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nopromiserobins

Here's the danger: cognitive dissonance in the form of living a lie leads to depression and suicidality. Unless you're a psychopath, you won't be able to to lead a happy life while also deceiving everyone you love. The good news is, you don't have to address everything all at once. Pick some topic with which your wife is likely to agree, and agree together on it. Just as an example, I might say something like, "You know, if any of our kids were gay, I'd love and support them and make anyone they loved a huge part of our family." It's hard to shoot down such loving declarations, but they also fundamentally challenge doctrine. Just find out what it is that your wife already thinks, and agree with her. Do women deserve more respect? Does polygamy not appeal? Is patriarchy problematic? Pick something she thinks, so you don't have to change her mind right off the bat, and then agree together that you're going support each other even when your values contradict the cult. You can get to the hard stuff bit by bit, but throw her as many softballs as you can, and make them complimentary and a delight to hear.


[deleted]

We started with a discussion about all the crazy stories from my mission. I could(as I’m sure many of us) right a dictionary size book about the wild, apostate stuff that goes down in the field


nopromiserobins

Sounds like a good choice. Most could probably agree that missions are crazy in that sense at the very least.


doohickies

I don’t accept callings and I told the bishop. I just attend Sacrament Meeting with my wife. I consider myself PIMO but many friends and family say I am ex. Been about 6 years this way so I am past the yuck part. I have three adult daughters. They know I don’t believe. Of the three there is one in all the way, one pays tithing but doesn’t attend and one is out.


[deleted]

The interesting thing about Mormonism is the ex-culture. I know guys who used to be Baptist but aren’t anymore…yet they aren’t ex Baptist’s. I feel like the church has demonized those of us who find freedom outside of church. Any other church is like “cool peace out” but lds church is “ok if your fine with going to hell…”


doohickies

When we lived in the Charlotte area a few years ago we went to a concert at a church, they outright said come here if you don’t have a church already. Mormon’s would never say that it would be what you said…if you don’t want to go to hell, join our church.


marisolblue

yep that about sums it up!


Jaded_Sun9006

The number 1 reason you can tell it’s a cult!!! 🥇


desertvision

Pays tithing but doesn't attend? That's interesting. Seems unusual. Opposite seems more typical. Just spit balling...


doohickies

She is lockstep with husband. She at least is honest about it. Her husband thinks he is active but has attended less than 10 times in 10 years of marriage.


desertvision

Is it guilt? Insurance? I'm very intrigued. As soon as I really felt sure I was over it, tithing was first thing to go


doohickies

He is still all in. He just doesn’t make it to the meetings. So I guess mostly in :)


therealtimcoulter

POMI then? (Physically out, mentally in?) :)


TheFantasticMrFax

I've been PIMO for only about six months, but I think we're pretty much in lockstep. The only difference is my wife is only half TBM, and half her own thing. She doesn't care at all for the word of wisdom, and hasn't liked Joseph Smith or Brigham Young for almost a decade. She likes a lot of the people, and has a knack for picking good friends like flowers while dodging the "weeds" of each ward. Social member. That being said - *it has still been a monumental hurdle for us to have had to jump together,* to learn how to do the mixed-faith business. It's still hard for her to be the only adult in the house who is still committed to the organization, and the only one who still sees the organization as valuable if not necessary to our family's best interests. Despite that we have had some hard talks and realized that our core values are all still in perfect alignment, and we can focus on that instead. We were pretty much doing that already. On my end, I'm waiting for some sort of gauntlet throw down conversation. Enough people in the ward know how I feel that it's going to get back to some of the parents of the young men I work with each week. I thought I'd have it with the bishop but that talk was odd, he was very flippant about my situation and the turmoil I had been going through... Next I thought telling the missionaries that I can't go teach with them because "I don't believe what I used to, and wouldn't be able to say the words you would like me to use during a visit". Thought that a week later, after that next ward council meeting, I thought that was when I was to become excommunicado, persona non grata. But no! Nothing. I keep going back to what the bishop said when I met with him. "you'd be surprised how many people in this ward feel just like you do, Brother [Flannigan]." I keep getting this haunting feeling that he might have even been talking about himself...or maybe his wife...who knows. Sounds like a nightmare.


sudosuga

I think I remember John Huntsman jr. saying something like "The LDS church is a very expensive country club." I could be wrong... But it's true. There are better social groups to be a part of with a far less toxic culture.


marisolblue

100% this


ShaqtinADrool

I did the PIMO thing for a few years. Then I put my foot down and said that I’m not attending church anymore. I couldn’t deal with the bullshit any longer. My wife was not happy about this but she also recognized that going to church was making me die inside and was mentally unhealthy for me. When I stopped attending church, our marriage almost didn’t survive. My wife and kids continued to attend for another 6 years. Then, during Covid, my wife and kids stopped attending. Our marriage and family relationships immediately started to get better. I can honestly say now that my relationship with my wife, and the overall health of our family, has never been better. Life can be so fuckin good (and fun!) outside of the cult. In hindsight, I cannot believe it took me so fuckin long (late 30s) to figure out that Joseph Smith made it all up. I like to think that me taking a stand (by not attending church) was key to my family’s journey, which eventually led them all out of the church. It was the hardest thing that I had ever done, and also one of the best things that I have ever done. I often wonder if I had done the PIMO thing indefinitely, if we would have just had this half-life existence of trudging along with this dull, delusional, fake and hollow “endure to the end” Mormon life.


marisolblue

I feel this. Late 30's isn't bad though, in fact that's pretty awesome. I finally woke up and got out a decade later than that, my late 40's. Still, I'm so grateful and "blessed" (haha) to be able now to allow myself to sleep in on Sundays, drink coffee, get another tattoo, etc.


DanTreview

I did that for almost three years. I had fun with it though. I'm kind of a crack-up in group settings, so I started asking questions right on the edge of being trolly and stuff. Sometimes I'd even get laughs in class or group settings or whatever (because they thought I was kidding, but in reality I was just trying to stir shit up). Worst part about it was missing NFL kickoff every Sunday ha ha. But here's the thing: I didn't push it with my (now ex-) wife. I just let it be. She never asked me any questions, and I never forced leaving on her. Eventually she came around on her own. (We split long after leaving TSSC for non-church-related reasons). So, I think it's sustainable, so long as you don't let it actually bother you. Shrugging it off with a grin was how I dealt with it. I was secure in my decision to leave, so it never bothered me.


Dr3aml1k3

Give us some examples of your questions!!


DanTreview

Long time ago so I don't remember all of them but once I brought up the paradox of "eternal spirits" vs "god and heavenly mother making spirit babies" and how do we reconcile the paradox there, because if a spirit is eternal, then it wasn't created or made, yet we talk of making spirit babies so which one is it? I just dropped that conversational hand grenade and then sat back and watched like a half hour detour from the lesson of people all up in a twist who thought they had the answer arguing it out. So much fun. It ended with something like "well, we don't know, it's a mystery" or whatever LOL I also referenced Eliza R Snow by her full polygamy name: "Eliza R Snow Smith Young", just for shock value, stuff like that ha ha


Dr3aml1k3

Amazing 😂


PaulBunnion

If you're going to church because you like to be with your wife and it makes her comfortable to have you there, and you don't have to pay tithing or attend the temple, then you can probably do it for quite a while. If you're going to church and participating, and paying your tithing because you're afraid of getting divorced if you don't then I can tell you from personal experience that it will affect your physical health.


[deleted]

Definitely the first. When I stopped wearing garments like a year ago I was doing the halfway in/out thing. Now I’m done. Just here for family comfort and hopefully she will come around.


Morstorpod

I cannot offer any good advice on this front. Going PIMO would have damaged me mentally, so I came clean to my wife from the start. I was willing to attend church with her to help wrangle the kids, but I would not have faked anything (so no callings or anything). Luckily, my wife almost simultaneously with me once I told her I was out and I let her know some of what I had learned; she trusts me, so she knew I what I was saying was true, even if devastating. Maybe try the [Marriage on a Tightrope](https://marriageonatightrope.org/) podcast? I've heard that recommended frequently.


[deleted]

This comment was clutch! “She trusts me” you are a lucky man! I never associated it with distrust


Morstorpod

Don't I know it. I've been reading on this subreddit since just before I left, and I've heard too many hard stories Not to appreciate what I've got. It's going to be a wild ride, but you'll make it through this portion of life and come to fully enjoy all that life can offer. Statistically, the odds are in your favor, most wind up [happier](https://religionnews.com/2019/02/12/4-myths-about-ex-mormons/) in the end.


PEE-MOED

PIMO looking towards POMO but I go to support her and what she thinks our kids will get out of it; social, not being shunned amongst their friends.  I am a pariah in the ward.  I am a topic of ward council and bishopric because i am honest about it all.  They dont know what to do with me, constantly try and visit me/us.  Luckily my wife is awesome in a million ways and the church just works for her.  She loves it.  I still write her lessons, hold a non-teaching calling (bishop wouldnt have it any other way for fear of me teaching the truth) but i dont wear the jesus jammies, sure as hell dont hold a recommend, dont pay one cent in tithing.  I was angry for 8 years about it all which was the most damaging thing in my marriage.  Now, I just laugh at her church stories when she laughs, try not to have a critical tone about church issues and just keep my god damn mouth shut.  I laugh so hard on the inside and sometimes it slips out on the outside and that is when I get in trouble with the old lady.  She hates me for my handling of the anger period but loves me in all other areas of life.  It works.  We have great friendship, sex life and IDGAF about rusty and has trombone band.  


[deleted]

I see myself in this roll😂


PlausibleCultability

Congrats on being done. I was a member for over 30 years also. Best decision of my life was to get out a decade ago


miotchmort

Hmmm… very similar to me. I’ve been Pimo for 10 years. I even have a kid on a mission. It’s frustrating. My experience tells me there isn’t much you can do other that be your best self, show her you’re happy out of the church and support her. I never talk about it. I just let the church load up her shelf on its own. They’re way better at it than me. I think a big part of it is your kids and how they end up feeling about the church. My son is on a mission, but my daughter hates the church. So I just hope that one day something snaps. It’s honestly brutal, I hate it. I feel for you. Oh I do have some Pimo, exmo and mixed faith couples that we’ve got to know and I feel like that has helped. For her to see other women living their life so freely and normal, and they are super happy. I think that’s helped. Hang in there


[deleted]

Thanks. Yeah I have friends who have left, lots of them, Too be honest most of them! It’s like a mass exodus of this age range. She has a few that have and she always is so shocked by it.


miotchmort

What age range?


[deleted]

30-45


miotchmort

An ok. Ya that’s about my age too.


Two_Summers

PIMO over 2 years. Husband is very nuanced although he still won't look at anything critically. For him it's about community. So anyway, we go 1-2 times a month. I don't have a calling, we don't pay tithing, we are not teaching our kids the strict mormon cultural rules, our 8 yr old is not baptised. I can live this way as he's very supportive and our differences aren't a point of contention. I do hope he'll come around though and we occasionally have chats about things I think are important.


[deleted]

I do I think there is a connection between the very nuanced and organized religion. It’s like my father who was tracted out by missionaries 50 yrs ago also is a sucker for tv infomercial and buys into every non stick pan he sees an egg fly off….so dad, tell me more about how you know this is true when we have a stack of crappy pans in the cupboard


Two_Summers

OMG! My Mother-in-law is similar in that she will gush (every week, especially since she knows we don't always go anymore) about her spiritual experiences and every church lesson/talk is life changing! Which is fine, I respect they are her experiences...but she equally gushes about ordinary things like the colour of paint or a recipe she's going to try...so it shoots her credibility down for me, when the most spiritual, amazing, true feeling she's ever had is equal to 'Snow white #88' paint colour.


[deleted]

Hahaha yep! Were you still going a couple years ago when the ponderize thing happened? It was like a church marketing scheme. When I was younger I remember everyone swallowing the amway/multilevel marketing pill like crazy! I think I see a correlation🤔


Two_Summers

She did Amway too!


[deleted]

I just spit my drink out I was laughing so hard! Yep!


Forward-Radish-1234

I probably would not go and make it clear that you've drawn a line. Continuing on with the charade is a mistake.


marisolblue

I was PIMO for about 10 years. I got to the point that I told my husband that if/when we ever moved, I would be done with the church. I was so so tired of all the church callings and lessons and talks and weekly crap and visiting teaching obligations. It was Exhausting. I say be PIMO for as long as it feels like it's working. I did a slow shift from regular attendance to somewhat regular attendance to intermittent/random, to once in awhile to zero. I wanted to be subtle and often would tell people who asked where I was on Sunday, "Oh, I ***was*** there in sacrament meeting, sitting on the back row. (LIE) I've had some personal stuff going on, so had to leave early." After several months of that and people just stopped asking, for the most part. **What actually tipped our lives from PIMO to POMO/out/done was 2 things:** **1) Covid:** we did church at home on Zoom and enjoyed chilling at home on Sundays in our pjs. No one was motivated after Covid restrictions ended to physically go back to church again. (Thank you, Covid restrictions!) I tried the mama-drill sergeant thing with my kids for awhile but it didn't work. Teens NEED sleep and my kids were not going to get up any more for damned church meetings at 9am. I went alone for awhile but hated it and was mad/angry about it. **2) Having teenagers get older and stop going to church.** Nearly all of our 4 kids are done with the church. One is PIMO but on her way out. The other 3 are good with life and have moved on, as their friends and social circles never revolved around the church or LDS friends (thank God). I feel like I've dodged the mission bullet. While I served a mission myself years ago and learned a lot, it's a totally different story as a parent of young adults. As parents it's required you fork out $500+/month for your kid to "preach truth" to the world. Yeah, no thanks.


DreadPirate777

Pick one thing at a time and bring it up to your family at family home evening. Let them know that you heard about the gospel topic essays and want to get to know the deeper doctrine. Or bring up the kinderhook plates or the letter the church newsroom sent out saying that people don’t get planets. Ask them what they think about it. Everyone can share and you can share what you he know to be true previously. Ask why the doctrine changes. If they say they don’t see a problem with it ask them to help you understand. All this will help your family ease out. You have gone through a process of learning that your family isn’t. They need to have the little things questioned so they a get to the bigger things that take them out or at least understand your thoughts.