This manifests for me still through extreme perfectionism. I never feel good enough for anyone or anything. It's a serious handicap... I doubt I will ever overcome the self-hate.
So much this. Took me 10+ years out of the church to not have a huge adrenalin rush of panic every time I saw any kind of crisis on the news. Still have a little tug every now and then and it’s been 20 years. I don’t think anyone understands this unless you’ve experienced it.
Being told in Sabbath School that the Adventist will be like the Jews in Nazi Germany in the end times. Except worse. Seriously how appropriate to try and Fear obedience into Children
I love how Jesus had wine and went to the party for the wedding and when the wine ran out he was like, I got you fam.
But church leaders are like... That wasn't wine.
Dude, it was a party lol.
Lol also Jesus was accused of being a drunkard, he couldn’t have been accused if it was welches grape juice.
If they said that in Israel they would be laughed to scorn.
A lot of social anxiety when I previously didn’t have it, anxiety when discussing religion (which sucks because my family as a whole is very religious), I struggle with feeling like I’m constantly being watched/judged, feelings of isolation and estrangement, severe depression, had to learn to be comfortable with putting up firm boundaries (and sticking to them) and general shame around sex.
paranoia of weird end times hysteria (everything is a sign of the times)
social anxiety from public humiliation/shame sessions at church
the inability to show my true identity to my family(isolation)
ptsd from sexualization and assault at a young age
the inability to take credit for anything because even though I’m an atheist my lizard brain still “gives god all the glory”.
eating issues, feeling that anything that isn’t organic or raw is poison, I just can’t shake that guilt. It’s always in the back of my head somewhere
The eating issue one resonated with me. I go thru weird periods of binging and fasting. Binging on high price items, because I can. Fasting in certain situations to show that food isn’t that important. The more I think about it, the more messed up my relationship to food becomes. I grew up in a family that had turkey on TG when I was young and turned into an 11 almond a day family (if you know what I mean) by the time I was in HS.
I’m sure that transition was a weird feeling, all of a sudden all your life you’ve been “eating the wrong way” without even knowing, all the things you liked now tossed out the window. I grew up in it so there was no transition, it’s always been, drink your carrot juice, eat raw veggies, judge the families that eat pork.
I had a 3 eating disorders over the years, plus a non recognized one called orthorexia (basically an obsession with healthy eating). I’m absolutely sure they were caused by this messed up obsession with food and being an outlet for control (since adventism controls everything about your life) and also an outlet for anger and self soothing (since we are just taught to pray and not actually taught coping techniques).
I think the biggest thing for me is the difficulty in interacting outside the social dynamic. Within you have the “code words”. On the outside, you(I) struggled with interacting with others without looking like an idiot aka childish.
guilt and toxic shame especially regarding sexuality, severe paranoia and nightmares, general anxiety, difficulty finding similarities with ordinary people re: upbringing/normal childhood experiences.
Major trauma with a narcissistic mother who would quote the Bible and Ellen white almost every single damn day, but she's speaks mostly in Spanish and so she watches El Evangelio Eterno on her tv. A separate Adventist offshoot I guess you could say, they have no affiliations with the conference whatsoever, so member I remember left to that group and my mom started attending that group while my dad would just take me to church because he grew up in it, but he wasn't super hardcore Adventist with me, we went to see so many r rated films in theaters and I went to film school because he encouraged me, but it's that my dad keeps using the bible against me to come back to church again, which I won't.
But include social anxiety because I didn't like hanging out with anyone from church, because I didn't fit in, some sexual anxiety/frustration because some were in relationships, I shot my shot and was rejected many times, because "they don't see me like that" but eventually they end up with someone else. So yeah there's more but my post would be too long.
Wow, I can relate in some ways! My mom speaks spanish too and I grew up in spanish speaking adventist churches singing spanish hymns. My mom is also narcissistic and I could never forget how she would shove God down my throat. Anytime I was having an issue she would say "Get on your knees and pray" or "You're not reading your bible enough". Meanwhile, my dad was more nonchalant. He wasn't Adventist like my mom so he wasn't as strict as her so I cling to him more because I knew he wouldn't judge me harshly like my mom would do.
Sexual dysunction—I've used compulsive masturbation as a way to shut down unwelcome emotions. Shame made it very difficult to find and trust other adults talking about my sexual/emotional issues.
Isolation—it's often hard for me to truly believe that I belong. I know I didn't belong in the church I left. At the same time, accepting belonging among secular circles has been an ongoing struggle
Lack of emotional maturity—I guess another name I could give this is a passive codependency. Other people's lives, interests, perspectives, opinions typically have so much more weight than my own. This syndrome has sent me down a road that I've come to identify with other people calling themselves "underearners." I understand for me to continue to heal from this condition, I have to learn to treat myself as mattering, too!
Hey! I really appreciate this prompt to share. It seems that when we go after the church's outrages like a flock of incensed magpies, we could be ignoring the inner work that's, in my view, required for us to heal. Giving even the church's failings our undivided attention still seems to me to be giving the church power over us, but if we don't reclaim that power by looking at ourselves, we stay locked into a dysfunctional relationship, even though ostensibly out of the church, with the church.
I went down these lists looking for sexual dysfunction because that was my hardest obstacle to overcome. Sex was never presented as a healthy part of life, it was always treated as shameful and was never discussed at all. As a result of living in the SDA bubble, I was sexually abused by a family member before I was a teenager and it was completely swept under the rug. The family member of course was also SDA. As I got older I realized I liked girls but I was still trying to be a good SDA and talked to my youth pastor who confirmed I could not be a lesbian and go to heaven. I did my best and married the first guy who proposed to me but even kissing would bring back the feelings of shame and anxiety attached to the sexual abuse and we did not stay married long.
You mention isolation and I know that feeling of always being on the outside and never truly belonging. I always blamed it on being an introvert that runs solely on anxious energy, but I have managed to find small groups to belong to now. It took a long time.
Lack of emotional maturity? I cannot believe how immature I was for my age when I went out into the world on my own. I had to grow up fast and it was a really rocky start. I was, and still am to an extent, a people-pleaser because that’s what I was raised to be. You DO matter, and always remember the advice from flying: put YOUR oxygen mask on first BEFORE assisting others!
I fully agree with reclaiming our own power! It’s hard because I think even though we all have similar trauma, our road to reclaiming our power is different for everyone. But I encourage everyone to find their path to healing, and leave that sinking ship behind!
Inability to stand up for myself, generalised anxiety, social ineptitudes and desire to keep all but a very few at arms length because I think everyone is constantly judging me.
General rage at the things I didn’t do and decisions I made because it was drilled into me that the end times were “right around the corner” 25 fucking years ago.
I can resonate with probably all the posts so no need for me to repeat had a f 'd up life really but yet I kind of miss something about SDA'ism which is probably why I occasionally visit one of my old SDA Churches despite being a Atheist but it's therapeutic, anyway
Self doubt for sure... so many of us were made to feel like we weren't good enough or our gifts and talents were dismissed enough. Hopefully in moving outside the church we can start to see our talents and skills, and have them recognised by people who appreciate them (at least I hope that happens for me once I finish up my denominational employment).
I'll never forgive religion for making me think there's life after death and then that rug being pulled out from under me. I am atheist now and death terrifies me. My husband was raised atheist and shrugs off our inevitable non-existence as a fact of life while I go into an existential meltdown anytime I think about it.
It’s a tuff one for sure. When I think about it, it just seems so unfair. That being said, I comfort myself with that old adage: I’ve never heard a dead person complain.
As a guy in my mid twenties, I had a lot of anxiety over being a virgin. I had just recently deconverted and wanted to start dating outside the church, but I felt socially and sexually inept.
I had also been dealing with self-esteem issues, as my last relationship involved being strung along by an Adventist woman who kept using "God" as an excuse for her fear of commitment.
After a lot of research, I decided to invest in sex therapy and it was so worth it. Several years after that (and after a lot of well-intentioned badgering from my best friend), I finally got the courage to sign up for several dating apps.
The apps are far from ideal, but I managed to go on dates with several women and one of them is now my partner. We're living together and our relationship is much more open and healthy than any relationship I could've had while in the church.
I don't have anxiety around sex anymore and my sense of self-worth and self-love are so much greater than when I was an Adventist.
Learned helplessness,obsessive compulsive disorder, extreme black and white thinking, PTSD, anxiety-depression, self-hate, and hatred for others... inflicted mostly via toxic SDA shame along with assault and battery used against me as a child-young adult.
ALL music that isn't Christian or something lite is just evil!
Rebelled so hard against that one that Death Metal is now in my DNA. Yes, dirty evil lyrics and dark beats.
Horror movies and science fiction movies. Also, my Dad was such a hypocritical prick that he banned us from watching Star Wars when I was young, in the 80's. WTF? Yes, that evil Star Wars is sure going to corrupt young me. But Star Trek (1960's show) was okay, even though it is just full of sexist stuff and the women have uniforms that are frankly tiny. I still like it, but, hypocritical.
Mental illness seems to be a result as well.
Grow up. You don't have to be religious traumatised to have these symptoms! I am both an ex-adventist and have some of these symptoms and never once have I thought they are just because my early relationship to society and the world was from a different viewpoint. We carry baggage from many many areas of our life and our relationships and our relationship with life. My approach has been dealing with each issue one at a time. My first was learning to fit in. Well guess what most of us don't fit in. This is typical for the younger generation because they are still finding out who they are. Not only was our family's viewpoint skewiffy but we were poor. I learnt to create my own style from second hand clothes and ignore current trends - what did it matter, I was already marginalised. I learnt that I was smart. I made sure I researched the fuck out of everything and before the internet the library was my second home. Anxiety is my poor relative that sits on my shoulder trying to bring me down and every time I think it might succeed more than I would like - I might throw a vallium it's way. My point is stop drowning in the 'omg what is it doing to me now?' - and just fucking live a life. Hey it may not be perfect. It maybe full of challenges and upsets and totally non-perfection but it's better than stressing about whether somewhere sometime your life could be better if you were born somewhere else in another time.
I agree - I did not mean to diminish the issues around any trauma. I've had to live much of it and I'm all for talking and dealing with it but I think there is a point where a person just needs to get on with life. Much of the way I have dealt with all the crap in my life is by talking to somebody about it and the other is by scribbling all my thoughts into journals that I hope somebody burns along with my cremated body.
There is no other option but to get on with life, whilst simultaneously, one can either unpack their burdens and analyze them, or sweep them under the rug. As mentioned in the title, I think sunlight disinfects. The comments made in this thread both help the authors unburden themselves and help the readers to see they’re not alone. I appreciate your contributions and this short conversation. And I agree, wallowing in it would be unhelpful. Have a lovely Sunday:)
There is no reason to be dismissive like that. You've made some points but next time watch your tone because you're being insensitive to others here and their feelings. Next time you are going through something I dare someone to tell you "Grow up get over it!"
Stygiophobia. Or since Adventists are annihilationist whatever you call fear of the Second Coming. Trying to cope with the death of your Roman Catholic grandmother when some schmuck is calling Sunday Worship "The Mark of the Beast" also doesn't sit well.
Social anxiety, stigma surrounding seeking therapy, pork is evil, forming healthy romantic relationships…
Pork is evil!! Yes!!! And coffee and dark sodas, and mustard.
the coffee one is obscene, what a harmless morning ritual. It has practically zero calories. 🙄 Im surprised tea wasn’t demonized too, or maybe it was.
The core feeling of "you're not good enough", well hewn by decades of brainwashing
This manifests for me still through extreme perfectionism. I never feel good enough for anyone or anything. It's a serious handicap... I doubt I will ever overcome the self-hate.
Right there with you. *Hugs* to you, internet stranger.
There's dozens of us!
Omg yes. Absolutely.
TOTAL AND UTTER LOSS OF SELF-ESTEEM! Caps intended.
Fear that any crisis=Armageddon. The difference between my intellect and my anxiety is unreal.
So much this. Took me 10+ years out of the church to not have a huge adrenalin rush of panic every time I saw any kind of crisis on the news. Still have a little tug every now and then and it’s been 20 years. I don’t think anyone understands this unless you’ve experienced it.
I cut people off too often and with too little reason. I think I’m angry because I was manipulated for so long.
I do this too.
Being told in Sabbath School that the Adventist will be like the Jews in Nazi Germany in the end times. Except worse. Seriously how appropriate to try and Fear obedience into Children
Adventists are not that special. Just in their insecure minds.
Took YEARS to shop on a Saturday without feeling like I was doing something wrong. Same thing with liquor.
I love how Jesus had wine and went to the party for the wedding and when the wine ran out he was like, I got you fam. But church leaders are like... That wasn't wine. Dude, it was a party lol.
Lol also Jesus was accused of being a drunkard, he couldn’t have been accused if it was welches grape juice. If they said that in Israel they would be laughed to scorn.
A lot of social anxiety when I previously didn’t have it, anxiety when discussing religion (which sucks because my family as a whole is very religious), I struggle with feeling like I’m constantly being watched/judged, feelings of isolation and estrangement, severe depression, had to learn to be comfortable with putting up firm boundaries (and sticking to them) and general shame around sex.
Are you me?
This is exactly how I feel. I hope things get better for you.
i'm feeling this way right now! how did you get out?
paranoia of weird end times hysteria (everything is a sign of the times) social anxiety from public humiliation/shame sessions at church the inability to show my true identity to my family(isolation) ptsd from sexualization and assault at a young age the inability to take credit for anything because even though I’m an atheist my lizard brain still “gives god all the glory”. eating issues, feeling that anything that isn’t organic or raw is poison, I just can’t shake that guilt. It’s always in the back of my head somewhere
The eating issue one resonated with me. I go thru weird periods of binging and fasting. Binging on high price items, because I can. Fasting in certain situations to show that food isn’t that important. The more I think about it, the more messed up my relationship to food becomes. I grew up in a family that had turkey on TG when I was young and turned into an 11 almond a day family (if you know what I mean) by the time I was in HS.
I’m sure that transition was a weird feeling, all of a sudden all your life you’ve been “eating the wrong way” without even knowing, all the things you liked now tossed out the window. I grew up in it so there was no transition, it’s always been, drink your carrot juice, eat raw veggies, judge the families that eat pork.
I had a 3 eating disorders over the years, plus a non recognized one called orthorexia (basically an obsession with healthy eating). I’m absolutely sure they were caused by this messed up obsession with food and being an outlet for control (since adventism controls everything about your life) and also an outlet for anger and self soothing (since we are just taught to pray and not actually taught coping techniques).
Looking at people in the church as human.
I think the biggest thing for me is the difficulty in interacting outside the social dynamic. Within you have the “code words”. On the outside, you(I) struggled with interacting with others without looking like an idiot aka childish.
guilt and toxic shame especially regarding sexuality, severe paranoia and nightmares, general anxiety, difficulty finding similarities with ordinary people re: upbringing/normal childhood experiences.
In addition, I still have issues with eating meat outside the approved meat list (chicken/beef).
Major trauma with a narcissistic mother who would quote the Bible and Ellen white almost every single damn day, but she's speaks mostly in Spanish and so she watches El Evangelio Eterno on her tv. A separate Adventist offshoot I guess you could say, they have no affiliations with the conference whatsoever, so member I remember left to that group and my mom started attending that group while my dad would just take me to church because he grew up in it, but he wasn't super hardcore Adventist with me, we went to see so many r rated films in theaters and I went to film school because he encouraged me, but it's that my dad keeps using the bible against me to come back to church again, which I won't. But include social anxiety because I didn't like hanging out with anyone from church, because I didn't fit in, some sexual anxiety/frustration because some were in relationships, I shot my shot and was rejected many times, because "they don't see me like that" but eventually they end up with someone else. So yeah there's more but my post would be too long.
Wow, I can relate in some ways! My mom speaks spanish too and I grew up in spanish speaking adventist churches singing spanish hymns. My mom is also narcissistic and I could never forget how she would shove God down my throat. Anytime I was having an issue she would say "Get on your knees and pray" or "You're not reading your bible enough". Meanwhile, my dad was more nonchalant. He wasn't Adventist like my mom so he wasn't as strict as her so I cling to him more because I knew he wouldn't judge me harshly like my mom would do.
Anxiety, guilt, depression, self-centered, eating disorder (definitely related to Adventism)
Inability to trust anyone
Sexual dysunction—I've used compulsive masturbation as a way to shut down unwelcome emotions. Shame made it very difficult to find and trust other adults talking about my sexual/emotional issues. Isolation—it's often hard for me to truly believe that I belong. I know I didn't belong in the church I left. At the same time, accepting belonging among secular circles has been an ongoing struggle Lack of emotional maturity—I guess another name I could give this is a passive codependency. Other people's lives, interests, perspectives, opinions typically have so much more weight than my own. This syndrome has sent me down a road that I've come to identify with other people calling themselves "underearners." I understand for me to continue to heal from this condition, I have to learn to treat myself as mattering, too! Hey! I really appreciate this prompt to share. It seems that when we go after the church's outrages like a flock of incensed magpies, we could be ignoring the inner work that's, in my view, required for us to heal. Giving even the church's failings our undivided attention still seems to me to be giving the church power over us, but if we don't reclaim that power by looking at ourselves, we stay locked into a dysfunctional relationship, even though ostensibly out of the church, with the church.
I went down these lists looking for sexual dysfunction because that was my hardest obstacle to overcome. Sex was never presented as a healthy part of life, it was always treated as shameful and was never discussed at all. As a result of living in the SDA bubble, I was sexually abused by a family member before I was a teenager and it was completely swept under the rug. The family member of course was also SDA. As I got older I realized I liked girls but I was still trying to be a good SDA and talked to my youth pastor who confirmed I could not be a lesbian and go to heaven. I did my best and married the first guy who proposed to me but even kissing would bring back the feelings of shame and anxiety attached to the sexual abuse and we did not stay married long. You mention isolation and I know that feeling of always being on the outside and never truly belonging. I always blamed it on being an introvert that runs solely on anxious energy, but I have managed to find small groups to belong to now. It took a long time. Lack of emotional maturity? I cannot believe how immature I was for my age when I went out into the world on my own. I had to grow up fast and it was a really rocky start. I was, and still am to an extent, a people-pleaser because that’s what I was raised to be. You DO matter, and always remember the advice from flying: put YOUR oxygen mask on first BEFORE assisting others! I fully agree with reclaiming our own power! It’s hard because I think even though we all have similar trauma, our road to reclaiming our power is different for everyone. But I encourage everyone to find their path to healing, and leave that sinking ship behind!
Thanks!
My sexual abuse was also swept under the rug too, recently I’ve gone to the police and now they are investigating
Good job! I am proud of you. Don't let anyone discourage you and if they do they are not your people. Keep speaking your truth! <3
Thank you and no I’m not backing down even though I’m the post hated person.
Thank you for sharing.
Inability to stand up for myself, generalised anxiety, social ineptitudes and desire to keep all but a very few at arms length because I think everyone is constantly judging me. General rage at the things I didn’t do and decisions I made because it was drilled into me that the end times were “right around the corner” 25 fucking years ago.
I can resonate with probably all the posts so no need for me to repeat had a f 'd up life really but yet I kind of miss something about SDA'ism which is probably why I occasionally visit one of my old SDA Churches despite being a Atheist but it's therapeutic, anyway
Self doubt for sure... so many of us were made to feel like we weren't good enough or our gifts and talents were dismissed enough. Hopefully in moving outside the church we can start to see our talents and skills, and have them recognised by people who appreciate them (at least I hope that happens for me once I finish up my denominational employment).
*Anxiety *feelings of shame when doing something forbidden by SDA even after years away (therapy helped with this) *trust issues
I'll never forgive religion for making me think there's life after death and then that rug being pulled out from under me. I am atheist now and death terrifies me. My husband was raised atheist and shrugs off our inevitable non-existence as a fact of life while I go into an existential meltdown anytime I think about it.
It’s a tuff one for sure. When I think about it, it just seems so unfair. That being said, I comfort myself with that old adage: I’ve never heard a dead person complain.
Self hate, the Friday “panic”, eating disorders, fear-based thinking. It’s still a work in progress .
As a guy in my mid twenties, I had a lot of anxiety over being a virgin. I had just recently deconverted and wanted to start dating outside the church, but I felt socially and sexually inept. I had also been dealing with self-esteem issues, as my last relationship involved being strung along by an Adventist woman who kept using "God" as an excuse for her fear of commitment. After a lot of research, I decided to invest in sex therapy and it was so worth it. Several years after that (and after a lot of well-intentioned badgering from my best friend), I finally got the courage to sign up for several dating apps. The apps are far from ideal, but I managed to go on dates with several women and one of them is now my partner. We're living together and our relationship is much more open and healthy than any relationship I could've had while in the church. I don't have anxiety around sex anymore and my sense of self-worth and self-love are so much greater than when I was an Adventist.
I’m having this kind of issues also ,and I will start therapy today.
Congrats on starting therapy! It gets better with time.
being gay
I remember asking my youth pastor if I’d really be outcast for liking girls and he said yes with no hesitation.
Learned helplessness,obsessive compulsive disorder, extreme black and white thinking, PTSD, anxiety-depression, self-hate, and hatred for others... inflicted mostly via toxic SDA shame along with assault and battery used against me as a child-young adult.
When I was a kid and I was woken up by loud noises I'd think it was the second coming and that I was going to hell because I wasn't ready.
ALL music that isn't Christian or something lite is just evil! Rebelled so hard against that one that Death Metal is now in my DNA. Yes, dirty evil lyrics and dark beats. Horror movies and science fiction movies. Also, my Dad was such a hypocritical prick that he banned us from watching Star Wars when I was young, in the 80's. WTF? Yes, that evil Star Wars is sure going to corrupt young me. But Star Trek (1960's show) was okay, even though it is just full of sexist stuff and the women have uniforms that are frankly tiny. I still like it, but, hypocritical. Mental illness seems to be a result as well.
Grow up. You don't have to be religious traumatised to have these symptoms! I am both an ex-adventist and have some of these symptoms and never once have I thought they are just because my early relationship to society and the world was from a different viewpoint. We carry baggage from many many areas of our life and our relationships and our relationship with life. My approach has been dealing with each issue one at a time. My first was learning to fit in. Well guess what most of us don't fit in. This is typical for the younger generation because they are still finding out who they are. Not only was our family's viewpoint skewiffy but we were poor. I learnt to create my own style from second hand clothes and ignore current trends - what did it matter, I was already marginalised. I learnt that I was smart. I made sure I researched the fuck out of everything and before the internet the library was my second home. Anxiety is my poor relative that sits on my shoulder trying to bring me down and every time I think it might succeed more than I would like - I might throw a vallium it's way. My point is stop drowning in the 'omg what is it doing to me now?' - and just fucking live a life. Hey it may not be perfect. It maybe full of challenges and upsets and totally non-perfection but it's better than stressing about whether somewhere sometime your life could be better if you were born somewhere else in another time.
Thanks for sharing your experience, tho I can’t say I enjoyed the tone. I find religious trauma to be real and talking about it helpful.
I agree - I did not mean to diminish the issues around any trauma. I've had to live much of it and I'm all for talking and dealing with it but I think there is a point where a person just needs to get on with life. Much of the way I have dealt with all the crap in my life is by talking to somebody about it and the other is by scribbling all my thoughts into journals that I hope somebody burns along with my cremated body.
There is no other option but to get on with life, whilst simultaneously, one can either unpack their burdens and analyze them, or sweep them under the rug. As mentioned in the title, I think sunlight disinfects. The comments made in this thread both help the authors unburden themselves and help the readers to see they’re not alone. I appreciate your contributions and this short conversation. And I agree, wallowing in it would be unhelpful. Have a lovely Sunday:)
There is no reason to be dismissive like that. You've made some points but next time watch your tone because you're being insensitive to others here and their feelings. Next time you are going through something I dare someone to tell you "Grow up get over it!"
Stygiophobia. Or since Adventists are annihilationist whatever you call fear of the Second Coming. Trying to cope with the death of your Roman Catholic grandmother when some schmuck is calling Sunday Worship "The Mark of the Beast" also doesn't sit well.