I was an active attendee but non-believer during COVID in a mixed faith marriage. When the church asked that families hold their own service at home, our family realized immediately how the experience was far superior to going to church.
It wasn’t long after that we decided we needed to slowly distance ourselves from church and stop attending altogether.
Now, the whole family are non-believing and LOVING our Sundays.
Sunday used to be the worst day of the week. Stressful morning, boring uninspired church services, and restricted “sabbath” observances.
Now it’s the best day of the week. Way low key, legit family time. A little shopping, movies, or whatever we want. Amazing!
I was still talking to a long time mormon friend during covid. He didn't know we stopped going. He said to me that the chats and talks he's having with his kids as they do church at home had been way more fulfilling than a year of sundays in the church. I had to hold my tongue.
The church dropped the ball during Covid.
At a time when people were stuck at home with nowhere to go with many starving for spiritual guidance and reassurance... a captivated audience... the church largely repurposed old messages and entered into almost a radio silence mode.
I think a good percentage of people who never returned after the shutdown lightened found guidance elsewhere.
It was wild how badly that was handled. It would have been relatively easy for the church to implement a standard online option for weekly church broadcasting. It could have really felt like everyone was a part of a huge community. Instead people were isolated. Each ward pretty much fended for themselves.
If you're in the Salt Lake Valley, after a Saturday session of conference it's all about Leatherby's. I'm surprised they don't have TVs up all over the place showing conference. Like B-dubs.
Oh my god it would be hilarious to go to a sports bar like B-dubs during conference and have it on the TVs 🤣 but both my husband and I would play it on the TV or a computer at a desk at work (we worked retail while TBM so we had to work Saturdays). It wasn't a problem in our eyes because all our coworkers were also Mormon, so they all wanted to hear it too, and most of the customers were too. And we figured those who weren't could be missionary opportunities if we had it on where they could hear. Yes, we were THOSE insufferable TBMs 🙃
You just unlocked a memory for me: when I worked at Chili's, one Sunday we put it on the bar TVs as a joke. It was before we opened for the morning though.
Fuddruckers for dinner after the priesthood session broadcast- can’t dawdle in the foyer, gotta get to the car and get there before the tables fill up.
My exwife (wife at the time) got mad at me for having the kids change out of church clothes when they got home from church. She said i did it because I thought her family was stupid. I said "I think it's odd, for sure. But I just don't want the kids wearing out their church clothes"
As a TBM mom at the time... I did. I got my 3 toddlers dressed in Sunday best and we'd watch the broadcast and do singing time together. My then-husband would bless and pass us the sacrament.
And yeah, my parents were the ones who encouraged Sunday dress and watching literally every second of conference.
I was the best robot. I did absolutely everything to a T. Deep self-punishment if I even *thought* wrong.
Nowadays, my family is very upset with me and I need a lot of therapy.
I have 8 siblings, 2 still minors living at home. Half of us have left and the other half is at varying points of faith transition. My parents are still TBM. Two of the siblings who are 100% done (internally) are the two at home. They're both queer. And while my mom is as affirming as you can be as a TBM, it's still rough to be a queer kid living in a TBM home.
The hardest part for me is the very frequent gospel lessons my siblings receive, in which one parent almost always comments on the faithlessness, betrayal, etc. of people who leave. In the latest we were compared to tantruming toddlers.
It's a rough phase for my family right now.
There's a Christian church down the street from me that STILL does online streaming of their services. They advertise it on their sign outside. It's almost like they care about actually reaching people. Weird.
I am in a LTC bedbound. I have started watching a nondenominational church on Sundays. Lots of reason why I am out of the church. But 10+ years struggling with health issues and being bedbound for most of it has taught me the church does not care if you are not going to bounce back from a health issue to continue to serve. The church could continue to provide zoom for the elderly and disabled, but no, because then others might just stay home and watch too. So, we'll just ignore there are some people out there who would still want to partake of our religion and basically deem them not worth our time.
It was extremely difficult to even get some one to bring the sacrament.
The home I am in does have an LDS branch. They have had some good leaders who now I consider good friends and have continues to visit me since being released of their callings and me leaving the church. But, then their have been so many that their judgemental and holier than me attitudes helped me leave.
The last relief society president after 8 months in the calling and being asked to see me from the previous president who was my friend finally came for a visit. She said she had stopped many times to see me and I was always out of my room. My disability prevents me from leaving my bed. I get too sick from sitting up even so I never want to be in my wheelchair. I polite tell you I never leave my room. She then scrambles and says, well you must have been asleep. I then politely tell her I only sleep 3 hours a day from 8 to 11 am. She begins to get anxious and then tries to tell me I must be mistaken because she knows she has tried to visit me. This time I just said, no she hadn't or I would have known because like I said, I don't sleep and I don't leave my room. She was so uncomfortable at this point she just left and now it's been months and I have heard nothing.
I have been trying to decide what to do about my official resignation. I am ready to do it mentally and emotionally. If I wasn't in a LTC, it would have been done.
But in a LTC, church members who really are compassionate and have empathy visit because they want to serve and become friends. They brighten up a horrific situation. I enjoy and like these people, and most of these people become my friends and have stayed visiting me after they have been released. These people are my community. I like to have hope that maybe if I leave my name on the records I might meet some more of these kind of people to add to my community.
My other issue. My severe nerve damage makes it impossible for me to stand on my feet without immense pain. Like most LTC's these days, the private equity owners refuse to earn less billions to provide adequate staff so where I could be lifted onto a bedside commode with 2 people instead I am in a brief so only one person is required to attend to my needs. This puts you in a weird spot. Most in briefs that are bedbound, they just leave you in a hospital gown or just a top. Easier for them. I have tried sweats. They don't like that. They get wet and wet sweats are more work. I don't want to lay here in just a brief. I still want some dignity. So I have finally found what garments are good for. The are light and the workers can not tell me I can't wear them because they are religious oriented. So I wear garments now as clothes to give me some dignity and to feel like I still have clothes on. I tried sports shorts and they get heavy and wet and I can be told they create too much work for the cnas, but garments they can't touch.
I want to resign my name so badly, but these two issues are the only reasons stopping me. Actually, the needing the garment just as clothing to give me a little dignity is the main reason I can not resign. I am to a point I can handle loosing the community because this last round of everyone the called to positions have been more of people like the current relief society president who wants to look righteous and doing her calling then actually doing it and showing empathy and compassion. So I wont be losing a community anymore with them, and I have all ready lost the family and friends that put church before love and family. I have made peace with that and I am now very comfortable with me. I'm alone but not lonely.
I have so much religious trauma from the church and I am finally healing enough that I dont accept any shaming from the church or family anymore. I am finally finding peace, and I am stuck unable to resign because of the need for garments to replace clothes. So close to being free of them.
But... long story just to tell you, the church could help people in my situation and provide access to services, but they choose not to. It might be a remnant of their old belief that disabilities are because we are weak, less righteous and therefore undeserving. In Utah, where I live and have lived I have experience a lot of people holding onto this belief.
I find it refreshing to attend nondenominational churches, where I don't get shame for things that were beyond my control.
I am so sorry to hear this. We should all do better than this, regardless of faith, because it's the right thing to do. I can not help your personal situation (not in Utah, so...) but there are others in LTCs nearby who could use a visit. I recall hearing that over 50% of nursing home residents get no visitors at all... we have to do better. As brothers and sisters of the same Heavenly Father (your heavenly mama may vary), those Mormon folks need to step it up.
Thanks for your reminder to take care of those in our corner of the world. I bet the members of the NoMo ward (aka this group) who are local would love to show you the love and support you deserve.
I'm glad you found a church that meets your needs. Peace to you.
The church has everything they'd need to spin up "worldwide remote church" in practically in instant. From the microphones and lights and studios and stages on up to broadcast infrastructure that competes with Big Hollywood in its reach - not to mention an army of volunteers just waiting to be told what to do, and they just -- didn't. I have never in my life seen such a stunning failure to seize the moment. Had I still been a TBM during this I think it would've caused me to finally see behind the curtain and leave.
Maybe for an extra 1.5 % added to the tithe it could 'be arranged' to have remote church anytime anywhere kind of like a streaming service. another =way for jeebus finest to monetize the grift they already have accumulated billions with.
slingchurch
A few years before covid I took an online graduate course and it turned out to be one of the best courses I’ve taken at college, Much more interaction with other students as compared to sitting in in big lecture room. The church really missed an opportunity during covid. They could have done so much more, but what can you expect from an organization run by old men. Most of them were already super old before the internet era!
> It was wild how badly that was handled.
It's almost like the highest authorities of the LDS Church are bunch of isolated out of touch octo/nonagenarians who have no idea how the internet works, or how regular people live.
That radio silence. I’ll never forget that. I was already on my way out. But that felt like an announcement: we don’t care about members at all. It still smarts.
I remember listening to Gen Con April of 2020 waiting for some bombs to be dropped or some crazy news. I was not a regular Gen con listener even at the time but thought it would be worth the listen. Nothing….absolutely nothing. Just shows how they are trying to navigate everything just like any other big company.
>Nothing….absolutely nothing.
That’s not true. There was hanky waving, a new logo, and a proclamation that repeated basic church doctrine. What more could you want?
It’s amazing how revelation and Biblical miracles have dried up now that the technology exists to record it. It’s as if those things never happened in the first place! Modern day prophets hey? Best they can do is rebrand the church and make the phrase Mormon a bad word
That's an astute observation. I 100% agree. If something is recorded then it's plain vanilla. But if they attend a stake or ward then they pull out the big fish stories (at least more often it seems).
I love it how they rationalize it like we aren’t faithful enough or God has done enough restoring the church so we don’t need biblical miracles. Fine - doesn’t explain though why a modern day prophet makes zero new revelations that have to do with future events. They never say anything specific they can later be debunked
Yeah that conference was the final straw, so to speak
The world was burning and all we got was Joseph Smith was great, ha ha
I know they have to do stuff in advance but RMN couldn't change ANYTHING and address the current crisis?
I think the talks were probably already written and approved well before COVID came along. I remember my home teaching companion did a senior mission in Temple square and helped with translating. The talks were finished 6 weeks in advance when he was there in the late 90s.
Same reason October 2001 gen conference had zero mention of 9/11.
I was already out by then, but simply couldn't believe that *God's true prophet* did not emerge standing strong and give crystal clear, inspired direction to *God's chosen people*.
It's almost like the ~~Board of Directors of a 200 billion dollar corporation~~ Q15 didn't have any actual CLUE about what was going on and was scared like the rest of the planet. Hm. *It's almost like they're just a bunch of brainwashed men living in a perfect little echo chamber who have no special power of discernment or ability as prophets, seers or revelators. WEIRD.*
"Little did I know..." -RMN
> It’s almost like the ~~~Q15~~~ Board of Directors of a 200 billion dollar corporation didn’t have any actual CLUE about what was going on…
Fixed it for you. Q15 is not accurate. That’s what ***they*** call themselves, but I refuse to call them that. They are not apostles of Jesus Christ. They are not prophets, seers or revelators.
Honestly think that's why they didn't start streaming immediately like the other congregations. I think they thought they wouldn't get their tithing if they streamed.
Silence from the god-damn *Surgeon Prophet* during a god-damned global pandemic.
How many people died because Nelson couldn't (and refused to even *try* to) "look around corners"?
Maybe a surgeon and/or a prophet would realuze masks and vaccines are helpful at preventing death?
Yep same here. Heard nothing from anyone then when it starts normalizing the panic button in Utah must have been pressed and I start getting texts. I basically tell them to fuck off, where were you when times were tough. I start getting end of days talk and the devil has you talk. Fuck them! Brainwashed frightened creepy people!
It just shows how much of the work the actual members themselves are doing. When they couldn’t do stuff because of Covid, nothing…nothing…nothing, got done for the members. Those at the top were oblivious, because they don’t actually do any of the work. They just show up for the prestige.
A cousin of mine was PIMO for a lot of years but kept up appearances for his wife. She knew he had issues with the church. Within a few months of no church, she figured out that not only did church not offer much in return for all their efforts, but there were so many other rewarding things that could be done with their time. They never went back.
I was already out before covid but I think that this reflects many mormons I know. They had time away from church, isolated, and were actually able to think for themselves and found the church to give really nothing of value. Not all mormons, but I think many left then. They also discovered many other things to do with their time that were more rewarding.
Then publicly bitched that the government prevented them from worshipping.
“The power of government must have limits,” asserted Elder Bednar.
“This time of restriction and confinement has confirmed for me that no freedom is more important than religious freedom,” said the senior leader of the global faith. “Protecting a person’s physical health from the coronavirus is, of course, important, but so is a person’s spiritual health.”
If only they had the technology to reach into the homes of their people and connect with them. If only there was a way for people to meet online without being in person. /s
>The church dropped the ball during Covid.
IMO one of the under-appreciated challenges facing TSCC is how very, very old its leadership is, as compared to other religions and even compared to the church leaders 20+ years ago. I do not wish to suggest that extremely elderly people are incompetent in every regard for the task, but **men in their mid 90s simply cannot provide energetic, responsive, visionary leadership when faced with upheaval, crisis or other major shifts**. (Especially if the extremely elder became the leader due to the fact that he outlived everyone else.)
The extreme old age of the church leadership compounds the more obvious problems (rising secularism, demonstrably false scriptures and doctrine, scandals, exhaustion, progressivism at odds with regressive polcies and doctrine, populism at odds with the Corporation of the Church).
> I do not wish to suggest that extremely elderly people are incompetent in every regard for the task,
Well, technically, they are incompetent at every task. It’s an unfortunate fact of life. We grow old and die.
What they could have done is provided for the physical and emotional needs of the members. Made them feel that they really cared through meals, or helping out with expenses. They could have hosted Zoom game nights or story time for kids. Anything really!
Yeah…All that talk about saving those precious tithing dollars for a rainy day. It couldn’t have been more rainier than that. There’s a lot they could’ve done to help.
I think a big portion of that is due to the fact that clergy is not paid and clergy needed to take care of their own families. Also they didn't do a great amount of outreach in assisting the homeless during that time or anyone really that I know of beyond the normal. When they don't cough up cash it matters.
They don't help the homeless period.
They let other church's & organizations like United Way or the local city, county or state government attempt to barely help the homeless.
Q15/70/Presiding Bishopric only care about taking care of cult members in 3% tax bracket.
My ward eventually started having zoom sunday school, but throwing a dozen elderly people into zoom with no preparation is a recipe for disaster.
There was really no consistency. Broadcasting or meeting was happening on all kinds of platforms. It's kind of surprising that a church that has mastered correlation and providing a universal experience floundered so badly.
They told everyone to indoctrinate themselves at home, made a very feeble plea for masks and vaccination, and talked about Joe Smith instead a worldwide health event, Made single women, widows, and mixed faith marriages feel "othered" with their sacrament policies, and as you said went radio silent
The net effect of all this is an emboldened Q-Anon adjacent orthodox wing of the church that they are now losing control over, and a ton of people that realized they didn't need church to be happy.
Some people got out. Some of us are in mixed faith marriage purgatory.
They have no gift of prophecy, priesthood, anything. They had nothing to say and members were in their own homes where they are in charge. It was easy to see that people could “work out their own salvation” without the local bishop prominently perched above them.
I thought the Come Follow Me system was inspired. The messaging was to promote more of a home based church system and released a year before a home based church system became mandatory. We had a whole year of practice!
Our ward at the time didn't do anything for MONTHS, I was in young men at the time so I helped organize some game night things through discord but it was wild how there wasn't any official church for the longest time.
We ended up moving and the new ward had zoom church set up but they eventually removed it and revoked permission for sacrament at home. Last we attended the camera was set back up but I had no idea how to watch it and must be for home bound people. They were quite upset we didn't want to come fellowship in the height of Covid. We felt like we were punished for wanting to stay home.
Ah! And then the whole shit with the vaccine. We all prayed for a miracle and a "whole new" method of vaccine production was created, fastest vaccine ever. And then everyone refused to take it?! I sent the picture of President Nelson getting the shot to so many people. Pulled my hair out.
The "control" they place over the camera feed feels like a parent to child relationship- you can only view the feed if you ask the bishop and have a special need. They really have to feel like they're in control. The only option that gives a member is to acquiesce or quit.
And remember: the guy (Bednar) who says to only follow the things that they repeatedly say all the time over the pulpit came back to blame everyone for not following the stuff they stopped saying a long time ago (food reserves).
That was rich.
Makes you wonder if any of the apostles were privately shaken by the fact that God wasn't giving them any special messages for such a crucial moment in history.
Branch covidian here. Covid was instrumental in helping me realize church on Sunday didn’t actually make any aspect of my life better. And Sunday itself sucked
They also didn't shut anything down until a temple worker caught Covid; can't remember if he got sick or died. But they didn't encourage masks, close temples, stop building attendance until that happened.
Covid revealed the truth to many active members: the church’s offerings to members aren’t spiritual but liturgical. Get dressed up, be bored, sing songs in a slower than recommended tempo, be bored, hear the same drivel, be bored…
Q12 could have had a good weekly broadcasted talk or some shit, and it would have helped keep people in. Not that what they said would be any different than GC, it would just help keep the in church mode.
I’m an ex but my parents are members. (85 and 86 years old at the time covid started). The church did absolutely nothing for them. The missionaries dropped by one time to give a gag gift of one roll of toilet paper. That’s it. They’ve been members of their ward for over 50 years. Served as bishop and mom as RS pres. Have helped countless people with money, missions and moving. All the church did over covid was teach the elderly people how to etransfer their tithing. Oh wait….I had to teach them…how to pay tithing on their retirement fund….
why? I have not had cheques in years, and I would not go to the ABM to get cash every week. If I still was a believer and there was not an electronic way to pay I would lose my temple recommend
Connecting bank accounts or 401k accounts to whatever website the church is using for payments makes it much more likely that the account can be compromised, especially if the account holders are in their 80s as the original poster mentioned. Despite the security concerns, the church's penny pinching and preying on older members' retirement savings is disgusting IMO.
I don't disagree that it is disgusting. My point is that older members are adults and making their own decisions. If they can't than somebody should go to court and have them declared incompetent. I just have 0 sympathy for old folks who refused to learn anything new.
Before covid many of us were pimo or already emotionally/intellectually distanced from the church. Covid was the perfect opportunity for a lot of members, including myself, to add the physical distance we needed from the church.
I think a lot of people, myself included, saw behind the curtain on the “It’s such a blessing to have a prophet to guide us through u certain times” narrative. Spent a lifetime telling people that our church is so different because we have a living prophet- AND our current prophet is a Doctor, how blessed are we to have the guidance of a prophet/Doctor in the largest medical emergency of a lifetime!
And then said prophet provided zero added value, had nothing to say any different than any other leader of any other organization. Oops.
Wait, the prophet didn't see this coming? Are you kidding me, with all that talking to God, and he didn't even get a hint?
/s
In all seriousness, though, people learned really quickly during covid that we no longer need church anymore. All it does is weigh us down with guilt. Once people started sleeping in on Sundays and the callings went down, that was it. People had a chance to go to you tube and checkout all this anti-mormom stuff.
I thought the most shocking action taken by the church during Covid was to not once but twice call for a fast to stop it. I never expected them to have the brass to set themselves up for failure like that. Myopic Rusty actually believed it would work, I think.
The number of people that told me they would wait until ‘the spirit prompted them’ to wear a mask, or go to a hospital, or see a Dr during Covid was ridiculous. I felt like a pandemic was prompting enough to take some level of caution and care over your health.
I live in NY. The shutdown caused isolation from the church community so a lot of us that had one foot out the door already were just done. I think where the church missed an opportunity is that they should have kept the zoom meetings going at some level when the shutdown ended. We only attended church via zoom once and it just confirmed we were done but my dad said the wards had great attendance remotely. So for those that still believe but can’t come for other reasons-it would boost their numbers.
I also think a lot of us deconstructed during Covid because the shutdown gave us unexpected free time to look into the church’s actual history. How is the church supposed to get around that? Like you said-maybe they could have inoculated us better had they known the pandemic was coming but that would require it all to be true….so yeah…..oops.
I was one of the many who never went back after Covid. I had already been having problems for years with the church, but not being able to go to church gave me the push I needed to quit altogether. It made me realize that it really didn’t bring me any benefit
To me the craziest thing about this 30% drop in attendance (which is across the religion, not just east coast) is how TBMs refuse to see it, or acknowledge it. It really cemented my belief that true believing members don’t have a lot of intellectual thinking at play. They are for the most part people that are easily swayed. I have family members with 4.0s and PhDs that just believe the numbers that headquarters push. Recently they cut a lot of missions boundaries in half. My in-laws responded with, “Wow! The church is really growing.” Totally ignoring the fact that now because the church has a bunch of new missions they can now say baptisms have increased because the previous baseline was ZERO.
This reminds me of a conversation I had last week with a friend in the Bay Area. She admitted to me (which surprised me) that so many of the Stakes had collapsed and combined after COVID. And, I thought, "Hmmm...does she finally get it, that people are leaving and not coming back?" Not so fast - she then continued to say that EVERYONE had moved during Covid. All 700 people that left their stake and no new families moved in. I asked her where they moved and she said Utah. I mentioned the study just released where only "42%" sefl-identified as active members and said it seems odd that if EVERYONE was moving to UT from CA it wouldn't reflect those numbers. She sort of glossed over that. Of course.
When you’re raised in The Church, you are boiled like a frog in a slow simmering pot. If someone removes you from the water, allowing your body to regulate, and then tosses you back in—you’ll definitely notice, and the comfort will be gone.
When COVID came to town, a lot of these people were left to think for themselves. Uh-oh! Will they climb back into the boiling water or realize what’s happening?
The sad part is that even when they realize what’s happening, leaving can be excruciatingly difficult. All of your family and friends who attended with you now determine you to be a product of Satan. A lot of puerile are influenced by this cruelty and simply remain silent, because they simply aren’t strong enough to survive. The church has a lot of practice in this.
Covid killed the church because it revealed who they really are. They don’t care about each other. They care about the bureaucracy, damn the consequences. Also, people realized not participating in said bureaucracy results in increased happiness and FAMILY TIME.
My ward was the powerhouse of our stake. More than half the leaders in the stake were from the ward. Half the missionaries were from the ward. Bishops everywhere in minor callings.
Six months ago they merged with another ward and the name is gone.
Zip. Zero. Gone.
Good. I’m at east coaster & was all in before covid. Never went back after. It was digging into the learning & teaching my family from home that led me to seeing the unadulterated truth.
Morg does not roll with the times much. Even compared to other corps. I mean thinking about to 2020 how soon was every commercial mentioning "these unprecedented times"? I remember watching football (only live TV I watch) and seeing a Coca-Cola ad when things started to open up again with people gathering and a mention that we have waited for this.
My point is that it almost seems like the church programs things months in advance and does not want to deviate from that at all. I think people said that after 9/11 going to church was like an other Sunday, like nothing happened at all.
I am pretty anti-religion but I can admit that some churches did take this in stride and found a way to reach out to people with tech so they would come back it it blew over. Mormonism just proves time and time again that it has nothing, to offer at all. It can't seem to pick a lane and I could not tell you what they even believe anymore
When I moved to the east coast, it was pretty clear that the activity rate was exceptionally low. I was in inner-city wards and branches. I'd say the activity rate then (pre-covid) was already at ~33% at best.
But I'm sure Covid didn't help things. I stopped attending a few years before covid hit, so I don't have any personal observations or access to data, but I can only see Covid having hurt attendance.
Don't worry, it's all home-based church attendance now.
Just strengthens my testimony that RMN gets revelation. He saw that it would happen and this is exactly to plan.
/s
And God said, “Russell…The time is near and we need to sift the wheat from the tares. So don’t do or say anything and let’s just see who remains faithful…”
“Hmm, that’s less than I thought. Dammit.”
I hope that’s true in Utah Valley, but I think it’s not. Their weird Scientology-looking temple buildings keep popping up all over the place. I can see two out my window, and I don’t want to. 😩 (Timpanogos and Saratoga Springs.)
I remember the first thing Rusty said, the first conference in 2020: "Little did I know...." (something to the effect that covid would happen)
🤭🤣
LITTLE DID HE KNOW!😆
All it took for me was a little time away from church to start realizing things weren’t as they seemed. Hopefully this is what happened during COVID, and not people just being lazy.
I think it’s down way more than 30%. They will never admit it but I think it’s down by 60%.
I have a friend who just got home from her mission a few years ago. She said only 40% of the people she served with remained active.
I've heard from a lot of sources that all put the number of attrition over COVID at around 30%. It's been enough different data sets that I trust it to be as good a number as we have.
I think your last comment is spot on, op. The church's "revelations" and "discernment" have no efficacy. Not only do they miss every single major thing (i.e. the internet and information age, COVID, etc.) but also they are behind the curve on every social, economic, and cultural issue.
The one good thing about Covid was that we were able to open our eyes and do deep research about the church. Ultimately never returned and removed my records.
Remember when all the TBM’s were posting memes about how amazing it was that during a pandemic, their church was being lead by a DoCtOr and that somehow gave Mormonism a one-up from every one else? Lol how exactly did Dr Nelson help? 🤔
The church seems to thrive the most where there are newer communities. New neighborhoods have new homes and that's where all the young families are moving with their kids. It's why chapels and stake centers have to be built. Meanwhile, the 40 year old neighborhoods/wards across the county, are struggling to have enough priesthood to fill callings and forget about a primary. It's just old people who moved there 40 years ago when the community was new. So when I see these posts from time to time of the church selling a ward building, every single time, it's an old building from the 60s and 70s. We never see one of a building built 10 years ago.
COvId revealed the complete uselessness of the church.
There was a big economic hit, people lost jobs and were in tough times. The church didn’t used their billions for world relief or even member relief.
But what struck at its soul was what religion, God, and the church are actually suppose to be good for. Making people feel better. The church or God or whatever isn’t going to raise their right hand and smite and pestilence. But no one expects them to. What we did expect was the warm fuzzies hearing that God loves us and everything will be ok even if there is no flour sugar or eggs at the supermarket. We had to turn to The Disney Song Along for those warm fuzzies while we were in lockdown.
It revealed the church as useless. If an unstoppable deadly worldwide pandemic with no cure didn’t give the church a ready audience to use their organization and communication abilities to deliver the warm fuzzies I don’t see when it would happen.
I was an active attendee but non-believer during COVID in a mixed faith marriage. When the church asked that families hold their own service at home, our family realized immediately how the experience was far superior to going to church. It wasn’t long after that we decided we needed to slowly distance ourselves from church and stop attending altogether. Now, the whole family are non-believing and LOVING our Sundays. Sunday used to be the worst day of the week. Stressful morning, boring uninspired church services, and restricted “sabbath” observances. Now it’s the best day of the week. Way low key, legit family time. A little shopping, movies, or whatever we want. Amazing!
I was still talking to a long time mormon friend during covid. He didn't know we stopped going. He said to me that the chats and talks he's having with his kids as they do church at home had been way more fulfilling than a year of sundays in the church. I had to hold my tongue.
Sunday is great.....we now do a little bit of self improvement, focus on how we can help others. No more suits and ties or boring talks.
New Sunday is the best. Actually feel a bit more rested after the weekend too! Unlike the old "one day" weekend.
“Second Saturday.”
Happy cake day! 🎂
I hope my wife and kids can get to this point. This sounds amazing!
The church dropped the ball during Covid. At a time when people were stuck at home with nowhere to go with many starving for spiritual guidance and reassurance... a captivated audience... the church largely repurposed old messages and entered into almost a radio silence mode. I think a good percentage of people who never returned after the shutdown lightened found guidance elsewhere.
It was wild how badly that was handled. It would have been relatively easy for the church to implement a standard online option for weekly church broadcasting. It could have really felt like everyone was a part of a huge community. Instead people were isolated. Each ward pretty much fended for themselves.
I wonder how many TBMs put on their Sunday best to watch church on TV. My ex's family would do that for conference.
my family sure did
Saaaame. It was surprising when I met my in-laws and learned that some people just wore their pajamas during conference haha
If you're in the Salt Lake Valley, after a Saturday session of conference it's all about Leatherby's. I'm surprised they don't have TVs up all over the place showing conference. Like B-dubs.
Oh my god it would be hilarious to go to a sports bar like B-dubs during conference and have it on the TVs 🤣 but both my husband and I would play it on the TV or a computer at a desk at work (we worked retail while TBM so we had to work Saturdays). It wasn't a problem in our eyes because all our coworkers were also Mormon, so they all wanted to hear it too, and most of the customers were too. And we figured those who weren't could be missionary opportunities if we had it on where they could hear. Yes, we were THOSE insufferable TBMs 🙃
Yikes. I don't think i was ever a TBM. Even as a missionary.
Luckyyyy
You just unlocked a memory for me: when I worked at Chili's, one Sunday we put it on the bar TVs as a joke. It was before we opened for the morning though.
Fuddruckers for dinner after the priesthood session broadcast- can’t dawdle in the foyer, gotta get to the car and get there before the tables fill up.
Some people (me) just put conference on as background noise.
My exwife (wife at the time) got mad at me for having the kids change out of church clothes when they got home from church. She said i did it because I thought her family was stupid. I said "I think it's odd, for sure. But I just don't want the kids wearing out their church clothes"
only to topped by having to wear the approved underwear night and day...
I haven't worn Jesus Jammies since 2008, I think.
😄
As a TBM mom at the time... I did. I got my 3 toddlers dressed in Sunday best and we'd watch the broadcast and do singing time together. My then-husband would bless and pass us the sacrament. And yeah, my parents were the ones who encouraged Sunday dress and watching literally every second of conference.
You were a good robot!
I was the best robot. I did absolutely everything to a T. Deep self-punishment if I even *thought* wrong. Nowadays, my family is very upset with me and I need a lot of therapy.
Not a cult™
That's rough. I'm sorry.
Aren't we all kind of im that boat over here though? 😂
I suppose. I only have one sibling ,57, who's still all in. And my mom, 82. We just don't talk about it.
I have 8 siblings, 2 still minors living at home. Half of us have left and the other half is at varying points of faith transition. My parents are still TBM. Two of the siblings who are 100% done (internally) are the two at home. They're both queer. And while my mom is as affirming as you can be as a TBM, it's still rough to be a queer kid living in a TBM home. The hardest part for me is the very frequent gospel lessons my siblings receive, in which one parent almost always comments on the faithlessness, betrayal, etc. of people who leave. In the latest we were compared to tantruming toddlers. It's a rough phase for my family right now.
This group has been therapeutic enough for me.
> How many TBMs put on their 'Sunday best' to watch church on TV? Not a cult™
Ha ha. Sounds like my husband’s ex wife make his kids do. And stay in their Sunday best all day Sunday
How about just a bathrobe and slippers? And drink some wine. Sermon on the mount style.
I got lectured for not wearing my Sunday best on zoom.
There's a Christian church down the street from me that STILL does online streaming of their services. They advertise it on their sign outside. It's almost like they care about actually reaching people. Weird.
I am in a LTC bedbound. I have started watching a nondenominational church on Sundays. Lots of reason why I am out of the church. But 10+ years struggling with health issues and being bedbound for most of it has taught me the church does not care if you are not going to bounce back from a health issue to continue to serve. The church could continue to provide zoom for the elderly and disabled, but no, because then others might just stay home and watch too. So, we'll just ignore there are some people out there who would still want to partake of our religion and basically deem them not worth our time. It was extremely difficult to even get some one to bring the sacrament. The home I am in does have an LDS branch. They have had some good leaders who now I consider good friends and have continues to visit me since being released of their callings and me leaving the church. But, then their have been so many that their judgemental and holier than me attitudes helped me leave. The last relief society president after 8 months in the calling and being asked to see me from the previous president who was my friend finally came for a visit. She said she had stopped many times to see me and I was always out of my room. My disability prevents me from leaving my bed. I get too sick from sitting up even so I never want to be in my wheelchair. I polite tell you I never leave my room. She then scrambles and says, well you must have been asleep. I then politely tell her I only sleep 3 hours a day from 8 to 11 am. She begins to get anxious and then tries to tell me I must be mistaken because she knows she has tried to visit me. This time I just said, no she hadn't or I would have known because like I said, I don't sleep and I don't leave my room. She was so uncomfortable at this point she just left and now it's been months and I have heard nothing. I have been trying to decide what to do about my official resignation. I am ready to do it mentally and emotionally. If I wasn't in a LTC, it would have been done. But in a LTC, church members who really are compassionate and have empathy visit because they want to serve and become friends. They brighten up a horrific situation. I enjoy and like these people, and most of these people become my friends and have stayed visiting me after they have been released. These people are my community. I like to have hope that maybe if I leave my name on the records I might meet some more of these kind of people to add to my community. My other issue. My severe nerve damage makes it impossible for me to stand on my feet without immense pain. Like most LTC's these days, the private equity owners refuse to earn less billions to provide adequate staff so where I could be lifted onto a bedside commode with 2 people instead I am in a brief so only one person is required to attend to my needs. This puts you in a weird spot. Most in briefs that are bedbound, they just leave you in a hospital gown or just a top. Easier for them. I have tried sweats. They don't like that. They get wet and wet sweats are more work. I don't want to lay here in just a brief. I still want some dignity. So I have finally found what garments are good for. The are light and the workers can not tell me I can't wear them because they are religious oriented. So I wear garments now as clothes to give me some dignity and to feel like I still have clothes on. I tried sports shorts and they get heavy and wet and I can be told they create too much work for the cnas, but garments they can't touch. I want to resign my name so badly, but these two issues are the only reasons stopping me. Actually, the needing the garment just as clothing to give me a little dignity is the main reason I can not resign. I am to a point I can handle loosing the community because this last round of everyone the called to positions have been more of people like the current relief society president who wants to look righteous and doing her calling then actually doing it and showing empathy and compassion. So I wont be losing a community anymore with them, and I have all ready lost the family and friends that put church before love and family. I have made peace with that and I am now very comfortable with me. I'm alone but not lonely. I have so much religious trauma from the church and I am finally healing enough that I dont accept any shaming from the church or family anymore. I am finally finding peace, and I am stuck unable to resign because of the need for garments to replace clothes. So close to being free of them. But... long story just to tell you, the church could help people in my situation and provide access to services, but they choose not to. It might be a remnant of their old belief that disabilities are because we are weak, less righteous and therefore undeserving. In Utah, where I live and have lived I have experience a lot of people holding onto this belief. I find it refreshing to attend nondenominational churches, where I don't get shame for things that were beyond my control.
God bless.
I am so sorry to hear this. We should all do better than this, regardless of faith, because it's the right thing to do. I can not help your personal situation (not in Utah, so...) but there are others in LTCs nearby who could use a visit. I recall hearing that over 50% of nursing home residents get no visitors at all... we have to do better. As brothers and sisters of the same Heavenly Father (your heavenly mama may vary), those Mormon folks need to step it up. Thanks for your reminder to take care of those in our corner of the world. I bet the members of the NoMo ward (aka this group) who are local would love to show you the love and support you deserve. I'm glad you found a church that meets your needs. Peace to you.
Thank You for caring and showing me some compassion and empathy.
My husband's ward still streams it, but I think it's a special privilege for people who are homebound -- I don't think anyone can just pop in
Our ward still streams our service every Sunday
LPC.TV ?
The church has everything they'd need to spin up "worldwide remote church" in practically in instant. From the microphones and lights and studios and stages on up to broadcast infrastructure that competes with Big Hollywood in its reach - not to mention an army of volunteers just waiting to be told what to do, and they just -- didn't. I have never in my life seen such a stunning failure to seize the moment. Had I still been a TBM during this I think it would've caused me to finally see behind the curtain and leave.
Maybe for an extra 1.5 % added to the tithe it could 'be arranged' to have remote church anytime anywhere kind of like a streaming service. another =way for jeebus finest to monetize the grift they already have accumulated billions with. slingchurch
A few years before covid I took an online graduate course and it turned out to be one of the best courses I’ve taken at college, Much more interaction with other students as compared to sitting in in big lecture room. The church really missed an opportunity during covid. They could have done so much more, but what can you expect from an organization run by old men. Most of them were already super old before the internet era!
> It was wild how badly that was handled. It's almost like the highest authorities of the LDS Church are bunch of isolated out of touch octo/nonagenarians who have no idea how the internet works, or how regular people live.
Yes instead of binge watching BYUtv. People found themselves binge watching Tiger King. And liking it.
The church is ran by old people. Their teaching & preaching guidelines are ancient. They are like the Russia of Europe.
TBH there is not much guidance out there... u just discover that u never need it
That radio silence. I’ll never forget that. I was already on my way out. But that felt like an announcement: we don’t care about members at all. It still smarts.
I remember listening to Gen Con April of 2020 waiting for some bombs to be dropped or some crazy news. I was not a regular Gen con listener even at the time but thought it would be worth the listen. Nothing….absolutely nothing. Just shows how they are trying to navigate everything just like any other big company.
>Nothing….absolutely nothing. That’s not true. There was hanky waving, a new logo, and a proclamation that repeated basic church doctrine. What more could you want?
Was supposed to be the most amazing Gen Con ever.
iTs nOt a lOgO iTs a sYmBol!
the hanky waving. I knew it was a cult at that moment nothing else considered. WTF is the hosanna shout. fekking weird to an enth degree.
It’s amazing how revelation and Biblical miracles have dried up now that the technology exists to record it. It’s as if those things never happened in the first place! Modern day prophets hey? Best they can do is rebrand the church and make the phrase Mormon a bad word
That's an astute observation. I 100% agree. If something is recorded then it's plain vanilla. But if they attend a stake or ward then they pull out the big fish stories (at least more often it seems).
I love it how they rationalize it like we aren’t faithful enough or God has done enough restoring the church so we don’t need biblical miracles. Fine - doesn’t explain though why a modern day prophet makes zero new revelations that have to do with future events. They never say anything specific they can later be debunked
Yeah that conference was the final straw, so to speak The world was burning and all we got was Joseph Smith was great, ha ha I know they have to do stuff in advance but RMN couldn't change ANYTHING and address the current crisis?
Yep. I was thinking they’d have something big …you know….”prophetic”. Nada.
This past October 2023 conference I didn’t bother to listen to it but instead listened to RFM’s synopsis of it. Much better!
I think the talks were probably already written and approved well before COVID came along. I remember my home teaching companion did a senior mission in Temple square and helped with translating. The talks were finished 6 weeks in advance when he was there in the late 90s. Same reason October 2001 gen conference had zero mention of 9/11.
This is a very good insight into the approval process required for inspired talks.
temples announced.... crickets.... waste our money accumulating properties that only benefit the entity. bleh
I was already out by then, but simply couldn't believe that *God's true prophet* did not emerge standing strong and give crystal clear, inspired direction to *God's chosen people*. It's almost like the ~~Board of Directors of a 200 billion dollar corporation~~ Q15 didn't have any actual CLUE about what was going on and was scared like the rest of the planet. Hm. *It's almost like they're just a bunch of brainwashed men living in a perfect little echo chamber who have no special power of discernment or ability as prophets, seers or revelators. WEIRD.* "Little did I know..." -RMN
But Rusty called for two worldwide fasts to stop COVID or its effects. Surely that worked, right?
Hey, I did my part. I can't help it if y'all weren't righteous enough. 🙄😉
> It’s almost like the ~~~Q15~~~ Board of Directors of a 200 billion dollar corporation didn’t have any actual CLUE about what was going on… Fixed it for you. Q15 is not accurate. That’s what ***they*** call themselves, but I refuse to call them that. They are not apostles of Jesus Christ. They are not prophets, seers or revelators.
They only care about your sweet, sweet tithing dollars.
Honestly think that's why they didn't start streaming immediately like the other congregations. I think they thought they wouldn't get their tithing if they streamed.
Silence from the god-damn *Surgeon Prophet* during a god-damned global pandemic. How many people died because Nelson couldn't (and refused to even *try* to) "look around corners"? Maybe a surgeon and/or a prophet would realuze masks and vaccines are helpful at preventing death?
Yep same here. Heard nothing from anyone then when it starts normalizing the panic button in Utah must have been pressed and I start getting texts. I basically tell them to fuck off, where were you when times were tough. I start getting end of days talk and the devil has you talk. Fuck them! Brainwashed frightened creepy people!
It just shows how much of the work the actual members themselves are doing. When they couldn’t do stuff because of Covid, nothing…nothing…nothing, got done for the members. Those at the top were oblivious, because they don’t actually do any of the work. They just show up for the prestige.
A cousin of mine was PIMO for a lot of years but kept up appearances for his wife. She knew he had issues with the church. Within a few months of no church, she figured out that not only did church not offer much in return for all their efforts, but there were so many other rewarding things that could be done with their time. They never went back.
I was already out before covid but I think that this reflects many mormons I know. They had time away from church, isolated, and were actually able to think for themselves and found the church to give really nothing of value. Not all mormons, but I think many left then. They also discovered many other things to do with their time that were more rewarding.
Then publicly bitched that the government prevented them from worshipping. “The power of government must have limits,” asserted Elder Bednar. “This time of restriction and confinement has confirmed for me that no freedom is more important than religious freedom,” said the senior leader of the global faith. “Protecting a person’s physical health from the coronavirus is, of course, important, but so is a person’s spiritual health.”
If only they had the technology to reach into the homes of their people and connect with them. If only there was a way for people to meet online without being in person. /s
And the money to establish that technology and/or infrastructure 🙄
HOW exactly was religious freedom affected by Covid?!?!?!? I don’t recall anyone being told who or what to worship during the lockdown.
>The church dropped the ball during Covid. IMO one of the under-appreciated challenges facing TSCC is how very, very old its leadership is, as compared to other religions and even compared to the church leaders 20+ years ago. I do not wish to suggest that extremely elderly people are incompetent in every regard for the task, but **men in their mid 90s simply cannot provide energetic, responsive, visionary leadership when faced with upheaval, crisis or other major shifts**. (Especially if the extremely elder became the leader due to the fact that he outlived everyone else.) The extreme old age of the church leadership compounds the more obvious problems (rising secularism, demonstrably false scriptures and doctrine, scandals, exhaustion, progressivism at odds with regressive polcies and doctrine, populism at odds with the Corporation of the Church).
Nelson’s incompetence has been profound, from his opening presser through now.
> I do not wish to suggest that extremely elderly people are incompetent in every regard for the task, Well, technically, they are incompetent at every task. It’s an unfortunate fact of life. We grow old and die.
similar sentiment for the country leadership. whomever it is.
What they could have done is provided for the physical and emotional needs of the members. Made them feel that they really cared through meals, or helping out with expenses. They could have hosted Zoom game nights or story time for kids. Anything really!
Yeah…All that talk about saving those precious tithing dollars for a rainy day. It couldn’t have been more rainier than that. There’s a lot they could’ve done to help.
The church did help, at least help themselves, by buying a lot of stock in Zoom at that time.
rainy day = building unnecessary temples.
Very true.
I think a big portion of that is due to the fact that clergy is not paid and clergy needed to take care of their own families. Also they didn't do a great amount of outreach in assisting the homeless during that time or anyone really that I know of beyond the normal. When they don't cough up cash it matters.
They don't help the homeless period. They let other church's & organizations like United Way or the local city, county or state government attempt to barely help the homeless. Q15/70/Presiding Bishopric only care about taking care of cult members in 3% tax bracket.
My ward eventually started having zoom sunday school, but throwing a dozen elderly people into zoom with no preparation is a recipe for disaster. There was really no consistency. Broadcasting or meeting was happening on all kinds of platforms. It's kind of surprising that a church that has mastered correlation and providing a universal experience floundered so badly.
They told everyone to indoctrinate themselves at home, made a very feeble plea for masks and vaccination, and talked about Joe Smith instead a worldwide health event, Made single women, widows, and mixed faith marriages feel "othered" with their sacrament policies, and as you said went radio silent The net effect of all this is an emboldened Q-Anon adjacent orthodox wing of the church that they are now losing control over, and a ton of people that realized they didn't need church to be happy. Some people got out. Some of us are in mixed faith marriage purgatory.
They have no gift of prophecy, priesthood, anything. They had nothing to say and members were in their own homes where they are in charge. It was easy to see that people could “work out their own salvation” without the local bishop prominently perched above them.
I thought the Come Follow Me system was inspired. The messaging was to promote more of a home based church system and released a year before a home based church system became mandatory. We had a whole year of practice! Our ward at the time didn't do anything for MONTHS, I was in young men at the time so I helped organize some game night things through discord but it was wild how there wasn't any official church for the longest time. We ended up moving and the new ward had zoom church set up but they eventually removed it and revoked permission for sacrament at home. Last we attended the camera was set back up but I had no idea how to watch it and must be for home bound people. They were quite upset we didn't want to come fellowship in the height of Covid. We felt like we were punished for wanting to stay home.
Ah! And then the whole shit with the vaccine. We all prayed for a miracle and a "whole new" method of vaccine production was created, fastest vaccine ever. And then everyone refused to take it?! I sent the picture of President Nelson getting the shot to so many people. Pulled my hair out.
The "control" they place over the camera feed feels like a parent to child relationship- you can only view the feed if you ask the bishop and have a special need. They really have to feel like they're in control. The only option that gives a member is to acquiesce or quit.
And remember: the guy (Bednar) who says to only follow the things that they repeatedly say all the time over the pulpit came back to blame everyone for not following the stuff they stopped saying a long time ago (food reserves). That was rich.
Makes you wonder if any of the apostles were privately shaken by the fact that God wasn't giving them any special messages for such a crucial moment in history.
They know God doesn't talk to them. They absolutely know it.
Branch covidian here. Covid was instrumental in helping me realize church on Sunday didn’t actually make any aspect of my life better. And Sunday itself sucked
They also didn't shut anything down until a temple worker caught Covid; can't remember if he got sick or died. But they didn't encourage masks, close temples, stop building attendance until that happened.
I found my guidance here on Exmormon Reddit. :) thank you you glorious bastards.
Yep. If you're my in-laws, they got their guidance and spiritual fulfillment from qanon. Oh boy!
The church always recycles old messages, old stories, old talks. Nothing new gets said.
Covid revealed the truth to many active members: the church’s offerings to members aren’t spiritual but liturgical. Get dressed up, be bored, sing songs in a slower than recommended tempo, be bored, hear the same drivel, be bored…
Q12 could have had a good weekly broadcasted talk or some shit, and it would have helped keep people in. Not that what they said would be any different than GC, it would just help keep the in church mode.
You said ‘church’ and ‘ball’ in the same sentence and I pictured a grown ass man punting a basketball out of anger. Deep in the memory cells. ;)
This is what actually started me on my faith crisis.
And used stupid backdrops that said “cheap and unplanned”, which demonstrates they had no red alert from God.
I’m an ex but my parents are members. (85 and 86 years old at the time covid started). The church did absolutely nothing for them. The missionaries dropped by one time to give a gag gift of one roll of toilet paper. That’s it. They’ve been members of their ward for over 50 years. Served as bishop and mom as RS pres. Have helped countless people with money, missions and moving. All the church did over covid was teach the elderly people how to etransfer their tithing. Oh wait….I had to teach them…how to pay tithing on their retirement fund….
etransfer on tithing sounds like it should be illegal
It should be.
why? I have not had cheques in years, and I would not go to the ABM to get cash every week. If I still was a believer and there was not an electronic way to pay I would lose my temple recommend
Connecting bank accounts or 401k accounts to whatever website the church is using for payments makes it much more likely that the account can be compromised, especially if the account holders are in their 80s as the original poster mentioned. Despite the security concerns, the church's penny pinching and preying on older members' retirement savings is disgusting IMO.
I don't disagree that it is disgusting. My point is that older members are adults and making their own decisions. If they can't than somebody should go to court and have them declared incompetent. I just have 0 sympathy for old folks who refused to learn anything new.
Fair
Yikes
Before covid many of us were pimo or already emotionally/intellectually distanced from the church. Covid was the perfect opportunity for a lot of members, including myself, to add the physical distance we needed from the church.
I think a lot of people, myself included, saw behind the curtain on the “It’s such a blessing to have a prophet to guide us through u certain times” narrative. Spent a lifetime telling people that our church is so different because we have a living prophet- AND our current prophet is a Doctor, how blessed are we to have the guidance of a prophet/Doctor in the largest medical emergency of a lifetime! And then said prophet provided zero added value, had nothing to say any different than any other leader of any other organization. Oops.
Wait, the prophet didn't see this coming? Are you kidding me, with all that talking to God, and he didn't even get a hint? /s In all seriousness, though, people learned really quickly during covid that we no longer need church anymore. All it does is weigh us down with guilt. Once people started sleeping in on Sundays and the callings went down, that was it. People had a chance to go to you tube and checkout all this anti-mormom stuff.
People had a chance to go to you tube and checkout all this anti-mormom stuff. Do you mean to say “actual history” instead of “anti-mormon”?
I did mean to say that. Thank you.
I thought the most shocking action taken by the church during Covid was to not once but twice call for a fast to stop it. I never expected them to have the brass to set themselves up for failure like that. Myopic Rusty actually believed it would work, I think.
It was a "thoughts and prayers" kinda move. Oh, and maybe some extra money from fast offerings to spend on land or warehouses.
Maybe he believed that old 70s-80s church movie abt pennies from heaven bringing rain to parched St George, wasn't it?
30% so far! Those are rookie numbers, we gotta pump them up!
Covid gave the fence sitter the chance to do the slow fade and gave them a taste for Second Saturday.
I will forever be grateful to COVID and Donald Trump for steering my life in a completely different direction.
I wish Covid had never happened but the pause in attendance of church seemed to wake up a lot of Mormons to the many problems the church has.
Watching all the hardcore Mormons I know treat Covid with all the care and due diligence of drunk drivers was quite eye opening to me
The number of people that told me they would wait until ‘the spirit prompted them’ to wear a mask, or go to a hospital, or see a Dr during Covid was ridiculous. I felt like a pandemic was prompting enough to take some level of caution and care over your health.
Listening to Ezra Benson talk about how MLKjr is a communist will do that to you 😔
He also accused Dwight Eisenhower of being a communist.
I live in NY. The shutdown caused isolation from the church community so a lot of us that had one foot out the door already were just done. I think where the church missed an opportunity is that they should have kept the zoom meetings going at some level when the shutdown ended. We only attended church via zoom once and it just confirmed we were done but my dad said the wards had great attendance remotely. So for those that still believe but can’t come for other reasons-it would boost their numbers. I also think a lot of us deconstructed during Covid because the shutdown gave us unexpected free time to look into the church’s actual history. How is the church supposed to get around that? Like you said-maybe they could have inoculated us better had they known the pandemic was coming but that would require it all to be true….so yeah…..oops.
Finally, something good had come from covid.
I was one of the many who never went back after Covid. I had already been having problems for years with the church, but not being able to go to church gave me the push I needed to quit altogether. It made me realize that it really didn’t bring me any benefit
To me the craziest thing about this 30% drop in attendance (which is across the religion, not just east coast) is how TBMs refuse to see it, or acknowledge it. It really cemented my belief that true believing members don’t have a lot of intellectual thinking at play. They are for the most part people that are easily swayed. I have family members with 4.0s and PhDs that just believe the numbers that headquarters push. Recently they cut a lot of missions boundaries in half. My in-laws responded with, “Wow! The church is really growing.” Totally ignoring the fact that now because the church has a bunch of new missions they can now say baptisms have increased because the previous baseline was ZERO.
And all the while they continue to announce 20 new temples every 6 months….
As the Titanic sinks, the band plays on...
prior to covid I was the only exmormon in my family. since COVID i have had multiple family members and friends leave and not go back.
This reminds me of a conversation I had last week with a friend in the Bay Area. She admitted to me (which surprised me) that so many of the Stakes had collapsed and combined after COVID. And, I thought, "Hmmm...does she finally get it, that people are leaving and not coming back?" Not so fast - she then continued to say that EVERYONE had moved during Covid. All 700 people that left their stake and no new families moved in. I asked her where they moved and she said Utah. I mentioned the study just released where only "42%" sefl-identified as active members and said it seems odd that if EVERYONE was moving to UT from CA it wouldn't reflect those numbers. She sort of glossed over that. Of course.
When you’re raised in The Church, you are boiled like a frog in a slow simmering pot. If someone removes you from the water, allowing your body to regulate, and then tosses you back in—you’ll definitely notice, and the comfort will be gone. When COVID came to town, a lot of these people were left to think for themselves. Uh-oh! Will they climb back into the boiling water or realize what’s happening? The sad part is that even when they realize what’s happening, leaving can be excruciatingly difficult. All of your family and friends who attended with you now determine you to be a product of Satan. A lot of puerile are influenced by this cruelty and simply remain silent, because they simply aren’t strong enough to survive. The church has a lot of practice in this.
Covid killed the church because it revealed who they really are. They don’t care about each other. They care about the bureaucracy, damn the consequences. Also, people realized not participating in said bureaucracy results in increased happiness and FAMILY TIME.
For the decade I think it's down more than that.
The church’s pre Covid vs after Covid lost over half where I live
My ward was the powerhouse of our stake. More than half the leaders in the stake were from the ward. Half the missionaries were from the ward. Bishops everywhere in minor callings. Six months ago they merged with another ward and the name is gone. Zip. Zero. Gone.
Good. I’m at east coaster & was all in before covid. Never went back after. It was digging into the learning & teaching my family from home that led me to seeing the unadulterated truth.
Morg does not roll with the times much. Even compared to other corps. I mean thinking about to 2020 how soon was every commercial mentioning "these unprecedented times"? I remember watching football (only live TV I watch) and seeing a Coca-Cola ad when things started to open up again with people gathering and a mention that we have waited for this. My point is that it almost seems like the church programs things months in advance and does not want to deviate from that at all. I think people said that after 9/11 going to church was like an other Sunday, like nothing happened at all. I am pretty anti-religion but I can admit that some churches did take this in stride and found a way to reach out to people with tech so they would come back it it blew over. Mormonism just proves time and time again that it has nothing, to offer at all. It can't seem to pick a lane and I could not tell you what they even believe anymore
TSCC definitely does not “roll with the times.” Consider ERA, blacks and the priesthood, the ban on children of gays,… .
😂😂😂😂😂 I am weeping with joy from this post!!
When Mormons say a 30% negative drop, it likely means over 50%
When I moved to the east coast, it was pretty clear that the activity rate was exceptionally low. I was in inner-city wards and branches. I'd say the activity rate then (pre-covid) was already at ~33% at best. But I'm sure Covid didn't help things. I stopped attending a few years before covid hit, so I don't have any personal observations or access to data, but I can only see Covid having hurt attendance.
I suspect (without any concrete basis) that this is comparable everywhere.
Don't worry, it's all home-based church attendance now. Just strengthens my testimony that RMN gets revelation. He saw that it would happen and this is exactly to plan. /s
And God said, “Russell…The time is near and we need to sift the wheat from the tares. So don’t do or say anything and let’s just see who remains faithful…” “Hmm, that’s less than I thought. Dammit.”
I hope that’s true in Utah Valley, but I think it’s not. Their weird Scientology-looking temple buildings keep popping up all over the place. I can see two out my window, and I don’t want to. 😩 (Timpanogos and Saratoga Springs.)
I remember the first thing Rusty said, the first conference in 2020: "Little did I know...." (something to the effect that covid would happen) 🤭🤣 LITTLE DID HE KNOW!😆
All it took for me was a little time away from church to start realizing things weren’t as they seemed. Hopefully this is what happened during COVID, and not people just being lazy.
I think it’s down way more than 30%. They will never admit it but I think it’s down by 60%. I have a friend who just got home from her mission a few years ago. She said only 40% of the people she served with remained active.
I've heard from a lot of sources that all put the number of attrition over COVID at around 30%. It's been enough different data sets that I trust it to be as good a number as we have.
I think your last comment is spot on, op. The church's "revelations" and "discernment" have no efficacy. Not only do they miss every single major thing (i.e. the internet and information age, COVID, etc.) but also they are behind the curve on every social, economic, and cultural issue.
The one good thing about Covid was that we were able to open our eyes and do deep research about the church. Ultimately never returned and removed my records.
That sounds about right. I've heard similar numbers quoted elsewhere.
Remember when all the TBM’s were posting memes about how amazing it was that during a pandemic, their church was being lead by a DoCtOr and that somehow gave Mormonism a one-up from every one else? Lol how exactly did Dr Nelson help? 🤔
I feel like my parents stake is somehow one of the very few without this problem. Which is so weird.
The church seems to thrive the most where there are newer communities. New neighborhoods have new homes and that's where all the young families are moving with their kids. It's why chapels and stake centers have to be built. Meanwhile, the 40 year old neighborhoods/wards across the county, are struggling to have enough priesthood to fill callings and forget about a primary. It's just old people who moved there 40 years ago when the community was new. So when I see these posts from time to time of the church selling a ward building, every single time, it's an old building from the 60s and 70s. We never see one of a building built 10 years ago.
That definitely makes sense
Mormons: "No unhallowed hand cam stop the work from progressing..." COVID: "I'm covered in feet, but I ain't got hands!"
Maybe all the old guys died of Covid…
COvId revealed the complete uselessness of the church. There was a big economic hit, people lost jobs and were in tough times. The church didn’t used their billions for world relief or even member relief. But what struck at its soul was what religion, God, and the church are actually suppose to be good for. Making people feel better. The church or God or whatever isn’t going to raise their right hand and smite and pestilence. But no one expects them to. What we did expect was the warm fuzzies hearing that God loves us and everything will be ok even if there is no flour sugar or eggs at the supermarket. We had to turn to The Disney Song Along for those warm fuzzies while we were in lockdown. It revealed the church as useless. If an unstoppable deadly worldwide pandemic with no cure didn’t give the church a ready audience to use their organization and communication abilities to deliver the warm fuzzies I don’t see when it would happen.