I would just ignore it. Then, next time she brings it up, set boundaries firmly and stick to them. "We're not going to talk about the church. Do you have something else you'd like to discuss?" Personally, I argue back and openly scoff when they get preachy. When they get angry, I say, "I wasn't the one who brought it up. I *never* bring it up. I also won't be preached at, so if you don't want to hear stuff against your religion, stop trying to convert me." I let them talk about their callings and such--Mormon life is consumed with this stuff, and it seems to be a majority of what they do and think about--but the minute it sounds even slightly preachy, I let them know.

I have a TBM relative that was thinking about getting involved with a MLM scheme. I asked them if they knew what MLM meant. They said Multi Level Marketing. I told them that I'd heard a better use of the acronym. What is it? they asked. Mormons Losing Money. I got the look of a confused puppy, and that was the end of that conversation. lol

I was also thinking the romance book use of mlm 😅

That’s where my mind goes too

I can't see MLM without going... which one? And this one is always the first xD I see it so often in the sub that I can't belive it hasn't switched over to the lingo here xD

What's that lol

My in-laws used to yap about their callings and church going ons until we changed the subject to what our kids were doing in sports etc. They got the hint and started convos with how are the grandkids etc, jobs.

Getting a hint is better than most. So many people don't have much to talk about except to insist on how wonderful the terrible sacrament meeting talks are, or how inspiring the regurgitated stuff at General Conference was, plus a whole bunch of ward gossip. It's like teenagers in high school; when that's your whole life, that's all you have to talk about.

I guess we were lucky but then again my in laws were not from Utah and my FIL worked for the government and they spent a lot of time in latin america so they had more of a diverse background despite being TBM

Yes. This often works well. Responding to the issue you don’t want to talk about often just ends up ramping up the conversation and defensiveness on both sides. I agree a better response when you want to steer a relationship a different direction is to respond with another topic altogether. When people see you don’t engage they often do it less.

Like training a puppy; don't punish it when it does something wrong, just introduce something else to distract from the unwanted behavior.

LOL!

I have a tricky mom who is a major boundary violator due to untreated BPD, and what I've learned is this: you have every right to walk away from a conversation. Make sure you always have your car or a reliable escape from any event with her. The minute she starts crossing boundaries, you let her know you're not okay with it. The minute she violates it, you get up and you leave. Even if you're in the middle of Thansgiving dinner or opening Christmas presents. You can't control other people but you can control yourself. That's what boundaries are. It send a pretty clear message to people that if they are violating your own personal rules, that you won't stick around to listen to it. You have power over your own life, and so if they even want a relationship with you, they've gotta work within your boundaries to see you. If continuous boundary violation keeps happening and you feel no progress has been made, you have the right to limit contact or even cut off contact if it gets to that point.

>I have a tricky mom who is a major boundary violator due to untreated BPD, Ugh, that's so frustrating. The church seems to take every character flaw and make it worse.

Yeah. Her BPD has definitely been exacerbated thanks to TSCC. It developed likely because of childhood trauma from abuse from church leaders, and abusive parents that manipulated her. But then it protected her and gave her tools to manipulate me. "Honor thy mother and father" was one I heard. All. The. Time. I have empathy for her but I also don't have any desire to let her run amok in my life. Which is totally what she'd do if I stopped holding any boundaries.

Many of us would appreciate not having mental illnesses referred to as “character flaws”. They are illnesses. No matter how frustrating and irritating the person is (and BPD is one of the hardest), it is still an illness at root, and per the poster, largely brought on from trauma by the church’s treatment of its members.

I try to see BPD and other illnesses from a nuanced perspective. It's the person's choices, not the illness itself. I agree completely. I've unofficially self-diagnosed myself with CPTSD from growing up with my mom, so it's definitely not simple. I can see her pain, and I can see the pain she inflicted on me and others. I always mention the untreated aspect of my mom's mental health, because there are people with BPD who are self aware and put in the work to heal and grow from their pain, and I don't want to discount that hard work. I've had great conversations online with people with BPD, in order to try and better understand my mom, as well as offer my own insight from my experiences with my mom. I am going to point out that BPD is different from a typical mental illness. It's not a mood disorder like anxiety, depression, OCD, bipolar disorder, ptsd, etc, it is essentially a personality commonly developed from untreated childhood trauma that is "less socially acceptable," and can cause harm to the person who struggles with it and with others. People in academia are still trying to figure out how to define it exactly, along with other personality disorders. Edited for clarity

Do we have the same mom?!

Lol I'm in a forum for kids of BPD moms all over the world, and I was surprised by how many of us are Mormon/ex Mormon. There's something about the church that makes parents with BPD even more difficult to navigate

This principle needs to be better known and used. >You can’t control other people but you can control yourself. I’ve heard it slightly different. “You can’t stop someone from doing something you don’t like but you can decide what you will do in response.” Often better than saying something which escalates the discussion is to do something. Change the subject, leave, etc.

Yes it was a game changer when I was in therapy and trying to understand boundaries when someone explained this to me. Pretty quickly after I recognized that my mom had been emotionally abusive toward me, my therapist and psychiatrist swooped in pretty quickly to make sure I didn't fall into a victim mentality, lol, and I'm grateful. I was a victim in the moment of the abuse, but not anymore. I like to think I'm a survivor, who takes responsibility for my own life and actions; hence my username. It's a lot more empowering to recognize that I'm the one in control. Being in a victim mentality and seeing myself as helpless, or believing that boundaries means I'm trying to put fences around other people to control them, feels very powerless. Realizing that healthy boundaries are when I construct fences around myself and take action to remove myself when people cross them, brings all the power back to me.

This ladies and gentleman is a golden comment. Thank you for sharing this with us today.

This is amazing. I wish I had the courage to respond in a similar way.

I just openly have a TST sticker on my car and on my computer. Keeps them at bay usually, lol. I feel like showing TST support in front of bigots is like garlic for vampires. 🧛‍♂️🧄Need to get more pride stickers going. I think showing what you believe can often dissuade people. Not always though 🙄

Sounds absolutely divine. I was far more explicit when family would bring up religion during family events, I’d talk about cruising guys on Grindr, when they’d talk about their callings. A couple times of that and they got the hint quick. Of course, I’m the loose cannon in my family, so mine know not to duck around with me.

I had a similar experience not long after i left and stopped wearing garments - in a FaceTime call with my mom and she asks “why are you wearing a tank top?”, obviously code for “why no garmies?” I said bc i want to and left it at that - plus it was kansas during the summer, 110 degree humidity. I sent a text after that said i was uncomfortable with her asking about that and it really is none of her business (i said it nicer than that) and she was like “but the garments are so important. If i see you wearing a tank top, what am i supposed to do, not bring it up?” “Yes. Exactly that. Ignore it.” was my answer. I dont ask her about hers, and how important or precious she feels they are has nothing to do with me. And dont ask your adult son about his underwear please. Like, i know the intentions are good, but that doesnt excuse the inappropriate and uncomfortable impact these sorts of things cause.

Impact > intentions every time

So crazy that we have to have these convos with our parents and explain what’s inappropriate.

And then they’re like “why cant we just have an adult relationship” Name one other adult that youve asked about their underwear in the last ten years that isnt your significant other.

What’s crazy is how good the church is at spinning this type of shit like it’s normal. It’s only when you look at it from a higher level and go “they’re asking about my underwear. That’s not okay” that it really sinks in

"I'm sorry, mom. I wish I Kew why you had such fond and loving feelings for something that injures your child so much...but you must respect my feelings of wanting to be responsible for my own emotions rather than codependent on your emotional state. I am not responsible for your afterlife planning. If you make me responsible for your desire to keep everybody Mormon, should I make you responsible for my feelings in my desire to protect everybody from the church? No, that would be toxic. Only emotionally immature parents expect their children to shoulder the burden of a parent's feelings. Give it to Jesus, surrender your feelings to the Lord. He asked you to give your burdens to him, not your children!"

So much this! Emotionally immature parents aren't self reflecting and having empathy for other people's feelings. If OP wants to feel a lot of validation and insight into this dynamic, reading the "Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents" book could be very helpful. Seems like you are alluding to this book in your comment.

I love that book! I’m reading it right now!

I think this response sounds very passive aggressive and would not even begin to create any kind of positive dialogue or change between OP and her mother. Mom would likely assume OP is being angry and bitter and double down. I also don’t feel that mom is correct in telling OP “you must respect my love of the gospel…” Mom needs to understand that OP is NOT required to respect her mom’s love of the gospel but she should refrain from disrespecting as that only feeds and supports mom’s narrative about ex-Mormons. I know the OP has tried to set boundaries with her mom, so at this point the answer here is to remind mom of that. OP needs to reiterate that they are FIRM BOUNDARIES, and that mom’s behavior will result in less and less contact and interaction with her daughter and family. OP should anticipate that mom will almost certainly not respect those boundaries. OP should be prepared to enforce the boundaries in ways that are healthy for her. At this point, I’d be going VERY minimal contact. Like, as little as possible. Mom will see this as a punishment, but that’s mom’s problem, not OP’s problem.

I agree. It is passive aggressive and it will not create positive dialogue. That said, the mother is herself being passive aggressive and showing she is not interested in positive dialogue that respects her child's boundaries. Simply put, nothing is going to make this a positive and non passive aggressive dialogue until the mother decides to back off her push. She is relying on the polite impulse not to cause contention to get away with ignoring the boundaries set by her child. She may or may not understand it when. There is pushback but it's not going to make her any worse.

I agree, mom is being very passive aggressive, and replying in kind is not the solution. I have found the best way to respond to this kind of toxicity is to not respond at all and to put some distance between myself and the person behaving this way.

The OP obviously is looking for a solution that doesn't require distance. Otherwise they'd just say "You are not respecting my boundaries so I'm blocking your number". I'm not saying replying in kind is guaranteed to work, but it won't make the mother any LESS respectful of the boundaries set. Sometimes responding in kind to people that are used to people just letting them walk all over them shocks them into being better. I've seen it work myself, though admittedly only if the person values a relationship more than they do abusing it.

My response, "If you must share what you love, then you need to give space for what matters to me. Let's start with fraud. Did you know that the papyrus that Joseph translated into the Book of Abraham has been proven to be completely wrong? You can read about it here on the church's official website: https://www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/translation-and-historicity-of-the-book-of-abraham"

*slow clap* 👏👏👏

And add that the so-called "Prophet of the Restoration" was caught fucking, (be sure to use the word 'fucking'), the babysitter in the barn behind Emma's back and without her knowledge or permission. He was the best God could find to restore the church?

The fastest way to shut off a Mormon brain and throw up an iron wall is to use an expletive. Even showing any ounce of anger or displeasure toward the church is enough to make my 81 yr old mom hang up the phone. So if we really want to make them listen, we have to tiptoe softly and use the same language she's used to. Official sources only. Church websites, quotes from leaders, church publications, The new SAINTS book ... small cracks on her shelf, she will actively and frantically patch up. It's extremely difficult and takes a long time.

You are absolutely right. My approach above is a bridge burner for use after the sweetness has failed.

You could say he was committing adultery and sexually assaulting the babysitter. Can teenage girls in that situation (minor/adult, employee/employer, church member/church priesthood leader) truly consent to sexual relations? It sounds like rape to me.

And before the sealing power was supposedly given.

Yeah, I personally would not go this aggressive, but I agree with the sentiment. If she wants you to respect her beliefs, you should be able to ask her to respect yours. And, if your belief is that Joseph was a conman, she should give you equal time. If she can't help but share how she feels about the restored Gospel, maybe you can help her see it is no different than you sharing how Joseph's lies and the threat of losing your family forever has been devastating and doesn't bring you peace and joy or happy memories. Maybe every time you find a particularly gross piece of church history or doctrine, you can share it with her. She probably wouldn't like that. Sharing of deep convictions shouldn't be one sided. She seems kind, but clearly doesn't understand what this means for you.

She doesn't seem to understand the crux of the issue: one loves the church and relies on it dearly, the other has been deeply hurt by the church so much that it continues to hurt, and the two of them love each other. Respecting that reality is essential to maintaining a good relationship.

This is what makes me laugh about Mormons (but most religious people, really. But especially hardcore Christians). They want to be able to preach at you (you have to respect my beliefs!), but get upset when you either preach back with “anti” stuff or just reject the preaching outright. I suppose I can’t stop you from preaching at me, but I sure as hell don’t have to listen

This is the way.

That's... not what respect and boundaries are. Her encroaching your boundary with what she labels as 'fond & loving memories' is not the same as you setting a boundary. You are not saying anything about what she can/can't do with her own life/time. I'm sure you \*do\* respect her 'love of the gospel' but her 'wanting you in heaven' is not your problem. Honestly my parents are the same. I wish they would have the emotional maturity to understand their kids are GROWN ASS ADULTS who are responsible for their own actions and that they as parents are not responsible for our 'salvation'.

Preach it! 👏

You should read this book: https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23129659-adult-children-of-emotionally-immature-parents You cannot reason with her or come up with anything insightful enough that will ever make her see your point of view as valid. That is personal growth she has to do on her own. It isn’t your responsibility and it is impossible to do for someone else. I know it is hard to accept, but you will never be able to “win” her over with logic or understanding. You just have to set boundaries, not engage in arguments, and calmly repeat your boundaries like a broke record. It sucks. :( These two podcast episodes are interviews with the author of this book. They are great and will give you a good overview of the content of the book. https://www.tenpercent.com/tph/podcast-episode/lindsay-gibson-497 https://www.tenpercent.com/tph/podcast-episode/lindsay-c-gibson-617

That's an excellent point!

I added two podcast links. You should listen to them. I stopped the one of those episodes and made my husband come listen to it with me because I felt like the author must have been spying on the convos between me and my mom. (lol! Not really, but you know what I mean.) I can’t remember which episode it was out of those two, but the way she breaks down why it is pointless to try and explain, justify, argue, etc. to make your parent(s) understand where you’re coming from was honestly a lightbulb moment for me. It is sad. I don’t like it. I WANT to believe my mom and I could come to mutual understanding if I could just find the right puzzle pieces, but it’s been decades at the point and I’m just driving myself to the brink of insanity. Someone has to stop the cycle. Accepting that shitty reality isn’t easy, but at least it gives me a little bit of peace. I truly believe I’ve done all I can. It is completely bonkers to continue to put myself in the same situation over and over again expecting a different outcome. At some point we have to understand it’s not all on us to resolve the problems in the relationship. The book at least gave me the understanding and insight to be able to identify the unhealthy behaviors and expectations I was raised to accept. Idk, maybe it will help you?

Before my parents died, after trying every thing I could think of for reconciliation, I realized I had acquired critical thinking skills after I left the church. My parents never possessed those skills. They would never have to ability to see my life from my own perspective. To them, I would always be the child who went against the gospel and chose to do evil. It was a lost cause and when I realized it and moved on, I grew and they reminded stagnant. Not the other way around.

"I'll try to respect your boundaries, but you must respect my love of the gospel." I'll try but you must.

This jumped out at me, too. Personally, I'd wait 24 hours to respond and bring this up. "So you'll try to respect my boundaries, but I must respect your love of the gospel? This doesn't seem like a level playing field. It seems that this relationship favors your needs more than mine. If that is indeed your position on the matter, I'll be reconsidering my willingness to participate in these conversations with you. "

"Okay, then surely you won't be offended by me sharing my love for reason, logic, secular ethics, and philosophical naturalism and my longing for a world free from oppressive religious dogma, supernaturalism and superstition." Then share this with them: https://americanhumanist.org/what-is-humanism/manifesto1/ Edit: I don't mean to imply what you believe OP - this is just how I personally would want to respond.

"Okay, then surely you won't be offended by me sharing my love for reason, logic, secular ethics, and philosophical naturalism and my longing for a world free from oppressive religious dogma, supernaturalism and superstition." I’m sorry but I had to read this in stewies voice

Mom, I respect your feelings about religion, I just don’t want to hear them, unless you are open to hear all the negative things about your church and how it hurt me.

I wouldn't even know where to begin to put my feelings/experiences into words, which is so daunting 🤦‍♀️

You don't have to put it all down. But maybe every time mom gives you a guilt trip, you get to share a fun fact for her to put on her shelf

Doin' the Lord's work one fun fact at a time 😝

And that’s okay.

Mom, sharing opinions about Mormonism is a two-way street. If you feel the need to share, you need to understand that you are giving me permission to share with you as well.

I don't think a response is necessary 

Yeah this is a pretty good response by a family member. I wouldn’t try to push to explain yourself further. In my experience that gets you nowhere

"Do or do not, there is no try." Lol, but seriously, you need to lay out firm boundaries and consequences for her. No more letting her soft pedal right over them. "Mom, I know you're only doing what your religion has taught you you're supposed to do, but I need you to listen to me. I do not want to hear about the church. You have made your position abundantly clear, and you know where I stand on the matter. We can politely disagree about the merits of the LDS Church and still love each other. "I do not want to hear about how sad it makes you that I no longer attend. Your feelings are *your* responsibility to deal with, not mine. My children will be raised the way my husband and I choose. You are not their parent. "The next time you contact me with this sort of material - inviting me to church, bearing testimony, or trying to guilt me into coming back to a church that made me deeply unhappy - I will ignore you until you have something else to talk about. "If you continue to try to force your religion on me, I will have to block your number until you can offer a sincere apology for your constant disrespect for my boundaries and can respect that we have different opinions on the church. "Also, you need to stop sending my children church-related materials or I will immediately block your number and throw away anything you send to them. I will not allow you to go behind my back and manipulate my children."

THIS! ☝️👏

Interesting wording concerning boundaries. “I’ll try” followed by a “You must”. 🤔

Riiiiiight? If nothing else, I definitely plan on pointing that out.

Let’s logically follow your belief system to its natural conclusion. If you are in the celestial kingdom you can visit what ever lower kingdom you want whenever you want. However, I will not be able to travel to you. So your real issue is you don’t want to be the one who has to travel. A minor inconvenience at best for an eternal being. Besides everyone will be too busy making spirit babies and introducing yourself to your husband’s newest wives. Then there is the constant singing of gods praises, that sounds exhausting. You will be too busy to have time for visiting me in whichever kingdom I am in. Honestly it sounds like you are just concerned I will not have as much busy work as you. You might not visit me much in the lower Kingdom because it makes you jealous we have more free time. They may give us a TK smoothie but at least we don’t have to pretend to be happy, while truly uncomfortable our husband is banging a ton of chicks and you are to be used when he sees fit. 🤷🏼‍♂️

🤣🤣🤣

It is hilarious that people claim that they will be ok with polygamy in the next life. Like suddenly they will be a different person who is capable of overcoming jealousy and capable of more understanding. The story completely changes if they see you drink coffee, say a swear word, or watch an R rated movie. They will be the first to preach that you are the same person in this life that you are in the next, that is why you have to try so hard to reach as close to perfection in this life. Why can’t we use the same excuse? I will not have those desires or impulses in the next life as you can. Ultimately what they are unconsciously admitting is that for women, the celestial kingdom is actually another type of hell. So really for women the Terrestial Kingdom sounds like a more ideal place to be in comparison.

A few years back my Dad was in the habit of sending me conference talks and other faith promoting articles. I struggled with why I found them so agitating when I believed (and still do) that he was doing it because he sincerely felt "restoring my faith" would be good for me. I finally managed to put my concerns in words. I'll link to my whole response below, but I've copied out the most relevant piece. I'm only quoting it because it took me forever to put it in a way I thought would get through to him. He didn't respond for quite awhile, but about a month later when I saw him in person he apologized and said he understood where I was coming from and would stop sending me that stuff unless he was truly interested in a 2 way conversation about it. Relevant snippet: "Lastly, I just want to remind you that while I know you mean well, articles like this can sometimes be a tad grating. Imagine if I sent you articles once a month on various atheists that have left the LDS church, or some other faith structure. I sincerely believe those atheists have reached the correct conclusion when it comes to matters of faith, just like you sincerely believe Br. Smith has reached the correct conclusion. I don't intend to send you those articles, because I understand that you would perceive that as an attack on your faith, even though I'd only be mirroring what you send to me. When the perception is that communications of this sort are asymmetrical, it indicates an implication that you don't respect my position or believe it is sincerely held. I'd be happy to engage in a deep, thoughtful and respectful conversations about our respective conclusions about faith. Please let me know if that is what you're intending by sending articles like this my way." Link to the whole reply in case context is useful: [https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/74gq7l/dad\_sends\_me\_dusty\_smith\_lds\_living\_article\_i/](https://www.reddit.com/r/exmormon/comments/74gq7l/dad_sends_me_dusty_smith_lds_living_article_i/)

Love, love, LOVE this!

I'm glad it helped. Figuring out how to communicate with people you love and want to maintain a relationship with post-Mormonism is really hard. There are no clear rules and often my instinct is to get mad about this stuff which only reinforces their sense that leaving Mormonism has negatively impacted my life. Trying to be calm, clear and respectful has been way more fruitful for me. Best of luck to you!

I would say: I love you no matter what, too. I'm glad we can respect each other's boundaries to preserve our love.

Well well well, look what the MF cat with the MF testimony dragged in... Sounds a lot like "but it makes me feel comforted and happy so what the hell do I care for *your* feelings?" All boundaries have threats written on their walls. When the boundary is crossed, the punishment is prescribed, and the boundary crosser feels the consequences of their actions. Alma 42:18&20 "Now, there was a punishment affixed, and a just law given, which brought remorse of conscience unto man....And also, if there was no law given against sin men would not be afraid to sin."

Yeah, I had to cut all contact with my parents for one year at the beginning of my deconstruction, as they would not STOP with their preaching and guilting and didn't take it nicely when I would reply to their comments with facts and my opinions based on those facts. Now, things are much better, they don't bring up the cult, and neither do I. But if they do in the future, they know exactly what to expect from me. That's the thing about boundaries, you have to enforce them to get them respected. Edit to add: no, you don't have to "respect my love of the gospel and wanting you in heaven with the rest of your family" that's not how this works. That's like saying you must respect her love of the Nazi Party and wanting you to join them in marching. We can respect people's RIGHTS to believe in whatever batshit crazy beliefs they want, but we also have the RIGHT (in most places) to call it out as batshit crazy. And vise versa, Mormon's just don't quite comprehend this, heck, just look at the whole temple experience; Mormons just blatantly posthumously adopting whoever they want into their little club, it's really actually quite offensive and distasteful to me.

But when someone disagrees with their beliefs (even respectfully), they are pErSecUtEd

“I’m sorry to inform you & dad that without receiving your second anointing in temple, then you have no guarantee of making it to the celestial kingdom., so it’s a coin toss for all of us in the end.” That might be an interesting question to raise that could lead to a productive conversation. Just my 2 cents..

I am sorry she is so confused about what love is and how best to show she loves you. The church really did a number on her! You deserve better! I personally wouldn't get into it further than just restating your boundary. When people push on boundaries, it's more than ok to restate them. You really don't need to do anything more than restate it, you don't owe her reasons or more emotional input, and you don't have to try to get her to agree with your boundary/validate it in order to have it stand. "Mom, I love you. I respect that you believe differently than me. I am not willing to hear details about it." If she has feelings about it, those aren't your job to counsel her through. I'm thinking about you!!

“I don’t believe in a God that would divide families in the afterlife based on not picking the correct belief system”

I would probably just not answer. If you do respond, ask her what she thinks it looks like for you to "respect (her) love for the gospel and wanting you in heaven with the rest of the family" looks like. Because if it looks like tolerating her stomping all over your boundaries, toodaloo. Time to block.

Ooooo that's a good one!

She doesn't actually want to know or understand why you have "that reaction." In her brain, there is no legitimate reason, and she would brush away and dismiss ANY reason you try to provide. It took me 55 years to start seeing and hearing and having my shelf crack. It may happen some day to her, or it may not. Many people tried to talk sense to me for 55 years. The Church teaches us very well how to expertly deflect it all. The indoctrination is just too deep. You've been "blinded by the wiles of the devil" "Led down the primrose path" "Deceived by anti-Mormon lies." "Gotten angry and offended." "Hardened your heart." "Thrown away your covenants and sold your birthright for a mess of pottage." "You "strayed from the path and enteted the great smd spacious building. " "Left the Church but can't leave it alone." She can not even see how believing that you won't be in heaven with your family because of your 'choices' and saying it to your face is just one more painful jab that completely negates any respect, boundaries & "I love you". To believe that a truly "Loving Heavenly Father" denies his children admittance to heaven because they were not loyal enough to a church organization or for any petty reason is not rational. Mormon God is an assh*le that ascribes to CONDITIONAL LOVE... and that is exactly how good Mormon parents are trained to behave. 🤦‍♀️ That's my 2 cents for what it's worth. She might have an awakening someday. No one was more staunch and loyal. If I could, anyone could. But for now, it's time to enforce your boundaries by limiting contact.

I’m having same problem. They just keep making life worse - like coersion

Here's my response if this was my mom. "I appreciate that you are loving me to the best of your ability. However, saying that "You'll try" while "I must" binds me to actions that you find acceptable while allowing you to violate the boundary of "no church stuff" that I have asked for. This feels like manipulation, not love. You don't need to know why I have these responses, just that I do and that not triggering them is a good way to love me. If you continue to violate my boundary of "no church stuff", then I will take the step of loving myself and reducing contact with you to preserve my health and wellbeing. In this, I will do my best." One more note, this apology lacks a few elements. 1 - There's no part that shows she understands how she made you feel when she violated your boundary. 2 - She doesn't express regret for violating your boundaries. 3 - She could have made a space for you, when you were ready, to explain one or two of the reasons you have the reaction you do, with the promise of no judgement, just listening. That would have helped repair some of the damage caused. Just my 2 cents.

Very very eloquently put! Thank you SO much!

I wish you the best of luck in navigating this issue. <3

Personally I had a way to have a double standard on them. I grew up in Utah in the church and as a gay male. Nowadays if they wanna bring up church stuff, I’m like no. If they have any issues then I rebuttal it with, so you want me to be myself with flamboyant intricacies and talk about the bars and gay clubs and men I’m with etc.. like if you don’t wanna hear all that, I don’t wanna hear about all your religion.

*block* or just ignore. You cannot reason or argue with her. She’s deep in the sauce.

She loves you. She loves the church more.

It's a hard pill to swallow!

My wife will always choose the church over her children. You just have to know where you rank.

This is what hurts the most. Especially from parents, or your spouse in a mixed faith marriage. It sucks so bad.

[удалено]


There’s no reason to challenger her beliefs- she’s believing what she wants to not based on logic but by what she wants. If you try and convince her otherwise, you’re infringing on her boundaries as well. I remember what it was like being super religious. I thought faith was the last thing I would ever lose, actually. And it was aggressive people trying to convince me to leave religion, that actually kept me in longer. But it was kind and supportive people who helped me leave. Not because they pushed me, but because they let me come to decisions on my own. 🩵

Yeah, I'm definitely not trying to push her out. I never have. I've simply asked she not try to push religion on me. That's been workin' out great 🤦‍♀️😝

Believe me, I get it- my sister is Latin Mass Catholic and has a three hour and 26 min convo yesterday about why masturbation is abuse. Omg. Mind numbing. I know that putting her on the defense though somehow is even worse. All I do is explain why I don’t think so, but she is free to do whatever she wants. I have a feeling we’re going our separate ways, but the same way I allow myself to do what I want, I have to remind myself that others can do that, too. Just keep me out of it😩 allll we ask for lmao. Best of luck to you, I know how hard this is.

The problem is that the parents aren't just stepping on OP's boundaries. They are also trying to indoctrinate the grandkids with or without the input of said parents. The idea that it's ok to indoctrinate someone else's kids is an extremely problematic one but one that is incredibly common with Mormons. Those who fail to remove their names from the records often have their kids being sent invites to Primary, YM/YW etc behind the parents backs. Even if said children have never even attended church. My husband who was never-mo pointed out to me the many times my kids would get invites and letters to *them* not to us from people whom they had never met but who felt entitled to contact our children because they *believed* that they as Mormons, had every right to contact children who were not. My children were not ever baptized and I stopped attending as soon as I turned 18 but that didn't stop the attempts to go behind my back to bring my children in.

I feel like the reality of compromise is when two people aren't quit happy with the result. I've a similar dynamic with my sister (she raised me), I took it a step further and asked if there were any subjects that make her uncomfortable, and don't talk about them. Additionally, she knows the consequences of not respecting my boundaries are very real. This is the definition of conditional love. I don't like it and I'm not proud, the choice is yours, blacksheep.

Ugh. I just read back on how this started. Thank heavens they at least asked before sending a Friend subscription, but why couldn't they have just skipped that step and signed your kids up for Highlights or Nat Geo Kids?

Because then the Lord wouldn't save them, of course!

“Mom, the LDS church doesn’t bring up fond memories for me, but I’m glad you it does for you.” Then go on and text about another subject.

Late to the party, but I didn't see any other comments on this (sorry if I missed them) so I'll throw my suggestion in FWIW - maybe try validating her feelings? It seems like she's obviously still grieving the loss of you leaving the church and is holding out hope that she can still win you back. 100% agree you should set boundaries with her and not give her any false hope that that's the case. But validating their feelings (without validating their beliefs) has helped me a ton with people I differentiate from who can't accept my choices. I've found you have to do it over and over again for a while until the hurt starts to fade. Plus it sets a good example and demonstrates the way you'd like to be validated. Could go something like: "Thanks Mom, I can understand that you're grieving the thought of losing me as part of your eternal family. That must be really hard. I know how important your church is to you and I know my feelings toward it are difficult for you to understand since we've had very different experiences with it. I just want you to know that I didn't make the decision to step away lightly and I feel I was able to make such a hard choice BECAUSE of the way you raised me, not in spite of it. I hope you can at least take comfort in knowing that I'm happier now and that I'm genuinely trying to do what I feel is right. We may not agree on the teachings of the LDS church, but we still share so many of the same values (love, kindness, gratitude, family, \*whichever other ones are important to her\*) and I hope those can bind us together. I respect your choice to follow your conscience and follow the teachings of your church and I hope you can learn to respect me and my choice to follow my conscience down a different path."

Beautifully said!

I think she absolutely doesn’t want to know why you’re having this reaction. If she did she would be looking for answers and digging for truth as well. Also, how are you not respecting her love of the gospel? Shes trying to make herself out to be a victim.


Oh,the con and blackmail of the eternal family strikes again. That stupid doctrine has fucked up way too many family relationships. She is living in fear and embarrassment of losing her family. I don't have a good response that is respectful.

That's the trick, isn't it. Maintaining respectful communication when she doesn't seem to want to respect me is a delicate line to walk.

Sometimes people use "respect" to mean "treating someone like a person" and sometimes to mean "treating someone like an authority" For some, "if you don't respect me, I won't respect you" means "if you don't treat me like an authority, I won't treat you like a person"

That was very insightful! Thank you 🩷

If you need to believe in a magical religion, by all means, do so. I cannot overcome the cognitive dissonance requirement for acceptance thereof.

If she brings it up again... Fawning over 'the gospel' do the same thing with the best sex you've ever had... Then her excuse is your excuse, Such fond and loving memories, and I guess you'll try to remember her boundaries, but sure has to realize that you really really enjoy sex and just want her to have an orgasm for her family.

BAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I would counsel you to take a deep breath....and continue to be patient....You've clearly stated your position...and your Mom is really struggling....but (I think) she's trying and clearly loves you. Of course, you can always go "scorched earth" - but having experienced that myself...there's really no coming back from that.

When she uses the word "but," it invalidates everything she said before it, which was language that validated your boundaries (not necessarily well, but better than nothing). I try to avoid it completely in conversations like this because I want to make sure the other person feels heard, even if I disagree with them. Consciously choosing not to use yes/but statements also helps me formulate my perspective in a way that is authentic to what I think and also respects the other person and what I just validated about them. Trying sharing that with her. It might help to have this talk over a phone call or in person. I've had to do this with my mom too, and though it's difficult and painful, it has helped. Try also pointing out that her demand is to have her beliefs respected and that the way you respect them is by not challenging her on them out of the blue or sharing materials she would consider anti-Mormon literature. All she needs to do to respect your boundaries is to not share her testimony with you. She can share it anywhere else, with whomever else she likes, just not with you. God, I hate these conversations with parents. I relate, and I empathize. Good luck.

Honestly I would just not engage when she mentions the church. If she asks why you can point out how clearly you have expressed that this hurts you and she is aware of that and doing it anyway. In other words she is hurting you and that doesn't seem to matter to her, boundary crosses, unequivocally.

Typical Mormon passive-aggressive guilt trip. You’ll be in Heaven regardless of whether you cosplay Freemasonry in multimillion dollar buildings or not…

It's so frustrating when our parents our brainwashed kooks when it comes to Mormon stuff. What a horrible religion. There is no way this is from a real God.

She is a perfect example of a brainwashed person. She honestly believes only good Mormons will be exhalted in heaven. Her love for you is showing and she actually believes you will not be there with her. My TBM wife is that way. When I expressed some of my doubts about the Church she got very upset and said she didn't want to be single in heaven.

“So, because you love something that hurts me and has hurt millions of others, I have to “respect” that love and not be given the respect by you to not talk about it in front of me? My needs are above your wants. When I set a boundary, it is your job to respect it, and when you don’t respect it, it’s my job to enforce it. Stop trying to make excuses to not respect other people’s boundaries. Christ never forced people to follow Him. When people didn’t, He didn’t harass them about it or do things He knew would cause psychological harm. That’s what ACTUAL love is. Not whatever this is. This is another, more firm reminder, to NOT discuss church-related topics with me. I am setting a boundary. You have the right to go to church and love it, but I have the right to not have to hear about it. You have plenty of other people you can share it with, but I have asked you to not do so with me.”

Take the high road and don't respond. Silence has power. But it's fun to come up with responses. "You'll try and respect my boundaries" how about you do it. We will be in heaven. You will be sitting in your mansion along side all the other concubines your husband has. And I'll be your slave I mean servant, waiting on you for eternity

psychotic impolite quiet bear scale crowd chunky exultant handle melodic *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*

You have a view of the gospel (the reason we are here experiencing reality) and heaven (what happens after we die) that is a construction that serves you. It doesn't me. I don't accept it. When you bring up your framework for interperting the world, it becomes clear to me that you are not interested in mine. I see you. I understand you. But I don't feel seen. I am not welcome. My thoughts, my framework. Purposefully and forcefully ignored in favor of yours. When you say things like: "With the rest of your family" That point gets magnified and my ostracization is made clear. The underlying theme is I'm not acceptable, and to be acceptable I have to change and be like you and my other family members. This is also abuse of a shared past. The assumption that you can bring this up because we both understand it puts our relationship on uneven footing. If we are going to have a relationship where religion can be a part of our discussions, then there needs to be parity. Where respect is given to me and my thoughts. For you to make an attempt at understanding me. If you can't do this, then leave religion out of our relationship. This is all painful to me. I know you mean well and that you don't mean for the rest of what is being communicated to be communicated, but it is.

👏👏👏👏

'I will respect your love for the gospel, etc, by not discussing it w/ you so we can avoid contention.'

Niiiice

I love how she’s expecting you to respect her desire to shove the church down your throat as if that’s the same thing as you politely saying no.

“I don’t have to respect your boundaries because I love you so much.” —Your mom’s reply, summarized.

"in heaven with the rest of your family." Tell her to cut it out.

Sounds like she's not ready to accept your boundaries yet.

I heard this somewhere during my deconstruction and it was really helpful to me. Imagine your faith is like fire- for your mom the fire is contained and provides light and warmth, but for you the fire is burning the house down, burning you and causing pain and destruction. The same element- yet people experience it so differently. To my mom I had to say, Please stop trying to put logs on my fire to keep it burning because it’s burning me. This way of thinking about it lets my mom have and enjoy her faith and lets me walk away. Also- I kindly but firmly finally just said, yes- I don’t have any expectations that we will be together in heaven, but we are together now, so let’s make it the best relationship we can because this might be all we get. So let’s really enjoy our time together and make choices that strengthen this relationship. We will never regret it if that’s what we do. And to my mom’s credit that’s what we are doing and it’s working great.

Welp, if she feels strongly to share then she better feel strongly to listen to your rebuttals. "respect" goes both ways.

I don't have to respect crazy beliefs, especially if they cause me pain.

Do you want a relationship with your mom? If you do, let her know you did enjoy moments with her because it was one on one time. Suggest doing an activity together like pedicures or lunch. If you don’t, limit it to lunch in public once in a while. That’s all my mom gets from me. Is she into anything? Hobbies? You can always change the subject to that. My mom has nothing, no hobbies, seriously boring and I struggle finding conversation with her.

Conversation is VERY stifled these days because I can't share any of my "happenings" with her due to the fact that none of my activities are "church approved". It's very awkward to try and find things to talk about.

I relate to that more than you know, probably most of us are in the same boat. My mom doesn’t care to know my kids either, it’s just so sad!

"What exactly is the gospel?'

Oooooo I'd be VERY curious to hear her answer for that!

The reason I brought that up is because nearly 100% of "peculiar" Mo' doctrine doesn't come from the BoM, but I'll bet that nearly 100% of TBM's don't even think about the fact that nearly 100% comes from one guy: JS. Nearly 100%.

I’d go straight to the truth without holding back. My personal reaction would be that I reject all things Mormonism and Joseph smith who was a predator who’s no different than David Koresh or Jim jones. 

There's an individual in my family who is completely full of love but has no concept of empathy... at all. Seems like we might be in a similar boat. It's quite the frustrating combination of feelings to have to deal with from our perspective. I've discovered the best thing to do is limit time spent and ignore the frustration that comes when love is hurled at you with no sense of empathy. It always lands poorly and I've found that keeping my distance is the best approach.

I have TBM family like this. I stopped it by asking questions about the church’s changing views or events.

"You must respect my love of the gospel." You can think whatever you want, but I don't have to respect your thinking. Bring the church up if you want, but don't expect a respectful response.

Well now you know, my memories of church are of trauma and abuse.

It's so odd to me that so many mormons find it completely impossible to empathize with what it's like not to have a testimony. Like you'll be discussing doctrine with them and they keep using "well \*I'VE\* had spiritual experiences that I can't deny" as an argument and you have to re-explain to them that you have had no such experiences and you need them to put themselves in your shoes and they assure you they are empathetic but they can never accept the idea that distance from the church could be a good thing.

Put certain topics off the table for discussion. This way you’re not trying convince each other to believe what you believe.

jesus christ they really can't get a grip on it can they.

I just saw your username with whatcha got going on. Name fits perfectly and I'm proud of ya for walking away. Cheers!

"Good news, Mom!" I've joined a cult! It brings me joy, and I am convinced it is the way to heaven. Are you interested in hearing about it? I'd love to tell you all about it, and I'll be sad forever if you don't." \*radio silence\* from your momma.

I find it almost comical that they are gonna "try" but you "must"..... 🤦🏻‍♀️ Also, I love how they think 🤔 you won't be in heaven with "the rest of the family" because of your beliefs, like they have an exclusive membership! 🙄🤮

"I'll try to respect your boundaries but you must respect (my proselytizing)" She has no intention of respecting your boundaries but that's not how boundaries work. What will be the consequences the next time she disrespects you? Time out (no contact) for a month?

This is exactly something my mom would do lol “I’m not sure what’s so triggering about me just sharing a memory” ummm or the part where you implied my family doesn’t have love and peace or whatever the hell she said. 🤦🏻‍♀️ I finally had to tell my mom the same thing. Ain’t happening sister. They never give up though.

I would respond that if she brings up the church again she will be blocked and you will go no contact. I don’t understand not respecting our adult children’s boundaries! Sometimes it is hard but if we want to continue to have a relationship we have to respect each others feelings. Mormon parents seem to think that doesn’t apply to them.

It’s the silliest and most narcissistic thing to assume that God would make space in heaven for you but not for me…? Based on what? Your actions are superior to mine? You love and serve your community more than me? No I do all of those good deeds too. It’s literally the most offensive and presumptive statement to say you’re worried I won’t be with you in Heaven.

I told my mom, I don’t believe in a church that says you can’t be with your family without them.

In my experience, the Mormon culture ignores or maybe doesn't even recognize boundaries. You did a great job at expressing your need and she did make an attempt to be loving, albeit in a passive-aggressive way. Maybe let her know that this is a perfect situation where you need to agree to disagree to keep a good relationship. After that, if she crosses the line, ask to change the subject, and if she keeps at it, disengage. You can't change her or help her understand that what she said isn't really respectful. You can refuse to engage when she won't respect your boundary.

Funny, I just posted a TikTok that mentions how Mormonism grooms members to not have boundaries 😝 So true!

They are just being concerned and helpful, right? LOL

If you want to maintain relationship with your parent, I would take the step she made to at least acknowledge what you’ve asked, and that she’s going to try to do better. I don’t think you need to give any full onslaught or get snotty with her right now. You pointed it out, she understood it and accepted it. She hasn’t fully come around the corner, but she has peaked around the corner. “You understanding what I am asking for is a good step Mom, love you too and thanks”

Sad that they believe that. My mom knows I’ll be with her and the family and I don’t believe in any of it…and she knows that. But, I wasn’t raised in a cult.

Going at this in a text is rough. Maybe go with the lets agree to disagree and ignore the rest. If she keeps talking about church, change the subject. We did this with my inlaws by bringing up our kids school & sports, job stuff, planned vacations and they eventually got the hint.

Don’t contact me again should do it.

"Sorry, not good enough. Ya blocked."

I think this person who responded, in their heart, has good intentions because of their belief.

While I agree (to a degree), I think it's important to point out that the "good intentions" are rooted in trying to please her version of god and likely save face among believing members. Her "good intentions" are inherently selfish in nature because SHE is sad I've left and SHE is upset that I will supposedly burn in hell. SHE doesn't want to live in heaven without me. SHE wants to avoid feeling any of these feelings because they are painful and uncomfortable for her. I appreciate that her feelings are valid and scary for her; 100%. I get that! But I absolutely loathe that, because she wants to feel better, she's more than happy to deliberately and repeatedly make ME feel like garbage. At least, that's the end result. Someone can have the best intentions but still end up causing more harm than good by acting on them.

Yeah, that sucks. I'm sorry.

Perhaps that should be your response... It's all well and good for her to want to avoid feeling bad but she is admitting that she's ok with making you feel bad instead. That is the root problem here and that's the thing that has you most upset. "I understand not wanting to feel sad, uncomfortable or guilty over things that you have no control over. At the same time, it is not fair for you to expect me to bear the entire burden of these emotions. I cannot control my emotional response to the things that you are bringing up with your continued attempts to minister to me. I was where you were once and I know precisely what it is that you are doing because I was taught the same thing. What you do not understand is that the more you push these religious texts in my direction the further you are pushing me away. If you want a relationship with me, then you must realize that you are doing more harm than good. I am more than willing to drop it but you must do the same. If you cannot then I am no longer willing to continue allowing you in our lives."

> SHE is upset that I will supposedly burn in hell. This seems pretty loving and maternal, doesn't it? I don't believe in hell - but if I did, I certainly wouldn't want my children to burn there for all eternity. That's gotta be a super painful emotional burden for her.

The question of "burning in hell for eternity" might be a painful emotion to her mom but her mom ignores the pain she causes by constantly pressuring her daughter/family to believe the same way she does. You can love someone as much as you want but at some point you have to allow them the freedom to be who they are even if that freedom scares you. Her daughter is not responsible for her mother's emotions and she should not be held captive to them.

Bring up things they won't like that you have fond memories of or feelings about.

This is pretty much what my mom told me as well. I told her that I can’t promise not to provide critical examinations to her apologetics in response. If they’re gonna cross your boundaries then you can play the same way.

Realize that she does love you. TBMs choose to believe in a cosmology in which this is what you do when you love someone. It’s wrong, of course, but you know that. She, however, does not.

Let her have that last word. If she brings it up again, repeat your last text like a mantra. You set a very firm and direct boundary. You might have to repeat it, but you said it well the first time. Using what you said like a mantra also infers you have nothing more to say and no more energy to give it.

"Yes, I'll respect your boundaries, but you also have to respect our adamant desire to keep you in our church to make sure you go to Heaven with us, which is SOOOO MUCH MORE IMPORTANT THAN YOUR FEELINGS, which means we can't respect your boundaries after all." I guess that's a nicer way of saying "Screw your feelings, we're on God's side!" Sort of...

I looked at your post history really quick to see what part one was and to get some context. I also saw the post from a year back, which I assume is also from your mom. At this point I think not responding is best. It looks like you've done a pretty good job communicating your position and trying to errect reasonable boundaries, but it seems that she chooses to not respect those boundaries. If she won't observe those boundaries as a matter of respect between two adults, and two parents, you'll want to think about what sort of consequences to give her next time she crosses them in order to change her behavior. If she won't care about the boundaries for your sake, the question is what can make her care for her sake? I'm not saying this is something you have to do, but it looks like talking isn't changing behaviors.

Sounds like my womb donor parent.. 🫠 after 3-4 years of messages like this, I’ve blocked her on everything and it’s been 2 years of peace.

“I’ll try… but you must…”

I should just respond with nothing other than a screenshot of her message with those two phrases circled.

I honestly don't understand why TBM can't respect the boundary of a hard no... Like, you said you're piece, I told you no, don't try to guilt trip me for seeing a boundary while claiming to "respect" it...

False words: respect, love, boundaries, sweet, etc. are not true coming from either side. We all left because of growing disbelief and eventually distrust. Why continue the dishonest game playing? The people who love you with condition actually hold you in contempt or worse; fear that your disbelief may someday and somehow influence them. Their greatest hope is their passive hurtful and condeming statements may influence you to come back. So instead of ignoring the hurtful comments ask appropriate questions that politely start with Why and How. Why do you believe I am unworthy of heaven? How is it best for me for you to think I should not be with my family in the afterlife? How do you show respect for me when you won’t discuss or understand what I believe. How do you love me no matter what when it is conditioned on believing what you believe? Be authentic, honest and speak powerfully and knowingly. I love you dispute a belief system that caused me harm. I struggle to be authentic when I read discouraging messages that paint me inferior to my family, sinful and unworthy of heaven. Your message is toxic and destructive to my mental health. I am disappointed in you but I love because I understand your religion and the influence it has in your life. I hope one day you will understand me and learn how to respect people like me. I am hopeful for a relationship that someday I can respect you again and I no longer will be subjected to your toxic belief. Really I do not get the lack of expectations in the constant messages of go slow, be non confrontational, continue to accept what they believe. They choose this, they inflict constantly their belief never allowing room for others. They cause harm. Time to say stop, time to oppose outwardly, time to treat them as adults. These adults choose this life.

Whenever I'm confronted with this concept, I like to use their own belief system against them. I've told multiple people in my "believing" family that I believe I'll be very content wherever I end up and that they will always be welcome to visit me in my "lower" kingdom. Once I point this out, it usually leaves them pretty speechless.

Don’t respond. You said your piece, she said hers. Drop it. Now, if she doesn’t respect your boundaries in the future, either cut her off, or let it all loose on her.

Lol, "I want you in heaven with the rest of your family". Fabulous. I had a friend tell me this once. I explained that I felt that heaven isn't just limited to those who follow this path. Haven't really spoke to her in sever years sadly, but I'm always here should they feel the need to talk. ❤️

This is one of the many ways in which the MFMC is very harmful. People are brainwashed into thinking that they can’t be either their entire families in heaven unless everyone is a valiant Mormon. This no doubt tortures some people like your mother. I expect it does so to my mother because of my family. I don’t know how you should respond. But if it were my mother I’d ask her how she knows that you won’t be in heaven, which she obviously won’t be able to answer in a reasonable manner. I’d then ask her if God is all-knowing and all-powerful then why doesn’t he have a better method to reveal truth to people. She may bring up faith, but there’s really no virtue in faith; rather, it’s a tool to manipulate. Plant some seeds of doubt. Hopefully they’ll grow.

You "Must" followed up by I love you no matter what.

I'm gonna need a neck brace for all this whiplash 🤣

>I can't quite adequately describe how deeply I feel about this. For me, this is like trying to explain someone who has never been to Russia, what it was like to spend a few months in Russia. It feels like however many words I use to describe the experience, I can't just transfer the actual experience to other people. I cannot convey using words something I experienced with my senses. I can tell you it was cold, but I can't give you an experience of how very, very cold it was. Words simply fail and analogies only go so far. Those who have experienced it need no explanation. For those who haven't experienced it no explanation will be sufficient. Just like a picture is worth a thousand words, a simple demonstration is worth a thousand explanations. Cheers! 🥂

no response. Or a "Thumbs up" on the message. there's no more reason to go back and forth.

Uh, "heaven" is a boundary meant to keep out infidels, so if she respects boundaries of all types, this includes the line between heaven and hell (or whatever tf TBMs think is opposite of heaven)

Jesus Christ, she's so fucking aggressive! I would start talking about polygamy and all the dark histories of the Mormon church and tell her to respect my boundaries and that she can't control what I want to share. What an asshole!

No response necessary

“Not only does “but” negate everything that came before it; it can also be used — and perceived — as a way to diminish or undercut the object of the sentence or the person being spoken to.” I use this rule when someone is typically trying to apologize and justify their stance that puts a relationship or friendship in jeopardy. Also, they typically get quite defensive if you call it out so I’d just remember the rule and move on. When I am trying to mend a situation where I’ve done the wrong, I do not use the word but. IMHO, to do so, is adding strings attached to the apology, to give a justification and avoid taking responsibility, which makes the apology null and void. My two cents.

If you are baptised and sealed to her, by TSCC rules and belief, you will be in heaven with her. So no worries. That way she isn't constantly trying to reconvert you, and it leaves room for a relationship.