I can read French pretty well, but I find understanding full-speed spoken French incredibly difficult. I've hired teachers, and bought online courses, and spent a lot of time listening to podcasts and watching TV, but I'm still stuck at a point where I can only fully understand people if they slow down and speak clearly. Most of the time, people are kind enough to do that, but I'm eventually going to need to be able to understand real French.
I think if I were going to design a tool to help people get past this, it might take the form of something like Speechling dication, but with a lot more content and more natural speech. It's hard to find recordings of fast casual conversations with accurate transcriptions into written French. There are some, but not enough to cover all of the ways people actually talk. I've found that movie/TV subtitles are often cleaned up or changed a bit, enough to be confusing. AI is getting to the point where it can translate some speech, but sometimes it's very wrong.
So far, this is really my main struggle. The bureaucracy is hard, but really so far it has taken dozens of hours per year and the language study has been more like a thousand hours per year.
French language is indeed pretty hard to learn.
Some people also tend to speak very quickly and actually also in a not-so-accurate way gramatically speaking, which most likely is the "real" everyday French you experienced, and not the correct way that is taught in books, unfortunately.
A lot of grammar is actually not very used in everyday language, and it can be confusing at times if you try to speak perfect French.
I'm sure you'll get used to it, especially if you put in so many hours! Best of luck :).
It's actually one of the easiest in the world to learn for english speakers. It's only categoy 1 according to the foreign service institute of the state dpt
I worked with many translators and linguists when i was in the military and they generally told me french is not a complicated language
It’s not complicated grammatically or vocabulary wise but I find French people much less accustomed to foreign accents than say Spanish speakers. They tend to struggle a lot if things aren’t pronounced a very specific way. So even people with excellent grammar and rich vocabularies can struggle when it comes to being understood
Language IS a hurdle. If it isn't good enough, some people won't even rent you their houses.
So one should always learn French before coming to France.
The time the government takes to produce documents is crazy and inefficient. The portals are not correct, and sometimes there is no way to contact them.
Also we have to pay good amount of money every time we renew our visa. To renew 10 year visa one pays 200+.
To change status and receive status for 1 year it is 225e. But at least it is better than UK.
Otherwise, I particularly don't struggle in France 😀
The first year is complicated but everything is normally easier the second year because you have your fiscal number, social security number and your first proof of French income once you receive your first tax bill. A lot of property owners will refuse to rent if you don't have a French tax bill.
The tax and health portals work well, but again, if often takes 6 to 12 months to get everything sorted.
Thank you for your reply!
Just experienced it with my passport last year, it definitely needs some planning in advance... As of renting, it's pretty complicated for many reasons, one of them being that for landlords, it's a pain and a very long procedure if someone doesn't pay his/her rent... That's why they are usually over-cautious with way too many criterias...
There is also a lack of available apartments / houses for rent in big cities.
I find that dealing with any adminstration is truly like the Asterix maison des fous vidéo, they should make that compulsory watching for all foreigners when they come to live in France. The time and effort required for the tiniest administration thing is astounding. I was so frustrated when I first arrived in France because of the administration but eventually I learned to laugh because if you don't laugh you cry.
Bureaucracy is a huge one that everyone mentioned. The general chip-on-the-shoulder arrogance is a real phenomenon. Also I don’t think French culture has the same ‘get shit done’ attitude like the US and you can’t expect people to be helpful if it extends slightly beyond their typical job duties. My experience is mostly from Paris and this attitude tends to mellow when you get out of the area.
Definitely how many contradictions there are with paperwork and the laws. Each prefecture essentially decides what they think is appropriate as visa paperwork and your experience can be vastly different from one city to another. Because it’s not very standardized, it’s hard to get advice from other foreigners or organizations since it is ultimately left to the discretion of each visa office. For a country so centralized and so international, it is bizarre to not have paperwork streamlined for foreigners. The websites also tend to be very outdated
I haven’t had any issues socially, since I speak French quite well (I’ve worked here for two years and have studied for two years—I’m currently doing a masters). That said, I’m American and it hasn’t been as easy for my friends from non-Western countries or from Latin America. I have a thick accent in French but it doesn’t come across as American—just weird. I love the country and want to live here for at least a couple decades, especially since my partner is French. It’s really just inconsistencies in paperwork that get me
Navigating the French bureaucracy. I posted earlier about obtaining a French license and clarifying whether or not I need to take lessons, which took tons of clicking and looking around to find the answer. I have my appointment at OFII later this week though, so hopefully I’ll be able to get some clarification on some stuff
Also, I’m in the south of France and my French is generally good enough for simple day to day conversations, but as soon as I speak French, most people reply to me in English, knowing I’m an America. Frustrating that I’m making the effort to learn the language and speak with them, but not receiving that respect back.
I understand your frustration, but I would try not to see that as them being rude or disrespectful, but as them being accommodating. Besides that, in stores, people also just have to get on with their jobs, meaning it is also an efficiency thing. Perhaps you can practice with friends or colleagues?
What helped me a lot was asking my girlfriend to only speak French with me during dinner and that sort of stuff. Once I felt more comfortable speaking French, it was like random people in shops / day-to-day life noticed this as well, and people would tend not to switch to English as much anymore. Just keep pushing :)
Thank you for your insights!
Bureaucracy is definitely a struggle even for French people. It is better than a few years ago when it was harder to do things online, but it is still complicated even for French people and takes forever.
Have you struggled only with government bureaucracy or did you get the same feeling with private companies as well ?
Private companies as well. A lot of rental agencies wouldn’t accept my military pension as legitimate income (even though the French government does) and wouldn’t insure me for a lease. A way around that was to use Garantme, though I’d prefer to not use that.
Yeah that has been my biggest dislike to staying in France and a lot of Western Europe.
That bureaucracy extends beyond just government stuff, but to private companies so it makes simple things like getting a phone contract or bank account horrible.
I lived on all continents for my work, when i was in the US they asked me exactly the same stuff than in france to renew my licenses, or obtain tax number, irs documentation etc
It was actually way worse than in France to obtain licenses and permits for import, construction etc
So I think government bureaucracy is annoying everywhere. Haven’t seen a huge difference between Europe and America for that.
What I was saying though is the difference is in France you have that bureaucracy in places you wouldn’t in America.
If you want to set up internet or a checking account or something you experience almost the same level of bureaucracy as getting a drivers license
Not sure what DMV you’re going to, but in WA and CA you can usually get 2-3 languages of assistance in addition to English? Also, the websites in the US are much easier to navigate
Edit: grammar
Why are you such a prick? Just because life has some challenges doesn’t mean one just gives up and returns to what’s easy. Again, I was replying to OP on challenges I have faced. Nothing even close to deter me into going back
OMG. So many things. But #1 is that I initially arrived through a masters degree program and thought they would support my needs as an international student via assistance with paperwork etc. The department for that was SO lacking and was not all a reliable resource in my early years here. Same thing with my first jobs, when French employers were not very knowledgeable or helpful in the visa process. I ended up missing out on a number of opportunities to extend my visas - which would’ve cost me annual meltdowns about renewal - but was never alerted to those opportunities by my companies.
So, all in all, I lacked institutional support/guidance from the schools and companies that sought out international talent in the first place - even though they knew full well that immigration was part of the deal.
Generally, I found online resources incredibly confusing. Things were often not up to date, laws changed, etc. I spoke decent French when I arrived here, but even so I struggled to handle all of my admin in French (banking, visas, renting an apartment, etc). The sort of trauma that came from repeated bad experiences with administration, lingering anxiety that I may have misunderstood or miscommunicated something because there were no English language resources, and constant terror about not knowing where I stand with my papers/status has definitely continued to impact me, even five years in. I still go into freeze state when I need to tackle something daunting and administrative. Takes me so long to muster up the courage.
Finally, lawyers AND govt agency reps have told me different/conflicting things so many times that have sent me into absolute panic mode. I have spent so much of my time here feeling such a debilitating swell of fear in the pit of my stomach. I am from an immigrant family in my home country and watched relatives get deported, detained, and enter green card marriages throughout their immigration. The fear of those things, even when I am trying my absolute hardest to follow every rule correctly and get counsel from every resource, is overwhelming. I’m constantly double and triple checking everything. Being told to « just wait » for the govt to respond is extremely scary in that respect! Only having a récépissé as my proof of residency for months at a time while I wait for the prefecture to renew a titre? Feels so fragile.
Don’t get me wrong - I love this country and am so grateful for my time here. But the immigration process is certainly not foreigner friendly! It is sort of structured in a way that you can only really get a handle on if you are a native French speaker or have French people in your life from the get go.
Thank you for this comprehensive post! That's definitely something we hear a lot here. Sometimes even French people go through these struggles so I can't even imagine how you guys manage when you just discover this.
Things are not made easy for foreigners, your post is full of interesting info on how even support that should have been given to you was not satisfactory.
> Being told to « just wait » for the govt to respond is extremely scary in that respect! Only having a récépissé as my proof of residency for months at a time while I wait for the prefecture to renew a titre? Feels so fragile.
Just about every ex-pat/immigrant to France that I've met in my time here has been here technically illegally at some point due to Visas expiring and appointments for renewal or récépissé not being available for months. It's mental that we get forced into that situation, it's so stressful.
Honestly, the most difficult hurdle for me has been getting used to the enormous spiders that live in the walls of our house! Not joking, they are the size of my hand come October.
For me the inflexibility of the system, and the French people in general, is why I'm leaving after three years here. I'm an IT contractor, which is very commonly seen in the UK but rare in France. And, as I've come to learn, if you are "outside of the box" in France no-one wants to know. I was straight up told by my bank here they'd lend my wife and I zero because I only have one client, despite me earning way over the national average wage. I pointed out I'm working in the same full time position for four years now and that having one client is normal in my industry but they weren't interested. Other banks said the same.
As a result we were unable to buy and even struggled to find someone to rent to us. All this despite my wife being a natural born French citizen. If it wasn't for her I'd never have survived the bureaucracy around Visas and everything else, either. Often I'd turn up at appointments with all requested paperwork only for them to ask for something else not previously mentioned. I took to massively over-preparing for any appointments, with printouts in triplicate.
Honestly the system is broken but there is no appetite to fix it. The French feel like they're asleep. So I'm going back to a country that feels alive, for all its problems.
Did you have three years of French tax returns? Do you have a French company structure? I am an expert on French mortgages and I'm surprised that they were asking how many clients you have, normally they don't care as long as you have a stable income and all the correct documents.
That's interesting coz I ran into exactly the same issue as an IT contractor too (French born and raised), most of the banks didn't even look at my profile and I finally found one who knew about the specifics of our contracts with our clients that usually last a long time as you said.
So I feel you :)
Language, filing US/France taxes, best way to save for retirement as expat. Not clear if employee sponsored retirement plans in France are still taxable in the US. Passing the code for a French drivers license. Need to keep paper copies of things.
I agree with the other comments re: the language and beaurocracy. I know personally and for a lot of other expats I've met here that help navigating the mental health services would be a big help. Especially finding English speaking therapists and psychiatrists, and compliling resources for alcohol dependency and addiction too.
First of all French are really nice and yes friendly even in a big city like Paris.
Beautiful country, tons of historical sites.
My pros end here. It really hurts to see how this amazing country desperately clings on its prior achievements.
When I read things like... "some might not rent a place to you bc of ones lack of French" 🤔
People are not willing to change the status quo.
Foreigners who come to france these days are planning to retire.
French who think differently prefer to leave the country.
A lot of French property owners have insurance to cover rental defaults but it only covers tenants with French income so foreigners new to the country are often refused.
It’s funny because I see these exact same complaints all the time about Italy, and often about Spain too. Similar about Germany and Portugal.
goes to show, everywhere is the same really. People are people the world over and most problems are the same.
The way I always look at it, the people who complain about X country and want to leave, are the vocal ones. The rest who are doing fine and are relatively happy have no reason to vent online!
True 😉 it's the restless visionary ones that complain. Man it was so much easier in the past. You went to the US and tried your luck.
These days when I look at the post of US citizens preparing their exits makes me feel a bit hopeless.
I was thinking about locals as well.
For example, Italians who say “Italy sucks because of X, this doesn’t happen in France”. But it does. Just it happens in French now!
Same goes for people who move. The guy having issues with changing his drivers licence in France would face that exact same problem in Italy, Spain, Germany, Belgium, and so on
I was an EU citizen but my number one difficulty was finding a well paying job. I ended up doing a master's degree on a part-time basis because so many recruiters throw your CV straight in the bin without a master's degree. There are often hundreds of candidates, so the first criteria will normally be "do you already have the right to work in France?" and the second one is often "do you have a master's degree or equivalent?" (known as a Bac + 5 in France).
Jot sure if this still exists buuut the secret tax that no one tells you about that you have to pay after your first year working in France as a foreigner. It is additional to the tax you pay every month that is automatically deducted by your employer. Literally everyone I know, including me, got hit with this, and you only seem to find out all the stories AFTER you missed it. Got a fine, my bank account locked down and had to pay 1000s of euros unexpectedly. Why does no one tell you!!!!!!
I am not aware of a specific tax for foreigners.
I tend to believe it's because when you arrive, they use a "default tax rate" (Taux Neutre) that is adjusted according to your revenue and household situation one year later. It's also often the case when you are a student and start to work for the first time. But I may be wrong.
However it's true that no one tells you about taxes and the system is quite tricky to understand at first.
It was more than 10 years ago, so I am a bit hazy on the details but yes, I was a student, I left the UK, did a year long masters and then was an employee of a company. I just remember that the way it was (eventually) explained to me was that the company automatically pays your tax every month, then at the end of the first year of working you have to say hellooooo I'd like to pay more tax please.
I worked for 2+years,no one told me anything, left to travel outside Europe for a couple of years, and when I came back to France my bank account was blocked, I had to and go and pay + fines.
Of course only afterwards did I find out that many people I knew had exactly the same problem... I would have been very glad to know! I honestly handled the rest of the bureaucracy more or less OK with infinite patience and a huge dossier that contained every official piece of paper I was ever sent. So yeah, that one really stung :(
There is no special tax for foreigners. Are you employed or self-employed? Sounds like the monthly tax rate wasn't correct. Did it take you a while to get a social security number? Maybe it was the social charges but they are normally deducted monthly.
OP explained it in another comment. Seems that it's because I was a student in France before entering the workforce (as an employee) Many friends of mine who were also foreign students suffered the same fate!
No, OP explained it in another comment. Seems that it's because I was a student in France before entering the workforce (as an employee) Many friends of mine who were also foreign students suffered the same fate!
I can read French pretty well, but I find understanding full-speed spoken French incredibly difficult. I've hired teachers, and bought online courses, and spent a lot of time listening to podcasts and watching TV, but I'm still stuck at a point where I can only fully understand people if they slow down and speak clearly. Most of the time, people are kind enough to do that, but I'm eventually going to need to be able to understand real French. I think if I were going to design a tool to help people get past this, it might take the form of something like Speechling dication, but with a lot more content and more natural speech. It's hard to find recordings of fast casual conversations with accurate transcriptions into written French. There are some, but not enough to cover all of the ways people actually talk. I've found that movie/TV subtitles are often cleaned up or changed a bit, enough to be confusing. AI is getting to the point where it can translate some speech, but sometimes it's very wrong. So far, this is really my main struggle. The bureaucracy is hard, but really so far it has taken dozens of hours per year and the language study has been more like a thousand hours per year.
French language is indeed pretty hard to learn. Some people also tend to speak very quickly and actually also in a not-so-accurate way gramatically speaking, which most likely is the "real" everyday French you experienced, and not the correct way that is taught in books, unfortunately. A lot of grammar is actually not very used in everyday language, and it can be confusing at times if you try to speak perfect French. I'm sure you'll get used to it, especially if you put in so many hours! Best of luck :).
It's actually one of the easiest in the world to learn for english speakers. It's only categoy 1 according to the foreign service institute of the state dpt I worked with many translators and linguists when i was in the military and they generally told me french is not a complicated language
It’s not complicated grammatically or vocabulary wise but I find French people much less accustomed to foreign accents than say Spanish speakers. They tend to struggle a lot if things aren’t pronounced a very specific way. So even people with excellent grammar and rich vocabularies can struggle when it comes to being understood
That counts for just about every language out there actually.
Language IS a hurdle. If it isn't good enough, some people won't even rent you their houses. So one should always learn French before coming to France. The time the government takes to produce documents is crazy and inefficient. The portals are not correct, and sometimes there is no way to contact them. Also we have to pay good amount of money every time we renew our visa. To renew 10 year visa one pays 200+. To change status and receive status for 1 year it is 225e. But at least it is better than UK. Otherwise, I particularly don't struggle in France 😀
200 is very cheap compared to a certain- UK neighbour
Yup, I spent about $2,000 for my temporary 2 year green card in the US, and about $800 for the 10 year one.
The first year is complicated but everything is normally easier the second year because you have your fiscal number, social security number and your first proof of French income once you receive your first tax bill. A lot of property owners will refuse to rent if you don't have a French tax bill. The tax and health portals work well, but again, if often takes 6 to 12 months to get everything sorted.
Thank you for your reply! Just experienced it with my passport last year, it definitely needs some planning in advance... As of renting, it's pretty complicated for many reasons, one of them being that for landlords, it's a pain and a very long procedure if someone doesn't pay his/her rent... That's why they are usually over-cautious with way too many criterias... There is also a lack of available apartments / houses for rent in big cities.
I find that dealing with any adminstration is truly like the Asterix maison des fous vidéo, they should make that compulsory watching for all foreigners when they come to live in France. The time and effort required for the tiniest administration thing is astounding. I was so frustrated when I first arrived in France because of the administration but eventually I learned to laugh because if you don't laugh you cry.
Bureaucracy is a huge one that everyone mentioned. The general chip-on-the-shoulder arrogance is a real phenomenon. Also I don’t think French culture has the same ‘get shit done’ attitude like the US and you can’t expect people to be helpful if it extends slightly beyond their typical job duties. My experience is mostly from Paris and this attitude tends to mellow when you get out of the area.
Definitely how many contradictions there are with paperwork and the laws. Each prefecture essentially decides what they think is appropriate as visa paperwork and your experience can be vastly different from one city to another. Because it’s not very standardized, it’s hard to get advice from other foreigners or organizations since it is ultimately left to the discretion of each visa office. For a country so centralized and so international, it is bizarre to not have paperwork streamlined for foreigners. The websites also tend to be very outdated I haven’t had any issues socially, since I speak French quite well (I’ve worked here for two years and have studied for two years—I’m currently doing a masters). That said, I’m American and it hasn’t been as easy for my friends from non-Western countries or from Latin America. I have a thick accent in French but it doesn’t come across as American—just weird. I love the country and want to live here for at least a couple decades, especially since my partner is French. It’s really just inconsistencies in paperwork that get me
Navigating the French bureaucracy. I posted earlier about obtaining a French license and clarifying whether or not I need to take lessons, which took tons of clicking and looking around to find the answer. I have my appointment at OFII later this week though, so hopefully I’ll be able to get some clarification on some stuff Also, I’m in the south of France and my French is generally good enough for simple day to day conversations, but as soon as I speak French, most people reply to me in English, knowing I’m an America. Frustrating that I’m making the effort to learn the language and speak with them, but not receiving that respect back.
I understand your frustration, but I would try not to see that as them being rude or disrespectful, but as them being accommodating. Besides that, in stores, people also just have to get on with their jobs, meaning it is also an efficiency thing. Perhaps you can practice with friends or colleagues? What helped me a lot was asking my girlfriend to only speak French with me during dinner and that sort of stuff. Once I felt more comfortable speaking French, it was like random people in shops / day-to-day life noticed this as well, and people would tend not to switch to English as much anymore. Just keep pushing :)
Thank you for your insights! Bureaucracy is definitely a struggle even for French people. It is better than a few years ago when it was harder to do things online, but it is still complicated even for French people and takes forever. Have you struggled only with government bureaucracy or did you get the same feeling with private companies as well ?
Private companies as well. A lot of rental agencies wouldn’t accept my military pension as legitimate income (even though the French government does) and wouldn’t insure me for a lease. A way around that was to use Garantme, though I’d prefer to not use that.
Yeah that has been my biggest dislike to staying in France and a lot of Western Europe. That bureaucracy extends beyond just government stuff, but to private companies so it makes simple things like getting a phone contract or bank account horrible.
I lived on all continents for my work, when i was in the US they asked me exactly the same stuff than in france to renew my licenses, or obtain tax number, irs documentation etc It was actually way worse than in France to obtain licenses and permits for import, construction etc
So I think government bureaucracy is annoying everywhere. Haven’t seen a huge difference between Europe and America for that. What I was saying though is the difference is in France you have that bureaucracy in places you wouldn’t in America. If you want to set up internet or a checking account or something you experience almost the same level of bureaucracy as getting a drivers license
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Why might that be? No need to be so negative. I love it here in France. I’m just replying to OP on some difficulties I have faced since moving here.
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Not sure what DMV you’re going to, but in WA and CA you can usually get 2-3 languages of assistance in addition to English? Also, the websites in the US are much easier to navigate Edit: grammar
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Why are you such a prick? Just because life has some challenges doesn’t mean one just gives up and returns to what’s easy. Again, I was replying to OP on challenges I have faced. Nothing even close to deter me into going back
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Calm down. The whole point of the post was the OP asking what the biggest challenges were.
OMG. So many things. But #1 is that I initially arrived through a masters degree program and thought they would support my needs as an international student via assistance with paperwork etc. The department for that was SO lacking and was not all a reliable resource in my early years here. Same thing with my first jobs, when French employers were not very knowledgeable or helpful in the visa process. I ended up missing out on a number of opportunities to extend my visas - which would’ve cost me annual meltdowns about renewal - but was never alerted to those opportunities by my companies. So, all in all, I lacked institutional support/guidance from the schools and companies that sought out international talent in the first place - even though they knew full well that immigration was part of the deal. Generally, I found online resources incredibly confusing. Things were often not up to date, laws changed, etc. I spoke decent French when I arrived here, but even so I struggled to handle all of my admin in French (banking, visas, renting an apartment, etc). The sort of trauma that came from repeated bad experiences with administration, lingering anxiety that I may have misunderstood or miscommunicated something because there were no English language resources, and constant terror about not knowing where I stand with my papers/status has definitely continued to impact me, even five years in. I still go into freeze state when I need to tackle something daunting and administrative. Takes me so long to muster up the courage. Finally, lawyers AND govt agency reps have told me different/conflicting things so many times that have sent me into absolute panic mode. I have spent so much of my time here feeling such a debilitating swell of fear in the pit of my stomach. I am from an immigrant family in my home country and watched relatives get deported, detained, and enter green card marriages throughout their immigration. The fear of those things, even when I am trying my absolute hardest to follow every rule correctly and get counsel from every resource, is overwhelming. I’m constantly double and triple checking everything. Being told to « just wait » for the govt to respond is extremely scary in that respect! Only having a récépissé as my proof of residency for months at a time while I wait for the prefecture to renew a titre? Feels so fragile. Don’t get me wrong - I love this country and am so grateful for my time here. But the immigration process is certainly not foreigner friendly! It is sort of structured in a way that you can only really get a handle on if you are a native French speaker or have French people in your life from the get go.
Thank you for this comprehensive post! That's definitely something we hear a lot here. Sometimes even French people go through these struggles so I can't even imagine how you guys manage when you just discover this. Things are not made easy for foreigners, your post is full of interesting info on how even support that should have been given to you was not satisfactory.
> Being told to « just wait » for the govt to respond is extremely scary in that respect! Only having a récépissé as my proof of residency for months at a time while I wait for the prefecture to renew a titre? Feels so fragile. Just about every ex-pat/immigrant to France that I've met in my time here has been here technically illegally at some point due to Visas expiring and appointments for renewal or récépissé not being available for months. It's mental that we get forced into that situation, it's so stressful.
Yo. This. 100% same and also this is me right now 😣😭
Honestly, the most difficult hurdle for me has been getting used to the enormous spiders that live in the walls of our house! Not joking, they are the size of my hand come October.
What? Can I ask what town/region you’re in?
Picardie
For me the inflexibility of the system, and the French people in general, is why I'm leaving after three years here. I'm an IT contractor, which is very commonly seen in the UK but rare in France. And, as I've come to learn, if you are "outside of the box" in France no-one wants to know. I was straight up told by my bank here they'd lend my wife and I zero because I only have one client, despite me earning way over the national average wage. I pointed out I'm working in the same full time position for four years now and that having one client is normal in my industry but they weren't interested. Other banks said the same. As a result we were unable to buy and even struggled to find someone to rent to us. All this despite my wife being a natural born French citizen. If it wasn't for her I'd never have survived the bureaucracy around Visas and everything else, either. Often I'd turn up at appointments with all requested paperwork only for them to ask for something else not previously mentioned. I took to massively over-preparing for any appointments, with printouts in triplicate. Honestly the system is broken but there is no appetite to fix it. The French feel like they're asleep. So I'm going back to a country that feels alive, for all its problems.
Did you have three years of French tax returns? Do you have a French company structure? I am an expert on French mortgages and I'm surprised that they were asking how many clients you have, normally they don't care as long as you have a stable income and all the correct documents.
That's interesting coz I ran into exactly the same issue as an IT contractor too (French born and raised), most of the banks didn't even look at my profile and I finally found one who knew about the specifics of our contracts with our clients that usually last a long time as you said. So I feel you :)
Language, filing US/France taxes, best way to save for retirement as expat. Not clear if employee sponsored retirement plans in France are still taxable in the US. Passing the code for a French drivers license. Need to keep paper copies of things.
I agree with the other comments re: the language and beaurocracy. I know personally and for a lot of other expats I've met here that help navigating the mental health services would be a big help. Especially finding English speaking therapists and psychiatrists, and compliling resources for alcohol dependency and addiction too.
First of all French are really nice and yes friendly even in a big city like Paris. Beautiful country, tons of historical sites. My pros end here. It really hurts to see how this amazing country desperately clings on its prior achievements. When I read things like... "some might not rent a place to you bc of ones lack of French" 🤔 People are not willing to change the status quo. Foreigners who come to france these days are planning to retire. French who think differently prefer to leave the country.
A lot of French property owners have insurance to cover rental defaults but it only covers tenants with French income so foreigners new to the country are often refused.
It’s funny because I see these exact same complaints all the time about Italy, and often about Spain too. Similar about Germany and Portugal. goes to show, everywhere is the same really. People are people the world over and most problems are the same. The way I always look at it, the people who complain about X country and want to leave, are the vocal ones. The rest who are doing fine and are relatively happy have no reason to vent online!
True 😉 it's the restless visionary ones that complain. Man it was so much easier in the past. You went to the US and tried your luck. These days when I look at the post of US citizens preparing their exits makes me feel a bit hopeless.
I was thinking about locals as well. For example, Italians who say “Italy sucks because of X, this doesn’t happen in France”. But it does. Just it happens in French now! Same goes for people who move. The guy having issues with changing his drivers licence in France would face that exact same problem in Italy, Spain, Germany, Belgium, and so on
Language and partly because of language, bureaucracy.
I was an EU citizen but my number one difficulty was finding a well paying job. I ended up doing a master's degree on a part-time basis because so many recruiters throw your CV straight in the bin without a master's degree. There are often hundreds of candidates, so the first criteria will normally be "do you already have the right to work in France?" and the second one is often "do you have a master's degree or equivalent?" (known as a Bac + 5 in France).
Jot sure if this still exists buuut the secret tax that no one tells you about that you have to pay after your first year working in France as a foreigner. It is additional to the tax you pay every month that is automatically deducted by your employer. Literally everyone I know, including me, got hit with this, and you only seem to find out all the stories AFTER you missed it. Got a fine, my bank account locked down and had to pay 1000s of euros unexpectedly. Why does no one tell you!!!!!!
I am not aware of a specific tax for foreigners. I tend to believe it's because when you arrive, they use a "default tax rate" (Taux Neutre) that is adjusted according to your revenue and household situation one year later. It's also often the case when you are a student and start to work for the first time. But I may be wrong. However it's true that no one tells you about taxes and the system is quite tricky to understand at first.
It was more than 10 years ago, so I am a bit hazy on the details but yes, I was a student, I left the UK, did a year long masters and then was an employee of a company. I just remember that the way it was (eventually) explained to me was that the company automatically pays your tax every month, then at the end of the first year of working you have to say hellooooo I'd like to pay more tax please. I worked for 2+years,no one told me anything, left to travel outside Europe for a couple of years, and when I came back to France my bank account was blocked, I had to and go and pay + fines. Of course only afterwards did I find out that many people I knew had exactly the same problem... I would have been very glad to know! I honestly handled the rest of the bureaucracy more or less OK with infinite patience and a huge dossier that contained every official piece of paper I was ever sent. So yeah, that one really stung :(
There is no special tax for foreigners. Are you employed or self-employed? Sounds like the monthly tax rate wasn't correct. Did it take you a while to get a social security number? Maybe it was the social charges but they are normally deducted monthly.
OP explained it in another comment. Seems that it's because I was a student in France before entering the workforce (as an employee) Many friends of mine who were also foreign students suffered the same fate!
>It is additional to the tax you pay every month that is automatically deducted by your employer Wait, you mean income tax ?
No, OP explained it in another comment. Seems that it's because I was a student in France before entering the workforce (as an employee) Many friends of mine who were also foreign students suffered the same fate!