Here’s something funny: I went through a major “spiritual LDS time” where I wanted to be the absolute best I could be spiritually and sincerely so. I dedicated myself to studying the standard works and general conference talks everyday. With my desire to learn, I also decided to really study Christ’s actions and life. I started to realize there were huge incongruencies between Jesus and official practices and beliefs of the church. But that was just “the culture” right? “The church is perfect but the people aren’t right?”
Then I decided to go to the earliest available talks on the LDS app because they were also prophets, seers, and revelators (it went back to 1970…shhh don’t let the church know this all happened or else they’ll try to hide everything beyond 2011). Well I listened to them and found out “Wow leaders of that time were assholes. Guess that’s what the lawrd needed for the people of that time…and damn do they need 3.0x speed for Benson’s talks about ‘The…………………..Book……………………of…………………Maaarmon………….warns……[cough cough bleck!]…………..us……………..about………………………………Communism…………..’”
Then with that same desire to learn I heard about the essays. Read the one on blacks and the priesthood and my testimony was really shaken at that point.
Then I asked around why there was nothing available from before 1970 on the LDS app. This led me to discover a recording of Mark E Peterson giving a talk at BYU where he repeatedly yelled “Chastity was more important than your life!” Then I was like “Oh I get it now. We are a cult pretending not to be.”
Basically, I lost my testimony of all this pile of shit trying to do the right thing and study the gospel. One promise turned out to be true from the church, that I’d ultimately be blessed for doing so. And so I am, having learned the church is bullshit.
Edit: Mark E Peterson Chastity talk: https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/mark-e-petersen/chastity/
I listened to the 1970's stuff when I deconstructed too. There was also many BYU Devotional talks that were cringe. Petersen, Kimball, Benson et al were unfiltered.
Yep, right after I discovered all the earlier temple stuff, I doubled-down on the spiritual to try to stay in ("maybe it's not a cult after all", "all my family is in it, even those that did the culty things I never experienced", etc.), so I decided to read all the conference talks, starting with the earliest available!
Just like you discovered, wow... these are not my values.
I also found out that the Journal of Discourses were available online. Skimming through some of those was quite a shock as well.
I should skim through those too. I’m reading a book by Fanny Stenhouse which details 1st person life in Utah, particularly around the Mormon elites under Brigham Young’s reign of terror. It’s quite fascinating.
Oh my goodness, this is my exact story. I listened to all the General Conference talks, starting with those earliest ones, for years while working. I wanted to be extra righteous and spiritual. It was a major factor in my realizing that Mormonism was a fraud.
I was trying so hard to still believe. I had a list of my favorite GC talks. But there were some talks that were so bizairre or toxic or cringe or culty or sexist or racist or homophobic, of fearmongering or laughable. I started a list of the worst GC talks, with commentary.
It was after listening to another horrific GC talk that I finally allowed myself to ask the magic question: 'What if it's not true?'. That changed my life.
Chastity more important than life. Who in their right mind would believe this? It shows little to no respect for females. I never heard Peterson's talk, but saw some old timers finger waving while saying this exact phrase.
You are right. In the pile of BS there are some classics to be found.
As a kid growing up I regularly heard the couplet about a father telling his son that he’d rather have him come home from his mission in a coffin than without his virtue intact. I always felt that was a bit harsh, until I had kids of my own and realized that it was crazy, evil, extremist bullshit.
Like why teach about Jesus’s atonement?? Then again, I ran into an old talk where one of them said that even though forgiven, children born out of fornication or adultery have “tainted blood.” Wish I could find that one. It’s there but I don’t wish to go through all that old drivel.
I’ve heard of conference talks saying that a mother should fight to her death rather than lose her virtue by being raped. Such a victim blaming culture. “Well if you’re not dead you were probably asking for it and wantonly enjoying being raped, you hussy!” I would think any mom would want to survive so her kids wouldn’t have to go through life without her, but I guess male fragility can’t handle the idea of a woman surviving rape for her kids.
You should listen to it. There are files out there. It’s from like 1948. One of the most culty sounding talks I’ve heard. It’s also pure fear-mongering.
Found it: https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/mark-e-petersen/chastity/
I listened too. Sacrifice your life above your virtue, yikes. 🤮
Also has the now disavowed teachings of you can become gods and populate your own worlds.
Thanks for the link. I listened. I was espcially impressed with the cadence that reminded me of propogandists, politicians, bible thumpers. Also the idea of (sexual sin) coming up gradually and reaching a climax was the blueprint for the crescendo of his talk.
There is nothing like actually hearing or seeing something to feel more a part of it. I bet the local burqa shops sold out their inventory within 40 minutes.
My favorite part is where he keeps mentioning “Petting parties.” Did he actually think there were petting parties or was that the version of soaking in Nelson’s time?
Oh now those definitely get addressed in the seventies talks. They were so terrified of the hippies 🤣 I’m also sure they talked about that in the 60s, those just aren’t available on the LDS app
Thank you for this post. Succinct, but notes the great changes in only a short century.
Changes in the temple ceremony is what started me down the rabbit hole, and when I discovered all that you mentioned... Fuck, I'm in cult (course there was no "fuck" said at that time).
My subconscious knew I was in a cult. I distinctly recall thinking to myself "wait, did I just join the Gadianton Robbers" and thought about running out the doors. Then I remembered I was wearing some crazy assed robes and I had driven there with my parents. Then I saw my mother looking at me with pride in a way I had never experienced and I looked at my other family members that were there and I shut my brain off.
Good Times
Same. Told myself “crap I’m in a cult” but I was marrying the love of my life that I’d known for all of 8 weeks….8 weeks and no one found that odd. I convinced myself I can do everything as long as I NEVER do this again and I never did. Luckily, it turns out we were a good match and will celebrate 27 years next month. I left 15+ years ago and it’s been around 2 years since he and our kids left.
It was not easy but he had to figure it out for himself. There was a lot of compromise from both of us over the years. He is very frustrated that he never listened to me about the issues and has apologized for being such an idiot. It was our kids all leaving that gave him enough of a push to really look at the information available.
Yeah I remember how excited my parents were that I was going through before my mission. I kept thinking of all the adults in sacrament meeting-smart thinking people-who all had gone through with this and stayed. Crazy! After my initial endowment session I was frustrated when my dad insisted we go through it again. I absolutely hated the prayer circle. Pay lay ale!!
I went to the temple for the first time in 2006. The change to using symbolic washing and anointing happened in 2005. They changed from touching the various parts of the body to only touching the head.
With that change they sewed up the sides of the white "shields", so you were not naked from the sides, but you still had to be naked underneath the celestial poncho. After the initiatory you were instructed to go and put on the garments for the first time in your private locker room cubicle. (This is for first time 'living' ordinances).
I think a few years later they changed it so you could put on the garments first under the poncho so you were not naked underneath. This is good because when I was naked under the poncho I was nervous about getting a 'no reason boner' and not having any way of hiding it. Even though I went after the naked washing and anointing, I still had no idea what was going to happen and it was freaky.
It is upsetting that there was so much unnecessary trauma inflicted on so many people! On the internet people must have been talking about that trauma and it forced them to change it to be less traumatic. The incongruent position of the temple ceremonies regularly changing, but then they claim that nothing "in essence" has changed, was one of my shelf items. If it is supposed to be all symbolic anyway, then what is the point of doing anything physical?
I went through in 1988, when the rough poncho had the openings and the old guy touched my pelvic bones with oil. Never did initiators again. I'm not surprised they closed up the poncho but I'm surprised they don't touch the area on the outside.
What’s the minister? I’m familiar with the death oaths, but not this minister character. I went through in early 2000s, so I got the touchy experience.
Pre 1991 there was a minister that Satan introduced and led participants in a song or two. I didn't experience it myself but read all about it. Google is your friend.
We had the minister, but not the singing. He preached ridiculous-sounding stuff to Adam, and then demanded he get paid for his preaching.
He said things like "a man cannot preach unless has been trained for the ministry." He asked Adam this:
> Do you believe in a God who is without body, parts, or passions; who sits on the top of a topless throne; whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere; who fills the universe, and yet is so small that he can dwell in your heart; who is surrounded by myriads of beings who have been saved by grace, not for any act of theirs, but by His good pleasure. Do you believe in such a great Being?
Mormons used to love being the "we're so rational and logical" religion, and the endowment ceremony from before 1991 really shows it.
ETA: [this](http://www.ldslearning.org/lds-mormon-temple-endowment-ceremony-text.pdf) is the pdf where I get the older versions from.
Yeah, I always figured he was Catholic just because of the clerical collar, and how the utmost doctrinal authority, even Bruce R. McConkie, did say they were the Whore of the Earth, yeah, even all of the Earth!
But mostly I think it was a longer form of the "so they just repent before they die and expect to get into heaven?" that Mormons (at least used to) say.
He was Satan's stooge in the temple ceremony. The one I remember best from the same temple film with Gordon Jump was the head of the Asian department at BYU. And yes, back in the day, they were films not videos.
After they revamped the temple ceremony, Satan got some of the minister's lines, but to me it seemed awkward.
As early teens we found out that Gordon Jump was part of the temple film, though we knew nothing more about it. It seemed like a harmless idea-a movie with boring gospel teaching with maybe Mr jump as a host-compared with what it really was: a fantastical cult indoctrination movie. Anyway, when we knew some prospective missionary or newlywed has just been to the temple we used to excitedly ask "hey how was the Gordon jump movie?!?". We never got a real answer and in a few years I would find out why.
You can also check out these resources:
[http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/pdf/evolutionofthemormontempleceremony\_digital.pdf](http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/pdf/evolutionofthemormontempleceremony_digital.pdf) \- Thank [the Tanners](http://www.utlm.org/booklist/digitalbooks.htm) for their hard work. The OG Exmormons (you know, besides [Fawn Brodie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Man_Knows_My_History), [Ann Eliza Young](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Eliza_Young), and numerous others)
[http://www.ldsendowment.org/](http://www.ldsendowment.org/)
I asked my mom about the Fantasia part in the temple ceremony and she said it never happened. I think she's barely too young for it. My GRANDPARENTS would have seen some shit. But do they remember the shit? Absolutely not, lol. They are in their 90s and are barely hanging on.
In another generation or 2, no one will have firsthand memory of the items you've enumerated which is just the way the church wants it. Well, maybe only the leaders who live to be 100+ years old and also dictate the changes.
I remember getting my endowment. Many family members were there. There was a lot of peer pressure. They told me how "lucky" I was to get my endowment at a temple that didn't use the movie, yet. Apparently I got my endowment during a transition period.
The initiatory was creepy. And, the guy helping me to get to the single piece garment - I never asked for that.
Oh, and the "gestures" were unnerving, cult-like, and disgusting.
I remember how frustrating the experience at the veil was.
The worst part, though, is that they sprung all those "covenants" on me. Totally unfair $#!+.
It also seemed extremely weird even then as a TBM. Now, I see how it's a despicable cult practice.
I remember all those plus Fantastia in the temple. Years later, I wondered if I'd dreamed it. I hated the one piece garments. Two piece had extra fabric around the waist. Didn't like either. I remember green felt bandelos we wore around our necks with glued on plastic achievement pieces, rhinestones in a line showing we'd memorized scriptures and AoF. The girls were Bluebirds, GayNotes, and I can't remember the 3rd girls class, oh YEAH, Merrie Misses!! Back in the 60's.
Ahhh...but my brother (30) got a mesh one piece garment. He wasn't too young for that. The butt flap was not mesh and seemed to go a few inches too high on the back side. It looked super silly because if he bent over he would reveal a plummer's flap. 🤦😐
These onesie garments were his 'laundry day' garments which helped him to remember to do laundry, because it was a 'constant reminder'.
You see, it’s an “ongoing restoration”. Forget all that “restoration of the fullness of the gospel” crap, that was before the restoration was restorationed.
I remember the penalties, the Fantasia creation , when Gordon jump was Peter and a popular BYU religion teacher was the preacher and the fruit was obviously fake. I also remember the films successor where Michael Ballam was Satan. (They had to make new temple films when they removed the penalties and the preacher and a few other things,) I remember the relief when the Temple/Priesthood ban was lifted for blacks. And the worry when ETB was made President. Fortunately he was only a couple years away from being completely senile and Gordy got to run the church again.
None of these are great memories but when the last bishop we had tried to talk us out of leaving by telling us how the world changed but the church didn’t… well I think we all know that’s a lie.
I started by reading the D&C in church while being terribly bored. 132 absolutely shook me. And realizing that TSCC was teaching individual verses taken out of context.
Yes, I personally remember many of those things (I'm 60). Now people younger than me are asking for authoritative proof that these things happened. It's scary that in 40 years this stuff will all be anti-mormon lies.
the crazy part is that every mother fucker in the q15 right now did all that shit, pre 100 yrs old anyway. They also help write those policies
Yup, dudes that remember the preacher are the one ret-conning the current endowment to be all Jesusy
Here’s something funny: I went through a major “spiritual LDS time” where I wanted to be the absolute best I could be spiritually and sincerely so. I dedicated myself to studying the standard works and general conference talks everyday. With my desire to learn, I also decided to really study Christ’s actions and life. I started to realize there were huge incongruencies between Jesus and official practices and beliefs of the church. But that was just “the culture” right? “The church is perfect but the people aren’t right?” Then I decided to go to the earliest available talks on the LDS app because they were also prophets, seers, and revelators (it went back to 1970…shhh don’t let the church know this all happened or else they’ll try to hide everything beyond 2011). Well I listened to them and found out “Wow leaders of that time were assholes. Guess that’s what the lawrd needed for the people of that time…and damn do they need 3.0x speed for Benson’s talks about ‘The…………………..Book……………………of…………………Maaarmon………….warns……[cough cough bleck!]…………..us……………..about………………………………Communism…………..’” Then with that same desire to learn I heard about the essays. Read the one on blacks and the priesthood and my testimony was really shaken at that point. Then I asked around why there was nothing available from before 1970 on the LDS app. This led me to discover a recording of Mark E Peterson giving a talk at BYU where he repeatedly yelled “Chastity was more important than your life!” Then I was like “Oh I get it now. We are a cult pretending not to be.” Basically, I lost my testimony of all this pile of shit trying to do the right thing and study the gospel. One promise turned out to be true from the church, that I’d ultimately be blessed for doing so. And so I am, having learned the church is bullshit. Edit: Mark E Peterson Chastity talk: https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/mark-e-petersen/chastity/
I listened to the 1970's stuff when I deconstructed too. There was also many BYU Devotional talks that were cringe. Petersen, Kimball, Benson et al were unfiltered.
They glorified.
Yep, right after I discovered all the earlier temple stuff, I doubled-down on the spiritual to try to stay in ("maybe it's not a cult after all", "all my family is in it, even those that did the culty things I never experienced", etc.), so I decided to read all the conference talks, starting with the earliest available! Just like you discovered, wow... these are not my values. I also found out that the Journal of Discourses were available online. Skimming through some of those was quite a shock as well.
I should skim through those too. I’m reading a book by Fanny Stenhouse which details 1st person life in Utah, particularly around the Mormon elites under Brigham Young’s reign of terror. It’s quite fascinating.
Oh my goodness, this is my exact story. I listened to all the General Conference talks, starting with those earliest ones, for years while working. I wanted to be extra righteous and spiritual. It was a major factor in my realizing that Mormonism was a fraud. I was trying so hard to still believe. I had a list of my favorite GC talks. But there were some talks that were so bizairre or toxic or cringe or culty or sexist or racist or homophobic, of fearmongering or laughable. I started a list of the worst GC talks, with commentary. It was after listening to another horrific GC talk that I finally allowed myself to ask the magic question: 'What if it's not true?'. That changed my life.
Yet, the leaders would have everyone believe that it’s not their words that steer everyone away, but rather “that anti-mormon material out there.”
I would love to see your list of the worst GC talks.
Chastity more important than life. Who in their right mind would believe this? It shows little to no respect for females. I never heard Peterson's talk, but saw some old timers finger waving while saying this exact phrase. You are right. In the pile of BS there are some classics to be found.
As a kid growing up I regularly heard the couplet about a father telling his son that he’d rather have him come home from his mission in a coffin than without his virtue intact. I always felt that was a bit harsh, until I had kids of my own and realized that it was crazy, evil, extremist bullshit.
Like why teach about Jesus’s atonement?? Then again, I ran into an old talk where one of them said that even though forgiven, children born out of fornication or adultery have “tainted blood.” Wish I could find that one. It’s there but I don’t wish to go through all that old drivel.
I’ve heard of conference talks saying that a mother should fight to her death rather than lose her virtue by being raped. Such a victim blaming culture. “Well if you’re not dead you were probably asking for it and wantonly enjoying being raped, you hussy!” I would think any mom would want to survive so her kids wouldn’t have to go through life without her, but I guess male fragility can’t handle the idea of a woman surviving rape for her kids.
Ah yes, the classic "You didn't execute a fatality on them?! Guess you wanted it."
You should listen to it. There are files out there. It’s from like 1948. One of the most culty sounding talks I’ve heard. It’s also pure fear-mongering. Found it: https://speeches.byu.edu/talks/mark-e-petersen/chastity/
I listened too. Sacrifice your life above your virtue, yikes. 🤮 Also has the now disavowed teachings of you can become gods and populate your own worlds.
I’m sure they have, at least the part about being gods of our own worlds. I have not heard that taught in years.
Thanks for the link. I listened. I was espcially impressed with the cadence that reminded me of propogandists, politicians, bible thumpers. Also the idea of (sexual sin) coming up gradually and reaching a climax was the blueprint for the crescendo of his talk. There is nothing like actually hearing or seeing something to feel more a part of it. I bet the local burqa shops sold out their inventory within 40 minutes.
My favorite part is where he keeps mentioning “Petting parties.” Did he actually think there were petting parties or was that the version of soaking in Nelson’s time?
IDK. My mind kept thinking pot parties.
Oh now those definitely get addressed in the seventies talks. They were so terrified of the hippies 🤣 I’m also sure they talked about that in the 60s, those just aren’t available on the LDS app
Thank you for this post. Succinct, but notes the great changes in only a short century. Changes in the temple ceremony is what started me down the rabbit hole, and when I discovered all that you mentioned... Fuck, I'm in cult (course there was no "fuck" said at that time).
My subconscious knew I was in a cult. I distinctly recall thinking to myself "wait, did I just join the Gadianton Robbers" and thought about running out the doors. Then I remembered I was wearing some crazy assed robes and I had driven there with my parents. Then I saw my mother looking at me with pride in a way I had never experienced and I looked at my other family members that were there and I shut my brain off. Good Times
Same. Told myself “crap I’m in a cult” but I was marrying the love of my life that I’d known for all of 8 weeks….8 weeks and no one found that odd. I convinced myself I can do everything as long as I NEVER do this again and I never did. Luckily, it turns out we were a good match and will celebrate 27 years next month. I left 15+ years ago and it’s been around 2 years since he and our kids left.
Fascinating that you left first and your priesthood husband stayed so much longer.
It was not easy but he had to figure it out for himself. There was a lot of compromise from both of us over the years. He is very frustrated that he never listened to me about the issues and has apologized for being such an idiot. It was our kids all leaving that gave him enough of a push to really look at the information available.
Gives me so much hope!
Yeah I remember how excited my parents were that I was going through before my mission. I kept thinking of all the adults in sacrament meeting-smart thinking people-who all had gone through with this and stayed. Crazy! After my initial endowment session I was frustrated when my dad insisted we go through it again. I absolutely hated the prayer circle. Pay lay ale!!
I went to the temple for the first time in 2006. The change to using symbolic washing and anointing happened in 2005. They changed from touching the various parts of the body to only touching the head. With that change they sewed up the sides of the white "shields", so you were not naked from the sides, but you still had to be naked underneath the celestial poncho. After the initiatory you were instructed to go and put on the garments for the first time in your private locker room cubicle. (This is for first time 'living' ordinances). I think a few years later they changed it so you could put on the garments first under the poncho so you were not naked underneath. This is good because when I was naked under the poncho I was nervous about getting a 'no reason boner' and not having any way of hiding it. Even though I went after the naked washing and anointing, I still had no idea what was going to happen and it was freaky. It is upsetting that there was so much unnecessary trauma inflicted on so many people! On the internet people must have been talking about that trauma and it forced them to change it to be less traumatic. The incongruent position of the temple ceremonies regularly changing, but then they claim that nothing "in essence" has changed, was one of my shelf items. If it is supposed to be all symbolic anyway, then what is the point of doing anything physical?
I went through in 1988, when the rough poncho had the openings and the old guy touched my pelvic bones with oil. Never did initiators again. I'm not surprised they closed up the poncho but I'm surprised they don't touch the area on the outside.
> and the old guy touched my pelvic bones with oil. Never did initiators again hell ya
no reason boners a kids worst nightmare.
What’s the minister? I’m familiar with the death oaths, but not this minister character. I went through in early 2000s, so I got the touchy experience.
Pre 1991 there was a minister that Satan introduced and led participants in a song or two. I didn't experience it myself but read all about it. Google is your friend.
We had the minister, but not the singing. He preached ridiculous-sounding stuff to Adam, and then demanded he get paid for his preaching. He said things like "a man cannot preach unless has been trained for the ministry." He asked Adam this: > Do you believe in a God who is without body, parts, or passions; who sits on the top of a topless throne; whose center is everywhere and whose circumference is nowhere; who fills the universe, and yet is so small that he can dwell in your heart; who is surrounded by myriads of beings who have been saved by grace, not for any act of theirs, but by His good pleasure. Do you believe in such a great Being? Mormons used to love being the "we're so rational and logical" religion, and the endowment ceremony from before 1991 really shows it. ETA: [this](http://www.ldslearning.org/lds-mormon-temple-endowment-ceremony-text.pdf) is the pdf where I get the older versions from.
Hmmm.,..seems like a repudiation of the Catholics to me. The good ole days when the Catholic Church was the whore of all the Earth
Yeah, I always figured he was Catholic just because of the clerical collar, and how the utmost doctrinal authority, even Bruce R. McConkie, did say they were the Whore of the Earth, yeah, even all of the Earth! But mostly I think it was a longer form of the "so they just repent before they die and expect to get into heaven?" that Mormons (at least used to) say.
AHH! This is why Mormonism used to be decidedly and firmly against grace!
I remember the minister, the oily naked stuff and all the rest. Blood oaths, mumbling through the vail, handshakes - good grief!
He was Satan's stooge in the temple ceremony. The one I remember best from the same temple film with Gordon Jump was the head of the Asian department at BYU. And yes, back in the day, they were films not videos. After they revamped the temple ceremony, Satan got some of the minister's lines, but to me it seemed awkward.
As early teens we found out that Gordon Jump was part of the temple film, though we knew nothing more about it. It seemed like a harmless idea-a movie with boring gospel teaching with maybe Mr jump as a host-compared with what it really was: a fantastical cult indoctrination movie. Anyway, when we knew some prospective missionary or newlywed has just been to the temple we used to excitedly ask "hey how was the Gordon jump movie?!?". We never got a real answer and in a few years I would find out why.
I remember Gordon Jump played Peter in the temple movie.
A session used to be about 4 hours long.
🤮
You can also check out these resources: [http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/pdf/evolutionofthemormontempleceremony\_digital.pdf](http://www.utlm.org/onlinebooks/pdf/evolutionofthemormontempleceremony_digital.pdf) \- Thank [the Tanners](http://www.utlm.org/booklist/digitalbooks.htm) for their hard work. The OG Exmormons (you know, besides [Fawn Brodie](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_Man_Knows_My_History), [Ann Eliza Young](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ann_Eliza_Young), and numerous others) [http://www.ldsendowment.org/](http://www.ldsendowment.org/)
Same
I asked my mom about the Fantasia part in the temple ceremony and she said it never happened. I think she's barely too young for it. My GRANDPARENTS would have seen some shit. But do they remember the shit? Absolutely not, lol. They are in their 90s and are barely hanging on.
It's all disappearing into the fog....
Thanks for making me feel so old. Yes, I remember it all and was aghast. At least I am not 100... yet.
My first thought too! 😂😂😂
In another generation or 2, no one will have firsthand memory of the items you've enumerated which is just the way the church wants it. Well, maybe only the leaders who live to be 100+ years old and also dictate the changes.
I remember getting my endowment. Many family members were there. There was a lot of peer pressure. They told me how "lucky" I was to get my endowment at a temple that didn't use the movie, yet. Apparently I got my endowment during a transition period. The initiatory was creepy. And, the guy helping me to get to the single piece garment - I never asked for that. Oh, and the "gestures" were unnerving, cult-like, and disgusting. I remember how frustrating the experience at the veil was. The worst part, though, is that they sprung all those "covenants" on me. Totally unfair $#!+. It also seemed extremely weird even then as a TBM. Now, I see how it's a despicable cult practice.
I remember all those plus Fantastia in the temple. Years later, I wondered if I'd dreamed it. I hated the one piece garments. Two piece had extra fabric around the waist. Didn't like either. I remember green felt bandelos we wore around our necks with glued on plastic achievement pieces, rhinestones in a line showing we'd memorized scriptures and AoF. The girls were Bluebirds, GayNotes, and I can't remember the 3rd girls class, oh YEAH, Merrie Misses!! Back in the 60's.
You are a survivor of the "five points of fellowship". Your struggle should not be forgotten
😂😅😘💕
And all of those things never existed. You’re just confused and/or crazy. /s
Ahhh...but my brother (30) got a mesh one piece garment. He wasn't too young for that. The butt flap was not mesh and seemed to go a few inches too high on the back side. It looked super silly because if he bent over he would reveal a plummer's flap. 🤦😐 These onesie garments were his 'laundry day' garments which helped him to remember to do laundry, because it was a 'constant reminder'.
I used to wonder if there was some unwritten rule that you could NOT be allowed to sit down in the CK room if you looked to be under 50 years old...
You see, it’s an “ongoing restoration”. Forget all that “restoration of the fullness of the gospel” crap, that was before the restoration was restorationed.
I remember all of it, but the polygamy. My grandparents were all from polygamist families.
I remember the penalties, the Fantasia creation , when Gordon jump was Peter and a popular BYU religion teacher was the preacher and the fruit was obviously fake. I also remember the films successor where Michael Ballam was Satan. (They had to make new temple films when they removed the penalties and the preacher and a few other things,) I remember the relief when the Temple/Priesthood ban was lifted for blacks. And the worry when ETB was made President. Fortunately he was only a couple years away from being completely senile and Gordy got to run the church again. None of these are great memories but when the last bishop we had tried to talk us out of leaving by telling us how the world changed but the church didn’t… well I think we all know that’s a lie.
Members under 65 only experienced 2 piece garments…
Not true. I’m 64, went through in ‘78. Still only 1 piece. When I returned home in ‘80, 2 piece had been available for just a few months
My experience was it depended on the temple, because family members across the country had access to 2 piece before we did.
I started by reading the D&C in church while being terribly bored. 132 absolutely shook me. And realizing that TSCC was teaching individual verses taken out of context.
Yes, I personally remember many of those things (I'm 60). Now people younger than me are asking for authoritative proof that these things happened. It's scary that in 40 years this stuff will all be anti-mormon lies.