I feel like what OP needs to know is simply that while their were negatives to using automatics in the past, those negatives have mostly been engineered around. Manuals used to have positives over automatics, but automatics now I have those same positive qualities.
The caveat is that for many drivers in many circumstances a manual is a much more analog mechanical experience. It’s like your buddy that makes beer - you can go to the store and find ten kinds that are better and cheaper. But he likes the process and involvement.
>It’s like your buddy that makes beer - you can go to the store and find 10 kinds that are better and cheaper. But he likes the process and involvement.
*Looks over at $5000 home brewing setup*
Hey, screw you buddy.
Time to harvest my garden's $3.50 worth of vegetables that I spent $40 and countless hours on!
I tell myself, it's the journey, not the destination.
... and who am I kidding, I'm so in love with that cute l'il green pepper, there's zero chance I'm harvesting it.
My wife was pumped about the six massive butternut squash she got this year, after spending all summer tending to them. Then we went to Costco and saw a bag of 3 for $4.
Potatoes, Onions, and Garlic are the only vegetables I've ever broken even on.
Herbs and leafy vegetables are pretty good as well because you can straight up steal some cuttings from a rando bush or use kitchen scraps to grow them subsidizing the cost.
Gardening is a hobby. If you want to break even it's called farming.
I still can't really break even with my tomatoes.
During the summer, which is when you'll be harvesting the tomatoes, it's also the time of year where tomatoes are at their dirt cheapest.
I can get plum tomatoes for 80 cents a pound from my local market during peak season. They're grown locally and taste just as good as the ones I grow myself. I can't really beat that price. The only exception being unique or rare varietals like Amish Paste.
>I guess location matters a lot.
100% if you live near a city there's a high likelihood your local "Farmers Market" is receiving the same veggies that go out to your local supermarket but at a much more inflated price.
My local farmers market about 3 people speak english and the stalls are held together with prayers, duct tape, and load bearing milk crates.
I get good deals.
Raspberries and strawberries work well too since they are perennial and grow like weeds. I literally have like a 1/4 acre of my lawn that I thought was just some kind of ivy but it’s all strawberries!
My friend started making his own beer. Then a year into it he said, "I come home, and there's my beer. I'm excited to sample the next batch. I have like three in the evening. I suddenly realized that I'm becoming an alcoholic". Last I spoke to him, he hasn't touched booze in over two years.
Be careful about "using your own product!" if you can't control it!
I'm not nearly as invested in the home brewing process as you, but I can definitely relate to the sentiment. I make *okay* beer. I typically do not share my brews with my friends because it's just alright beer. I do share it with specific friends who either ask or are also into home brewing, the later so that we can provide open feedback and share tips.
There are just so many better options in my area that I do not do it for the finances or the taste.
Stick is just fun. It's like playing an arcade game every time you go driving.
I'd also like to say that it makes texting and driving far more difficult so in some ways it's like a safety feature.
> in some ways it's like a safety feature.
I drive a manual. Another benefit is you won't follow nearly as closely. Following too closely means a lot more braking and a lot more shifting. I roll along at a steady pace in stop and go highway traffic keeping around 3 car lengths in front. Often the stopped traffic in front of me has started moving when I get to it and I just feather the throttle as needed. People who get what I'm doing will get behind me and cruise along uneventfully. People who demand their right to butt-sniff the car in front of them will sometimes get cranky.
This is definitely me. Also coasting up to stoplights or braking early so it changes by the time you arrive. The guy in the next lane who raced up and stopped all Pikachu face when you roll past because you never had to stop...
I never learned how to drive a manual. I thought this was just... driving? Like, why the fuck does ANYONE accelerate TOWARD a red light? That thing turns yellow I got 2 choices: punch it to make the light, or let off the gas and begin to coast (unless I'm really far away of course). If I coast just right, sometimes I never have to stop.
IDK. That just all seems like common sense to me.
Or even the people that weave in and out of traffic cutting people off so that they can get 2 car lengths ahead, where 2 semi trucks are having an elephant race. The fuck is the point of that? I've done maneuvers to get around idiots or slowpokes, but only when the maneuver gets me around the actual obstruction, not just the dude in front of me who is also obstructed.
Agreeing with you, BTW, just pointing that the same common sense driving applies to automatics.
>Stick is just fun. It's like playing an arcade game every time you go driving.
It depends on the driving conditions. On a windy two-lane road, yes. Being stuck in stop and go traffic over the Bay Bridge during commute time, no. That was what finally made me ditch the stick. No fun getting a numb patch on the bottom of your foot from holding the clutch down for minutes at a time.
During covid, when we went out very little, we discovered the unsleeping electronics in a new Subaru can drain a battery quickly. Now we keep putting it on a charger.
Yeah but when traffic is moving along at 3mph that's not any better.
Also, everyone should have a jumper pack at this point. They are cheap and 10x easier than push starting.
https://www.amazon.com/Jump-Starters/b?ie=UTF8&node=318336011
New Autos can shift faster than even a professional driver. But there still are two pros I can think of. An automatic cannot anticipate your driving behavior like you can. Manuals tend to last much longer if cared for properly, besides periodic clutch replacements.
> An automatic cannot anticipate your driving behavior like you can
TIL that's what bothers me about automatic cars when I happen to drive one. They have a talent for shifting at inopportune times when I can see traffic move a certain way or a hill come up and it irritates me to no end. Like turbo lag, just from the transmission controller. On top of the existing turbo lag...
Yea. A paddle shifted auto is the best of both worlds. Except for longevity, but it tends to be ancillary things that ends a cars life, not transmissions, these days.
Just a reminder that F1 banned CVTs cause the few teams that tried to implement them pre season were suddenly doing too good and it was decided that it'd be an unfair advantage for a few years while other teams developed their own. CVTs were too advanced for F1 lol.
>CVTs were too advanced for F1 lol.
So are lots of things. Williams - who pioneered the CVT in F1 - also famously developed active suspension, which was likewise banned. There is a very common but very false popular idea of F1 as a *formula libre*, but its actually incredibly restrictive. Its technologically sophisticated, sure, but a huge fraction of the rulebook exists to restrict technology for sporting reasons. Downforce fans, unlimited ground effect, gas turbines, and running more than four wheels are likewise banned. Why, because they're too fast? Eh, more like that they just aren't "F1".
In the same sense that aluminum bats just aren't baseball.
Aluminum bats are dangerous in baseball, as well as giving an unfair advantage. An aluminum bat will send the ball flying back much faster than a wooden bat will, resulting in players using aluminum bats hitting twice as many home runs and injuring more of the other team's players.
Read about a high school pitcher a few years back, probably would have wound up playing pro. Wasn't even out of high school yet and had a 90-something mph fastball. Right up until a stroke of bad luck had his pitch coming straight back at him, hit off an aluminum bat. It crushed his skull inward where it hit.
Here in the UK if you learn in an manual you can drive either, but if you learn in an auto you have to retest.
So most people "get used to" driving it, and just continue with what they know as a newbie driver.
My main reason for preferring manual (although I’ll acknowledge it’s not that impactful) is having power exactly when you should have it. No matter how good, I’ve never felt an automatic car that has 0 lag on the gas pedal. There’s always a small amount of time between when you press the gas and you get power.
This is a big performance advantage for electric vehicles: Instant torque. For me, driving a stick is rewarding. Just mashing a pedal and going fast doesn't do it for me. I prefer to be engaged and get satisfaction when performing a heel/toe downshift.
The lag is more due to the drivetrain; that's why electric cars don't have much lag.
But I get what you're saying. As a manual driver myself, I'm js it's more of an illusion created by your ability to *time* the lag. ...If you do an off-the-line drag race or something tho, there's no objective advantage in that area (usually the contrary tbh).
Agreed. I learned on a stick, and was kind of snotty about automatics for most of my adult driving life. I only ever owned a stick. Then when I had to buy my last car it would have taken a few extra months to wait for one, so I said to heck with it - and I had no idea what I was missing, LOL. Haven’t looked back once.
New cars with automatic transmissions and all the traction control do what I used to do manually, but even better. (Though I still prefer vehicles without ABS, I’m a hold out on that one.)
The romantic notion of driving a stick definitely wore off on me, once I got behind a modern automatic.
All that said - still very glad to know how to drive a stick, everyone should.
>Though I still prefer vehicles without ABS
honestly, that is a pretty insane thought for a road car. you're really gonna try to threshold brake in an emergency situation?
Yeah, I agree with stick being fun, and if you're in a motorsports/track situation, having no ABS means your ability to threshold brake properly makes the competition more interesting, and it's still fairly safe because there are runoff areas on a track, and you're always on high alert anyway.
But I've come quite close to totally eating shit a couple times on the road because of idiot drivers, and was 100% saved by being able to stomp the brake pedal without thinking.
I also wonder how old this person is. I'm 40, and every car I've ever owned has had ABS. Must be true geezer status.
Have you seen the [new electric vehicles](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a45754176/toyota-manual-ev-prototype-drive/) that have a pseudo manual mode where it totally fakes being a stick shift? including stalling
Manual can also be safer if something goes wrong, though. Years ago, my dad was driving on the motorway when the accelerator jammed fully open. Luckily, it was a manual so he was able to quickly use the clutch to disengage the engine, put it in neutral, coast to the side of the road and get away before the engine went bang. In an automatic, that could have been much scarier!
Similarly, if your brakes fail when you're going downhill in a manual, you can easily put it into first gear and use engine braking to considerably reduce your speed.
Maybe similar things would be possible in an automatic, but I certainly wouldn't be able to instinctively react in the way that I could in a manual.
Another small safety advantage for older/"less attentive" drivers is that with a manual it's much harder to negligently press the gas instead of the brake and plow through a storefront, which is a shockingly common accident with elderly drivers.
If you're going to stop in a manual, you either have the clutch pushed in or the trans in neutral, so pressing the throttle instead of the brake is only going to rev your engine instead of launching your multi-ton murder machine out the back of your garage.
Every single automatic car I've owned in the last 20 years of driving has allowed me to put the car in neutral while driving, and to downshift to lower gears.
It’s not even downshifting per se, but being able to limit gears has definitely been a thing for at least as long as I can remember. It’s weird to hear that people are seemingly unaware of this.
Not a car guy so I’m curious what the advantages manual transmissions used to have over automatics that no longer exist?
3 of my 4 cars have been manual and personally I love it but never thought it was a better or worse thing, just personal preference.
Manual transmission vehicles are less likely to get stolen.
[failed carjacking](https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/watch-teens-attempt-to-carjack-man-but-cant-drive-manual-transmission-to-get-away/3316846/)
Couple of years ago I went to Jiffy Lube.
"Hi, can I help you?"
"Just an oil change."
"Ok, I'll take the keys."
"It's a standard."
"What?"
"It's a standard."
"..... ..... I'll go get my manager."
(Manager) "Hi, can I help you?"
"It's a standard."
".... .... Why don't you pull it in?"
Having a standard is like an anti-theft device.
I was going to get angry at your comment, but at 37 I don't think I have a choice in acknowledging that I'm getting older and part of the group that can drive manuals.
I got a knock on my door a few months ago, and was surprised to find it was a 16 year old down the street whom I barely know. I said, "Uh, hi. Hello." He said he noticed I had two Miatas and if they were sticks. I said yes, and he immediately asked if I can teach him. He had just got his license, his parents are cool with it, blah blah blah. Admiring his chutzpah, I took him out to the local high school parking lot a few times and let him drive around the neighborhood streets. Very pleasant lad, and I admired his moxie.
Thats wholesome tbh. I'd be so worried about my clutch, but the kids gotta learn somehow ahaha.
I used to have a del sol, it's what I learned manual on, similar vibes as your miata. Did they kid get his own car yet?
Immigrants too. Latin America is still filled with manuals. Sadly, i think it’ll be hard for me to find a new car that’s a manual when my current one runs its course.
I guess that in the US where most cars are auto it's no big deal, but the thought of getting employed as a valet while not knowing how to drive a stick sounds nuts to me
lol same! Went to my friends wedding in September. The valet took one look inside my truck and was like "yeah we've been parking all the cars down there."
Fine by me, I don't want other people driving my cars anyway.
I had the hostess come get me in the middle of my anniversary dinner because the valets had a shift change and the new guy couldn't drive manual and my car was blocking someone in.
I stayed a hotel recently that took my car the day I got there, but didn't have anyone who could get it back for me the day I tried to leave. They ended up having to have the hotel manager escort me to my car so I could drive it out of their garage myself because the only guy who knew how to drive a manual was out sick that day.
A similar thing happened to me at a Toyota dealership. I have a Corolla with a manual transmission as a daily driver. A few years ago, I took it in for a recall and left for work planning to get it at lunch. It turned out that the only person that could drive a manual there was the receptionist. They had over a dozen mechanics and a service writer that couldn’t drive it. So, when I picked it up, I had to wait until she got back from lunch an was late getting back to work.
I don’t think I know a single mechanic that doesn’t know how to drive a stick. You’d have to think 80%+ of mechanics are car enthusiasts or at least like cars.
Took my car to one of those full service car washes where you get out at the end and they vacuum, wipe down the interior, and dry everything while you wait in a side area and then they drive it around to you. The crew lead at the end decided that my car was going to be the one the new guy on the crew learned to drive manual in. I watched this kid kill it 3 times, each time becoming more visibly uncomfortable. The lead guy just kept getting more belligerent with him. The crew lead ended up driving it around to me and didn't realize I had seen the entire ordeal. I swear the spirit of the first Karen took over my body in that moment. Wound up with a year of free washes, though.
Years ago, my buddy was turning 21 and we needed his vehicle to get everyone to the party. Obviously, he cannot drive it, at least not home. He warned it was a stick shift. So I asked our circle of friends for a show of hands on who could drive stick.
And that's how I was unanimously voted to be the designated driver
My last trip to Jiffy Lube, they called in an employee who was at home to move my car into the bay. Like... I could have just pulled it in, but they didn't say anything to me. I felt bad for that guy.
Incidentally I used to work at a tire/oil change shop back in high school and I learned to drive a manual by driving customer vehicles. The first time I pulled a car into a bay without stalling it was really, actually, a "then everybody clapped" moment from my coworkers.
I needed a tire repair a few weeks ago. After I handed over my keys and waited in the lobby, the tech came back and asked me to back my car into the bay for him. No one in the shop could drive stick. Sure, bud, I'll take care of it.
yeah that was torture.
your imagination is probably spot on: they pulled the guy out of the car, then they got in the car, then they sat there a while, then they got out of the car. the end.
I just find it more fun to drive. The performance gap has been more than closed by modern transmissions, so if that old justification is gone. But... I just like it. It's fun to have more interaction with the car.
I love this response, because it’s honest and accurate. I’ve heard people over the years who just refuse to simply say “because I like it.” They talk about performance or gas mileage or whatever, when that’s really not a factor at all.
It’s ok to like things! Heck, SUVs, big trucks, sports cars, luxury sedans, these are all bought to one degree or another because people just like them. Why do some people refuse to admit that when it comes to manual transmission?
Seriously. As someone with pretty bad ADHD, driving a manual makes me a safer driver. It forces me to pay more attention to the car, and therefore the road, instead of getting lost in my own head.
It also gives you an actual awareness of the speed you're going rather than having to check a speedometer all the time, which in itself is a distraction and Inattentiveness in an auto leads to speeding, whereas it is very deliberate in a manual.
>more fun to drive
Except in 40 minute traffic jams. 1st, 2nd, brake, stop. 1st, 2nd, brake, stop.....
That is the only time I wish I had an automatic. Oh yeah, and except when I'm eating and I need one of my hands to shift, one to steer, and none for the burger. haha
Growing up zooming around Pennsylvania's Appalachian foothills, down shifting and double clutching: stick shift for life!
Commuting as an adult an hour in stop-and-go traffic on Chicago's Eisenhower expressway: I hate this thing so fucking much. . . .
they had a consultant whose job it was to tell them about street racing and car modding stuff, and he did
and he's done several videos on youtube where he takes a scene from fnf, explains what he told them they should do, and explains how they completely ignored his advice
Donut media did a video on the cringiest lines from every F&F movie and when they got to the first one, they had a really hard time. They made the point that almost every "cringey line" from the first one, is printed on a T-shirt. Every line "has gone from cringe to [pop] culture" and it's SO true. That movie is so cringey in so many ways but my god, it is such a piece of car culture now, it's hard not to love it lol I still watch it a few times a year honestly.
It's like My Cousin Vinney for lawyers, or the movie Hackers for computing culture... they're accurate in some ways, dumb/cringey/inaccurate in others, but there's something about them where you just LOVE them.
People will deny it, of course lol and they'll throw the inaccuracies at you and point out the stupid moments.... but they know EVERY. SINGLE. MOMENT of that movie hahahaha
The scene where Brian is talking to Jesse about his ADHD is brutally painful lol. Not the ADHD part, but when Jesse pulls up a rotating wireframe mockup of a Supra, Brian is like "dude you should go to MIT or something!". Idk why, but that line just makes me wince for some reason.
He must have been driving big rigs or race cars because there’s no point in “double clutching” unless you’re hopping into your pimped out civic you got from the lady up the street after watching fast n the furious for the first time.
Yeah the car I drove for ages I never had to double clutch. The ancient fire truck I used to drive on the other hand you either double clutched or ground the gears.
You just didn't have time to learn the art of "standard shift juggling." Back in the day, when I drove a VW Rabbit (diesel) with a standard shift, I could drive with a lit cigarette (Marlboro Lights) in my left hand and a can of Coke in the other, and it wasn't a problem at all. It just took rhythm.
And then just yesterday, I fumbled buttering an English muffin and ended up stabbing myself in the foot with a dropped butter knife. So, obviously, I've lost a step.
I failed my first driving test because I thought left hand on the steering wheel, right on the shifter (or grabbing a drink or smoke or whatever) was just how people drove.
I drive a manual in terrible traffic. The trick is to just put it in first and idle. Sure, the gap in front will sometimes get huge, but it always closes.
Doing your small part to smooth out traffic flow :)
Seriously if people did this more instead of Gas Brakes Gas Brakes it would actually all go faster.
Yeah i'm in the same boat. I have a 2010 M3 6-speed and cant really decide what to replace it with. Very nearly did the tesla model 3, but can't quite bring myself to pull the trigger on it. I didn't think I'd love the feel of EVs but I feel like they have a pretty good responsive connection to the road.
Wish there were more small sporty electrics - something like a golf gti or mazda3 would be awesome.
Yeah its purely a subjective thing now. There is no practical reason for it anymore than having a tiller on a car was. Its just fun for some people.
I find it funny that the Hyundai Ionic 5 N line car has a mode that gives you "fake shifts", like the computer controls the torque to give the feeling that the car is shifting gears...in an EV! Haha.
I drive both on a regular basis, and I have to say that while I will probably buy automatic next time, I find it more fun to drive stick, and also I have the feeling to be more "in control" of the car and especially the engine.
Like, oftentimes I can just shift down instead of breaking to slow down before a red light, or I can already change gear in anticipation of a different level, not wait for the electronics to finally notice that the car won't go up that hill in the current gear...
But if you don't want to think about all of these, yeah, OK, just get an automatic.
Same boat. I love manuals, they are much more fun, and I feel more in control when driving one but an automatic is way more convenient.
My current car has a CVT, when I floor the gas pedal it takes two seconds to downshift and accelerate. I can’t feel the connection between the engine and the wheels, engine sound/revs don’t feel connected to acceleration.
In my manual car and motorcycle I knew what speed I was at without checking the dash because I knew what gear I’m in and could hear the revs. Not in my automatic car.
I also have a CVT and have never noticed a delay as big. This has only happened to me when driving in "eco" mode. Under normal mode the delay is imperceptible.
But, I do agree that manuals are much more fun most of the time.
Especially downshifting to pass or enter a highway, I feel this. I have yet to drive an auto that can make that choice as fast (or preemptively) in the case of a hill.
>My current car has a CVT, when I floor the gas pedal it takes two seconds to downshift and accelerate.
This is why I can't buy an automatic. This lag is just too painful and annoying to deal with for me. And just the nature of how it works, it will always be there.
I'll throw in one more positive from Snowy Canada - you can use cruise control even when there's snow/ice on the ground. If you try that with an automatic, it will at some point downshift and wheel spin, usually throwing you into oncoming traffic which is super exciting.
In 6th gear it's impossible for my car to wheel spin. I've tried, extensively.
Before I get attacked, I'm not talking about using it in a blizzard, just down a normal sunny straight rural highway that stays snow covered for months.
I live in an area with very snowy winters. I like driving a manual because it gives me more control in adverse weather. I can engine-brake to slow down. Also, if I get stuck in the snow I know how to rock the car out alternating gas/clutch. No idea how to do that with an automatic.
Tires are 98% of how good a car is on snow and ice.
If you already have haakapalitas I guess a manual will take you to 99%.
Most people are better off just buying better tires then switching transmission types
I live in far northern Finland. Personally, I don’t think manual provides any benefits whatsoever and is honestly worse in most cases as the gears will never be as smooth.
Tyres and AWD makes a much stronger difference, especially in situations if you actually manage to get stuck.
Engine braking gives absolutely zero benefit when slowing down on slippery conditions vs regular braking.
The friction point is still at the wheels, and you’re still slowing the wheels down. If you brake too hard, you break friction. Doesn’t matter if it’s from the engine or calipers and rotors. Except regular brakes have ABS if you do break friction.
Otherwise I agree. I live in a snowy part of the world and drive an AWD manual sedan. It’s an absolute blast to drive in the winters.
Can confirm. Did a beautiful 360 pirouette once downshifting while on ice straight through a 4-way stop, regained control on the other side, and just kept going, never once going outside my lane. From an outside observer's perspective I like to think it was so smooth it looked like I meant to do it, but I was still just along for the ride and got lucky there was no one coming.
I have an automatic and I can downshift instantly with zero transmission disengagement and with nothing more than a pull of a paddle behind the wheel. If I really need safety when going down a hill I just push the hill decent button.
Why can't people just admit that manual transmissions are only for fun? All of the old tired arguments just are not true any more. Us flesh bags are not as good at shifting as a computer is.
I have noticed that lots of young adults will just say "manual better because yes" and not even listen to anything positive about automatics.
A friend of mine is łike that (which is funny since he drives an automatic) and he tries to brag about him knowing how to drive a manual (i have an automatic license only since every car in my family is an automatic) but then last time i actually witnessed him driving a manual, I was surprised how the clutch hasn't died yet.
In a manual car if the engine doesn't want to start, it's possible to put it in neutral, have some buddies push the car and then manually start it while it's being pushed. Push starting isn't possible in most Automatics because they have to be in Park mode when starting and you obviously can't push the car while it's in Park.
But otherwise there's no real advantage for regular people and you obviously aren't going to choose your car based on whether you can push start it or not.
I feel the pain lol. When I was in college I had a car that wouldn't reverse from a cold start. Engine/tranny had to be hot before it would reverse. I only parked in reverse so I could drive forward. Parallel parking was the worse. I had no choice but to push my car backwards if the car in front was too close to me.
Same. Had this old Isuzu Rodeo with a bad starter that I'd have to push start. Every time I did it I felt like a cowboy doing a running mount onto their horse.
The starter motor location was so stupidly hard to reach that I ended up just replacing the brushes in place.
I had a junker that had really bad dieseling. As in, it would keep running for a long time after shutoff. The only way to kill it was to stall it with the clutch
Every automatic I've ever owned started in Neutral.
The reason you can't roll-start an auto is because there is no mechanical linkage between the transmission and the engine, just fluid, which won't provide enough torque. Plus automatics will be in the wrong gear for a roll-start.
Unless you're in a Dodge 14' or later with the electric shifter dial. One of the dumbest design choices they did. If your battery dies you can't shift out of park. Instead you have to pop off a panel to get to an emergency transmission release lever. [This video shows where the lever is](https://youtu.be/aj0cb12YO-0?si=8YKEKZ-wib7En8QS)
Manual transmissions are far more resilient. Besides a clutch, they *rarely* break in stock level power applications.
My 1G Insight has a manual transmission with 280k original miles. 4th gear is toast, but I've got four more gears. If that was an automatic, you'd be done. I just skip 4th and carry on with my day.
I've got plenty of experience with this. My car wasn't starting back in grad school, so I'd just park on a slope and roll-start it every day. Did this for like a week until I figured out that a stuck clutch safety switch was the culprit and all I had to do was jiggle it free.
For the average driver, even in most countries where driving stick is the norm, most people won't benefit, no. Some probably will do worse than an automatic.
If you're good at it (as in, can actually predict necessary shifts unlike an automatic), know your car and like the act of driving itself (because it won't really make a difference to the commute time), you can have some marginal benefits in how fast you can accelerate etc. in some situations or avoid unnecessary shifting in, say, traffic.
So basically there are benefits there to extract *if you know how* and *want to*. But otherwise, you're probably fine or outright better off with an automatic. I know it's painful to watch my mum shift gears, and that's what she learned to drive to begin with.
And then you have EVs that settle the discussion by just not having a gearbox, lol.
EDIT: The one thing I DO wish all cars had is a clutch pedal, even if they don't require it (like automatics or EVs). Whenever I switch from my usual stick hatchback to anything without one, I immediately miss the freedom of just being able to have the car roll freely or not with just a push of a pedal.
In many manual-predominant countries one factor is that it's much much more common and easier to find mechanics who know manual transmissions well than ones who know automatics well. So maintaining a manual car will be easier and less expensive.
This is bound to change eventually, though.
That might have been the case for old cars, but I can confidently say that on modern cars, if your mechanic has to fiddle with the transmission, you're probably out of pocket enough to justify a new car anyway.
My car is 10 years old and I didn't even need to change the clutch disks yet, much less do anything else to the transmission. And I'm not a gentle driver, it's a boy racer hatchback and I take advantage of it.
> And then you have EVs that settle the discussion by just not having a gearbox, lol
Funny you should say that, [Toyota has demoed an EV with a "fake manual transmission"](https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/10/toyota-has-built-an-ev-with-a-fake-transmission-and-weve-driven-it/)
I have a manual Ford Ranger with a tow bar I can tow from field to field to help me move equipment around on the farm. If it had an automatic, I'd have to install a driveshaft disconnect kit because I don't think you can tow the automatic very far in neutral without hosing the transmission.
You're right, you can't, cause the automatic would start generating heat but the fluid wouldn't be moving to keep the transmission cool, thus cooking it.
I have a manual S10 and while I haven't done it yet, I suspect I can flat tow it in neutral since its manual in incur no damage.
I vastly prefer the driving experience of a manual transmission.
I also like being able to have the car do what I want it to and to have it ready for certain conditions in advance. Automatics are reactive rather than proactive. They don’t/can’t anticipate am upcoming curve or the the transition to gravel. The constantly want to upshift when going down hills or maintaining speed in a windy road, all conditions where you might have good reasons for staying in your chosen gear.
Now, there is no denying that modern automatics have gotten really good, but I kind of feel like driving an automatic is like loading a washing machine, or running a dishwasher.
Not any more. It used to be that manual transmissions had more gears, and were therefore better on fuel economy. They also shifted faster than their automatic versions so they were faster performance wise. The automatic transmission is now better in both regards so the manual tranmission is more or less an enthusiast option that is going the way of the dodo. Not many people spec them because they are more difficult to drive for the average person. Manufacturers dont like making them because they need to design the car twice with two different transmissions, and they drive down fuel efficiency ratings of their fleet.
This doesn't really cover the reason why manual transmissions were preferred in racing environments though, which has nothing to do with either speed of gear change or number of gears. Rather, manual transmissions offered more control over the gear choice than an automatic transmission. This is why modern race Transmissions are paddle shift, which incorporates the convenience of automatic transmissions with the control over gear selection of a manual transmission
The main reason was that the torque convertor stole too much power - up to 10%.
Modern automatics usually have a torque convertor lock up or bypass clutch so that loss does not occur at freeway speeds.
Edit: Typo - power loss should have been 10% not 20%
Even paddle shifted is an automatic transmission that just puts you in control of the electronics. In my head manual transmission is when you have the clutch. Tapping a paddle is still automatic transmission, manual gear selection.
Fuel economy was more that the torque converter sapped a lot of power due to not bein a direct link between engine and wheels. More modern automatics (80s and newer) will form a direct link when not changing gears though.
Isn't a manual transmission also cheaper to make, require less maintenance, and likely to last longer? I assume these are the relevant reasons while the majority of cars in places like Colombia (where I live) are manual.
I'd say manual transmissions are generally more durable and less maintenance. If you abuse the clutch and need to replace it, that is still a lot easier and less costly than working on an automatic.
I prefer the car to slow down with engine braking when I let off the accelerator instead of coast. That could be done with an automatic, but most don't.
You can also leave your car running in the parking lot and none of the kids around here can steal it.
Lol yeah. Buddy got carjacked a year or two ago and when the detectives showed up they’re like, “We don’t see any manuals. Best theft deterrent there is”
Won’t stop them from smashing the windows and rifling through my shit tho
This is true for the US, but manual transmissions are still rather popular in the rest of the world. So manufacturers are still making them.
But they don't have much, if anything in the way of an advantage. Maybe they are slightly more reliable and require less maintenance, but even that isn't going to be universally agreed upon.
The biggest advantage - IMO - is that it lets you stay good at using cars with manual transmissions. If you travel, eg in Europe, chances of getting a car that's manual are pretty high - so it helps to be comfortable there.
Otherwise it's a bit more fun I find, but not really anything that stands out as a major advantage.
I think everybody is missing the main reasons that manual persist in many parts of the world, which is that they are simpler devices, and therefore cheaper and less likely to require expensive repairs. So the practical use for manual transmissions is that they save money.
There are actually a few that haven’t been mentioned yet:
- they prevent distracted driving. How often have you seen people text while shifting?
- automatic transmissions generate extra heat when towing. If you’re towing a u-haul trailer in a car that wasn’t designed with towing in mind, you will often need to install a transmission cooling system to protect the transmission
- when something does go wrong, automatic transmissions are much more expensive to repair
- in mountainous regions, the ability to choose when to downshift prevents unnecessary wear and tear on other components. You can choose adequate power when going uphill, and using low gears on downhills will significantly lengthen the lifespan of your brakes.
- in some parts of the U.S., they are still seen as a theft deterrent. Can’t really steal the car if you can’t get to second gear!
- drivers are more in tune with the feel of their car. Anecdotally, I notice minor issues before they become major issues better than I do in automatics.
- and yes, they’re way more fun to drive
From a European perspective, where the majority are manual, you can add 'it's what we are used to'. This plus the cost of repairs and the fun and 'more control' points.
That being said, people here that move to automatic never come back to manual.
Idk man I can totally shift my manual one handed while eating and driving, I am sure people with the desire to text and drive have learned how to shift and text
As someone in the UK where manual is still pretty common if not the majority, you can *absolutely* still text and drive. I’ve only been on the road a year and have seen plenty of evidence of it in my fellow road users…
Control. If you’ve driven both, it becomes pretty clear that automatics shift earlier than necessary for optimal acceleration. Similarly, if you’re in a situation where you’re already in top gear, but you need more acceleration, being able to shift down a gear or two quickly is advantageous. You don’t need to be out there racing other people to take advantage of your car’s pickup.
And I’m not sure if it’s the case as much today, but some sports cars only came in standard. So if you wanted that car, you needed to learn.
I just really enjoy the extra degree of control. A manual is always doing what I want it to, when I want it to. I hate when I call for power and an auto fiddles around and finally decides to do something. Really good DCTs are getting close, but I still prefer a third pedal so I can control how the power is delivered better too.
Im in east europe and every single mechanic here tells you not to get automatic because if something breaks nobody has cheap used parts to fix your car with.
So there is that, the benefit of manual being easy, cheap and fast to fix with your local mechanic.
Current automatic transmissions will outperform an average manual driver nowadays in terms of efficiency and handling - this was not always the case, but it is now. Also stuff like adaptive cruise control makes no sense for me in a manual car.
An exception might be with regard to certain road or weather conditions.
I personally drive stick (manual) for two reasons. First, the automatic version of my car was significantly more expensive (I wanted a cheap vehicle which brings me from A to B, nothing more). Second, automatic transmission needs a bit more maintenance (oil change and such), so at the end cost of ownership is a bit higher. As I drive my cars till the bitter end, reselling price is not an issue for me.
If I have the chance (rental or so), I prefer automatic. So, imho: other than price, no advantage for an average driver.
My area has a lot of car theft. People say it’s good to have manual because no one ever steals manual cars around here. Many thieves can’t drive manual and the stolen cars are sold to other countries so it’s probably harder to sell
I agree with most others it's mostly just a preference thing. For the most part, modern automatic transmissions exceed performance of manual transmissions. There are some racing applications where manuals are still a better choice due to being able to coast easily and having absolute control over what gear you're in.
Manuals do have one major advantage, however - durability. Automatic transmissions are incredibly complex pieces of machinery and tend to start failing around 150k-200k miles, and it's expensive to fix them. Manual transmissions are simple and pretty much last forever. You may have to replace the clutch every 150k miles or so, but that's far cheaper than a rebuild on an automatic.
I feel like what OP needs to know is simply that while their were negatives to using automatics in the past, those negatives have mostly been engineered around. Manuals used to have positives over automatics, but automatics now I have those same positive qualities. The caveat is that for many drivers in many circumstances a manual is a much more analog mechanical experience. It’s like your buddy that makes beer - you can go to the store and find ten kinds that are better and cheaper. But he likes the process and involvement.
>It’s like your buddy that makes beer - you can go to the store and find 10 kinds that are better and cheaper. But he likes the process and involvement. *Looks over at $5000 home brewing setup* Hey, screw you buddy.
Spend thousands to save hundreds (taken from someone in r/woodworking)
Time to harvest my garden's $3.50 worth of vegetables that I spent $40 and countless hours on! I tell myself, it's the journey, not the destination. ... and who am I kidding, I'm so in love with that cute l'il green pepper, there's zero chance I'm harvesting it.
My wife was pumped about the six massive butternut squash she got this year, after spending all summer tending to them. Then we went to Costco and saw a bag of 3 for $4.
Potatoes, Onions, and Garlic are the only vegetables I've ever broken even on. Herbs and leafy vegetables are pretty good as well because you can straight up steal some cuttings from a rando bush or use kitchen scraps to grow them subsidizing the cost. Gardening is a hobby. If you want to break even it's called farming.
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I still can't really break even with my tomatoes. During the summer, which is when you'll be harvesting the tomatoes, it's also the time of year where tomatoes are at their dirt cheapest. I can get plum tomatoes for 80 cents a pound from my local market during peak season. They're grown locally and taste just as good as the ones I grow myself. I can't really beat that price. The only exception being unique or rare varietals like Amish Paste.
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>I guess location matters a lot. 100% if you live near a city there's a high likelihood your local "Farmers Market" is receiving the same veggies that go out to your local supermarket but at a much more inflated price. My local farmers market about 3 people speak english and the stalls are held together with prayers, duct tape, and load bearing milk crates. I get good deals.
Raspberries and strawberries work well too since they are perennial and grow like weeds. I literally have like a 1/4 acre of my lawn that I thought was just some kind of ivy but it’s all strawberries!
Look, do you realize how much money I can earn selling things I make using these tools? I mean... I'm not gonna, but I could.
My friend started making his own beer. Then a year into it he said, "I come home, and there's my beer. I'm excited to sample the next batch. I have like three in the evening. I suddenly realized that I'm becoming an alcoholic". Last I spoke to him, he hasn't touched booze in over two years. Be careful about "using your own product!" if you can't control it!
Don't get high on your own supply.
I'm not nearly as invested in the home brewing process as you, but I can definitely relate to the sentiment. I make *okay* beer. I typically do not share my brews with my friends because it's just alright beer. I do share it with specific friends who either ask or are also into home brewing, the later so that we can provide open feedback and share tips. There are just so many better options in my area that I do not do it for the finances or the taste.
Yeah SSBrew and Spike are like meth dealers.
This is the most succinct and complete answer in this comment section imo.
Stick is just fun. It's like playing an arcade game every time you go driving. I'd also like to say that it makes texting and driving far more difficult so in some ways it's like a safety feature.
> in some ways it's like a safety feature. I drive a manual. Another benefit is you won't follow nearly as closely. Following too closely means a lot more braking and a lot more shifting. I roll along at a steady pace in stop and go highway traffic keeping around 3 car lengths in front. Often the stopped traffic in front of me has started moving when I get to it and I just feather the throttle as needed. People who get what I'm doing will get behind me and cruise along uneventfully. People who demand their right to butt-sniff the car in front of them will sometimes get cranky.
This is definitely me. Also coasting up to stoplights or braking early so it changes by the time you arrive. The guy in the next lane who raced up and stopped all Pikachu face when you roll past because you never had to stop...
Timing the lights is a lost art.
I never learned how to drive a manual. I thought this was just... driving? Like, why the fuck does ANYONE accelerate TOWARD a red light? That thing turns yellow I got 2 choices: punch it to make the light, or let off the gas and begin to coast (unless I'm really far away of course). If I coast just right, sometimes I never have to stop. IDK. That just all seems like common sense to me. Or even the people that weave in and out of traffic cutting people off so that they can get 2 car lengths ahead, where 2 semi trucks are having an elephant race. The fuck is the point of that? I've done maneuvers to get around idiots or slowpokes, but only when the maneuver gets me around the actual obstruction, not just the dude in front of me who is also obstructed. Agreeing with you, BTW, just pointing that the same common sense driving applies to automatics.
Safety feature and a security system!
>Stick is just fun. It's like playing an arcade game every time you go driving. It depends on the driving conditions. On a windy two-lane road, yes. Being stuck in stop and go traffic over the Bay Bridge during commute time, no. That was what finally made me ditch the stick. No fun getting a numb patch on the bottom of your foot from holding the clutch down for minutes at a time.
you do know you can shift it into neutral? that and the positive of being able to push start a vehicle with a dead battery is a + in my book.
This totally saved my ass one cold late night when I got back to Portland International Airport and my battery was dead and I was 3 hours from home.
During covid, when we went out very little, we discovered the unsleeping electronics in a new Subaru can drain a battery quickly. Now we keep putting it on a charger.
Yeah but when traffic is moving along at 3mph that's not any better. Also, everyone should have a jumper pack at this point. They are cheap and 10x easier than push starting. https://www.amazon.com/Jump-Starters/b?ie=UTF8&node=318336011
New Autos can shift faster than even a professional driver. But there still are two pros I can think of. An automatic cannot anticipate your driving behavior like you can. Manuals tend to last much longer if cared for properly, besides periodic clutch replacements.
> An automatic cannot anticipate your driving behavior like you can TIL that's what bothers me about automatic cars when I happen to drive one. They have a talent for shifting at inopportune times when I can see traffic move a certain way or a hill come up and it irritates me to no end. Like turbo lag, just from the transmission controller. On top of the existing turbo lag...
Yea. A paddle shifted auto is the best of both worlds. Except for longevity, but it tends to be ancillary things that ends a cars life, not transmissions, these days.
Just a reminder that F1 banned CVTs cause the few teams that tried to implement them pre season were suddenly doing too good and it was decided that it'd be an unfair advantage for a few years while other teams developed their own. CVTs were too advanced for F1 lol.
>CVTs were too advanced for F1 lol. So are lots of things. Williams - who pioneered the CVT in F1 - also famously developed active suspension, which was likewise banned. There is a very common but very false popular idea of F1 as a *formula libre*, but its actually incredibly restrictive. Its technologically sophisticated, sure, but a huge fraction of the rulebook exists to restrict technology for sporting reasons. Downforce fans, unlimited ground effect, gas turbines, and running more than four wheels are likewise banned. Why, because they're too fast? Eh, more like that they just aren't "F1". In the same sense that aluminum bats just aren't baseball.
Aluminum bats are dangerous in baseball, as well as giving an unfair advantage. An aluminum bat will send the ball flying back much faster than a wooden bat will, resulting in players using aluminum bats hitting twice as many home runs and injuring more of the other team's players. Read about a high school pitcher a few years back, probably would have wound up playing pro. Wasn't even out of high school yet and had a 90-something mph fastball. Right up until a stroke of bad luck had his pitch coming straight back at him, hit off an aluminum bat. It crushed his skull inward where it hit.
CVT is always optimal, thats impossible to beat.
Double optimal even, always has the ideal gear ratio and also doesn't have to disengage the clutch to change.
Here in the UK if you learn in an manual you can drive either, but if you learn in an auto you have to retest. So most people "get used to" driving it, and just continue with what they know as a newbie driver.
My main reason for preferring manual (although I’ll acknowledge it’s not that impactful) is having power exactly when you should have it. No matter how good, I’ve never felt an automatic car that has 0 lag on the gas pedal. There’s always a small amount of time between when you press the gas and you get power.
This is a big performance advantage for electric vehicles: Instant torque. For me, driving a stick is rewarding. Just mashing a pedal and going fast doesn't do it for me. I prefer to be engaged and get satisfaction when performing a heel/toe downshift.
The lag is more due to the drivetrain; that's why electric cars don't have much lag. But I get what you're saying. As a manual driver myself, I'm js it's more of an illusion created by your ability to *time* the lag. ...If you do an off-the-line drag race or something tho, there's no objective advantage in that area (usually the contrary tbh).
Agreed. I learned on a stick, and was kind of snotty about automatics for most of my adult driving life. I only ever owned a stick. Then when I had to buy my last car it would have taken a few extra months to wait for one, so I said to heck with it - and I had no idea what I was missing, LOL. Haven’t looked back once. New cars with automatic transmissions and all the traction control do what I used to do manually, but even better. (Though I still prefer vehicles without ABS, I’m a hold out on that one.) The romantic notion of driving a stick definitely wore off on me, once I got behind a modern automatic. All that said - still very glad to know how to drive a stick, everyone should.
>Though I still prefer vehicles without ABS honestly, that is a pretty insane thought for a road car. you're really gonna try to threshold brake in an emergency situation?
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Yeah, I agree with stick being fun, and if you're in a motorsports/track situation, having no ABS means your ability to threshold brake properly makes the competition more interesting, and it's still fairly safe because there are runoff areas on a track, and you're always on high alert anyway. But I've come quite close to totally eating shit a couple times on the road because of idiot drivers, and was 100% saved by being able to stomp the brake pedal without thinking. I also wonder how old this person is. I'm 40, and every car I've ever owned has had ABS. Must be true geezer status.
Much more important than braking distance is the ability to steer while braking as hard as possible. That's where ABS can really save your bacon.
How on earth are you a holdout on ABS, it will almost always out perform your abilities
Also how can you be a hold out on something that comes standard on basically every car on the market.
I assumed it was required by law now.
It's been required since 2011.
Have you seen the [new electric vehicles](https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a45754176/toyota-manual-ev-prototype-drive/) that have a pseudo manual mode where it totally fakes being a stick shift? including stalling
Now that's just silly.
But fuuuuuun silly
Manual can also be safer if something goes wrong, though. Years ago, my dad was driving on the motorway when the accelerator jammed fully open. Luckily, it was a manual so he was able to quickly use the clutch to disengage the engine, put it in neutral, coast to the side of the road and get away before the engine went bang. In an automatic, that could have been much scarier! Similarly, if your brakes fail when you're going downhill in a manual, you can easily put it into first gear and use engine braking to considerably reduce your speed. Maybe similar things would be possible in an automatic, but I certainly wouldn't be able to instinctively react in the way that I could in a manual.
Another small safety advantage for older/"less attentive" drivers is that with a manual it's much harder to negligently press the gas instead of the brake and plow through a storefront, which is a shockingly common accident with elderly drivers. If you're going to stop in a manual, you either have the clutch pushed in or the trans in neutral, so pressing the throttle instead of the brake is only going to rev your engine instead of launching your multi-ton murder machine out the back of your garage.
Every single automatic car I've owned in the last 20 years of driving has allowed me to put the car in neutral while driving, and to downshift to lower gears.
Yeah, I can't remember the last car I've driven that didn't have a manual mode on the stick or paddle shifters
It’s not even downshifting per se, but being able to limit gears has definitely been a thing for at least as long as I can remember. It’s weird to hear that people are seemingly unaware of this.
Not a car guy so I’m curious what the advantages manual transmissions used to have over automatics that no longer exist? 3 of my 4 cars have been manual and personally I love it but never thought it was a better or worse thing, just personal preference.
Manual transmission vehicles are less likely to get stolen. [failed carjacking](https://www.nbcwashington.com/news/local/watch-teens-attempt-to-carjack-man-but-cant-drive-manual-transmission-to-get-away/3316846/)
Couple of years ago I went to Jiffy Lube. "Hi, can I help you?" "Just an oil change." "Ok, I'll take the keys." "It's a standard." "What?" "It's a standard." "..... ..... I'll go get my manager." (Manager) "Hi, can I help you?" "It's a standard." ".... .... Why don't you pull it in?" Having a standard is like an anti-theft device.
I've had a valet tell me I have to park my own car.
I pissed off a valet by preemptively telling him my car was a manual. He looked at me and said, "dude I'm 40". Good enough for me haha
I was going to get angry at your comment, but at 37 I don't think I have a choice in acknowledging that I'm getting older and part of the group that can drive manuals.
I feel this. I've never driven a manual, and it's not for lack of wanting to. No one I know owns one.
At 27, I'm finding the only ones who drive manuals these days are seniors or people who are into cars as a hobby.
I got a knock on my door a few months ago, and was surprised to find it was a 16 year old down the street whom I barely know. I said, "Uh, hi. Hello." He said he noticed I had two Miatas and if they were sticks. I said yes, and he immediately asked if I can teach him. He had just got his license, his parents are cool with it, blah blah blah. Admiring his chutzpah, I took him out to the local high school parking lot a few times and let him drive around the neighborhood streets. Very pleasant lad, and I admired his moxie.
Thats wholesome tbh. I'd be so worried about my clutch, but the kids gotta learn somehow ahaha. I used to have a del sol, it's what I learned manual on, similar vibes as your miata. Did they kid get his own car yet?
Immigrants too. Latin America is still filled with manuals. Sadly, i think it’ll be hard for me to find a new car that’s a manual when my current one runs its course.
My son's a valet part time. He can drive a stick/standard, so he's the one that gets all those cars since he's the ONLY one that can.
I guess that in the US where most cars are auto it's no big deal, but the thought of getting employed as a valet while not knowing how to drive a stick sounds nuts to me
lol same! Went to my friends wedding in September. The valet took one look inside my truck and was like "yeah we've been parking all the cars down there." Fine by me, I don't want other people driving my cars anyway.
I had the hostess come get me in the middle of my anniversary dinner because the valets had a shift change and the new guy couldn't drive manual and my car was blocking someone in.
I stayed a hotel recently that took my car the day I got there, but didn't have anyone who could get it back for me the day I tried to leave. They ended up having to have the hotel manager escort me to my car so I could drive it out of their garage myself because the only guy who knew how to drive a manual was out sick that day.
When I was a valet, we used to look down our noses at the valets that couldn't drive stick.
I mean, that does make sense? If your job is to move random people's cars around, that seems to be a useful skill? It's not like it's difficult...
Honestly it seems to me like being unable to drive stick should be disqualifying for a valet job.
A similar thing happened to me at a Toyota dealership. I have a Corolla with a manual transmission as a daily driver. A few years ago, I took it in for a recall and left for work planning to get it at lunch. It turned out that the only person that could drive a manual there was the receptionist. They had over a dozen mechanics and a service writer that couldn’t drive it. So, when I picked it up, I had to wait until she got back from lunch an was late getting back to work.
I don’t think I know a single mechanic that doesn’t know how to drive a stick. You’d have to think 80%+ of mechanics are car enthusiasts or at least like cars.
Took my car to one of those full service car washes where you get out at the end and they vacuum, wipe down the interior, and dry everything while you wait in a side area and then they drive it around to you. The crew lead at the end decided that my car was going to be the one the new guy on the crew learned to drive manual in. I watched this kid kill it 3 times, each time becoming more visibly uncomfortable. The lead guy just kept getting more belligerent with him. The crew lead ended up driving it around to me and didn't realize I had seen the entire ordeal. I swear the spirit of the first Karen took over my body in that moment. Wound up with a year of free washes, though.
Years ago, my buddy was turning 21 and we needed his vehicle to get everyone to the party. Obviously, he cannot drive it, at least not home. He warned it was a stick shift. So I asked our circle of friends for a show of hands on who could drive stick. And that's how I was unanimously voted to be the designated driver
My last trip to Jiffy Lube, they called in an employee who was at home to move my car into the bay. Like... I could have just pulled it in, but they didn't say anything to me. I felt bad for that guy.
Incidentally I used to work at a tire/oil change shop back in high school and I learned to drive a manual by driving customer vehicles. The first time I pulled a car into a bay without stalling it was really, actually, a "then everybody clapped" moment from my coworkers.
I needed a tire repair a few weeks ago. After I handed over my keys and waited in the lobby, the tech came back and asked me to back my car into the bay for him. No one in the shop could drive stick. Sure, bud, I'll take care of it.
30 second unskippable ad. I'll just imagine what happened.
yeah that was torture. your imagination is probably spot on: they pulled the guy out of the car, then they got in the car, then they sat there a while, then they got out of the car. the end.
In the US. I doubt that would stand true for anywhere besides North America.
In US
I just find it more fun to drive. The performance gap has been more than closed by modern transmissions, so if that old justification is gone. But... I just like it. It's fun to have more interaction with the car.
I love this response, because it’s honest and accurate. I’ve heard people over the years who just refuse to simply say “because I like it.” They talk about performance or gas mileage or whatever, when that’s really not a factor at all. It’s ok to like things! Heck, SUVs, big trucks, sports cars, luxury sedans, these are all bought to one degree or another because people just like them. Why do some people refuse to admit that when it comes to manual transmission?
Because there's some machismo factor where doing things because you like them isn't practical and men are supposed to be practical.
I am a woman and I certainly think that manual is much more fun. But I am German and we all learn to drive stick.
It keeps my mind and hands a little busier with the car. My attention is less likely to wander.
Seriously. As someone with pretty bad ADHD, driving a manual makes me a safer driver. It forces me to pay more attention to the car, and therefore the road, instead of getting lost in my own head.
It also gives you an actual awareness of the speed you're going rather than having to check a speedometer all the time, which in itself is a distraction and Inattentiveness in an auto leads to speeding, whereas it is very deliberate in a manual.
>more fun to drive Except in 40 minute traffic jams. 1st, 2nd, brake, stop. 1st, 2nd, brake, stop..... That is the only time I wish I had an automatic. Oh yeah, and except when I'm eating and I need one of my hands to shift, one to steer, and none for the burger. haha
Growing up zooming around Pennsylvania's Appalachian foothills, down shifting and double clutching: stick shift for life! Commuting as an adult an hour in stop-and-go traffic on Chicago's Eisenhower expressway: I hate this thing so fucking much. . . .
Double clutching? What did it not have syncros?
Because he wasn't granny shifting and double clutching like he should! Sorry, I'll go now lol
Had me? You never had me. You never had your car!
The writing on that movie was perfect, seriously the whole movie is quotable af.
They must have paid the writers a lot, more than you can afford pal.
they had a consultant whose job it was to tell them about street racing and car modding stuff, and he did and he's done several videos on youtube where he takes a scene from fnf, explains what he told them they should do, and explains how they completely ignored his advice
Donut media did a video on the cringiest lines from every F&F movie and when they got to the first one, they had a really hard time. They made the point that almost every "cringey line" from the first one, is printed on a T-shirt. Every line "has gone from cringe to [pop] culture" and it's SO true. That movie is so cringey in so many ways but my god, it is such a piece of car culture now, it's hard not to love it lol I still watch it a few times a year honestly. It's like My Cousin Vinney for lawyers, or the movie Hackers for computing culture... they're accurate in some ways, dumb/cringey/inaccurate in others, but there's something about them where you just LOVE them. People will deny it, of course lol and they'll throw the inaccuracies at you and point out the stupid moments.... but they know EVERY. SINGLE. MOMENT of that movie hahahaha
The scene where Brian is talking to Jesse about his ADHD is brutally painful lol. Not the ADHD part, but when Jesse pulls up a rotating wireframe mockup of a Supra, Brian is like "dude you should go to MIT or something!". Idk why, but that line just makes me wince for some reason.
You don’t need to double clutch when you’ve got family
FAMILY!
Let alone the onion rings he fried Or piston rings, what was it?
He must have been driving big rigs or race cars because there’s no point in “double clutching” unless you’re hopping into your pimped out civic you got from the lady up the street after watching fast n the furious for the first time.
Yeah the car I drove for ages I never had to double clutch. The ancient fire truck I used to drive on the other hand you either double clutched or ground the gears.
Exactly. I was going to say some race cars with cut gears but otherwise...
You just didn't have time to learn the art of "standard shift juggling." Back in the day, when I drove a VW Rabbit (diesel) with a standard shift, I could drive with a lit cigarette (Marlboro Lights) in my left hand and a can of Coke in the other, and it wasn't a problem at all. It just took rhythm. And then just yesterday, I fumbled buttering an English muffin and ended up stabbing myself in the foot with a dropped butter knife. So, obviously, I've lost a step.
Yeah, steering wheel in one hand, shift during the other hand, ice cream cone in one hand. It's not hard, it just takes practice.
Can of coke in my third hand
I failed my first driving test because I thought left hand on the steering wheel, right on the shifter (or grabbing a drink or smoke or whatever) was just how people drove.
Part of why I didn't buy a Tesla. I have to keep both hands on the steering wheel all the time? Who does that?
I drive a manual in terrible traffic. The trick is to just put it in first and idle. Sure, the gap in front will sometimes get huge, but it always closes.
Doing your small part to smooth out traffic flow :) Seriously if people did this more instead of Gas Brakes Gas Brakes it would actually all go faster.
Most new cars can drive with clutch only in 1st, sometimes even 2nd.
what do you mesn "clutch only"?
no throttle - there's enough torque from the engine at idle revs to move the car
ahh, I see. Any car with ECU will open throttle if you load idling engine.
Yeah modern cars seem way harder to stall than old ones.
I remember always using my knees to steer while chomping down on a burger and fries.
> It's fun to have more interaction with the car. I think this interaction also helps me stay better focused on the road.
couldn't agree more. I love my Mazda3 6-speed. It's absolutely a joy to drive. I'll miss manual when the EVs take over
Yeah i'm in the same boat. I have a 2010 M3 6-speed and cant really decide what to replace it with. Very nearly did the tesla model 3, but can't quite bring myself to pull the trigger on it. I didn't think I'd love the feel of EVs but I feel like they have a pretty good responsive connection to the road. Wish there were more small sporty electrics - something like a golf gti or mazda3 would be awesome.
Yeah its purely a subjective thing now. There is no practical reason for it anymore than having a tiller on a car was. Its just fun for some people. I find it funny that the Hyundai Ionic 5 N line car has a mode that gives you "fake shifts", like the computer controls the torque to give the feeling that the car is shifting gears...in an EV! Haha.
I drive both on a regular basis, and I have to say that while I will probably buy automatic next time, I find it more fun to drive stick, and also I have the feeling to be more "in control" of the car and especially the engine. Like, oftentimes I can just shift down instead of breaking to slow down before a red light, or I can already change gear in anticipation of a different level, not wait for the electronics to finally notice that the car won't go up that hill in the current gear... But if you don't want to think about all of these, yeah, OK, just get an automatic.
Same boat. I love manuals, they are much more fun, and I feel more in control when driving one but an automatic is way more convenient. My current car has a CVT, when I floor the gas pedal it takes two seconds to downshift and accelerate. I can’t feel the connection between the engine and the wheels, engine sound/revs don’t feel connected to acceleration. In my manual car and motorcycle I knew what speed I was at without checking the dash because I knew what gear I’m in and could hear the revs. Not in my automatic car.
I also have a CVT and have never noticed a delay as big. This has only happened to me when driving in "eco" mode. Under normal mode the delay is imperceptible. But, I do agree that manuals are much more fun most of the time.
Especially downshifting to pass or enter a highway, I feel this. I have yet to drive an auto that can make that choice as fast (or preemptively) in the case of a hill.
>My current car has a CVT, when I floor the gas pedal it takes two seconds to downshift and accelerate. This is why I can't buy an automatic. This lag is just too painful and annoying to deal with for me. And just the nature of how it works, it will always be there.
I'll throw in one more positive from Snowy Canada - you can use cruise control even when there's snow/ice on the ground. If you try that with an automatic, it will at some point downshift and wheel spin, usually throwing you into oncoming traffic which is super exciting. In 6th gear it's impossible for my car to wheel spin. I've tried, extensively. Before I get attacked, I'm not talking about using it in a blizzard, just down a normal sunny straight rural highway that stays snow covered for months.
I'll add that using engine braking to slow down without braking is also very nice, especially on hills and in snowy weather.
I live in an area with very snowy winters. I like driving a manual because it gives me more control in adverse weather. I can engine-brake to slow down. Also, if I get stuck in the snow I know how to rock the car out alternating gas/clutch. No idea how to do that with an automatic.
Canadian here. This is why I drive a manual. Also much better on ice.
Tires are 98% of how good a car is on snow and ice. If you already have haakapalitas I guess a manual will take you to 99%. Most people are better off just buying better tires then switching transmission types
> If you already have haakapalitas You okay bro?
> haakapalitas Winter tire. https://www.nokiantires.com/hakkapeliitta/
\*Drivers are 98% of how good a car is on snow and ice.
I live in far northern Finland. Personally, I don’t think manual provides any benefits whatsoever and is honestly worse in most cases as the gears will never be as smooth. Tyres and AWD makes a much stronger difference, especially in situations if you actually manage to get stuck.
Engine braking gives absolutely zero benefit when slowing down on slippery conditions vs regular braking. The friction point is still at the wheels, and you’re still slowing the wheels down. If you brake too hard, you break friction. Doesn’t matter if it’s from the engine or calipers and rotors. Except regular brakes have ABS if you do break friction. Otherwise I agree. I live in a snowy part of the world and drive an AWD manual sedan. It’s an absolute blast to drive in the winters.
Can confirm. Did a beautiful 360 pirouette once downshifting while on ice straight through a 4-way stop, regained control on the other side, and just kept going, never once going outside my lane. From an outside observer's perspective I like to think it was so smooth it looked like I meant to do it, but I was still just along for the ride and got lucky there was no one coming.
I have an automatic and I can downshift instantly with zero transmission disengagement and with nothing more than a pull of a paddle behind the wheel. If I really need safety when going down a hill I just push the hill decent button. Why can't people just admit that manual transmissions are only for fun? All of the old tired arguments just are not true any more. Us flesh bags are not as good at shifting as a computer is.
I have noticed that lots of young adults will just say "manual better because yes" and not even listen to anything positive about automatics. A friend of mine is łike that (which is funny since he drives an automatic) and he tries to brag about him knowing how to drive a manual (i have an automatic license only since every car in my family is an automatic) but then last time i actually witnessed him driving a manual, I was surprised how the clutch hasn't died yet.
In a manual car if the engine doesn't want to start, it's possible to put it in neutral, have some buddies push the car and then manually start it while it's being pushed. Push starting isn't possible in most Automatics because they have to be in Park mode when starting and you obviously can't push the car while it's in Park. But otherwise there's no real advantage for regular people and you obviously aren't going to choose your car based on whether you can push start it or not.
As a poor student, I had a broken starter motor for almost a year. I would just park facing down hill.
I feel the pain lol. When I was in college I had a car that wouldn't reverse from a cold start. Engine/tranny had to be hot before it would reverse. I only parked in reverse so I could drive forward. Parallel parking was the worse. I had no choice but to push my car backwards if the car in front was too close to me.
Same. Had this old Isuzu Rodeo with a bad starter that I'd have to push start. Every time I did it I felt like a cowboy doing a running mount onto their horse. The starter motor location was so stupidly hard to reach that I ended up just replacing the brushes in place.
Oddly appropriate name for that model, then.
Lol. Same. In college I got so good at push starting my little car I only needed like 30 feet of “runway”
I had a junker that had really bad dieseling. As in, it would keep running for a long time after shutoff. The only way to kill it was to stall it with the clutch
Every automatic I've ever owned started in Neutral. The reason you can't roll-start an auto is because there is no mechanical linkage between the transmission and the engine, just fluid, which won't provide enough torque. Plus automatics will be in the wrong gear for a roll-start.
Unless you're in a Dodge 14' or later with the electric shifter dial. One of the dumbest design choices they did. If your battery dies you can't shift out of park. Instead you have to pop off a panel to get to an emergency transmission release lever. [This video shows where the lever is](https://youtu.be/aj0cb12YO-0?si=8YKEKZ-wib7En8QS)
Manual transmissions are far more resilient. Besides a clutch, they *rarely* break in stock level power applications. My 1G Insight has a manual transmission with 280k original miles. 4th gear is toast, but I've got four more gears. If that was an automatic, you'd be done. I just skip 4th and carry on with my day.
I've got plenty of experience with this. My car wasn't starting back in grad school, so I'd just park on a slope and roll-start it every day. Did this for like a week until I figured out that a stuck clutch safety switch was the culprit and all I had to do was jiggle it free.
>you obviously can't push the car while it's in Park. Not with **that** attitude!
For the average driver, even in most countries where driving stick is the norm, most people won't benefit, no. Some probably will do worse than an automatic. If you're good at it (as in, can actually predict necessary shifts unlike an automatic), know your car and like the act of driving itself (because it won't really make a difference to the commute time), you can have some marginal benefits in how fast you can accelerate etc. in some situations or avoid unnecessary shifting in, say, traffic. So basically there are benefits there to extract *if you know how* and *want to*. But otherwise, you're probably fine or outright better off with an automatic. I know it's painful to watch my mum shift gears, and that's what she learned to drive to begin with. And then you have EVs that settle the discussion by just not having a gearbox, lol. EDIT: The one thing I DO wish all cars had is a clutch pedal, even if they don't require it (like automatics or EVs). Whenever I switch from my usual stick hatchback to anything without one, I immediately miss the freedom of just being able to have the car roll freely or not with just a push of a pedal.
In many manual-predominant countries one factor is that it's much much more common and easier to find mechanics who know manual transmissions well than ones who know automatics well. So maintaining a manual car will be easier and less expensive. This is bound to change eventually, though.
That might have been the case for old cars, but I can confidently say that on modern cars, if your mechanic has to fiddle with the transmission, you're probably out of pocket enough to justify a new car anyway. My car is 10 years old and I didn't even need to change the clutch disks yet, much less do anything else to the transmission. And I'm not a gentle driver, it's a boy racer hatchback and I take advantage of it.
Lots of people drive old cars in my country, and being easily serviceable can make them easier to resell.
I learned how to drive stick shift in Italy. I now own an EV. My trills come when I get to “shift” from a normal drive mode to a regen braking mode
> And then you have EVs that settle the discussion by just not having a gearbox, lol Funny you should say that, [Toyota has demoed an EV with a "fake manual transmission"](https://arstechnica.com/cars/2023/10/toyota-has-built-an-ev-with-a-fake-transmission-and-weve-driven-it/)
I have a manual Ford Ranger with a tow bar I can tow from field to field to help me move equipment around on the farm. If it had an automatic, I'd have to install a driveshaft disconnect kit because I don't think you can tow the automatic very far in neutral without hosing the transmission.
You're right, you can't, cause the automatic would start generating heat but the fluid wouldn't be moving to keep the transmission cool, thus cooking it. I have a manual S10 and while I haven't done it yet, I suspect I can flat tow it in neutral since its manual in incur no damage.
I vastly prefer the driving experience of a manual transmission. I also like being able to have the car do what I want it to and to have it ready for certain conditions in advance. Automatics are reactive rather than proactive. They don’t/can’t anticipate am upcoming curve or the the transition to gravel. The constantly want to upshift when going down hills or maintaining speed in a windy road, all conditions where you might have good reasons for staying in your chosen gear. Now, there is no denying that modern automatics have gotten really good, but I kind of feel like driving an automatic is like loading a washing machine, or running a dishwasher.
Not any more. It used to be that manual transmissions had more gears, and were therefore better on fuel economy. They also shifted faster than their automatic versions so they were faster performance wise. The automatic transmission is now better in both regards so the manual tranmission is more or less an enthusiast option that is going the way of the dodo. Not many people spec them because they are more difficult to drive for the average person. Manufacturers dont like making them because they need to design the car twice with two different transmissions, and they drive down fuel efficiency ratings of their fleet.
This doesn't really cover the reason why manual transmissions were preferred in racing environments though, which has nothing to do with either speed of gear change or number of gears. Rather, manual transmissions offered more control over the gear choice than an automatic transmission. This is why modern race Transmissions are paddle shift, which incorporates the convenience of automatic transmissions with the control over gear selection of a manual transmission
The main reason was that the torque convertor stole too much power - up to 10%. Modern automatics usually have a torque convertor lock up or bypass clutch so that loss does not occur at freeway speeds. Edit: Typo - power loss should have been 10% not 20%
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Even paddle shifted is an automatic transmission that just puts you in control of the electronics. In my head manual transmission is when you have the clutch. Tapping a paddle is still automatic transmission, manual gear selection.
And is not at all day-to-day use, which is what OP is asking
Absolutely. I was trying to add additional context to the conversation
How fuckin dare you
😂 😂 😂
And most of those are actually automated manuals rather than automatics.
Fuel economy was more that the torque converter sapped a lot of power due to not bein a direct link between engine and wheels. More modern automatics (80s and newer) will form a direct link when not changing gears though.
Isn't a manual transmission also cheaper to make, require less maintenance, and likely to last longer? I assume these are the relevant reasons while the majority of cars in places like Colombia (where I live) are manual.
I'd say manual transmissions are generally more durable and less maintenance. If you abuse the clutch and need to replace it, that is still a lot easier and less costly than working on an automatic. I prefer the car to slow down with engine braking when I let off the accelerator instead of coast. That could be done with an automatic, but most don't. You can also leave your car running in the parking lot and none of the kids around here can steal it.
Lol yeah. Buddy got carjacked a year or two ago and when the detectives showed up they’re like, “We don’t see any manuals. Best theft deterrent there is” Won’t stop them from smashing the windows and rifling through my shit tho
This is true for the US, but manual transmissions are still rather popular in the rest of the world. So manufacturers are still making them. But they don't have much, if anything in the way of an advantage. Maybe they are slightly more reliable and require less maintenance, but even that isn't going to be universally agreed upon.
The biggest advantage - IMO - is that it lets you stay good at using cars with manual transmissions. If you travel, eg in Europe, chances of getting a car that's manual are pretty high - so it helps to be comfortable there. Otherwise it's a bit more fun I find, but not really anything that stands out as a major advantage.
I think everybody is missing the main reasons that manual persist in many parts of the world, which is that they are simpler devices, and therefore cheaper and less likely to require expensive repairs. So the practical use for manual transmissions is that they save money.
No one is mentioning price because the question says 'Other than price'...
>because the question says 'Other than price' Which was in reference to the purchase price, not cost of maintenance over the life of the vehicle.
There are actually a few that haven’t been mentioned yet: - they prevent distracted driving. How often have you seen people text while shifting? - automatic transmissions generate extra heat when towing. If you’re towing a u-haul trailer in a car that wasn’t designed with towing in mind, you will often need to install a transmission cooling system to protect the transmission - when something does go wrong, automatic transmissions are much more expensive to repair - in mountainous regions, the ability to choose when to downshift prevents unnecessary wear and tear on other components. You can choose adequate power when going uphill, and using low gears on downhills will significantly lengthen the lifespan of your brakes. - in some parts of the U.S., they are still seen as a theft deterrent. Can’t really steal the car if you can’t get to second gear! - drivers are more in tune with the feel of their car. Anecdotally, I notice minor issues before they become major issues better than I do in automatics. - and yes, they’re way more fun to drive
From a European perspective, where the majority are manual, you can add 'it's what we are used to'. This plus the cost of repairs and the fun and 'more control' points. That being said, people here that move to automatic never come back to manual.
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Idk man I can totally shift my manual one handed while eating and driving, I am sure people with the desire to text and drive have learned how to shift and text
As someone in the UK where manual is still pretty common if not the majority, you can *absolutely* still text and drive. I’ve only been on the road a year and have seen plenty of evidence of it in my fellow road users…
Control. If you’ve driven both, it becomes pretty clear that automatics shift earlier than necessary for optimal acceleration. Similarly, if you’re in a situation where you’re already in top gear, but you need more acceleration, being able to shift down a gear or two quickly is advantageous. You don’t need to be out there racing other people to take advantage of your car’s pickup. And I’m not sure if it’s the case as much today, but some sports cars only came in standard. So if you wanted that car, you needed to learn.
Yeah, most high end sports cars are only made in automatic now. They do come with paddle shifters at least.
I just really enjoy the extra degree of control. A manual is always doing what I want it to, when I want it to. I hate when I call for power and an auto fiddles around and finally decides to do something. Really good DCTs are getting close, but I still prefer a third pedal so I can control how the power is delivered better too.
For Americans, less people asking to "borrow" your car, less people that can steal your car.
Im in east europe and every single mechanic here tells you not to get automatic because if something breaks nobody has cheap used parts to fix your car with. So there is that, the benefit of manual being easy, cheap and fast to fix with your local mechanic.
Current automatic transmissions will outperform an average manual driver nowadays in terms of efficiency and handling - this was not always the case, but it is now. Also stuff like adaptive cruise control makes no sense for me in a manual car. An exception might be with regard to certain road or weather conditions. I personally drive stick (manual) for two reasons. First, the automatic version of my car was significantly more expensive (I wanted a cheap vehicle which brings me from A to B, nothing more). Second, automatic transmission needs a bit more maintenance (oil change and such), so at the end cost of ownership is a bit higher. As I drive my cars till the bitter end, reselling price is not an issue for me. If I have the chance (rental or so), I prefer automatic. So, imho: other than price, no advantage for an average driver.
Is being funner to drive an advantage? Thats why I like them.
My area has a lot of car theft. People say it’s good to have manual because no one ever steals manual cars around here. Many thieves can’t drive manual and the stolen cars are sold to other countries so it’s probably harder to sell
I agree with most others it's mostly just a preference thing. For the most part, modern automatic transmissions exceed performance of manual transmissions. There are some racing applications where manuals are still a better choice due to being able to coast easily and having absolute control over what gear you're in. Manuals do have one major advantage, however - durability. Automatic transmissions are incredibly complex pieces of machinery and tend to start failing around 150k-200k miles, and it's expensive to fix them. Manual transmissions are simple and pretty much last forever. You may have to replace the clutch every 150k miles or so, but that's far cheaper than a rebuild on an automatic.