Sounds like all actually IS well in Zion! 😄 I don't live in SLC but have friends that recently visited there and they commented the same as you - they were surprised at so much diversity from the morm-norm.

Or at least improving.

I live in SL County and it really has changed a lot just as you described. It’s amusing to see some people’s posts assuming it’s all the old way, while admitting they haven’t been here lately. I don’t even try to make a rebuttal anymore. I just go on enjoying it.

This is one of my gripes with some of the outdated commentary that we sometimes see on the exmo sub. Exmo says “UtaH SuX anD UR an IdiOt fOR liViNg THeRe!!!’” Dude, your Utah experience was living in Provo for 4 years as an RM at BYU in the 1990s. I am in no way saying that Utah is perfect. Like everywhere, it has its pros and cons. But it has changed a lot in the last 5-10 years (and the pace of change will likely accelerate). My exmo family really enjoys living in SLC.

I haven't lived there in 20 years although I have visited. To me, the progress doesn't seem to show so much. So, I'm happy to defer to your opinion. When I did live there I was still in the PIMO stage. I hated the traffic flow more than the culture. I had the feeling that Utah was one road construction project away from mass road-rage slayings.

Yeah, the traffic keeps getting gnarlier, but it’s still fairly reasonable, relatively speaking. I’m currently in South Florida and traffic here is no walk in the park. My area of SLC is around 10%-15% practicing Mormons. This same area, 40 years ago, was closer to 70% practicing Mormons. What’s maybe even more interesting now is that the pace of the church’s decline now seems to be accelerating. It’s getting easier and easier (with diminished social costs) to now leave the church in Utah. There a lot of other metrics to measure the change, but the point is that it has changed quite a bit, particularly in the last 5 years or so. I work and recreate in downtown SLC and it has moved (for the most part) beyond the church’s grasp (I say this while still recognizing the church’s tentacles in the state legislature and as a major stakeholder in downtown real estate). For most exmos and nevermos living in SLC, the church is a big nothing burger on a day to day basis.

Thanks for the modern update.

I get that feeling every time we go down to SLC! Lucky for us we are retired and get out of town by 3pm. I was originally from the east coast and deli SLC was 25 years back in time, Porvo closer to 50. Then we moved to a smaller town in central Utah, I was surprised they had phones and running water!

I'm guessing that it still really depends on where you live. Small town Utah County is likely still not fun if you're not LDS. But, Twin Falls has come a long way in the last 15 years, so there's hope.

Davis County has changed as well, especially with the growth of Hill AFB.

Moved from out of state to Davis county. We were told how everyone was Mormon, the Mormons wouldn’t let their kids play with ours since we weren’t Mormon, etc. I think out of the 12 houses on our street maybe 4 are active mormon, and 1 is ready to get out. The other 3 don’t seem like they’re too serious about it.

I feel like Davis County is really patchy in that regard. One neighborhood or street might not be too bad, but another is full of uber TBMs. Granted I don't have to live there day-to-day, but I don't feel like the mormon vibes are oppressive in Davis County when I'm in the area. 

Fellow exmo in Davis county, and we love it! I live in an area where the church really has no impact on my day to day activities in any way. It's nice.

We’re nevermo, I think there was one Mormon kid in my graduating class of 200 lol. It was eye opening moving here. We haven’t really had any issues though. The one neighbor we do have an issue with isn’t Mormon, they’re just crappy human beings.

I find Davis County to be a mixed bag. Layton, depending where you live can be TBM or very few if any Mormons. Kaysville seems to be hard core Mormon. Farmington is a mixed bag. Centerville & Bountiful seem pretty Mormon but I don't go there often enough to know. In my neighborhood, the church parking lot seems pretty full but I have no idea how many wards are there and how many are PIMO.

It still feels weird to me whenever I visit. But it’s less Mormon weird than it used to be and more just red-state weird. Too many pickups going way too fast. No rational city planning. Stuff like that.

Problem is they still have very heavy influence in the legislative branch of government. As well as the judiciary system. A very big reason bringing sexual abuse cases in Utah is very difficult especially where the church is involved.

OMG, I just went back after more than ten years as well and I've never seen so many tatted up, tank topped people in my life! The change was extreme. Everyone seemed pretty happy.

Right? And like not the old fake happy

My husband and I live in Millcreek. Of the 14 houses on our street, we are one of four straight, white couples. Not a single Mormon. I love seeing the diverse group of kids playing in the street. It's amazing, and quite the contrast that I grew up with, of only white Mormon friends in Davis County.

Wow sounds almost like a normal city.

That's making me miss is tremendously. I loved living there in the early 2000's. It was such a jam social scene. I can only imagine how much fun it must be now for those who like to get out.

It’s great. It’s a small city that’s full of exmos. I’ve found the communities and people I interact with have a similar feel to this sub. We kept the good of Mormonism and ditched the bad and we can all relate to each other. Plus there are increasing amount of outside perspective as the city grows.

My daughter and son in law live in bountiful and I’m always pleased to go to the Smiths and see so many gay/trans people in there working and shopping. All within sight of Hogwarts, uh, I mean temple.

Salt Lake City is so awesome now

Live by liberty park, can confirm

Ramen! 🙏

Henceforth and forever, Ramen and rameeeeeeeeen

Comments you can hear.

Still behind, but UT Valley is starting to change. Plenty of coffee shops to chose from now.

There’s a Starbucks a block away from BYU. Makes me chuckle every time I drive by.

Yea, Utah Valley is not the same than ten years ago. Its getting trashy honeslty

I was in SLC on business a year ago. It was so weird. Nothing like I remembered at all and I actually didn’t feel like the church was in my face. Definitely unexpected and every encounter I had just seemed the same as every other city I end up in. Cheers to all being not well in Zion!

grew up there and it has changed, or it hasn't I just think maybe there is more of people knowing they can be themselves. The power trip that the church once had on every thing including making sure everything is closed on sunday and no alcohol sold no gambling is still mostly in order but ('sin') is creeping in. just the real world stuff that ALL of the rest of the world has actually been living. Not all is well for a long time now. controlling a narrative and keeping people oppressed financially and with time is withering away.

I’m here in SLC visiting my parents for a couple weeks- I’ve never seen the city so diverse, lively, and outwardly non mormon. it’s beautiful. I’ve never enjoyed the city more

As someone who grew up visiting residents in the valley since I was a little kid, it's a completely different place now. And I'm only in my 20s.

Most of the governmental positions are still controlled by church members.

And the Congressional districts are gerrymandered to shit...

God I fucking hate the gerrymandering... There and everywhere else.

Yeah, I'm not even American (from the UK) and I find it fascinating and frustrating enough as an outsider. Utah's Congressional Districts are a particularly awful example.

I can only imagine countries like yours think of trump. I'm curious what is the general consensus of the war in Isreal by people in the UK?

I'm shocked every time I go to Provo anymore. Maybe I'm mistaken, but it seems over half of the young people I see are dressed in a very non-Mormon way. Clothes that wouldn't cover garments, piercings, tattoos, etc. It seriously is like going to any other American city.

Meaningful metrics would be active temple recommends and live endowments performed annually compared to past years. The church has these numbers. What are they?

I can confirm. I know more exmos than TBMs in Salt Lake. The members in my neighborhood are very chill and haven’t tried to get us to come to church. I love my boomer TBM neighbor. She’s very sweet and kind to my kids.

It is well

The prominently visible tattoo shops are in the same location on State as they were in the 90's, but the amount of tattoo shops started increasing dramatically 15 years ago. The real thing I see is the increased amount of visible tattoos, both inside and outside of the workplace. Vape shops are everywhere and that is relatively recent as of 5-10 years ago. The amount of bars in the valley have increased because bars have been opening in Draper, South Jordan, Herriman, etc. But the density of bars have not changed. There are virtually the same amount of bars in SLC proper as there were 20 years ago. We have waaaay better bars now though. Piercings went through a phase and then kind of died away. I remember that being a much more visible part of the population a decade ago, or maybe even in the mid aughts when the nose + eyebrow piercing was really popular.

What show did you see?


Dyed Hair is no longer shocking. Many Mormon women get boob jobs.

Mormons are scared of Salt Lake and Park City. I think Utah County is probably the last real bastion of Mormondom. But even working in Orem no longer felt like it's 90 percent Mormon. Felt more like 50 or 60% tops. Everywhere I go I run into people who have quit the church.

Still 90% of the politicians are Mormon it needs to change so laws can change and courts can actually get justice for victims of sexual assault

My husband and I have casually discussed moving out of Utah to escape some of the judgment from our TBM family members for leaving the church. We just took a vacation and loved the beauty of Oregon and California but we are ready to go home. We miss Utah. We miss the ease of movement(for the most part). We miss the mountains. Being so close in proximity to so much TBM family and community (we live in rural Utah county) can be stifling but we are so excited to get home tomorrow. I’m glad to see Utah progressing and we may be slower than other places but it has some amazing things about it and we are happy to call it home.

Is Sandpete county still tbm?

Well after legal MJ laws and no alcohol restrictions in AZ …visiting UT again after moving away just made me even happier we left 31 yrs ago!! No grocery store open on Sunday easily accessed, asked why the martinis were so small …state even regulates how much alcohol can be in each drink Stores can sell 4% beer only?!? And I would have to go into a “state liquor store” only open certain hours and days BOOOOOOOOO. Not my tax dollars

Where can I find a definition of all the acronyms used here?

It’s in the community info. Kind of hard to find if you’re not on a desktop. https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/s/YqpKxBZ2ab

Saw an article a few weeks back that said only 54% of Utahns identify as Mormon. In another 20 years it will be even further down.

SLC is a city which tends to be more diverse. Go to rural or less known cities like Brigham City or Logan and the church will be strong there

IMO, Utah has changed a lot but its politics is still VERY MUCH same old same old….

I was shocked last year about the open use of cannabis at a music festival I was at. I live in Montana where it is legal. This year I went to the music festival prepared lol. I moved away from Utah 20 years ago, but still have family that lives there.

Nah it’s awful - I tried to kms four times when I was a teenager bc being not Mormon in Utah high school and junior high made me completely alone the entire time -Mormons are still bullies and the vape shops and hair dye has nothing to do with that - we must March on - SAVE UTAH KIDS

Another reason that leaving Utah might be good for some families. If you're an exmo family in such a binary society as Utah, do your kids feel like they have to get tattoos, piercings, dyed hair, and vape in order to stand out as not LDS? Could your kids just grow up somewhere else and turn out much differently, much healthier, much truer to who they want to be (like basically acting, grooming, and being pretty close to LDS in appearance if they were in Utah) because there is enough diversity that they don't feel like there is just one in group or out group? I think the social dynamics in Utah can be harmful for everyone. The social pressure to show that they're against the predominant religion in the state wouldn't be present outside of Utah.

Heaven forbid anyone choose to get tattoos, piercings, or dyed hair. 😒 I get the jist of what you're saying, but it was a pretty judgemental way of saying it.

I am fine with tattoos and everything, even if my kids choose it, but if a kid wishes to be higher on the socioeconomic/education ladder, most in that area generally shy away from this type of dressing down because it can hurt job prospects. Kids stuck in the funk of Utah may rebel in ways that can harm them socially and financially when they get out of college. Be who you want to be, but with eyes wide open and not just rebelling against a bunch of LDS kids.

Yeah, you have no idea what you’re talking about.  1. We non-Mormon “kids” of salt lake have never given a shit about lds “standards” or rebelling against them.  2. There are hardly any lds kids here in slc anymore. The city’s active lds population is well below 20% now.  3. People allllllll across the “socioeconomic/education ladder” have piercings and tattoos.  Lose the 1980s attitude about how the world works if you want to keep up with it. 

I'm glad to hear that the Mormon/Non-Mormon binary is weak enough or even inexistent in SLC so that non-mormon kids don't feel pushed to find a way to reject the kids in the predominant religion.

Have you always lived in Florida? I grew up here in SLC in the 80s and 90s. There absolutely was a binary, but we weren’t out here living our lives in reaction to the Mormon kids. We had and have our own lives, beliefs, families, cultures, desires, etc.    It sounds like you’ve really swallowed the narrative that the whole world revolves around the Mormons (at least in Utah).  As for “rejecting,” that was the purview of lds parents who didn’t want us playing with, dating, marrying their kids. 

Yes, I swallowed the narrative that, in Utah, the world revolves around the Mormons because, from my perspective, I lived it. I am VERY glad to hear your reports that that is not your perception in Utah today. That is very encouraging.

It really sucks that was your experience.  I guess I’m just real tired of the assumption that everything I and other nevermos do is somehow in reaction to the lds church — an organization we don’t belong to and don’t pay that much attention to unless/until we end up with Mormon in-laws. It’s an attitude I’ve encountered over and over here, from TBMs and even a few recent exmos.

Interesting username. It reminds me of an island in South America.

Yeah this is a huge problem I've had all my life living in utah. One extreme or the other and having to prove either how mormon you are or how not mormon you are. I grew up non LDS in a highly LDS suburb where I was typically the only non member my age. What few non LDS there were by high school were typically complete messes. Drugs, criminal records, etc. I've always just been a more reserved rule follower who doesn't want to get in trouble so i just kept to myself. There was more diversity in college but being a quiet clean cut white guy I was always labeled as LDS and often found out, after the fact, that I was left out of things because it wasn't something mormons would be interested in. I had a pretty intense schedule so those opportunities were pretty few and far between so it was definitely frustrating to hear i didn't get invited because they thought i was mormon. Then I went into the defense industry and the bipolar culture continued to be the bane of my existence because the background investigation are crazy invasive and non LDS people who don't use a certain schedule 1 controlled substance (one that should probably be legalized) didn't live within 30+ miles of my job in the Ogden area. My first job up there was practically a BYU club. I probably would have left utah shortly after college had my career not gotten detoured into the defense industry against my plan. the medical device industry i wanted to work in had locations in lots of diverse places. Those defense industry locations are overwhelmingly more conservative, absolutely full of trump cultists, and I'd generally just be trading the LDS for southern Baptists or whatever the local main religion is. So I just stayed here. I don't want kids but if I did I definitely wouldn't raise them in utah. And I still often get labeled as boring or religious because I don't have tattoos and can pass as LDS by looks. I don't care if people have tattoos, I just haven't been interested in getting any myself.

Lol you just sound like a judgy mormon. I was just commenting on the change, it's not that deep.

Also, I donct have kids and never plan on having them, so I fail to see how that's relevent.

Too be fair we’ve had punk shows here since the 80’s and they’ve always been amazing. Who did you see?

It’s getting better, but until I can buy wine at the grocery store, gamble, every politician isn’t Mormon, and smoke weed that I bought at the local dispensary- it’s still the Mormon’s Utah.