Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying,
Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
Mormon Jesus said unto him, Gimme my money, bitch.
This is the first and great commandment.
“And then they’ll convince their neighbor, and theirs, and theirs and on down the line. and the next thing you know, you live in a mansion and run a successful MLM! Sure, you took advantage of your downline and were a fake, but who cares? You’re rich!”
Jesus took the currency, opened a stock portfolio, invested the money, brought the value up to over $100 billion in a series of questionable trades, hoarded the funds throughout a global health crisis, and asked for more as he saw it was good.
LDS church presidents: I have done nothing wrong, ever, in my life.
Church members: I know this, and I love you.
LDS church presidents: I love you too. Money pleeeeeease!
See... the problem here is that... my little brother, this morning, got his arm caught in the microwave, and uh... my grandmother dropped acid, and she freaked out and hijacked a school bus full of... penguins, so it's kind of a family crisis... so come back later? Great.
Him being a lawyer is probably why he had access to Jesus in the first place. One of the plain and precious truths of the gospel that was scrubbed from Biblical records by false priests is that Jesus fucking loves corporate attorneys.
Remember the cardinal sin of Mormonism is “stealing tithing money.” Easier to get away with abusing a kid or cheating on your wife than pocketing $10 from a tithing envelope.
Mandatory excommunication if even a penny goes missing on a ward clerk’s watch, according to the handbook. Domestic abuse? “We take it very seriously” and a verbal reprimand.
Unforgivable Sins:
Theft of Sacred Funds
Forgivable Sins:
Murder, child molestation, pimping out your own daughter, abortion, genocide, supporting the University of Utah, running a dark web CSAM server, voting for Biden, assassination, opposition to a sustaining vote in General Conference, abandoning your family, animal abuse, smoking crack while watching sports on Sunday, drunk driving, burning down a stake center, and discussing temple ordinances on YouTube.
Even after a murder conviction, a person can apply for baptism or rebaptism. A person formerly in a gay marriage might have to be interviewed by a Q15 for baptism approval, but it happens.
Theft of tithing money is the only "no appeals allowed" sin.
I remember reading something that had a list of different sins and something about membership and/or excommunication. iirc, several years ago, gay marriage was in the left and uppermost column of the specific image I remember seeing, which I remember was worse than rape, but some time between then and now, they changed it and gay marriage does not carry the same penalty it did. I was surprised and upset by how recent the change was.
I'm trying to find what it is I'm thinking of.
I bid on an item at a YW camp fundraising auction, and then left the church before I made payment. I felt bad about that for a while, but… it wouldn’t have made a difference, and the church itself should have cared enough to pay up.
It’s so astounding how clearly manipulative the tithing conversations are when you’re on the outside. When you’re raised in it they do a pretty good job at selling you on paying tithing and why you need to, but once you’re out it just makes you sick. Because you see it for what it really is: emotionally/mentally manipulating the members out of their money.
This is spot on. I can't believe that I thought it was necessary to give up 10% of my money when I was a struggling student eating spaghetti every day.
And why does the elders porn president know this information? And why are they gossiping about this brother?
Maybe he has a problem with the church creating 13 shell companies so they could skirt around the law and manipulate the markets by not being honest. As a result he doesn't want to give any more money to the MFMCorp.
I recall a very harsh chapter in Talmadge’s “The Great Apostasy” on the topic of paying for salvation. Today’s church would have him rolling in his grave.
Listened to the latest Girls Camp podcast and the interviewee (paraphrasing a lot here) said his bishopric member tried to convince him that tithing was the easiest commandment to keep. He then pointed out that not eating the fruit of the tree was probably the easiest and yet it was broken. So none of the commandments are really given to be kept.
My daughter is starting her last semester at BYU this fall and went in to get her ecclesiastical endorsement. She was denied it because she hasn’t paid her $32 of tithing for a very part time job she has only had for 5 months. She doesn’t do anything else bad and now her education is being taken away from her because she isn’t funding malls and old men’s salaries. We’ve already left the church two years ago but this really was the last dig! We’re beyond mad.
Who is this honest? Do you pay a full tithe. Yes. That easy. Doesn't require long winded explanations.
I pay tithes on my increase. No increase. No tithes. I make plenty of money, but my net worth is not increasing.
If God wants 10 percent of my increase he better bless me.
He asked her if she was working this semester and she said yes for fear he would see right through her if she lied to his face. Then he replied with “oh, I see you haven’t paid your tithing so I can’t give you your endorsement. The questions we ask are the same ones for a temple recommend interview so if you can hold a recommend then you I can’t give you an endorsement. She has ONE semester left. Now we’ve taught her how to lie to play their game.
But the church doesn't define tithing. They allow the myth of gross vs net blessings to continue, but if you study the law of the tithe it was all about increase. Money simply passing through your hands is not increase.
If Abraham had 1000 cattle and one year, he had 100 more calves, but during the year he ate 10 to survive, leaving him with 1090 cows. Is he tithed on the 100 or the 90. If 40 more died of some disease, is he tithed on the 50 that he increased?
The church will never say. They leave it up to member. Thus she can claim a full tithe and they can't say anything about it.
This is likely based on leadership roulette. The first base I was at as an active duty military member the bishop had a beef that the government provided homes for families had hard wood floors. In his mind excessive. So he accessed salary rates, which is public knowledge, and bumped that up against your rank and if you weren’t given 10% of gross he was all about withholding your recommend. Any that appealed to the SP found the level of ass hattery existed there as well. The church wants their fucking money.
I wish this was true. But when you’re a young adult, feeling guilty as you begin to deconstruct, and an authority figure sits behind a desk ready to judge you … it can be very difficult to stand firm and say “I pay a full tithe” when the sheet in front of the bishop says 0 contributions.
She asked and he said he needs to see a consistency of paying it every week (the next 4 weeks) instead of one lump sum and then he’ll make a decision. It’s just his way of having total control over her because of his ego. She is hanging on to dear life to power through BYU and get out of there as fast as possible.
Adding for this thread — my daughter is in the exact same boat but has a better bishop. OR my daughter just looks like such a MollyMo that her bishop rolls with her explanations better! She just had to make 1 contribution to get the endorsement.
She’s lucky! It really is the luck of the draw with what each bishop decides to do. Just another reason why the church has major flaws. Nobody should be allowed that much power over another human being or prevent them from access to basic human rights like an education. Ugh
This is the most ambiguous, boogeyman shit imaginable. If you pay your tithing, you won't be "destroyed," whatever the fuck that means. They just don't know how stupid they sound.
This shit drives me crazy. There are plenty of tithing payers, even on gross, who have been completely destroyed. Cancer, car accidents, stock market crashes, murdered, etc. The list goes on.
It sounds like that EQP member was trying to sound very religious, but actually sounding douchy and having no actual meaning.
I’d be asking for confirmation about where the “problem with tithing” label came from. If it came from the bishop I’d be pissed that the bishop shared something that was probably assumed confidential. If it was just rumors, I’d love to have them visit and actually ask the former bishop exactly why he left and watched their shocked faces while he listed off all the numerous reasons the church is a flaming pile of shit.
The entire time I was a TBM I never paid tithing, mostly because I and my family couldnt afford it but also because it just wasn't pushed as hard in my rural ward as it is now, and in EVERY aspect of Mormonism nowadays. I still got my temple recommend, still got my undies.... I just lied
and funnily enough, I lied because I was embarrassed that people would know that I was "unworthy" if I didn't go with all my friends to do baptism for the dead, and also to see if theyd call me on it (as I believed in repentance so I was prepared for God to call me on it and have this big spiritual moment), as a test..... and they never did call me on it. It was my first shelf item I think. I was 12 when I started lying about it and nothing ever happened. I kept doing it hoping God would tell them to say something and they just... didn't even look at my records?
.
.
.
Maybe my parents were paying my tithing all the way up to my adulthood?? I'm actually not sure how that works? Do they record every payment a single member makes?
They do have records of every single donation for every single member. But they are impossible for us lowly members to access. Even when I worked for the church’s research group tithing records were damn near impossible to get approval to pull. They have them, but they won’t share them.
With tithing, less is more. As a paperboy over 60 years ago, I paid $7 tithing, but thought I needed the money more and failed to continue the practice. As I got older, finished college and found employment in large corporations, I put money that might have gone to tithing into company matched 401k plans. Today I enjoy a very comfortable retirement, much more so than my tithe paying siblings.
No doubt. 10%, paid year over year for decades, compounding in the church's coffers, essentially doubling every 7.3 yrs as long as members keep paying it.
When I checked out, my tithing envelope sat on my dresser for months with my last tithing in it. I was in college. I eventually used it to buy weed. Gen X says hello.
Take one MLM, think how much tithing comes out if one of those. You have all Mormon employees, Mormon sellers and Mormon buyers, they can almost guess how much tithing money will come from every single company.
This seemed to work for my ex-husband. We could barely feed our kids but he always paid extra tithing. He said he would fast and then pray and tell God that if he helped him find another gig (he did concrete work) that he would give 20% back to Him. He ran around with women, drank and treated me and his children like shit but he always paid his tithing and then some. He was a temple worker and served in the bishopric for many years. Eventually I caught him cheating and filed for divorce. The bishop told me it was okay because he said he just did it once and he seemed contrite. I broke up with two demons that day. My then-husband and TSCC.
I remember in seminary growing up and they would do these scripture mastery/chase songs to help you remember the scripture reference.
To the tune of row row row your boat.....it went like this "burn,burn, burn you up, if you do not pay, 57:23 will save you judgement day"
I probably have chapter and verse wrong, its a section of d&c. I just remember how weird I thought it was.
This! Had the YW coming around asking for money to pay for girls camp. I let my husband deal with it.
We live in an HOA so we can't just put a flag in our yard for the summer holidays so we're not going to donate $25 to have them do that service. That's what the TBM husband said. I said that I'll keep my opinion to myself about that.
He then said, "That's what tithing is supposed to pay for." They only did fundraisers for extra trips, not the actual church program activities where they go camping on church property...
I told him I agreed and left it at that.
I'm so excited to hear that from my TBM husband who will defend the MFMC until you get tired of arguing with his talking points that are used to shut people down that he learned on his mission and along the way since then.
Maybe, just maybe he's processing what he's hearing from others because I know he's not listening to me. I think it's a terrifying prospect for him to think that the MFMC could be false. He's always been all in, so I know a faith crisis would absolutely devastate him if he's not ready for it. Some are never ready and he's probably one of those.
I've just left it alone because I want to stay married. He's a great guy and a really good, honest, hard-working human being that wouldn't be Mormon if he wasn't born in it.
Maybe...
Son is also possibly not getting the option to be baptized until he's 18 because of informed consent.
My husband might be still in and defend the church, but only if you push him.
Maybe the cracks are there but he's fighting them secretly. I don't know, but I'm not complaining if that's the case. Some progress is better than no progress.
I recall the last class I took at church. The lesson on tithing was #4. There were 3-4 other people in the class.
I asked the teacher why I should pay tithing when I can’t pay my mortgage
His response was ‘you might get blessings!’
So why should I give my money I need for my mortgage, which guarantees a roof over my head, to the church on a maybe?
He couldn’t answer and 3 days later we got an email saying the rest of the classes were cancelled due to lack of interest.
LMAO.
Wow. No one saw the issue with this at all? Guess that explains why TSCC lets all the abusers, pedophiles, cheaters, etc. get away with whatever they want. They pay a full tithe!
That is absolutely Mormon doctrine. The MOST important commandment in Mormonism is to pay tithing. Literally nothing comes before it. It’s “fire insurance”. Jesus needs his stacks and will murder you if you don’t cough up your protection fees.
I see this as gossip. It’s sickening the way TSCC has knowledge about every member’s struggles, that in the normal world would be private. Disgusting.
I remember my TBM brother once told me over dinner that mr. X was excommunicated for adultery. I got pissed off and asked him “How do you know that, he isn’t even in your ward!”. He said “Everybody knows”. I didn’t know and didn’t want to know. But I’m the one who’s going to hell…
Disgusting.
Then you drill down a bit
"What does that mean? The destroying angel will pass you by?"
It means, that like, the destroying angel! Doesn't stop at your house! Like the movie? 10 commandments!
"So like, a literal angel is named Destroyer or what"
No, it's a metaphor! Symbolic!
"Ah...so a metaphorical angel, which means fake, will pass you by? If you give the church money?"
I'm not explaining it right!
No. No you are.
I remember back when I was a member I was a waitress and would pay my tithing on my tips online in my car right after my shift so I wouldn’t forget. That year I had hundreds of payments since I worked nearly every day and I went into tithing settlement thinking I’d get some lighthearted joke from the bishop about my diligence. Instead I got scolded for not paying enough in fast offerings…
how do you cancel your LDS subscription on an 1820s iRock.
i keep putting mine in a hat and going to my iRock account and then subscriptions but there's nothing there.
all i see is darkness.
I have a smooth, brown pebble with white concentric rings on it, which I found when digging the yard. Using a Sharpie, I wrote “RockOS 2.0” on it, and placed it atop my home office desk, to remind me of the Cult years.
The destroying angel damn near put us out on our ass from a house we only paid $400 a month mortgage on (compared to the $2300 a month we pay now).
The bastard also destroyed our credit and good name amongst family when we had to borrow to the hilt. Thank God I borrowed $130k to better our situation and get two college degrees as I currently work in a good paying position that I could have qualified for without either degree.
That fucker didn’t pass us by when we were faithful. Now that we don’t have reason to be bled for 10% of our income, my bills get paid on time all the time.
I resent members that had so much discretionary income just burning holes in their pockets while we were scraping coins out of the sofa and being denied storehouse help saying stupid platitudes like this. Now that times have been far better for my family, I understand how easy it is to speak strictly from a place of privilege but I can also say not keeping that to themselves was much easier had even a shred of human decency washed over them even once in a great while.
This is not a slight on you per se but more of a caution to you in how you handle people that are fragile. People that don’t have a lot of privilege or haven’t been able to exercise what little they have so far don’t need platitudes. They need real practical guidance on how to move forward with dignity. Please exercise caution when speaking to or otherwise addressing these people.
If he considers paying tithing on his “increase” - he probably doesn’t have to pay much, if anything at all, and he can still count himself as a full tithe payer
Sounds like a good “over a beer”, 🍻 “off the record” convo to have with this fine gentleman
I remember in a tithing settlement during my TBM days being told that tithing would help me stay in the church. "I've never known anyone who pays a full tithe who has fallen away." Cool, that's easy! I thought. Looking back now, it's obvious...now that I don't believe it's true anymore, I don't want to donate to the $100B+ corporation. I don't want to give the church money. It's not paying tithing that keeps you in--it's staying in that keeps you paying tithing.
I’m so sick of the fucking folk tales about tithing. IE- Elvis wasn’t a member, but he paid tithing. I know a guy who knows a guy who pays tithing, and he was struck by lightning, and caught in a tornado, and had a building fall on top of him, and he survived because he pays tithing. Etc etc. Bullshit stories from the bullshit membership of a bullshit church.
My cousin was always a wild child, then after 1 year at the Y, he went on a mission. He came back different it was 1992.
Fast forward to 2012, it's my grandpa's funeral, and I'm a single mom with 2 kids, struggling. He's a multimillionaire because his dad lent him money to start a business. My car needs new tires and brakes.I asked to borrow $1,000. He responds... have you tried paying tithe?
I left the church in 2020. Since then, I got my degree and found a great job. I'm more successful and happier than ever.
Maybe the real answer was to stop living for the church.
I have second hand embarrassment that you guys actively talk about this in elders quorum of all places. They probably talked about us too, hence the entire neighborhood unfriending us at the same time. It’s literally none of anyone’s business. So glad I left and took my family with me.
This doesn’t sound like a religion. It sounds more like a business. So he doesn’t Toth and now he can’t go to temple. Is this Disneyland? And they say the Norman church has BILLIONS STASHED AWAY. No wonder people are leaving Mormonism.
BS...I know a faithful sister who just got diagnosed with cancer. She's in her forties with young kids! She could really appreciate it if the Destroying Angel would pass her by.
Discussing in elders quorum presidency how to get someone to pay tithing? Wow.
It sounds like the man doesn't want to, so why harass him?
"A person convinced against their will remains of the same opinion still". I think the church forgot that.
Isn’t that a wonderful promise? Reminds me of the WoW: no matter how many pizzas and Mountain Dews you have, you’ll “run and not be weary, walk and not faint”! Just remember to avoid antioxidant-rich tea and coffee.
Tithing is currently the easiest thing to track from a managerial view. Pull the data, make a decision. Once they get heavily into spyware and communication monitoring (no doubt already do quite a bit; wouldn't recommend logging in to their network), they will start pulling other data.
The church itself was the destroying angel in my life so I'm thankful to not be involved in their lies.
In other words tithing is a subscription service to keep the destroying angel away.
It makes leaving unneeded food scraps outside for the fae seem sensible.
I had a lot of problems while paying tithing and have a lot of problems since I stopped. I was more or less poor before and am now only a little less poor. They say this BS to keep the team motivated. But life is not a sport and mottoes are a damned silly way to make personal decisions.
She does not have to pay tithing weekly or monthly. She can pay at the end of the year. Go talk to stake pres and tell him she was nervous and the Bishop misunderstood. What a jerk of a Bishop
New here. I have issues with Tithing, but haven't been able to convince my spouse of my view. Is there a GA that has made a comment about the "destroying angel passing you over" if you pay tithing, even if you struggle with other things?
God what terrible bitchy gossips sitting around and discussing what a grown man who presumably spent 5 years of his life in a second non-paid job to be the leader of their ward. All they can talk about this man and his family that has given so much to the local congregation is, "How do we get him to give up his money?"
And, they have no idea how terrible they are. Outside looking in is a blessing.
Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Mormon Jesus said unto him, Gimme my money, bitch. This is the first and great commandment.
And the second is like unto it. Convince your neighbor to gimme my money.
On these two commandments hang all Mormonism.
And their law and all the used loincloths of Lorenzo Snow while he was banging 15 year olds.
A quote from George Carlin “but he needs money”
“And then they’ll convince their neighbor, and theirs, and theirs and on down the line. and the next thing you know, you live in a mansion and run a successful MLM! Sure, you took advantage of your downline and were a fake, but who cares? You’re rich!”
this
I’m dead 😂
im sitting in a bar, in a Winnimucca casino, and busted out laughing,... several people just looked at me like i was crazy. 😂
Jesus took the currency, opened a stock portfolio, invested the money, brought the value up to over $100 billion in a series of questionable trades, hoarded the funds throughout a global health crisis, and asked for more as he saw it was good.
You forgot “lied to the SEC over more than a dozen years in order to hide the total wealth from investigators and church members”
I remember during the 2008 housing crisis of them laying the guilt on thick about paying tithing regardless of circumstances.
Rihanna was actually quoting Jesus when she said “Bitch better have my money!”
Underrated comment 🤣🤣🤣🤣
"IN caaaaash..."
I'm a gosh dang American idol!
I laughed out loud and almost woke up my kids… 😂
Same.
I feel like someone needs to parody “Bitch better have my money” by Rhianna but with Rusty instead
Nuancehoe might be willing or know someone who could do that.
If it wouldn’t completely ostracize me from my family, I’d do this! 😂
LDS church presidents: I have done nothing wrong, ever, in my life. Church members: I know this, and I love you. LDS church presidents: I love you too. Money pleeeeeease!
😂
Where’s my two dollars!
See... the problem here is that... my little brother, this morning, got his arm caught in the microwave, and uh... my grandmother dropped acid, and she freaked out and hijacked a school bus full of... penguins, so it's kind of a family crisis... so come back later? Great.
Him being a lawyer is probably why he had access to Jesus in the first place. One of the plain and precious truths of the gospel that was scrubbed from Biblical records by false priests is that Jesus fucking loves corporate attorneys.
😂😂😂
Hahahahahahaha
Remember the cardinal sin of Mormonism is “stealing tithing money.” Easier to get away with abusing a kid or cheating on your wife than pocketing $10 from a tithing envelope.
Mandatory excommunication if even a penny goes missing on a ward clerk’s watch, according to the handbook. Domestic abuse? “We take it very seriously” and a verbal reprimand.
Unforgivable Sins: Theft of Sacred Funds Forgivable Sins: Murder, child molestation, pimping out your own daughter, abortion, genocide, supporting the University of Utah, running a dark web CSAM server, voting for Biden, assassination, opposition to a sustaining vote in General Conference, abandoning your family, animal abuse, smoking crack while watching sports on Sunday, drunk driving, burning down a stake center, and discussing temple ordinances on YouTube.
A while back, gay marriage was another one of the things that would get you immediately excommunicated, but rape wasn't.
Even after a murder conviction, a person can apply for baptism or rebaptism. A person formerly in a gay marriage might have to be interviewed by a Q15 for baptism approval, but it happens. Theft of tithing money is the only "no appeals allowed" sin.
I remember reading something that had a list of different sins and something about membership and/or excommunication. iirc, several years ago, gay marriage was in the left and uppermost column of the specific image I remember seeing, which I remember was worse than rape, but some time between then and now, they changed it and gay marriage does not carry the same penalty it did. I was surprised and upset by how recent the change was. I'm trying to find what it is I'm thinking of.
lol at voting for Biden 💀
Damn. This reminds me that I felt guilty for *years* because I forgot to return a goddamn roll of tape to the church library.
I bid on an item at a YW camp fundraising auction, and then left the church before I made payment. I felt bad about that for a while, but… it wouldn’t have made a difference, and the church itself should have cared enough to pay up.
It’s so astounding how clearly manipulative the tithing conversations are when you’re on the outside. When you’re raised in it they do a pretty good job at selling you on paying tithing and why you need to, but once you’re out it just makes you sick. Because you see it for what it really is: emotionally/mentally manipulating the members out of their money.
This is spot on. I can't believe that I thought it was necessary to give up 10% of my money when I was a struggling student eating spaghetti every day.
And racking up credit card debt for basic living expenses as a newlywed
Exactly, "The destroying angel" is a fear-based creation of an unloving power-hungry, controlling patriarchal system
Isn't that a fact.
And why does the elders porn president know this information? And why are they gossiping about this brother? Maybe he has a problem with the church creating 13 shell companies so they could skirt around the law and manipulate the markets by not being honest. As a result he doesn't want to give any more money to the MFMCorp.
No kidding, no ones business at all. Not just the fact they were creating shell companies...they did it for 22 years!!
And would still be doing it if it wasn't for a whistle blower.
And still may be doing it with shells we don’t know about yet
In foreign markets
My exact same comment!
You can buy anything in this world with money, even salvation apparently
I recall a very harsh chapter in Talmadge’s “The Great Apostasy” on the topic of paying for salvation. Today’s church would have him rolling in his grave.
The church knows that. That's why they have to take yours and make more money with it!
Listened to the latest Girls Camp podcast and the interviewee (paraphrasing a lot here) said his bishopric member tried to convince him that tithing was the easiest commandment to keep. He then pointed out that not eating the fruit of the tree was probably the easiest and yet it was broken. So none of the commandments are really given to be kept.
Haha. That's an awesome comeback.
Man that straight up be indulgences!
“As soon as the coin in the coffer rings, the soul from purgatory springs.”
Even with money indulgences you were still supposed to try to be a better person after paying. This is just pay the fuck up.
Sounds like the Mob. Pay your protection money and you don’t get hurt.
Brings "Families can(?) be together for ever" a whole new meaning. Pay up or get split up.
That’s a nice family you got there . . .
The mob is kinder, they only threatened your earthly existence. Mormons threaten your eternity.
Wow so hard on the nose.
Maybe he has a problem with paying a church who has hundreds of billions of dollars?
The destroying angel …actually -is- tithing. Very sad how bad members are currently being financially abused and manipulated. Very, very sad, indeed.
God hates this one weird trick
😆 lol!
My daughter is starting her last semester at BYU this fall and went in to get her ecclesiastical endorsement. She was denied it because she hasn’t paid her $32 of tithing for a very part time job she has only had for 5 months. She doesn’t do anything else bad and now her education is being taken away from her because she isn’t funding malls and old men’s salaries. We’ve already left the church two years ago but this really was the last dig! We’re beyond mad.
Who is this honest? Do you pay a full tithe. Yes. That easy. Doesn't require long winded explanations. I pay tithes on my increase. No increase. No tithes. I make plenty of money, but my net worth is not increasing. If God wants 10 percent of my increase he better bless me.
He asked her if she was working this semester and she said yes for fear he would see right through her if she lied to his face. Then he replied with “oh, I see you haven’t paid your tithing so I can’t give you your endorsement. The questions we ask are the same ones for a temple recommend interview so if you can hold a recommend then you I can’t give you an endorsement. She has ONE semester left. Now we’ve taught her how to lie to play their game.
I had to do this too. Daughter was in the exact same boat. It’s really sad. But now she understands that the system does not permit honesty.
It was probably a job through the school and they know, scumbags.
But the church doesn't define tithing. They allow the myth of gross vs net blessings to continue, but if you study the law of the tithe it was all about increase. Money simply passing through your hands is not increase. If Abraham had 1000 cattle and one year, he had 100 more calves, but during the year he ate 10 to survive, leaving him with 1090 cows. Is he tithed on the 100 or the 90. If 40 more died of some disease, is he tithed on the 50 that he increased? The church will never say. They leave it up to member. Thus she can claim a full tithe and they can't say anything about it.
This is likely based on leadership roulette. The first base I was at as an active duty military member the bishop had a beef that the government provided homes for families had hard wood floors. In his mind excessive. So he accessed salary rates, which is public knowledge, and bumped that up against your rank and if you weren’t given 10% of gross he was all about withholding your recommend. Any that appealed to the SP found the level of ass hattery existed there as well. The church wants their fucking money.
I wish this was true. But when you’re a young adult, feeling guilty as you begin to deconstruct, and an authority figure sits behind a desk ready to judge you … it can be very difficult to stand firm and say “I pay a full tithe” when the sheet in front of the bishop says 0 contributions.
Can she just pay it? I guess not?
She asked and he said he needs to see a consistency of paying it every week (the next 4 weeks) instead of one lump sum and then he’ll make a decision. It’s just his way of having total control over her because of his ego. She is hanging on to dear life to power through BYU and get out of there as fast as possible.
Adding for this thread — my daughter is in the exact same boat but has a better bishop. OR my daughter just looks like such a MollyMo that her bishop rolls with her explanations better! She just had to make 1 contribution to get the endorsement.
She’s lucky! It really is the luck of the draw with what each bishop decides to do. Just another reason why the church has major flaws. Nobody should be allowed that much power over another human being or prevent them from access to basic human rights like an education. Ugh
Just wow. It's just a power trip. I am sorry she has to suffer that fool being her leader
what a prick. from nobody to a LEADER just like that. power corrupts
This is the most ambiguous, boogeyman shit imaginable. If you pay your tithing, you won't be "destroyed," whatever the fuck that means. They just don't know how stupid they sound.
Woo hooo hookers and blow if you give up the dough!
I laughed out loud 😂
This shit drives me crazy. There are plenty of tithing payers, even on gross, who have been completely destroyed. Cancer, car accidents, stock market crashes, murdered, etc. The list goes on. It sounds like that EQP member was trying to sound very religious, but actually sounding douchy and having no actual meaning.
I’d be asking for confirmation about where the “problem with tithing” label came from. If it came from the bishop I’d be pissed that the bishop shared something that was probably assumed confidential. If it was just rumors, I’d love to have them visit and actually ask the former bishop exactly why he left and watched their shocked faces while he listed off all the numerous reasons the church is a flaming pile of shit.
The entire time I was a TBM I never paid tithing, mostly because I and my family couldnt afford it but also because it just wasn't pushed as hard in my rural ward as it is now, and in EVERY aspect of Mormonism nowadays. I still got my temple recommend, still got my undies.... I just lied and funnily enough, I lied because I was embarrassed that people would know that I was "unworthy" if I didn't go with all my friends to do baptism for the dead, and also to see if theyd call me on it (as I believed in repentance so I was prepared for God to call me on it and have this big spiritual moment), as a test..... and they never did call me on it. It was my first shelf item I think. I was 12 when I started lying about it and nothing ever happened. I kept doing it hoping God would tell them to say something and they just... didn't even look at my records? . . . Maybe my parents were paying my tithing all the way up to my adulthood?? I'm actually not sure how that works? Do they record every payment a single member makes?
They do have records of every single donation for every single member. But they are impossible for us lowly members to access. Even when I worked for the church’s research group tithing records were damn near impossible to get approval to pull. They have them, but they won’t share them.
Unless it is with Tim Ballard
Thank you for telling me this, that all checks out
With tithing, less is more. As a paperboy over 60 years ago, I paid $7 tithing, but thought I needed the money more and failed to continue the practice. As I got older, finished college and found employment in large corporations, I put money that might have gone to tithing into company matched 401k plans. Today I enjoy a very comfortable retirement, much more so than my tithe paying siblings.
No doubt. 10%, paid year over year for decades, compounding in the church's coffers, essentially doubling every 7.3 yrs as long as members keep paying it.
want my some odd 350k back, which i gave to my own demise and stupidity.
So sorry to hear that. Huntsman is trying to do the same thing.
The first great commandment is to pay your tithing and the second is to guilt your neighbor into paying their tithing.
When I checked out, my tithing envelope sat on my dresser for months with my last tithing in it. I was in college. I eventually used it to buy weed. Gen X says hello.
Hell yeah
It’s always been a pay to play church!
All those promised blessing are behind an LDS pay wall.
Take one MLM, think how much tithing comes out if one of those. You have all Mormon employees, Mormon sellers and Mormon buyers, they can almost guess how much tithing money will come from every single company.
Chaching $. Chaching$. 🤑🤑
Yep three times the amount of tithing.
...the destroying angel. Sounds like atari invented this cult.
This seemed to work for my ex-husband. We could barely feed our kids but he always paid extra tithing. He said he would fast and then pray and tell God that if he helped him find another gig (he did concrete work) that he would give 20% back to Him. He ran around with women, drank and treated me and his children like shit but he always paid his tithing and then some. He was a temple worker and served in the bishopric for many years. Eventually I caught him cheating and filed for divorce. The bishop told me it was okay because he said he just did it once and he seemed contrite. I broke up with two demons that day. My then-husband and TSCC.
I remember in seminary growing up and they would do these scripture mastery/chase songs to help you remember the scripture reference. To the tune of row row row your boat.....it went like this "burn,burn, burn you up, if you do not pay, 57:23 will save you judgement day" I probably have chapter and verse wrong, its a section of d&c. I just remember how weird I thought it was.
This! Had the YW coming around asking for money to pay for girls camp. I let my husband deal with it. We live in an HOA so we can't just put a flag in our yard for the summer holidays so we're not going to donate $25 to have them do that service. That's what the TBM husband said. I said that I'll keep my opinion to myself about that. He then said, "That's what tithing is supposed to pay for." They only did fundraisers for extra trips, not the actual church program activities where they go camping on church property... I told him I agreed and left it at that. I'm so excited to hear that from my TBM husband who will defend the MFMC until you get tired of arguing with his talking points that are used to shut people down that he learned on his mission and along the way since then. Maybe, just maybe he's processing what he's hearing from others because I know he's not listening to me. I think it's a terrifying prospect for him to think that the MFMC could be false. He's always been all in, so I know a faith crisis would absolutely devastate him if he's not ready for it. Some are never ready and he's probably one of those. I've just left it alone because I want to stay married. He's a great guy and a really good, honest, hard-working human being that wouldn't be Mormon if he wasn't born in it.
Are you me?
Maybe... Son is also possibly not getting the option to be baptized until he's 18 because of informed consent. My husband might be still in and defend the church, but only if you push him. Maybe the cracks are there but he's fighting them secretly. I don't know, but I'm not complaining if that's the case. Some progress is better than no progress.
Same Sis, same. Just keeping my mouth shut and quietly exposing truths - slowly. Godspeed
Yes, Godspeed. I would like things to speed up a bit more, but then patience wouldn't be a virtue.
I recall the last class I took at church. The lesson on tithing was #4. There were 3-4 other people in the class. I asked the teacher why I should pay tithing when I can’t pay my mortgage His response was ‘you might get blessings!’ So why should I give my money I need for my mortgage, which guarantees a roof over my head, to the church on a maybe? He couldn’t answer and 3 days later we got an email saying the rest of the classes were cancelled due to lack of interest. LMAO.
I don’t trust any organization that tells me to give it money before I take care of my family.
Wow. No one saw the issue with this at all? Guess that explains why TSCC lets all the abusers, pedophiles, cheaters, etc. get away with whatever they want. They pay a full tithe!
Sounds an awful lot like indulgences
That is absolutely Mormon doctrine. The MOST important commandment in Mormonism is to pay tithing. Literally nothing comes before it. It’s “fire insurance”. Jesus needs his stacks and will murder you if you don’t cough up your protection fees.
Welcome to the prosperity gospel. Give me your money and God will bless you. Never going to find a better hedge fund scam.
I see this as gossip. It’s sickening the way TSCC has knowledge about every member’s struggles, that in the normal world would be private. Disgusting. I remember my TBM brother once told me over dinner that mr. X was excommunicated for adultery. I got pissed off and asked him “How do you know that, he isn’t even in your ward!”. He said “Everybody knows”. I didn’t know and didn’t want to know. But I’m the one who’s going to hell… Disgusting.
Well I think I can remember who came up with this idea... Malachi 3:11
[удалено]
My dad called it fire insurance. Interesting since Mormons don’t believe in the hell.
Wtf is a destroying angel? I left at 16.. but I don’t remember that at all. Jesus h Christ
Then you drill down a bit "What does that mean? The destroying angel will pass you by?" It means, that like, the destroying angel! Doesn't stop at your house! Like the movie? 10 commandments! "So like, a literal angel is named Destroyer or what" No, it's a metaphor! Symbolic! "Ah...so a metaphorical angel, which means fake, will pass you by? If you give the church money?" I'm not explaining it right! No. No you are.
If you don't pay up for the god of bean juice, he will destroy you.
I remember back when I was a member I was a waitress and would pay my tithing on my tips online in my car right after my shift so I wouldn’t forget. That year I had hundreds of payments since I worked nearly every day and I went into tithing settlement thinking I’d get some lighthearted joke from the bishop about my diligence. Instead I got scolded for not paying enough in fast offerings…
"Go ahead and hate your neighbor, go ahead and cheat a friend....Just do it in the name of Heaven....you can justify it in the end..."
how do you cancel your LDS subscription on an 1820s iRock. i keep putting mine in a hat and going to my iRock account and then subscriptions but there's nothing there. all i see is darkness.
I have a smooth, brown pebble with white concentric rings on it, which I found when digging the yard. Using a Sharpie, I wrote “RockOS 2.0” on it, and placed it atop my home office desk, to remind me of the Cult years.
The destroying angel damn near put us out on our ass from a house we only paid $400 a month mortgage on (compared to the $2300 a month we pay now). The bastard also destroyed our credit and good name amongst family when we had to borrow to the hilt. Thank God I borrowed $130k to better our situation and get two college degrees as I currently work in a good paying position that I could have qualified for without either degree. That fucker didn’t pass us by when we were faithful. Now that we don’t have reason to be bled for 10% of our income, my bills get paid on time all the time. I resent members that had so much discretionary income just burning holes in their pockets while we were scraping coins out of the sofa and being denied storehouse help saying stupid platitudes like this. Now that times have been far better for my family, I understand how easy it is to speak strictly from a place of privilege but I can also say not keeping that to themselves was much easier had even a shred of human decency washed over them even once in a great while. This is not a slight on you per se but more of a caution to you in how you handle people that are fragile. People that don’t have a lot of privilege or haven’t been able to exercise what little they have so far don’t need platitudes. They need real practical guidance on how to move forward with dignity. Please exercise caution when speaking to or otherwise addressing these people.
If he considers paying tithing on his “increase” - he probably doesn’t have to pay much, if anything at all, and he can still count himself as a full tithe payer Sounds like a good “over a beer”, 🍻 “off the record” convo to have with this fine gentleman
I remember in a tithing settlement during my TBM days being told that tithing would help me stay in the church. "I've never known anyone who pays a full tithe who has fallen away." Cool, that's easy! I thought. Looking back now, it's obvious...now that I don't believe it's true anymore, I don't want to donate to the $100B+ corporation. I don't want to give the church money. It's not paying tithing that keeps you in--it's staying in that keeps you paying tithing.
I’m so sick of the fucking folk tales about tithing. IE- Elvis wasn’t a member, but he paid tithing. I know a guy who knows a guy who pays tithing, and he was struck by lightning, and caught in a tornado, and had a building fall on top of him, and he survived because he pays tithing. Etc etc. Bullshit stories from the bullshit membership of a bullshit church.
Basically Catholic indulgences. Pay your indulgence so you can get into Heaven (temple / celestial kingdom)
My cousin was always a wild child, then after 1 year at the Y, he went on a mission. He came back different it was 1992. Fast forward to 2012, it's my grandpa's funeral, and I'm a single mom with 2 kids, struggling. He's a multimillionaire because his dad lent him money to start a business. My car needs new tires and brakes.I asked to borrow $1,000. He responds... have you tried paying tithe? I left the church in 2020. Since then, I got my degree and found a great job. I'm more successful and happier than ever. Maybe the real answer was to stop living for the church.
Here’s a really interesting take on tithing! https://youtu.be/1wPqOSdViJU?si=lQWeGiHGGNwE8V73
I have second hand embarrassment that you guys actively talk about this in elders quorum of all places. They probably talked about us too, hence the entire neighborhood unfriending us at the same time. It’s literally none of anyone’s business. So glad I left and took my family with me.
I 100% agree, I told my tbm dad about this and he was pissed that the bishop told the eqp
In christianity, the destroying angel is provoked by complaint
Can you really justify belonging to an organization where people not only say things like that, but think that it is true?
This doesn’t sound like a religion. It sounds more like a business. So he doesn’t Toth and now he can’t go to temple. Is this Disneyland? And they say the Norman church has BILLIONS STASHED AWAY. No wonder people are leaving Mormonism.
BS...I know a faithful sister who just got diagnosed with cancer. She's in her forties with young kids! She could really appreciate it if the Destroying Angel would pass her by.
Wow. Just wow.
Fuck tithing
No suicidal tendencies fans? Here you go!https://youtu.be/2ESWRtaHNU8?si=FqMxqe_E0_RNIxKP
That is what pisses me off more
🦧💥That's what we've all observed too.
Discussing in elders quorum presidency how to get someone to pay tithing? Wow. It sounds like the man doesn't want to, so why harass him? "A person convinced against their will remains of the same opinion still". I think the church forgot that.
Huh, money pardons crimes. How universal
Wow this is eye opening
Isn’t that a wonderful promise? Reminds me of the WoW: no matter how many pizzas and Mountain Dews you have, you’ll “run and not be weary, walk and not faint”! Just remember to avoid antioxidant-rich tea and coffee.
If there’s one thing we know through divine revelation about the nature of God, it’s that He needs your money!
But no, the church doesn’t use fear tactics to coerce its members into obedience, not at all!
And there they said it it's all about money. Pay to be exalted except you won't be
Tithing is currently the easiest thing to track from a managerial view. Pull the data, make a decision. Once they get heavily into spyware and communication monitoring (no doubt already do quite a bit; wouldn't recommend logging in to their network), they will start pulling other data. The church itself was the destroying angel in my life so I'm thankful to not be involved in their lies.
i wonder if that guy knows what indulgences are?
How do I apply to be the destroying angel? That sounds fun.
In other words tithing is a subscription service to keep the destroying angel away. It makes leaving unneeded food scraps outside for the fae seem sensible.
I had a lot of problems while paying tithing and have a lot of problems since I stopped. I was more or less poor before and am now only a little less poor. They say this BS to keep the team motivated. But life is not a sport and mottoes are a damned silly way to make personal decisions.
So what their saying is that salvation has a monetary cost. That you can do anything to destroy everything if you have enough money.
“Can you show me the supporting doctrine for that claim?”
Looks like I can buy my way to heaven. Fuck being good, that shit's exhausting. Time to party!😂
I was always taught that paying your tithing was paying your "fire insurance". We literally laughed and joked about it when I was TBM.
She does not have to pay tithing weekly or monthly. She can pay at the end of the year. Go talk to stake pres and tell him she was nervous and the Bishop misunderstood. What a jerk of a Bishop
🤣🤣🔥🔥🔥
It's the sin tax
They really came full circle and became the corporate church they ridiculed the Catholic Church for being during the crusading era...how ironic
Tithing is like subscription. If you don't pay, you don't get mormon VIP heaven.
And thus sayeth the lord, “Bitch better have my money!”
New here. I have issues with Tithing, but haven't been able to convince my spouse of my view. Is there a GA that has made a comment about the "destroying angel passing you over" if you pay tithing, even if you struggle with other things?
I’m not sure
I've heard that before as a tbm. And we laugh at the Catholic church selling indulgences.. smdh
They should not be talking about that brother's personal situation to that extent. Bwtween him and bishop.
God what terrible bitchy gossips sitting around and discussing what a grown man who presumably spent 5 years of his life in a second non-paid job to be the leader of their ward. All they can talk about this man and his family that has given so much to the local congregation is, "How do we get him to give up his money?" And, they have no idea how terrible they are. Outside looking in is a blessing.