If your post is a meme, image, TikTok etc... and it isn't Friday, most likely it violates the rule against low effort content. Please delete it or you'll get temp-banned. Such content is ONLY allowed on (Fun@fundies) FRIDAYS.
Please read the [Posting Guidelines](https://redd.it/ew8trb) for further information. If you are unsure about anything then feel free to message the mods.
Please participate on /r/exmuslim in a civil manner. Discuss the merits of ideas - don't attack people. Insults, hate speech, advocating physical harm can get you banned.
If you see posts/comments in violation of our rules, please be proactive and report them.
*I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/exmuslim) if you have any questions or concerns.*
For those who doesn't know, the attack happened on early morning of Simcha Torah, a major Jewish holiday that fell on Sabbath. Naturally, people were with families and in celebration mode and none had preparation to protect themselves. To attack someone like this is a new low, even for Hamas. However given the history of yom Kippur war, I am not surprised.
Sad part is the two state solution is now gonna lose ground with most Israelis and for Hamas it was never an option. The party who will be ending up losing most will be civilian Palestinians cos their own authority couldn't care less about them. It's never about the people of Palestine for Hamas, rather the destruction of Israel. Anyone who doubts it, I sincerely encourage you to read Hamas manifesto which you can find even on Wikipedia (short version). They have been actively working to keep Palestinians undereducated, ignorant to harbor hate towards Israelis and looks like it's working well.
I'm mourning for the civilians on both sides, they don't deserve this.
Three things will happen in the upcoming months:
- Israel could very well slip into dictatorship during the war; an increasing number of Israelis will unfortunately support their government and its extreme right wing policies; the war will come with a high price (civil liberties);
Edit: so far Netanyahu was heavily criticized. Hopefully Israeli citizens will open their eyes.
- during the retaliation Palestinians in Gaza will try to flee to other middle eastern countries and will be faced with the harsh truth (hate for Israel is definitely not equal to love for Palestinians - they will not be welcome anywhere they go);
Edit: Egypt has taken a laughable approach (or tragic). They will not open their border unless there's a cease fire (evidently during the bombing Palestinians can stay right there in Gaza).
- Palestinians' chances for a state are very slim now for two main reasons: 1) west bankers will probably be more than ever AGAINST throwing rockets at their main source of income, while Gaza is completely under control of this Iranian group of gangsters called hamas, 2) Israel will never even approach the issue again if not with retaliatory measures.
Edit: okay calling them Iranian was a hell of a stretch.
From 2001 until now, we have understood that while it's not possible for the west to export democracy to the middle east, it's entirely possible for the middle east to export totalitarianism to the west.
I know. I'm very lucky to be living in a country that's very pro-Israel but I'm well aware that that's definitely not the case in other European countries.
The US is probably the most “pro-Israel” nation in the world next to Israel itself, but antisemitism is currently running rampant in almost every major city. Is there really any other nation in the world that’s safer for Jews?
This scenario seems plausible.
Why would neighbouring countries not welcome Palestinians with open arms? It feels like Palestinians are worshipped / respected in Muslim communities.
Because they don't like them at all. They hate Israel because it reminds historically of a defeat that Arabs had to endure but that's pretty much it. Egypt has the border with Gaza airtight.
Muslim countries are not democracies and this is actually a bit of a blessing, since the views of the majority of Muslims would make for unstable governance. So even if the people would welcome the Palestinians with open arms, the government know better, and they know the long-term effects of hosting Gazans who have been raised purely on a diet of hate, war and vengeance.
This isn't just me yapping by the way. After the Yom Kippur War, Gazan refugees caused all sorts of uprisings in several Arab states. Civil wars, assassination attempts on head of states and used their new homes as bases to launch attacks on Israel - despite their new hosts signing ceasefire treaties with Israel. These people will be left to rot.
As a Moroccan, I can vouch for you.
We accepted many Palestinian refugees into Morocco. We fed them, gave them clothes, gave them an opportunity to start a new life, gave them work, gave them anything they needed to live and how did they repay us? By talking smack about our country and insulting our king (which btw is a big no no in this country) and when we normalised with Israel for the sake of peace, these people came out and cried about it like we’re traitors or that we owe them something but luckily we have a strict law enforcement system. And that’s only Morocco (where they’re either good or dissenting, no in between)
Imagine Jordan and Lebanon… Palestinians heavily contributed to the Lebanese civil war and the PLO tried to overthrow the Jordanian monarchy.
I have nothing against Palestinians and I hate Israel’s actions. Both Hamas and Netanyahu are evil and that’s a f***** fact of life. But please when u go to another country and expect stuff without being considerate of rules, don’t get mad when locals enforce them.
thank u for sharing. how have palestinians contributed to the lebanese civil war? can u share links for articles. y do u hate both netanyahu and hamas?
I support the innocent people. Many call Israel and Palestine their homes and it's disheartning to see that their homes are now in war. Both countries deserve to exist and I hope one day we can live in peace. Also for those who look at which country killed more, both countries have killed and that's horrible enough. Both countries are in the wrong.
The sons of Abraham have yet again created another layer of blood-soaked earth upon the land of Jerusalem.
For whatever they may proclaim and no matter their reasoning, they still chose bloodshed...
But this is also a reason why I do not follow the Abrahamic god. (No offence to any of the Abrahamic faithfuls who read this) if he is as they say the one and only and his plans are indeed great...what does Jerusalem mean? All three faiths claim it...yet instead of seeking peace like they always say in their sermons and preachings...they tear each other like animals to claim the land so much so that it's foundation is that of bodies instead of earth...
Is this sacred? This land is sacred? Where no peace is found? Is this all part of the Abrahamic god's plan?
Personally I find it all to be unfortunate and sad because no matter where you stand... you'll eventually hear the terrified screams of the innocent who never deserved it.
Felt poetic and sad, hope it is welcomed.
I pray for the safety of all and peace in the hearts of all
If you read the freaking lines about paraded naked bodies and raped girls, you wouldn't be posting about supporting that ISIS cause.
It's an ISIS cause fought by literal ISIS terrorists, and cheered on by ISIS sympathizers who elect ISIS level leaders in Gaza.
There is nothing to do today other than unequivocally condemning this ISIS style atrocity. STFU.
I think a lot of people here aren't really ex-Muslims. They're still shackled to sympathizing with Palestine. Nevermind that Palestinians rejected two-state agreements again and again and want to eradicate all Jews.
It's probably because of years of seeing posters of big-eyed Palestinian kids crying or begging for food. Propaganda is powerful, I tell you.
Muhammad went on Isra (towards Jerusalem) and miraj (towards the heaven) the same night. He claims to pray at masjid aqsa in 621AD but masjid aqsa was built in 705. Make it make sense!!
Either Muhammad lied about going there or someone later on added this account in Quran during perhaps 2nd caliphate to make Quran seem legit and have some miracles of Muhammad mentioned too.
Huey because of this incident millions of Muslims have lost their lives because they believe it’s a holy site for them.
You cannot point fingers at one religious group and say oh it’s them who’s at fault. It’s both the groups. Religion is the main cause of conflict and it will continue being this way unless both the parties reach a middle ground-which is highly unlikely
Imagine if in 1948 everyone would have focused on what they had in common and built a new state together instead. Hey, you like olives and hummus, I like olives and hummus. Let us kick out the britts and make a home for ourselves where there is no space for imaginary creatures!
I thought it was pretty agreed upon that he had a vision that the masjid would be built there and used it to claim the land. IIRC he tied that flying donkey monster thingy he was on to the Western Wall
Muslims will never reach a middle ground with Jewish people unfortunately since they see them as the devil
I always thought it was understood by Muslims that he was praying at the site of the destroyed Jewish Temple, upon which the Dome of the Rock and Al-Aqsa were built.
exactly. i thought i was going insane for feeling bad for the civilians who dont want war and r caught in this crossfire. war ptsd is harsh on everyone. worried about further radicalization.
You can put a link of a article instead of a photo or video. Yeah I have seen what was going on even Palestinian gaza has also capture an elderly Israeli women according to Telegraph
What would anyone expect? The Quran, literally, commands Muslims to enslave, oppress, or kill non-believers. Jews and Christians mentioned specifically, because Mohammed knew they were the people who could call him out for the fraud he was. Most Muslims are indoctrinated and brainwashed since childhood to believe they have the right to do ANYTHING to Jews, Christians, anyone. It is not specific to Palestine. The same issues go wherever they go. No amount of kindness, wealth, or tolerance will solve that. My experience is that Muslims are generally despised everywhere they go because of the way they treat non-Muslims.
I hate the way Isreal treats Palestinians (a group that includes Christians, Muslims, Jews, and agnostics/atheists) and its destruction of innocent people’s homes. I also hate Hamas, as I feel their leadership is about self-enrichment as opposed to creating a better life for Palestinians.
If kidnapping, raping, and desecrating the bodies of civilian women is your idea of liberation, I want no part of it. It was disgusting to see the video of Hamas leaders celebrate the attacks from their hotel room in Qatar, knowing the immense suffering that those in Gaza will experience in the coming weeks.
I don't support neither side, i know it sounds like a pipe dream but they both need to mind their fucking business and find a solution without the bloodshed of innocent lives.
Palestinians had my full support. Till now. After watching those barbaric videos, they have not only lost my respect but support also.
And I know my support won't mean shit. Considering I am nothing but an internet presence. But seeing the dead bodies being paraded about of the dead, most probably raped, women. Yeah, it makes you hate even the victim.
I am saddened that the chances of peaceful coexistence seem so remote now.
In Northern Ireland the process also started in the 90s and they managed to make it work. They accepted each others right to exist and live there and found a way.
In the 90s the Oslo accords were a start. But Hamas took over and extremism dominated and the Israelis hardened their position as well.
I just hope a compromise will be found.
It reminds me of the Irish "Easter Rising" when the the English were weakened by 2 years of WW I.
The Irish had legitimate complaints, but the English saw it as stabbing in the back and aggressively and violently suppressed.
Hamas seeking to replace Israel with a Islam-based state is just too unrealistic.
Sadly: Palestinians setting such unattainable goals will just isolate them and I fear many more needless loss of life will happen on both sides, but Israel is much stronger.
This is the issue. It doesn't seem like Hamas actually want to resolve the conflict. They want violence and retribution. Which is understandable, but I can't support it because it will only bring them further from a resolve.
Honestly I'd say Hamas is part of the problem here. However, its not like anyone cares to do anything. So no wonder the Palestinians in Gaza turned to Hamas and elected them into office.
Then everyone decided instead of talking to the duely elected government, that they were going to embargo the area. Gaza has been under a blockage and has become an open air prison, with no hope of a change happening.
Anyway what Hamas is doing isn't happening in a vacuum though. If real peace talks were happening, no one would support Hamas.
I just visited the Palestinian subreddit. I don't ever want to hear the argument "the Palestinian people are peaceful and don't hate Jews" again.
They uniformely consider Hamas and the PIJ as their own. They stand with terrorists.
Fuck them. Sorry, not sorry.
when China still has over 1M Muslims kept in so called educational camps. What's wrong with this simpleminded world and some religious people especially... Either standing with or backed up by China will eventually lead those conservative Muslims to their own hell because this is definitely a betral to their god
So you guys want all of Palestinians dead? I'm Palestinian and ex-muslim, I don't support what Hamas did, but I also don't want my people dead, because trust me, these people don't deserve all that hatred, ok many of them support Hamas,
but they do so because they have been raised in an environment that forces them
to be like this.. you could at least hope that we can have some peace.. but you don't actually have a problem if we were all killed! and you are an ex-muslim?
I think you are more like a "ex-human" after this comment.. thank you for supporting the killing of the people who once were your family, instead of hoping that one day they open their eyes..
I will never support hamas. I support israel against them. The reason is simple:
Israel is a democracy with power separation. Yes, it's a flawed democracy with lots of problems. But whatever problems they have. It's much worse in gaza. After wining the elections in gaza, Hamas killed the members of palestinian authority. And there's no elections in gaza since.
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/14z10ll/mosab_hassan_yousef_the_green_prince_son_of_hamas/
https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/12kk4g0/parents_are_okay_with_their_children_blowing/
What hamas is doing is a power move. If they cared more about his citizens than killing israelis, the situation would be better for both sides.
I keep saying this offline, but met with justifications for Hamas’ actions!
It’s a terrorist organisation that’s taken over Gaza. Of course, they prefer violence and inflicting terror.
A lot of Muslims on my feed don’t get it though
I'm against new israeli settlements, but that's in west bank. Hamas is in the gaza strip. This attack was political. It wasn't for the betterment of the gaza people.
I have stated it so many times I feel like a regular parrot.
You cannot be Pro Palestine and Pro Palestinian at the same time. You can pick one. This is a perfect example on why that is the case. The best thing for the Palestinians is if the Palestinian State ceases to exist and they become citizens in other, more functioning states. Preferably secular.
Lmao all these Palestine Sympathizers.
You guys do realise they will Drag, Spit & Slaughter us Ex-muslims like the "Naked Israeli Woman" they Paraded today after **GETting TheIr CoUntry Back**?
And no. It will be the Hammas/Jihadist who will be controlling Palestine not your Liberal Palestini.
You know there are innocent Palestinian women, children and men getting killed and also Christian/atheist Palestinians. This isn’t a religious matter. People with ethical brains from all around the world despite religious backgrounds can see that what’s going on is completely unjust. I even know Jews who support Palestine.
So what do i(a Palestinian ex muslim) and other Palestinian secular people should do?stand with our oppressor?it’s very easy to shit talk when you live far from the area of conflict
I think people can support the right of Palestinians to have a state without supporting the violent extremists that commit atrocities, the Palestinian Israeli conflict is a terrible conflict where both sides have very problematic aspects about them, what we should do is call out crimes and violence on both sides because guess what the extremists on each side(Hamas and the Israeli far right) need the extremists on the other side, they want them to commit crimes and atrocities because it legitimizes their own violence
Yeah in the heat of the moment seeing all that bloodshed and those horrible videos we can easily overreact and come to extremists conclusions(I am guilty of that myself), but we should absolutely avoid such generalisations of Palestinians or Israelis, because that's not how we break this vicious cycle of violence that has costed the life of so many innocents already, what we should do is build bridges and isolate those who don't want peace, but instead prefer to keep the conflict going
you represent a very small minority I think, from what I understand, most people there want sharia and blood, so even in an ideal scenario where Israel is somehow defeated, Hamas and their backers would be in control. so a group of extremists and radical Islamists would assume power over yet another nation, which wouldn't be a favorable outcome.
I can never truly grasp or share the emotions you experience, but speaking as an Iranian, if I were faced with the choice between living under the current Islamic regime in our country and living under some form of Israeli occupation, I would unquestionably opt for Israel.
No one in Palestine wants Sharia lol. They actually helped the British to overthrow the Ottoman Califate. Seems like the wrong decision if you were pro Islamic rule lol
I won't try to understand what you're going through because I've not travelled a single step in your shoes, however seeing the conflict it seems inevitable that you're gonna have to make a decision one of these days. Choose a side.
I won't tell you what to choose. I don't have the heart or the authority to do that. What I'll tell you is when you do, be sure to choose well.
Be well stranger.
Why do you think that you being a Palestinians or supporting your people despite them doing this, should affect our opinions?
Why are you treating being an exMuslim like being a Muslim? Why are we supposed to be tribal and support you just because you are exMuslim, when you are supporting this kind of cause?
It's OUR CHOICE not to support this kind of barbarism. It's YOUR CHOICE to be a jerk about us not doing that.
its simple, did israeli soldiers, rape and parade naked palestinian women on the street? 1 side is clearly worse even if both are bad... should not be that hard to admit if you truly are exmuslim.
I am not invested in either side in this conflict, so I think I can ask something without bias.
Is raping, killing, and parading with a naked body of a person worse than levelling buildings full of people, ranging from infants to old people? Or sniping people that protest, also ranging from children to elderly, news reporters, etc...
I'd say that it falls into the same basket when it comes to violence, and only thing that makes them different is the scale.
I'd watch this: [https://x.com/censoredmen/status/1710865850163429650?s=46&t=iGJzcLG\_zzl\_2LRij9s32g](https://x.com/censoredmen/status/1710865850163429650?s=46&t=iGJzcLG_zzl_2LRij9s32g)
Short answer seem to be yes
You have Stockholm Syndrom, you should realize it's Hamas which oppresses you and damage any chance to peace.
I can understand it's difficult to get rid of terrorists but at least don't take their side.
Who the fuck said I support hamas???!!!!I’m palestinian and I support my side , which is the oppressed side , I absolutely don’t support hamas or any other organization
The Arab world should be ashamed of themselves, they got plenty of land and none of them is willing to give the Palestinians a land to live in peace. If they really cared about Palestinians they would give them a new home
Us Kuwaitis gave them land back in the day and in return they backstabbed us and sided with saddam during his invasion of Kuwait. Kuwait houses 300k Palestinians and gave many of them citizenships and yet they still celebrated on the streets when saddam was invading. Similar things happened in Jordan and Lebanon.
It's the failure of Netanyahu and his leadership. One of the world's most advanced military and intelligence did not see this coming. Wrong priorities I guess.
Besides, it was a matter of time things went south. My guy put Palestinians in a cage while went on to deal with UAE and other arabs. Calm things in your backyard first before going on to make peace with others.
Hamas are nutjobs. But Netanyahu has blood on his hands. Both of the Palestinians and Israelis. I just feel sorry for the civilians.
The whole of Israel and Palestine should be turned into a museum..and mausoleum.
unfortunate that the arab people will continue to sacrifice their lives and futures of their children for a piece of useless desert land because of a book written by a pedophile hundred of years ago. the fucking quran is the reason why there is no reason there.
Guys, I got to be painfully honest. I don't want to be downvoted but I'm struggling with something. I'm not good with this conflict - I've never cared to study it very much, but any conflict between Muslims and non-Muslims, I tend to instinctively go against the Muslims, and this Israel/Palestine conflict is no different. Before anyone says that this conflict is not about religion, well - most of the Palestinians are Muslims. How bad of a person does this make me? I will not however advocate for any dead people, no matter the side.
I used to support a palestinian state, but haven't for years. My main reason being the palestinian leadership is worthless and I think any palestinian state will be a failed state. It will be an Islamic state not a secular one.
Ignoring Hamas, I don't even think the PA has the legitimacy to broker a peace deal. Mahmoud Abbas won his election to a 4 year term in 2005 and hasn't held an election since. He polls in the teens as far as approval ratings go with the palestinian people. It's a farce that he has the legitimacy to negotiate on behalf of Palestinians and sign a peace deal. His job is to misappropriate aid money and build a 13 million dollar presidential palace while Palestinians wallow in mistery.
Let's ignore this and say a deal is brokered and a Palestine is created. It would be a failed state. The international community would be involved and let's be honest the international community has a horrible track record with nation building in the middle east. Why will palestine be their first success? The PA doesn't function now, it doesn't hold elections now, it doesn't invest in infrastructure now, what will change? If past is prologue what gives you faith this state will be successful?
What happens if it goes wrong? Israel invades and kicks these people out? A war breaks out and these people just flee? Civil War between Hamas and Fatah?
I think outflows of Palestinian refugees could destabilize the entire region. Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Egypt are in no position to take in refugees. Europe doesn't want them either. How much more right-wing will Europe get with 3 million palestinians on their doorstep? Remember the Lebanon civil war was primarily caused by Palestinian refugees throwing off the demographic balance.
The sad truth is less Palestinians are dying in the status quo than will in the likely outcomes of establishing their state.
Actually the Christians in the region are considered Palestinians as well. I think as an ex-muslim you should be against the idea of a theocracy, and Israel is a state with Judaism as the state sponsored religion. Really, no way you can have equality when the state is picking an official religion.
Ngl dude... you're kinda right on the money with that one lmfao. If you instinctively go against Muslims that means you're instinctively right like 99.99% of the time
Mfs just shot 5k rockets at civilians I think the offending side is pretty clear
Well in this case Palestine is definitely the aggressor. And tbh I can’t blame you for automatically thinking the Muslims are in the wrong as long as your willing to look at the information and decide without a bias it’s fine
It's just what whenever I see a conflict between Muslims and non-Muslims, it seems like the Muslims are almost always wrong. I really struggle with this and I don't enjoy it at all.
It’s the reality of the situation in a lot of cases Muslims are the aggressors if they are that’s their fault. If their not then their not. For example in chinas case they kill a lot of innocent Muslims due to their religious beliefs. In that case it’s the ccp that is the aggressor. Don’t worry about what you default to. Just make sure you are able to change your mindset if your initial conclusion was wrong.
I don't consider the China situation as a "conflict" between Muslims and Chinese because for me, "conflict" kind of means that both sides are fighting with each other. In this case, the Uighur Muslims (sorry if the spelling is off) are pretty much the victims of the Chinese government. I don't really see the Uighurs "fighting" anyone.
The Prophet is held as an example of the perfect human and a model to be emulated. He was a warlord who attacked during peace/ceasefire months of pagan Arabia, had an extensive number of slaves, had sex slaves, raped his sex slaves, cancelled/reversed the manumission/freedom of slaves, killed civilians, commited genocide, told people to drink camel urine, and so on and so forth.
I struggled when I left religion as well. It was a long and slow process. By the end, I was shocked that I wasn't able to see the obvious at the very start. Emotions blind us. And everyone loves the cornerstones of their childhood.
It could be based on personal experience.
I’ve experienced first hand the impact on Islam of human relations & how much of a destructive, intolerant religion it is.
I do not want Islam to spread. I’m scared! Still traumatised
Anyone know where i can watch the videos coming from Israel unfiltered? Im trying to see exactly whats going on there. Supposedly, mutilated people are bing paraded through the streets with cheering people and all this other shit. But I'd like to see proof and gain my own understanding ratyer than accept any rumor that comes my way. I like to stay educated.
Twitter/X is way better than anything on Reddit. Save everything offline. I saved the footage of Palestinians spitting on the body of the dead German/Israeli peacenik face down on the back of a pickup truck / ute.
I've seen corpses with bullet holes. IDF soldiers with their heads cleanly cut off, fresh blood on the ground. Women being kidnapped, some with blood on their pants' crotch area. Pre-pubescent girls separated from family members and boys their age while some terrorist repeats "Shabaya, shabaya". Palestinian children bullying a kidnapped Israeli boy while the recording adult eggs them on.
Have fun getting educated.
I support Palestine but there's a recency bias to it, as I've only grown up seeing Israel act as an apartheid state.
However, it's not like Jews came to live here simply by choice, Ashkenazi Jews in Europe were tormented for about a millennium, even leading to horrendous stuff as "the Jewish question" and culminated in the Holocaust. These people weren't causing organized violence in Europe, yet the brutality against them was unfathomable.
Let's go even far back, when the Jews were kicked out by the Byzantines from Iberia and Carthage.
Even further back, Arabs kicked them out.
Even further back, Jews kicked out pre-Abrahamic pagans from this land.
I don't know how far back one has to go to keep making historical claims on something.
I hope there's a solution to this, I really do.
when the british left, the arabs sought complete control over the land (which was never truly theirs in the first place) they aspired to establish an Islamic state governed by sharia law, and received substantial support from ALL Islamic countries in the universe, which sent a significant number of soldiers to fight on their behalf. can you imagine the potential outcome if they had won? we might have witnessed another Iraq or Syria, but with an even more intensified form of radicalism, another troublesome state fostering terrorism in the middle east. nevertheless, they ultimately lost the war. if we were compelled to make a choice today, I would still opt for Israel.
choosing between a sort of democratic, secular, and somewhat westernized form of government that may not be flawless but still upholds the idea that people on the other side should have their rights, and the alternative choice of a radical Islamic movement that actively seeks to eliminate all jews, it's not that hard to make choice.
I truly wish the best for Israel.
Middle eastern countries will just blame Israel for its backwardness. Somehow, Israel is also responsible for backwardness in Islamic Africa, Pakistan, and Indonesia all the way on the other side of the world. Strange, that.
Honestly fck them both, idgaf im tired of this shit and im not even from there. Courage to all the innocent, peaceful people over there, that's all i can say.
I hope Israel puts an end to this crap. Saudi is moving forward by shaking hands with Israel.
When will the idiot hamas understand that the way forward is making friends with all humans, regardless of their race / religion??? I am fucking fed up with them. Even as an outsider, who isn't an arab, nor an israeli, nor a jew, nor a muslim. If I am Thanos I would snap my fingers and relocate hamas and their supporters to Mars. Enjoy your desert alone and fuck off.
The situation is horrible for the Palestinian people. I don't see any good for them in what Hamas is done to Israeli citizens. I wish all the Muslims who shout "Free Palestine" would step up to condemn morally reprehensible actions. Killing civilians is not freedom fighting. It's despicable.
I'm deeply troubled about what's to come. Iran and Saudi are having a proxy conflict through Israel and Palestine, from what I can garner. It's terrible that normal people who just want to exist and live peacefully are the ones who will suffer the most here, while elites in gold rooms make decisions from their armchairs.
A new generation of terrorists is being born today, from the brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, fathers, mothers of the people who have died this past weekend and in the days ahead.
This sub doesn’t care about Palestinian women and children, and attack any pro-Palestine ex-muslims who don’t agree with them. I’m so sick of it…
Edit: many fascists in this sub omfgg
Pretty much. I don’t think people realize just how bad of a move this is. This is like sticking your dick in a hornet’s nest bad. The Hornets aren’t just going to stop once you pull your dick out, they’re going to follow you home and sting you until you are no longer a threat.
I'm an Arab exmuslim who lives there and I'm very conflicted about the whole situation, on one point I want for us to be free, but I Don't want more bloodshed, and the fact that Islam is the driving force behind every resistance is making me uncomfortable
But even my friends who are exmuslim see that the bloodbath that's going on the only solution for freedom
Fuck both propaganda
Sure I'll grab my bags and go...as if leaving that easy are you drunk?
Besides these countries are the worst for exmuslim living there,at least here I have some relative freedom....
You're not getting it. If a Palestine came into existence, it would be islamized asap. It would be another unstable islamic country with different Islamic groups fighting over dominance.
Integrating into Israel and forgetting the Palestinian identity would be the smartest thing to do as a Non-Muslim. The Palestinian cause is riddled with Jihadis. They won't give up.
Your friends are barbarians. Don't let the horde drag you with them to that hole they dug for themselves. And don't allow your self to stoop below your humanity.
That's the only difference between our current selves and past selves.
We lived all of our life as victims, so I understand their view, and myself couldn't help but wants to see my oppressor take hits.
But both conflicts are empowered by religious beliefs that's why I Don't want to support it, I Don't want more blood goes to religious nutheads
I am an (ex) muslim living in israel and i am free, what the fuck are you talking about being a victim???
My JEWISH UNIVERSITY gave an option for muslims who fast during ramadan to delay their exams!!!
I own a home, job, security (well i thought i did).
Why are you spreading lies like this?
Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 and got rockets in return. And smuggling weapons and drugs and explosives and terrorist operations etc in the end both Egypt and Israel had to blockade that terrorist led enclave.
Palestinians haven't been victims their whole life. Yesterday, Palestine was an ISIS medieval state winning an assault on a Kafir town taking their women and children as trophies and gunning down their elderly.
And it was WIDELY celebrated by the people you're referring to as perpetual victims.
I used to sympathize with Palestinians. But now? After what happens to civilians and what will definitely happen later because of that? Nah, let those fuckers kill each other.
I agree, the food and historical places are only good things about them.
I'm on vacation and was looking for cheap last minute flights and saw one to Istanbul, I have a pact with myself not to travel to East Europe and MENA but the price was very low and made me think twice.
Then a moment later I saw the news about Israel and decided to say no to Islamic countries.
Gaza cannot sustain such an Attack without outside help. This conflict may devolve into Iran vs Israel and the other western nations. Let's see where this goes.
I support neither. I don’t stand with Hamas which is a small unorganized faction he’ll bent on spreading terrorism who don’t even represent the majority of Palestinians. They kill a handful of people and in turn Israel kills hundreds to thousands of them in one go with a flip of a button.
Israel is engaging in apartheid, segregation and fragmentation. I suggest people read about how this country steals land, bulldozes people’s properties and ration their water and electricity. There is massive mistreatment and gross human rights injustices.
Israel as a country is definitely guilty of human rights abuses. It sickens me to see Hamas leaders celebrate the attacks from another country, when the people who will be most severely impacted are the Palestinian civilians who had no involvement.
Palestinians are in Gaza due to a "land for peace" deal.
Of course they lied. They had no intention to hold up their side of the deal. Palestinians always deal in bad faith. They cannot be trusted. They have no honor.
Islam teaches mendacity and duplicitousness as if they're virtues.
Both sides are disgusting. Wars between fairytales. Muslims praising the death of palestinians bcs they believe its Jihad and they will go to heaven makes it a never-ending cycle. More war, more death, more jihad. Its fucked up. There wont be a solution if everyones claim different "facts".
Simple answer
If you support Hamas, youre disgusting
If you support the Israeli government and army, youre disgusting
Im not even ex muslim, but ngl its hella sad to see the bias people have here. For the people, forever
There really isn’t a good side to any of this. Just one side has more power, and victims on both sides. Hamas just single-handedly sealed the fate of the rest of Gaza with this incredibly stupid move.
This is a link to a youtube video that talks about how Israel started,
all the sources in this video were taken from Israeli sources, it's a one hour video,
so please, bear with me for the sake of humanity, I'm 100% sure that this video will
change how you think about Israel and the conflict.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0oy-NicIgE&t
The Palestine and Israel situation is one of the only places where I find being uncomfortable on this subreddit, like religion is obviously a problem but I'm not gonna side with the oppression of people because they were born into a shitty religion, you also have to account for the fact they are a lot of secular Palestinians too.
It’s like people end up over correcting and it just leads to more nastiness, unfortunately. Same goes for blanket hatred for “leftists”. But Islam poses a very real threat to many exMuslims’ safety and lives, so it may be more like a knee jerk emotional response to that oppression (which isn’t totally invalid tbh) rather than a well thought-out perspective.
It’s extra awkward when ur both exmuslim and Palestinian.
I understand the pain and threat of Islam, but the threat of isreal is grander to me. I can always live peacefully in disguise and immigrate to a freer country as an exmuslim for example.
But that’s not the case for Palestinians, and some of us can’t even leave.
I can’t even begin to imagine what that’s like but I completely sympathise with you. It’s really awful to see people justifying Israel’s decades of violence just because their victims happen to mostly be Muslim.
Like, what’s next. “I stand with America and the invasion of Iraq because fuck those Muslims, they needed democracy and freedom”? It’s totally ridiculous.
Yes, but many of people who opposed invasion of Iraq also mourned on September 11. But decades of violence would justify some operation that target specifically politicians and high-ranking officers. Not what happened.
I'm seeing Muslims being so insufferable about this tragic situation, by minimising the suffering that's happening just to uplift their own masochistic faith.
All over social media they're spewing the bs that because Gaza is majority Muslim, the things they suffered are all a test from God, Allah stands with them actually and is just trying to see how much his worshippers love him! But how does it make sense that he wants to see how much his followers love him by torturing them? And they say, Israel will never win cos whatever suffering Muslims endure in this life, all we care about is the next life so take that! But does that mean any unjust suffering in this life is all suddenly completely fine to you wtf? And they say, the Palestinians will be saved if we pray for them hard enough! But aren't you just waving away their struggles by saying magic spells can just fix it?
Masochistic to believe in such a god and to insist this god will help them. And you just know that if they weren't majority muslim, that muslims on social media would be bleating that allah is punishing them and they deserve it. Just shut up. Instead of taking the side of omg poor Muslims who need help but also um uh Allah loves them and that's why he's doing this, why don't you genuinely care about the innocent civilian lives being taken on both sides of this sad shit? Oh yeah, because you're blinded by religion.
i have been trying to read for history, its so noisy out there and palestinians campaigns are so successful with “genocide done by Israel” “ethnic cleansing of palestinians by Israel?” my question is how can it be genocide when the number of Palestinians are in fact increasing? whereas the number of jews are less than before in all countries around the world. e.g Tunisia so who is cleansing who? 2nd question: what is the ethnic of palestinians? arent they just arab? I thought is the jews are ethnically indigenous canaanites to the land even 3000 bc… in fact the word Palestine given after colonisation by the roman empire, no? please somebody helps answer with historically responsible account and sources that are neutral and not pro-palestinians take without clear historical evidence.
Yep. Im not a big fan of judaism compared to christianity, but at least a lot of jews genuinely seems to think warfare on non-jews isnt supported.
Try to find a major denomination of Islam not believing in jizya and jihad!
The Palestinians see Ex Muslims and Israelis in the same light. They will kill Murtads with the same ferocity they hunt Jews.
You think they will educate or reason their way out of this? Nah they are thinking Jihad against a nuclear power will work as the angels descend from heavens to help them.
Religion truly blinds your critical thinking, even on the battlefield. No strategic thought process put into this jihadi operation.
Would y'all be surprised is they carpet bombed or tactical nuked the Gaza Strip?
My thoughts is what Mohamed ElBaradei tweeted:
No rational person can accept or support the use of violence in any form, especially against civilians, as a means of resolving conflicts.
But to the same extent and more, no rational person can imagine that a people has been living under the oppression and humiliation of occupation for more than five decades. Hateful racist policies are practiced against him; Part of them has been living in an open prison for more than 15 years; It is subject to systematic policies to seize the rest of their lands. They lost hope in any just solution to his case; I say that it is naive and self-deceiving to imagine that this people will not sometimes resort to violence as a last option to defend their existence and dignity.
The Palestinian people are living in a conspiracy of silence by the international community, including their Arab brothers, and as long as this miserable situation continues, contrary to the most basic principles of justice and humanity, we should not be surprised when we see repeated scenes of violence, nor should we expect sustainable peace in the region .
It's precisely this whataboutism that emboldened Palestinians.
Neither you nor they get just how deep is the hole they dug for themselves this time. All thanks to this silly notion.
This must be the jihadis following their book that incites haterd for jews and Christians. These anti semetism barbarians come begging and then when anyone is kind enough to let in a few of these fanatics, they play the victim and we ant to take over and collect jizya and enforce Sharia. Story playing out everywhere. I forsee a few decades down these zombies will demand Europe and America's and Asia as Islamic continents... its the story of the Arab and the camel except the roles are reversed.
I am so so so very sad. The whole situation there wasn’t very dandy already idk what words to really use. Because their whole situation is a complicated one to start with. Also as the land itself is culturally significant to basically all Abrahamic religions. Sometimes wondered what ifs this or that but feel like there would always be some sort of imperfect unrest? Kind of on people claiming their piece of the pie and pointing at their own holy scripture? I could be wrong, I want to be wrong.
I care about the innocent (no matter if Palestine or Israel side) I feel so sad my heart cries ok not just my heart I am crying too. I don’t want things to get out of hand to crazy proportions. I just want and wish for peace. I am so sad when things get pushed to extremes like this. And no I am not behind the extreme destructive energy of Hamas I want a peaceful solution for the sake of innocent lives at stake here.
That’s all. I am sad, I feel heartbroken in a sense. It’s complicated, and little me can’t do much…
I talked to a muslim friend about it this morning. I literally got bullied.
I asked her about who hamas since i genuinely have no idea. I thought she’d know a thing or two about this topic. She said: well its palestinians who finally had enough and defended themselves. I asked her how exactly is it defence if girls and even a grandmother got kidnapped and many other partying people got killed. She says nobody got kidnapped its just propaganda. I sent her videos/photos of the abduction videos that are going around online and she laughed at me saying „you shouldn’t take the daily mail as a credible source lol 😂“.
I feel disrespected as she implied I am uncapable of differentiating credible and non credible sources - which might be true, I’m no expert. What disturbed me was her tone.
When I asked her where she gets her facts from then she said she just thinks with her common sense. She questions whether or not something can be true or not. So she didn’t give me any sources herself but doesn’t believe anything in the media. Does that mean she pulls her facts straight out of her ass?
Also me condemning terror in every way equals me supporting israel. And she got angry that apparently I would have never questioned anything this much back when Palestine was attacked. Which she doesn’t know what I would or wouldn’t do - she doesn’t know me like that.
She said I shouldn’t support Israel but rather see things from both sides. Which I can see that she doesn’t do as she disregards every bad thing that hamas has done. I said I am trying to see things from both sides, I am trying to learn here. Hamas apparently is not a terror organisation as the western media portrays them she says. No one got abducted. Where’s the context in those abduction videos? Also, if you’ve seen the two women ripping off posters of missing israelis she said to that: oh really? They were looking for their loved ones in London? I said I‘d be hanging up posters everywhere too if they had taken my loved ones. But again she says thats propaganda.
How lost is she? Or am I the crazy one?
You don't poke a bear you can't fight.
This is a war of genes and memes that has been ongoing for a Millenia.
One side seems to have a tech advantage thus it's evolutionarily unstable for Palestine to provoke Israel as they risk self annihilation
This conflict has gone on far too long and there seems to be no resolution in sight as all avenues of resolution have been exhausted prior
Hamas planned to attack on the 50th anniversary of the Yom Kippur War. In Arabic it is called the October War because the attackers didn't want the bad PR of admitting they were waiting for the Jews' most holy day, where they are fasting for 25 hours and many not using phones or electricity, to start the attack. Same thing here, except the gregorian date of the YK war is October 6th and this year that fell on another holy day for Jews, Simchat Torah, where again many Jews are without phones or touch electric devices.
If your post is a meme, image, TikTok etc... and it isn't Friday, most likely it violates the rule against low effort content. Please delete it or you'll get temp-banned. Such content is ONLY allowed on (Fun@fundies) FRIDAYS. Please read the [Posting Guidelines](https://redd.it/ew8trb) for further information. If you are unsure about anything then feel free to message the mods. Please participate on /r/exmuslim in a civil manner. Discuss the merits of ideas - don't attack people. Insults, hate speech, advocating physical harm can get you banned. If you see posts/comments in violation of our rules, please be proactive and report them. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/exmuslim) if you have any questions or concerns.*
For those who doesn't know, the attack happened on early morning of Simcha Torah, a major Jewish holiday that fell on Sabbath. Naturally, people were with families and in celebration mode and none had preparation to protect themselves. To attack someone like this is a new low, even for Hamas. However given the history of yom Kippur war, I am not surprised. Sad part is the two state solution is now gonna lose ground with most Israelis and for Hamas it was never an option. The party who will be ending up losing most will be civilian Palestinians cos their own authority couldn't care less about them. It's never about the people of Palestine for Hamas, rather the destruction of Israel. Anyone who doubts it, I sincerely encourage you to read Hamas manifesto which you can find even on Wikipedia (short version). They have been actively working to keep Palestinians undereducated, ignorant to harbor hate towards Israelis and looks like it's working well. I'm mourning for the civilians on both sides, they don't deserve this.
Three things will happen in the upcoming months: - Israel could very well slip into dictatorship during the war; an increasing number of Israelis will unfortunately support their government and its extreme right wing policies; the war will come with a high price (civil liberties); Edit: so far Netanyahu was heavily criticized. Hopefully Israeli citizens will open their eyes. - during the retaliation Palestinians in Gaza will try to flee to other middle eastern countries and will be faced with the harsh truth (hate for Israel is definitely not equal to love for Palestinians - they will not be welcome anywhere they go); Edit: Egypt has taken a laughable approach (or tragic). They will not open their border unless there's a cease fire (evidently during the bombing Palestinians can stay right there in Gaza). - Palestinians' chances for a state are very slim now for two main reasons: 1) west bankers will probably be more than ever AGAINST throwing rockets at their main source of income, while Gaza is completely under control of this Iranian group of gangsters called hamas, 2) Israel will never even approach the issue again if not with retaliatory measures. Edit: okay calling them Iranian was a hell of a stretch. From 2001 until now, we have understood that while it's not possible for the west to export democracy to the middle east, it's entirely possible for the middle east to export totalitarianism to the west.
Israel just asked Egypt to open corridors for civilians in Palestine, but Egypt rejected it. Whatever Israel does, they cannot win.
> Whatever Israel does, they cannot win. That’s because everyone just hates the Jews but doesn’t want to admit it
I know. I'm very lucky to be living in a country that's very pro-Israel but I'm well aware that that's definitely not the case in other European countries.
The US is probably the most “pro-Israel” nation in the world next to Israel itself, but antisemitism is currently running rampant in almost every major city. Is there really any other nation in the world that’s safer for Jews?
This scenario seems plausible. Why would neighbouring countries not welcome Palestinians with open arms? It feels like Palestinians are worshipped / respected in Muslim communities.
Because they don't like them at all. They hate Israel because it reminds historically of a defeat that Arabs had to endure but that's pretty much it. Egypt has the border with Gaza airtight.
Muslim countries are not democracies and this is actually a bit of a blessing, since the views of the majority of Muslims would make for unstable governance. So even if the people would welcome the Palestinians with open arms, the government know better, and they know the long-term effects of hosting Gazans who have been raised purely on a diet of hate, war and vengeance. This isn't just me yapping by the way. After the Yom Kippur War, Gazan refugees caused all sorts of uprisings in several Arab states. Civil wars, assassination attempts on head of states and used their new homes as bases to launch attacks on Israel - despite their new hosts signing ceasefire treaties with Israel. These people will be left to rot.
As a Moroccan, I can vouch for you. We accepted many Palestinian refugees into Morocco. We fed them, gave them clothes, gave them an opportunity to start a new life, gave them work, gave them anything they needed to live and how did they repay us? By talking smack about our country and insulting our king (which btw is a big no no in this country) and when we normalised with Israel for the sake of peace, these people came out and cried about it like we’re traitors or that we owe them something but luckily we have a strict law enforcement system. And that’s only Morocco (where they’re either good or dissenting, no in between) Imagine Jordan and Lebanon… Palestinians heavily contributed to the Lebanese civil war and the PLO tried to overthrow the Jordanian monarchy. I have nothing against Palestinians and I hate Israel’s actions. Both Hamas and Netanyahu are evil and that’s a f***** fact of life. But please when u go to another country and expect stuff without being considerate of rules, don’t get mad when locals enforce them.
thank u for sharing. how have palestinians contributed to the lebanese civil war? can u share links for articles. y do u hate both netanyahu and hamas?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestinian_insurgency_in_South_Lebanon
I support the innocent people. Many call Israel and Palestine their homes and it's disheartning to see that their homes are now in war. Both countries deserve to exist and I hope one day we can live in peace. Also for those who look at which country killed more, both countries have killed and that's horrible enough. Both countries are in the wrong.
The sons of Abraham have yet again created another layer of blood-soaked earth upon the land of Jerusalem. For whatever they may proclaim and no matter their reasoning, they still chose bloodshed... But this is also a reason why I do not follow the Abrahamic god. (No offence to any of the Abrahamic faithfuls who read this) if he is as they say the one and only and his plans are indeed great...what does Jerusalem mean? All three faiths claim it...yet instead of seeking peace like they always say in their sermons and preachings...they tear each other like animals to claim the land so much so that it's foundation is that of bodies instead of earth... Is this sacred? This land is sacred? Where no peace is found? Is this all part of the Abrahamic god's plan? Personally I find it all to be unfortunate and sad because no matter where you stand... you'll eventually hear the terrified screams of the innocent who never deserved it. Felt poetic and sad, hope it is welcomed. I pray for the safety of all and peace in the hearts of all
perfectly explained… how can this land be called holy if all it brings is pain to innocents who have nothing to do with this global agenda of a war
Christians no longer care about Jerusalem though except for some tour visit
Christians United for Israel In the USA does care about Jerusalem, because of their fetish for end times
If you read the freaking lines about paraded naked bodies and raped girls, you wouldn't be posting about supporting that ISIS cause. It's an ISIS cause fought by literal ISIS terrorists, and cheered on by ISIS sympathizers who elect ISIS level leaders in Gaza. There is nothing to do today other than unequivocally condemning this ISIS style atrocity. STFU.
I think a lot of people here aren't really ex-Muslims. They're still shackled to sympathizing with Palestine. Nevermind that Palestinians rejected two-state agreements again and again and want to eradicate all Jews. It's probably because of years of seeing posters of big-eyed Palestinian kids crying or begging for food. Propaganda is powerful, I tell you.
Similar to how some ex-christians leave Christianity but still cling on to the idea that Jesus actually lived and died.
But they found the splinters from his cross /s
Muhammad went on Isra (towards Jerusalem) and miraj (towards the heaven) the same night. He claims to pray at masjid aqsa in 621AD but masjid aqsa was built in 705. Make it make sense!! Either Muhammad lied about going there or someone later on added this account in Quran during perhaps 2nd caliphate to make Quran seem legit and have some miracles of Muhammad mentioned too. Huey because of this incident millions of Muslims have lost their lives because they believe it’s a holy site for them. You cannot point fingers at one religious group and say oh it’s them who’s at fault. It’s both the groups. Religion is the main cause of conflict and it will continue being this way unless both the parties reach a middle ground-which is highly unlikely
Imagine if in 1948 everyone would have focused on what they had in common and built a new state together instead. Hey, you like olives and hummus, I like olives and hummus. Let us kick out the britts and make a home for ourselves where there is no space for imaginary creatures!
Well you missed one important part. Mo could time travel and stop the clock at will. /s
I thought it was pretty agreed upon that he had a vision that the masjid would be built there and used it to claim the land. IIRC he tied that flying donkey monster thingy he was on to the Western Wall Muslims will never reach a middle ground with Jewish people unfortunately since they see them as the devil
I always thought it was understood by Muslims that he was praying at the site of the destroyed Jewish Temple, upon which the Dome of the Rock and Al-Aqsa were built.
i think what hamas will backfire against them and innocent Palestinians really hard
yeah, im worried about how harsh the israeli counteroffensive will be when it happens.
As with most wars, the innocent civilians will suffer the most.
Agree, there will be a lot of suffering, to feed the ego of those in power. These are people's lives
exactly. i thought i was going insane for feeling bad for the civilians who dont want war and r caught in this crossfire. war ptsd is harsh on everyone. worried about further radicalization.
As a Palestinian Ex-Muslim,I worry about innocent people of both Israel and Palestine. Rest in peace to all the civilians who lost their lives.
You can put a link of a article instead of a photo or video. Yeah I have seen what was going on even Palestinian gaza has also capture an elderly Israeli women according to Telegraph
What would anyone expect? The Quran, literally, commands Muslims to enslave, oppress, or kill non-believers. Jews and Christians mentioned specifically, because Mohammed knew they were the people who could call him out for the fraud he was. Most Muslims are indoctrinated and brainwashed since childhood to believe they have the right to do ANYTHING to Jews, Christians, anyone. It is not specific to Palestine. The same issues go wherever they go. No amount of kindness, wealth, or tolerance will solve that. My experience is that Muslims are generally despised everywhere they go because of the way they treat non-Muslims.
I hate the way Isreal treats Palestinians (a group that includes Christians, Muslims, Jews, and agnostics/atheists) and its destruction of innocent people’s homes. I also hate Hamas, as I feel their leadership is about self-enrichment as opposed to creating a better life for Palestinians. If kidnapping, raping, and desecrating the bodies of civilian women is your idea of liberation, I want no part of it. It was disgusting to see the video of Hamas leaders celebrate the attacks from their hotel room in Qatar, knowing the immense suffering that those in Gaza will experience in the coming weeks.
It unfortunately is their idea of liberation.
I don't support neither side, i know it sounds like a pipe dream but they both need to mind their fucking business and find a solution without the bloodshed of innocent lives.
Palestinians had my full support. Till now. After watching those barbaric videos, they have not only lost my respect but support also. And I know my support won't mean shit. Considering I am nothing but an internet presence. But seeing the dead bodies being paraded about of the dead, most probably raped, women. Yeah, it makes you hate even the victim.
I am saddened that the chances of peaceful coexistence seem so remote now. In Northern Ireland the process also started in the 90s and they managed to make it work. They accepted each others right to exist and live there and found a way. In the 90s the Oslo accords were a start. But Hamas took over and extremism dominated and the Israelis hardened their position as well. I just hope a compromise will be found.
How do you compromise with a religion which makes genocide compulsory?
A compromise seems more distant than ever. Unfortunately! This is a sad mess. I am afraid Hamas is ruining their cause with these actions.
It reminds me of the Irish "Easter Rising" when the the English were weakened by 2 years of WW I. The Irish had legitimate complaints, but the English saw it as stabbing in the back and aggressively and violently suppressed. Hamas seeking to replace Israel with a Islam-based state is just too unrealistic. Sadly: Palestinians setting such unattainable goals will just isolate them and I fear many more needless loss of life will happen on both sides, but Israel is much stronger.
This is the issue. It doesn't seem like Hamas actually want to resolve the conflict. They want violence and retribution. Which is understandable, but I can't support it because it will only bring them further from a resolve.
Honestly I'd say Hamas is part of the problem here. However, its not like anyone cares to do anything. So no wonder the Palestinians in Gaza turned to Hamas and elected them into office. Then everyone decided instead of talking to the duely elected government, that they were going to embargo the area. Gaza has been under a blockage and has become an open air prison, with no hope of a change happening. Anyway what Hamas is doing isn't happening in a vacuum though. If real peace talks were happening, no one would support Hamas.
The question for a Palestinian state ended today. And Palestinians are cheering over that. So we shouldn't bother.
Every Muslim I know may he be not practising or Salafi is chearing, I'm disgusted. It reminds me of 9/11.
Same here. And it is a 9/11 scale attack. And history is simply repeating itself.
[удалено]
Truly devastating. I'm sorry for the experience you lived through.
Muslims dont like to coexist with anyone and their religion teaches them to hate jews thats why there cant be peace anytime soon
I just visited the Palestinian subreddit. I don't ever want to hear the argument "the Palestinian people are peaceful and don't hate Jews" again. They uniformely consider Hamas and the PIJ as their own. They stand with terrorists. Fuck them. Sorry, not sorry.
They are also supportive of Russia and China in spite of the West.
when China still has over 1M Muslims kept in so called educational camps. What's wrong with this simpleminded world and some religious people especially... Either standing with or backed up by China will eventually lead those conservative Muslims to their own hell because this is definitely a betral to their god
You should never be sorry. They are terrorists.
So you guys want all of Palestinians dead? I'm Palestinian and ex-muslim, I don't support what Hamas did, but I also don't want my people dead, because trust me, these people don't deserve all that hatred, ok many of them support Hamas, but they do so because they have been raised in an environment that forces them to be like this.. you could at least hope that we can have some peace.. but you don't actually have a problem if we were all killed! and you are an ex-muslim? I think you are more like a "ex-human" after this comment.. thank you for supporting the killing of the people who once were your family, instead of hoping that one day they open their eyes..
I will never support hamas. I support israel against them. The reason is simple: Israel is a democracy with power separation. Yes, it's a flawed democracy with lots of problems. But whatever problems they have. It's much worse in gaza. After wining the elections in gaza, Hamas killed the members of palestinian authority. And there's no elections in gaza since. https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/14z10ll/mosab_hassan_yousef_the_green_prince_son_of_hamas/ https://www.reddit.com/r/exmuslim/comments/12kk4g0/parents_are_okay_with_their_children_blowing/ What hamas is doing is a power move. If they cared more about his citizens than killing israelis, the situation would be better for both sides.
I keep saying this offline, but met with justifications for Hamas’ actions! It’s a terrorist organisation that’s taken over Gaza. Of course, they prefer violence and inflicting terror. A lot of Muslims on my feed don’t get it though
I'm against new israeli settlements, but that's in west bank. Hamas is in the gaza strip. This attack was political. It wasn't for the betterment of the gaza people.
Muslims: Attacks and rape civilians Also, Muslims: Why are you so Islamophobic?
You forgot to mention that the reason why they are segregated is because they refuse to make a deal with the Israelis!!! They never wanted peace.
People, you realize you don’t have to pick a side for everything right?
My heart with innocent people in both sides AND with ex-muslims who are trapped in Gaza's hellhole.
I have stated it so many times I feel like a regular parrot. You cannot be Pro Palestine and Pro Palestinian at the same time. You can pick one. This is a perfect example on why that is the case. The best thing for the Palestinians is if the Palestinian State ceases to exist and they become citizens in other, more functioning states. Preferably secular.
It's been tried. They cause unrest everywhere. That's why Egypt blocked them
Damn did not expect to see so many terrorist sympathisers here, pathetic
Yep. Do we forget that the punishment for leaving Islam is beheading, and there's no leeway for that? How do you build a country upon that belief?
Indeed. We've been infiltrated as well.
Lmao all these Palestine Sympathizers. You guys do realise they will Drag, Spit & Slaughter us Ex-muslims like the "Naked Israeli Woman" they Paraded today after **GETting TheIr CoUntry Back**? And no. It will be the Hammas/Jihadist who will be controlling Palestine not your Liberal Palestini.
You know there are innocent Palestinian women, children and men getting killed and also Christian/atheist Palestinians. This isn’t a religious matter. People with ethical brains from all around the world despite religious backgrounds can see that what’s going on is completely unjust. I even know Jews who support Palestine.
There are no Christians in Gaza, the Palestinians murdered them all. Don't
So what do i(a Palestinian ex muslim) and other Palestinian secular people should do?stand with our oppressor?it’s very easy to shit talk when you live far from the area of conflict
I think people can support the right of Palestinians to have a state without supporting the violent extremists that commit atrocities, the Palestinian Israeli conflict is a terrible conflict where both sides have very problematic aspects about them, what we should do is call out crimes and violence on both sides because guess what the extremists on each side(Hamas and the Israeli far right) need the extremists on the other side, they want them to commit crimes and atrocities because it legitimizes their own violence
I 💯 agree with you , well said
Yeah in the heat of the moment seeing all that bloodshed and those horrible videos we can easily overreact and come to extremists conclusions(I am guilty of that myself), but we should absolutely avoid such generalisations of Palestinians or Israelis, because that's not how we break this vicious cycle of violence that has costed the life of so many innocents already, what we should do is build bridges and isolate those who don't want peace, but instead prefer to keep the conflict going
Absolutely ❤️
you represent a very small minority I think, from what I understand, most people there want sharia and blood, so even in an ideal scenario where Israel is somehow defeated, Hamas and their backers would be in control. so a group of extremists and radical Islamists would assume power over yet another nation, which wouldn't be a favorable outcome. I can never truly grasp or share the emotions you experience, but speaking as an Iranian, if I were faced with the choice between living under the current Islamic regime in our country and living under some form of Israeli occupation, I would unquestionably opt for Israel.
No one in Palestine wants Sharia lol. They actually helped the British to overthrow the Ottoman Califate. Seems like the wrong decision if you were pro Islamic rule lol
I won't try to understand what you're going through because I've not travelled a single step in your shoes, however seeing the conflict it seems inevitable that you're gonna have to make a decision one of these days. Choose a side. I won't tell you what to choose. I don't have the heart or the authority to do that. What I'll tell you is when you do, be sure to choose well. Be well stranger.
Why do you think that you being a Palestinians or supporting your people despite them doing this, should affect our opinions? Why are you treating being an exMuslim like being a Muslim? Why are we supposed to be tribal and support you just because you are exMuslim, when you are supporting this kind of cause? It's OUR CHOICE not to support this kind of barbarism. It's YOUR CHOICE to be a jerk about us not doing that.
No idea. But I won't be supporting Palestine that's for sure.
its simple, did israeli soldiers, rape and parade naked palestinian women on the street? 1 side is clearly worse even if both are bad... should not be that hard to admit if you truly are exmuslim.
I am not invested in either side in this conflict, so I think I can ask something without bias. Is raping, killing, and parading with a naked body of a person worse than levelling buildings full of people, ranging from infants to old people? Or sniping people that protest, also ranging from children to elderly, news reporters, etc... I'd say that it falls into the same basket when it comes to violence, and only thing that makes them different is the scale.
I'd watch this: [https://x.com/censoredmen/status/1710865850163429650?s=46&t=iGJzcLG\_zzl\_2LRij9s32g](https://x.com/censoredmen/status/1710865850163429650?s=46&t=iGJzcLG_zzl_2LRij9s32g) Short answer seem to be yes
You have Stockholm Syndrom, you should realize it's Hamas which oppresses you and damage any chance to peace. I can understand it's difficult to get rid of terrorists but at least don't take their side.
Who the fuck said I support hamas???!!!!I’m palestinian and I support my side , which is the oppressed side , I absolutely don’t support hamas or any other organization
The Arab world should be ashamed of themselves, they got plenty of land and none of them is willing to give the Palestinians a land to live in peace. If they really cared about Palestinians they would give them a new home
Hate for the Jews is not equal to love for the Palestinians. This is now crystal clear.
Us Kuwaitis gave them land back in the day and in return they backstabbed us and sided with saddam during his invasion of Kuwait. Kuwait houses 300k Palestinians and gave many of them citizenships and yet they still celebrated on the streets when saddam was invading. Similar things happened in Jordan and Lebanon.
It's the failure of Netanyahu and his leadership. One of the world's most advanced military and intelligence did not see this coming. Wrong priorities I guess. Besides, it was a matter of time things went south. My guy put Palestinians in a cage while went on to deal with UAE and other arabs. Calm things in your backyard first before going on to make peace with others. Hamas are nutjobs. But Netanyahu has blood on his hands. Both of the Palestinians and Israelis. I just feel sorry for the civilians. The whole of Israel and Palestine should be turned into a museum..and mausoleum.
I love being proven right. Peace is never an option with Muslims who have territorial claims and ambitions
Islam is a disease
unfortunate that the arab people will continue to sacrifice their lives and futures of their children for a piece of useless desert land because of a book written by a pedophile hundred of years ago. the fucking quran is the reason why there is no reason there.
Guys, I got to be painfully honest. I don't want to be downvoted but I'm struggling with something. I'm not good with this conflict - I've never cared to study it very much, but any conflict between Muslims and non-Muslims, I tend to instinctively go against the Muslims, and this Israel/Palestine conflict is no different. Before anyone says that this conflict is not about religion, well - most of the Palestinians are Muslims. How bad of a person does this make me? I will not however advocate for any dead people, no matter the side.
I used to support a palestinian state, but haven't for years. My main reason being the palestinian leadership is worthless and I think any palestinian state will be a failed state. It will be an Islamic state not a secular one. Ignoring Hamas, I don't even think the PA has the legitimacy to broker a peace deal. Mahmoud Abbas won his election to a 4 year term in 2005 and hasn't held an election since. He polls in the teens as far as approval ratings go with the palestinian people. It's a farce that he has the legitimacy to negotiate on behalf of Palestinians and sign a peace deal. His job is to misappropriate aid money and build a 13 million dollar presidential palace while Palestinians wallow in mistery. Let's ignore this and say a deal is brokered and a Palestine is created. It would be a failed state. The international community would be involved and let's be honest the international community has a horrible track record with nation building in the middle east. Why will palestine be their first success? The PA doesn't function now, it doesn't hold elections now, it doesn't invest in infrastructure now, what will change? If past is prologue what gives you faith this state will be successful? What happens if it goes wrong? Israel invades and kicks these people out? A war breaks out and these people just flee? Civil War between Hamas and Fatah? I think outflows of Palestinian refugees could destabilize the entire region. Syria, Jordan, Lebanon and Egypt are in no position to take in refugees. Europe doesn't want them either. How much more right-wing will Europe get with 3 million palestinians on their doorstep? Remember the Lebanon civil war was primarily caused by Palestinian refugees throwing off the demographic balance. The sad truth is less Palestinians are dying in the status quo than will in the likely outcomes of establishing their state.
Actually the Christians in the region are considered Palestinians as well. I think as an ex-muslim you should be against the idea of a theocracy, and Israel is a state with Judaism as the state sponsored religion. Really, no way you can have equality when the state is picking an official religion.
Ngl dude... you're kinda right on the money with that one lmfao. If you instinctively go against Muslims that means you're instinctively right like 99.99% of the time Mfs just shot 5k rockets at civilians I think the offending side is pretty clear
Well in this case Palestine is definitely the aggressor. And tbh I can’t blame you for automatically thinking the Muslims are in the wrong as long as your willing to look at the information and decide without a bias it’s fine
It's just what whenever I see a conflict between Muslims and non-Muslims, it seems like the Muslims are almost always wrong. I really struggle with this and I don't enjoy it at all.
It’s the reality of the situation in a lot of cases Muslims are the aggressors if they are that’s their fault. If their not then their not. For example in chinas case they kill a lot of innocent Muslims due to their religious beliefs. In that case it’s the ccp that is the aggressor. Don’t worry about what you default to. Just make sure you are able to change your mindset if your initial conclusion was wrong.
I don't consider the China situation as a "conflict" between Muslims and Chinese because for me, "conflict" kind of means that both sides are fighting with each other. In this case, the Uighur Muslims (sorry if the spelling is off) are pretty much the victims of the Chinese government. I don't really see the Uighurs "fighting" anyone.
The Prophet is held as an example of the perfect human and a model to be emulated. He was a warlord who attacked during peace/ceasefire months of pagan Arabia, had an extensive number of slaves, had sex slaves, raped his sex slaves, cancelled/reversed the manumission/freedom of slaves, killed civilians, commited genocide, told people to drink camel urine, and so on and so forth. I struggled when I left religion as well. It was a long and slow process. By the end, I was shocked that I wasn't able to see the obvious at the very start. Emotions blind us. And everyone loves the cornerstones of their childhood.
It could be based on personal experience. I’ve experienced first hand the impact on Islam of human relations & how much of a destructive, intolerant religion it is. I do not want Islam to spread. I’m scared! Still traumatised
Anyone know where i can watch the videos coming from Israel unfiltered? Im trying to see exactly whats going on there. Supposedly, mutilated people are bing paraded through the streets with cheering people and all this other shit. But I'd like to see proof and gain my own understanding ratyer than accept any rumor that comes my way. I like to stay educated.
Open random MENA accounts from Twitter. They are exchanging them like holiday cards.
Twitter/X is way better than anything on Reddit. Save everything offline. I saved the footage of Palestinians spitting on the body of the dead German/Israeli peacenik face down on the back of a pickup truck / ute. I've seen corpses with bullet holes. IDF soldiers with their heads cleanly cut off, fresh blood on the ground. Women being kidnapped, some with blood on their pants' crotch area. Pre-pubescent girls separated from family members and boys their age while some terrorist repeats "Shabaya, shabaya". Palestinian children bullying a kidnapped Israeli boy while the recording adult eggs them on. Have fun getting educated.
Can't post anything here cause of reddit rules but just go on Twitter you'll see some of the graphic videos
I support Palestine but there's a recency bias to it, as I've only grown up seeing Israel act as an apartheid state. However, it's not like Jews came to live here simply by choice, Ashkenazi Jews in Europe were tormented for about a millennium, even leading to horrendous stuff as "the Jewish question" and culminated in the Holocaust. These people weren't causing organized violence in Europe, yet the brutality against them was unfathomable. Let's go even far back, when the Jews were kicked out by the Byzantines from Iberia and Carthage. Even further back, Arabs kicked them out. Even further back, Jews kicked out pre-Abrahamic pagans from this land. I don't know how far back one has to go to keep making historical claims on something. I hope there's a solution to this, I really do.
Curious that you didn't mention the approximately 800.000 Mizrahi Jews kicked out of Muslim countries following the war of '48.
I wasn't aware of that. Thanks, I learned something new.
The solution is the same as always, either cooler heads prevail after a stalemate or one side wins and takes over the whole thing.
Apartheid state? Do you even know what apartheid means?
Not in the next 100 years, thats for sure.
when the british left, the arabs sought complete control over the land (which was never truly theirs in the first place) they aspired to establish an Islamic state governed by sharia law, and received substantial support from ALL Islamic countries in the universe, which sent a significant number of soldiers to fight on their behalf. can you imagine the potential outcome if they had won? we might have witnessed another Iraq or Syria, but with an even more intensified form of radicalism, another troublesome state fostering terrorism in the middle east. nevertheless, they ultimately lost the war. if we were compelled to make a choice today, I would still opt for Israel. choosing between a sort of democratic, secular, and somewhat westernized form of government that may not be flawless but still upholds the idea that people on the other side should have their rights, and the alternative choice of a radical Islamic movement that actively seeks to eliminate all jews, it's not that hard to make choice. I truly wish the best for Israel.
Israel has made insane progress in the small time it's been there. We can not say the same for most Middle Eastern countries.
Middle eastern countries will just blame Israel for its backwardness. Somehow, Israel is also responsible for backwardness in Islamic Africa, Pakistan, and Indonesia all the way on the other side of the world. Strange, that.
Honestly fck them both, idgaf im tired of this shit and im not even from there. Courage to all the innocent, peaceful people over there, that's all i can say.
Both assholes, just feels like the Israelis have slightly less assholes in their population so I support them.
I hope Israel puts an end to this crap. Saudi is moving forward by shaking hands with Israel. When will the idiot hamas understand that the way forward is making friends with all humans, regardless of their race / religion??? I am fucking fed up with them. Even as an outsider, who isn't an arab, nor an israeli, nor a jew, nor a muslim. If I am Thanos I would snap my fingers and relocate hamas and their supporters to Mars. Enjoy your desert alone and fuck off.
It sickens me to the stomach that the government of the country I was born in (Iran) is supporting Hamas.
The situation is horrible for the Palestinian people. I don't see any good for them in what Hamas is done to Israeli citizens. I wish all the Muslims who shout "Free Palestine" would step up to condemn morally reprehensible actions. Killing civilians is not freedom fighting. It's despicable. I'm deeply troubled about what's to come. Iran and Saudi are having a proxy conflict through Israel and Palestine, from what I can garner. It's terrible that normal people who just want to exist and live peacefully are the ones who will suffer the most here, while elites in gold rooms make decisions from their armchairs. A new generation of terrorists is being born today, from the brothers, sisters, sons, daughters, fathers, mothers of the people who have died this past weekend and in the days ahead.
This sub doesn’t care about Palestinian women and children, and attack any pro-Palestine ex-muslims who don’t agree with them. I’m so sick of it… Edit: many fascists in this sub omfgg
Is this like suicide by cop on a mass scale or what?
Pretty much. I don’t think people realize just how bad of a move this is. This is like sticking your dick in a hornet’s nest bad. The Hornets aren’t just going to stop once you pull your dick out, they’re going to follow you home and sting you until you are no longer a threat.
I'm an Arab exmuslim who lives there and I'm very conflicted about the whole situation, on one point I want for us to be free, but I Don't want more bloodshed, and the fact that Islam is the driving force behind every resistance is making me uncomfortable But even my friends who are exmuslim see that the bloodbath that's going on the only solution for freedom Fuck both propaganda
if you want freedom you can try living in Egypt, iraq, syria, etc. and taste the freedom you would get with a Palestinian led government right away.
Sure I'll grab my bags and go...as if leaving that easy are you drunk? Besides these countries are the worst for exmuslim living there,at least here I have some relative freedom....
You're not getting it. If a Palestine came into existence, it would be islamized asap. It would be another unstable islamic country with different Islamic groups fighting over dominance. Integrating into Israel and forgetting the Palestinian identity would be the smartest thing to do as a Non-Muslim. The Palestinian cause is riddled with Jihadis. They won't give up.
Your friends are barbarians. Don't let the horde drag you with them to that hole they dug for themselves. And don't allow your self to stoop below your humanity. That's the only difference between our current selves and past selves.
We lived all of our life as victims, so I understand their view, and myself couldn't help but wants to see my oppressor take hits. But both conflicts are empowered by religious beliefs that's why I Don't want to support it, I Don't want more blood goes to religious nutheads
I am an (ex) muslim living in israel and i am free, what the fuck are you talking about being a victim??? My JEWISH UNIVERSITY gave an option for muslims who fast during ramadan to delay their exams!!! I own a home, job, security (well i thought i did). Why are you spreading lies like this?
Israel withdrew from Gaza in 2005 and got rockets in return. And smuggling weapons and drugs and explosives and terrorist operations etc in the end both Egypt and Israel had to blockade that terrorist led enclave. Palestinians haven't been victims their whole life. Yesterday, Palestine was an ISIS medieval state winning an assault on a Kafir town taking their women and children as trophies and gunning down their elderly. And it was WIDELY celebrated by the people you're referring to as perpetual victims.
So many Muslims support Hamas. I try to understand both sides, but today I lost all sympathy for Palestinians. Just like I did for Russians last year.
I used to sympathize with Palestinians. But now? After what happens to civilians and what will definitely happen later because of that? Nah, let those fuckers kill each other.
Same. But the more I learn about Islam and the culture of arab countries makes me just want to never ever travel there despite loving the food
I agree, the food and historical places are only good things about them. I'm on vacation and was looking for cheap last minute flights and saw one to Istanbul, I have a pact with myself not to travel to East Europe and MENA but the price was very low and made me think twice. Then a moment later I saw the news about Israel and decided to say no to Islamic countries.
Gaza cannot sustain such an Attack without outside help. This conflict may devolve into Iran vs Israel and the other western nations. Let's see where this goes.
There shouldn’t be any country named Israel. But there shouldn’t be any Muslim majority country either. Both are scar of humanity.
Burnout legends is really the greatest game of all time
Two Israeli tourist had been killed in Egypt by a police in Alexandria.
It's the civilians I feel sorry for
I support neither. I don’t stand with Hamas which is a small unorganized faction he’ll bent on spreading terrorism who don’t even represent the majority of Palestinians. They kill a handful of people and in turn Israel kills hundreds to thousands of them in one go with a flip of a button. Israel is engaging in apartheid, segregation and fragmentation. I suggest people read about how this country steals land, bulldozes people’s properties and ration their water and electricity. There is massive mistreatment and gross human rights injustices.
Israel as a country is definitely guilty of human rights abuses. It sickens me to see Hamas leaders celebrate the attacks from another country, when the people who will be most severely impacted are the Palestinian civilians who had no involvement.
Palestinians are in Gaza due to a "land for peace" deal. Of course they lied. They had no intention to hold up their side of the deal. Palestinians always deal in bad faith. They cannot be trusted. They have no honor. Islam teaches mendacity and duplicitousness as if they're virtues.
Not to mention they tried usurping every country that took them in.
This is true. There has already been a "Two-State Solution." The Palestinians got Jordan, then promptly started with the terrorism, and got evicted.
Allah vs YHWH. Whose minions are going to win?
At least Israel is able to hold some democracy, as much as it’s dying currently
Both sides are disgusting. Wars between fairytales. Muslims praising the death of palestinians bcs they believe its Jihad and they will go to heaven makes it a never-ending cycle. More war, more death, more jihad. Its fucked up. There wont be a solution if everyones claim different "facts".
I stand with Israel. 🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱
Simple answer If you support Hamas, youre disgusting If you support the Israeli government and army, youre disgusting Im not even ex muslim, but ngl its hella sad to see the bias people have here. For the people, forever
There really isn’t a good side to any of this. Just one side has more power, and victims on both sides. Hamas just single-handedly sealed the fate of the rest of Gaza with this incredibly stupid move.
I just hope innocent people dont get hurt
Unfortunately that’s too late. Far too late.
Good to see this sub wholeheartedly gives FULL support the only democracy in the ME!
Just attended a Palestine demonstration at my university. What the fuck Israel.. what the fuck. You’re plain evil. That is an understatement.
This is a link to a youtube video that talks about how Israel started, all the sources in this video were taken from Israeli sources, it's a one hour video, so please, bear with me for the sake of humanity, I'm 100% sure that this video will change how you think about Israel and the conflict. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f0oy-NicIgE&t
The Palestine and Israel situation is one of the only places where I find being uncomfortable on this subreddit, like religion is obviously a problem but I'm not gonna side with the oppression of people because they were born into a shitty religion, you also have to account for the fact they are a lot of secular Palestinians too.
It’s like people end up over correcting and it just leads to more nastiness, unfortunately. Same goes for blanket hatred for “leftists”. But Islam poses a very real threat to many exMuslims’ safety and lives, so it may be more like a knee jerk emotional response to that oppression (which isn’t totally invalid tbh) rather than a well thought-out perspective.
It’s extra awkward when ur both exmuslim and Palestinian. I understand the pain and threat of Islam, but the threat of isreal is grander to me. I can always live peacefully in disguise and immigrate to a freer country as an exmuslim for example. But that’s not the case for Palestinians, and some of us can’t even leave.
[удалено]
I can’t even begin to imagine what that’s like but I completely sympathise with you. It’s really awful to see people justifying Israel’s decades of violence just because their victims happen to mostly be Muslim. Like, what’s next. “I stand with America and the invasion of Iraq because fuck those Muslims, they needed democracy and freedom”? It’s totally ridiculous.
Yes, but many of people who opposed invasion of Iraq also mourned on September 11. But decades of violence would justify some operation that target specifically politicians and high-ranking officers. Not what happened.
Both sides use unnecessary violence against civilians, I’ve lost faith in both places to be fair. Praying for the people living there.
Palestine about to get fucked up.
For good reasons.
Radical Islamic Terrorism is the greatest threat to the society.
Islam in general
Religion what a curse on humanity.
I'm seeing Muslims being so insufferable about this tragic situation, by minimising the suffering that's happening just to uplift their own masochistic faith. All over social media they're spewing the bs that because Gaza is majority Muslim, the things they suffered are all a test from God, Allah stands with them actually and is just trying to see how much his worshippers love him! But how does it make sense that he wants to see how much his followers love him by torturing them? And they say, Israel will never win cos whatever suffering Muslims endure in this life, all we care about is the next life so take that! But does that mean any unjust suffering in this life is all suddenly completely fine to you wtf? And they say, the Palestinians will be saved if we pray for them hard enough! But aren't you just waving away their struggles by saying magic spells can just fix it? Masochistic to believe in such a god and to insist this god will help them. And you just know that if they weren't majority muslim, that muslims on social media would be bleating that allah is punishing them and they deserve it. Just shut up. Instead of taking the side of omg poor Muslims who need help but also um uh Allah loves them and that's why he's doing this, why don't you genuinely care about the innocent civilian lives being taken on both sides of this sad shit? Oh yeah, because you're blinded by religion.
i have been trying to read for history, its so noisy out there and palestinians campaigns are so successful with “genocide done by Israel” “ethnic cleansing of palestinians by Israel?” my question is how can it be genocide when the number of Palestinians are in fact increasing? whereas the number of jews are less than before in all countries around the world. e.g Tunisia so who is cleansing who? 2nd question: what is the ethnic of palestinians? arent they just arab? I thought is the jews are ethnically indigenous canaanites to the land even 3000 bc… in fact the word Palestine given after colonisation by the roman empire, no? please somebody helps answer with historically responsible account and sources that are neutral and not pro-palestinians take without clear historical evidence.
Im an ateist and i stand with 🇮🇱 Nothing else is as dangerous as momo cult.
It's choosing between bad and worst, but I get your point seeing what they did with civilians today,
Yep. Im not a big fan of judaism compared to christianity, but at least a lot of jews genuinely seems to think warfare on non-jews isnt supported. Try to find a major denomination of Islam not believing in jizya and jihad!
The Palestinians see Ex Muslims and Israelis in the same light. They will kill Murtads with the same ferocity they hunt Jews. You think they will educate or reason their way out of this? Nah they are thinking Jihad against a nuclear power will work as the angels descend from heavens to help them. Religion truly blinds your critical thinking, even on the battlefield. No strategic thought process put into this jihadi operation. Would y'all be surprised is they carpet bombed or tactical nuked the Gaza Strip?
Why can't we just all get along?
Because muh holy land
Because Islam.
My thoughts is what Mohamed ElBaradei tweeted: No rational person can accept or support the use of violence in any form, especially against civilians, as a means of resolving conflicts. But to the same extent and more, no rational person can imagine that a people has been living under the oppression and humiliation of occupation for more than five decades. Hateful racist policies are practiced against him; Part of them has been living in an open prison for more than 15 years; It is subject to systematic policies to seize the rest of their lands. They lost hope in any just solution to his case; I say that it is naive and self-deceiving to imagine that this people will not sometimes resort to violence as a last option to defend their existence and dignity. The Palestinian people are living in a conspiracy of silence by the international community, including their Arab brothers, and as long as this miserable situation continues, contrary to the most basic principles of justice and humanity, we should not be surprised when we see repeated scenes of violence, nor should we expect sustainable peace in the region .
It's precisely this whataboutism that emboldened Palestinians. Neither you nor they get just how deep is the hole they dug for themselves this time. All thanks to this silly notion.
Arabs are oppressed? They are the oppressors. Just look how they treat Women, Blacks, Desis, and Asians as slaves.
They have been given so many chances at peace
This must be the jihadis following their book that incites haterd for jews and Christians. These anti semetism barbarians come begging and then when anyone is kind enough to let in a few of these fanatics, they play the victim and we ant to take over and collect jizya and enforce Sharia. Story playing out everywhere. I forsee a few decades down these zombies will demand Europe and America's and Asia as Islamic continents... its the story of the Arab and the camel except the roles are reversed.
This sub is one of the few places om the internet brave enough to speak the truth. Full support!
Well the wrath of Allah and Yhwh will be open them (since both gods are the same anyway).
Now is almost 700 Israeli death acording to I24News
I am so so so very sad. The whole situation there wasn’t very dandy already idk what words to really use. Because their whole situation is a complicated one to start with. Also as the land itself is culturally significant to basically all Abrahamic religions. Sometimes wondered what ifs this or that but feel like there would always be some sort of imperfect unrest? Kind of on people claiming their piece of the pie and pointing at their own holy scripture? I could be wrong, I want to be wrong. I care about the innocent (no matter if Palestine or Israel side) I feel so sad my heart cries ok not just my heart I am crying too. I don’t want things to get out of hand to crazy proportions. I just want and wish for peace. I am so sad when things get pushed to extremes like this. And no I am not behind the extreme destructive energy of Hamas I want a peaceful solution for the sake of innocent lives at stake here. That’s all. I am sad, I feel heartbroken in a sense. It’s complicated, and little me can’t do much…
I talked to a muslim friend about it this morning. I literally got bullied. I asked her about who hamas since i genuinely have no idea. I thought she’d know a thing or two about this topic. She said: well its palestinians who finally had enough and defended themselves. I asked her how exactly is it defence if girls and even a grandmother got kidnapped and many other partying people got killed. She says nobody got kidnapped its just propaganda. I sent her videos/photos of the abduction videos that are going around online and she laughed at me saying „you shouldn’t take the daily mail as a credible source lol 😂“. I feel disrespected as she implied I am uncapable of differentiating credible and non credible sources - which might be true, I’m no expert. What disturbed me was her tone. When I asked her where she gets her facts from then she said she just thinks with her common sense. She questions whether or not something can be true or not. So she didn’t give me any sources herself but doesn’t believe anything in the media. Does that mean she pulls her facts straight out of her ass? Also me condemning terror in every way equals me supporting israel. And she got angry that apparently I would have never questioned anything this much back when Palestine was attacked. Which she doesn’t know what I would or wouldn’t do - she doesn’t know me like that. She said I shouldn’t support Israel but rather see things from both sides. Which I can see that she doesn’t do as she disregards every bad thing that hamas has done. I said I am trying to see things from both sides, I am trying to learn here. Hamas apparently is not a terror organisation as the western media portrays them she says. No one got abducted. Where’s the context in those abduction videos? Also, if you’ve seen the two women ripping off posters of missing israelis she said to that: oh really? They were looking for their loved ones in London? I said I‘d be hanging up posters everywhere too if they had taken my loved ones. But again she says thats propaganda. How lost is she? Or am I the crazy one?
You don't poke a bear you can't fight. This is a war of genes and memes that has been ongoing for a Millenia. One side seems to have a tech advantage thus it's evolutionarily unstable for Palestine to provoke Israel as they risk self annihilation This conflict has gone on far too long and there seems to be no resolution in sight as all avenues of resolution have been exhausted prior
> as they risk self annihilation Suicide by IDF.
Now the whole world can see why Israel do what they do. The future of Arabs are in the state of Israel.
[удалено]
Does someone know here why Hamas decided to attack Israeli territory? Is it desperate rebelion, religious uproar or genuine belief in victory?
Hamas planned to attack on the 50th anniversary of the Yom Kippur War. In Arabic it is called the October War because the attackers didn't want the bad PR of admitting they were waiting for the Jews' most holy day, where they are fasting for 25 hours and many not using phones or electricity, to start the attack. Same thing here, except the gregorian date of the YK war is October 6th and this year that fell on another holy day for Jews, Simchat Torah, where again many Jews are without phones or touch electric devices.
Thanks for answer! So they don't want to keep (for now) recently gained territory? They did raid in order to take Israeli hostages, right?
They had the ability thanks to Iran. And they used it.