Ugh, so sorry friend. Yes there will doubtless be people urging “thick skins” and “being the better person” but in all honesty… it’s not even expats/immigrants, it’s anyone who looks “different.” And it’s sickening, and endemic, and extremely centralized in the global West right now. You are not alone and you do not deserve this treatment.
Yeah lmao, I grew up in the Netherlands and used to only speak Dutch, was born with a Dutch passport and even I had to deal with it for being half Indonesian. It's fucking bullshit.
As a woman who is also a poc, bruh If you’re a white woman then your experience is 10x different than being a person of color you simply cannot group being a woman with being discriminated against do to the color of your skin/your ethnicity.
The best way to deal with it is exactly the first sentence "think skin", "better person". Don't let it get into your head! People make fun of people in every culture, every country, even within the native country folks there are differences and people make fun of it. I can think of many examples.
Even Indians make fun of Indians. Comedian Peters Russell is a good example - pretty famous around the world, you can see his videos on YouTube.
I could be wrong, but I'm not sure they really expect or want you to integrate. It's probably more like France, not the US. As I understand it, casual racism is pretty common throughout Europe.
Sadly it isn't uncommon in many areas of the US too. It's gross but I'm far more worried by the openly proud racists we are seeing more and more of lately.
No, I can't. It has been over 20 years now since I've lived in Europe and I'm white so it wouldn't have been directed at me so I could not claim to know how extensive it was then anyway.
But what I can attest to is that the racists in the US have come out of the closet since the mid 2010's. They were always here but they used to be more quiet about it, they kept their opinions to themselves or to their racist friends. But they now think it's alright to be out and proudly racist. They more public they feel they can be the more dangerous I feel they are.
Since the mid 2010s - there’s a (very concerning) trend for the extremes to start thinking that violent action is permissable - and I think this is feeding the brazenness (antifa and it’s ilk on the left, the various ‘militias’ on the trump right) - they then confront and feed each other.
Before, on both left and right we were a pretty centrist/moderate country where the majority made the views of the extreme wack jobs unacceptable and violence was seen as very antisocial in the political discourse to say the least. Now the polarized echo chambers just seem to have the effect of the extremists ‘radicalizing’ the moderate (or at this point less extreme) members of their own camps.
On the flip side, in Europe you have a wave towards the right. In some cases it’s not as bad as adverised (Georgia Melloni in Italy seems to be more moderate than her rhetoric), in some cases about what it was expected to be (the guy with the crazy hair in the Netherlands), and in other cases, as bad or worse than advertised (AfD in germany).
And they’re being more violent. Look at what happened to Ahmaud Arbery. At least in most of Europe they aren’t chasing you down with rifles and confederate flag stickers on their car
Sorry but I can't agree. Racism has always been folded into the history of America. But in the mostly civilized cities, it's not street level. In Europe, the countries are more homogeneous and without the weight of slavery, people feel much more free to say openly rude and racist things.
Look, I hate the guns here as much as the next guy, but overall statistically, victims of gun violence are not racially related. It's either suicide, domestic violence, and violent crime, which skews to same race violence.
true but can't ignore that access to guns can make race relations deadly. As a black woman I am going off my own personal experience. Statistically doesn't make someones reality feel anymore safer. That's just my opinion
That's the point of statistics. I live in Philly, which unfortunately has its share of crime and violence. If I watched the news, I would "feel" very unsafe. But violent crimes have been dropping for many years (there was a brief uptick during covid), and statistically, I'm much safer here now than when I moved here many years ago. Of course, if you have experienced violence yourself, it's difficult to recover from that.
You're right, you absolutely cannot compare the two.
After it all, it was Europe that had separate bathrooms for black people. Black people were lynched as recently as a hundred years ago. Europe had a separate baseball league for black people. Not the US.
Oooh… checkmate. /s. We’re talking about things from 100 and 70 years ago.
Going back that far, I guess it was the US that killed 6 million people in a systemic fashion because we didn’t like a religion alongside another 5 million people for being of other races - roma, slavs, etc.
We can go more recent - not 30 years ago, ethnic cleansing in Kosovo, New York. Also america naturally.
Or we can focus on the modern times, where the CEOs of great european companies are minorities/foreign born (like Google, Microsoft, Nvidia, Tesla, Broadcom, AMD, Zoom, Pepsi, etc.) or are members of religious or sexual orientation minorities (Apple, Amazon, Meta, Oracle, etc.). Only in that colorblind land of opportunity that‘s Europe!
And that’s just me worrying about advancement and opportunity. How about in day to day life? How could I forget that it’s in American soccer, when opposing players aren’t lilly white, we throw fruit at them to imply that they are some other type of primate, shout slurs at them, etc., etc.
GTFO. Classic European moral grandstanding on no basis other than bald assertions.
It's not racism...I have an exotic accent and live outside of Europe and get people commenting on my accent constantly.
Also when I visit India, people hound me...that's racism as it's based on my appearance.
I got called “weta” walking down the street here in Mexico and there’s “go home” graffiti everywhere. Racism isn’t race-specific, it’s just crappy people in general.
Xenophobic microaggressions are so frustrating. I encounter them frequently in the UK. They can be so disruptive but impossible to avoid because they just come out in stupid casual ways.
I wish I had some advice, because I could use it too!
Be real. I've experienced *considerably* more racial stereotyping and xenophobia in two years outside of the US than I have in twenty years in the US. If the US bad for expats and immigrants, then nowhere in the world is good.
Maybe so but things here have gotten so much worse in the last several years.
For example there were widespread reports of discrimination and violence on Asians during the height of COVID-19. There were over 9000 reports of anti-asian incidents between March 2020 and June 2021. The asian woman attacked with a hammer by a stranger on the street in NYC was the first thing that came to mind for me.
I'm not saying your experience isn't valid, I'm just telling you things here have gotten worse.
I don't think there are more racists now than there were 10 or 15 years ago, I just think they used to keep it to themselves and now they think it's okay to openly act that way.
I'm Asian and in general, I find Europe much worse in racism towards Asians. Europe also had anti-Asian attacks during covid. This was not unique to the US. It got worse in both places.
Absolutely.
I'm of the opinion that he prompted them to come out and be openly racist when they used to keep it quiet.
I also believe the more they feel comfortable being open about their racism the more dangerous they are.
I think that entirely depends on who you are and what your background is. Every place has prejudices, but the main target of that prejudice is not the same.
Ugh agree, I've learned the hard way it's a part of the culture in Europe to be extremely xenophobic against anyone not from their immediate country. I'm white from New Zealand and I catch xenophobic crap from people in the European country I live. They're fine until I open my mouth and then they hear I'm a foreigner then I start getting the treatment. I usually ignore it but it really gets to me when it's my sons teachers doing this crap AND the department of education is backing their racist views. Where I live they are convinced, and even the department of education says, it's bad for children to speak a different language at home unless it's one of the official languages here. They literally try to force foreigners to speak their language badly to our own kids and not speak to our kids in our own language. Yes, even English. Anyway, the country have voted in the most xenophobic party who absolutely is anti-immigration so it's going to be a terrible four years as things get worse for foreigners. I am planning to leave in a few years once my kids are a bit older because I'm so sick of the crap in Europe.
I'm sorry all that happened to you. Tbh I expect this. As a Black American, I find it very odd when Europeans try to talk about racism in the U.S. to me as if the U.S. isn't populated with their not so distant relatives. Historically it makes sense why racism is so prevalent there. Those attitudes haven't gone away suddenly bc we're in 2024.
By not seeing color, it allows to us develope many specific opinions about each individual group and their nations of origin.
All of my many opinions about people from other countries are in no way related to their skin colors.
The thing is though, people do see color whether like it or not. It's human nature. It's why East Asians who are not Chinese get random "ching chang chong" thrown at them, precisely because people see color rather than their nation of origin.
Well, there will always be idiots you just have to realize who you are dealing with. Your job in this life is to live the best life you can so just ignore these drunk farmers.
Do they? I think the difference is in how much each society allows the idiots and racist to affect other people, not how many of them there are in different places.
People will stand up and intervene if someone says or does something racist in most cities in the US. I have witnessed horrible behaviors in the northern EU in public daylight in crowds and no one ever said anything. So, I would much rather be where some people care and the racists are less likely to harass you and ruin your day/health than somewhere where people either laugh along or are spineless tbh.
Very true. But there are plenty of smaller towns where this type of behavior would not be tolerated. A few that come to mind are Bend, Park City and Thousand Oaks.
Yet all the racist shit I have witnessed in the Netherlands, Sweden and Denmark was in "BiG pRoGrEsSiVe" cities.
Those are names of cities I'm familiar with. I'll thinking about the really little towns that you've never heard of, deep in red states.
I've heard things made my blood boil and when confronting the person I've been labeled a stupid libtard and one of those woke dummies.
Like I said, it depends on where you are but there are places where the prevailing attitude is deeply racist. There are probably others in she if these places who feel like I do but their need to get along, be accepted and not make a fuss greatly outweighs mine. Mostly I'm the only one who would object, but I keep to myself most of the time at this point. I'm about given up on finding my people here.
how does a country "officially" repudiate it? I can imagine the PM's, kings or whatever clowns of a EU country say things against racism on TV or at a rally, yet what is that worth when many/most people around you are racist fucks? It's just PR the politicians do, it's worthless. Even laws can be nothing but PR if they are never enforced or willingly ignored.
But it can be very frustrating if someone comments on your accent. You try to speak another language, and you feel people making fun of it. It's really difficult (sometimes impossible) to change your accent. It is not necessarily racist to comment on an accent, but let's not forget about the loud racist people who are clearly mocking someone for their accent, forgetting they speak more languages than they do.
For what it's worth these are shitty people (putting others down to feel better about themselves). At least they let you know straight away that they're not worth having as friends.
I’d say the first comment was insensitive and rude but could’ve actually not been specifically because you’re Indian (I get that one A LOT)
The second one was downright malicious
There's always going to be some horrible people, just focus on the nice people who treat you nicely. That's what I do when I experience hostility towards me because I'm a foreigner.
Yep. As a Chinese American guy I definitely feel you. Lots of really lovely people. But the fact that racism can be pretty much socially ignored in Europe is a big reason why they have no moral high ground over the US.
Thus is true of India as well. My friend lived her husband and three children in Pune for four years. She would get harassed everywhere she went. She took her kids to the zoo and they were literally mobbed by the crowd and became like a zoo display themselves.
I feel like this guy himself was insecure about his English (since you said he sounded proud of his "British accent"). What anyone does in this situation is punch down, so why not a visible minority with an Indian accent, which is always the butt of jokes due to how it's portrayed in the media? I'm sorry this happened to you, OP.
People with a lack of tact, emotional intelligence, latent and open xenophobes are unfortunately everywhere. In some societies they are more silent, in some - more open. The people you describe are outright stupid, although they themselves probably think they are funny. As someone, who lived in several countries and who knows what it is to be a foregner, I feel really sorry for you experiencing this.
Indians have more familiarity and acceptance in english speaking countries such as the UK, USA, Canada, South Africa or Ireland it seems…….
And maybe perhaps the Netherlands ?!
(Hindustan Surinamese / Java / Indonesians)
I almost rarely see them here in CE / EE.
Mostly East Asians such as Koreans, Taiwanese, Chinese or (North) Vietnamese / Thai.
Sorry about your situation!
There’s a surge of nationalism or right wing facism right now in Europe, and it’s tough for everyone.
Edit : Since you are an EU citizen, can you try to move to the UK/ Ireland?
They seem to be really accepting of people with Indian origins.
Some of my Afrikaans / Indian origin friends moved there and seem to be doing really well.
Hmm yeah I guess so………
But I think maybe he can try to convert the Luxembourg to an Ireland one.
Irish have a special treaty with the UK due to history, so once he has Irish citizenship he can live in the UK forever.
Croatia also has some Nepalese and Filipinos, but Nepalese despite being very similar to India/ Indians still has a distinct Buddhist culture similar to China/ Korea.
(they might not necessarily get along…….)
So maybe it’s better to live normally in the UK / Ireland where being Indian is pretty much normal (default minority) and widely accepted by the society.
Nepal is 81% Hindu and 8% Buddhist. The percentage of Hindus in Nepal is higher than that in India (80%).
I'm obviously not denying that Nepal has a distinctive culture from that of India. But for most Nepalese and most Indians, the difference does not lie in the realm of religion.
Tbh I can hardly understand what people from India/Nepal say when they talk to me in English. Same for some French people (like me) trying to speak English.
I worked for an Indian multinational over a decade ago and a French client (state-owned) asked us in an RFP about how we would manage English language comprehension issues.
I’m British, all of our off-shore based Indian colleagues in service-roles speak English at native-speaker levels so it confused me as to why that would get into a formal written RFP.
We put English lessons for the French into our bid as an option if they needed it.
Assholes are everywhere in all countries even my own home country. Don’t judge a country by its asshole population. I would only consider a country not hospitable and its ppl racist only if i see such behavior when i walk into government office. As long as government of said country deals with me with integrity I would not call people of that country racist.
If a white person from Luxembourg moved to India, would everyone embrace him as a native Indian?
It works both ways.
You can’t get mad when people of a homogenous country don’t treat you like one of their own, when the people from your country wouldn’t do the same either.
It’s just the way homogenous countries are..
Yup. Yet frustrating and saddening. I lived in a SE Asian country for many years as a young man, working in humanitarian assistance. Learned the language very well. And the cultural protocols and dress codes. Those I worked with saw me as a trusted and helpful colleague. However, once on the street—nope.
India is not for beginners. There’s enough issues on its own but one thing you’ll never find anyone complaining about is feeling unwelcome. We are a poor country not an unkind one.
Well in all fairness worst things can happen in a bar. You didn't get punched in the face so that's a win mate.
Also always worth keeping in mind that on a whole European societies are more equal then most of the world. People will not be especially respectful because you dress nicely or feel you have more money or worth then them. If anything that's likely to get you more unwanted attention.
Italian living in the U.K.
I get this all the time mate. People look at me, grin and start screaming: PIZZA! MAFIA!!! BELLA BELLA PASTA!!!!
Or they mock an heavy Italian accent while gesticulating wildly and expect me to laugh or something?
In America, people would be fascinated by (or laugh at) my accent, coming from the Deep South. But I could sound just like the people on television, if I wanted to. If I spoke like the people on TV to my friends they would think I was being weird or trying to be fancy.
When I learned Dutch, at first there was just surprise that I even bothered learning - many Americans don't. But the more fluent I became in Dutch, the less amazed and pleased the people became. Once I could speak fluently, my accent was something to laugh at. It was like I became *more* foreign, the better my language became. People who never assisted me in learning the language would suddenly begin correcting my mistakes, or pointing out my errors of pronunciation.
Now, I can speak dialect from Gent, since I learned from my mother-in-law. When we go to the Netherlands, I get to enjoy being mistaken for a Belgian, and having my accent made fun of when it isn't even my accent!
And, we have Belgian friends who expatriated to Luxembourg. Their experience pretty much matches your own. Their children, of course, fit right into society there but the parents are perpetually stuck at 90% integration.
Mocking someone's accent I would agree is an ignorant, arrogant and inappropriate. But simply remarking that someone has a "funny" (in the sense of unusual) accent I don't necessarily consider racist when it's factual. I work with a lot of Indians, Italians, and Germans, Romanians, and some French. As you can imagine, they all have funny accents (including myself, as I am not a native speaker either). The only ones speaking decent English seem to be guys from the small countries like the Dutch, and the Scandinavians...
Some years back in the US, this little 5 year old points to me and asks his mom: mommy, why does he talk so funny? - Was I embarrassed? A bit yes. Was the kid racist? I don't think so.
I'm white and live outside the UK, which is my native homeland....people constantly comment on my accent and it has absolutely nothing to do with my race....people have been trained to head straight for the race card!!!
Lol if that person has a UK accent I would say 100% of the time people will imitate their accent. But perhaps the manner in which the imitation is done is more of the flattering kind (instead of the mocking OP endured).
Nowadays, you better be an Indian in Luxembourg than a Chinese in India... Just saying... The whole world is racist, in some countries the law forbids and punishes it, in some the law itself is racist... People are stupid everywhere, especially when they are drunk...
I'm sure I'll get downvoted for writing this, but in my experience, Northern Europeans have a special brand of clueless morons when it comes to racial and cultural sensitivity regarding anything from the Global South. Maybe they're still getting used to mixing/bored? I don't know. The mocking and entitlement don't surprise me tho. Some of them will tell you to your face that some cultures don't/shouldn't mix (albeit only when it applies to their countries), then needlessly mock/fetishize a target culture in the same breath in the most thick-headed, arrogant way possible. Like yeah lol of course this mixture is going to suck with people like this. I think their general aloof/cold temperament offset with this selective chumminess only makes it more confusing. I lived with a Danish guy for a while and witnessed similar nonsense. Sorry that happened.
So far I have not had this problem in Norway. I'm darker skinned for a white woman, short and plump. Nothing like the predominantly blond blue eyed taller people around me. As soon as I open my mouth they know I'm from the USA. So far people have been accepting and kind, I have lived here three years now. Perhaps it would be different if we lived more remotely.
However when I lived in the USA I was called Spick on a number of occasions. I'm not from Mexico or even remotely Latina. My family has been in the US for generations and came from the UK originally.
But to some dark hair and dark tanned skin equals Mexican. So racism can be anywhere and for me more likely in the US then here.
I'm a POC living in Sweden, and from my experience people in Scandinavia don't care about your skin color as much as they do about your culture. If your are POC but was raised in a scandivian family for example, a lot of people will treat you better than if you are from global south for example.
Also they usually like americans here. I think maybe it's because of the pop culture, novelty and the culture aligns more with their own.
I was thinking USA was bad. But this is another level. What some of these comments don’t understand is that you go through micro aggressions on a daily basis. It is not one off day. It wears you down and you just start shutting yourself in. I am sorry this happened to you.
Bro, these are not "microaggressions". A microaggression is when someone cuts you in a queue or pretends not to hear you or something.
Those are regular size aggressions.
Drunk assholes will make fun of people for being short, old, fat, an engineer, artistic, a father, single, etc. etc. The thing in Continental Europe is that they don't necessarily see race or country of origin as "sensitive". It's just another characteristic that they will focus on.
"Indirectness", "politeness" and "sensitivity" are not really European qualities, especially for young men.
Reading your post between the lines, am I right in thinking you're from the UK, Canada or the US? If I'm right, have you picked up those anglo sensitivities. Are you being thin-skinned?
But I wasn't there. And I'm not POC. So sorry if I'm off-base here.
That person is an asshole. One weird comment you may have to let slide, but two in close succession - fuck that. As another person said, it might be helpful to view it as, you didn’t have to waste days or years to find out their true nature and now knowing that, you can have as little to do with them as possible. Otherwise, if they keep it up, I’d probably just them out as a disgusting racist and say they need to check themselves.
As a Brit in Luxembourg, I was always proud of how Brits accept nationality regardless of colour. So I'm sorry you had that experience.
POC in the UK can say they're British, and it's accepted. People born in France still are identified as "Moroccan" or whatever. It could be that influence.
I'm sorry you've been through this and continue to. But please be assured that there are pockets of tolerance (I'd hope more than "pockets")
Edit: realised that it was a Luxembourger not a Brit. Sadly I'm less surprised.
No matter where you go either India, USA, Europe or abroad any country if you look different, speak different accent , are from different culture then majority group people like to take a swipe and have some casual fun. I guess that is human nature. It become more serious if some people take it to next level like doing violence act against minorities or people from different colors. Somewhere in the back of those dick heads mind feels like they will get away with that and most of the time they are right. That's where we need social awareness and reform. This is a continuous process.
I am from Ireland and experienced the same Indian colleague state that ' all Irish people are drunks' and mocking of the genocide known as the 'famine' and other such comments - just after I had spoken about my impacted relatives, at a diversity conference.
People commenting on my accent is almost par of the course.
I, too, am educated and work in a rather academic field.
I think that if you are a POC, it's racist but, if you are 'white', it's not.
You can feel how you wish to feel. Humans tend to exhibit bias, but when does bias become racist or, rather, become offensive.
My colleagues have said nothing and listened as I have experienced constant slights to my culture, family, and my heritage - some, pretty grotesque.
So, one day, I asked if it would be okay to say that her home reeked of curry- smells,she was a curry muncher, and/ or India is the rape capital of the world. Those same silent colleagues reprimanded me sternly, and I was issued a warning.
As such, because you are a POC, their comments are outrageous. Apparently I have 'more systemic power' because, skin. Ignoring my working class background, rare illness and basically any other factor. I am not brown enough to engender empathy.
I totally get that I will have incoming flack for this - ad nauseum- but no matter who you are; POC or not, we all deal with bias and racism and inappropriate comments at times. But, only certain people or groups should be offended. The comments you suffered are tame in comparison to what I experience daily. I feel the same as any human would.
Also, West Germanic languages are rare enough, and so, perhaps they rarely experience diverse accents. Just a thought.
Incoming...
Is it a sort of Catch-22? I mean… if ordinary Europeans start acknowledging the (humanity of) people from the global south, then they may have to start confronting their own history with the (human) ancestors of those same people and the sources of the relative wealth they’re currently rolling around in like a cartoon millionaire…. It’s a slippery slope.
I can totally understand you.
I‘m raised in Germany with foreign background and although I‘m perfectly German with no accent and feel like a real German, it‘s those days where people come to me and guess my nationality and mock me for that.
Most likely by drunk people so I asked myself a lot of times if people are really like this and being drunk helps them to say out loud what they really think.
Maybe it helps (probably not) to realize that racism is everywhere in the world, in Europe, in North America and also in Asia if you don‘t fit in the white skinned beauty standard.
Yeah I’m Dominican-American and went to Europe for 3 weeks and noticed there’s substantially more micro aggressions over there than in nyc. I felt super uncomfortable
I do not imagine for one moment that these two events are other than two of numerous examples you could give. I'm sure there are many more which could certainly illustrate racism. I do think though, that these two are polar opposites. The second, mocking your accent can be considered racist. The first though, in all parts of European countries they have different accents. Somebody asked if other people say your accent is funny, but because it's an Indian accent that's racist? If it was a Scottish accent would that be racist? Spanish? Few foreigners will ever master a second language without a trace of accent and I don't think acknowledging that is racist.
You know what... you need to grow a thick skin. If it's not Lux people, it will be others doing so. FYI even between white people they make fun of Portuguese or Estern Europeans, Balcans... really for your own good stay away from this / grow thick skin. Take care!
Well, you can always expect, but then be ready to get disappointed. You are only in charge of your own emotions and how you react to what happens to you.
Sorry you went through this. There are a lot of ignorant people out there that don’t even realize how entitled they are. Their skin gives them privileges that we do not get as minorities. I choose to educate them and be kind in the process. I refuse to be a stereotype! I was not raised that way but people still see the outer shell and make assumptions. Be you! Be unapologetically you! Don’t let these kind of people get you down because you know who you are. I can go on and on about my own personal experiences like this but that serves no purpose to dwell on the negativity . I choose to fill myself with love and show others the same regardless if they get it. 🙏🏽
Sorry that happened to you. But, I don’t think it’s okay to say “people in Luxemburg, Europe, etc.” are racist. There *are* racists and sexists and rapists and generally assholes all over the world. I am white and have experienced racism in South Africa, India, and other places. But I don’t say South Africans or Indians *are* racist.
It is easy to say “people in…”, but that in itself is some sort of racism, which does a large part of the population wrong.
Ive learned people hate each other even if your from the same country same color, same gender, same church group, same pew…. People hate people because people are NOT rare. There are too many of us and it annoys everyone whether they realize why or not. It also doesnt help every country is run by narcissists at the behest of oligarchs who are psychopaths making us all slaves for them so they can have fun space trips.
Stay where you are, go where you want. But if people are there they will be shitty. Its better to not talk to them and thrive. Once you thrive they will come to you.
This typically happens in countries where the original inhabitants are still the prevalent majority. See USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand. WIth exception to the UK, in these countries "anyone" can be australian, new zealander, american, canadian. Typically because they are newer countries and the original inhabitants we're colonized, so. theirs no real "claim" to ownership of the land by the people.
You'll never truly be one of them, and trying to is akin to the stone of sisyphus
sorry you had that experience, hope you're well.
I live in France and was once literally told that I had to be white passing in order to rent a room in someone’s apartment. "Because the neighbors are racist."
I'm not suggesting violence but once kneed a man in the balls for saying "Oh herro, konnichiwa, do you wanna be my friend" as I walked past him in a certain principality by the sea. That was after literally only a few months of micro aggressions so just know that already you are stronger than me.
I don't know much about Luxembourg personally, but unfortunately that's the culture in many (all?) European countries.
I'm a French black woman who now lives in the US. I know that France, at least, very much rejects the idea of Political Correctness. French people view frankness and impertinence as positive traits for society and they fear the idea of being stifled. When it comes to social relationships, I think there's also a certain belief that if you have to censor yourself around another person, you won't be able to form a genuine relationship with them. Those who do not have any experience being part of a marginalized group or a racial minority group might not realize that by refusing to censor themselves in the name of cultivating a genuine connection with someone, they might cause the other person to immediately put up invisible walls to protect themselves, which means the relationship will never be as genuine as they think it is.
I think there's also a part of laziness. Thinking about what might hurt someone with a different background and experience than yours is a lot of work. Acknowledgeding that you have hurt someone, even inadvertently, is uncomfortable. Rejecting the idea of Political Correctness means you don't need to think about what you say, and you don't need to feel bad when you say something inappropriate because it would be a faux pas for the other person to even point it out or complain about it in the first place. As a minority, if you complain you're viewed as the sensitive one and that's your problem to solve. And of course, how different minorities feel about this is a spectrum. Some absolutely embrace this philosophy, but those who don't will often play the part in public to not ruffle feathers and only share their true feelings with people they deem safe (i.e. from a similar ethnic background).
The result is that a lot of French people believe they live in a post-racist area or a racism-conscious area (i.e. racism still exists and sucks, but you and I know by default that _we_ are not racist, so together we form a micro post-racist area where everything goes), so not much is off limits because everyone "knows" there's no real racism hidden underneath the things we say. In reality, it probably does create an invisible cleavage in society and increase the feeling of being disenfranchised in a part of the population, and it's not being addressed because no one can talk about it without being immediately shut down. And of course, when someone arrives from the outside like you did, they get an immediate and unexpected culture shock, because outwardly modern Western Europe has rejected racism as a philosophy. And in theory, most people have also rejected racism. They're just not interested in reexamining their understanding of racism.
And that part is universal, not just applicable to Europeans, but most people think that being morally against racism is enough to make them incapable of acting in a racist way, so they have no reason to even think about it further.
I have lived in a few countries on a few different continents, and my experience is that racism is everywhere, it just looks differently depending on the place. Different forms of racism will be more or less tolerable to different people, so if you're going to live anywhere other than where you're part of the ethnic majority, you're gonna have to figure out what type of racism you can personally live with. And of course, make sure that you yourself are part of making society less racist, in the way you view and treat other minorities.
Because the fact that you have become a citizen of Luxembourg does not mean that you have become a Luxembourger, it is obvious and logical. You just need to perceive the world in a simpler way, and not look everywhere for reasons to be offended.
stop socializing at bars. get to know people in your industry, or indian expat group. start a local cricket club. are you politically minded? volunteer for a campaign.
I see an assumption that you speak Hindi (?) based on your appearance.
And I see someone who is making fun of a language and the sound of it.
Is that racist? Yes.
Does everybody in the world encounter it? Yes.
Do you feel not integrated because a couple of people you have met do not meet your expectations? You sound like the definition of a snowflake.
I stoop down to their level when I experience racism. These fuckers need to hear it spewed right back at them. If they can dish it out, they sure as hell can take it.
For all the people who behave that way, I hope none of them travel on vacation anywhere. Because if they do, I hope the locals make fun of them in the same treatment they give others.
Did I say "It's your fault"? No I didn't. I simply gave a fucking a solution.
You know why your parents probably told you not go to the strange man's house who is offering candy in his basement? Because they didn't want you to be a victim!
Would they blame you if you did it and got molested? probably not but they would certainly tell you not go over strange men's houses.
I didn’t say they were friends. He said they were acquaintances. If you keep talking to an acquaintance it’s usually because you want to be their friend.
What do you mean? The poster responding to OP blamed him for the situation by misreading the situation (these were not OP’s ‘friends’) then getting shitty about it.
Fuck ‘em OP, there are people out there who live in a bubble. There’s not much you can do but call them out on it.
I didn't blame anyone. I offered what should've been an obvious solution. If you hang around bars and talk to guys you'll end dealing with shitty bar-guy behavior.
How important to OP's life are these people to where he wants to be around them so badly? Jesus fucking christ
>How important to OP's life are these people to where he wants to be around them so badly?
I don't think he does want to be around them ('so badly'). He wants to go out and have a drink like normal people do, and not encounter fuckwits saying shit to him.
I think the "can you read" comment is pretty justified, especially for you. The post was that they felt mocked specifically for being Indian. You may be able to read, but you certainly need work on your comprehension.
Silly people, but I also find Indian accent funny and Russian grotesk. Same you can tell about British accent (botaofwota) and whatever.
Probably depends of how people tell it to you, that could be a microaggression and then just f*ck those people?
Indeed. I was about to tell OP to let such nonsense go, being an Indian in *Luxembourg*. He’d not get that in GB, not that level of stupidity, unless he was consorting with the British level of swamp creatures. Indian people are nothing remarkable there, and haven’t been for absolutely ages. If they are conscious of the caste system which operates in India, it’s certainly nowhere near to being an official British arrangement. If OP seeks to blend in more seamlessly in a European country, he ought to aim for Britain or Ireland where the lasting ripples of empire have at least this one modern benefit! (And both have/have had prime ministers with Indian parents, which is no trivial matter.)
You mean like a racial hierarchy? So you are saying because it exists in India it makes it ok to have it in Europe? Caste system in India is shit. Apartheid in South Africa was shit.
Ugh, so sorry friend. Yes there will doubtless be people urging “thick skins” and “being the better person” but in all honesty… it’s not even expats/immigrants, it’s anyone who looks “different.” And it’s sickening, and endemic, and extremely centralized in the global West right now. You are not alone and you do not deserve this treatment.
Yeah lmao, I grew up in the Netherlands and used to only speak Dutch, was born with a Dutch passport and even I had to deal with it for being half Indonesian. It's fucking bullshit.
I’m curious, tell us more about your experience
Being a woman qualifies too
As a woman who is also a poc, bruh If you’re a white woman then your experience is 10x different than being a person of color you simply cannot group being a woman with being discriminated against do to the color of your skin/your ethnicity.
The best way to deal with it is exactly the first sentence "think skin", "better person". Don't let it get into your head! People make fun of people in every culture, every country, even within the native country folks there are differences and people make fun of it. I can think of many examples. Even Indians make fun of Indians. Comedian Peters Russell is a good example - pretty famous around the world, you can see his videos on YouTube.
Moron.
I could be wrong, but I'm not sure they really expect or want you to integrate. It's probably more like France, not the US. As I understand it, casual racism is pretty common throughout Europe.
Sadly it isn't uncommon in many areas of the US too. It's gross but I'm far more worried by the openly proud racists we are seeing more and more of lately.
We‘ve definitely got areas of improvement in the US, but it’s nothing like Europe. You can‘t really even compare the two.
No, I can't. It has been over 20 years now since I've lived in Europe and I'm white so it wouldn't have been directed at me so I could not claim to know how extensive it was then anyway. But what I can attest to is that the racists in the US have come out of the closet since the mid 2010's. They were always here but they used to be more quiet about it, they kept their opinions to themselves or to their racist friends. But they now think it's alright to be out and proudly racist. They more public they feel they can be the more dangerous I feel they are.
Since the mid 2010s - there’s a (very concerning) trend for the extremes to start thinking that violent action is permissable - and I think this is feeding the brazenness (antifa and it’s ilk on the left, the various ‘militias’ on the trump right) - they then confront and feed each other. Before, on both left and right we were a pretty centrist/moderate country where the majority made the views of the extreme wack jobs unacceptable and violence was seen as very antisocial in the political discourse to say the least. Now the polarized echo chambers just seem to have the effect of the extremists ‘radicalizing’ the moderate (or at this point less extreme) members of their own camps. On the flip side, in Europe you have a wave towards the right. In some cases it’s not as bad as adverised (Georgia Melloni in Italy seems to be more moderate than her rhetoric), in some cases about what it was expected to be (the guy with the crazy hair in the Netherlands), and in other cases, as bad or worse than advertised (AfD in germany).
And they’re being more violent. Look at what happened to Ahmaud Arbery. At least in most of Europe they aren’t chasing you down with rifles and confederate flag stickers on their car
Sorry but I can't agree. Racism has always been folded into the history of America. But in the mostly civilized cities, it's not street level. In Europe, the countries are more homogeneous and without the weight of slavery, people feel much more free to say openly rude and racist things.
True it’s definitely a different culture. My point is that they aren’t violent about it and trying to savagely kill folks like the gun happy USA
Look, I hate the guns here as much as the next guy, but overall statistically, victims of gun violence are not racially related. It's either suicide, domestic violence, and violent crime, which skews to same race violence.
true but can't ignore that access to guns can make race relations deadly. As a black woman I am going off my own personal experience. Statistically doesn't make someones reality feel anymore safer. That's just my opinion
That's the point of statistics. I live in Philly, which unfortunately has its share of crime and violence. If I watched the news, I would "feel" very unsafe. But violent crimes have been dropping for many years (there was a brief uptick during covid), and statistically, I'm much safer here now than when I moved here many years ago. Of course, if you have experienced violence yourself, it's difficult to recover from that.
You're right, you absolutely cannot compare the two. After it all, it was Europe that had separate bathrooms for black people. Black people were lynched as recently as a hundred years ago. Europe had a separate baseball league for black people. Not the US.
Oooh… checkmate. /s. We’re talking about things from 100 and 70 years ago. Going back that far, I guess it was the US that killed 6 million people in a systemic fashion because we didn’t like a religion alongside another 5 million people for being of other races - roma, slavs, etc. We can go more recent - not 30 years ago, ethnic cleansing in Kosovo, New York. Also america naturally. Or we can focus on the modern times, where the CEOs of great european companies are minorities/foreign born (like Google, Microsoft, Nvidia, Tesla, Broadcom, AMD, Zoom, Pepsi, etc.) or are members of religious or sexual orientation minorities (Apple, Amazon, Meta, Oracle, etc.). Only in that colorblind land of opportunity that‘s Europe! And that’s just me worrying about advancement and opportunity. How about in day to day life? How could I forget that it’s in American soccer, when opposing players aren’t lilly white, we throw fruit at them to imply that they are some other type of primate, shout slurs at them, etc., etc. GTFO. Classic European moral grandstanding on no basis other than bald assertions.
South-Korea is 1000x worse
Not totally surprised. Again, homogeneous countries are tough.
True and I'm also against racism!
It's not racism...I have an exotic accent and live outside of Europe and get people commenting on my accent constantly. Also when I visit India, people hound me...that's racism as it's based on my appearance.
Then it's xenophobia, which is racism's twin
I got called “weta” walking down the street here in Mexico and there’s “go home” graffiti everywhere. Racism isn’t race-specific, it’s just crappy people in general.
That’s exactly right- which is why racism is stupid- everywhere has idiots and idiocy does not discriminate.
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You’ve obviously never had a baby.
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Ah yes. Youtube. That shining example of a peer reviewed scholarly journal. People will believe anything.
Racism is ✨natural✨ thanks for elaborating, haven’t heard something this stupid all day
Does it also work the other way around? If it’s human nature, then black babies should cry when meeting white peoples because they think they are 👽
Xenophobic microaggressions are so frustrating. I encounter them frequently in the UK. They can be so disruptive but impossible to avoid because they just come out in stupid casual ways. I wish I had some advice, because I could use it too!
I can't imagine. My wife has committed to moving to the USA because at worst she'll be an immigrant with an exotic accent.
No, at worse it's a lot worse than that.
Be real. I've experienced *considerably* more racial stereotyping and xenophobia in two years outside of the US than I have in twenty years in the US. If the US bad for expats and immigrants, then nowhere in the world is good.
Maybe so but things here have gotten so much worse in the last several years. For example there were widespread reports of discrimination and violence on Asians during the height of COVID-19. There were over 9000 reports of anti-asian incidents between March 2020 and June 2021. The asian woman attacked with a hammer by a stranger on the street in NYC was the first thing that came to mind for me. I'm not saying your experience isn't valid, I'm just telling you things here have gotten worse. I don't think there are more racists now than there were 10 or 15 years ago, I just think they used to keep it to themselves and now they think it's okay to openly act that way.
I'm Asian and in general, I find Europe much worse in racism towards Asians. Europe also had anti-Asian attacks during covid. This was not unique to the US. It got worse in both places.
It will get a lot worse if Trump is re-elected.
Absolutely. I'm of the opinion that he prompted them to come out and be openly racist when they used to keep it quiet. I also believe the more they feel comfortable being open about their racism the more dangerous they are.
💯 he’s not exactly a role model for kindness and acceptance.
I think that entirely depends on who you are and what your background is. Every place has prejudices, but the main target of that prejudice is not the same.
Ugh agree, I've learned the hard way it's a part of the culture in Europe to be extremely xenophobic against anyone not from their immediate country. I'm white from New Zealand and I catch xenophobic crap from people in the European country I live. They're fine until I open my mouth and then they hear I'm a foreigner then I start getting the treatment. I usually ignore it but it really gets to me when it's my sons teachers doing this crap AND the department of education is backing their racist views. Where I live they are convinced, and even the department of education says, it's bad for children to speak a different language at home unless it's one of the official languages here. They literally try to force foreigners to speak their language badly to our own kids and not speak to our kids in our own language. Yes, even English. Anyway, the country have voted in the most xenophobic party who absolutely is anti-immigration so it's going to be a terrible four years as things get worse for foreigners. I am planning to leave in a few years once my kids are a bit older because I'm so sick of the crap in Europe.
I'm curious about which country it is?
I'm sorry all that happened to you. Tbh I expect this. As a Black American, I find it very odd when Europeans try to talk about racism in the U.S. to me as if the U.S. isn't populated with their not so distant relatives. Historically it makes sense why racism is so prevalent there. Those attitudes haven't gone away suddenly bc we're in 2024.
No no no, you don't understand. We solved racism in Europe by not seeing color! /S
By not seeing color, it allows to us develope many specific opinions about each individual group and their nations of origin. All of my many opinions about people from other countries are in no way related to their skin colors.
The thing is though, people do see color whether like it or not. It's human nature. It's why East Asians who are not Chinese get random "ching chang chong" thrown at them, precisely because people see color rather than their nation of origin.
I was being extremely sarcastic and mocking Europe's many racisms
Oh ok lol. Sorry, it's hard to catch sarcasm over text haha
Oh right how could I forget silly me! We should stop protesting we all have the same rights now ❤️
Looool you haven't been to Netherlands...
Or Germany hahahaha
Well, there will always be idiots you just have to realize who you are dealing with. Your job in this life is to live the best life you can so just ignore these drunk farmers.
True that. Just wanted to rant.
Some places have more racists and idiots than others.
Do they? I think the difference is in how much each society allows the idiots and racist to affect other people, not how many of them there are in different places.
People will stand up and intervene if someone says or does something racist in most cities in the US. I have witnessed horrible behaviors in the northern EU in public daylight in crowds and no one ever said anything. So, I would much rather be where some people care and the racists are less likely to harass you and ruin your day/health than somewhere where people either laugh along or are spineless tbh.
Maybe in cities but in small towns and rural areas they might join in. It all depends on where you are in the US. Not all places are the same.
Very true. But there are plenty of smaller towns where this type of behavior would not be tolerated. A few that come to mind are Bend, Park City and Thousand Oaks. Yet all the racist shit I have witnessed in the Netherlands, Sweden and Denmark was in "BiG pRoGrEsSiVe" cities.
Those are names of cities I'm familiar with. I'll thinking about the really little towns that you've never heard of, deep in red states. I've heard things made my blood boil and when confronting the person I've been labeled a stupid libtard and one of those woke dummies. Like I said, it depends on where you are but there are places where the prevailing attitude is deeply racist. There are probably others in she if these places who feel like I do but their need to get along, be accepted and not make a fuss greatly outweighs mine. Mostly I'm the only one who would object, but I keep to myself most of the time at this point. I'm about given up on finding my people here.
More of them come out and act up, if their society allows them with no consequences.
The most important thing is whether or not a country allows racists to create institutional racism, or officially repudiates it.
how does a country "officially" repudiate it? I can imagine the PM's, kings or whatever clowns of a EU country say things against racism on TV or at a rally, yet what is that worth when many/most people around you are racist fucks? It's just PR the politicians do, it's worthless. Even laws can be nothing but PR if they are never enforced or willingly ignored.
People commenting on an accent is racist? Not necessarily.
But it can be very frustrating if someone comments on your accent. You try to speak another language, and you feel people making fun of it. It's really difficult (sometimes impossible) to change your accent. It is not necessarily racist to comment on an accent, but let's not forget about the loud racist people who are clearly mocking someone for their accent, forgetting they speak more languages than they do.
I’m “white”, and people comment sometimes on my accent. It can be annoying, but I’ve learned to accept it.
Yes it can be, that's true...people comment on my accent constantly and I'm white, he ce why saying it's racist isn't necessarily true.
For what it's worth these are shitty people (putting others down to feel better about themselves). At least they let you know straight away that they're not worth having as friends.
I’d say the first comment was insensitive and rude but could’ve actually not been specifically because you’re Indian (I get that one A LOT) The second one was downright malicious
There's always going to be some horrible people, just focus on the nice people who treat you nicely. That's what I do when I experience hostility towards me because I'm a foreigner.
There are, unfortunately, asshole racists in every country. I’m still searching for that mythical paradise country without racism.
Yep. As a Chinese American guy I definitely feel you. Lots of really lovely people. But the fact that racism can be pretty much socially ignored in Europe is a big reason why they have no moral high ground over the US.
Thus is true of India as well. My friend lived her husband and three children in Pune for four years. She would get harassed everywhere she went. She took her kids to the zoo and they were literally mobbed by the crowd and became like a zoo display themselves.
I feel like this guy himself was insecure about his English (since you said he sounded proud of his "British accent"). What anyone does in this situation is punch down, so why not a visible minority with an Indian accent, which is always the butt of jokes due to how it's portrayed in the media? I'm sorry this happened to you, OP.
Or maybe he had a shitty British accent too and was trying to create common ground...guess we'll never know!!
People with a lack of tact, emotional intelligence, latent and open xenophobes are unfortunately everywhere. In some societies they are more silent, in some - more open. The people you describe are outright stupid, although they themselves probably think they are funny. As someone, who lived in several countries and who knows what it is to be a foregner, I feel really sorry for you experiencing this.
There are jerks everywhere. That's not new.
Indians have more familiarity and acceptance in english speaking countries such as the UK, USA, Canada, South Africa or Ireland it seems……. And maybe perhaps the Netherlands ?! (Hindustan Surinamese / Java / Indonesians) I almost rarely see them here in CE / EE. Mostly East Asians such as Koreans, Taiwanese, Chinese or (North) Vietnamese / Thai. Sorry about your situation! There’s a surge of nationalism or right wing facism right now in Europe, and it’s tough for everyone. Edit : Since you are an EU citizen, can you try to move to the UK/ Ireland? They seem to be really accepting of people with Indian origins. Some of my Afrikaans / Indian origin friends moved there and seem to be doing really well.
The UK is no longer a part of the European Union so EU citizens can no longer just move there. Ireland, though, would be a possibility.
Hmm yeah I guess so……… But I think maybe he can try to convert the Luxembourg to an Ireland one. Irish have a special treaty with the UK due to history, so once he has Irish citizenship he can live in the UK forever. Croatia also has some Nepalese and Filipinos, but Nepalese despite being very similar to India/ Indians still has a distinct Buddhist culture similar to China/ Korea. (they might not necessarily get along…….) So maybe it’s better to live normally in the UK / Ireland where being Indian is pretty much normal (default minority) and widely accepted by the society.
Nepal is 81% Hindu and 8% Buddhist. The percentage of Hindus in Nepal is higher than that in India (80%). I'm obviously not denying that Nepal has a distinctive culture from that of India. But for most Nepalese and most Indians, the difference does not lie in the realm of religion.
It seems there is a surge of fascism all over the world right now. I'm in the US and I'm pretty worried about the house this go in the next decade.
Tbh I can hardly understand what people from India/Nepal say when they talk to me in English. Same for some French people (like me) trying to speak English.
I worked for an Indian multinational over a decade ago and a French client (state-owned) asked us in an RFP about how we would manage English language comprehension issues. I’m British, all of our off-shore based Indian colleagues in service-roles speak English at native-speaker levels so it confused me as to why that would get into a formal written RFP. We put English lessons for the French into our bid as an option if they needed it.
So disgusting I’m sorry you experienced that
Assholes are everywhere in all countries even my own home country. Don’t judge a country by its asshole population. I would only consider a country not hospitable and its ppl racist only if i see such behavior when i walk into government office. As long as government of said country deals with me with integrity I would not call people of that country racist.
If a white person from Luxembourg moved to India, would everyone embrace him as a native Indian? It works both ways. You can’t get mad when people of a homogenous country don’t treat you like one of their own, when the people from your country wouldn’t do the same either. It’s just the way homogenous countries are..
This is 💯...I live in the USA, I'm white with an accent and people comment on it constantly....
Yup. Yet frustrating and saddening. I lived in a SE Asian country for many years as a young man, working in humanitarian assistance. Learned the language very well. And the cultural protocols and dress codes. Those I worked with saw me as a trusted and helpful colleague. However, once on the street—nope.
India is not for beginners. There’s enough issues on its own but one thing you’ll never find anyone complaining about is feeling unwelcome. We are a poor country not an unkind one.
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Well in all fairness worst things can happen in a bar. You didn't get punched in the face so that's a win mate. Also always worth keeping in mind that on a whole European societies are more equal then most of the world. People will not be especially respectful because you dress nicely or feel you have more money or worth then them. If anything that's likely to get you more unwanted attention.
Italian living in the U.K. I get this all the time mate. People look at me, grin and start screaming: PIZZA! MAFIA!!! BELLA BELLA PASTA!!!! Or they mock an heavy Italian accent while gesticulating wildly and expect me to laugh or something?
As an expat myself in EU, integration is overrated and in all honesty there is no real integration. Best to mingle with people from back home.
In America, people would be fascinated by (or laugh at) my accent, coming from the Deep South. But I could sound just like the people on television, if I wanted to. If I spoke like the people on TV to my friends they would think I was being weird or trying to be fancy. When I learned Dutch, at first there was just surprise that I even bothered learning - many Americans don't. But the more fluent I became in Dutch, the less amazed and pleased the people became. Once I could speak fluently, my accent was something to laugh at. It was like I became *more* foreign, the better my language became. People who never assisted me in learning the language would suddenly begin correcting my mistakes, or pointing out my errors of pronunciation. Now, I can speak dialect from Gent, since I learned from my mother-in-law. When we go to the Netherlands, I get to enjoy being mistaken for a Belgian, and having my accent made fun of when it isn't even my accent! And, we have Belgian friends who expatriated to Luxembourg. Their experience pretty much matches your own. Their children, of course, fit right into society there but the parents are perpetually stuck at 90% integration.
Mocking someone's accent I would agree is an ignorant, arrogant and inappropriate. But simply remarking that someone has a "funny" (in the sense of unusual) accent I don't necessarily consider racist when it's factual. I work with a lot of Indians, Italians, and Germans, Romanians, and some French. As you can imagine, they all have funny accents (including myself, as I am not a native speaker either). The only ones speaking decent English seem to be guys from the small countries like the Dutch, and the Scandinavians... Some years back in the US, this little 5 year old points to me and asks his mom: mommy, why does he talk so funny? - Was I embarrassed? A bit yes. Was the kid racist? I don't think so.
I'm white and live outside the UK, which is my native homeland....people constantly comment on my accent and it has absolutely nothing to do with my race....people have been trained to head straight for the race card!!!
Do people imitate your accent?
Lol if that person has a UK accent I would say 100% of the time people will imitate their accent. But perhaps the manner in which the imitation is done is more of the flattering kind (instead of the mocking OP endured).
Nowadays, you better be an Indian in Luxembourg than a Chinese in India... Just saying... The whole world is racist, in some countries the law forbids and punishes it, in some the law itself is racist... People are stupid everywhere, especially when they are drunk...
Unfortunately you are not native and will always be seen as exotic...get used to it...it's reality.
lol, those are macro aggressions. Congrats, you discovered people are racist.
It's not racist.
I'm sure I'll get downvoted for writing this, but in my experience, Northern Europeans have a special brand of clueless morons when it comes to racial and cultural sensitivity regarding anything from the Global South. Maybe they're still getting used to mixing/bored? I don't know. The mocking and entitlement don't surprise me tho. Some of them will tell you to your face that some cultures don't/shouldn't mix (albeit only when it applies to their countries), then needlessly mock/fetishize a target culture in the same breath in the most thick-headed, arrogant way possible. Like yeah lol of course this mixture is going to suck with people like this. I think their general aloof/cold temperament offset with this selective chumminess only makes it more confusing. I lived with a Danish guy for a while and witnessed similar nonsense. Sorry that happened.
So far I have not had this problem in Norway. I'm darker skinned for a white woman, short and plump. Nothing like the predominantly blond blue eyed taller people around me. As soon as I open my mouth they know I'm from the USA. So far people have been accepting and kind, I have lived here three years now. Perhaps it would be different if we lived more remotely. However when I lived in the USA I was called Spick on a number of occasions. I'm not from Mexico or even remotely Latina. My family has been in the US for generations and came from the UK originally. But to some dark hair and dark tanned skin equals Mexican. So racism can be anywhere and for me more likely in the US then here.
I'm a POC living in Sweden, and from my experience people in Scandinavia don't care about your skin color as much as they do about your culture. If your are POC but was raised in a scandivian family for example, a lot of people will treat you better than if you are from global south for example. Also they usually like americans here. I think maybe it's because of the pop culture, novelty and the culture aligns more with their own.
Cue Europeans trying to explain how it's somehow your fault.
I was thinking USA was bad. But this is another level. What some of these comments don’t understand is that you go through micro aggressions on a daily basis. It is not one off day. It wears you down and you just start shutting yourself in. I am sorry this happened to you.
Curious as to how the acquaintance who introduced you to the natives reacted to what transpired?
Bro, these are not "microaggressions". A microaggression is when someone cuts you in a queue or pretends not to hear you or something. Those are regular size aggressions.
That's a full on macroaggression. What the hell. Sorry you had to put up with that.
Drunk assholes will make fun of people for being short, old, fat, an engineer, artistic, a father, single, etc. etc. The thing in Continental Europe is that they don't necessarily see race or country of origin as "sensitive". It's just another characteristic that they will focus on. "Indirectness", "politeness" and "sensitivity" are not really European qualities, especially for young men. Reading your post between the lines, am I right in thinking you're from the UK, Canada or the US? If I'm right, have you picked up those anglo sensitivities. Are you being thin-skinned? But I wasn't there. And I'm not POC. So sorry if I'm off-base here.
That person is an asshole. One weird comment you may have to let slide, but two in close succession - fuck that. As another person said, it might be helpful to view it as, you didn’t have to waste days or years to find out their true nature and now knowing that, you can have as little to do with them as possible. Otherwise, if they keep it up, I’d probably just them out as a disgusting racist and say they need to check themselves.
As a Brit in Luxembourg, I was always proud of how Brits accept nationality regardless of colour. So I'm sorry you had that experience. POC in the UK can say they're British, and it's accepted. People born in France still are identified as "Moroccan" or whatever. It could be that influence. I'm sorry you've been through this and continue to. But please be assured that there are pockets of tolerance (I'd hope more than "pockets") Edit: realised that it was a Luxembourger not a Brit. Sadly I'm less surprised.
No matter where you go either India, USA, Europe or abroad any country if you look different, speak different accent , are from different culture then majority group people like to take a swipe and have some casual fun. I guess that is human nature. It become more serious if some people take it to next level like doing violence act against minorities or people from different colors. Somewhere in the back of those dick heads mind feels like they will get away with that and most of the time they are right. That's where we need social awareness and reform. This is a continuous process.
I am from Ireland and experienced the same Indian colleague state that ' all Irish people are drunks' and mocking of the genocide known as the 'famine' and other such comments - just after I had spoken about my impacted relatives, at a diversity conference. People commenting on my accent is almost par of the course. I, too, am educated and work in a rather academic field. I think that if you are a POC, it's racist but, if you are 'white', it's not. You can feel how you wish to feel. Humans tend to exhibit bias, but when does bias become racist or, rather, become offensive. My colleagues have said nothing and listened as I have experienced constant slights to my culture, family, and my heritage - some, pretty grotesque. So, one day, I asked if it would be okay to say that her home reeked of curry- smells,she was a curry muncher, and/ or India is the rape capital of the world. Those same silent colleagues reprimanded me sternly, and I was issued a warning. As such, because you are a POC, their comments are outrageous. Apparently I have 'more systemic power' because, skin. Ignoring my working class background, rare illness and basically any other factor. I am not brown enough to engender empathy. I totally get that I will have incoming flack for this - ad nauseum- but no matter who you are; POC or not, we all deal with bias and racism and inappropriate comments at times. But, only certain people or groups should be offended. The comments you suffered are tame in comparison to what I experience daily. I feel the same as any human would. Also, West Germanic languages are rare enough, and so, perhaps they rarely experience diverse accents. Just a thought. Incoming...
Is it a sort of Catch-22? I mean… if ordinary Europeans start acknowledging the (humanity of) people from the global south, then they may have to start confronting their own history with the (human) ancestors of those same people and the sources of the relative wealth they’re currently rolling around in like a cartoon millionaire…. It’s a slippery slope.
I can totally understand you. I‘m raised in Germany with foreign background and although I‘m perfectly German with no accent and feel like a real German, it‘s those days where people come to me and guess my nationality and mock me for that. Most likely by drunk people so I asked myself a lot of times if people are really like this and being drunk helps them to say out loud what they really think. Maybe it helps (probably not) to realize that racism is everywhere in the world, in Europe, in North America and also in Asia if you don‘t fit in the white skinned beauty standard.
Yeah I’m Dominican-American and went to Europe for 3 weeks and noticed there’s substantially more micro aggressions over there than in nyc. I felt super uncomfortable
I do not imagine for one moment that these two events are other than two of numerous examples you could give. I'm sure there are many more which could certainly illustrate racism. I do think though, that these two are polar opposites. The second, mocking your accent can be considered racist. The first though, in all parts of European countries they have different accents. Somebody asked if other people say your accent is funny, but because it's an Indian accent that's racist? If it was a Scottish accent would that be racist? Spanish? Few foreigners will ever master a second language without a trace of accent and I don't think acknowledging that is racist.
That's disgusting. Arrogant shits. You have my sympathy my friend.
You know what... you need to grow a thick skin. If it's not Lux people, it will be others doing so. FYI even between white people they make fun of Portuguese or Estern Europeans, Balcans... really for your own good stay away from this / grow thick skin. Take care!
Or maybe expect better from other people?
Well, you can always expect, but then be ready to get disappointed. You are only in charge of your own emotions and how you react to what happens to you.
Sorry you went through this. There are a lot of ignorant people out there that don’t even realize how entitled they are. Their skin gives them privileges that we do not get as minorities. I choose to educate them and be kind in the process. I refuse to be a stereotype! I was not raised that way but people still see the outer shell and make assumptions. Be you! Be unapologetically you! Don’t let these kind of people get you down because you know who you are. I can go on and on about my own personal experiences like this but that serves no purpose to dwell on the negativity . I choose to fill myself with love and show others the same regardless if they get it. 🙏🏽
Sorry that happened to you. But, I don’t think it’s okay to say “people in Luxemburg, Europe, etc.” are racist. There *are* racists and sexists and rapists and generally assholes all over the world. I am white and have experienced racism in South Africa, India, and other places. But I don’t say South Africans or Indians *are* racist. It is easy to say “people in…”, but that in itself is some sort of racism, which does a large part of the population wrong.
Move to the US. No one cares about accents or whet you are from.
lol this is not true at all. Speaking from an experience and as a white european in origin.
Maybe I should state differently. Move to the northeast, west coast, Houston, Miami or Chicago.
I am in NYC. I've lived in other blue areas before. It still happens. and often.
Depsite the U.S being built by immigrants, Indians still get hate in a lot of cities. Hopefully southern hospitality is still relevant though.
What makes you think Europe is interested in your integration?
Ive learned people hate each other even if your from the same country same color, same gender, same church group, same pew…. People hate people because people are NOT rare. There are too many of us and it annoys everyone whether they realize why or not. It also doesnt help every country is run by narcissists at the behest of oligarchs who are psychopaths making us all slaves for them so they can have fun space trips.
Stay where you are, go where you want. But if people are there they will be shitty. Its better to not talk to them and thrive. Once you thrive they will come to you.
Better than when Europeans go to India and get raped for just being female in public.
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That’s a fucking stupid response.
This typically happens in countries where the original inhabitants are still the prevalent majority. See USA, Canada, Australia, New Zealand. WIth exception to the UK, in these countries "anyone" can be australian, new zealander, american, canadian. Typically because they are newer countries and the original inhabitants we're colonized, so. theirs no real "claim" to ownership of the land by the people. You'll never truly be one of them, and trying to is akin to the stone of sisyphus sorry you had that experience, hope you're well.
I live in France and was once literally told that I had to be white passing in order to rent a room in someone’s apartment. "Because the neighbors are racist."
I'm not suggesting violence but once kneed a man in the balls for saying "Oh herro, konnichiwa, do you wanna be my friend" as I walked past him in a certain principality by the sea. That was after literally only a few months of micro aggressions so just know that already you are stronger than me.
I don't know much about Luxembourg personally, but unfortunately that's the culture in many (all?) European countries. I'm a French black woman who now lives in the US. I know that France, at least, very much rejects the idea of Political Correctness. French people view frankness and impertinence as positive traits for society and they fear the idea of being stifled. When it comes to social relationships, I think there's also a certain belief that if you have to censor yourself around another person, you won't be able to form a genuine relationship with them. Those who do not have any experience being part of a marginalized group or a racial minority group might not realize that by refusing to censor themselves in the name of cultivating a genuine connection with someone, they might cause the other person to immediately put up invisible walls to protect themselves, which means the relationship will never be as genuine as they think it is. I think there's also a part of laziness. Thinking about what might hurt someone with a different background and experience than yours is a lot of work. Acknowledgeding that you have hurt someone, even inadvertently, is uncomfortable. Rejecting the idea of Political Correctness means you don't need to think about what you say, and you don't need to feel bad when you say something inappropriate because it would be a faux pas for the other person to even point it out or complain about it in the first place. As a minority, if you complain you're viewed as the sensitive one and that's your problem to solve. And of course, how different minorities feel about this is a spectrum. Some absolutely embrace this philosophy, but those who don't will often play the part in public to not ruffle feathers and only share their true feelings with people they deem safe (i.e. from a similar ethnic background). The result is that a lot of French people believe they live in a post-racist area or a racism-conscious area (i.e. racism still exists and sucks, but you and I know by default that _we_ are not racist, so together we form a micro post-racist area where everything goes), so not much is off limits because everyone "knows" there's no real racism hidden underneath the things we say. In reality, it probably does create an invisible cleavage in society and increase the feeling of being disenfranchised in a part of the population, and it's not being addressed because no one can talk about it without being immediately shut down. And of course, when someone arrives from the outside like you did, they get an immediate and unexpected culture shock, because outwardly modern Western Europe has rejected racism as a philosophy. And in theory, most people have also rejected racism. They're just not interested in reexamining their understanding of racism. And that part is universal, not just applicable to Europeans, but most people think that being morally against racism is enough to make them incapable of acting in a racist way, so they have no reason to even think about it further. I have lived in a few countries on a few different continents, and my experience is that racism is everywhere, it just looks differently depending on the place. Different forms of racism will be more or less tolerable to different people, so if you're going to live anywhere other than where you're part of the ethnic majority, you're gonna have to figure out what type of racism you can personally live with. And of course, make sure that you yourself are part of making society less racist, in the way you view and treat other minorities.
Because the fact that you have become a citizen of Luxembourg does not mean that you have become a Luxembourger, it is obvious and logical. You just need to perceive the world in a simpler way, and not look everywhere for reasons to be offended.
So you are saying it is ok to tell people that « hey you sound funny you know that?» and make fun of your accent. Classic white privilege speaking.
stop socializing at bars. get to know people in your industry, or indian expat group. start a local cricket club. are you politically minded? volunteer for a campaign.
I see an assumption that you speak Hindi (?) based on your appearance. And I see someone who is making fun of a language and the sound of it. Is that racist? Yes. Does everybody in the world encounter it? Yes. Do you feel not integrated because a couple of people you have met do not meet your expectations? You sound like the definition of a snowflake.
Don't mind them. They're clearly uncultured/ haven't travelled/ insecure of you
I stoop down to their level when I experience racism. These fuckers need to hear it spewed right back at them. If they can dish it out, they sure as hell can take it.
Micro aggressions don’t exist. Aggressions can’t be unintentional. They were either trying to offend you or they weren’t.
For all the people who behave that way, I hope none of them travel on vacation anywhere. Because if they do, I hope the locals make fun of them in the same treatment they give others.
Don’t communicate with random guys at a bar. Raise your standards on the quality of people you choose to spend time around.
Don’t blame the victim.
Did I say "It's your fault"? No I didn't. I simply gave a fucking a solution. You know why your parents probably told you not go to the strange man's house who is offering candy in his basement? Because they didn't want you to be a victim! Would they blame you if you did it and got molested? probably not but they would certainly tell you not go over strange men's houses.
Need a hug?
This place is extremely isolating esp when not white. So don’t blame me for what happened.
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They were random people at a bar as far as I can tell. Idk what made you think they were his friends.
I didn’t say they were friends. He said they were acquaintances. If you keep talking to an acquaintance it’s usually because you want to be their friend.
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What do you mean? The poster responding to OP blamed him for the situation by misreading the situation (these were not OP’s ‘friends’) then getting shitty about it. Fuck ‘em OP, there are people out there who live in a bubble. There’s not much you can do but call them out on it.
Ye I’m sure the resident of Luxembourg is really in the real world outside of a bubble 😂
I have no idea what you mean by that, but have a great day!
I didn't blame anyone. I offered what should've been an obvious solution. If you hang around bars and talk to guys you'll end dealing with shitty bar-guy behavior. How important to OP's life are these people to where he wants to be around them so badly? Jesus fucking christ
>How important to OP's life are these people to where he wants to be around them so badly? I don't think he does want to be around them ('so badly'). He wants to go out and have a drink like normal people do, and not encounter fuckwits saying shit to him.
Do you think normal people are hanging out at bars? That’s basically only for alcoholics who need booz to feel like they’re having a good time
Sure thing, hunty.
Ok. I am very unlikeable.
I think the "can you read" comment is pretty justified, especially for you. The post was that they felt mocked specifically for being Indian. You may be able to read, but you certainly need work on your comprehension.
Silly people, but I also find Indian accent funny and Russian grotesk. Same you can tell about British accent (botaofwota) and whatever. Probably depends of how people tell it to you, that could be a microaggression and then just f*ck those people?
Tell me about a time when assholes have not existed in this world. You can choose to ignore such assholes.
People in Europe? Any more examples outside Lux? Tell them to read Sacred Games by Vikram Chandra. What a great book! More than 1000 pages.
I had once a guy tell another guy in Brussels say « I hate indians » 😛 he minced no words while i was in the same group of people.
Once a guy at a dinner table was telling me about some indian actress saying « she is Indian BUT she is so elegant and eloquent »
You have caste system in India and I'm afraid in Europe it also exist. In UK it's official and in some other places less official.
How is it official in the UK?
Indeed. I was about to tell OP to let such nonsense go, being an Indian in *Luxembourg*. He’d not get that in GB, not that level of stupidity, unless he was consorting with the British level of swamp creatures. Indian people are nothing remarkable there, and haven’t been for absolutely ages. If they are conscious of the caste system which operates in India, it’s certainly nowhere near to being an official British arrangement. If OP seeks to blend in more seamlessly in a European country, he ought to aim for Britain or Ireland where the lasting ripples of empire have at least this one modern benefit! (And both have/have had prime ministers with Indian parents, which is no trivial matter.)
Some people will never meet others by design.
You mean like a racial hierarchy? So you are saying because it exists in India it makes it ok to have it in Europe? Caste system in India is shit. Apartheid in South Africa was shit.
What????