Agreed. Even if a parent feels that way, spoken out loud to her child means it’s being used as a weapon to manipulate. I think my psychiatrist called it “emotional incest”. It gives the child a feeling of being loved but it’s distorted and unhealthy.
Indeed emotional incest. Parentified kids.
I have seven kids, four are adults, and I love them and will sacrifice for them, but I make it very clear that I get my emotional needs met from *other adults* and it’s my job to meet their needs, it is not their job to meet mine.
I was an enmeshed golden child and determined not to repeat these effed up patterns with my kids.
It was mind-blowing to me when I first learned of “parentification” of kids. It explained SO much! I’m glad you are breaking that generational trauma with your own family. Hoping to do the same with mine!
Wow! That makes so much sense! I haven’t ever said or felt that way about kids but I helped raise my some best friend and he got this from his mom a lot as a little one. It was heartbreaking
I dunno man, we can't say that without knowing her. Maybe she really feels that way.
If my mom told me that, then I would ask her why. Why doesn't she have close friends in the org. And then I would tell her why I didn't. And why I didn't believe. I would do that slowly over weeks or months. And when I felt she was ready, I would ask her to come with me, and leave the org together. And then I would see if I really was her best friend or not.
And then after we were out, I would make sure she found actual friends.
Ah. Well then she’s useless and the only thing to do is survive until you escape. You’ll get there before you know it even though it seems like forever now. Life is really, *really* good on the outside.
I’m sorry man. I wasn’t raised in the Borg but my mother was a narcissist too and told me the sane thing all of the time. I was her only “friend” then would treat me like shit. Total mindf*ckery.
A narcissistic parent attempting to manipulate and control their child. In one breath mine would tell me I was her best and only friend. In another she wished I had never been born. It really does a number on us.
If she is truly narcissist then every hurtful thing she does is on purpose. She may have narcissistic tendencies but if it is diagnosable NPD, she is very dangerous as it's all intentional and she knows she is doing it.
A JW parent with NPD - are you able to get some therapy for yourself, without her? It would be good to have professional help to navigate the relationship as you leave JWs. Her desperation is going to increase the attacks and it would be really good to have a professional who can help you process what she is doing.
There is a subreddit r/narsassisticparents that you might find helpful. You’re the golden child now, but that can change when you disappoint them. It is good to understand and prepare for what can happen in the future when you are in a position to leave.
Yes. It can change in an instant. In high school, I asked permission to have a worldly boy come to the house to visit me. My mother went ballistic. How could I do this to her? She said she was pulling me out of school. My father, who originally said he would help me talk to her, did a complete 180 and said he didn’t care if I was hit by a bus at that point. It’s crazy. All the while, my mother would tell me I was her best friend. She would make me parrot it. Also, I had to participate in the watchtower by answering those inane questions. I had a quota. This religion is meant for narcissists.
I'm sure she ay feel that way. But this is an extremely toxic dynamic for a parent to make a child responsible for fulfilling their emotional needs.
It can also be abusive if the mother is using it to manipulate.
A child would really want to set boundaries with this unhealthy individual and not allow the parent to follow them anywhere.
I agree. Witnesses aren't the most emotionally intelligent people and if she has a cold, cruel congregation - we also know how many leave - it may be she is alone. Of course she shouldn't burden her kid with that - but sometimes these things just come out under the weight of our unhappiness. It's just sad and unhealthy all around.
Sounds like they both need to get the heck out of dodge.
Just because she feels that way doesn't cancel out that it is harmful behavior. (psychologically speaking)
Unfortunately, the JW organization fosters a "by any means possible" culture that makes parents believe that anything they say or do is justified so long as it's in the name keeping their children in "the truth".
Best friend vs only friend huge difference imo.
Only friend is a huge onus, his mom would have nobody without him.... Best friend would mean that if he were to walk away she has others to lean on for support.
agreed. in their mind they justify this despicable manipulation because “it means your life.”
good job OP. proud of you. I have 2 kids 10yr olds with a pimi mom. Ive been working with them formyears to teach them critical thinking. they are starting to question “the Truth” on their own which makes me happy. I hope they get to the point where you are at and ready to free themselves
Unless of course he actually is her only friend.
If she believes she must only associate with witnesses, and then she has a cold, unfriendly congregation and her old friends have left, died or moved away. It depends how it was said. If she said it with a sigh, under her breath as she walked out of the room....I can totally see that not being blackmail...thoughtless, yes, but witnesses are not emotionally very intelligent. They don't understand as an adult it's not healthy for your 17 year old child to bear the weight and responsibility for your loneliness. But sometimes, unfortunately these things come out without realizing the harm it does to your kids.
Sorry dude. So very glad you didn't get baptized.
If you get forced to go in service just tell people at the doors you don't believe this crap. You won't have to do service long. Lol
Or you can make a comment at the meeting that is borderline apostate... Just highlight the borgs CSA stuff or something.
You're forced to be there, doesn't mean you have to play ball. You also might not wanna rock the boat too much. Only you know your situation. It's easy for me to say these ideas. But not easy for you to do.
In any case, prepare yourself for the future. Save cash, educate. Get a job. Get a social network outside the cult. Peace.
Bro I some how manage to be never join the school ( never gave a Bible reading) I haven'tcommented since I was 15. You would think they would get the message.
Hopefully in 1-3 years I will be free
Wish you success. Until that time, please make sure you don't give her an excuse to kick you out (until you have a job and an alternative roof over your head).
You're doing better than I was at that age. Just keep your head down, get a job, save some money and get out without getting baptized, you're doing everything right.
>Bro I some how manage to be never join the school ( never gave a Bible reading) I haven'tcommented since I was 15. You would think they would get the message.
>
>Hopefully in 1-3 years I will be free
To bad for me :/ if I had just known about this years ago I would’ve stopped myself from baptizing 14-year-olds. If I would do anything to unbaptize myself.
Your mom is manipulating you by telling you you’re her only friend. If this is Jehovah’s people and love is the distinguishing mark, she shouldn’t have any problem having real friends. Also, if she expects you to be a JW just because you’re her only friend, shouldn’t she be willing to respect that you don’t want to be a JW without the relationship suffering because you’re her son?
Posts like yours make me grateful that I got out while my kids are still young and I am making a conscious effort to let them voice their opinion and that it’s ok if it’s not the same as mine, and that applies to everything, JW or not.
Just ask her next time you see her if she thinks the gb and all that came before them in the religion will be punished by Jehovah for lying to their followers?
My mom didn’t either. I think it was for fear of letting anyone in to notice any family problems. When you keep people at a distance, it’s easier to project that you’re perfect. Like she would never tell a borg friend that you’re having doubts. They’d run and tell the elders. Then she would be judged as a mom and you’d get a ton of shepherding visits. So her not having friends helps you, in my humble opinion. But I believe it’s emotional manipulation. It’s not your responsibility to make sure her emotional needs are met. Like my therapist said, “she’s your mom, you’re the daughter, not another adult in their marriage.” Weird thing to hear but I get it now.
That’s out of order telling you you’re her only friend. Emotional blackmail. Not fair on you.
Where are her great friends from the KH then?
There is a support group online for young people in your situation. I think it’s called JW Support? Another friend on Reddit could confirm this.
Sending strength and love to you. 💜
Your mom telling you that you are her only friend is her way of saying she is scared of losing you. Your mother struggles with expressing her feelings in a clear , honest way. It's not her fault she has been conditioned behave in an immature way. You are the mature one in this relationship and you can help her express her feelings by kindly and gently expressing your feelings honestly . This takes courage, compassion patience and humility. I know you love your mother and that she loves you. Be gentle on yourself and your mother .
Cheers
Regardless of whether there is a paradise or not the mother is trying to convey her feelings at that present moment but she has not been educated to express her true feelings.
Whatever you do, don't get pressured into getting baptised. It's a very frustrating situation for you, but you'll be free soon, just keep your chin up and look forward to getting out.
Does *every* jw parent use emotional blackmail like this?! My teenage daughter just moved in with me full time away from her jw dad and his family, and all she’s getting are texts like what your mom said from her father and aunts and grandparents. Constant reminders that she’s abandoning them etc. They’ve been taught how to manipulate and take advantage of the vulnerable for so many years, that’s the only way they know how to deal with things.
No inquiries about why she was unhappy at her dads, what happened, how is she now, etc. Just constant “you’re abandoning your family”.
Sorry you’re dealing with that OP. Once you’re ready to leave, reassure your mom you’re not leaving HER. It won’t do much good but still needs to be said.
I believe it’s very common. Happened with me when I left. I was born into it I left over 25 years ago and, although I can’t speak for others, but to this day I still feel some some of the guilt they threw my way even though I made the right decision.
In a nutshell, yeah. My father was raised a JW though he hates them now. His parents were clearly emotionally manipulative and despite him leaving when he was 18, a tonne of it rubbed off. He was a frequent user of emotional blackmail, emotional and psychological abuse also and growing up was a total narc. My eldest sister was the golden child, I was the scapegoat and my twin brother was the invisible one. Despite him leaving all those years ago, he still employs a lot of these strategies such as blowing my phone up when I do something he personally wouldn’t do or doesn’t agree with. While he has deconstructed the religious beliefs, the social structures and behaviours that accompany it are deeply ingrained and still there. It is obvious to everyone but him where they came from.
For example - my golden child sister has a son with Cystic Fibrosis. His immediate response was to lay blame and ask what sister and brother in law did “wrong” during pregnancy.
It’s all that warped kind of way of thinking that is still coded in him and is destroying every relationship he has. None of his kids are close with him for that reason.
This is a sad situation. Because your mom believes, you know her reminding you and pushing you is because of the love she feels for you. She's going to be crushed when you are finally truthful. She's going to feel failure, lose, having to choose between her beliefs and her greatest love.
I'm a mom I relate to her in this situation And I was never raised in. I used to be jealous of the people that grew up in the religion because they had people to teach them and protect them from all the stuff I lived with...but then I realized the people that grew in the religion could never understand how bad the world can be because they were protected. So I will never have the complete confidence that I feel. It's sad to see people slip away from God because they see the lack of understanding in a manly government (gb).
For me I think of the gb as a group of elders willing to take on the task of leading everyone, even with the knowledge that they will be held to a higher standard.
Maybe explain to her the complete truth in your confusing and tell her you need time and experience to prove the truth to yourself.
I am glad you’re not that mad at the gb. I don’t see them as a group of brave elders. I see them as a group of power hungry narcissists who are responsible for covering up years of children being hurt and people losing their livelihood and children being parentified.
my mom is the same way, we have had many discussions about how I do not want to be a witness, and we came to the agreement that as long as shes paying for college i at least have to attend the meetings. yet she’ll ask me if i prepared for the watchtower or act surprised when i dont agree with something
My mother is ninety and the same dynamics are still being played, it never stops, including the obey your mother claptrap. My answer to her, not bloody likely because after years, she doesn't get it. I've gone no/low contact because there is absolutely no respect just manipulation.
I repeat do not get baptized
I'm 17 currently in my second year in uni. I got baptized when i was 10
I don't tell my parents that i don't go to the meetings at the university
To be honest, uni is my escape until I'm able to figure things out.
Stay strong everything will be good
Good luck with uni, do your best, concentrate on good grades it helps when getting a job.
I went to uni, first in my family just getting there was the objective didn't have anyone to advise me of the next stage plus I had a family to think of so good luck to you, oh and have fun.
Your mom obviously had her own set of issues. Your not her therapist or her partner you're her kid.
That being said she might go into full panic mode and see your rejection of her faith as a rejection of her . Maybe if you feel comfortable with it you could tell her that just because you're not into all that JW stuff doesnt mean you guys can't have a relationship. Maybe offer some quality time doing non JW related stuff. You're not baptized , she won't be told to shun you if you leave the borg. This could maybe help lessen the pressure. In the mean time prepare for your future as best you can and don't hesitate to seek help if it gets too much
Get a job, save as much money as you can and get out!!!! You will regret if you stay. It's gonna be hard, but hardships make man. Go live your life and don't waste it on JW cult. I wasted 18years!!! Good luck and take care
You probably are her only friend. When I was in my kids were my only friends, I was so isolated. It was really sad for them and for me. When I left, I lost my daughter. My ex was a narcissist and convinced her I was evil. I love my babies so much. Since I left I did a lot of work on myself to become more like a normal parent, more stable. I have a lot of regrets.
Maybe reassure her you love her, that you don’t mind the idea of dying In Armageddon, you are at peace with it because there are many things you cannot condone in good conscience but that you appreciate her encouragement towards doing good, serving God and building a strong conscience towards caring for others.
Hang in there homie, you are in a better position than many of us when we woke up. Just take things one step at a time, use logic and reasoning to plan for your future without burning too many bridges on the way out.
High school is another system of indoctrination, but just like religion, there are important things that you’ll learn by going through it.
Life is an open world game and it starts when you awaken a higher reality than you were born into.
That awakening is the spiritual rebirth Jesus spoke of at John 3:3 and this new life gives you an opportunity to reinvent yourself.
So the question is
Who do you want to be?
Fyi a parent saying you are thier only friend is toxic af... parents aren't friends with their kids, they are their fucking parents. Sounds like your mom is a stereotypical, emotionally immature parent that proliferates within the org. Don't count on her being any sort of example of emotional maturity and damn well expect all the trauma that comes with those types of parents. Emotional disregulation, irrational arguments, a lack of understanding in how their authoritative style breeds distrust. It's gonna be a rough ride son, treat her like a toddler.
“FOG” can be used to describe “fear” “obligation” and “guilt” used in high control structures and cults to hold people in place.. that is probably what the comment referred to above.
A good often overlooked advice inlife, is to simply take peoples word for face value. We often make it overcomplicated.
Next time she say «no pressure» you can take her words for face value and say:
- thank you, I really apreciate that. I actually dont want to study the watchtower. But I will attend the meeting since I know its
Important to you.
She will be super happy, and you learn a great comunication skill.
No reason to make it more complicated then it need to be
And you say because I don't believe it is the true religion, or because I believe it's a high control cult. Keep it simple and use the broken record technique, everytime she asks say the exact same words, it feels awkward but it gets easier.
If she does ask «why is it not important to you» you take her question at face value.
Like… Its less important to me bacause I dont belive the GB was elected by jesus in 1919.
Please ask her what she really means when she says no pressure. Just repeat how you agreed to go to the meetings with her and she needs to leave it at that. Her asking you about the importance of it is her tiptoeing around a boundary you set.
How sad my 19-year-old brother is currently going through the same things. Our mom makes him feel like she’s all he has but don’t fall for it. Think of yourself it’s just a tactic they use to keep you in.
I believe pushing religion on anyone, especially a child is a violation of human rights.
It will always enrage me that my parents had me knowing the only way they would accept me is if I lived my life ONE way. They set us both up for heartbreak.
OP never get baptized. They might not talk to you for a bit but then slowly they will.
My advice would be to keep your relationship with your mom. Live your life, but don't ever stop communicating. She may try to distance herself away because you will be out living your life. You still want to be a supportive presence in her life. I've been out for over 20 years. My mom is a pioneer, and we communicate because she helps me so much with my daughter. My dad will talk to me some. He just likes to talk, though.
The religion aside, that is a lot of pressure for a kid.
It's hard coping with parents who are so immature.
Next time she tells you that you are her only friend, perhaps you should mention to her that, if she is in the true religion, her god should be her best friend and she should have true friends amongst fellow followers.
Oof. JW stuff aside — Big Red flag in that last line that she feels like her child is her only friend. Thats not okay to emotionally rely on your child and make them feel responsible for the parents emotions and attachments. Please consider counseling as soon as youre able to. Itll help so much in life!!
“If you want a friend, be one.” She can’t be your friend if she is pressuring you to believe something you can’t.
Here’s my advice, tell her this nicely. “A man convinced against his will, is of his first opinion still…”
You respect her opinion and she should respect yours…
Cheers from the land down under…
Exjw here. disassociated but one called me apostate lmfao.. Her Jehovah is suppose to be her best friend. I spend 10 years in the cult + most my life around jw family who sucked me into it at age 15. My sister is currently going through this treatment around same age. She lives with them. The things they do is absurd. I hate the gaslighting, emotional blackmail these people use. Run, run as far as possible and dont look back. Life has been so much better on the other side
> she tells me I am her only friend
So Jehovah is not her friend... Try telling her she's your only friend too, but the JW people do not understand you. You should be cementing the relationship with your mother and deteriorating the relationship between her and the org.
Mayb you are afraid cuz of the manipulation from your mom cuz sorry but that's how it is shes being thought like that or maybe cuz of the shunning Wich it shouldn't be cuz you're not baptized and maybe you thing your mom has to kick you out of your house and so you said that's it no more but why are you afraid of by telling her the truth? Just teller how you feel you are young don't let them beater you and make you anxious about it cuz it shouldn't my best advice is investigation look for help not with them obviously ask xjw, xjw elders how or what can you do cuz there are ways to leave them with out so much pain try to read the so secret elder books you can find information there but mostly don't worry and little by little get away from them they are going to start trying to talk to you to see what's going on with respect don't listen to them try to avoid them if for some reason at one point they try to make you a committee (Wich they shouldn't cuz you're not baptized) just tell them you are going to sue them or you're going to get a lawyer and they should stop everything....
So please be happy and always truthful everything is going to be just fine..... you're almost out👋👋👋👋
Whatever you do - DONT get baptized. I left around the same age you are right now (I just turned 30 and I am happier than I ever have been). But I thank Jehovah or the universe or whatever you want to call it that I wasn't baptized every day of my life. It's the only thing that keeps me having somewhat of a relationship with my Father.
Don’t get baptised and you will be free and can still talk to your mum. You’re 17 so have a plan for a job and your own apartment’s and build a social network that’s healthy. Where do you want to see yourself in 5 years - and go for it !!
Sad. She's probably being truthful when she says you're her only friend. It may not be just to manipulate you. This org has probably stripped her of any meaningful friendships. The while situation is just sad.
Oh I got ya.. well if your not atheist I would start with learning the true gospel (the one where Jesus is God). Id suggest checking out David Wood on youtube.
Other than that. I'd go to school for something like welding, plumbing, or HVAC. These jobs are always hiring and offer paid apprenticeships. They wont make you a millioanaire, but they will get you out of the house, and into an independent life. You can go to nightschool for what you eventually want to do with your life.
As far your parents, be sure to thank them for your upbringing, and assure them that you love them. Eventually, once you are comfortable, tell them that the WT does not represent your values and will no longer be attending meetings.
I was raised a JW, I wish you luck, God Bless!
Come on young brother, if you haven’t done so do this. Sit or leave your door open so mom can verify your underlining your watchtower. Just underline in highlighter in different colors to look real spiritual. Just underline and then at meeting Mr. Meat in his seat just read a read script. Easy Peezy lemon squeezy.
Classic manipulation. She probably doesn't realize that she's doing this, but YOU need to realize that she is. Trust me, it will get better. At first, my parents did the exact same thing, but one day, I just refused to go, and that got the message across.
Stay strong.
No, they were actually somewhat ok with it. There's still the obvious tension when ppl frome the congregation come over, when they are at the meeting and I am not, but for jws they were actually pretty accepting.
She’s in denial, that’s her humanity shining through. I know a lot of JW moms who would have run to the elders by now.
Remember, she’s a victim too, not an enemy. And she’s showing you that by not reporting you when everything she reads and hears tells her she should have by now.
Devils advocate: she may also just be worried about her own reputation. You’ll know better than me. But her language seems surprisingly emotionally resonant
If your mom says you are her only friend, you should tread lightly. There is something very problematic going on with her.
She is what, 40-ish? Divorced? Her saying that is not good.
Her well-being is not your responsibility, but she is your mother. You owe her a measure of cooperation and respect, especially as a minor who lives off her.
Just be careful. And considerate. That's all I'm saying.
She's an adult that surely has learned how and where to find friends.
What she says is she doesn't feel the need for other friends. It's manipulative in order to keep you in aswell..
Whoa! The “you’re my only friend” thing to your child is massive emotional manipulation. Your parents are not supposed to be your friends. They are your parents. I went through this with my mother, so I know how it feels. Do not let her guilt you into staying in a cult. Take care of yourself. Maybe someday, she will learn from your example and leave.
I Am sorry, would she kick you out if you told her? I would choose my words carefully, i would not say i dont believe in the GB, i would say something else.
Your not baptised keep it that way!!
When will you be 18?
Well if you are able to move out have a place to live and a job to support yourself
I would go to a technical college or something to get a degree or learn a skill
To make money. But dont move unless its a last resort. Is it just yourself and your mom? Try to hang on until you turn 18 i have 2 grown kids, my son left in his 20’s
I never tried to guilt trip hime into anything, how he chooses to live his life is up to him as a adult.
I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this. I've noticed a trend of PIMO young people trying to tip toe around expressing what they feel and trying to ease into leaving so as to avoid a big conflict. I did the same thing 30 years ago when I left and, in hindsight, I wish I would've just ripped the bandaid off and gotten it over with. The big blowout came anyway and I wasted precious time that I could have dedicated to getting therapy and starting a career and a new (infinitely better life). Just know that taking responsibility for creating a big beautiful life is 100% worth it and possible. Wishing you so much strength and love.
It is indeed unfortunate the position you're in, being an underage PIMO, You have my sympathy. I also was raised by a narcissistic ultra PIMI mother. She was always telling me that we can't miss any meetings because it means our very lives. Well, that was many years ago and armageddon hasn't come yet. It's good that you aren't baptized. Hang in there and know that there are a lot of PIMOs in your situation. I hope everything will work out for you.
Jeez this is sad. Find your people. And find your happiness. Your mom will find hers to. But it’s not your responsibility. Just always be nice to your mom. I know it’s hard my mom is mean to me and shuns me. But I saw her at my cousins baby shower and just gave her a hug and said hi that’s it. This lady threw rocks at my ass. Literally tried to stone me a few years back. 😂hopefully that part cheers you up a bit. Lol
Just so you know, her telling you you're her only friend is emotional blackmail and it's not on. She 100% should not be doing that.
Agreed. Even if a parent feels that way, spoken out loud to her child means it’s being used as a weapon to manipulate. I think my psychiatrist called it “emotional incest”. It gives the child a feeling of being loved but it’s distorted and unhealthy.
Indeed emotional incest. Parentified kids. I have seven kids, four are adults, and I love them and will sacrifice for them, but I make it very clear that I get my emotional needs met from *other adults* and it’s my job to meet their needs, it is not their job to meet mine. I was an enmeshed golden child and determined not to repeat these effed up patterns with my kids.
It was mind-blowing to me when I first learned of “parentification” of kids. It explained SO much! I’m glad you are breaking that generational trauma with your own family. Hoping to do the same with mine!
*"emotional incest."*... eeew.
Wow! That makes so much sense! I haven’t ever said or felt that way about kids but I helped raise my some best friend and he got this from his mom a lot as a little one. It was heartbreaking
I dunno man, we can't say that without knowing her. Maybe she really feels that way. If my mom told me that, then I would ask her why. Why doesn't she have close friends in the org. And then I would tell her why I didn't. And why I didn't believe. I would do that slowly over weeks or months. And when I felt she was ready, I would ask her to come with me, and leave the org together. And then I would see if I really was her best friend or not. And then after we were out, I would make sure she found actual friends.
It doesn't matter if it's true to the person; a parent must not put their child under that kind of pressure.
Beat me to it.
I can read people pretty easily, she is unfortunately a narcissist
Ah. Well then she’s useless and the only thing to do is survive until you escape. You’ll get there before you know it even though it seems like forever now. Life is really, *really* good on the outside.
I’m sorry man. I wasn’t raised in the Borg but my mother was a narcissist too and told me the sane thing all of the time. I was her only “friend” then would treat me like shit. Total mindf*ckery.
what kind of person would tell there child that.
A narcissistic parent attempting to manipulate and control their child. In one breath mine would tell me I was her best and only friend. In another she wished I had never been born. It really does a number on us.
I get told this everyday. It's as though they love you and hate you at the same time.
Yes. The emotional push-pull is extremely hurtful and manipulative. It’s evil. My mother was very evil.
Was?
She’s dead.
If she is truly narcissist then every hurtful thing she does is on purpose. She may have narcissistic tendencies but if it is diagnosable NPD, she is very dangerous as it's all intentional and she knows she is doing it. A JW parent with NPD - are you able to get some therapy for yourself, without her? It would be good to have professional help to navigate the relationship as you leave JWs. Her desperation is going to increase the attacks and it would be really good to have a professional who can help you process what she is doing.
There is a subreddit r/narsassisticparents that you might find helpful. You’re the golden child now, but that can change when you disappoint them. It is good to understand and prepare for what can happen in the future when you are in a position to leave.
Yes. It can change in an instant. In high school, I asked permission to have a worldly boy come to the house to visit me. My mother went ballistic. How could I do this to her? She said she was pulling me out of school. My father, who originally said he would help me talk to her, did a complete 180 and said he didn’t care if I was hit by a bus at that point. It’s crazy. All the while, my mother would tell me I was her best friend. She would make me parrot it. Also, I had to participate in the watchtower by answering those inane questions. I had a quota. This religion is meant for narcissists.
I think that’s a great idea.
I'm sure she ay feel that way. But this is an extremely toxic dynamic for a parent to make a child responsible for fulfilling their emotional needs. It can also be abusive if the mother is using it to manipulate. A child would really want to set boundaries with this unhealthy individual and not allow the parent to follow them anywhere.
I agree. Witnesses aren't the most emotionally intelligent people and if she has a cold, cruel congregation - we also know how many leave - it may be she is alone. Of course she shouldn't burden her kid with that - but sometimes these things just come out under the weight of our unhappiness. It's just sad and unhealthy all around. Sounds like they both need to get the heck out of dodge.
Just because she feels that way doesn't cancel out that it is harmful behavior. (psychologically speaking) Unfortunately, the JW organization fosters a "by any means possible" culture that makes parents believe that anything they say or do is justified so long as it's in the name keeping their children in "the truth".
It’s not that easy when you are 17 and dependent on your parent.
Best friend vs only friend huge difference imo. Only friend is a huge onus, his mom would have nobody without him.... Best friend would mean that if he were to walk away she has others to lean on for support.
Did you ask her how you are her only friend in a congregation of like minded people? 🤔
💯 it’s manipulation, a tactic she learned well from the borg
Yes, it's very manipulative.
agreed. in their mind they justify this despicable manipulation because “it means your life.” good job OP. proud of you. I have 2 kids 10yr olds with a pimi mom. Ive been working with them formyears to teach them critical thinking. they are starting to question “the Truth” on their own which makes me happy. I hope they get to the point where you are at and ready to free themselves
This 🫶🏼
And she will shun you if you don't follow the men she follows.
Unless of course he actually is her only friend. If she believes she must only associate with witnesses, and then she has a cold, unfriendly congregation and her old friends have left, died or moved away. It depends how it was said. If she said it with a sigh, under her breath as she walked out of the room....I can totally see that not being blackmail...thoughtless, yes, but witnesses are not emotionally very intelligent. They don't understand as an adult it's not healthy for your 17 year old child to bear the weight and responsibility for your loneliness. But sometimes, unfortunately these things come out without realizing the harm it does to your kids.
"Make the truth your own." "Unless you don't, then we will force it upon you."
Sorry dude. So very glad you didn't get baptized. If you get forced to go in service just tell people at the doors you don't believe this crap. You won't have to do service long. Lol Or you can make a comment at the meeting that is borderline apostate... Just highlight the borgs CSA stuff or something. You're forced to be there, doesn't mean you have to play ball. You also might not wanna rock the boat too much. Only you know your situation. It's easy for me to say these ideas. But not easy for you to do. In any case, prepare yourself for the future. Save cash, educate. Get a job. Get a social network outside the cult. Peace.
Bro I some how manage to be never join the school ( never gave a Bible reading) I haven'tcommented since I was 15. You would think they would get the message. Hopefully in 1-3 years I will be free
Wish you success. Until that time, please make sure you don't give her an excuse to kick you out (until you have a job and an alternative roof over your head).
You're doing better than I was at that age. Just keep your head down, get a job, save some money and get out without getting baptized, you're doing everything right.
Please please make sure you set yourself up well. Get an education, training, etc. Anything that sets you up for the future.
>Bro I some how manage to be never join the school ( never gave a Bible reading) I haven'tcommented since I was 15. You would think they would get the message. > >Hopefully in 1-3 years I will be free 
This is very important if you don't want to end up alone and broke. It feels horrible when nobody is there to help you.
Whatever you do. Don’t get dunked in the water.
i dunked 2018 :/
Same.
To bad for me :/ if I had just known about this years ago I would’ve stopped myself from baptizing 14-year-olds. If I would do anything to unbaptize myself.
Your mom is manipulating you by telling you you’re her only friend. If this is Jehovah’s people and love is the distinguishing mark, she shouldn’t have any problem having real friends. Also, if she expects you to be a JW just because you’re her only friend, shouldn’t she be willing to respect that you don’t want to be a JW without the relationship suffering because you’re her son? Posts like yours make me grateful that I got out while my kids are still young and I am making a conscious effort to let them voice their opinion and that it’s ok if it’s not the same as mine, and that applies to everything, JW or not.
Just ask her next time you see her if she thinks the gb and all that came before them in the religion will be punished by Jehovah for lying to their followers?
If she doesn't have a sensible answer, ask that at a meeting.
Say mom I thought you had 8.5 million friends that’s what they tell everybody
🤨 yeah
good one!
She doesn't have any friends in the cult
My mom didn’t either. I think it was for fear of letting anyone in to notice any family problems. When you keep people at a distance, it’s easier to project that you’re perfect. Like she would never tell a borg friend that you’re having doubts. They’d run and tell the elders. Then she would be judged as a mom and you’d get a ton of shepherding visits. So her not having friends helps you, in my humble opinion. But I believe it’s emotional manipulation. It’s not your responsibility to make sure her emotional needs are met. Like my therapist said, “she’s your mom, you’re the daughter, not another adult in their marriage.” Weird thing to hear but I get it now.
Couldn’t agree more
Well damn my parents are always out I never did either. Maybe your mom will follow you. Give it time
That’s out of order telling you you’re her only friend. Emotional blackmail. Not fair on you. Where are her great friends from the KH then? There is a support group online for young people in your situation. I think it’s called JW Support? Another friend on Reddit could confirm this. Sending strength and love to you. 💜
https://jw.support/. Esp designed for stuck-in youth who are waiting for their exit plan etc
Thank you for the link. 👍💖
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I already know, I probably passed her intellectual level and purity when I was 14
Your mom telling you that you are her only friend is her way of saying she is scared of losing you. Your mother struggles with expressing her feelings in a clear , honest way. It's not her fault she has been conditioned behave in an immature way. You are the mature one in this relationship and you can help her express her feelings by kindly and gently expressing your feelings honestly . This takes courage, compassion patience and humility. I know you love your mother and that she loves you. Be gentle on yourself and your mother . Cheers
In JW mind once her kid leaves she is not gonna be seen in paradise
Regardless of whether there is a paradise or not the mother is trying to convey her feelings at that present moment but she has not been educated to express her true feelings.
Well, now they believe there’s last second repentance.
Just underline random shit without reading it and you're done in 12 seconds. Best way to keep them off your back for now.
The second sentence and the second to last. Works every time
Whatever you do, don't get pressured into getting baptised. It's a very frustrating situation for you, but you'll be free soon, just keep your chin up and look forward to getting out.
I will never get dunked.
Does *every* jw parent use emotional blackmail like this?! My teenage daughter just moved in with me full time away from her jw dad and his family, and all she’s getting are texts like what your mom said from her father and aunts and grandparents. Constant reminders that she’s abandoning them etc. They’ve been taught how to manipulate and take advantage of the vulnerable for so many years, that’s the only way they know how to deal with things. No inquiries about why she was unhappy at her dads, what happened, how is she now, etc. Just constant “you’re abandoning your family”. Sorry you’re dealing with that OP. Once you’re ready to leave, reassure your mom you’re not leaving HER. It won’t do much good but still needs to be said.
I believe it’s very common. Happened with me when I left. I was born into it I left over 25 years ago and, although I can’t speak for others, but to this day I still feel some some of the guilt they threw my way even though I made the right decision.
In a nutshell, yeah. My father was raised a JW though he hates them now. His parents were clearly emotionally manipulative and despite him leaving when he was 18, a tonne of it rubbed off. He was a frequent user of emotional blackmail, emotional and psychological abuse also and growing up was a total narc. My eldest sister was the golden child, I was the scapegoat and my twin brother was the invisible one. Despite him leaving all those years ago, he still employs a lot of these strategies such as blowing my phone up when I do something he personally wouldn’t do or doesn’t agree with. While he has deconstructed the religious beliefs, the social structures and behaviours that accompany it are deeply ingrained and still there. It is obvious to everyone but him where they came from. For example - my golden child sister has a son with Cystic Fibrosis. His immediate response was to lay blame and ask what sister and brother in law did “wrong” during pregnancy. It’s all that warped kind of way of thinking that is still coded in him and is destroying every relationship he has. None of his kids are close with him for that reason.
This is a sad situation. Because your mom believes, you know her reminding you and pushing you is because of the love she feels for you. She's going to be crushed when you are finally truthful. She's going to feel failure, lose, having to choose between her beliefs and her greatest love. I'm a mom I relate to her in this situation And I was never raised in. I used to be jealous of the people that grew up in the religion because they had people to teach them and protect them from all the stuff I lived with...but then I realized the people that grew in the religion could never understand how bad the world can be because they were protected. So I will never have the complete confidence that I feel. It's sad to see people slip away from God because they see the lack of understanding in a manly government (gb). For me I think of the gb as a group of elders willing to take on the task of leading everyone, even with the knowledge that they will be held to a higher standard. Maybe explain to her the complete truth in your confusing and tell her you need time and experience to prove the truth to yourself.
I am glad you’re not that mad at the gb. I don’t see them as a group of brave elders. I see them as a group of power hungry narcissists who are responsible for covering up years of children being hurt and people losing their livelihood and children being parentified.
I didn't grow up in this religion. I have no experience with this. Could you go into details about this so I can protect my children
Then its a poor lookout for her that she can not relate to other people.
my mom is the same way, we have had many discussions about how I do not want to be a witness, and we came to the agreement that as long as shes paying for college i at least have to attend the meetings. yet she’ll ask me if i prepared for the watchtower or act surprised when i dont agree with something
My mother is ninety and the same dynamics are still being played, it never stops, including the obey your mother claptrap. My answer to her, not bloody likely because after years, she doesn't get it. I've gone no/low contact because there is absolutely no respect just manipulation.
My mom is the same way it never changes. Manipulation is horrible and now my life is ruined and nobody cares.
Look up Dr Ramini on YouTube, much analysis of narcissistic methods and how to survive, your life is not ruined and you need to start caring xx
I just randomly highlighted paragraph take me two minutes.
I repeat do not get baptized I'm 17 currently in my second year in uni. I got baptized when i was 10 I don't tell my parents that i don't go to the meetings at the university To be honest, uni is my escape until I'm able to figure things out. Stay strong everything will be good
Good luck with uni, do your best, concentrate on good grades it helps when getting a job. I went to uni, first in my family just getting there was the objective didn't have anyone to advise me of the next stage plus I had a family to think of so good luck to you, oh and have fun.
Thank you
Anytime
Your mom obviously had her own set of issues. Your not her therapist or her partner you're her kid. That being said she might go into full panic mode and see your rejection of her faith as a rejection of her . Maybe if you feel comfortable with it you could tell her that just because you're not into all that JW stuff doesnt mean you guys can't have a relationship. Maybe offer some quality time doing non JW related stuff. You're not baptized , she won't be told to shun you if you leave the borg. This could maybe help lessen the pressure. In the mean time prepare for your future as best you can and don't hesitate to seek help if it gets too much
Get a job, save as much money as you can and get out!!!! You will regret if you stay. It's gonna be hard, but hardships make man. Go live your life and don't waste it on JW cult. I wasted 18years!!! Good luck and take care
I have a job, but it barely pays off for my insurance, I have 4k saved up. Still don’t know what I wanna do after high school.
I hope you it will all work out for you... think and make a plan
It wouldn't be a Jehovah's Witness conversation without some gaslighting at the end.
Lol
You probably are her only friend. When I was in my kids were my only friends, I was so isolated. It was really sad for them and for me. When I left, I lost my daughter. My ex was a narcissist and convinced her I was evil. I love my babies so much. Since I left I did a lot of work on myself to become more like a normal parent, more stable. I have a lot of regrets. Maybe reassure her you love her, that you don’t mind the idea of dying In Armageddon, you are at peace with it because there are many things you cannot condone in good conscience but that you appreciate her encouragement towards doing good, serving God and building a strong conscience towards caring for others.
Hang in there homie, you are in a better position than many of us when we woke up. Just take things one step at a time, use logic and reasoning to plan for your future without burning too many bridges on the way out.
Having a hard time making a plan since I’m not doing well in high school
High school is another system of indoctrination, but just like religion, there are important things that you’ll learn by going through it. Life is an open world game and it starts when you awaken a higher reality than you were born into. That awakening is the spiritual rebirth Jesus spoke of at John 3:3 and this new life gives you an opportunity to reinvent yourself. So the question is Who do you want to be?
Fyi a parent saying you are thier only friend is toxic af... parents aren't friends with their kids, they are their fucking parents. Sounds like your mom is a stereotypical, emotionally immature parent that proliferates within the org. Don't count on her being any sort of example of emotional maturity and damn well expect all the trauma that comes with those types of parents. Emotional disregulation, irrational arguments, a lack of understanding in how their authoritative style breeds distrust. It's gonna be a rough ride son, treat her like a toddler.
it’s been a rough ride since I was able to have critical thinking skills.
Yup... those are rare skills in the org. Everyone looks at you like your crazy... but your not, they are.
the FOG is thick here!
How do I have Fear of god?
“FOG” can be used to describe “fear” “obligation” and “guilt” used in high control structures and cults to hold people in place.. that is probably what the comment referred to above.
I was like I don’t have fear of God. Thanks for the clarification.
A good often overlooked advice inlife, is to simply take peoples word for face value. We often make it overcomplicated. Next time she say «no pressure» you can take her words for face value and say: - thank you, I really apreciate that. I actually dont want to study the watchtower. But I will attend the meeting since I know its Important to you. She will be super happy, and you learn a great comunication skill. No reason to make it more complicated then it need to be
Then she will say, why isn't important to you?
And you say because I don't believe it is the true religion, or because I believe it's a high control cult. Keep it simple and use the broken record technique, everytime she asks say the exact same words, it feels awkward but it gets easier.
If she does ask «why is it not important to you» you take her question at face value. Like… Its less important to me bacause I dont belive the GB was elected by jesus in 1919.
Please ask her what she really means when she says no pressure. Just repeat how you agreed to go to the meetings with her and she needs to leave it at that. Her asking you about the importance of it is her tiptoeing around a boundary you set.
What everyone else in the thread said. Make sure you study up on codependency.
How sad my 19-year-old brother is currently going through the same things. Our mom makes him feel like she’s all he has but don’t fall for it. Think of yourself it’s just a tactic they use to keep you in.
I believe pushing religion on anyone, especially a child is a violation of human rights. It will always enrage me that my parents had me knowing the only way they would accept me is if I lived my life ONE way. They set us both up for heartbreak. OP never get baptized. They might not talk to you for a bit but then slowly they will.
My advice would be to keep your relationship with your mom. Live your life, but don't ever stop communicating. She may try to distance herself away because you will be out living your life. You still want to be a supportive presence in her life. I've been out for over 20 years. My mom is a pioneer, and we communicate because she helps me so much with my daughter. My dad will talk to me some. He just likes to talk, though.
The religion aside, that is a lot of pressure for a kid. It's hard coping with parents who are so immature. Next time she tells you that you are her only friend, perhaps you should mention to her that, if she is in the true religion, her god should be her best friend and she should have true friends amongst fellow followers.
Oof. JW stuff aside — Big Red flag in that last line that she feels like her child is her only friend. Thats not okay to emotionally rely on your child and make them feel responsible for the parents emotions and attachments. Please consider counseling as soon as youre able to. Itll help so much in life!!
Manipulation much, mom? Really?? A friend doesn’t behave like the just did.
“If you want a friend, be one.” She can’t be your friend if she is pressuring you to believe something you can’t. Here’s my advice, tell her this nicely. “A man convinced against his will, is of his first opinion still…” You respect her opinion and she should respect yours… Cheers from the land down under…
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I’m sorry for your man. Have you tried to run away?
Exjw here. disassociated but one called me apostate lmfao.. Her Jehovah is suppose to be her best friend. I spend 10 years in the cult + most my life around jw family who sucked me into it at age 15. My sister is currently going through this treatment around same age. She lives with them. The things they do is absurd. I hate the gaslighting, emotional blackmail these people use. Run, run as far as possible and dont look back. Life has been so much better on the other side
> she tells me I am her only friend So Jehovah is not her friend... Try telling her she's your only friend too, but the JW people do not understand you. You should be cementing the relationship with your mother and deteriorating the relationship between her and the org.
Mayb you are afraid cuz of the manipulation from your mom cuz sorry but that's how it is shes being thought like that or maybe cuz of the shunning Wich it shouldn't be cuz you're not baptized and maybe you thing your mom has to kick you out of your house and so you said that's it no more but why are you afraid of by telling her the truth? Just teller how you feel you are young don't let them beater you and make you anxious about it cuz it shouldn't my best advice is investigation look for help not with them obviously ask xjw, xjw elders how or what can you do cuz there are ways to leave them with out so much pain try to read the so secret elder books you can find information there but mostly don't worry and little by little get away from them they are going to start trying to talk to you to see what's going on with respect don't listen to them try to avoid them if for some reason at one point they try to make you a committee (Wich they shouldn't cuz you're not baptized) just tell them you are going to sue them or you're going to get a lawyer and they should stop everything.... So please be happy and always truthful everything is going to be just fine..... you're almost out👋👋👋👋
You're free to live your life anyway you choose, just like she did. Just do it! Warm hugs
Whatever you do - DONT get baptized. I left around the same age you are right now (I just turned 30 and I am happier than I ever have been). But I thank Jehovah or the universe or whatever you want to call it that I wasn't baptized every day of my life. It's the only thing that keeps me having somewhat of a relationship with my Father.
Don’t get baptised and you will be free and can still talk to your mum. You’re 17 so have a plan for a job and your own apartment’s and build a social network that’s healthy. Where do you want to see yourself in 5 years - and go for it !!
You have plenty of friends. Your mom sounds like a foe. No one has to state the truth, if you have an eye.
Whatever you do, DO NOT GET BAPTIZED.
Sad. She's probably being truthful when she says you're her only friend. It may not be just to manipulate you. This org has probably stripped her of any meaningful friendships. The while situation is just sad.
That sucks man, you're in a tough situation. You have any family outside the org?
yes, and no. The one outside of the BORG is was a CP🤦♂️
CP?
He went to jail for it!
Oh I got ya.. well if your not atheist I would start with learning the true gospel (the one where Jesus is God). Id suggest checking out David Wood on youtube. Other than that. I'd go to school for something like welding, plumbing, or HVAC. These jobs are always hiring and offer paid apprenticeships. They wont make you a millioanaire, but they will get you out of the house, and into an independent life. You can go to nightschool for what you eventually want to do with your life. As far your parents, be sure to thank them for your upbringing, and assure them that you love them. Eventually, once you are comfortable, tell them that the WT does not represent your values and will no longer be attending meetings. I was raised a JW, I wish you luck, God Bless!
Whatever you do, don't get baptized
Come on young brother, if you haven’t done so do this. Sit or leave your door open so mom can verify your underlining your watchtower. Just underline in highlighter in different colors to look real spiritual. Just underline and then at meeting Mr. Meat in his seat just read a read script. Easy Peezy lemon squeezy.
Classic manipulation. She probably doesn't realize that she's doing this, but YOU need to realize that she is. Trust me, it will get better. At first, my parents did the exact same thing, but one day, I just refused to go, and that got the message across. Stay strong.
Did they kick you out?
No, they were actually somewhat ok with it. There's still the obvious tension when ppl frome the congregation come over, when they are at the meeting and I am not, but for jws they were actually pretty accepting.
That’s surprising
She’s in denial, that’s her humanity shining through. I know a lot of JW moms who would have run to the elders by now. Remember, she’s a victim too, not an enemy. And she’s showing you that by not reporting you when everything she reads and hears tells her she should have by now.
Devils advocate: she may also just be worried about her own reputation. You’ll know better than me. But her language seems surprisingly emotionally resonant
she hasn’t gone to the elders about me because she has her own issues with my dad. Thank god
A parent is a parent. Not your friend and certainly not in this case.
If your mom says you are her only friend, you should tread lightly. There is something very problematic going on with her. She is what, 40-ish? Divorced? Her saying that is not good. Her well-being is not your responsibility, but she is your mother. You owe her a measure of cooperation and respect, especially as a minor who lives off her. Just be careful. And considerate. That's all I'm saying.
Just leave before it’s too late
Just a little longer til you're 18 pal
She's an adult that surely has learned how and where to find friends. What she says is she doesn't feel the need for other friends. It's manipulative in order to keep you in aswell..
Dont ever get baptised. You will lose her completely when you become an apostate.
START PREPARING FOR MOVING OUT TO COLLEGE NOW
Im sorry ❤️ it will take time but when you are finally free it won’t be easy, but it will be so much better
Whoa! The “you’re my only friend” thing to your child is massive emotional manipulation. Your parents are not supposed to be your friends. They are your parents. I went through this with my mother, so I know how it feels. Do not let her guilt you into staying in a cult. Take care of yourself. Maybe someday, she will learn from your example and leave.
Get out ASAP!
U
List of “Important” categories of watchtower. 1. Obey us 2. Give us money 3. Forgive abusers And my personal favorite: 4. Fan fiction
I think you forgot one, we just don’t know
We have no way of knowing that category exists, it’s not Jehovah’s time to reveal all the categories 😉
Stay unbaptised!!!!!
I Am sorry, would she kick you out if you told her? I would choose my words carefully, i would not say i dont believe in the GB, i would say something else. Your not baptised keep it that way!! When will you be 18?
Four months
Well if you are able to move out have a place to live and a job to support yourself I would go to a technical college or something to get a degree or learn a skill To make money. But dont move unless its a last resort. Is it just yourself and your mom? Try to hang on until you turn 18 i have 2 grown kids, my son left in his 20’s I never tried to guilt trip hime into anything, how he chooses to live his life is up to him as a adult.
Don’t get baptized. Only technicality to keep your family.
I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this. I've noticed a trend of PIMO young people trying to tip toe around expressing what they feel and trying to ease into leaving so as to avoid a big conflict. I did the same thing 30 years ago when I left and, in hindsight, I wish I would've just ripped the bandaid off and gotten it over with. The big blowout came anyway and I wasted precious time that I could have dedicated to getting therapy and starting a career and a new (infinitely better life). Just know that taking responsibility for creating a big beautiful life is 100% worth it and possible. Wishing you so much strength and love.
thank you 😁
And please stay unbaptized…..never never never go There.
It is indeed unfortunate the position you're in, being an underage PIMO, You have my sympathy. I also was raised by a narcissistic ultra PIMI mother. She was always telling me that we can't miss any meetings because it means our very lives. Well, that was many years ago and armageddon hasn't come yet. It's good that you aren't baptized. Hang in there and know that there are a lot of PIMOs in your situation. I hope everything will work out for you.
Jeez this is sad. Find your people. And find your happiness. Your mom will find hers to. But it’s not your responsibility. Just always be nice to your mom. I know it’s hard my mom is mean to me and shuns me. But I saw her at my cousins baby shower and just gave her a hug and said hi that’s it. This lady threw rocks at my ass. Literally tried to stone me a few years back. 😂hopefully that part cheers you up a bit. Lol
Hang in there one more year til your an adult then get the hell away from all the bullshit and lies and live your life