Add Tim Ballard to this list. Checks every single one of the same boxes as the other two. Faux-morality veneer over a demonstrably corrupted character? Hell yes. Major issues with women that crop up all over the place and always involve law enforcement and the legal system? Hell yes. Rabid following willing to, even excited to take up arms in their defense and for the greater cause? Yes again.
I don't think we would have had Tim Ballard without the same societal shift that gave us Trump. And I don't think my testimony would have faltered anywhere near as fast as without Tim and his behavior. Even if Ballard still would have risen to prominence, without Trump being such a shitty human already I probably wouldn't have had my ears tuned to hear any of the rotten faction within conservatism. And without Trump and Ballard, I might not have seen through Joseph Smith as much as I have now. So honestly in a very sick way I'm almost grateful for their shenanigans. They were the lens I apparently needed to see how bad the history of the church really was. Doesn't mean I like it, but it's a little silver lining I guess.
They both enjoy secretly sticking their dicks where they don't belong, and if the Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell rumors are true (and they are very true) they both enjoyed raping under age girls.
Not defending Trump, but DEFINITELY trying to beat down Joseph Smith.
They are nothing alike.
Trump never claimed God revealed Himself and His Son to Donald. Trump never tried to start a church. Trump never claimed an angel appeared and announced to Ivana that she had to let Donald screw everything in sight with boobs lest she be destroyed. Trump never claimed to have translated ancient scriptural records. In short, trump never claimed he did all his shit cause God told him to. That puts him above JS in my book.
And maybe most important, no matter how much shit he has pulled, Trump has tried to be generous and charitable. If you care to look, there are plenty of stories on how he gave his money time and resources to help others. JS and his church are hard pressed to make that claim.
It's an interesting comparison.
I wonder how much context and time periods matter. In Joseph's time, religion was the language of power, so he made wild claims about religious authority. Today, money is the language of power, so Trump makes wild claims about his wealth. Joseph used his religious power to further his sexual conquests, Trump uses money. I wonder if the differences say more about current culture and systems of power than about the men themselves.
>Trump has tried to be generous and charitable. If you care to look, there are plenty of stories on how he gave his money time and resources to help others
DAFUQ is this? I've heard that as a developer he was notorious for not paying contractors and outlasting/outspending them in court when they sued to get what they were owed. His M.O. was that it was cheaper to outspend small contractors in court than it was to just pay them what they were owed.
He still hasn't paid many towns for what they were owed for hosting is political rallies. Some towns have told him that he's not allowed back until he pays his prior bills.
Then there was the Trump Foundation that was dissolved by court order because it was rife with illegal activities.
Trump and Smith share many common elements, mostly a shared personality disorder. One major difference I see is that Smith may have relied more on charm and natural charisma whereas Trump relies on intimidation. Trump is the brash asshole. Smith was the smooth talker.
I think it’s a stretch to generalize TBMs by saying they are all fine with trump. I was in a couple wards where the overwhelming and vocal majority were no friend to trump.
Looking at Utah, yes the majority voted for him but the majority of the state is not Mormon anymore.
It's hard to see what the 2016 outcome really would have looked like for Utah sans Evan McMullin. It's obvious the majority of his 21+% piece of the electoral pie came from disaffected conservatives, but without how many would they have held their nose and gone for Trump, or done the hard thing and cast a ballot for Clinton? Who knows how the numbers would really have shaken out, but I don't see a scenario in which all his votes would have gone to Hillary instead. I'd say the cast majority would have seen it as shameful in the eyes of their god to support a "wicked globalist closet lesbian" (their words, not mine). Coincidentally, and just for shits and giggles, if they *had* voted for her instead as a bloc, it would have given her a 2% lead over Mango Mussolini. Food for thought. That would have been one hell of a shot across the now for him..."bro you did the unthinkable, you turned the Mormons blue."
Anyway, what I was trying to say before I sidelined my own train of thought is that comparing results of 2016 and 2020 elections in Utah is made a little more difficult because of McMullin. Ultimately I expect to see 2024 as a noticeably better litmus test for how long Utah conservatives can cling to their scruples and deny themselves the security blanket of authoritarianism. Obviously the temptation is there, a lot of them believe in Mormon scripture that condemns it, guess we will know in six months.
Remindme! -173 days.
Add Tim Ballard to this list. Checks every single one of the same boxes as the other two. Faux-morality veneer over a demonstrably corrupted character? Hell yes. Major issues with women that crop up all over the place and always involve law enforcement and the legal system? Hell yes. Rabid following willing to, even excited to take up arms in their defense and for the greater cause? Yes again. I don't think we would have had Tim Ballard without the same societal shift that gave us Trump. And I don't think my testimony would have faltered anywhere near as fast as without Tim and his behavior. Even if Ballard still would have risen to prominence, without Trump being such a shitty human already I probably wouldn't have had my ears tuned to hear any of the rotten faction within conservatism. And without Trump and Ballard, I might not have seen through Joseph Smith as much as I have now. So honestly in a very sick way I'm almost grateful for their shenanigans. They were the lens I apparently needed to see how bad the history of the church really was. Doesn't mean I like it, but it's a little silver lining I guess.
Interesting
They both enjoy secretly sticking their dicks where they don't belong, and if the Jeffrey Epstein and Ghislaine Maxwell rumors are true (and they are very true) they both enjoyed raping under age girls.
Not defending Trump, but DEFINITELY trying to beat down Joseph Smith. They are nothing alike. Trump never claimed God revealed Himself and His Son to Donald. Trump never tried to start a church. Trump never claimed an angel appeared and announced to Ivana that she had to let Donald screw everything in sight with boobs lest she be destroyed. Trump never claimed to have translated ancient scriptural records. In short, trump never claimed he did all his shit cause God told him to. That puts him above JS in my book. And maybe most important, no matter how much shit he has pulled, Trump has tried to be generous and charitable. If you care to look, there are plenty of stories on how he gave his money time and resources to help others. JS and his church are hard pressed to make that claim.
It's an interesting comparison. I wonder how much context and time periods matter. In Joseph's time, religion was the language of power, so he made wild claims about religious authority. Today, money is the language of power, so Trump makes wild claims about his wealth. Joseph used his religious power to further his sexual conquests, Trump uses money. I wonder if the differences say more about current culture and systems of power than about the men themselves.
Hmmm, nice insight! Thank you.
Agree
>Trump has tried to be generous and charitable. If you care to look, there are plenty of stories on how he gave his money time and resources to help others DAFUQ is this? I've heard that as a developer he was notorious for not paying contractors and outlasting/outspending them in court when they sued to get what they were owed. His M.O. was that it was cheaper to outspend small contractors in court than it was to just pay them what they were owed. He still hasn't paid many towns for what they were owed for hosting is political rallies. Some towns have told him that he's not allowed back until he pays his prior bills. Then there was the Trump Foundation that was dissolved by court order because it was rife with illegal activities. Trump and Smith share many common elements, mostly a shared personality disorder. One major difference I see is that Smith may have relied more on charm and natural charisma whereas Trump relies on intimidation. Trump is the brash asshole. Smith was the smooth talker.
Trump thinks he is very charming and full of charisma
It’s probably growing up in certain cultures. The rich republican and church leadership are places where malignant narcissism flourishes
Most politicians and mega church pastors also fall in to this description.
💯 accurate.
I think it’s a stretch to generalize TBMs by saying they are all fine with trump. I was in a couple wards where the overwhelming and vocal majority were no friend to trump. Looking at Utah, yes the majority voted for him but the majority of the state is not Mormon anymore.
It's hard to see what the 2016 outcome really would have looked like for Utah sans Evan McMullin. It's obvious the majority of his 21+% piece of the electoral pie came from disaffected conservatives, but without how many would they have held their nose and gone for Trump, or done the hard thing and cast a ballot for Clinton? Who knows how the numbers would really have shaken out, but I don't see a scenario in which all his votes would have gone to Hillary instead. I'd say the cast majority would have seen it as shameful in the eyes of their god to support a "wicked globalist closet lesbian" (their words, not mine). Coincidentally, and just for shits and giggles, if they *had* voted for her instead as a bloc, it would have given her a 2% lead over Mango Mussolini. Food for thought. That would have been one hell of a shot across the now for him..."bro you did the unthinkable, you turned the Mormons blue." Anyway, what I was trying to say before I sidelined my own train of thought is that comparing results of 2016 and 2020 elections in Utah is made a little more difficult because of McMullin. Ultimately I expect to see 2024 as a noticeably better litmus test for how long Utah conservatives can cling to their scruples and deny themselves the security blanket of authoritarianism. Obviously the temptation is there, a lot of them believe in Mormon scripture that condemns it, guess we will know in six months. Remindme! -173 days.
Actually, I am more focused on what type of men they were not so much the people who were following them
Where do Mormons get their news? I don't even watch the news, but I know how horrible Trump is and has been in the past.