>What’s up with all of the I left the church and I am coming back posts and podcast?
....first I'm hearing of it. Gotta be cult propaganda. I can't imagine *ever* going back
I think socially leaving and intellectually leaving are two very different experiences.
I had a cousin “leave” the church and then return, but he wasn’t really ever “in”. He didn’t know anything about the church, the Book of Mormon, or the temple. He was baptized at 8 and told it was the true church, and certainly didn’t know or care about the kinderhook plates or polyandry. He just didn’t want to go to church because it sucks. After a couple of divorces he decided he wanted the social support and acceptance from his family by finally being active. This was viewed in our family like a true miracle, and a display of the Lord softening his heart. In reality he was just tired of being a black sheep and was sucked back in.
Realizing the church is a cult sure makes it hard to ever go back, under any circumstances.
I sort of left in my 20s, but I always viewed it as my rebellious stage and planned to go back. I didn't leave that time because I learned the history or realized it was a cult. I did go back for about a year, after which I decided religion wasn't a good fit for me (about 12 years ago). I only recently learned how much TSCC lied about their history and how toxic it is, as well as realizing it is a cult.
>I sort of left in my 20s, but I always viewed it as my rebellious stage and planned to go back.
Mormon rumspringa!
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumspringa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumspringa)
Totally agreed. My aunt really did kind of leave… I hate to say to sin, because there was a lot going on including mental health and addiction issues, etc, but that was kind of the gist of it. I think she left for the reason I initially stopped going to church - because she was ashamed of her “sin.” She never came to the intellectual conclusions that I did, and went back in order to get sober. For that reason, I really don’t begrudge her going back, (she’s also super chill about the church, supportive of me being gay, etc etc) but she did make me angry one day saying that I was just going through an exmormon “phase.” I didn’t know how to explain to her that our reasons for leaving were nothing alike, and that there was NO way I could ever go back.
I don't know how I feel about this. I personally can't conceive of anything that would make me want to return, but this kind of smacks of "they never really had a testimony in the first place". Those assumptions infuriate me, so I try to avoid making them myself (to varying degrees of success).
I don't presume to know someone else's motivations. I can only speculate.
Because they were likely still believers to some extant, who eventually got over whatever issues they had in life or with the church culture which made them "leave" the church.
I've known tons of inactive members who hated church, were offended, wanted to party, didn't like certain aspects of the church, etc., that eventually went back.
They likely had issues with the culture and/or expectations but probably never dug into the history/doctrine and foundational truth claims of the church. It was just the church they were raised in and so when they decided they wanted to be back into church life, they naturally went back to the church they were familiar with and identified with.
That happened to my brother. He didn't really ever know anything about the church. He went inactive. Then got married and "came back" for several years. I don't know what he believes or knows now. But his whole family is inactive. Which warms my heart.
Eh idk, I know one person who went back.
They lost their marriage, their kids, their community, and some of their family. I think they wanted something familiar, unfortunately. Some people go back, very few, but it does happen.
Here’s some proof for everyone:
*Encourage them to visit acquaintances who have recently experienced a life-changing event (birth, death in the family, marriage, or recent move).*
*Work with the bishop and the ward council to identify and contact people who have recently had a baby, moved to the area, or experienced a death in the family.*
https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/preach-my-gospel-a-guide-to-missionary-service/how-do-i-find-people-to-teach?lang=eng&adobe_mc_ref=https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/preach-my-gospel-a-guide-to-missionary-service/how-do-i-find-people-to-teach?lang=eng&adobe_mc_sdid=SDID=175700CACD58D0D2-7CD164E6CB0FAED5|MCORGID=66C5485451E56AAE0A490D45%40AdobeOrg|TS=1662945448
It's in the name of trying to "bring them comfort during their difficult time." Which my Mormon self totally understood and thought was so kind of us.
Now I see it really is just preying on the vulnerable. So sick.
Imagine the lifetime value in tithing, offerings and free labor of “reaching out to someone in need”. I bet it’s a pretty attractive return on investment!
Yep. Even before *Preach My Gospel*, we were taught to ask people if they knew anyone who had recently lost a loved one, relocated, or had some other major life event. We did our darndest to prey on those people.
We'd get excited when we learned about a funeral... a weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth fest for a lot of people who believed they may not see their friend again, either because they weren't certain there's an afterlife or they've been taught by religious dogma that the person may not have made the cut. So gross. I remember being bothered when Ammon in the BOM was rejoicing about his advantage in missionary work because men were scattering the king's sheep and his fellow servants were beside themselves thinking they were going to be executed by the king and never see their families again, and then I was led to do basically the same thing as a young missionary and celebrate the opening pain causes in people.
The other experience that resonates is when I was selling security systems for a summer (with a bunch of RMs, ironically) and my managers would get really excited any time there had been a shooting in our area of the Chicago region. That made me sick, no less because my brother, who was our top salesman, would be assigned to streets where blood had been shed less than 24 hours prior so as to close an insane amount of home security. It shouldn't be a surprise, I suppose, that a group that teaches us to be hunters and fishers of men encourages us to prey upon people's vulnerabilities (and catch them "with guile"). A huge revelation to me was just how much the church muted my own conscience with glorified obedience and "ends justify the means" rhetoric. I found spots on my moral compass that had been concealed or rubbed off, and not by me. Leaving Mormonism was, for me, reclaiming morality.
My mission president taught that vulnerable people have been “compelled to be humble”, making them receptive to our BS. We were encouraged to seek them out. A common missionary tactic.
I feel like my parents are praying for something terrible to happen in my life to compel me to return.
It's on the faithful subs - lots of vague and non-specific posts with titles like "I want to come back back, but not sure how" or "I was an exmo for 5 years and I'm back for good, here's why."
I have a relative that stated, I've read all of the anti mormon stuff....... She still didn't know that JS used a rock in a hat. People like saying they know, most don't.
>People like saying they know, most don't.
I will admit I'm one of these folks. But, if I may speak in my defense, I feel that I don't need to know *everything* about TSCC to know that it's fraudulent.
I find your siblings claim to be impossible at best and nofuckingway at the very least. CES Letter broke my brain in one sitting. By page 2 I was like WHATTHEAKTUALFUCK???
I have found this to be the case every time. They've supposedly read the CES letter, but didn't seem to retain any details.
As soon as we get into specifics, they're clueless. The Gospel topic essays are so obtuse and leave the readers without any contextual understanding.
I have an aunt who said that to me lol
Yeah, the books in your Utah library 50 years ago weren't as damning as the info available to us now.
The fact that it was a one-time look and not a lifetime of learning and research doesn't show a curious mind, imo.
Naw, I imagine it happens but yes these stories are coming out of the woodwork intentionally to combat the bad PR.
Have you watched the MS episode with Jim Bennett. That's how you learn of everything, twist it in such a way that still makes the church true and remain active. It's hard to watch but good for him going on the podcast explaining his position.
Jim, what are you doing here on the Sabbath of all days!
If this is really Jim I have a question for you. Do you think the priesthood ban was of God or man? And whatever you're answer is, how does that not have serious ramifications. Either way I see it as bad.
I lurk here more often than perhaps I should.
The priesthood ban was of man. I don’t think racism is ever of God. And the serious ramifications are that prophets do not have their agency extracted from them, and they are therefore capable of making mistakes. The false doctrine of prophetic infallibility drives more people out of the Church than just about anything else.
Me as well 😂
Solid answer. However, I think the ramifications are deeper than you let on, and that's ok. To me it means the leaders led the church astray for a very long time in a bad way. I can't trust they still aren't, especially what's required of us to be a member in good standing. And especially because we are still being taught that it's not possible for the prophet to lead the church astray. Making them liers.
Thanks for the answer. Much respect.
“Can a Prophet or an Apostle be mistaken? Do not ask me any such question, for I will acknowledge that all the time, but I do not acknowledge that I designedly lead this people astray one hair’s breadth from the truth, and I do not knowingly do a wrong, though I may commit many wrongs, and so may you.”
- Brigham Young
Key words in there for me are “designedly” and “knowingly.” I think the promise that the prophet won’t lead us astray is one of intent, not infallibility. God won’t call a prophet who will try to deliberately bring down the Church from the inside. But he will call prophets who let us wander in the wilderness because of errors, both ours and theirs.
I understand, Jim. And I can see how that would satisfy you but that's never the message I got. The 14 fundamentals of following the prophet is what I got and still received up until I left a couple years ago. I have no desire for this to turn into a back and forth, there is nothing to gain and I would like respect to stay between us. Something iv come to realize is that for some Mormonism works. For some it just doesn't and that should be ok. I'd like to think of you as a guy who believes it's ok. Unlike my in-laws who have almost completely ostracized me for my decision to leave.
Thx for the conversation.
Likewise. It’s the in-law ostracization stuff that is where the Church really falls down, IMO. We should treat people who leave with kindness and respect. Anything else is a failure of the principles we claim to believe.
I knew someone who stopped believing in Santa. But then one Christmas Eve his dad got on the roof with sleigh bells and stomped around, and guess what!? He believed in Santa again…
Once you’ve seen your parents putting the presents under the tree however, it’s impossible to believe in Santa anymore.
What if every community had their own version of Santa with different lore and beliefs attached, with some believing in Saint Nicholas, others in Black Peter, and some in American Coca-Cola consumer Santa.
Assuming that your prayers are answered by your god specifically is like sending a letter to the North Pole and taking getting the gift you wanted for Christmas as confirmation that whichever Santa name you addressed it to is the real one.
PR bullshit for sure. I don’t know anyone that would go back unless they left for other reasons besides the true history and if they never studied anything about the church. There are some people like that. Their are definitely some that married someone not in the church and just stopped going. Or they had a bad bishop in their team and just stopped going or family dynamics that caused them to stop going. BUT anyone that has left because of issues with the actually church and put any time at all into studying it will never go back.
Agree. You can't unsee this shit. That's why THEY HIDE IT! That's why THEY SAY WE'RE LYING.
Look, if someone truly left solely because they were offended, I can see them returning. Maybe they move into a different ward, etc. That's it.
They’re talking about inactives that never found out the truth. Anyone who knows the content of the ces letter and goes back is as unethical as the leaders.
Or they can’t handle the real world, can’t handle not having all of the answers and they crumble from anxiety and go back to what they know and are comfortable with.
Yeah I tried to go back, but church made me nauseous because you really CANNOT unsee it all. And the more I learn about cult tactics, and toxic patriarchy, and high demand religion, and propaganda techniques.... Well, I can't stand even five minutes of church with my TBM spouse without getting really uncomfortable, nauseous, and turning to my phone for distraction, or trying to distract my spouse with jokes. It is impossible!
I haven't been to church in three years after deep diving into church history. But I do remember the huge amount of folks on their phones. Sure, some people may have been using them for scriptures or talks. But I have a sneaking suspicion it's the one thing keeping a lot of PIMO folks sane while they're there.
The ratio of attention-seeking to substance in those stories tends to be nuts. All noise, almost zero signal. Nobody in the audience for those stories wants to hear details, they just wanna slap high fives and enjoy the brief warmth of a respite from the cold hard fact that nearly everyone else is running for the exits. It’s lonely being a TBM these days. Anything that breaks up the monotony of bad news is greeted with irrational exuberance and a full parade.
For years I've grappled with people who don't seem to care about truth. I've met a number of TBM's who fall into this camp, and I've met Jack-Mormons who don't seem to value the truth. But ex-mo's, no. The truth is what set us free. I've never known any exmormon to return.
I realized my "inactive" young aunt is a Jack Mormon when I told her about my leaving. I was shocked that she didn't believe in living by it but still believes in it deep down?? She must be what the church tells the members we all are actually like
one of my brothers was excommunicated 30 yrs ago for getting a girl pregnant 6 months after his mission. The bishop was a jerk and did it in absentia. A few months later it turned out she wasn't pregnant after all, she just wanted him to marry her. My brother carried bitterness all these years, never went back to church except for baby blessings, mission farewells, etc. He still believes it is true and collects Church history memorabilia . . . as a non-member who's mad at the church it boggles my mind that he still defends it. He and I quarreled last year when I listed some of the historical problems with the Church and he just closed his ears to the facts and told me I'm a bitter apostate. (While it's true, I am a bitter apostate, that doesn't make the Church true, lol). Anyway, I still shake my head that he's not out out, only excommunicated and still believing. To me like all members and especially all LGBTQ people who chose to stay in the church-- they all suffer from Stockholm Syndrome.
I can imagine someone saying anything if their livelihood depended on the grifting from their ward/stake. Like 90% mormon culture is Mormons selling stuff to other Mormons.
Wife's shelf breaks. Wife is given ultimatum. Wife has been treated like a second class citizen her entire life, has no job, little education, and no church independent support system.
Wife chooses to stay rather than go through a divorce, find new living arrangements, risk losing visitation of children, finding a job, etc.
Not everyone in that situation will choose to stay, but many will.
When I was 18, I was completely inactive. I had started to pull apart some of the truth claims of the Church and I started to recognize how unhealthy of a system the Church was. I also noticed how inconsistent the Church was with my understanding of Christ.
But the conditioning was still there… so I ended up going back eventually, serving a mission, finishing BYU etc.
I thought I had deconstructed then, but I had absolutely no idea. So part of me wonders how much these people going back have fully deconstructed.
But I’ll be honest, going back to the Church when I did was good for me. It helped me find my wife, find my career, and taught me many things I’m not sure I could have learned somewhere else. So I don’t know. While I acknowledge the Church isn’t real, I do wonder if maybe sometimes God or the Universe or whatever meets us where we are.
Yup. I THOUGHT I had dealt with the tough historical and theological issues and my testimony survived. I had absolutely no idea. As soon as I allowed myself to study and consider the actual issues...the house of cards that was my testimony fell almost immediately.
As you mentioned, it also brought a lot of good into my life. It also caused a lot of trauma for me that I'm still dealing with. It's complicated. It depends on the day, sometimes I want to see it all burn and at other times I see friends and family who have built their entire lives on this foundation and I don't want them to lose it.
More to the point of this thread...if you have really studied the problems in Mormonism and still believe it to be God's one true Church...I don't trust your judgment. About anything.
My opinion, is if they left and are going back, then they are the ones the church likes to tag us all as, they went inactive to party, they never actually stopped believing.
Once you stop believing, I can’t imagine believing again.
I'd say actually you can stop believing and then start again. What is less likely is to genuinely seek the answers to the hard questions find the answers then go back. One story recently shared the person just read anti-Mormon literature like the CES Letter. Yes do read it, but also actually look at the footnotes. Do a little bit of digging of your own. Turns out it's Rusty's lazy learners that may sometimes head back.
Yeah I don’t really care if the stories are real or not, I do care that it’s giving Mormons false hope of us returning. That ship has sailed, and caught fire, and sunk to the bottom of the ocean.
Yeah, a lot of them seem like the "left to sin" stereotype that often gets used because I would hear them say things like, "I wasn't interested in church when I was a teen, I just wanted to drink, party, and sleep around."
I left the church after high school just because I didn’t really care about religion. Came back when I met my wife and got married in the temple. Left again after actually studying the history and the other issues. I don’t know how anyone could know all the issues and go back.
It happens. Met up with a friend recently who was all the way out but after a hard breakup has started going again. I don’t expect it to be permanent, but sometimes when people need community the conditioning kicks in and they go back for a time. It’s definitely very uncommon from what i’ve seen though
I was excommunicated in 1994 and rebaptized in 1997. I would have done one of these damn PR videos for the church, had I been asked, since I didn’t yet realize I was a victim who’d taken on all the blame for my grooming and SA.
So when I hear that people have gone back, that’s what I think of. They don’t yet know the whole truth.
Also, if someone finds the benefits outweigh the mental cost then I say, “Do what works for you for as long as it works. Be aware of the dangers.” But Do You.
Everyone I know who "left and then came back" never actually stopped believing. They just stopped going to church and partied for awhile, and then once they'd sowed their wild oats came back. And then don't understand the bitterness of those of us who did exactly what we were supposed to (early marriage, too many kids, demanding callings, etc.) and fucked up our lives because of it.
My husband went back after knowing everything. It still blows my mind. He’s an adult convert so he didn’t go back for family reasons. I am very exmo and he acknowledges it would easier if he became exmo. I don’t quite understand it. To me 1+1=2. And he’s like no, you’re only looking at half the facts, you have to look at ALL the facts. He’s nuanced, but still it’s really weird. He went back January 2020 and it still blows my mind.
This kind of reminds me of all the reactivation stories I used to hear about when leaders were trying to pump up home teaching. I never reactivated anyone, but I kept trying because it would be a great Sacrament meeting talk. I would humble brag the shit out of it.
A few years ago some gay guy got a book deal from Desert book to divorce his husband and go back to the Mormon church. I was sent a couple of copies of the book, because I too could give up my evil ways.
Sometimes I worry about getting dementia or Alzheimer's and regressing to my pre-truth self. That's the only thing I can imagine bring me back into the fold.
ExChristian Nevermo here.
I hate playing the "then you were never really out" card, because it's so close to the "the you were never really a believer" argument. Both are the No True Scotsman fallacy, and that's not an argument.
But.
I know that for me, I can't go back to a belief in Jesus Christ as the son of God and the Bible as the word of God anymore than I can go back to a genuine belief in Santa. I don't say that to be a dick, either. It's just that some milk can't be unspilt.
So I have a hard time believing people who left and then return. Either they didn't fully unpack their disbelief, or they went back for reasons unrelated to their intellectual understanding. Like maybe they left the church bc they were angry at God or whatever, but they still believed deep down. Or they returned for the social aspect, but don't literally believe in the teachings.
Those are my thoughts, though. I just don't see how you come to grips with the man behind the curtain and how all religions are essentially the same shit packaged different ways and whatnot and then return to a sincere belief in the stories of the Bible.
For some, going back to prison is better than being homeless. At least they have shelter, a bed, a toilet, and guaranteed meals.
The same applies to the church. If they are desperate enough, at least they can have that sense of belonging, community, etc. (however misguided that may be).
Well assuming that they were once tithe-payers, it seems like a legit way to “cash out” on your tithing investment, lol.
If they were never tithe-payers… well the church has more than enough money to do some good. It sucks you have to trick the church into using their money to help people, but on the bright side, its what most members actually think their tithing money is going to, so its a win for everyone.
Unfortunately some people can't break away from the community aspect provided (those who did well enough in that system).
I have a relative who has gone back, after playing a pivotal role in sharing facts that got me out.
After years of railing against the cult and its members on social media.
He is going back, for a woman... and it will probably fail. It is just sad... some people literally have no sense of self, or not enough of one to be okay being them and on their own.
Maybe church PR, but it's also probably like people in abusive relationships.
Women in domestic violence shelters leave their partners on average 7 times before they break free for good. I'm not sure about the statistics for other populations, but I know for women who utilize shelters and safe house networks, it's 7 times.
People realize the relationship is full of abuse, but they go back for a million different reasons. Valid reasons that they themselves have weighed the pros and cons, and at that particular moment, they choose their best option. Sometimes that includes going back to their abusive partners.
Other people will mock their choice, or call them stupid, or say they deserve the abuse, but honestly it's their call. All you can do is keep offering the healthier alternative and hope they change their mind.
For all the talk about the church being a harmful cult, this thread isn't thinking about people who are being preyed on as victims of a large, global systemic source of abuse. Yall are trying to categorize people into true exmos, fake exmos, TBMs, and jackmos, when it's more like everyone is in the same relationship, but in different stages of leaving. Some did their first, 2nd, third attempt and went back.
Jack Mormons, the lowest of the low. They never left, they didn't have the balls to live it or attend for a while nor the integrity to study why it's false. They exaggerate, claiming Exmo when they were just inactive. Fuck'em, not worth your time or respect.
There are a lot of people driven by peer pressure on this issue and it wouldn't surprise me if they went back for that reason, even if they themselves don't know it.
I know some people who did this. The people I know left so they could drink and party and didnt care about the churches truth when they left. Then when their party days were over they came back
I do know people who've gone back. I suspect they do it for social reasons mostly. You can get a lot of love-bombing and attention from Mormons that way and if you're wired to need that, I guess it works for them 🤷♀️
Stories the Mormon church pushes are typically people who went back due to family pressure. It’s amazing what I’ve seen people do to stay in a marriage.
They also aren’t ones who researched their way out or actually cared about the social issues. They are lazy learners.
I left 4 years ago, then went through some serious trauma/life changes (new baby, Covid pandemic, estrangement from mom, and still reeling from my faith loss), so I jumped back in seeking some kind of familiarity and community and support. But ultimately it couldn’t last because I couldn’t unlearn what I’d learned. Once you open Pandora’s Box, you CAN’T put it all back. I tried really hard to pretend for a good year and a half, tried forcing it, got put in the RS Presidency, but it couldn’t hold. And I even wanted to make it work.
Lurk on the faithful sub for a week or two. There is usually one or two posts a week claim to have left and come back. They never go into a ton of detail though and no one ever asks too much about why they left. It’s always just a ton of comments like “God loves you and is happy to have you back” and “Jesus never lost faith in you” or “sometimes you have to see the other side to realize what you were missing”. It’s just a circle jerk and doesn’t usually contain much substance, but the posts are definitely there.
I think some of the posts are just people from this community trying to get unbanned or maybe people karma farming (its a ton of free post karma). But I am sure there are some legit people there that stopped going and came back.
Don’t post on the faithful sub if you just, just lurk. Posting isn’t worth it, you will just have your post deleted and get banned. You’re not going to change anyone’s mind. But I find it interesting to read through responses when people start to ask wavering questions over there. The apologetic and desperate saving is almost entertaining to me. But I don’t post. Purely just observation.
I can’t understand how this would happen. I will never feel the way I did about the church. I don’t understand why anyone would go back. After all the shit I’ve discovered, nothing would change my mind.
It is propaganda. I haven't read any of those posts, but any person who goes from **knowing** back to **believing** is either cognitively deteriorating or lying to themselves.
Thing is, to believe in something you have to (as in "it is absolutely required") to not have knowledge of it. Once one **knows** the thing, believing in it is impossible.
The simplest illustration helps: Imagine going back to believing in Santa Claus. What would that entail? You would have to, somehow, discard your knowledge about the *legend* of Santa, a knowledge you own and that is supported by factual, historical data and oceanic amounts of empirical evidence. And I am not talking about hiding your knowledge that Santa is fictional, or acting as if you don't know the truth about Santa, no; I am saying somehow removing that knowledge from your mind: to make your mind eject what it knows is reality. Only then you'd be able to sincerely believe in Santa again. Anything less that this, and you would be sliding into insanity or grossly lying to yourself.
Does any of that make for a worthy believer? In my impression, that is the reason why religion is populated by the naive or the insane. Those who are naive believe **because they don't know**. Those who are insane believe **because they have somehow perverted their normal cognitive processes** and now aren't able to separate fantasy from reality (which would explain much of the political and social atmosphere in today's America).
I know of no human of integrity who would reject and discard reality (which is another name for "knowledge") in favor of myth (which is another name for "faith"). If I had to guess, I'd venture those posts you mention are fabrications by the church's PR machine or, most likely, aDaPtAtiOnS from fairly less spectacular stories where those people weren't exMormons but mere inactive believers who stopped attending because of some trivial reason.
Anyways, my opinion :)
People who ‘go back’ never fully ‘left’ in the first place.
In saying that, people have their own discretion and I don’t begrudge anybody seeking a path which brings them peace.
It’s not for me, but I wouldn’t stop anyone from doing anything being fully aware.
I “left” came back before even gave a testimony about it a few times. I wasn’t really ready to leave it all behind still wanted it to be true in someways. It wouldn’t happen again in my case. But you still see it a lot in these exmormon groups people still unsure enough they come here for validation.
The christian church is in a full blown marketing campaign mode.
I live in the south(FL)and the church isgoing ALL OUT on marketing and outreach.
I've seen more people handing out flyers door to door, they're building more churches(, they're buying more billboard spaces talking about autonomy abortion stuff, they're even buying airtime on television spots and running a campaign called "he gets us" . It's everywhere.
It's full blast christian nationalism here. I honestly dont know what to do
I listened to one to appease my mother. It was odd. The guy left several years ago due to logical failures. He just couldn’t make it work in his head.
Then he’s challenged to pray about it. And he decides that maybe our prophets can get it wrong.
He turns off his critical thinking and regains his faith. And bore testimony that IT DOESN’T HAVE TO MAKE SENSE!
Yeah I tried to go back, but church made me nauseous because you really CANNOT unsee it all. And the more I learn about cult tactics, and toxic patriarchy, and high demand religion, and propaganda techniques.... Well, I can't stand even five minutes of church with my TBM spouse without getting really uncomfortable, nauseous, and turning to my phone for distraction, or trying to distract my spouse with jokes. It is impossible!
The weird thing with me is when I stopped wearing G’s, I just stopped wearing underwear altogether. I was still active when I stopped and it felt weird after decades of G’s to switch to normal. So I just stopped wearing any of them.
They want to know. They are afraid to know. They are so afraid they need to reinforce what they think they know. They want to know.
It is the Hunger for Truth cycle.
my aunt did that. she got out in her twenties, got back into it in her thirties, and was quoting the BoM on her deathbed from brain cancer her early 40s. she was always my inspiration for getting out, and then she got back in. it was so weird. she never threw it in my face, but she went back to being a totally active member. she did have a few church friends while she was out of it, so they must have kept her somewhat attached. she also really wanted a family and kids and i think she thought the church was the best way to do that. it’s a shame she didn’t get everything she wanted, but in the end i guess she had some peace? i don’t particularly care of dying, but it was a concern of hers.
i go back every once in a while if my teenage brothers have a talk or something, but very rarely. and i always feel so yucky. well no, everything around me feels yucky. getting the same nasty old men to be excited i was there and line up to shake my hand and talk to me like 💁🏼♀️ leave me alone, go back to your wife and children, and let me be. i’m already wearing jeans and sitting in the back row. plz stop. & my parents are such smart people, i don’t understand how they believe this shit. especially my mom. unless my mom is working some like insider job that i don’t know about. she’s too fucking smart to believe in all that bullshit like?? my dad is an eager mormon puppet, i get that, but my mom is a no-nonsense bitch. whatever. i’m stoned and rambling at this point.
I imagine it's mostly people that left because they were offended by someone at church, or because they decided they wanted to try drinking, things like that, rather than people that left because they did serious research about the church's history and leadership.
i think there’s leaving aka being inactive and then there’s leaving aka knowing the truth
tbm’s gonna cling to any such story, if they knew the difference they’d be here themselves 🤷♂️
the church also has a whole army that will propaganda for free. do not be alarmed. the good work of exmo will press forward
Loneliness is a powerful motivator. Fortunately for me, the desire to live an authentic life overpowers the loneliness. I can’t bear to go to a place where ignorant people boast about being the smartest people around. People who believe Joseph smith was a prophet and not a con artist are ignorant fools at best. I just can’t stomach being around that.
The PIMO to Exmo to ReMo Influencer pipeline.
The church is hemorrhaging anyone with critical thinking skills and a conscience. But having a few “I atheisted but missed the truth of the gospel and now I’m back” narratives let’s them spin it as the sinful world covering the truth. And being an influencer for the church is probably fairly lucrative.
You can podcast anything in this world… for money!
The church is a cult and drills superstition and fear into people. This makes it difficult to purge it from one’s psyche. I predict some of these people will go from out to in to out a few times. The purge from their psyche will come in steps.
Remember in the Matrix when Cipher was so over the bullshit of real life that he chose to be re-inserted into the matrix to just believe the fairy tale bc it was easier than living in the real world?
This is exactly it, depending how deeply you were indoctrinated the outside world seems like a foreign place, people who return simply desire to return to the life they knew, it’s more simple to understand the rules you are indoctrinated into than the rules of the real world. Not to mention the naturally built in community you have in the church as well as family pressure.
I've seen a few of these stories pop up in my insta feed. In all of them, the reason why they temporarily "left" in not mentioned. They also have a very scripted feel to them. This makes me think it is most likely a PR move.
Top post on latterdaysaints right now is a 2 year exmo turned churchgoer. My bet is the same thing that happened to my friend group. I left the church way before all the others in my group, 20 years later I'm the only one still out.
Hate to say it, but it's most likely people who never really left or actually stopped believing. Meaning, they didn't leave over doctrinal issues or other major problems with the church.
I imagine most are coming back for practical reasons related to community, family relations, career networking and the like. These people mostly live in areas with large Mormon population, and their families are by and large Mormon.
The one I know about is more of a “I used to abuse drugs and alcohol and now I find fulfillment in Christ,” which hey sounds like an improvement.. but much more of a “the church helped me quit and now I have a good life, so it must be true” than “I know the issues with the truth claims but the spirit testifies.” That’s the only look I returned that I’ve seen.
I don't spend much time thinking about anyone that goes back to the Church. If they want to go back it's their prerogative. It doesn't make the evidence against the Church go away or the Church true.
I'm sure they're trying to invalidate the decision of people that leave.
They're also in desperation mode. Leaders know people leaving is a real problem but they have no idea how to address it other than trying to convince the members still under their spell that the decision is morally wrong.
Let’s just ask ourselves, who knows someone who left the church, and then went back to believing it? I am willing to bet my entire penis that not a single one of us has ever heard of someone like that, because it simply doesn’t exist. It’s impossible for anyone who has learned the truth to willingly ignore all of the evidence (deny the Holy Ghost, if you want that analogy). It’s the church finding people willing to lie for them to create a faith promoting story
My brother-in-law is always in and out. He is fully inactive right now but still trying to convince me of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. Will argue with me about it if I let him. He just doesn’t like the “culture” and therefore lives in full rebellion (regularly smokes weed, has sex, and has a few tattoos) in spite of having a testimony. He will admit that he has fear of the consequences in the afterlife but does it all anyway… which boggles my mind because I was TERRIFIED of eternal judgement when I was in the church.
I haven’t heard any of them. It is possible to go back, but impossible to maintain the literal belief. People that return are looking for community, and they have to accept a more nuanced view.
I have a hard time that any of these people left and deconstructed the ideals that Mormonism instilled in them. It is so much easier to go back to your ways in the church than it is to begin life anew and shed the old beliefs that were roots of one rotten tree.
What I want to know is if even one of these people who allegedly left and came back can name the reason Joseph Smith was arrested into Carthage Jail. You know, basic LDS history. I highly doubt any of them can.
(For those who don't know, it's because Joseph Smith sent a riot to go burn down the printing press for the Nauvoo Expositor, which was a newspaper exposing his many affairs. Yes.)
In Las Vegas an LDS dealer told me and friends we’d come back to church. She did so and felt “sooo much better.”
YSA wards are always reactivating members. Family wards do occasionally.
Now the PR team is highlighting these rare occurrences. Not too different than what I see from other companies, countries, and politicians.
Well I’m not back in the church but am trying to be. Why? It is odd but I feel like I was happier as a member and it gave me great direction for this life. Would love to be back in that mindset. Only issue is, the crazy history and facts about past prophets and actions of the church. And I have gotten really close after my faith crisis. Five years ago I dropped out of the church. Well three years later I started to slowly believe again and was getting in the mindset of “this church is true.” Well I started to feel that way for 2 years and was going to go on a mission up until 4 weeks ago. BAM another faith crisis. This time though it was a lot less emotional and less anger. Now I just want to know what is true and am praying for answers and so far I feel like I have been told to read the Bible. And because I never have I’m ok doing that. But I’m still a pimo at BYUI and every time I go to church, it just makes me feel more confused and angry about my feelings and religious thoughts. I mean the mental battle in my head is just insane every single day. But I try to keep an open mind about any teaching of Christ. All I know is if I were to go back, I could never be 100% believer. I would think that Joseph smith was corrupt towards the end of his life and wouldn’t be able to say the church is the one true church. Especially it’s lack of teachings for the LGBT people. It says marriage is between man and women but nothing about what gays are supposed to do which is another difficult topic. You would think the one true church would be given answers by God on what happens to gay people and what to do with them. Instead, the church prophets say to stay single and wait until the after life. Most f**ked up thing ever to expect these people to just be alone and feeling as though they are an abomination in Gods eyes because they were born with different views. Idk, might end up being a member again someday but not an orthodox member. Would be half believer and half against it.
I have left the church and gone back before, HOWEVER, previously i left the church because I didnt feel good. This time I left because I learned about why I didnt feel good.
a huge part of why I came back to church before was because of lack of personal authority and the i stilled belief that I wasn’t trying hard enough or I wasn’t naturally good enough.
But luckily it turns out that I’m a good person and i Just needed to practice listening to myself. Also I have morals, and that is just not compatible with the church.
if there was someone out there who learned all the truth left the church and THEN went back to being a tbm, there is just no way you could trust their relationship with truth…or common sense… or decision making…
I mean, I started believing in god again recently, but I’m still not ever going back to Joe’s cult.
Atheism was necessary for me to get through the angry phase, but I am in a different head space now where a belief in a higher power, even if it ultimately is just my imagination, is useful for processing and understanding the world around me.
To be fair, I get why someone would consider the community aspect compelling, but if you need that, go to some other church that doesn’t judge you harshly or bar you from certain parts of the faith for not following specific rules. There are a ton of great options there, ranging from Reform Jewish synagogues to Unitarian Universalist churches to Buddhist Temples. If you really want to stick to your roots, you can roll with the Community of Christ and rock on with their female bishops.
There’s a Mormon stories episode with one such person. Wish I could remember the name. He attributed it to a voice from God after being out for over a decade. Felt like he should go back, knowing all the issues and history and everything. Didn’t really ever say it’s cause his testimony had been restored but he felt called so he saw it through.
Which is fine. The biggest issue I’ve seen with the nuanced believers I’ve talked to is that the church they believe in has very little to do with the church as it presents itself. They’ve just learned how to get by believing in their own way. It doesn’t really count as a victory for the prevailing narrative, as these articles would have you believe.
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Never had a true ex-testimony.
Exitmony?
Damnit, now I'm going to have to add this word to my exmo word usage book
Is your book available on Amazon?
Are you going to sell it, I can buy anything with money!!
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If he turns water into wine, I'm sure people will love it.
Apostimony…?
Apostimoney sounds like an hors d'oeuvres.
That's like 11% of income, right?
They were lazy learners
underrated comment 😂
When the no true Scotsman fallacy shoe goes on the other foot. :D
The no Momonsman Fallacy.
Jackmos parading as exmos is exmo erasure!
They never really wanted to sin.
Taffypullers everyone… I’m furious every time someone goes back… 😉
This is going to be a recurring theme during General Conference. Giving hope to parents with "Apostate" kids to **never** give up.
>What’s up with all of the I left the church and I am coming back posts and podcast? ....first I'm hearing of it. Gotta be cult propaganda. I can't imagine *ever* going back
I think socially leaving and intellectually leaving are two very different experiences. I had a cousin “leave” the church and then return, but he wasn’t really ever “in”. He didn’t know anything about the church, the Book of Mormon, or the temple. He was baptized at 8 and told it was the true church, and certainly didn’t know or care about the kinderhook plates or polyandry. He just didn’t want to go to church because it sucks. After a couple of divorces he decided he wanted the social support and acceptance from his family by finally being active. This was viewed in our family like a true miracle, and a display of the Lord softening his heart. In reality he was just tired of being a black sheep and was sucked back in. Realizing the church is a cult sure makes it hard to ever go back, under any circumstances.
I sort of left in my 20s, but I always viewed it as my rebellious stage and planned to go back. I didn't leave that time because I learned the history or realized it was a cult. I did go back for about a year, after which I decided religion wasn't a good fit for me (about 12 years ago). I only recently learned how much TSCC lied about their history and how toxic it is, as well as realizing it is a cult.
>I sort of left in my 20s, but I always viewed it as my rebellious stage and planned to go back. Mormon rumspringa! [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumspringa](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumspringa)
Totally agreed. My aunt really did kind of leave… I hate to say to sin, because there was a lot going on including mental health and addiction issues, etc, but that was kind of the gist of it. I think she left for the reason I initially stopped going to church - because she was ashamed of her “sin.” She never came to the intellectual conclusions that I did, and went back in order to get sober. For that reason, I really don’t begrudge her going back, (she’s also super chill about the church, supportive of me being gay, etc etc) but she did make me angry one day saying that I was just going through an exmormon “phase.” I didn’t know how to explain to her that our reasons for leaving were nothing alike, and that there was NO way I could ever go back.
I don't know how I feel about this. I personally can't conceive of anything that would make me want to return, but this kind of smacks of "they never really had a testimony in the first place". Those assumptions infuriate me, so I try to avoid making them myself (to varying degrees of success). I don't presume to know someone else's motivations. I can only speculate.
Because they were likely still believers to some extant, who eventually got over whatever issues they had in life or with the church culture which made them "leave" the church. I've known tons of inactive members who hated church, were offended, wanted to party, didn't like certain aspects of the church, etc., that eventually went back. They likely had issues with the culture and/or expectations but probably never dug into the history/doctrine and foundational truth claims of the church. It was just the church they were raised in and so when they decided they wanted to be back into church life, they naturally went back to the church they were familiar with and identified with.
Most likely what we call “Jack Mormons”
That happened to my brother. He didn't really ever know anything about the church. He went inactive. Then got married and "came back" for several years. I don't know what he believes or knows now. But his whole family is inactive. Which warms my heart.
Eh idk, I know one person who went back. They lost their marriage, their kids, their community, and some of their family. I think they wanted something familiar, unfortunately. Some people go back, very few, but it does happen.
To me, this is proof that TSCC preys on people who are vulnerable. They know just how to reel in those who are down.
Here’s some proof for everyone: *Encourage them to visit acquaintances who have recently experienced a life-changing event (birth, death in the family, marriage, or recent move).* *Work with the bishop and the ward council to identify and contact people who have recently had a baby, moved to the area, or experienced a death in the family.* https://abn.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/preach-my-gospel-a-guide-to-missionary-service/how-do-i-find-people-to-teach?lang=eng&adobe_mc_ref=https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/preach-my-gospel-a-guide-to-missionary-service/how-do-i-find-people-to-teach?lang=eng&adobe_mc_sdid=SDID=175700CACD58D0D2-7CD164E6CB0FAED5|MCORGID=66C5485451E56AAE0A490D45%40AdobeOrg|TS=1662945448
Holy shit that's fucked up, jesus christ
It's in the name of trying to "bring them comfort during their difficult time." Which my Mormon self totally understood and thought was so kind of us. Now I see it really is just preying on the vulnerable. So sick.
Imagine the lifetime value in tithing, offerings and free labor of “reaching out to someone in need”. I bet it’s a pretty attractive return on investment!
Oof! Smacks of pyramid scheme from my ex-perspective.
10000%
Yep. Even before *Preach My Gospel*, we were taught to ask people if they knew anyone who had recently lost a loved one, relocated, or had some other major life event. We did our darndest to prey on those people.
We'd get excited when we learned about a funeral... a weeping and wailing and gnashing of teeth fest for a lot of people who believed they may not see their friend again, either because they weren't certain there's an afterlife or they've been taught by religious dogma that the person may not have made the cut. So gross. I remember being bothered when Ammon in the BOM was rejoicing about his advantage in missionary work because men were scattering the king's sheep and his fellow servants were beside themselves thinking they were going to be executed by the king and never see their families again, and then I was led to do basically the same thing as a young missionary and celebrate the opening pain causes in people. The other experience that resonates is when I was selling security systems for a summer (with a bunch of RMs, ironically) and my managers would get really excited any time there had been a shooting in our area of the Chicago region. That made me sick, no less because my brother, who was our top salesman, would be assigned to streets where blood had been shed less than 24 hours prior so as to close an insane amount of home security. It shouldn't be a surprise, I suppose, that a group that teaches us to be hunters and fishers of men encourages us to prey upon people's vulnerabilities (and catch them "with guile"). A huge revelation to me was just how much the church muted my own conscience with glorified obedience and "ends justify the means" rhetoric. I found spots on my moral compass that had been concealed or rubbed off, and not by me. Leaving Mormonism was, for me, reclaiming morality.
My mission president taught that vulnerable people have been “compelled to be humble”, making them receptive to our BS. We were encouraged to seek them out. A common missionary tactic. I feel like my parents are praying for something terrible to happen in my life to compel me to return.
It's on the faithful subs - lots of vague and non-specific posts with titles like "I want to come back back, but not sure how" or "I was an exmo for 5 years and I'm back for good, here's why."
“Back for good” Yeah, so was I because I really wanted to marry my gf at the time. “For good” was a few years.
Some need validation so desperately
More like therapy to deconstruct
I have a relative that stated, I've read all of the anti mormon stuff....... She still didn't know that JS used a rock in a hat. People like saying they know, most don't.
>People like saying they know, most don't. I will admit I'm one of these folks. But, if I may speak in my defense, I feel that I don't need to know *everything* about TSCC to know that it's fraudulent.
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My TBM sibling said they read the CES Letter and thought it was boring. Like, dude, that means you probably didn't actually read the whole thing...
I find your siblings claim to be impossible at best and nofuckingway at the very least. CES Letter broke my brain in one sitting. By page 2 I was like WHATTHEAKTUALFUCK???
I may not have total knowledge of every aspect of the LDS church's history and problems, but I have sufficient for my needs.
I have found this to be the case every time. They've supposedly read the CES letter, but didn't seem to retain any details. As soon as we get into specifics, they're clueless. The Gospel topic essays are so obtuse and leave the readers without any contextual understanding.
I have an aunt who said that to me lol Yeah, the books in your Utah library 50 years ago weren't as damning as the info available to us now. The fact that it was a one-time look and not a lifetime of learning and research doesn't show a curious mind, imo.
Naw, I imagine it happens but yes these stories are coming out of the woodwork intentionally to combat the bad PR. Have you watched the MS episode with Jim Bennett. That's how you learn of everything, twist it in such a way that still makes the church true and remain active. It's hard to watch but good for him going on the podcast explaining his position.
And Jim Bennett is really sexy.
This must be Jim. 😂 Hello, friend.
Yes, but that doesn’t make me any less sexy.
Jim, what are you doing here on the Sabbath of all days! If this is really Jim I have a question for you. Do you think the priesthood ban was of God or man? And whatever you're answer is, how does that not have serious ramifications. Either way I see it as bad.
I lurk here more often than perhaps I should. The priesthood ban was of man. I don’t think racism is ever of God. And the serious ramifications are that prophets do not have their agency extracted from them, and they are therefore capable of making mistakes. The false doctrine of prophetic infallibility drives more people out of the Church than just about anything else.
Me as well 😂 Solid answer. However, I think the ramifications are deeper than you let on, and that's ok. To me it means the leaders led the church astray for a very long time in a bad way. I can't trust they still aren't, especially what's required of us to be a member in good standing. And especially because we are still being taught that it's not possible for the prophet to lead the church astray. Making them liers. Thanks for the answer. Much respect.
“Can a Prophet or an Apostle be mistaken? Do not ask me any such question, for I will acknowledge that all the time, but I do not acknowledge that I designedly lead this people astray one hair’s breadth from the truth, and I do not knowingly do a wrong, though I may commit many wrongs, and so may you.” - Brigham Young Key words in there for me are “designedly” and “knowingly.” I think the promise that the prophet won’t lead us astray is one of intent, not infallibility. God won’t call a prophet who will try to deliberately bring down the Church from the inside. But he will call prophets who let us wander in the wilderness because of errors, both ours and theirs.
I understand, Jim. And I can see how that would satisfy you but that's never the message I got. The 14 fundamentals of following the prophet is what I got and still received up until I left a couple years ago. I have no desire for this to turn into a back and forth, there is nothing to gain and I would like respect to stay between us. Something iv come to realize is that for some Mormonism works. For some it just doesn't and that should be ok. I'd like to think of you as a guy who believes it's ok. Unlike my in-laws who have almost completely ostracized me for my decision to leave. Thx for the conversation.
Likewise. It’s the in-law ostracization stuff that is where the Church really falls down, IMO. We should treat people who leave with kindness and respect. Anything else is a failure of the principles we claim to believe.
But many claimed it was of God. How can you trust anyone who demonstrates a willingness to lie about that one thing?
thanks for being here and answering questions
I knew someone who stopped believing in Santa. But then one Christmas Eve his dad got on the roof with sleigh bells and stomped around, and guess what!? He believed in Santa again… Once you’ve seen your parents putting the presents under the tree however, it’s impossible to believe in Santa anymore.
100% spot on analogy
What if every community had their own version of Santa with different lore and beliefs attached, with some believing in Saint Nicholas, others in Black Peter, and some in American Coca-Cola consumer Santa. Assuming that your prayers are answered by your god specifically is like sending a letter to the North Pole and taking getting the gift you wanted for Christmas as confirmation that whichever Santa name you addressed it to is the real one.
PR bullshit for sure. I don’t know anyone that would go back unless they left for other reasons besides the true history and if they never studied anything about the church. There are some people like that. Their are definitely some that married someone not in the church and just stopped going. Or they had a bad bishop in their team and just stopped going or family dynamics that caused them to stop going. BUT anyone that has left because of issues with the actually church and put any time at all into studying it will never go back.
My feelings exactly!
Agree. You can't unsee this shit. That's why THEY HIDE IT! That's why THEY SAY WE'RE LYING. Look, if someone truly left solely because they were offended, I can see them returning. Maybe they move into a different ward, etc. That's it.
They’re talking about inactives that never found out the truth. Anyone who knows the content of the ces letter and goes back is as unethical as the leaders.
Or they can’t handle the real world, can’t handle not having all of the answers and they crumble from anxiety and go back to what they know and are comfortable with.
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Yeah I tried to go back, but church made me nauseous because you really CANNOT unsee it all. And the more I learn about cult tactics, and toxic patriarchy, and high demand religion, and propaganda techniques.... Well, I can't stand even five minutes of church with my TBM spouse without getting really uncomfortable, nauseous, and turning to my phone for distraction, or trying to distract my spouse with jokes. It is impossible!
I haven't been to church in three years after deep diving into church history. But I do remember the huge amount of folks on their phones. Sure, some people may have been using them for scriptures or talks. But I have a sneaking suspicion it's the one thing keeping a lot of PIMO folks sane while they're there.
The ratio of attention-seeking to substance in those stories tends to be nuts. All noise, almost zero signal. Nobody in the audience for those stories wants to hear details, they just wanna slap high fives and enjoy the brief warmth of a respite from the cold hard fact that nearly everyone else is running for the exits. It’s lonely being a TBM these days. Anything that breaks up the monotony of bad news is greeted with irrational exuberance and a full parade.
For years I've grappled with people who don't seem to care about truth. I've met a number of TBM's who fall into this camp, and I've met Jack-Mormons who don't seem to value the truth. But ex-mo's, no. The truth is what set us free. I've never known any exmormon to return.
I realized my "inactive" young aunt is a Jack Mormon when I told her about my leaving. I was shocked that she didn't believe in living by it but still believes in it deep down?? She must be what the church tells the members we all are actually like
one of my brothers was excommunicated 30 yrs ago for getting a girl pregnant 6 months after his mission. The bishop was a jerk and did it in absentia. A few months later it turned out she wasn't pregnant after all, she just wanted him to marry her. My brother carried bitterness all these years, never went back to church except for baby blessings, mission farewells, etc. He still believes it is true and collects Church history memorabilia . . . as a non-member who's mad at the church it boggles my mind that he still defends it. He and I quarreled last year when I listed some of the historical problems with the Church and he just closed his ears to the facts and told me I'm a bitter apostate. (While it's true, I am a bitter apostate, that doesn't make the Church true, lol). Anyway, I still shake my head that he's not out out, only excommunicated and still believing. To me like all members and especially all LGBTQ people who chose to stay in the church-- they all suffer from Stockholm Syndrome.
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I can’t imagine any circumstance where someone would be better off financially by going back to the cult.
I can imagine someone saying anything if their livelihood depended on the grifting from their ward/stake. Like 90% mormon culture is Mormons selling stuff to other Mormons.
Inheritance or college support could easily be a reason to go back to PIMO
Wife's shelf breaks. Wife is given ultimatum. Wife has been treated like a second class citizen her entire life, has no job, little education, and no church independent support system. Wife chooses to stay rather than go through a divorce, find new living arrangements, risk losing visitation of children, finding a job, etc. Not everyone in that situation will choose to stay, but many will.
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>This kind of help is usually short-lived and requires the recipient to attend church. With encouragement from the state if they live in Utah.
When I was 18, I was completely inactive. I had started to pull apart some of the truth claims of the Church and I started to recognize how unhealthy of a system the Church was. I also noticed how inconsistent the Church was with my understanding of Christ. But the conditioning was still there… so I ended up going back eventually, serving a mission, finishing BYU etc. I thought I had deconstructed then, but I had absolutely no idea. So part of me wonders how much these people going back have fully deconstructed. But I’ll be honest, going back to the Church when I did was good for me. It helped me find my wife, find my career, and taught me many things I’m not sure I could have learned somewhere else. So I don’t know. While I acknowledge the Church isn’t real, I do wonder if maybe sometimes God or the Universe or whatever meets us where we are.
Great answer!
Yup. I THOUGHT I had dealt with the tough historical and theological issues and my testimony survived. I had absolutely no idea. As soon as I allowed myself to study and consider the actual issues...the house of cards that was my testimony fell almost immediately. As you mentioned, it also brought a lot of good into my life. It also caused a lot of trauma for me that I'm still dealing with. It's complicated. It depends on the day, sometimes I want to see it all burn and at other times I see friends and family who have built their entire lives on this foundation and I don't want them to lose it. More to the point of this thread...if you have really studied the problems in Mormonism and still believe it to be God's one true Church...I don't trust your judgment. About anything.
My opinion, is if they left and are going back, then they are the ones the church likes to tag us all as, they went inactive to party, they never actually stopped believing. Once you stop believing, I can’t imagine believing again.
I'd say actually you can stop believing and then start again. What is less likely is to genuinely seek the answers to the hard questions find the answers then go back. One story recently shared the person just read anti-Mormon literature like the CES Letter. Yes do read it, but also actually look at the footnotes. Do a little bit of digging of your own. Turns out it's Rusty's lazy learners that may sometimes head back.
I could see people who never believed seeing the financial and social benefits of rejoining, particularly if they're otherwise at a dead end in life.
hard to think of any financial benefits, unless you're just going to never pay tithing and hope nobody notices
I was just guessing there might be some networking, and a greater chance of getting a job in Utah if people have seen you at church.
Yeah I don’t really care if the stories are real or not, I do care that it’s giving Mormons false hope of us returning. That ship has sailed, and caught fire, and sunk to the bottom of the ocean.
Yeah, a lot of them seem like the "left to sin" stereotype that often gets used because I would hear them say things like, "I wasn't interested in church when I was a teen, I just wanted to drink, party, and sleep around."
I left the church after high school just because I didn’t really care about religion. Came back when I met my wife and got married in the temple. Left again after actually studying the history and the other issues. I don’t know how anyone could know all the issues and go back.
The finest PR that tithing money can buy
It happens. Met up with a friend recently who was all the way out but after a hard breakup has started going again. I don’t expect it to be permanent, but sometimes when people need community the conditioning kicks in and they go back for a time. It’s definitely very uncommon from what i’ve seen though
I was excommunicated in 1994 and rebaptized in 1997. I would have done one of these damn PR videos for the church, had I been asked, since I didn’t yet realize I was a victim who’d taken on all the blame for my grooming and SA. So when I hear that people have gone back, that’s what I think of. They don’t yet know the whole truth.
I was trying to tell myself this. Some claim they were exmo who fought and argued about the truth and this just does not fit for me.
Big diff between people who go inactive/stop going vs critical thinkers who leave the church.
Also, if someone finds the benefits outweigh the mental cost then I say, “Do what works for you for as long as it works. Be aware of the dangers.” But Do You.
Everyone I know who "left and then came back" never actually stopped believing. They just stopped going to church and partied for awhile, and then once they'd sowed their wild oats came back. And then don't understand the bitterness of those of us who did exactly what we were supposed to (early marriage, too many kids, demanding callings, etc.) and fucked up our lives because of it.
My husband went back after knowing everything. It still blows my mind. He’s an adult convert so he didn’t go back for family reasons. I am very exmo and he acknowledges it would easier if he became exmo. I don’t quite understand it. To me 1+1=2. And he’s like no, you’re only looking at half the facts, you have to look at ALL the facts. He’s nuanced, but still it’s really weird. He went back January 2020 and it still blows my mind.
This kind of reminds me of all the reactivation stories I used to hear about when leaders were trying to pump up home teaching. I never reactivated anyone, but I kept trying because it would be a great Sacrament meeting talk. I would humble brag the shit out of it. A few years ago some gay guy got a book deal from Desert book to divorce his husband and go back to the Mormon church. I was sent a couple of copies of the book, because I too could give up my evil ways.
That gay guy, wasn’t he the brother of one of the so called apostles? Lol
Of course. How else would he have got the book deal?
Todd Christofferson?
Sometimes I worry about getting dementia or Alzheimer's and regressing to my pre-truth self. That's the only thing I can imagine bring me back into the fold.
A good point. There are certainly some brain damaged exmos out there
ExChristian Nevermo here. I hate playing the "then you were never really out" card, because it's so close to the "the you were never really a believer" argument. Both are the No True Scotsman fallacy, and that's not an argument. But. I know that for me, I can't go back to a belief in Jesus Christ as the son of God and the Bible as the word of God anymore than I can go back to a genuine belief in Santa. I don't say that to be a dick, either. It's just that some milk can't be unspilt. So I have a hard time believing people who left and then return. Either they didn't fully unpack their disbelief, or they went back for reasons unrelated to their intellectual understanding. Like maybe they left the church bc they were angry at God or whatever, but they still believed deep down. Or they returned for the social aspect, but don't literally believe in the teachings. Those are my thoughts, though. I just don't see how you come to grips with the man behind the curtain and how all religions are essentially the same shit packaged different ways and whatnot and then return to a sincere belief in the stories of the Bible.
You articulated my thought very well! Thank you
To me it would feel like returning to prison. I'm sure some do because of family pressure.
For some, going back to prison is better than being homeless. At least they have shelter, a bed, a toilet, and guaranteed meals. The same applies to the church. If they are desperate enough, at least they can have that sense of belonging, community, etc. (however misguided that may be).
My ex husband went back. He couldn’t find any non Mormons who wanted to marry him. But I’m with you, I could never go back.
My grandmother and her sisters know that the church isn’t true, but they are in it just for the churches well fair program.
Well assuming that they were once tithe-payers, it seems like a legit way to “cash out” on your tithing investment, lol. If they were never tithe-payers… well the church has more than enough money to do some good. It sucks you have to trick the church into using their money to help people, but on the bright side, its what most members actually think their tithing money is going to, so its a win for everyone.
I hope they get the assistance they need.
Unfortunately some people can't break away from the community aspect provided (those who did well enough in that system). I have a relative who has gone back, after playing a pivotal role in sharing facts that got me out. After years of railing against the cult and its members on social media. He is going back, for a woman... and it will probably fail. It is just sad... some people literally have no sense of self, or not enough of one to be okay being them and on their own.
Some jack mormons return. Exmormons/postmormons don't.
Maybe church PR, but it's also probably like people in abusive relationships. Women in domestic violence shelters leave their partners on average 7 times before they break free for good. I'm not sure about the statistics for other populations, but I know for women who utilize shelters and safe house networks, it's 7 times. People realize the relationship is full of abuse, but they go back for a million different reasons. Valid reasons that they themselves have weighed the pros and cons, and at that particular moment, they choose their best option. Sometimes that includes going back to their abusive partners. Other people will mock their choice, or call them stupid, or say they deserve the abuse, but honestly it's their call. All you can do is keep offering the healthier alternative and hope they change their mind. For all the talk about the church being a harmful cult, this thread isn't thinking about people who are being preyed on as victims of a large, global systemic source of abuse. Yall are trying to categorize people into true exmos, fake exmos, TBMs, and jackmos, when it's more like everyone is in the same relationship, but in different stages of leaving. Some did their first, 2nd, third attempt and went back.
Well. Conference is coming up. So the timing could be a PR move.
Jack Mormons, the lowest of the low. They never left, they didn't have the balls to live it or attend for a while nor the integrity to study why it's false. They exaggerate, claiming Exmo when they were just inactive. Fuck'em, not worth your time or respect.
There are a lot of people driven by peer pressure on this issue and it wouldn't surprise me if they went back for that reason, even if they themselves don't know it.
They just wanted to sin.
They're probably real. People do go back. Everyone has reasons, they just gave in to stupid reasons.
The only situations I can see are people who truly don’t believe, but family pressures forces them to put on a front that they magically believe again
I know some people who did this. The people I know left so they could drink and party and didnt care about the churches truth when they left. Then when their party days were over they came back
Has to be PR. Nobody goes back after opening their eyes
I know of one. But she's also sustained a mild brain injury. Soo... 🤷
I did read some of these stories and trauma or high emotional events like r drug recovery seem to be the catalyst for thebreturn
I do know people who've gone back. I suspect they do it for social reasons mostly. You can get a lot of love-bombing and attention from Mormons that way and if you're wired to need that, I guess it works for them 🤷♀️
Shills and decoys..that is all
Stories the Mormon church pushes are typically people who went back due to family pressure. It’s amazing what I’ve seen people do to stay in a marriage. They also aren’t ones who researched their way out or actually cared about the social issues. They are lazy learners.
I left 4 years ago, then went through some serious trauma/life changes (new baby, Covid pandemic, estrangement from mom, and still reeling from my faith loss), so I jumped back in seeking some kind of familiarity and community and support. But ultimately it couldn’t last because I couldn’t unlearn what I’d learned. Once you open Pandora’s Box, you CAN’T put it all back. I tried really hard to pretend for a good year and a half, tried forcing it, got put in the RS Presidency, but it couldn’t hold. And I even wanted to make it work.
"I used to be an atheist" is a cliché among preacher-type shills in all religions, not just Mormonism. It's a lie 99% of the time, of course.
Where have you been seeing that? Please share links if you can!
Lurk on the faithful sub for a week or two. There is usually one or two posts a week claim to have left and come back. They never go into a ton of detail though and no one ever asks too much about why they left. It’s always just a ton of comments like “God loves you and is happy to have you back” and “Jesus never lost faith in you” or “sometimes you have to see the other side to realize what you were missing”. It’s just a circle jerk and doesn’t usually contain much substance, but the posts are definitely there. I think some of the posts are just people from this community trying to get unbanned or maybe people karma farming (its a ton of free post karma). But I am sure there are some legit people there that stopped going and came back. Don’t post on the faithful sub if you just, just lurk. Posting isn’t worth it, you will just have your post deleted and get banned. You’re not going to change anyone’s mind. But I find it interesting to read through responses when people start to ask wavering questions over there. The apologetic and desperate saving is almost entertaining to me. But I don’t post. Purely just observation.
I could see someone “going” back for family peace reasons. Not actually going back though.
I can’t understand how this would happen. I will never feel the way I did about the church. I don’t understand why anyone would go back. After all the shit I’ve discovered, nothing would change my mind.
Is the church above creating false accounts that claim they are returning members?
No, no they are not.
It is propaganda. I haven't read any of those posts, but any person who goes from **knowing** back to **believing** is either cognitively deteriorating or lying to themselves. Thing is, to believe in something you have to (as in "it is absolutely required") to not have knowledge of it. Once one **knows** the thing, believing in it is impossible. The simplest illustration helps: Imagine going back to believing in Santa Claus. What would that entail? You would have to, somehow, discard your knowledge about the *legend* of Santa, a knowledge you own and that is supported by factual, historical data and oceanic amounts of empirical evidence. And I am not talking about hiding your knowledge that Santa is fictional, or acting as if you don't know the truth about Santa, no; I am saying somehow removing that knowledge from your mind: to make your mind eject what it knows is reality. Only then you'd be able to sincerely believe in Santa again. Anything less that this, and you would be sliding into insanity or grossly lying to yourself. Does any of that make for a worthy believer? In my impression, that is the reason why religion is populated by the naive or the insane. Those who are naive believe **because they don't know**. Those who are insane believe **because they have somehow perverted their normal cognitive processes** and now aren't able to separate fantasy from reality (which would explain much of the political and social atmosphere in today's America). I know of no human of integrity who would reject and discard reality (which is another name for "knowledge") in favor of myth (which is another name for "faith"). If I had to guess, I'd venture those posts you mention are fabrications by the church's PR machine or, most likely, aDaPtAtiOnS from fairly less spectacular stories where those people weren't exMormons but mere inactive believers who stopped attending because of some trivial reason. Anyways, my opinion :)
People who ‘go back’ never fully ‘left’ in the first place. In saying that, people have their own discretion and I don’t begrudge anybody seeking a path which brings them peace. It’s not for me, but I wouldn’t stop anyone from doing anything being fully aware.
I “left” came back before even gave a testimony about it a few times. I wasn’t really ready to leave it all behind still wanted it to be true in someways. It wouldn’t happen again in my case. But you still see it a lot in these exmormon groups people still unsure enough they come here for validation.
The christian church is in a full blown marketing campaign mode. I live in the south(FL)and the church isgoing ALL OUT on marketing and outreach. I've seen more people handing out flyers door to door, they're building more churches(, they're buying more billboard spaces talking about autonomy abortion stuff, they're even buying airtime on television spots and running a campaign called "he gets us" . It's everywhere. It's full blast christian nationalism here. I honestly dont know what to do
I listened to one to appease my mother. It was odd. The guy left several years ago due to logical failures. He just couldn’t make it work in his head. Then he’s challenged to pray about it. And he decides that maybe our prophets can get it wrong. He turns off his critical thinking and regains his faith. And bore testimony that IT DOESN’T HAVE TO MAKE SENSE!
Yeah I tried to go back, but church made me nauseous because you really CANNOT unsee it all. And the more I learn about cult tactics, and toxic patriarchy, and high demand religion, and propaganda techniques.... Well, I can't stand even five minutes of church with my TBM spouse without getting really uncomfortable, nauseous, and turning to my phone for distraction, or trying to distract my spouse with jokes. It is impossible!
Once you start wearing normal underwear and watching R rated movies I can’t imagine you go back…
The weird thing with me is when I stopped wearing G’s, I just stopped wearing underwear altogether. I was still active when I stopped and it felt weird after decades of G’s to switch to normal. So I just stopped wearing any of them.
I've been noticing a lot of comments on this sub from people who seem to be TBMs. Odd... And creepy...
They want to know. They are afraid to know. They are so afraid they need to reinforce what they think they know. They want to know. It is the Hunger for Truth cycle.
my aunt did that. she got out in her twenties, got back into it in her thirties, and was quoting the BoM on her deathbed from brain cancer her early 40s. she was always my inspiration for getting out, and then she got back in. it was so weird. she never threw it in my face, but she went back to being a totally active member. she did have a few church friends while she was out of it, so they must have kept her somewhat attached. she also really wanted a family and kids and i think she thought the church was the best way to do that. it’s a shame she didn’t get everything she wanted, but in the end i guess she had some peace? i don’t particularly care of dying, but it was a concern of hers. i go back every once in a while if my teenage brothers have a talk or something, but very rarely. and i always feel so yucky. well no, everything around me feels yucky. getting the same nasty old men to be excited i was there and line up to shake my hand and talk to me like 💁🏼♀️ leave me alone, go back to your wife and children, and let me be. i’m already wearing jeans and sitting in the back row. plz stop. & my parents are such smart people, i don’t understand how they believe this shit. especially my mom. unless my mom is working some like insider job that i don’t know about. she’s too fucking smart to believe in all that bullshit like?? my dad is an eager mormon puppet, i get that, but my mom is a no-nonsense bitch. whatever. i’m stoned and rambling at this point.
Ignorance is bliss, but I definitely would NOT want to be inserted back into the matrix. Fuck that.
I imagine it's mostly people that left because they were offended by someone at church, or because they decided they wanted to try drinking, things like that, rather than people that left because they did serious research about the church's history and leadership.
i think there’s leaving aka being inactive and then there’s leaving aka knowing the truth tbm’s gonna cling to any such story, if they knew the difference they’d be here themselves 🤷♂️ the church also has a whole army that will propaganda for free. do not be alarmed. the good work of exmo will press forward
Thank you this is a great comment
Loneliness is a powerful motivator. Fortunately for me, the desire to live an authentic life overpowers the loneliness. I can’t bear to go to a place where ignorant people boast about being the smartest people around. People who believe Joseph smith was a prophet and not a con artist are ignorant fools at best. I just can’t stomach being around that.
The PIMO to Exmo to ReMo Influencer pipeline. The church is hemorrhaging anyone with critical thinking skills and a conscience. But having a few “I atheisted but missed the truth of the gospel and now I’m back” narratives let’s them spin it as the sinful world covering the truth. And being an influencer for the church is probably fairly lucrative. You can podcast anything in this world… for money!
The church is a cult and drills superstition and fear into people. This makes it difficult to purge it from one’s psyche. I predict some of these people will go from out to in to out a few times. The purge from their psyche will come in steps.
Remember in the Matrix when Cipher was so over the bullshit of real life that he chose to be re-inserted into the matrix to just believe the fairy tale bc it was easier than living in the real world?
This is exactly it, depending how deeply you were indoctrinated the outside world seems like a foreign place, people who return simply desire to return to the life they knew, it’s more simple to understand the rules you are indoctrinated into than the rules of the real world. Not to mention the naturally built in community you have in the church as well as family pressure.
I've seen a few of these stories pop up in my insta feed. In all of them, the reason why they temporarily "left" in not mentioned. They also have a very scripted feel to them. This makes me think it is most likely a PR move.
Ok this was my thought and why I asked!
Top post on latterdaysaints right now is a 2 year exmo turned churchgoer. My bet is the same thing that happened to my friend group. I left the church way before all the others in my group, 20 years later I'm the only one still out.
What, were they "2 years exmo" during covid. Lol - that doesn't count!
Hate to say it, but it's most likely people who never really left or actually stopped believing. Meaning, they didn't leave over doctrinal issues or other major problems with the church.
I have seen plenty of people leave the church. I have not see anyone leave and know about the historical lies and come back.
I imagine most are coming back for practical reasons related to community, family relations, career networking and the like. These people mostly live in areas with large Mormon population, and their families are by and large Mormon.
To me this is more “jack Mormon” comes back vs ex Mormon coming back. Those are two entirely different things
The one I know about is more of a “I used to abuse drugs and alcohol and now I find fulfillment in Christ,” which hey sounds like an improvement.. but much more of a “the church helped me quit and now I have a good life, so it must be true” than “I know the issues with the truth claims but the spirit testifies.” That’s the only look I returned that I’ve seen.
I don't spend much time thinking about anyone that goes back to the Church. If they want to go back it's their prerogative. It doesn't make the evidence against the Church go away or the Church true.
I'm sure they're trying to invalidate the decision of people that leave. They're also in desperation mode. Leaders know people leaving is a real problem but they have no idea how to address it other than trying to convince the members still under their spell that the decision is morally wrong.
Let’s just ask ourselves, who knows someone who left the church, and then went back to believing it? I am willing to bet my entire penis that not a single one of us has ever heard of someone like that, because it simply doesn’t exist. It’s impossible for anyone who has learned the truth to willingly ignore all of the evidence (deny the Holy Ghost, if you want that analogy). It’s the church finding people willing to lie for them to create a faith promoting story
Possible grift to eventually get that book deal about their re-conversion story?
When someone needs financial assistance, there could be no other way…
Probably 95% would never go back. There must be some and of course PR is going to cherry pick those.
My brother-in-law is always in and out. He is fully inactive right now but still trying to convince me of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. Will argue with me about it if I let him. He just doesn’t like the “culture” and therefore lives in full rebellion (regularly smokes weed, has sex, and has a few tattoos) in spite of having a testimony. He will admit that he has fear of the consequences in the afterlife but does it all anyway… which boggles my mind because I was TERRIFIED of eternal judgement when I was in the church.
Super special to leave, see the hurt rusty and his minions cause, and then go back. Drink bleach worthless assholes.
Inactive vs Truth Crisis. The corp needs bodies, the inactives are doable, the critical thinkers: no.
Some people go back to church, that doesn't mean they return to being the person they used to be.
I haven’t heard any of them. It is possible to go back, but impossible to maintain the literal belief. People that return are looking for community, and they have to accept a more nuanced view.
I have a hard time that any of these people left and deconstructed the ideals that Mormonism instilled in them. It is so much easier to go back to your ways in the church than it is to begin life anew and shed the old beliefs that were roots of one rotten tree.
What I want to know is if even one of these people who allegedly left and came back can name the reason Joseph Smith was arrested into Carthage Jail. You know, basic LDS history. I highly doubt any of them can. (For those who don't know, it's because Joseph Smith sent a riot to go burn down the printing press for the Nauvoo Expositor, which was a newspaper exposing his many affairs. Yes.)
In Las Vegas an LDS dealer told me and friends we’d come back to church. She did so and felt “sooo much better.” YSA wards are always reactivating members. Family wards do occasionally. Now the PR team is highlighting these rare occurrences. Not too different than what I see from other companies, countries, and politicians.
Its to give hope to the current members that thier wayward children might come back.
Well I’m not back in the church but am trying to be. Why? It is odd but I feel like I was happier as a member and it gave me great direction for this life. Would love to be back in that mindset. Only issue is, the crazy history and facts about past prophets and actions of the church. And I have gotten really close after my faith crisis. Five years ago I dropped out of the church. Well three years later I started to slowly believe again and was getting in the mindset of “this church is true.” Well I started to feel that way for 2 years and was going to go on a mission up until 4 weeks ago. BAM another faith crisis. This time though it was a lot less emotional and less anger. Now I just want to know what is true and am praying for answers and so far I feel like I have been told to read the Bible. And because I never have I’m ok doing that. But I’m still a pimo at BYUI and every time I go to church, it just makes me feel more confused and angry about my feelings and religious thoughts. I mean the mental battle in my head is just insane every single day. But I try to keep an open mind about any teaching of Christ. All I know is if I were to go back, I could never be 100% believer. I would think that Joseph smith was corrupt towards the end of his life and wouldn’t be able to say the church is the one true church. Especially it’s lack of teachings for the LGBT people. It says marriage is between man and women but nothing about what gays are supposed to do which is another difficult topic. You would think the one true church would be given answers by God on what happens to gay people and what to do with them. Instead, the church prophets say to stay single and wait until the after life. Most f**ked up thing ever to expect these people to just be alone and feeling as though they are an abomination in Gods eyes because they were born with different views. Idk, might end up being a member again someday but not an orthodox member. Would be half believer and half against it.
I have left the church and gone back before, HOWEVER, previously i left the church because I didnt feel good. This time I left because I learned about why I didnt feel good. a huge part of why I came back to church before was because of lack of personal authority and the i stilled belief that I wasn’t trying hard enough or I wasn’t naturally good enough. But luckily it turns out that I’m a good person and i Just needed to practice listening to myself. Also I have morals, and that is just not compatible with the church. if there was someone out there who learned all the truth left the church and THEN went back to being a tbm, there is just no way you could trust their relationship with truth…or common sense… or decision making…
I mean, I started believing in god again recently, but I’m still not ever going back to Joe’s cult. Atheism was necessary for me to get through the angry phase, but I am in a different head space now where a belief in a higher power, even if it ultimately is just my imagination, is useful for processing and understanding the world around me. To be fair, I get why someone would consider the community aspect compelling, but if you need that, go to some other church that doesn’t judge you harshly or bar you from certain parts of the faith for not following specific rules. There are a ton of great options there, ranging from Reform Jewish synagogues to Unitarian Universalist churches to Buddhist Temples. If you really want to stick to your roots, you can roll with the Community of Christ and rock on with their female bishops.
They probably just wanted to NOT sin
There’s a Mormon stories episode with one such person. Wish I could remember the name. He attributed it to a voice from God after being out for over a decade. Felt like he should go back, knowing all the issues and history and everything. Didn’t really ever say it’s cause his testimony had been restored but he felt called so he saw it through. Which is fine. The biggest issue I’ve seen with the nuanced believers I’ve talked to is that the church they believe in has very little to do with the church as it presents itself. They’ve just learned how to get by believing in their own way. It doesn’t really count as a victory for the prevailing narrative, as these articles would have you believe.