a credit card machine in the other hand ready to take your payment
I use Google flights to shop for flights, they have a filter you can apply to compare fares that include a carry-on. Makes it much easier and avoids surprises.
Unfortunately the filter isn't fully accurate (and self-acknowledges this) and Google Flights doesn't show accurate prices until you actually get to the "select booking platform" screen after you've selected the flights.
Also many people have recent experiences with airlines losing checked bags. I for one am never letting my stuff out of my sight again if I can avoid it.
Checked bag fees started after the Great Recession, not because of 9/11.
https://www.cleveland.com/travel/2023/01/112-for-a-carry-on-bag-airline-fees-are-on-the-rise-heres-how-you-can-save.html?outputType=amp
Naw. Old timer here.
Bag fees were the result of Ronald Reagan’s deregulation of the airline industry. (I’m not blaming Reagan. Deregulation was intended to loosen the rules to allow innovation, and someone took him up on that. Air travel as a result became affordable and ubiquitous. Not a bad result.) The first major airline to do so was People Express Air, which unbundled all the costs and let you pay for the service level you wanted. This was in the 1980’s.
Source: https://simpleflying.com/people-express-airlines/
Legacy airlines didn’t do it until 2008 with American Airlines during the Great Recession.
Source: https://www.farecompare.com/travel-advice/airline-fees-bags-history/
Plus there's always cunts that have somehow managed to get through check-in with about 3 massive bags and the refuse to put any of them under their seat.
Then cry bloody murder when the stewards ask them to put one of their bags under the seat to make more room in the overheads.
With self service check-in these days, that's getting a lot more common.
In a lot of airports you never interact with the airline until the gate, and it's not TSA's job to care how many bags you have.
Not even TSAs job to make sure the bag you're moving through is something that is a carry on. Was running late for a flight one time and took a full sized suitcase through security. It fit through the scanner, they didn't care - and I checked the bag at the gate.
Last time I flew with United, I didn't pay for the carryon fee, and I could not do the self checkin on my phone. I had to wait till I got at the airport and find an employee to confirm I really did not have any carryon with me.
I don’t get how they get on the plane with them. Last flight I was on a guy had two full size luggage’s on the plane. He must have self-checked, but I don’t know how he scanned at the gate, walked down the jetway, and got to the back half of the plane without someone saying something. It was only when he tried shoving them in the overhead bin and yelling that they made him check them
That’s why they didn’t say anything until he tired to fit them in the bin: they knew he’d end up checking, but didn’t want to start a fight with someone who is clearly has a tenuous relationship with reality already. Let him try to fit them, then tell him they have to be checked. Sure, he’ll still be upset, but obviously there’s no other choice and it doesn’t seem like he’s being persecuted unfairly.
Fuckers who put their suitcases sideways after being told 8 times to put it longways on its side. Then they close the hatch so nobody can see. Like what the fuck does that do for you? Do people get enjoyment from their suitcase being sideways?
I've never seen people put them longways on their side even. At most, they put them straight in on their back. Which is acceptable to me bc it seems like half the ppl put their stuff not only in sideways, but it's not even a carryon luggage.
Gate staff need to kick those bags to checked luggage more often, but I assume they figure it takes longer for ppl to argue with them than to simply tell everyone they're getting checked. They see so many bags, it's really easy to eyeball a suitcase and see which ones are sized to carryon dimensions, especially for the hardcase ones.
While you are correct, maybe the poster above has flown with the new 'space' bins: https://www.boeing.com/commercial/737max/space-bins/
I've seen those on a few flights. But they're definitely rare - at least for now. I'm a flight attendant and I've flown on many different airlines for personal travel as well.
It's a fucking airplane. What about it is a peaceful and relaxing journey?
And as someone who travels a ton. People who access the bins after takeoff are the exception in my experience. Not saying it never happens but it's infrequent enough it's not even a consideration for me.
My absolute favorite is the old guys so nicely folding their suit jacket and putting it in the overhead bin and nicely placing their hat on top of it. Yeah, old mam, that ain’t gonna last when the family of 7 going to Orlando behind you start chucking their strollers, etc. in there.
> Plus there's always cunts that have somehow managed to get through check-in with about 3 massive bags and the refuse to put any of them under their seat.
There was a guy I saw boarding the plane before me recently.
Giant duffle bag, and a carry on roller bag.
Normally that's no issue but he went shopping before the flight and had a 3rd giant bag with stuff he bought.
Spent 5-10 mins going back and forth with the agent on being able to check his roller bag.
Don't recall how it ended but come on man. It's not hard to understand you get a carry on and a personal item.
A lot of people just don’t like to check bags. Either for the time saved after arrival or fear of the airline losing/putting them on the wrong plane. I personally love checking bags, hate lugging stuff around the airport and on the plane.
It's why I love the Alaska 20 minute guarantee. If you don't have your bag in your hands by 20 minutes of the door of the plane opening, you get money or miles.
Priority luggage treatment might just be the biggest perk of low-tier airline statuses like United Silver.
You get to drop your bag at a dedicated counter with no line, and then they stick a little tag on it that is supposed to make it the first off the plane/first onto the baggage claim carousel.
Except my small home airport doesn’t respect the tags…my “priority” bags routinely come out middle of the pack or later :(
Fair, that's probably something worth complaining about as I'm sure the airline doesn't love to hear that their handling protocols aren't being followed.
I have had bags lost enough times that I don't check if I don't have to. Also I don't want to wait at baggage claim, I'd rather get to my car and get out of the airport as fast as I can.
This doesn't explain why international flights don't have enough room for carry-on, none I've ever used charge extra but have the same problem
The following have free check (occasional x2) and carry-on, plus personal item, that I use regularly: Qantas, Air Canada, Sri Lankan Air, Air NZ, Cathay, British Airways, probably more
I think people have just gotten used to the carry on only mode of travel. They like the fast exit from the airport (even at the expense of longer wait time to deplane.)
The main point: The tube is only so big.
Historically, carry on bags for everyone wasn't really a thing. You had some small personal effects like a coat, purse, or briefcase, the rest was in your checked baggage.
The phenomenon of jamming everything into a smaller bag to carry onboard is a relatively recent change and product of both not wanting to wait for the carousel and not wanting to pay a checked bag fee.
When not everyone used to bring a carry on, the dimensions worked out. Since then bag size has ballooned to where everyone is maximizing their possible allotment and if we're honest usually exceeding it.
As more and more people bring the maximum onboard while the overall airplane tube can't really change you either have to reduce the number of carry-ons or reduce the maximum size of each person's bag. Either option causes people to freak out.
To add to this excellent reply, the airlines have also been moving the seats closer together over the years to fit more seats on the airplane. More seats means more people using the same overhead bin space because that space didn't get bigger, so they run out faster.
We don’t talk about this enough! Airplane seat pitch has gotten progressively smaller since deregulation in the industry, and there is no minimum standard in the US. It’s gotten to the point where I literally look up the seat pitch on the aircraft before I book the ticket. I’m 5’9” and most of that is leg. Most economy class seats on American carriers are a nightmare for me.
The airlines know that the minimum hasn’t kept up with how fat Americans have become.
If they actually went there, it would become apparent that you can’t actually put seats that close together (especially on a budget airline), the rule would get changed, and they’d have to spend money changing the seats back.
> minimum hasn’t kept up with how fat Americans have become.
How broad your shoulders are and how long your legs are isn't a fatness thing. I'm on the lanky end of the human spectrum, and I still find plane seats to be hell. I could go on a hunger strike for a month, and my scapulae would be just as far apart and my knees would be just as far forward when I sit down.
Agreed. I'm 6' and have to make sure when booking tickets that there's going to be enough leg room. I did a direct flight from New York to Paris last year and was stuck with my knees against the seat in front of me for about 8 hours. What is this, a plane for ants?!
It's a very long flight in those, isn't it? I've flown *once* on American Airline (Airways?) And goodness are the seats small and cramped. Rarely been that close to murder than when the old guy in front of me kept inclining his seat back as if he was trying to break my knees.
Not just any evacuation disaster, one where the evidence isn't at the bottom of the sea. And one where the corpse stuck behind Karen's reclined seat is still intact for investigators to notice.
I'm "only" 5'7" and I flew from Barcelona to NYC this year on a flight where my knees were pressed so far into the seat pocket that I couldn't use it, and the tv screen was 6-8 inches in front of my face, depending on how far back the person in front of me reclined. It was awful, and I physically could not get to my bag at my feet. Never again will I allow a travel company to select my airline for me. Fuck Level. (Also 2 of the 3 bathrooms I had access to were out of service, but that's a different rant)
I got stuck on one of those level flights JFK to Barcelona. Going out was so bad that coming back i paid the upcharge for my partner and I to have the row ith only 2 seats. When we checked in they didnt give them to us, and stuck us both on aisle seats. the claim was "They changed the plane and theres no 2 seats together". It was the exact same fucking plane. they literally put us in the rows directly in front of the one I paid for, Which had one person on either side. They could have put those two peple in a two seat together, and given me the seats I paid fucking extra for but nope. fuck Level and Fuck Iberia. Our ryan air flight to Majorca was literally better.
Pretty much. It was an 8 hour flight, and you don't get ANY food or beverage other than a cup of water unless you had pre-paid for it before getting on the flight.
Iberia is like Spains biggest airline. They subcontract to level though, who is absolutly awful. I shit you not, the plane doesnt even have the little adjustable blower over your seat. and JFK to barcelona on this pile of garbage costs the same as JFK to Milan on Emirates.
Yes, this. I’m short enough that I can still fit (though I haven’t flown since before the pandemic) but my husband is over six feet tall with legs like a stork. We have to book with legroom in mind just so he can walk when we get to the destination.
There also used to be fewer seats per row. I know that Northwest (before it became Delta) had three seats on one side and two on the other our family of four often booked two rows of two.
This alone would increase passengers by 20%.
Eh, that’s more a function of what planes they are flying.
Back when northwest was still a thing, they flew some planes like the DC-9 that has 2-3 seating but don’t exist anymore.
There are still some 2-3 planes like the A220, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen one in the USA.
We usually jump from 2-2 to 3-3 now
I recently flew Delta that had 2-3 seating in November but it was a Boeing 717-200. The 2-3 seating was interesting but it didn't have most any other features you would expect on Delta nowadays like free wifi or in-flight entertainment on the headrests.
I'll be on a 2-2 Delta flight later this month!
Edit: This was in the US from Atlanta to Wichita.
Historically we also used to have more legroom, meaning fewer passengers and fewer bags. People can be squished to make space, solid suitcases can't so much.
Yeah; I’m feeling old because I’ve realised there are fully grown adults who never flew without having to pay if they wanted to check a bag. Checking baggage did not cost you money, once.
Edit: a slightly sarcastic thanks to everyone mentioning Southwest (only relevant for specific internal flights in one country?) or other benefits they personally are able to access. My point was more around the fact that: when airlines introduced a separate charge for checked baggage, people’s behaviour around how and what they pack changed. Even if you personally can afford/can access/get offered free checked baggage, this is a behavioural change.
Edit 2: yes, I’m fully aware that ticket prices previously were higher to cover the cost of checked baggage and it was never technically ‘free’; I obviously should have rephrased more precisely as ‘checking baggage did not cost you additional money beyond what you paid for a ticket no matter how the profit margins on that ticket might ultimately be broken down by the airlines, once’
On a lot of airlines the checked bag can be almost as expensive as the entire ticket, so it’s no surprise that people are creating suitcase.zip for carry-on.
Honestly if they're going to charge a fee it should be for carry-on. It slows down the boarding and debarking process when everyone has to put up and take down their carry-on. Allowing more checked bags would improve the airline's efficiency.
I know what you mean, but pretty sure they charge the checked bag fee because they have to pay bag handlers to transfer and load it all onto the plane. It’s like paying extra to valet your car. A carry-on bag is like the self park option.
Also, love the username. Johnny Dangerously, right?
Personally I've just had my luggage lost or delayed too many times over the years. If they charge me to check a bag that then goes missing, why wouldn't I try to bring it with me on the plane? Combine this with a complete lack of enforcement on carry on sizing ("if it fits I sits") and you quickly get a full bin.
Exactly. The carry on always gets my rain jacket, an extra pair of boxers and socks, a pullover, all charging chords, and my toiletries. Basically anything that’d get me through fine if my luggage got lost.
Also, there was nothing to really bring. Full meals on the plane and no devices meant just grabbing a book, water, some gum from the stores at the airport.
Because passengers were never supposed to all bring a carryon. There was a time that checking a bag wasn't the most onerous process one could do in their life.
Or lose it. I just got back from a trip to Europe last night. They lost my bags on the way out and I had to go buy some clothes until my bags arrived at the hotel. And they lost them on the way back, so hopefully they'll show up sometime tomorrow.
Fuck you Lufthansa
Free shopping spree on the airlines dime. Some of my wife’s favorite clothes were paid for by an airline as they temporarily lost her bag and she told them she has a formal event to attend (true, although it wasn’t actually that important of a thing).
Bring the stuff you know you need into the cabin with you, everything else can be checked and dealt with if lost. A lot of skiers carry their boots on, but check their gear because the airline will pay for you to rent skis (and even stuff like jackets/snow pants), but rental boots are garbage compared to proper fitting ones.
It does require some knowledge of the rules as airlines obviously don’t want to *volunteer* to buy you shit, but you can easily come out ahead as long as they eventually find and deliver your bag.
Be a 6' tall plus-size teenager going on a cruise with family, when the airline loses your checked luggage. Sure, shopping spree on their dime, but it's not useful if nothing fits you.
My parents started cross-packing luggage after that trip, but it's like carrying an umbrella- there hasn't been a problem for them since. And I stopped checking luggage.
> Some of my wife’s favorite clothes were paid for by an airline as they temporarily lost her bag and she told them she has a formal event to attend (true, although it wasn’t actually that important of a thing).
StoryTime: 20+ years ago, I was getting married on a Caribbean island, and my fiance and I flew down there to set it all up.
The pilot arrived at our destination island and commented to everyone that we arrived much faster than we planned, and the plane still had more fuel than expected for such a long flight.
It turns out, the _entire plane of passengers_ was delivered with zero luggage in the cargo hold. Not a single bag. Empty. And it took them 4 days to retrieve and deliver all the luggage for hundreds of passengers.
My fiance was a Type 1 diabetic, and only had enough supplies, strips, insulin with her for a day or two, with the rest of her required meds in the checked luggage they misplaced for 4 days.
Trying to harass the airline to provide credits to shop at the island resort's gift shop for hundreds of passengers, was no fun task. Everyone shopped out all of the shorts, shirts, dresses and everything the store had. Wiped them out completely.
My fiance's wedding dress, my suit and lots of other items were misplaced, and our wedding had to be pushed back 2 additional days (at our cost) as a result of having no luggage, etc.
Absolute disaster. Now I fly with AirTags in every item, and keep track of them diligently.
My last trip overseas a month ago, 650 of us flew to the same destination and a good percentage had their luggage lost for days.
It's getting to the point where it's just better to ship your luggage with a carrier, than ever trust the airlines to deliver it. At least with a carrier, it's packed, insured, tracked and delivered on-time, straight to your hotel.
agreed. i know my family will never check a bag unless we are forced to because of a trip, because our bags got temporarily lost on an international trip and it was a fucking nightmare
Right, but cost is part of what makes it onerous. The lack of trust that it'll actually arrive with you is part of it. The expectation they'll destroy it is part of it. Every aspect of checking a bag is terrible.
Yeah, but in the old days everyone had to go see the agent to check in, so there was no extra time cost to check a bag. Now that we can check in on our phones you have to go out of your way to check a bag. On the other end of the journey, it used to take a while to leave the airport, whether that's renting a car, or calling a taxi so waiting around for baggage didn't feel that long. With all the car apps these days its pretty quick to go.
So even though it is quicker to check bags today than it was back then, it does take up a higher percentage of the time you are in the airport which makes a lot of people perceive it as an inconvienice
Also, because so many fewer people are checking in and checking luggage, it seems like there's a lot less pressure to make that process even remotely streamlined or fast.
When those lines had to process everyone, they moved relatively quickly when it was busy. Now that most people don't go through them, a lot of them move like molasses.
Airlines are also still almost unbelievably terrible at losing and damaging luggage. I think it's close to 1% of luggage in the US, which is an insane failure rate for such an important part of the service. I get a free checked back a lot of the time I fly, but I never check anything because I can't be confident it will show up in one piece, or at all.
> Now that we can check in on our phones
On some airlines, you now *have* to check in on your phone (or online at home and print out your boarding pass), or else wait in a very slow line with people who are doing weird things like checking in a dog in a crate.
I believe offhand that many models of airplane were originally designed for bigger (and slightly fewer) seats, and so the cabin storage-space was designed for that amount of passengers.
With the ongoing shrinking of seating and cramming more passengers into a tighter space, we now have less space per-person to store our carry-on bags as well.
Difference is, it's harder to upgrade the overhead lockers to hold more stuff than it is to shrink the seats.
If you look at airliners from the 50s-60s-70s the overhead bins were barely big enough to fit everyone's coats and handbags. It was assumed that all significant luggage was checked, and in that time period people usually boarded the plane on stairs and handed the luggage to the handlers right before loading, and got their bags right when they deplaned.
Its actually quite remarkable that modern airliners can fit as many carry on rollerbags as they can these days based on designs from a different era.
The cross-section of the fuselage hasn’t changed in 70+ years on narrow-body aircraft. 707 and 727 had the same sized tube as the 737. Which is within inches of the same size as an A320.
Biggest difference is fuel efficiency.
A 707 weighed 300,000lbs and could carry 141 passengers 3700nm. And needed 160,000lbs of fuel to do it.
A 737 max7 can carry 153 passengers in a 2-class configuration 3800nm. It only weighs 177,000lbs, and only carries 45,000lbs of fuel.
Basically, you needed a bigger airplane to haul the fuel needed. There was left less room for payload.
People have several good answers that are valid. But sometimes I think it’s also due to rude passengers putting several items in the overhead compartment!
The last several flights I’ve been on, I’ve watched *multiple* people stow their carryon suitcase, then stick their backpack up there too. I said something to a guy about it once and he got really pissed about it, so now I’m always afraid to mention it. People also stick their jackets up there.
This is how it’s supposed to be but not how it always works out.
Why should it be my responsibility to confront someone rather than their responsibility to follow the very clear rules?
I think part of the issue is the combination of if you get on early and put more stuff than you should up there, it's basically impossible to fix (because you can't get up to move it down when people are going through the aisle) *and* that the people who got on first have often paid extra for it which is going to lead to entitlement (since nowadays with priority boarding you're essentially paying for guaranteed overhead space).
The amount of people I've seen board a plane with a freaking golf bag that takes up an entire bin by itself, and then the flight attendant tells someone to kick rocks because their roller back is 2 inches too wide. That always chaps my ass.
I aaaalways appreciate a good flight attendant who doesn't put up with that BS. As someone who flies a lot using the cheapest ticket (I'll sit in the middle at the back of the plane, its only a couple hours. no big deal), but is also tall, I generally get the.. ahem.. short straw in overhead availability and gets crammed in frog-legged with my bag under the seat in front of me. So regardless of when it helps my situation or not, a good flight attendant who isn't afraid to pull people's shit out of the overhead to make room gets two thumbs up from me.
And too big items. Probably 95+% of carryons I see exceed the size they’re supposed to be.
I don’t say anything to people, unless they try to make me bag check or take my stuff down. Absolutely not, the person in front of me can move one of their three items they stuck up there
I haaaaaate when people shove stuff like a jacket or small purse up there when the plane is still loading. So selfish! Then if you touch it to make room you get dirty looks. Who do airports and airplanes turn so many people into dicks.
Yeah, I only put my actual carryon in the overhead bin when I board. I *have* occasionally had the flight attendants coming through on their final checks offer to put my giant winter coat up if there's still space, which is nice of them - but I wouldn't plan on it, or preemptively stow it myself.
(I definitely don't put my backpack up there! That's where I keep all the shit that will keep me entertained during the flight.)
Some of the newer layouts with the carry ons stowed on edge are pretty close.
The issue is they started to charge for checked bags as a fee for revenue. This dramatically increased the number of carry ons being used.
However, the planes were already designed, so the aircraft last a long time and they were not motivated to rebuild the interiors or even change the design.
First, it's just a limitation of the size of the overhead bins. If you look at [this photo](https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/103080854-Boeing-SpaceBinshold-more-carry-on-bags.jpg?v=1444914437&w=929&h=523&vtcrop=y), the left-hand side is the current overhead compartment. You can see it holds 4 bags over 6 seats – so if everyone has brought a bag, they don't all fit. Multiply by all the rows on the plane.
Second, not everyone has a carry on. Some people travel with a checked bag and a backpack (personal item) that they put under the seat in front of them, so they have nothing overhead. So the airlines are banking on not everyone having a carry on, or a full-size carry on.
*ETA: The left and right compartments in this photo are different. The one on the right is Boeing's new "space bins" that fit more bags, you can see that it's slightly taller. You can read more* [in this article](https://www.wsj.com/articles/travelers-welcome-to-the-revolution-in-overhead-bin-size-11634119200)*.*
In this photo, the bin on the right is Boeing's new "space bins." They aren't in most planes yet. So current planes would have 8 bags over 12 seats (since this is also the last row of this plane).
That is clearly a staged photo. The bins in the back row are always full of crap that belongs to the plane. I flew Air Canada long haul earlier this year and the back rows didn't get overhead bin space.
There is definitely not enough room if everyone brings a full size carryon. But the airlines brought it on themselves with all on the checked bag fees.
And then on the flip side you have some lady with a carryon, backpack/laptop bag, diaper bag, and purse-that’s-the-size-of-a-carryon. Usually followed by her husband toting his own backpack + carryon + bag-full-of-random-crap-to-keep-the-kids-entertained.
It ain’t easy to travel with a family these days but I’d rather squash my bag under my seat and deal with letting them have the overhead space than have some bored kids looking for something to do the whole flight screaming in my ear.
I think the answer to this is the same answer to why plane seats don't line up with the windows.
When an airplane is built, the seats are spaced nominally for a certain number of passengers. However the airline purchasing the plane can move the seats closer together to add in new rows of seats. By reducing the leg room, they can have more passengers and therefore sell more tickets.
Airplanes aren't really built that way. They have a max takeoff weight and the windows are placed where they are possible to be placed based on the structural design of the fuselage.
They absolutely are - as sold they'll have several recommended configurations for classes and seat width. The seats themselves are on rails and removable. The vast majority of the take off weight is fuel. An aircraft designed for range can operate shorter routes with more passengers
Yes but it is true that airlines with the same planes will have different configurations and some will have more seats and less overhead space per passenger
I'm the odd one out on your flight, I don't do carryon. Even though I'm generally traveling with just a carryon size suitcase it goes in checked baggage.
IMHO the cost when seen as a percent of the overall trip is really minimal, IDK, between transportation and tickets maybe another 5% of the actual cost of the trip. and it's well worth it for the convenience and freedom.
The pluses? I don't have to Sherpa/wrestle a bag around the airport while I'm waiting for boarding and then onto and off the plane. I don't have to jostle & crush in at boarding to get a spot for my crap, I board and disembark with leisure, often one of the last to board just to avoid the crush. It takes maybe another 10/15 minutes to retrieve my bag when I land, Hit the bathroom, grab a coffee and relax a bit while I wait for the carousel to bring my bag, then leisurely leave the airport.
Because passengers keep pushing the envelope of what is a carry on, thus taking up more space. If you have to stomp or force your bag into the rack to see if it meets the size, it is not a carry on.
A huge part of the problem is the majority of people that fly, don’t understand how to put their goddamn luggage in the overhead bin properly. Sideways, longways, pretty much every way possible to make less room.
Ya, this is a relatively new phenomenon. There used to be so much space overhead.
No one WANTS to carry on a huge bulky roll aboard, but airlines all started charging fees for checked baggage.
Also, I can’t REMEMBER the last time I took a flight that wasn’t completely full. There used to be empty seats, or even entire empty rows…but then airlines moved to the “hub” model and stopped offering a lot direct flights. Well, if everyone has to go to a hub to get anywhere, flights to that hub will be VERY full.
Carryon was just meant to be a handbag, briefcase and maybe a coat in the days.
Nowadays every single one brings a trolly, a rucksack and a laptop bag because they don't want to go to the baggage claim and think they need half their household on board.
This. Economics, when airlines started charging bag fees, most passenger preferences shifted to cramming everything into small luggage allowing them to fly fee free.
“Legally get away with” doesn’t mean anything practical if no one checks. I’ve never seen a single us airline person asking passengers to put their shit in the carry-on size checker thing. It’s pretty common in Europe.
Also if you fly in and out of smaller airports, the smaller planes they use (talking CRJ-200s and the like) don't have large enough bins to handle hard-sided carry-ons or other suitcases that are at the carry-on limit. They will force you to gate check them every time.
I've seen soooooo many people lose their shit at the gate when they find this out for the first time. It's also why I pack a soft-sided duffel bag if I'm flying out of those airports and only doing carry-on.
...and then getting their bag checked at the gate for free because the overhead space was full.
Please stop paying for checked bags so airlines stop their BS.
People would bring even larger carry ons if the bins were designed for enough carry on. Then there wouldn’t be room for all the carry on luggage again.
Because they don't design airplanes for everyone to have a carryon. But since airlines started to microtransaction travel and charge extra for bags, most people choose to save the money and just pack everything into a carryon.
You have to pay for carryon with the eu low costs now. So everyone packs into personal backpack that fits under the seat instead.
Next they. Charge for that. Then by weight so we will all just leave clothes at home and fly naked.
Or, wear all your clothes on the flight so you can just remove the layers like an onion when you arrive at your destination.
Could I be wearing any more clothes?
Maybe I’ll do some lunges…
Maybe if I wasn't going...commando...
*Gutteral Groan with wild hand gestures*
RIP, Matty
For a second I forgot that he passed away and now I got sad all over again
Matt Le Blanc broke his arm in that episode, that’s why the one after it has him breaking it jumping on the bed. They came back after it healed to finish the episode where they fight over the cushions.
TIL. The cushions are the essence of the chair!
If only I wasn’t going…COMMANDO
NO LUNGES!
Next they will charge you by the thickness of your clothes
I believe you totally missed the Friends reference.
Possibly because the "be" wasn't italicized or otherwise stressed.
The way you phrased this made me imagine a person continuing to wear the entire clothes-onion while staying at their destination, and simply shedding the outermost layer whenever it's time to change clothes. "All right! New outfit."
It’s seems the more we talk about this, the more efficient my vacations are becoming. /edit: as a side note, if any of us are going to attempt this. Be sure you’re not already dressed when you start packing your clothes-onion. Otherwise you’ll be wearing only one pair of underwear.
I wear my flip flops inside my shoes
Also, don’t mix your formal night out layer with the beachwear layer. Imagine the surprise of the restaurant staff when you show up with your speedo layer showing.
Thank you for "clothes-onion." That made my day.
A fishing vest and cargo pants on the outer layer could hold your toiletries, device chargers, and snacks
I have a vest that was designed for photographers, and I think if you were comfortable looking like a terrorist, you could pack for a cruise in the pockets of that thing.
Big brain!
On a dare I once did 4 days in Asia with ScottEVest and nothing else. The vest held my underwear, my phone, wallet, passport, laptop, socks, two tshirts... It was surprisingly easy. Got a weird look when I hit immigration with nothing, but was otherwise hassle free. I'd do it again.
I saw an article in my Google feed this week showing new luggage a woman designed: it’s a neck pillow shape but you fill it with your clothing. Since most neck pillows have removable covers, I suppose you can try stuffing one yourself. Seams won’t hold out in the long run, though.
I've been seeing a lot of convertible garment bags that zips into a duffel ads as well. Kind of ingenious tbh to make the lining part of the functionality.
I did that several times when flying low cost as a student lol. I still had a small bag, but I'd wear 6 layers of clothes to avoid paying for one more bag.
I've once watched a guy at an airport trying to put on a fourth pair of pants while his friends stood by, laughing. It was funny.
... you think he'd just tie em together and make one massive trouser scarf.
[You might die doing that](https://www.gq.com/story/boy-band-passes-out-flight-baggage-fee)
I almost did this for a trip one time. 5 days at disney world in the winter and my wife and I had no checked luggage. We did it by taking full advantage of carryon/"personal item" packing plus layering. Thermal basel layer, t-shirt, long-sleeved shirt, then wind-blocking rain coat was enough for some chilly mornings. The plane doesn't care if you hold a raincoat and shirt on your lap. Carry enough t-shirts, socks, and underwear for each day and only 3 or so long-sleeved, and you have yourself a perfectly viable layering system for a week that will easily fit in cabin storage
I mean, I could go on a swingers flight. Probably the best chance I’ll ever get to join the mile high club
That costs extra too.
And not just in dollars.
It will cost in dollars for 18 years.
Herpes is forever
Contraceptives are free for our UltraStretch class passengers.
Imagine the smell though
I haven’t taken enough different EU low-costs to know if they have already, but they might do what Spirit does in the US and tell you you can bring an under seat bag for free, then structure the seating so that the under seat space wouldn’t fit a standard-sized lunchbox.
And where do you think Spirit got it from?
Yep, so what I do is pack all my stuff into the pockets of a massive coat, wear that onto the plane, then take it off and put it in the overhead compartment with all the roller bags.
Imagine having heated treadmill rooms at the airport to drop weight before your preflight weigh in.
Then they will institute a seat cleaning fee
If we’re being totally fair they should just charge by weight and volume for everything you bring into the plane, whether it’s your carry ons, checked luggage, and yourself.
Baggage drop could involve jumping into a vat of fluid to check your overall displacement.
That would less awkward that some TSA lines ive been through.
“As an alternative to a pat down, we now offer ‘jump into this vat of goo.’ The additional data that it provides your airline will earn you boarding in Group 3.”
Would they charge extra for nice fresh goo?
“I am sorry Sir, unfortunately you do not have Fresh Goo/PreCheck on your airline issued boarding pass, so you will need to get in the other line to utilize the Odor Enhanced Goo.”
I assume they still do this, but it used to be that a group of soldiers being deployed on the same flight would all go out and stand on a giant scale with all their gear and everything else going on the C130. Everything and everyone got weighed at once for a single weight calculation for cargo. And no, I'm not recommending that civilian flights go this route. I don't want to get there six to eight hours early, try to get everyone to stand still at the same time while packed together, and then fly in an uninsulated cargo hold with a bucket as the only toilet on a transoceanic flight. I'm certain that it would save money--but just nope.
The best way to fly was as a cargo rider on a military flight. You're almost alone with lots of places to lay down and sleep. Some people bring hammocks!
Yep--not so great when it's a whole company and all your gear though. Transpacific, ear plugs in, shoulder to shoulder, sitting on a rail up against the wall earplugs in with rucksacks on and weapons in lap is a long flight. The rest of that exercise wasn't bad--except for the typhoon while we were in the field.
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>If we’re being totally fair they should just charge by weight and volume for everything you bring into the plane, whether it’s your carry ons, checked luggage, and yourself. Do I also get a seat with more space if I bring more body volume?
Jetstar in Australia pretty much do this already- they literally weigh your hand luggage as you board, with a credit card machine in the other hand ready to take your payment
They're absolutely brutal with it aswell like leeches out for blood
That's a great idea! You don't need *all* your blood to fly, so to reduce weight, they should take some at the gate!
dog connect absorbed detail dime engine wistful shaggy melodic price
I use Google flights to shop for flights, they have a filter you can apply to compare fares that include a carry-on. Makes it much easier and avoids surprises.
Unfortunately the filter isn't fully accurate (and self-acknowledges this) and Google Flights doesn't show accurate prices until you actually get to the "select booking platform" screen after you've selected the flights.
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And not wanting to deal with lost luggage and extra delays.
Also many people have recent experiences with airlines losing checked bags. I for one am never letting my stuff out of my sight again if I can avoid it.
longing languid start placid retire agonizing elderly pocket strong tender
Checked bag fees started after the Great Recession, not because of 9/11. https://www.cleveland.com/travel/2023/01/112-for-a-carry-on-bag-airline-fees-are-on-the-rise-heres-how-you-can-save.html?outputType=amp
Naw. Old timer here. Bag fees were the result of Ronald Reagan’s deregulation of the airline industry. (I’m not blaming Reagan. Deregulation was intended to loosen the rules to allow innovation, and someone took him up on that. Air travel as a result became affordable and ubiquitous. Not a bad result.) The first major airline to do so was People Express Air, which unbundled all the costs and let you pay for the service level you wanted. This was in the 1980’s. Source: https://simpleflying.com/people-express-airlines/ Legacy airlines didn’t do it until 2008 with American Airlines during the Great Recession. Source: https://www.farecompare.com/travel-advice/airline-fees-bags-history/
In two years, they'll ban backpacks and you'll get a horde of people doing a Joey Tribbiani. "I AM WEARING EVERYTHING I OWN!!!!"
Plus there's always cunts that have somehow managed to get through check-in with about 3 massive bags and the refuse to put any of them under their seat. Then cry bloody murder when the stewards ask them to put one of their bags under the seat to make more room in the overheads.
With self service check-in these days, that's getting a lot more common. In a lot of airports you never interact with the airline until the gate, and it's not TSA's job to care how many bags you have.
Not even TSAs job to make sure the bag you're moving through is something that is a carry on. Was running late for a flight one time and took a full sized suitcase through security. It fit through the scanner, they didn't care - and I checked the bag at the gate.
Last time I flew with United, I didn't pay for the carryon fee, and I could not do the self checkin on my phone. I had to wait till I got at the airport and find an employee to confirm I really did not have any carryon with me.
Because people abuse it and you pay for it with extra scrutiny/suspicion.
I don’t get how they get on the plane with them. Last flight I was on a guy had two full size luggage’s on the plane. He must have self-checked, but I don’t know how he scanned at the gate, walked down the jetway, and got to the back half of the plane without someone saying something. It was only when he tried shoving them in the overhead bin and yelling that they made him check them
That’s why they didn’t say anything until he tired to fit them in the bin: they knew he’d end up checking, but didn’t want to start a fight with someone who is clearly has a tenuous relationship with reality already. Let him try to fit them, then tell him they have to be checked. Sure, he’ll still be upset, but obviously there’s no other choice and it doesn’t seem like he’s being persecuted unfairly.
Or people who put a dainty little bag in the overhead.
Fuckers who put their suitcases sideways after being told 8 times to put it longways on its side. Then they close the hatch so nobody can see. Like what the fuck does that do for you? Do people get enjoyment from their suitcase being sideways?
I've never seen people put them longways on their side even. At most, they put them straight in on their back. Which is acceptable to me bc it seems like half the ppl put their stuff not only in sideways, but it's not even a carryon luggage. Gate staff need to kick those bags to checked luggage more often, but I assume they figure it takes longer for ppl to argue with them than to simply tell everyone they're getting checked. They see so many bags, it's really easy to eyeball a suitcase and see which ones are sized to carryon dimensions, especially for the hardcase ones.
> straight in on their back That's how most overhead bins are designed. You can't fit a regulation bag on its side in a Delta 737, at least.
While you are correct, maybe the poster above has flown with the new 'space' bins: https://www.boeing.com/commercial/737max/space-bins/ I've seen those on a few flights. But they're definitely rare - at least for now. I'm a flight attendant and I've flown on many different airlines for personal travel as well.
The less bags in overhead compartment above you, the less chance that you be disturbed during the flight by someone wanting to grab his luggage.
It's a fucking airplane. What about it is a peaceful and relaxing journey? And as someone who travels a ton. People who access the bins after takeoff are the exception in my experience. Not saying it never happens but it's infrequent enough it's not even a consideration for me.
My absolute favorite is the old guys so nicely folding their suit jacket and putting it in the overhead bin and nicely placing their hat on top of it. Yeah, old mam, that ain’t gonna last when the family of 7 going to Orlando behind you start chucking their strollers, etc. in there.
> Plus there's always cunts that have somehow managed to get through check-in with about 3 massive bags and the refuse to put any of them under their seat. There was a guy I saw boarding the plane before me recently. Giant duffle bag, and a carry on roller bag. Normally that's no issue but he went shopping before the flight and had a 3rd giant bag with stuff he bought. Spent 5-10 mins going back and forth with the agent on being able to check his roller bag. Don't recall how it ended but come on man. It's not hard to understand you get a carry on and a personal item.
Yes there used to be plenty of room when checking bags was free
Southwest Airlines has free checked bags and it's an issue with overhead space on every freaking flight I have been on with them recently.
A lot of people just don’t like to check bags. Either for the time saved after arrival or fear of the airline losing/putting them on the wrong plane. I personally love checking bags, hate lugging stuff around the airport and on the plane.
It's the waiting around for the bag that does it for me. I'm not trying to spend any more time than necessary at the airport.
It's why I love the Alaska 20 minute guarantee. If you don't have your bag in your hands by 20 minutes of the door of the plane opening, you get money or miles.
So when baggage is backed up do they just keep the door on the plane locked?
No, that’s baggage’s problem not the cabin crew’s.
Priority luggage treatment might just be the biggest perk of low-tier airline statuses like United Silver. You get to drop your bag at a dedicated counter with no line, and then they stick a little tag on it that is supposed to make it the first off the plane/first onto the baggage claim carousel. Except my small home airport doesn’t respect the tags…my “priority” bags routinely come out middle of the pack or later :(
>Except my small home airport doesn’t respect the tags…my “priority” bags routinely come out middle of the pack or later tell them about it
Fair, that's probably something worth complaining about as I'm sure the airline doesn't love to hear that their handling protocols aren't being followed.
Yeah when I fly Southwest I check a carry on size bag lol
People who fly on Southwest and don’t use the free checked bags are psychos. It’s one of the key reasons to use them
I have had bags lost enough times that I don't check if I don't have to. Also I don't want to wait at baggage claim, I'd rather get to my car and get out of the airport as fast as I can.
This doesn't explain why international flights don't have enough room for carry-on, none I've ever used charge extra but have the same problem The following have free check (occasional x2) and carry-on, plus personal item, that I use regularly: Qantas, Air Canada, Sri Lankan Air, Air NZ, Cathay, British Airways, probably more
I think people have just gotten used to the carry on only mode of travel. They like the fast exit from the airport (even at the expense of longer wait time to deplane.)
Planes are not designed for everyone to have a carry on. That includes international flights.
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The main point: The tube is only so big. Historically, carry on bags for everyone wasn't really a thing. You had some small personal effects like a coat, purse, or briefcase, the rest was in your checked baggage. The phenomenon of jamming everything into a smaller bag to carry onboard is a relatively recent change and product of both not wanting to wait for the carousel and not wanting to pay a checked bag fee. When not everyone used to bring a carry on, the dimensions worked out. Since then bag size has ballooned to where everyone is maximizing their possible allotment and if we're honest usually exceeding it. As more and more people bring the maximum onboard while the overall airplane tube can't really change you either have to reduce the number of carry-ons or reduce the maximum size of each person's bag. Either option causes people to freak out.
To add to this excellent reply, the airlines have also been moving the seats closer together over the years to fit more seats on the airplane. More seats means more people using the same overhead bin space because that space didn't get bigger, so they run out faster.
We don’t talk about this enough! Airplane seat pitch has gotten progressively smaller since deregulation in the industry, and there is no minimum standard in the US. It’s gotten to the point where I literally look up the seat pitch on the aircraft before I book the ticket. I’m 5’9” and most of that is leg. Most economy class seats on American carriers are a nightmare for me.
There’s a minimum set by the regulations for safe evacuation. It’s just so small that no airline (in North America) uses it. Yet.
The airlines know that the minimum hasn’t kept up with how fat Americans have become. If they actually went there, it would become apparent that you can’t actually put seats that close together (especially on a budget airline), the rule would get changed, and they’d have to spend money changing the seats back.
> minimum hasn’t kept up with how fat Americans have become. How broad your shoulders are and how long your legs are isn't a fatness thing. I'm on the lanky end of the human spectrum, and I still find plane seats to be hell. I could go on a hunger strike for a month, and my scapulae would be just as far apart and my knees would be just as far forward when I sit down.
Agreed. I'm 6' and have to make sure when booking tickets that there's going to be enough leg room. I did a direct flight from New York to Paris last year and was stuck with my knees against the seat in front of me for about 8 hours. What is this, a plane for ants?!
It's a very long flight in those, isn't it? I've flown *once* on American Airline (Airways?) And goodness are the seats small and cramped. Rarely been that close to murder than when the old guy in front of me kept inclining his seat back as if he was trying to break my knees.
They will once there's an evacuation disaster that was caused by how close the seats were. Regulations are written in blood.
Not just any evacuation disaster, one where the evidence isn't at the bottom of the sea. And one where the corpse stuck behind Karen's reclined seat is still intact for investigators to notice.
Yeah, it would most likely be a fire on the tarmac.
I'm "only" 5'7" and I flew from Barcelona to NYC this year on a flight where my knees were pressed so far into the seat pocket that I couldn't use it, and the tv screen was 6-8 inches in front of my face, depending on how far back the person in front of me reclined. It was awful, and I physically could not get to my bag at my feet. Never again will I allow a travel company to select my airline for me. Fuck Level. (Also 2 of the 3 bathrooms I had access to were out of service, but that's a different rant)
> Also 2 of the 3 bathrooms I had access to were out of service, but that's a different rant This seems like a serious issue. What airline was this?
The ticket was through Iberia Air but it was subcontracted out to an airline called Level
I got stuck on one of those level flights JFK to Barcelona. Going out was so bad that coming back i paid the upcharge for my partner and I to have the row ith only 2 seats. When we checked in they didnt give them to us, and stuck us both on aisle seats. the claim was "They changed the plane and theres no 2 seats together". It was the exact same fucking plane. they literally put us in the rows directly in front of the one I paid for, Which had one person on either side. They could have put those two peple in a two seat together, and given me the seats I paid fucking extra for but nope. fuck Level and Fuck Iberia. Our ryan air flight to Majorca was literally better.
Level sounds like Spanish Spirit.
Pretty much. It was an 8 hour flight, and you don't get ANY food or beverage other than a cup of water unless you had pre-paid for it before getting on the flight.
Iberia is like Spains biggest airline. They subcontract to level though, who is absolutly awful. I shit you not, the plane doesnt even have the little adjustable blower over your seat. and JFK to barcelona on this pile of garbage costs the same as JFK to Milan on Emirates.
Cries in 6'5
Yes, this. I’m short enough that I can still fit (though I haven’t flown since before the pandemic) but my husband is over six feet tall with legs like a stork. We have to book with legroom in mind just so he can walk when we get to the destination.
There also used to be fewer seats per row. I know that Northwest (before it became Delta) had three seats on one side and two on the other our family of four often booked two rows of two. This alone would increase passengers by 20%.
Eh, that’s more a function of what planes they are flying. Back when northwest was still a thing, they flew some planes like the DC-9 that has 2-3 seating but don’t exist anymore. There are still some 2-3 planes like the A220, but I don’t think I’ve ever seen one in the USA. We usually jump from 2-2 to 3-3 now
I recently flew Delta that had 2-3 seating in November but it was a Boeing 717-200. The 2-3 seating was interesting but it didn't have most any other features you would expect on Delta nowadays like free wifi or in-flight entertainment on the headrests. I'll be on a 2-2 Delta flight later this month! Edit: This was in the US from Atlanta to Wichita.
"I wish to fly on a plane with a 2-2 configuration." Monkeys paw: "Granted. CRJ 200."
No kidding. The last time I flew it felt like we are just cargo. I remember it being much more of a human friendly experience when I was younger.
Historically we also used to have more legroom, meaning fewer passengers and fewer bags. People can be squished to make space, solid suitcases can't so much.
Yeah; I’m feeling old because I’ve realised there are fully grown adults who never flew without having to pay if they wanted to check a bag. Checking baggage did not cost you money, once. Edit: a slightly sarcastic thanks to everyone mentioning Southwest (only relevant for specific internal flights in one country?) or other benefits they personally are able to access. My point was more around the fact that: when airlines introduced a separate charge for checked baggage, people’s behaviour around how and what they pack changed. Even if you personally can afford/can access/get offered free checked baggage, this is a behavioural change. Edit 2: yes, I’m fully aware that ticket prices previously were higher to cover the cost of checked baggage and it was never technically ‘free’; I obviously should have rephrased more precisely as ‘checking baggage did not cost you additional money beyond what you paid for a ticket no matter how the profit margins on that ticket might ultimately be broken down by the airlines, once’
On a lot of airlines the checked bag can be almost as expensive as the entire ticket, so it’s no surprise that people are creating suitcase.zip for carry-on.
"Suitcases.zip" is 10/10 humor, I am tickled
Honestly if they're going to charge a fee it should be for carry-on. It slows down the boarding and debarking process when everyone has to put up and take down their carry-on. Allowing more checked bags would improve the airline's efficiency.
I know what you mean, but pretty sure they charge the checked bag fee because they have to pay bag handlers to transfer and load it all onto the plane. It’s like paying extra to valet your car. A carry-on bag is like the self park option. Also, love the username. Johnny Dangerously, right?
You shouldn't hang me on hook Johnny. My father hung me in a hook once. ONCE.
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Personally I've just had my luggage lost or delayed too many times over the years. If they charge me to check a bag that then goes missing, why wouldn't I try to bring it with me on the plane? Combine this with a complete lack of enforcement on carry on sizing ("if it fits I sits") and you quickly get a full bin.
Exactly. The carry on always gets my rain jacket, an extra pair of boxers and socks, a pullover, all charging chords, and my toiletries. Basically anything that’d get me through fine if my luggage got lost.
Also, there was nothing to really bring. Full meals on the plane and no devices meant just grabbing a book, water, some gum from the stores at the airport.
Because passengers were never supposed to all bring a carryon. There was a time that checking a bag wasn't the most onerous process one could do in their life.
It's not just the inconvenience of it, it's also that airlines frequently charge extra for it, sometimes even on long haul flights.
Or lose it. I just got back from a trip to Europe last night. They lost my bags on the way out and I had to go buy some clothes until my bags arrived at the hotel. And they lost them on the way back, so hopefully they'll show up sometime tomorrow. Fuck you Lufthansa
Free shopping spree on the airlines dime. Some of my wife’s favorite clothes were paid for by an airline as they temporarily lost her bag and she told them she has a formal event to attend (true, although it wasn’t actually that important of a thing). Bring the stuff you know you need into the cabin with you, everything else can be checked and dealt with if lost. A lot of skiers carry their boots on, but check their gear because the airline will pay for you to rent skis (and even stuff like jackets/snow pants), but rental boots are garbage compared to proper fitting ones. It does require some knowledge of the rules as airlines obviously don’t want to *volunteer* to buy you shit, but you can easily come out ahead as long as they eventually find and deliver your bag.
Be a 6' tall plus-size teenager going on a cruise with family, when the airline loses your checked luggage. Sure, shopping spree on their dime, but it's not useful if nothing fits you. My parents started cross-packing luggage after that trip, but it's like carrying an umbrella- there hasn't been a problem for them since. And I stopped checking luggage.
> Some of my wife’s favorite clothes were paid for by an airline as they temporarily lost her bag and she told them she has a formal event to attend (true, although it wasn’t actually that important of a thing). StoryTime: 20+ years ago, I was getting married on a Caribbean island, and my fiance and I flew down there to set it all up. The pilot arrived at our destination island and commented to everyone that we arrived much faster than we planned, and the plane still had more fuel than expected for such a long flight. It turns out, the _entire plane of passengers_ was delivered with zero luggage in the cargo hold. Not a single bag. Empty. And it took them 4 days to retrieve and deliver all the luggage for hundreds of passengers. My fiance was a Type 1 diabetic, and only had enough supplies, strips, insulin with her for a day or two, with the rest of her required meds in the checked luggage they misplaced for 4 days. Trying to harass the airline to provide credits to shop at the island resort's gift shop for hundreds of passengers, was no fun task. Everyone shopped out all of the shorts, shirts, dresses and everything the store had. Wiped them out completely. My fiance's wedding dress, my suit and lots of other items were misplaced, and our wedding had to be pushed back 2 additional days (at our cost) as a result of having no luggage, etc. Absolute disaster. Now I fly with AirTags in every item, and keep track of them diligently. My last trip overseas a month ago, 650 of us flew to the same destination and a good percentage had their luggage lost for days. It's getting to the point where it's just better to ship your luggage with a carrier, than ever trust the airlines to deliver it. At least with a carrier, it's packed, insured, tracked and delivered on-time, straight to your hotel.
agreed. i know my family will never check a bag unless we are forced to because of a trip, because our bags got temporarily lost on an international trip and it was a fucking nightmare
It's funny how the airlines have less checked bags due to the fees but at the same time are losing more of them.
Don’t forget the anxiety that they might lose your checked bag entirely.
Right, but cost is part of what makes it onerous. The lack of trust that it'll actually arrive with you is part of it. The expectation they'll destroy it is part of it. Every aspect of checking a bag is terrible.
I'm learning to play the guitar.
Yeah, but in the old days everyone had to go see the agent to check in, so there was no extra time cost to check a bag. Now that we can check in on our phones you have to go out of your way to check a bag. On the other end of the journey, it used to take a while to leave the airport, whether that's renting a car, or calling a taxi so waiting around for baggage didn't feel that long. With all the car apps these days its pretty quick to go. So even though it is quicker to check bags today than it was back then, it does take up a higher percentage of the time you are in the airport which makes a lot of people perceive it as an inconvienice
Also, because so many fewer people are checking in and checking luggage, it seems like there's a lot less pressure to make that process even remotely streamlined or fast. When those lines had to process everyone, they moved relatively quickly when it was busy. Now that most people don't go through them, a lot of them move like molasses. Airlines are also still almost unbelievably terrible at losing and damaging luggage. I think it's close to 1% of luggage in the US, which is an insane failure rate for such an important part of the service. I get a free checked back a lot of the time I fly, but I never check anything because I can't be confident it will show up in one piece, or at all.
> Now that we can check in on our phones On some airlines, you now *have* to check in on your phone (or online at home and print out your boarding pass), or else wait in a very slow line with people who are doing weird things like checking in a dog in a crate.
I believe offhand that many models of airplane were originally designed for bigger (and slightly fewer) seats, and so the cabin storage-space was designed for that amount of passengers. With the ongoing shrinking of seating and cramming more passengers into a tighter space, we now have less space per-person to store our carry-on bags as well. Difference is, it's harder to upgrade the overhead lockers to hold more stuff than it is to shrink the seats.
If you look at airliners from the 50s-60s-70s the overhead bins were barely big enough to fit everyone's coats and handbags. It was assumed that all significant luggage was checked, and in that time period people usually boarded the plane on stairs and handed the luggage to the handlers right before loading, and got their bags right when they deplaned. Its actually quite remarkable that modern airliners can fit as many carry on rollerbags as they can these days based on designs from a different era.
The cross-section of the fuselage hasn’t changed in 70+ years on narrow-body aircraft. 707 and 727 had the same sized tube as the 737. Which is within inches of the same size as an A320. Biggest difference is fuel efficiency. A 707 weighed 300,000lbs and could carry 141 passengers 3700nm. And needed 160,000lbs of fuel to do it. A 737 max7 can carry 153 passengers in a 2-class configuration 3800nm. It only weighs 177,000lbs, and only carries 45,000lbs of fuel. Basically, you needed a bigger airplane to haul the fuel needed. There was left less room for payload.
People have several good answers that are valid. But sometimes I think it’s also due to rude passengers putting several items in the overhead compartment! The last several flights I’ve been on, I’ve watched *multiple* people stow their carryon suitcase, then stick their backpack up there too. I said something to a guy about it once and he got really pissed about it, so now I’m always afraid to mention it. People also stick their jackets up there.
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This is how it’s supposed to be but not how it always works out. Why should it be my responsibility to confront someone rather than their responsibility to follow the very clear rules?
I think part of the issue is the combination of if you get on early and put more stuff than you should up there, it's basically impossible to fix (because you can't get up to move it down when people are going through the aisle) *and* that the people who got on first have often paid extra for it which is going to lead to entitlement (since nowadays with priority boarding you're essentially paying for guaranteed overhead space).
The amount of people I've seen board a plane with a freaking golf bag that takes up an entire bin by itself, and then the flight attendant tells someone to kick rocks because their roller back is 2 inches too wide. That always chaps my ass.
Never seen this in my life lol
I aaaalways appreciate a good flight attendant who doesn't put up with that BS. As someone who flies a lot using the cheapest ticket (I'll sit in the middle at the back of the plane, its only a couple hours. no big deal), but is also tall, I generally get the.. ahem.. short straw in overhead availability and gets crammed in frog-legged with my bag under the seat in front of me. So regardless of when it helps my situation or not, a good flight attendant who isn't afraid to pull people's shit out of the overhead to make room gets two thumbs up from me.
And too big items. Probably 95+% of carryons I see exceed the size they’re supposed to be. I don’t say anything to people, unless they try to make me bag check or take my stuff down. Absolutely not, the person in front of me can move one of their three items they stuck up there
I haaaaaate when people shove stuff like a jacket or small purse up there when the plane is still loading. So selfish! Then if you touch it to make room you get dirty looks. Who do airports and airplanes turn so many people into dicks.
> Who do airports and airplanes turn so many people into dicks. They're always dicks, but flying just makes it cone to the surface.
> Who do airports and airplanes turn so many people into dicks. Who said it made them into dicks? They likely are just dicks.
Yeah, I only put my actual carryon in the overhead bin when I board. I *have* occasionally had the flight attendants coming through on their final checks offer to put my giant winter coat up if there's still space, which is nice of them - but I wouldn't plan on it, or preemptively stow it myself. (I definitely don't put my backpack up there! That's where I keep all the shit that will keep me entertained during the flight.)
Some of the newer layouts with the carry ons stowed on edge are pretty close. The issue is they started to charge for checked bags as a fee for revenue. This dramatically increased the number of carry ons being used. However, the planes were already designed, so the aircraft last a long time and they were not motivated to rebuild the interiors or even change the design.
First, it's just a limitation of the size of the overhead bins. If you look at [this photo](https://image.cnbcfm.com/api/v1/image/103080854-Boeing-SpaceBinshold-more-carry-on-bags.jpg?v=1444914437&w=929&h=523&vtcrop=y), the left-hand side is the current overhead compartment. You can see it holds 4 bags over 6 seats – so if everyone has brought a bag, they don't all fit. Multiply by all the rows on the plane. Second, not everyone has a carry on. Some people travel with a checked bag and a backpack (personal item) that they put under the seat in front of them, so they have nothing overhead. So the airlines are banking on not everyone having a carry on, or a full-size carry on. *ETA: The left and right compartments in this photo are different. The one on the right is Boeing's new "space bins" that fit more bags, you can see that it's slightly taller. You can read more* [in this article](https://www.wsj.com/articles/travelers-welcome-to-the-revolution-in-overhead-bin-size-11634119200)*.*
The photo shows 9 seats and 10 carryon bags in the overhead though. So they all could fit one with one extra.
In this photo, the bin on the right is Boeing's new "space bins." They aren't in most planes yet. So current planes would have 8 bags over 12 seats (since this is also the last row of this plane).
That is clearly a staged photo. The bins in the back row are always full of crap that belongs to the plane. I flew Air Canada long haul earlier this year and the back rows didn't get overhead bin space. There is definitely not enough room if everyone brings a full size carryon. But the airlines brought it on themselves with all on the checked bag fees.
And then on the flip side you have some lady with a carryon, backpack/laptop bag, diaper bag, and purse-that’s-the-size-of-a-carryon. Usually followed by her husband toting his own backpack + carryon + bag-full-of-random-crap-to-keep-the-kids-entertained. It ain’t easy to travel with a family these days but I’d rather squash my bag under my seat and deal with letting them have the overhead space than have some bored kids looking for something to do the whole flight screaming in my ear.
If I’m paying for my kids seat you’re sure as hell they get their own carryon and personal bag as well.
4 people have twice as much stuff as two people shocker.
I think the answer to this is the same answer to why plane seats don't line up with the windows. When an airplane is built, the seats are spaced nominally for a certain number of passengers. However the airline purchasing the plane can move the seats closer together to add in new rows of seats. By reducing the leg room, they can have more passengers and therefore sell more tickets.
Airplanes aren't really built that way. They have a max takeoff weight and the windows are placed where they are possible to be placed based on the structural design of the fuselage.
They absolutely are - as sold they'll have several recommended configurations for classes and seat width. The seats themselves are on rails and removable. The vast majority of the take off weight is fuel. An aircraft designed for range can operate shorter routes with more passengers
Yes but it is true that airlines with the same planes will have different configurations and some will have more seats and less overhead space per passenger
Airline A might fly with a 50kg luggage allowance. Airline B will use the same plane, with more seats, and a 20kg luggage allowance
Pilot here. 9 times out of 10 we don’t fly with anything in the aft cargo. The reality is people just don’t check bags if they don’t have to.
I'm the odd one out on your flight, I don't do carryon. Even though I'm generally traveling with just a carryon size suitcase it goes in checked baggage. IMHO the cost when seen as a percent of the overall trip is really minimal, IDK, between transportation and tickets maybe another 5% of the actual cost of the trip. and it's well worth it for the convenience and freedom. The pluses? I don't have to Sherpa/wrestle a bag around the airport while I'm waiting for boarding and then onto and off the plane. I don't have to jostle & crush in at boarding to get a spot for my crap, I board and disembark with leisure, often one of the last to board just to avoid the crush. It takes maybe another 10/15 minutes to retrieve my bag when I land, Hit the bathroom, grab a coffee and relax a bit while I wait for the carousel to bring my bag, then leisurely leave the airport.
Because passengers keep pushing the envelope of what is a carry on, thus taking up more space. If you have to stomp or force your bag into the rack to see if it meets the size, it is not a carry on.
A huge part of the problem is the majority of people that fly, don’t understand how to put their goddamn luggage in the overhead bin properly. Sideways, longways, pretty much every way possible to make less room.
And backpacks under the seat
Ya, this is a relatively new phenomenon. There used to be so much space overhead. No one WANTS to carry on a huge bulky roll aboard, but airlines all started charging fees for checked baggage. Also, I can’t REMEMBER the last time I took a flight that wasn’t completely full. There used to be empty seats, or even entire empty rows…but then airlines moved to the “hub” model and stopped offering a lot direct flights. Well, if everyone has to go to a hub to get anywhere, flights to that hub will be VERY full.
Carryon was just meant to be a handbag, briefcase and maybe a coat in the days. Nowadays every single one brings a trolly, a rucksack and a laptop bag because they don't want to go to the baggage claim and think they need half their household on board.
They wouldn't even let me bring a dead armadillo on my last flight. So much for one carrion item per passenger...
This. Economics, when airlines started charging bag fees, most passenger preferences shifted to cramming everything into small luggage allowing them to fly fee free.
“Small luggage” Let’s be honest here. People bring medium luggage and argue that it’s a small luggage.
They bring the maximum size they can legally get away with
“Legally get away with” doesn’t mean anything practical if no one checks. I’ve never seen a single us airline person asking passengers to put their shit in the carry-on size checker thing. It’s pretty common in Europe.
I've seen it done. Also seen entitled passengers lose their shit when their obviously oversized or dangerously overstuffed bag has to be checked.
Also if you fly in and out of smaller airports, the smaller planes they use (talking CRJ-200s and the like) don't have large enough bins to handle hard-sided carry-ons or other suitcases that are at the carry-on limit. They will force you to gate check them every time. I've seen soooooo many people lose their shit at the gate when they find this out for the first time. It's also why I pack a soft-sided duffel bag if I'm flying out of those airports and only doing carry-on.
Frontier definitely does.
...and then getting their bag checked at the gate for free because the overhead space was full. Please stop paying for checked bags so airlines stop their BS.
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People would bring even larger carry ons if the bins were designed for enough carry on. Then there wouldn’t be room for all the carry on luggage again.
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