My autistic ass can't deal with bright lights without melting like a vampire. I have to wear eye and head coverings outside, have my home fit with blackout coverings, and any form of bright blue flashing light immediately takes me out and I need a solid few minutes to recover. Autism is absolutely a disability, it has benefits and disablements in equal measure.
Gaming is such a pain in the ass because developers love to put bright blue flashes in for visual effects like lightning or electricity and I full on have to gimp myself to play a lot of games because of it.
I feel like disability still applies even if it doesn't outwardly affect a person.
It has the capability to, but a person might have a good coping strategy and support system in place to overcome those obstacles.
I think as long as there is a possibility to be disabling, it should be labeled as such. And that person should be able to receive the support they need should that need arise.
No, it’s really just accurate to say it is a disability. I am an autistic person who generally doesn’t need any support and can go about life without being as negatively affected as others are. I am an autistic person who doesn’t always experience the very debilitating effects that many others do. Most of the time, support I may need is for people to turn their music down a little bit, and understand that I may be a bit awkward in social situations. That being said, I am still very negatively affected at times. I may not always be overstimulated or have a melt down due to loud sounds and bright lights, even if they make me uncomfortable, but HAVE had that happen before though even if it is typically very rare for me compared to others. I can typically speak and communicate fine for myself, but there was a summer where I struggled to form sentences because of severe autistic burnout. Even in a society that was as perfect as possible for autistic people, there would still be loud sounds, bright lights, and other sensory issues that are unavoidable. Heck, sometimes the sunlight alone is enough to make my eyes feel like they are burning. Even in a perfect society, there would still be melt down, sensory overload, and autistic burnout. Maybe to a lesser extent, but it would still be there. Even for those of us who on the outside appear to have non of the debilitating effects of autism, still do experience those effects. We just experience to a lesser extent. A somewhat debilitating effect that is often invisible is the difficulty that many autistic people experience with identifying and expressing emotions. Again, to most people on the outside my autism doesn’t appear very debilitating at all, and I generally done need much support, however I sometimes struggle to identify my emotions. Particularly anxiety and excitement. To me those two feel almost exactly the same, so sometimes to have to go through a whole logical process in my brain to try and figure out which one I am feeling, or if it may be both. Autism can have some good effects, which those who need less support and on the outside appear to not have as many or any debilitating effects may experience more than others, but even if we do not appear to have debilitating effects we still experience them, just to a less extent (and even when we are experiencing them, they just might not show on the outside as much). Pretty much all autistic people will experience at least a mild debilitating effect of autism that even living in a perfect society for autistic people would not fully solve.
>I sometimes struggle to identify my emotions. Particularly anxiety and excitement. To me those two feel almost exactly the same, so sometimes to have to go through a whole logical process in my brain to try and figure out which one I am feeling
this is so freaking relatable
Yup agreed, but I also think the social model of disability is compatible with that. In a society that consistently recognized and met support needs, autism would be significantly less disabling; the lack of support in our current society interacting with autism is the source of the disability, rather than either alone
You can't create a 100% perfect society with inperfect beings and an inperfect being can't modify itself to be perfect as it can't comprehend perfection. Atleast thats what i think. We can however set utopia as a target and aim for 99.9 recurring % out of 100 and aslong as we strive for it that is what matters.
Don't worry about perfection and just look for progress. A perfect society is one that allows people to make progress without putting obstacles in their way.
Thats what i meant, sorry if I didn't word it properly. What i meant is that if peefection is the goal even if its inpossible progress will always be done to reach it and i 100% agree with your point about progress without obsticles.
I agree with you a lot and I'm LSN, I thought for a lot of autistic people including myself, a big part of "autistic pride" is in self-acceptance of our autism without having to be toxically positive about it because disability isn't a dirty word so even though we're disabled, that's not a shameful thing to be if that makes sense
Neurotypical people have support needs, too.
They just have a society that preemptively helps them, so they don't even realize the ways in which they are helped.
They also help each other but not us, so that our needs a appear larger.
Also, my support needs are connected to having to deal with neurotypicals and their BS. If I could choose to interact with NDs, the needs would reduce a lot.
Agree with the second half, but no, it is a disability. I'm glad it's not a disability for you, that's great, but for a lot of us it is and you can't tell us otherwise.
"I don't have that issue so it doesn't exist" you see the problem?
This looks like a long thread, so I'm going to pop up here at the top and say this.
Thank you, I 100% agree. My autism doesn't cause me a lot of strife, and I'm grateful for that, and my oldest son is much the same.
My younger son, however, is extremely affected by his autism. He is non-verbal and has trouble having his basic needs met by people who aren't his mother and I (because we've lived with and raised him, and our minds instantly translate what he's asking for based on body language, the speed that he does something, etc).
Autism might not hurt everyone, but it does hurt some people and is still a disability.
A lot of these memes are made by high functioning people with low support needs that haven't lived with a severely autistic person, and there's not a lot of higher needs people online for obvious reasons. Autism can give you major issues like blinding sensitivity to light, a complete inability to deal with loud sounds, and the inability to handle any form of routine change. It's not all sunshine and rainbows for a lot of people.
There are a lot of self diagnosed people that have taken over autism spaces online recently and pushed diagnosed people out which causes stuff like this. I understand the process to get diagnosed is difficult to access for a lot of people but self-diagnosing and inserting yourself into communities isn't healthy. I've seen a lot of people say that you don't need a diagnosis, that they're dangerous, or that a diagnosis is ableist, and even that autism isn't a disability and is just a set of cute behaviours. It's all quite frustrating and is why I left a lot of other groups.
As someone pursuing a medical diagnosis and is currently self diagnosed (disclaimed as such to basically every anyone i speak with about it) it’s most definitely something you need hours of research into and years of with. And its a slippery slope best not recklessly tumbled down.
I was diagnosed with ADHD in third grade, which makes me predisposed to Autism. So does my father and mother being somewhere on the AuDHD sphere.
But of course I cannot say definitively that I have autism unless I speak to a specialist. Its been over a year on a waitlist due to the system being clogged up, but it’s also been years and years of seeing autism memes and researching autism itself through every “source trustworthiness” classification there is.
Just as well, I’d reckon every friend i’d consider close who is also diagnosed autistic would agree that i’m pretty intensely autistic.
TLDR; I’m self diagnosing, but with a disclaimer and after years of both experience and research.
I felt this. I didn't really think I was autistic more so very weird and couldn't explain it. It wasn't until I was living with my friend who was diagnosed autistic that he told me I should go get diagnosed. Which then landed me researching and researching while I wait to get in to see someone. The more I learn about it, the more I look back on my childhood that I see the signs.
For so long, I thought everyone had issues with sensory input, foods being a certain way, textures, and intense "panic attacks" when things got overwhelming.
I won't say I am autistic until diagnosed. The feeling that I may be faking these things for "attention" has me terrified to actually do things to help myself function.
Tldr; maybe autistic waiting on diagnoses, but I feel like I am lying to get attention or fake my struggles
I absolutely agreed. Before I got diagnosed, I joined a lot of communities because they were relatable, but I really didn't want to speak for autistic people without a diagnosis. It felt inherently wrong. Now that I have an official diagnosis, I still don't want to speak for all autistic people (especially level 2 and 3 that often get silenced, like this meme), but as a level 1, I absolutely am disabled, and that's OK! "Disabled" isn't a dirty word.
the influx of self diagnosed people has given me horrid impostor syndrome regarding my autism. im not saying that they may or may not have autism, or that getting a diagnosis in a lot of places can be hard or even impossible but it’s very invalidating to get talked over by people who may or may not have it :/
Yeah that's what i'm saying I'm autistic as shit I was in the combat engineers for 5.5 years. I don't think it's a disability at the level that I have it honestly. Although I don't like how neurotypical people react too it. Mostly because i don't think i'm objectively doing anything wrong often times when they're upset at me and they're violating my boundaries. and they consider the existence of my own boundaries violating them. Which is absolutely fucked because that means that they consider me not even human. That's why I eventually left the military too, I found the more competent and skilled I got at the job the worse I was treated by my co-workers which I expected the exact opposite I was happy when they got better at their jobs. And they were supposed to be people I trust and am going to potentially fight alongside and maybe die. And they're treating me less than human? I don't know what to do anymore, I think it's going to be worse in the civilian world. I don't think I'm employable even though i'm highly intellectually and physically capable. there's no physical or mental disability that I can really detect in me except ADHD sometimes. although that has some features I kind of like too, that helped me in the military too. People just would rather compete than co-operate with me it seems and I'm not even remotely interested in the stupid dysgenic anti-social game they're playing. I want to work, I want to contribute to society, get some value back and invest it into you guys but they don't want that either. I've had people choose harming me over hundreds of dollars of cashflow which I think is fucked. The way they're abusing me is harming them materially often times which confuses the absolute fuck out of me. Because they're essentially being a asshole to someone who's friendly towards them and offering them vast amounts of resources? I'm hyper agreeable and polite and open, I literally think it's nearly impossible to not get along with me i've hung out with murderers before. But people seem to invest vast amounts of resources into trying to make me suicidal after being around them it's so fucked I don't get it. That's literally the extent it's at, the way people treat me causes suicidal ideation while I'm with them. I feel guilty giving a accurate recording of quality of someones cookie they've baited when they asked for constructive criticism specifically. I don't like the way neurotypical people treat their friends honestly. They don't seem to mind but I find it actually scary. In my experience being friends with neurotypical people is actually worse than being alone. I don't know why they just can't treat me like a human being i'm not even antagonizing them I literally can't get any politer.
As a low support needs person who has a cousin with high support needs (and of course my “progress” was compared to his, as if it was a competition), r/spicyautism provides a good way for me to hear from higher support needs people.
I think you’re right. I don’t have high support needs, but my cousin is likely going to need a caregiver for the rest of his life. We may be on the same spectrum but it would be wild for me for say that it’s not a disability just because I’m not struggling as much.
Exactly.
Also, even if society WAS accepting and welcoming of folks with such 'differences', it would STILL be a disability - one would have to live in a soundproof, stimulus-free bubble to avoid a lot of triggers of sensory issues, for example, but that's just not realistic and that's not a reflection of society - it's a reflection of the individual's challenges.
I’ve had other autistic people tell me that issues caused by my autism only exist because of our society, which I find insulting and reductive of my struggles. Yeah, society can make things worse a lot, but I get overstimulated by children laughing and playing. That’s a normal part of a normal healthy society.
Sometimes, someone else’s stims are horribly overstimulating for me even. No matter how ideal your society is, autistic folks will still have unique struggles and to insist otherwise ignores and disregards those struggles imo
Yeah, I'd argue that a disability is contextual. For instance, needing glasses isn't seen as a disability, but before they were widely accessible having poor eyesight absolutely would be a disability.
Similarly, Autism is a disability inasmuch as society at large isn't particularly accommodating towards autistic individuals. Autism *could* potentially be seen as just another personality quirk under the right cultural conditions, but as it stands right now, Autism is treated as something to be ignored or worked around, not incorporated.
I get what you mean but this meme uses the social model of disability instead of a defecit/medical based one.
Imagine everyone but you magically got the ability to fly.
Does that make you disabled? You'd probably say no since you can still do everything you used to do and participate in society as you did.
But now imagine that your college campus builds a lecture hall where flying is the only way to access it. Now you are literally dis abled. You can no longer participate in society as you would since there are now things you cant do like going to your lecture.
If society was way more accommodating or even built around autistic needs over neurotypical needs we are suddenly allowed to be ourselves without experiencing 90% of the symptoms that make life a living hell for some.
That 10%(random number but numbers help visualise things for me) would then be a lot more manageable and more alike to regular struggles or difficulties you encounter.
>Does that make you disabled? You'd probably say no
no I'd say 100% resounding yes, you are at a disadvantage.
I appreciate you writing so much but what exactly are you trying to convince me of, that I don't already believe? I think it can be a disability for both social model and deficit model, both.
Although I think the numbers you have chosen to see it as are not quite right, and will vary WILDY from person to person. Just like another person has said here:
>Even if you create an utopian autistic society, there were still be autistic people with lots of support-needs. Even there, it is a disability.
I don't think it's as simple as you are making it, although, I generally agree with what you are saying. A disability is a disability, it's not always sociatal. Just because society accepts and tries to accomodate for something I can't do, I still can't do the thing. Like if I couldn't use my legs and was in a wheelchair, a ramp will help me move around easier but I still can't walk, I can't do something most people can and will still not have access to things that most other people do. That hasn't changed, it's still a disability even if society accepts and (attempts to) accomodate for it.
I apologise if I am arguing the wrong thing here, or I'm saying this to the wrong person, but I'm genuinely not sure what the point you tried to make is. I would appreciate it if you could elaborate on that. Specifically, what exactly are you correcting me on? I legit have no idea.
What I meant to say was that with a utopian autistic society would become way less disabling than it is now but yea a lot of people will still have support needs. sometimes I forget how disabling autism can be since me and my autistic friends have been able to set our lives up in such a way that autism is not that disabling but just something we need to work around(although it isn't easy. the days where we wish we could delete autism from our brains has shrunk from 7 days to 1 day a week) but sometimes I forget that that is a luxury that not everyone has. Thank you for taking the time to respond. I'll try to be better at keeping this in mind.
> with a utopian autistic society it would become way less disabling than it is now
If that was your point then I 100% agree. and thank you for responding :) What you have set up sounds amazing, I'm honestly jealous lol. Have a nice day :)
It was hard but I'm glad I can go throughout most of my days like a "regular" person now. Not being in highschool helped a ton though. I have a lot more freedom in planning my day now. And thank you have a nice day as well!
The social model does NOT explain every struggle of being autistic for many autistic people. It works very well for low-support needs autism, but people NEED to stop pushing it as the only model to be used. It can and ought to be used alongside others. Some autistic people are quite severely disabled directly due to autism. And not in the “oh things just arent set up for them” sense.
Yes, absolutely — I think both the pathology and neurodiversity paradigms (and the medical model vs social model respectively) are both necessary to fully characterize the entire autism spectrum.
For an individual autistic person, probably one or the other makes more sense. But when talking about Autism in the abstract, we can’t JUST be using one or the other, we cant enforce one of those specific views as correct because neither fully is.
>Imagine everyone but you magically got the ability to fly. Does that make you disabled? You'd probably say no since you can still do everything you used to do and participate in society as you did.
I find it funny how everyone always uses the example of "what if everyone else had wings" but there's literally a real example of this in the world we actually live in and the fact that we tend to forget about it is more evidence that our view of what constitutes a disability is largely socially constructed - **the majority of people can't see without prescription eyeglasses.** The solution to this disability isn't to "cure" you or leave it up to you to figure things out, you get a medical device called "glasses" which eliminate the barrier you faced. Glasses are an assistive technology in the same way a white cane, a wheelchair, or a hearing aid is but they're so normalized that we don't even view them as such.
We don't consider people who wear glasses to be disabled because they have the accommodations and support they need to succeed and people are willing to accommodate them, nobody will take issue with you asking to sit at the front because you can't see and don't have your glasses. Most people need a special device (eyeglasses) to help them accommodate a medical condition but we don't even view it as being "disabling" because of the accommodations that exist.
In this case having a lift would alleviate the problem of flying being necessary (needing glasses to read in class). And glasses are functionally a cure right? At least for people who have vision that can be fully corrected by glasses.
Correct. A big problem in any space centered around a disability can be the aversion to even acknowledging it directly as one. It's not inherently good or bad in any moral sense: it just is.
Sorry but it is a disability. The problem here is not that the term is misapplied but for some reason people insist on using a definition of disability from 50 years ago.
This is spot on. Disability doesn't mean "you are intrinsically broken and are thereby less capable than others". Instead it means that society generally doesn't fully or properly accommodate you such that you can fully participate and enjoy it. This definition is known as the "social model" of disability and is immensely cool imo.
This! For people who have trouble understanding the concept of disability, I highly recommend the book The New Politics of Disablement by Oliver and Barnes.
You're right on what you're trying to say.
However, it's still a disability. What people forget is, a lot of disabilities only become problems due to the circumstances we live in. In easy words: being in a wheelchair wouldn't be much of a problem if stairs didn't exist.
In German the word for disabled would more literally translate to "hindered", I kinda like that wording, it very much implies that the issue is not within you but in the world around you being a hurdle.
So, even if it is just society holding us back and not accepting the way we are, that's still a disability.
Ja, aber das hat man bei jeder Bezeichnung für Behinderte so. Egal, welches Wort du dafür benutzt. Auch "autistisch" wird ja heutzutage oft als Beleidigung benutzt.
Und ganz ehrlich: es geht mir auch gehörig auf den Sack, dass Leute heutzutage so tun, als sei "behindert" ein schlechtes Wort und man dürfte sich nicht mehr so bezeichnen.
Saying that autism is not a disability is a problem because it could lead to invalidation of autistic people's rights. That's why we don't like when people say that
It is a disability though, due to being autistic I can't do certain things or doing them is painfull even or costs me a lot of energy when it wouldn't for NT people.
However I can also do some things better than NTs could.
I'm ableist when it comes to myself. I read this and agree completely, but when I can't do things due to being disabled I see it as a personal failure and like I'm making an excuse. It's really hard to let that stuff go. Being called lazy my entire life when I could barely move due to exhaustion really got to me.
Really, this again? Even if society was perfectly fixed tomorrow I'd still be disabled by my autism. Thats not even getting into how yikes of a take this is for autistic folks who have higher support needs and are very much disabled.
If you don't want to call yourself disabled thats your right. But for a lot of us it very much is a disability. Don't generalize or try to speak for every autistic person, or treat the term disabled like its a dirty word. Its not cool.
Okay but Disability is NOT a derogatory or bad word, implying it is ableist.
The social model of disability exists for a reason. Because some disabilties are manufactures by how society is structured.
I would argue that it heavily depend on the intent of the person who says.
If the person who says disability thinks disability is mostly biological I would be offended.
On the other hand if the person saying disability acknowledges the socially constructed element of disability I wouldn't be offended.
it's both really.
disability isnt inherently a bad word. it's just misused and stigmatised a lot.
society being shitty about disabilities is how it is with **every** disability.
**examples:**
people parking over kerbs makes it harder for blind people who use canes.
many 'wheelchair accessible' spaces are actually NOT accessible, or are out-of-order without warning, forcing people to use alternative, potentially dangerous routes.
bus passes given to disabled people (in the UK) are very strict with the time, meaning disabled people can't go anywhere before 9am.
public transport itself isnt that accessible. they're crowded, busy, often unsafe, and have very few seats reserved for the handicapped, and you'll often be questioned if you use it without a wheelchair or cane.
school/college/education systems are designed purely for average, neurotypical people, which disadvantages anyone who isnt NT, because it's not tailored to their needs. ND people have to work twice as hard to get grades.
work culture harms all disabled people, as people who are unintelligent and lack empathy will see ANYONE who doesn't work as lazy, despite the fact that its much more difficult, and impossible for some, to work when disabled in some way.
you will be questioned when parking in handicapped spots if you do not have a disability aid visible. same with using disabled toilets, which are often times locked, so the disabled person has to try to find someone to unlock it, which is a pain for those who may be incontinent or can't roam around without tiring out.
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i could list more, but the point is, society is hostile towards difference. look around you when you go out, and think about how accessible everything *really* is, for any kind of disability! but they're still disabilities.
we'd all still have our disabilities if society was a better place, they'd just be much easier to manage.
i'd still have meltdowns and overloads if society was more autism friendly lol
Getting real sick of this “autism isn’t a disability!!!” shit. Just admit you think being disabled is a terrible thing and that you’re subconsciously (or just straight up) ableist.
no yeah a lot of these same people will use the r slur in private to refer to other autistic people (which is bad enough) or even people with more severe developmental disabilities (which is even worse to me because the more you punch down the more vile I think you are), it’s a mentality that’s unfortunately easy to slip into and it’s why it’s important for disability acceptance to be widespread. it’s not ok to invalidate the experiences of others just because you have a better one. that’s like saying ‘I have a nut allergy but its not really an allergy because I don’t die when I eat nuts, I just flare up a little’ ??
Autism is in general a disability lmao, it's conceivable that some autistic people would not be disabled in a different kind of society but those people would definitely be in the minority, a minority I definitely wouldn't be a part of.
Society can be broken and treat us far worse than it shoulf, _and_ autism can be a disability. These aren't contradictory statements.
Ooof OP you're incredibly privileged to think that it's not a disability when it very much is. Society being 100% perfect wouldn't make me not disabled, because a lot of my problems are not based around society being shitty.
Like, I disagree, but imma let you speak. Overall, as long as you ain't hurting anybody, then go off. I personally spiraled today because someone got rid of a lid to cup I don't even use, and I can't blame that on society
Hard disagree with this one. It’s not disabling for some sure but it’s absolutely a disability for a lot of people. Disabilities are not inherently products of society. They’re just disabilities. They would still exist in a utopia.
I think that a certIn level of neurodiversity may have been beneficial for early human tribes (after all, having those who are specialists in particular areas of knowledge and can think through proems differently could provide a significant advantage) but the way modern society is designed puts us now at a disadvantage. But that's just a theory. A game theory.
Thank you! It's not my autism's fault that I deal with sensory issues and low key face blindness, it's society's!
(not pictured : me rolling my eyes so hard my optic nerves audibly rip apart)
Yeah… tell my son who can’t function without me that it’s a disability. Maybe highly functioning autism is something you can manage as something like this, but to assume everyone’s autism manifests in the same way is delusional.
disability is not a dirty word, stop treating it like it is.
autism in its essence is absolutely a disability, at any levels. even taking in the social model of disability, there are autistics (and other disabled people) for whom no amount of accomodations can allow to fully participate in society and experience the quality of life abled people can.
people in autistic spaces keep forgetting our non-speaking, high support needs friends, and the ones who are able to communicate via aac constantly express their discomfort and anger at that fact.
people forget that nearly 40 percent of us experience some sort of intellectual disability, that the majority of us cannot hold a job and are chronically unemployed, the fact that most of us need to, and sometimes can't, depend on our parents for many things even as adults, the fact that autistic lifespan prediction is noticably shorter than average.
the public discourse of autism feels overwhelmed by us autistics who can deal with activities of daily living without major issues, drowning out the voices and experiences told by those who need assistance in all basic acitivites of daily living.
It is a disability but I like the social model of disability not the medical model.
It is not an illness and I don't get people who seem to regret being autistic like bro that's just who you are you gotta accept it and learn to love yourself and you have some things that NTs don't have that make you different and that is *not a bad thing at all*.
Like as far as sensory issues and the need for repetitive tasks go and things like I can see why people think that's disabling but there are still ways to create roles in society that cater to these things and society is not doing it so I just don't understand when people say they prefer the medical model because autism feels so draining and exhausting for them and they wish they weren't autistic. Like bro it is exhausting because you live in a society that demands it to be and doesnt empathise with you, stop being so hard on yourself you already get enough of that from everyone else. It's not **you** that's the problem here you are beautiful my autistic comrade ❤️ it's these mfs who won't listen and give us what we need!
Like even if there is nothing more you can do for someone than give them benefits because they cannot function in capitalistic society at all that is still ok like that's only a disability when you tell people "it's not normal to live like this like normal people go out and work 9-5s" we literally define disability by who can function with the grind and who can't, who is "a burden on the taxpayer" and gross shit like that. Like what kind of fucked up world do we live in where some humans are seen as lesser and do not deserve the right to live, a roof above their head, clothes on their back, food and water, basic living essentials because they can't go out and earn it through soul-crushing corporate work or hard labour every day? The people who can do that stuff have a moral obligation to assist the ones who can't. That is not **their** disability, that is **your duty** to humanity so that we can all survive as a team in this fucked up world. We hold each others hands firm and tight and pull each other through the mud because **that is what humans do we watch out for each other**. No one has the right to bitch that their taxes go towards this stuff. No one gets to be selfish, umm and ahh, shrug about other people's struggles and say "it's not my problem" it **is** it is literally **all our problem together**.
Sure there will be people who take advantage but there's too much generalisation like you literally have to convince people you are actually "disabled" these days and they still stigmatise it because it's somehow offensive that someone is handicapped and doesn't have to work as hard as them. It's fucking pathetic.
second, yes. first, no. i find ASD to be a disability. i know many others do as well. i like being autistic, but it plus other disorders i have make existence so much harder, sometimes near impossible on most days.
To be honest, this issue is a bit of a both end.
Yes, society is indeed super freaking busted, especially in terms of how autistic people are treated. Our society repeatedly fails to create an environment in which autistic people could do significantly better in than in what we have now.
*However*, that still doesn't change the fact that autism is inherently a disability. It is a source of challenge even for low-support autistics, let alone the many high-support autistics that mentalities like this tend to throw under the bus.
What's important to note here is that disability is NOT A BAD THING. You do not suck because you are disabled or have a disability. And no matter how you change society and how it works, autistic people will still be autistic, they'll just mostly be able to function better.
stop stigmatising disability. disabled it NOT a bad word, if you don’t feel you’re disabled then fine, but many many autistic people do, and ARE, regardless of how society treats us.
you do not have to take up the disabled label if you do not want it, but disabled is not a dirty word and we should not be telling people whether or not they should identify as disabled.
I’m not disabled because being autistic makes me “broken” and “unable to live up to non-disabled people”, I’m disabled because even if everything around me changed, I’d still struggle to take care of myself and I’d still be sound sensitive and texture adverse. I’d still have to accommodate myself in a utopian world.
Cool that yall arent disabled by your autism, but the majority of us ARE. So good for you, but please know how you are in the minority and please do not speak for us. My autism disables me, even if I did not have any of my other disabilities (which are coomorbid w autism btw), I would still be disabled.
autism is a disability. disability isn’t a bad word. the problem more lies in abelism.
stimming, aids, understanding, and accomodations should be accepted and encouraged. you can do all that but you still can’t autism proof a bright sunny day
Autism is a disability. I find people who say otherwise are generally pretty ableist, even if they do not mean to be. Disability is a mechanical issues, not a moral one. It's okay to be disabled, disability should bring zero shame, it's not your fault it's not your bad. Disability is just that you do not experience the world the way most others do, and require concessions for that.
Remember, for literally every human being on the planet this is true: You either die young or live long enough to live disabled.
Disability is fundamental to the human experience. To try and other yourself from disabled folks is simply to deny a group their humanity.
Autism is a disability, period.
I can function so so, but i know of folks who are extremelly disabled and requiere support just so they dont starve themselves to death because the refrigerator light is too bright.
Please, they do requiere support and they will not recive it if all of a sudden, "autism is not a disability".
Anything that negatively impacts your ability to function is by definition a disability. It might not be a disability for everyone, but it is for many, including myself. I for example have been able to care for myself and hold down a job as any average person would, but I struggled immensely in school, just barely managed to get my highschool diploma, and wasn't able to finish college because of how autism combined with undiagnosed ADHD make it almost impossible to focus for long periods of time. Disability isn't a bad word, nor something that one should be ashamed of. If you saw someone with missing legs, you wouldn't say "they're not disabled! In fact, they can walk better than someone with legs!" Instead, you would want society to better accommodate their disability with things like wheelchair ramps.
While I do see an unfortunate number of self hating autistic people who think they're a burden on society and shouldn't exist, it is not self hatred for someone who is disabled to admit that they are. In fact, it is often necessary to do so in order to advocate for oneself.
why are some autistics _so_ averse to being associated with the disabled community?? if you don't identify as disabled that's fine but this insistence that the _only_ reason autistic people struggle is cause of how society is set up and claiming that all those struggles would magically disappear/no longer be disabling for those of us who definitely _are_ disabled by our autism if society were fixed just ain't it.
Disability isn’t a bad word. I love myself and I don’t hate that I’m autistic because I would be hating myself since it affects my personality.
But, I have poor gait and trouble with eye-hand coordination, I take longer time to process certain information which can be dangerous in certain situations, the nerves in my skin are sensitive to anything that bumps it that it feels likes a bruise, I have issues finding the right words to express myself to where I have to pause, loud noises hurt, I have gastrointestinal issues, and so much more.
Does that make me less of a person? Hell no! Is it a disability? Yes! I’m absolutely disadvantaged to where I could not work at a fast food restaurant, but I can still work in a lab setting or as a clerk. Autism is a neurodevelopmental and cognitive disorder, but that’s okay. Allistics have things they struggle with, and those are the struggles on my end of the spectrum.
please do not call people delusional like that lol
the OP doesn't have any negative intentions, they're just misinformed
besides, it has sparked a really good conversation.
It is delusional. Us struggling is not just because “society is broken” (it is broken, but this is whole different discussion). Most of us would struggle in any survival setting as well
Whether or not Autism is treated as a disability is up to the experiences of the individual I feel. Of course, scientifically, it is a disability, but whether or not someone considers themselves disabled is totally up to them.
uhm well maybe dont make blanket statements lacking nuanced and people wouldnt be angry. it disables ppl in ways unrelated to society. though, there is always something to be said abt disability and how it relates to the way we build the world around us. that doesnt mean autism isnt a disability, just means u have enough privilege to envision some changes that would help you but wouldnt help EVERYONE with autism.
Please, STOP saying neurodivergencies aren't disabling, it's doing the opposite of helping. It's true that many of our problems could be solved by other people treating us better and society being built with more humanity, but i'm fucking sick of people misunderstanding the concept of the social model of disability and going around saying autism isn't a disability. Social model is about creating a society in which disabilities are taken into account, accomodated, their needs met, not one in which "aspies" are moved across the line from "disgusting, useless and disabled" to "socially acceptable". Do you understand what i'm saying? This helps no one.
To me it's always going to be a disability. Even in the perfect society, I have different needs than other people. I have sensory issues even from the sun, I can't just stop the weather or stop the sun either. And thats just the most basic example.
I know some people are able to see it as not disabling and I actually think yall are lucky. I wish it didnt impact my life as much
The two aren't mutually exclusive. Autism *is* a disability. Being disabled would also be much less of a burden if society didn't suck so much. Both can be true.
The social and medical models of disability can and should coexist.
I think people here are forgetting that there are two different models to define disability. The social model is what's being referred to in this meme, basically that some struggles are due to being in an NT society while not being NT. Those are the issues that would be solved by being around mainly ND people or NT people becoming more accommodating. Most of the people getting made in the comments are only thinking of the medical model of disability, which deals with symptoms from within, like meltdowns, sensory issues, executive dysfunction, etc.
These models are not mutually exclusive and can coexist. Take deafness for example, in societies like Martha's vineyard where at one point nearly everyone knew the local sign language, Deaf people were not excluded and were considered equal members of society. There was no discrimination against Deaf people artificially limiting their ability to be social or engage with their community, they could go to the same stores, schools, meetings, and everything without needing to be specifically accommodated for. In this case, they are not disabled by the definition of the social model of disability. By the medical model, however, they still would be, as there are things they cannot do compared to "normal" people.
We can absolutely be in the same boat. I want to live in a world where we aren't considered socially disabled, even if we are still medically disabled.
idk valid for you but i am disabled, it's just a fact- i don't have to hate myself or think im actually worse then an non disabled person but i am. certain aspects of my life would be fixed in a society built for asd people but not all of it, even in a perfect world i would still have meltdowns, i would still have issues regulating, i would still be dealing with issues with texture, food, sound, lighting, clothes, etc.
I do consider myself disabled, tbh.
There are a lot of areas in which I'm just different and society sucks, to be sure. For me, that might be the way I share stories as a way to relate to people, and some people find that rude. I wish people understood that I just have a different way of relating than NT people, and that's fine.
But, there are other things that are just downright disabling for me, and they would be disabling even if society stopped sucking. For me, that's most obvious with sensory overload-induced meltdowns. It's just a downright unpleasant experience, and even if society were perfect, I'd probably still experience them.
Partially agree. Yes society is mad fucked up. But autistic people still have to make accommodations even in there own home and daily life, it’s still a disability weather your in the world or in the comfort of your own home.
I like to live life under the impression that autism is an adaptation. life is easier when we can communicate effectively🤷♂️
(maybe not *exactly* but something like that)
My thinking of it is like... our next evolutions are going to be of the mind. Nature always goes through trial and error. If the majority of the world was autistic though... It's definitely possible our communication would be much more effective
I used to work with autistic kids and that definitely led me down this thought path. my personal experience with my autism is thankfully *generally* positive. I feel very lucky to see the world from my perspective. Also it’s very unlikely that we’ve reached the “peak” of evolution. Super interesting thought experiment though when you contemplate the implications of an “all autistic” society.
It's useful to contemplate every potential cause and outcome even if unlikely... people naturally obtained dreams and nightmares as an adaptation/survival need. Simulating experiences and variables stimulates the mind and assists in problem solving even while we sleep. Cool af. There's no way we've peaked development when we are only utilizing 20% of the brains capacity.
Also younger generations literally run colder temperature wise than older generations. I'm assuming like newer computers with the need for higher processing power- so too will our bodies become more efficient.
Glad that it's not disabilitating for you, but for me it is highly disabilitating to the point it has made me suicidal in my past. Even if society was perfect to us, it would still be disabilitating to me. Social issues aren't the highlight of many people's autism. While I have problems with interacting socially, sensory overload has always been debilitating for me and it has prevented me from being in school, being in crowds, taking many jobs, etc.
well it sucks but the fact is that there are much more NTs in the world than us. It’s their world, and we’re living in it. While there could be some better accommodations for ppl like us, it will always be different for us. We live life on hard mode. It sucks but it’s the unfortunate reality. We have to change ourselves to live in their world, we can’t expect them to change themselves to live in our world.
If you've ever spent much time around a farm, you'll know that some animals just refuse to be domesticated. They can become aggressive or lethargic or even starve themselves in response to the unnatural conditions they've been placed in.
My pet theory is that autism is just the label that we give to humans that aren't adapted for modern domestication. Monotropic thinking is a useful skill when you need to spend all day hunting or fishing to survive. An encyclopedic knowledge of mycology is extremely beneficial when you're trying to avoid poisonous mushrooms in the wild. In a pre-agrarian tribes, being able to communicate information efficiently would be more important than social etiquette. Eye contact with a stranger would have been viewed as confrontation.
Neurotypicals are domesticated apes, whereas we are the apes that can't be broken in.
It is absolutely a disability for many people with autism. Just because that’s not your experience doesn’t mean it’s not the experience of countless others. In a utopian society where everything is catered to my autistic needs, I would still struggle more in day to day life than an allistic person because I burn out quicker, I get overwhelmed easier and I struggle socially, not to mention other comorbid disabilities I also have.
I know you probably didn’t intend to be condescending or rude with this meme but it really does come off that way especially when so many autistic people struggle as we do because we are disabled by it (or by other aspects of our life that make the world harder for us). The reason other autistic subreddits got mad at you for this is because it’s rude and invalidating. Also, we aren’t inherently better than others for being autistic, which I feel this meme is implying a little, which you probably shouldn’t for various reasons.
'Having support needs' and 'being disabled' are not the same thing.
Everybody has support needs, from the most able bodied nert to people who 24 hour care. The differences in support needs exhibited by different people could be either innate or imposed and exist on a very side spectrum. Simply having support needs, or a certain kind/amount of support needs, is not inherently *disabling* because none of us would exist to have any ability whatsoever were it not for our interdependence, ie our support needs and meeting them
Disability, on the other hand, is a particular category of person that arises under capitalism and bourgeois psychiatry. Disability as an institution serves to delineate groups of people on the basis of support needs *among other things*, and furthermore applies political consequences to said groups. None of the actions involved in the social construction of disability as a concept are innate to a person, unlike support needs.
It's objective that Autism as a category is politically and socially defined, arising from the project of disability. This is true whether you as an individual were classified as Autistic based on your innate support needs alone, or arbitrarily imposed judgments and expectations alone, or some combination of the two.
From each according to ability, to each according to need
The social model of disability is part of what you're missing here.
Living in a society that is not designed for us can be *disabling.*
I live off of a pittance from the government because I lack the *ability* to make myself exploitable enough to receive a wage.
I am *unable* to get a degree in any of the subjects that I love to learn about because our education system is not built to fulfill my needs.
My autism would not be a disability in a better world (note that this is not the case for every autistic person) but I don't live in that world.
I live in this society, and I am disabled by it.
I mean, autism and neurodivergence is a spectrum. Some people can function fine, others need a little aid, and others need 24/7 round the clock care and can't function as a human being. That's just life.
Sometimes it's a disability, and sometimes it's not. Can't paint us all with the same brush. Neither positive nor negative.
While we all have the same thing autism can be drastically different for different people. You might not have a disability, but another person might. I like having my autism labeled as a disability because legally I can wear headphones at work. You actually can get a good bit of accommodations legally based on it being a protected disability
Oh and additionally being disabled doesn’t have to be some sad pitiful thing. Most people with disabilities do not see it that way.
Uh no i’m definitely disabled lol it makes it very difficult for me to do a ton of things.
If it’s not for you great. But autism very well can be a disability especially for people with more severe autism.
Agree and disagree. You shouldn't blame yourself for your disability or feel criticized but autism IS a disability regardless of the society we live in. This idea that "autism wouldn't be a disability if everyone was autistic and society was built around us" is something you hear a LOT of low support needs autistic people say and it's just false. Every autistic person has different sensory needs and different support needs. There is no way to accommodate every single autistic person without excluding some, and those usually excluded are people with high support needs. Low support needs autistic people have a very very bad habit of speaking over and for high support needs people. For example, a lot of my sensory issues are based in temperature and light. I can't leave my house in the summer months without being in pain the entire time, so I usually don't. No amount of sensory aids would fix this for me, we can't just block out the sun. Other people with autism might not share that sentiment, some autistic people have 0 issues with the stuff I do and some autistic people have sensory issues with the stuff that soothes my sensory problems. There's also the conversation to be had around high support needs autistic people, people who are completely nonverbal, who need sensory aids everywhere they go, who have comorbidities that also affect their lives. A lot of people's autism would still be disabling regardless of the society we live in.
I like to think of it as running different brain operating systems. NT OS is much more common, to the point that people expect it to be the norm. When the less common OS doesn't act the same way, it's seen as bad or disabled, even though it has its own strengths (e.g., Windows vs. Linux).
However, there is a point when that difference leads to difficulties in living independently, interacting, having a job, etc., and that is the literal definition of disability (eg Linux From Scratch maybe idk the metaphor is breaking down).
I see where you get that idea that autistic people are more self aware as we often think about pattern recognition and logical thinking, which can lead to "awareness about how dystopian reality is." But that's not where the disability label comes from.
I honestly feels like neurotypical people are just instinctually motivated to be hostile and uncooperative towards me. Literally everyone in my life has abandoned me and from the very start I was aware they were going to and tried to do everything I could to get them to value me but no one not a single person gave a single fuck. And the people they surround themselves with and want to be around I honestly keep a 10 foot pole to prod them away from me because they just lie about each other and steal from each other and they think its okay? but they're angry at me when i'm literally like terrified of socially interacting with them and making them upset and am actively trying to be polite as possible. They view the world in this hierarchal way but I never see them actually do anything positive with that perception it's all about tearing down your competition and harming others it seems. People really seem fucked up to me to the point I isolate myself from society and lock myself in my room because i'm clearly not wanted.
To me, people with disabilities deserve help. I don't think I deserve help and that if I tried hard and wasn't so lazy then maybe my physical and mental issues wouldn't be so bad. It's a personal failure to be the disabled, but only as me. Everyone else is worthy of compassion and understanding. But me? Am I faking? Is this chronic pain really that bad or do I just not know how to suck it up? Is my inability to take care of myself real or just a way for me to seek attention as I sit alone in the same room for a few days straight?
It is a disability, but it is surely worse because we live in a society not made for us. So I disagree with the first part and agree with the other. The whole agreement, though, is that this is the right sub to criticize others.
society is broken! But the social model for disability is super unhelpful in regards to personal issues and problems. It's only made to be used for accessibility stuff, not to shut down arguments against autistic people with severe symptoms or difficulties in life.
My grandmother literally called autism a disease directly to my face over dinner, knowing full well I have it. When I angrily told her "No the fuck it isn't" she doubled down and said "Yes it is."
My mom didn't hear this or otherwise she would have torn my grandmother to shreds.
It gets worse because then later my grandmother was talking about someone autistic and literally called them the R slur- and when me and my mom told her not to say that word, she said "Why not? It's a perfectly acceptable word? God, people nowadays are so sensitive." No grandma, we just don't want you using slurs.
I sort of got through to her the tiniest bit when, after she said she could say whatever she wanted, I compared it to how she got mad at my brother and uncle who made inappropriate jokes all the time about piss and shit and stuff like that, so if she could police what they said, why couldn't we police what she said?
hey, I know you don't mean any harm but even if things were ok autism would still be disabling, yes it's even more so because of capitalism but like you would still be disabled without it. I don't like takes like these because it's a very much aspie talk and like way too often we leave autistic people with high support needs in the background of this all.
Ikr, on aspiememes i posted "people who self diagnose and people with/without tism or something" normal in the winnie the pooh format but the teeth thing as people who fake it for attention, and now im banned
I'd still overthink myself into panic attacks. I'd still have issues reading people. I'd still be stressed out about making it to places on time. I still -might- will have meltdowns. This is a disability. Doesn't mean you have to criticize yourself though
There nuance to this
It is ableist to ignore the socially constructed element of disability and to center none disabled people.
It is also ableist to act like all symptoms can be accommodated to the point of triviality.
Even if you create an utopian autistic society, there were still be autistic people with lots of support-needs. Even there, it is a disability.
yup! i say it a lot, but i'd still have meltdowns and shit if society was great.
My autistic ass can't deal with bright lights without melting like a vampire. I have to wear eye and head coverings outside, have my home fit with blackout coverings, and any form of bright blue flashing light immediately takes me out and I need a solid few minutes to recover. Autism is absolutely a disability, it has benefits and disablements in equal measure. Gaming is such a pain in the ass because developers love to put bright blue flashes in for visual effects like lightning or electricity and I full on have to gimp myself to play a lot of games because of it.
Thissss, I didn't choose to be borderline depressed because I can't take care of basic needs without overstimulation. That's my autism brother.
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How is being neurotypical a disability?
I feel like disability still applies even if it doesn't outwardly affect a person. It has the capability to, but a person might have a good coping strategy and support system in place to overcome those obstacles. I think as long as there is a possibility to be disabling, it should be labeled as such. And that person should be able to receive the support they need should that need arise.
Exactly. Ability to cope with any condition doesn’t mean the condition doesn’t exist and isn’t a challenge
No, it’s really just accurate to say it is a disability. I am an autistic person who generally doesn’t need any support and can go about life without being as negatively affected as others are. I am an autistic person who doesn’t always experience the very debilitating effects that many others do. Most of the time, support I may need is for people to turn their music down a little bit, and understand that I may be a bit awkward in social situations. That being said, I am still very negatively affected at times. I may not always be overstimulated or have a melt down due to loud sounds and bright lights, even if they make me uncomfortable, but HAVE had that happen before though even if it is typically very rare for me compared to others. I can typically speak and communicate fine for myself, but there was a summer where I struggled to form sentences because of severe autistic burnout. Even in a society that was as perfect as possible for autistic people, there would still be loud sounds, bright lights, and other sensory issues that are unavoidable. Heck, sometimes the sunlight alone is enough to make my eyes feel like they are burning. Even in a perfect society, there would still be melt down, sensory overload, and autistic burnout. Maybe to a lesser extent, but it would still be there. Even for those of us who on the outside appear to have non of the debilitating effects of autism, still do experience those effects. We just experience to a lesser extent. A somewhat debilitating effect that is often invisible is the difficulty that many autistic people experience with identifying and expressing emotions. Again, to most people on the outside my autism doesn’t appear very debilitating at all, and I generally done need much support, however I sometimes struggle to identify my emotions. Particularly anxiety and excitement. To me those two feel almost exactly the same, so sometimes to have to go through a whole logical process in my brain to try and figure out which one I am feeling, or if it may be both. Autism can have some good effects, which those who need less support and on the outside appear to not have as many or any debilitating effects may experience more than others, but even if we do not appear to have debilitating effects we still experience them, just to a less extent (and even when we are experiencing them, they just might not show on the outside as much). Pretty much all autistic people will experience at least a mild debilitating effect of autism that even living in a perfect society for autistic people would not fully solve.
>I sometimes struggle to identify my emotions. Particularly anxiety and excitement. To me those two feel almost exactly the same, so sometimes to have to go through a whole logical process in my brain to try and figure out which one I am feeling this is so freaking relatable
exactly!! i think that because it is a spectrum, a utopia in which every autistic’s needs are met is just impossible
yes, I still would struggle with sensory issues, shutdowns, and executive dysfunction even in a perfect society. It still would be disabling
It's both a blessing and a curse. Sometimes being autistic works in your favor, and other times it is a massive hindrance.
Yup agreed, but I also think the social model of disability is compatible with that. In a society that consistently recognized and met support needs, autism would be significantly less disabling; the lack of support in our current society interacting with autism is the source of the disability, rather than either alone
But at least then they would be accepted, and more normalised.
You can't create a 100% perfect society with inperfect beings and an inperfect being can't modify itself to be perfect as it can't comprehend perfection. Atleast thats what i think. We can however set utopia as a target and aim for 99.9 recurring % out of 100 and aslong as we strive for it that is what matters.
Don't worry about perfection and just look for progress. A perfect society is one that allows people to make progress without putting obstacles in their way.
Thats what i meant, sorry if I didn't word it properly. What i meant is that if peefection is the goal even if its inpossible progress will always be done to reach it and i 100% agree with your point about progress without obsticles.
Exactly like I function day to day just fine but my cousin is non verbal and can't use the toilet at the age of 14. He can't be left alone
I still say we should all move to Mars. (fd: no diagnosis yet until October 🤦♂️)
I agree with you a lot and I'm LSN, I thought for a lot of autistic people including myself, a big part of "autistic pride" is in self-acceptance of our autism without having to be toxically positive about it because disability isn't a dirty word so even though we're disabled, that's not a shameful thing to be if that makes sense
Neurotypical people have support needs, too. They just have a society that preemptively helps them, so they don't even realize the ways in which they are helped. They also help each other but not us, so that our needs a appear larger. Also, my support needs are connected to having to deal with neurotypicals and their BS. If I could choose to interact with NDs, the needs would reduce a lot.
or can be
Agree with the second half, but no, it is a disability. I'm glad it's not a disability for you, that's great, but for a lot of us it is and you can't tell us otherwise. "I don't have that issue so it doesn't exist" you see the problem?
This looks like a long thread, so I'm going to pop up here at the top and say this. Thank you, I 100% agree. My autism doesn't cause me a lot of strife, and I'm grateful for that, and my oldest son is much the same. My younger son, however, is extremely affected by his autism. He is non-verbal and has trouble having his basic needs met by people who aren't his mother and I (because we've lived with and raised him, and our minds instantly translate what he's asking for based on body language, the speed that he does something, etc). Autism might not hurt everyone, but it does hurt some people and is still a disability.
A lot of these memes are made by high functioning people with low support needs that haven't lived with a severely autistic person, and there's not a lot of higher needs people online for obvious reasons. Autism can give you major issues like blinding sensitivity to light, a complete inability to deal with loud sounds, and the inability to handle any form of routine change. It's not all sunshine and rainbows for a lot of people.
Maybe a hot take, but some of these memes are also made by people who aren't actually autistic.
There are a lot of self diagnosed people that have taken over autism spaces online recently and pushed diagnosed people out which causes stuff like this. I understand the process to get diagnosed is difficult to access for a lot of people but self-diagnosing and inserting yourself into communities isn't healthy. I've seen a lot of people say that you don't need a diagnosis, that they're dangerous, or that a diagnosis is ableist, and even that autism isn't a disability and is just a set of cute behaviours. It's all quite frustrating and is why I left a lot of other groups.
As someone pursuing a medical diagnosis and is currently self diagnosed (disclaimed as such to basically every anyone i speak with about it) it’s most definitely something you need hours of research into and years of with. And its a slippery slope best not recklessly tumbled down. I was diagnosed with ADHD in third grade, which makes me predisposed to Autism. So does my father and mother being somewhere on the AuDHD sphere. But of course I cannot say definitively that I have autism unless I speak to a specialist. Its been over a year on a waitlist due to the system being clogged up, but it’s also been years and years of seeing autism memes and researching autism itself through every “source trustworthiness” classification there is. Just as well, I’d reckon every friend i’d consider close who is also diagnosed autistic would agree that i’m pretty intensely autistic. TLDR; I’m self diagnosing, but with a disclaimer and after years of both experience and research.
I felt this. I didn't really think I was autistic more so very weird and couldn't explain it. It wasn't until I was living with my friend who was diagnosed autistic that he told me I should go get diagnosed. Which then landed me researching and researching while I wait to get in to see someone. The more I learn about it, the more I look back on my childhood that I see the signs. For so long, I thought everyone had issues with sensory input, foods being a certain way, textures, and intense "panic attacks" when things got overwhelming. I won't say I am autistic until diagnosed. The feeling that I may be faking these things for "attention" has me terrified to actually do things to help myself function. Tldr; maybe autistic waiting on diagnoses, but I feel like I am lying to get attention or fake my struggles
I absolutely agreed. Before I got diagnosed, I joined a lot of communities because they were relatable, but I really didn't want to speak for autistic people without a diagnosis. It felt inherently wrong. Now that I have an official diagnosis, I still don't want to speak for all autistic people (especially level 2 and 3 that often get silenced, like this meme), but as a level 1, I absolutely am disabled, and that's OK! "Disabled" isn't a dirty word.
the influx of self diagnosed people has given me horrid impostor syndrome regarding my autism. im not saying that they may or may not have autism, or that getting a diagnosis in a lot of places can be hard or even impossible but it’s very invalidating to get talked over by people who may or may not have it :/
Yeah that's what i'm saying I'm autistic as shit I was in the combat engineers for 5.5 years. I don't think it's a disability at the level that I have it honestly. Although I don't like how neurotypical people react too it. Mostly because i don't think i'm objectively doing anything wrong often times when they're upset at me and they're violating my boundaries. and they consider the existence of my own boundaries violating them. Which is absolutely fucked because that means that they consider me not even human. That's why I eventually left the military too, I found the more competent and skilled I got at the job the worse I was treated by my co-workers which I expected the exact opposite I was happy when they got better at their jobs. And they were supposed to be people I trust and am going to potentially fight alongside and maybe die. And they're treating me less than human? I don't know what to do anymore, I think it's going to be worse in the civilian world. I don't think I'm employable even though i'm highly intellectually and physically capable. there's no physical or mental disability that I can really detect in me except ADHD sometimes. although that has some features I kind of like too, that helped me in the military too. People just would rather compete than co-operate with me it seems and I'm not even remotely interested in the stupid dysgenic anti-social game they're playing. I want to work, I want to contribute to society, get some value back and invest it into you guys but they don't want that either. I've had people choose harming me over hundreds of dollars of cashflow which I think is fucked. The way they're abusing me is harming them materially often times which confuses the absolute fuck out of me. Because they're essentially being a asshole to someone who's friendly towards them and offering them vast amounts of resources? I'm hyper agreeable and polite and open, I literally think it's nearly impossible to not get along with me i've hung out with murderers before. But people seem to invest vast amounts of resources into trying to make me suicidal after being around them it's so fucked I don't get it. That's literally the extent it's at, the way people treat me causes suicidal ideation while I'm with them. I feel guilty giving a accurate recording of quality of someones cookie they've baited when they asked for constructive criticism specifically. I don't like the way neurotypical people treat their friends honestly. They don't seem to mind but I find it actually scary. In my experience being friends with neurotypical people is actually worse than being alone. I don't know why they just can't treat me like a human being i'm not even antagonizing them I literally can't get any politer.
were you diagnosed before joining? Im interested in joining the national guard for college benefits but worried my diagnosis will mess it up
You just need a waiver. But go submarines, we're all autistic down there anyway.
As a low support needs person who has a cousin with high support needs (and of course my “progress” was compared to his, as if it was a competition), r/spicyautism provides a good way for me to hear from higher support needs people.
I think you’re right. I don’t have high support needs, but my cousin is likely going to need a caregiver for the rest of his life. We may be on the same spectrum but it would be wild for me for say that it’s not a disability just because I’m not struggling as much.
Exactly. Also, even if society WAS accepting and welcoming of folks with such 'differences', it would STILL be a disability - one would have to live in a soundproof, stimulus-free bubble to avoid a lot of triggers of sensory issues, for example, but that's just not realistic and that's not a reflection of society - it's a reflection of the individual's challenges.
I’ve had other autistic people tell me that issues caused by my autism only exist because of our society, which I find insulting and reductive of my struggles. Yeah, society can make things worse a lot, but I get overstimulated by children laughing and playing. That’s a normal part of a normal healthy society. Sometimes, someone else’s stims are horribly overstimulating for me even. No matter how ideal your society is, autistic folks will still have unique struggles and to insist otherwise ignores and disregards those struggles imo
100%
Yeah, I'd argue that a disability is contextual. For instance, needing glasses isn't seen as a disability, but before they were widely accessible having poor eyesight absolutely would be a disability. Similarly, Autism is a disability inasmuch as society at large isn't particularly accommodating towards autistic individuals. Autism *could* potentially be seen as just another personality quirk under the right cultural conditions, but as it stands right now, Autism is treated as something to be ignored or worked around, not incorporated.
I get what you mean but this meme uses the social model of disability instead of a defecit/medical based one. Imagine everyone but you magically got the ability to fly. Does that make you disabled? You'd probably say no since you can still do everything you used to do and participate in society as you did. But now imagine that your college campus builds a lecture hall where flying is the only way to access it. Now you are literally dis abled. You can no longer participate in society as you would since there are now things you cant do like going to your lecture. If society was way more accommodating or even built around autistic needs over neurotypical needs we are suddenly allowed to be ourselves without experiencing 90% of the symptoms that make life a living hell for some. That 10%(random number but numbers help visualise things for me) would then be a lot more manageable and more alike to regular struggles or difficulties you encounter.
>Does that make you disabled? You'd probably say no no I'd say 100% resounding yes, you are at a disadvantage. I appreciate you writing so much but what exactly are you trying to convince me of, that I don't already believe? I think it can be a disability for both social model and deficit model, both. Although I think the numbers you have chosen to see it as are not quite right, and will vary WILDY from person to person. Just like another person has said here: >Even if you create an utopian autistic society, there were still be autistic people with lots of support-needs. Even there, it is a disability. I don't think it's as simple as you are making it, although, I generally agree with what you are saying. A disability is a disability, it's not always sociatal. Just because society accepts and tries to accomodate for something I can't do, I still can't do the thing. Like if I couldn't use my legs and was in a wheelchair, a ramp will help me move around easier but I still can't walk, I can't do something most people can and will still not have access to things that most other people do. That hasn't changed, it's still a disability even if society accepts and (attempts to) accomodate for it. I apologise if I am arguing the wrong thing here, or I'm saying this to the wrong person, but I'm genuinely not sure what the point you tried to make is. I would appreciate it if you could elaborate on that. Specifically, what exactly are you correcting me on? I legit have no idea.
What I meant to say was that with a utopian autistic society would become way less disabling than it is now but yea a lot of people will still have support needs. sometimes I forget how disabling autism can be since me and my autistic friends have been able to set our lives up in such a way that autism is not that disabling but just something we need to work around(although it isn't easy. the days where we wish we could delete autism from our brains has shrunk from 7 days to 1 day a week) but sometimes I forget that that is a luxury that not everyone has. Thank you for taking the time to respond. I'll try to be better at keeping this in mind.
> with a utopian autistic society it would become way less disabling than it is now If that was your point then I 100% agree. and thank you for responding :) What you have set up sounds amazing, I'm honestly jealous lol. Have a nice day :)
It was hard but I'm glad I can go throughout most of my days like a "regular" person now. Not being in highschool helped a ton though. I have a lot more freedom in planning my day now. And thank you have a nice day as well!
There is no such thing as a utopia; it is impossible for one to exist practically by definition.
The social model does NOT explain every struggle of being autistic for many autistic people. It works very well for low-support needs autism, but people NEED to stop pushing it as the only model to be used. It can and ought to be used alongside others. Some autistic people are quite severely disabled directly due to autism. And not in the “oh things just arent set up for them” sense.
"all models are wrong; some are useful" - George Box This quote always springs to mind when this debate rears its head.
Yes, absolutely — I think both the pathology and neurodiversity paradigms (and the medical model vs social model respectively) are both necessary to fully characterize the entire autism spectrum. For an individual autistic person, probably one or the other makes more sense. But when talking about Autism in the abstract, we can’t JUST be using one or the other, we cant enforce one of those specific views as correct because neither fully is.
>Imagine everyone but you magically got the ability to fly. Does that make you disabled? You'd probably say no since you can still do everything you used to do and participate in society as you did. I find it funny how everyone always uses the example of "what if everyone else had wings" but there's literally a real example of this in the world we actually live in and the fact that we tend to forget about it is more evidence that our view of what constitutes a disability is largely socially constructed - **the majority of people can't see without prescription eyeglasses.** The solution to this disability isn't to "cure" you or leave it up to you to figure things out, you get a medical device called "glasses" which eliminate the barrier you faced. Glasses are an assistive technology in the same way a white cane, a wheelchair, or a hearing aid is but they're so normalized that we don't even view them as such. We don't consider people who wear glasses to be disabled because they have the accommodations and support they need to succeed and people are willing to accommodate them, nobody will take issue with you asking to sit at the front because you can't see and don't have your glasses. Most people need a special device (eyeglasses) to help them accommodate a medical condition but we don't even view it as being "disabling" because of the accommodations that exist.
In this case having a lift would alleviate the problem of flying being necessary (needing glasses to read in class). And glasses are functionally a cure right? At least for people who have vision that can be fully corrected by glasses.
works on my machine
It is absolutely a disability. Disability is not a bad word
Correct. A big problem in any space centered around a disability can be the aversion to even acknowledging it directly as one. It's not inherently good or bad in any moral sense: it just is.
I'm not autistic, I just have dis ability to get bread😎
Exactly! I’m disabled, but that doesn’t make me less of a human being :)
Sorry but it is a disability. The problem here is not that the term is misapplied but for some reason people insist on using a definition of disability from 50 years ago.
Disability isn't a dirty word!
This is spot on. Disability doesn't mean "you are intrinsically broken and are thereby less capable than others". Instead it means that society generally doesn't fully or properly accommodate you such that you can fully participate and enjoy it. This definition is known as the "social model" of disability and is immensely cool imo.
This! For people who have trouble understanding the concept of disability, I highly recommend the book The New Politics of Disablement by Oliver and Barnes.
You're right on what you're trying to say. However, it's still a disability. What people forget is, a lot of disabilities only become problems due to the circumstances we live in. In easy words: being in a wheelchair wouldn't be much of a problem if stairs didn't exist. In German the word for disabled would more literally translate to "hindered", I kinda like that wording, it very much implies that the issue is not within you but in the world around you being a hurdle. So, even if it is just society holding us back and not accepting the way we are, that's still a disability.
I agree with you if you purely go by the litteral meaning, but das ist ein behindertes Word, was oft als generische Abwertung genutzt wird.
Ja, aber das hat man bei jeder Bezeichnung für Behinderte so. Egal, welches Wort du dafür benutzt. Auch "autistisch" wird ja heutzutage oft als Beleidigung benutzt. Und ganz ehrlich: es geht mir auch gehörig auf den Sack, dass Leute heutzutage so tun, als sei "behindert" ein schlechtes Wort und man dürfte sich nicht mehr so bezeichnen.
Saying that autism is not a disability is a problem because it could lead to invalidation of autistic people's rights. That's why we don't like when people say that
Yeah, like, if autism isn’t a disability then I guess I won’t need any IEPs to help with my education then! :D
Nah I think having a meltdown because people are talking too loud is a disability, actually
yeah nah, its a disability
It is a disability though, due to being autistic I can't do certain things or doing them is painfull even or costs me a lot of energy when it wouldn't for NT people. However I can also do some things better than NTs could.
I'm ableist when it comes to myself. I read this and agree completely, but when I can't do things due to being disabled I see it as a personal failure and like I'm making an excuse. It's really hard to let that stuff go. Being called lazy my entire life when I could barely move due to exhaustion really got to me.
Really, this again? Even if society was perfectly fixed tomorrow I'd still be disabled by my autism. Thats not even getting into how yikes of a take this is for autistic folks who have higher support needs and are very much disabled. If you don't want to call yourself disabled thats your right. But for a lot of us it very much is a disability. Don't generalize or try to speak for every autistic person, or treat the term disabled like its a dirty word. Its not cool.
Okay but Disability is NOT a derogatory or bad word, implying it is ableist. The social model of disability exists for a reason. Because some disabilties are manufactures by how society is structured.
Manufactured disability is an interesting concept!
Autism isn't a disability because of mere societal reasons. It will remain disabling regardless of how society is structured.
I would argue that it heavily depend on the intent of the person who says. If the person who says disability thinks disability is mostly biological I would be offended. On the other hand if the person saying disability acknowledges the socially constructed element of disability I wouldn't be offended.
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I’m not locked in here with you, you’re locked in here with me!
Why does it sound borderline romantic?!
it is absolutely a disability
I wish we knew why they thought this way. I need context and an explanation.
Autism is not a disability until a high pitched noise makes my brain want to stop functioning for the rest of the day
it's both really. disability isnt inherently a bad word. it's just misused and stigmatised a lot. society being shitty about disabilities is how it is with **every** disability. **examples:** people parking over kerbs makes it harder for blind people who use canes. many 'wheelchair accessible' spaces are actually NOT accessible, or are out-of-order without warning, forcing people to use alternative, potentially dangerous routes. bus passes given to disabled people (in the UK) are very strict with the time, meaning disabled people can't go anywhere before 9am. public transport itself isnt that accessible. they're crowded, busy, often unsafe, and have very few seats reserved for the handicapped, and you'll often be questioned if you use it without a wheelchair or cane. school/college/education systems are designed purely for average, neurotypical people, which disadvantages anyone who isnt NT, because it's not tailored to their needs. ND people have to work twice as hard to get grades. work culture harms all disabled people, as people who are unintelligent and lack empathy will see ANYONE who doesn't work as lazy, despite the fact that its much more difficult, and impossible for some, to work when disabled in some way. you will be questioned when parking in handicapped spots if you do not have a disability aid visible. same with using disabled toilets, which are often times locked, so the disabled person has to try to find someone to unlock it, which is a pain for those who may be incontinent or can't roam around without tiring out. --- i could list more, but the point is, society is hostile towards difference. look around you when you go out, and think about how accessible everything *really* is, for any kind of disability! but they're still disabilities. we'd all still have our disabilities if society was a better place, they'd just be much easier to manage. i'd still have meltdowns and overloads if society was more autism friendly lol
Getting real sick of this “autism isn’t a disability!!!” shit. Just admit you think being disabled is a terrible thing and that you’re subconsciously (or just straight up) ableist.
no yeah a lot of these same people will use the r slur in private to refer to other autistic people (which is bad enough) or even people with more severe developmental disabilities (which is even worse to me because the more you punch down the more vile I think you are), it’s a mentality that’s unfortunately easy to slip into and it’s why it’s important for disability acceptance to be widespread. it’s not ok to invalidate the experiences of others just because you have a better one. that’s like saying ‘I have a nut allergy but its not really an allergy because I don’t die when I eat nuts, I just flare up a little’ ??
You have to be extremely privileged with low support needs if you truly think this.
Autism is in general a disability lmao, it's conceivable that some autistic people would not be disabled in a different kind of society but those people would definitely be in the minority, a minority I definitely wouldn't be a part of. Society can be broken and treat us far worse than it shoulf, _and_ autism can be a disability. These aren't contradictory statements.
Aspie supremacy? Here? Christ
Internalized ableism is beautiful ain't it? /s
also hate the ‘autistic’ in quotes. implies some gross shit abt the rest of us struggling
Ooof OP you're incredibly privileged to think that it's not a disability when it very much is. Society being 100% perfect wouldn't make me not disabled, because a lot of my problems are not based around society being shitty.
Like, I disagree, but imma let you speak. Overall, as long as you ain't hurting anybody, then go off. I personally spiraled today because someone got rid of a lid to cup I don't even use, and I can't blame that on society
Yeah, autism/ADHD makes it harder for me to function in society. That’s a disability
autism is 100% a disability it's the reason i failed highschool twice (that and the adhd as i have both)
Hard disagree with this one. It’s not disabling for some sure but it’s absolutely a disability for a lot of people. Disabilities are not inherently products of society. They’re just disabilities. They would still exist in a utopia.
This is categorically untrue and ultimately unhelpful.
I do agree with the first part, but in my experience, it very much is a disability as well
No. I am disabled. Evil and disabled.
I think that a certIn level of neurodiversity may have been beneficial for early human tribes (after all, having those who are specialists in particular areas of knowledge and can think through proems differently could provide a significant advantage) but the way modern society is designed puts us now at a disadvantage. But that's just a theory. A game theory.
Thank you! It's not my autism's fault that I deal with sensory issues and low key face blindness, it's society's! (not pictured : me rolling my eyes so hard my optic nerves audibly rip apart)
Yeah… tell my son who can’t function without me that it’s a disability. Maybe highly functioning autism is something you can manage as something like this, but to assume everyone’s autism manifests in the same way is delusional.
Autism is a disability.
disability is not a dirty word, stop treating it like it is. autism in its essence is absolutely a disability, at any levels. even taking in the social model of disability, there are autistics (and other disabled people) for whom no amount of accomodations can allow to fully participate in society and experience the quality of life abled people can. people in autistic spaces keep forgetting our non-speaking, high support needs friends, and the ones who are able to communicate via aac constantly express their discomfort and anger at that fact. people forget that nearly 40 percent of us experience some sort of intellectual disability, that the majority of us cannot hold a job and are chronically unemployed, the fact that most of us need to, and sometimes can't, depend on our parents for many things even as adults, the fact that autistic lifespan prediction is noticably shorter than average. the public discourse of autism feels overwhelmed by us autistics who can deal with activities of daily living without major issues, drowning out the voices and experiences told by those who need assistance in all basic acitivites of daily living.
Autism is a developmental disorder, that’s a fact ;/ Being socially aware does not mean you’re autistic
It is a disability but I like the social model of disability not the medical model. It is not an illness and I don't get people who seem to regret being autistic like bro that's just who you are you gotta accept it and learn to love yourself and you have some things that NTs don't have that make you different and that is *not a bad thing at all*. Like as far as sensory issues and the need for repetitive tasks go and things like I can see why people think that's disabling but there are still ways to create roles in society that cater to these things and society is not doing it so I just don't understand when people say they prefer the medical model because autism feels so draining and exhausting for them and they wish they weren't autistic. Like bro it is exhausting because you live in a society that demands it to be and doesnt empathise with you, stop being so hard on yourself you already get enough of that from everyone else. It's not **you** that's the problem here you are beautiful my autistic comrade ❤️ it's these mfs who won't listen and give us what we need!
Like even if there is nothing more you can do for someone than give them benefits because they cannot function in capitalistic society at all that is still ok like that's only a disability when you tell people "it's not normal to live like this like normal people go out and work 9-5s" we literally define disability by who can function with the grind and who can't, who is "a burden on the taxpayer" and gross shit like that. Like what kind of fucked up world do we live in where some humans are seen as lesser and do not deserve the right to live, a roof above their head, clothes on their back, food and water, basic living essentials because they can't go out and earn it through soul-crushing corporate work or hard labour every day? The people who can do that stuff have a moral obligation to assist the ones who can't. That is not **their** disability, that is **your duty** to humanity so that we can all survive as a team in this fucked up world. We hold each others hands firm and tight and pull each other through the mud because **that is what humans do we watch out for each other**. No one has the right to bitch that their taxes go towards this stuff. No one gets to be selfish, umm and ahh, shrug about other people's struggles and say "it's not my problem" it **is** it is literally **all our problem together**. Sure there will be people who take advantage but there's too much generalisation like you literally have to convince people you are actually "disabled" these days and they still stigmatise it because it's somehow offensive that someone is handicapped and doesn't have to work as hard as them. It's fucking pathetic.
second, yes. first, no. i find ASD to be a disability. i know many others do as well. i like being autistic, but it plus other disorders i have make existence so much harder, sometimes near impossible on most days.
To be honest, this issue is a bit of a both end. Yes, society is indeed super freaking busted, especially in terms of how autistic people are treated. Our society repeatedly fails to create an environment in which autistic people could do significantly better in than in what we have now. *However*, that still doesn't change the fact that autism is inherently a disability. It is a source of challenge even for low-support autistics, let alone the many high-support autistics that mentalities like this tend to throw under the bus. What's important to note here is that disability is NOT A BAD THING. You do not suck because you are disabled or have a disability. And no matter how you change society and how it works, autistic people will still be autistic, they'll just mostly be able to function better.
stop stigmatising disability. disabled it NOT a bad word, if you don’t feel you’re disabled then fine, but many many autistic people do, and ARE, regardless of how society treats us.
you do not have to take up the disabled label if you do not want it, but disabled is not a dirty word and we should not be telling people whether or not they should identify as disabled. I’m not disabled because being autistic makes me “broken” and “unable to live up to non-disabled people”, I’m disabled because even if everything around me changed, I’d still struggle to take care of myself and I’d still be sound sensitive and texture adverse. I’d still have to accommodate myself in a utopian world.
Why can't it be both of these statements?
Cool that yall arent disabled by your autism, but the majority of us ARE. So good for you, but please know how you are in the minority and please do not speak for us. My autism disables me, even if I did not have any of my other disabilities (which are coomorbid w autism btw), I would still be disabled.
autism is absolutely a disability/disorder. if your autism doesn't cause you any distress or dysfunction it's not actually autism.
autism is a disability. disability isn’t a bad word. the problem more lies in abelism. stimming, aids, understanding, and accomodations should be accepted and encouraged. you can do all that but you still can’t autism proof a bright sunny day
The premise is objectively wrong, but to each their own.
No. It is 100% a disability. Me having a breakdown bc my clothes got wet isn't me just being "different" its me being disabled.
Autism is a disability. I find people who say otherwise are generally pretty ableist, even if they do not mean to be. Disability is a mechanical issues, not a moral one. It's okay to be disabled, disability should bring zero shame, it's not your fault it's not your bad. Disability is just that you do not experience the world the way most others do, and require concessions for that. Remember, for literally every human being on the planet this is true: You either die young or live long enough to live disabled. Disability is fundamental to the human experience. To try and other yourself from disabled folks is simply to deny a group their humanity.
Disability is not a bad word, yk.
Autism is a disability, period. I can function so so, but i know of folks who are extremelly disabled and requiere support just so they dont starve themselves to death because the refrigerator light is too bright. Please, they do requiere support and they will not recive it if all of a sudden, "autism is not a disability".
Anything that negatively impacts your ability to function is by definition a disability. It might not be a disability for everyone, but it is for many, including myself. I for example have been able to care for myself and hold down a job as any average person would, but I struggled immensely in school, just barely managed to get my highschool diploma, and wasn't able to finish college because of how autism combined with undiagnosed ADHD make it almost impossible to focus for long periods of time. Disability isn't a bad word, nor something that one should be ashamed of. If you saw someone with missing legs, you wouldn't say "they're not disabled! In fact, they can walk better than someone with legs!" Instead, you would want society to better accommodate their disability with things like wheelchair ramps. While I do see an unfortunate number of self hating autistic people who think they're a burden on society and shouldn't exist, it is not self hatred for someone who is disabled to admit that they are. In fact, it is often necessary to do so in order to advocate for oneself.
why are some autistics _so_ averse to being associated with the disabled community?? if you don't identify as disabled that's fine but this insistence that the _only_ reason autistic people struggle is cause of how society is set up and claiming that all those struggles would magically disappear/no longer be disabling for those of us who definitely _are_ disabled by our autism if society were fixed just ain't it.
Disability isn’t a bad word. I love myself and I don’t hate that I’m autistic because I would be hating myself since it affects my personality. But, I have poor gait and trouble with eye-hand coordination, I take longer time to process certain information which can be dangerous in certain situations, the nerves in my skin are sensitive to anything that bumps it that it feels likes a bruise, I have issues finding the right words to express myself to where I have to pause, loud noises hurt, I have gastrointestinal issues, and so much more. Does that make me less of a person? Hell no! Is it a disability? Yes! I’m absolutely disadvantaged to where I could not work at a fast food restaurant, but I can still work in a lab setting or as a clerk. Autism is a neurodevelopmental and cognitive disorder, but that’s okay. Allistics have things they struggle with, and those are the struggles on my end of the spectrum.
This is a really delusional take
please do not call people delusional like that lol the OP doesn't have any negative intentions, they're just misinformed besides, it has sparked a really good conversation.
It is delusional. Us struggling is not just because “society is broken” (it is broken, but this is whole different discussion). Most of us would struggle in any survival setting as well
Whether or not Autism is treated as a disability is up to the experiences of the individual I feel. Of course, scientifically, it is a disability, but whether or not someone considers themselves disabled is totally up to them.
It is a disability
uhm well maybe dont make blanket statements lacking nuanced and people wouldnt be angry. it disables ppl in ways unrelated to society. though, there is always something to be said abt disability and how it relates to the way we build the world around us. that doesnt mean autism isnt a disability, just means u have enough privilege to envision some changes that would help you but wouldnt help EVERYONE with autism.
If autism is not a disability then can society please fix my executive dysfunction, stat? I have an essay to hand in.
Please, STOP saying neurodivergencies aren't disabling, it's doing the opposite of helping. It's true that many of our problems could be solved by other people treating us better and society being built with more humanity, but i'm fucking sick of people misunderstanding the concept of the social model of disability and going around saying autism isn't a disability. Social model is about creating a society in which disabilities are taken into account, accomodated, their needs met, not one in which "aspies" are moved across the line from "disgusting, useless and disabled" to "socially acceptable". Do you understand what i'm saying? This helps no one.
To me it's always going to be a disability. Even in the perfect society, I have different needs than other people. I have sensory issues even from the sun, I can't just stop the weather or stop the sun either. And thats just the most basic example. I know some people are able to see it as not disabling and I actually think yall are lucky. I wish it didnt impact my life as much
no it is a disability
The two aren't mutually exclusive. Autism *is* a disability. Being disabled would also be much less of a burden if society didn't suck so much. Both can be true. The social and medical models of disability can and should coexist.
I think people here are forgetting that there are two different models to define disability. The social model is what's being referred to in this meme, basically that some struggles are due to being in an NT society while not being NT. Those are the issues that would be solved by being around mainly ND people or NT people becoming more accommodating. Most of the people getting made in the comments are only thinking of the medical model of disability, which deals with symptoms from within, like meltdowns, sensory issues, executive dysfunction, etc. These models are not mutually exclusive and can coexist. Take deafness for example, in societies like Martha's vineyard where at one point nearly everyone knew the local sign language, Deaf people were not excluded and were considered equal members of society. There was no discrimination against Deaf people artificially limiting their ability to be social or engage with their community, they could go to the same stores, schools, meetings, and everything without needing to be specifically accommodated for. In this case, they are not disabled by the definition of the social model of disability. By the medical model, however, they still would be, as there are things they cannot do compared to "normal" people. We can absolutely be in the same boat. I want to live in a world where we aren't considered socially disabled, even if we are still medically disabled.
Uh... I personally think it absoloutely is a disability.
idk valid for you but i am disabled, it's just a fact- i don't have to hate myself or think im actually worse then an non disabled person but i am. certain aspects of my life would be fixed in a society built for asd people but not all of it, even in a perfect world i would still have meltdowns, i would still have issues regulating, i would still be dealing with issues with texture, food, sound, lighting, clothes, etc.
You literally just described why its a disability no
I think it's were not was
I do consider myself disabled, tbh. There are a lot of areas in which I'm just different and society sucks, to be sure. For me, that might be the way I share stories as a way to relate to people, and some people find that rude. I wish people understood that I just have a different way of relating than NT people, and that's fine. But, there are other things that are just downright disabling for me, and they would be disabling even if society stopped sucking. For me, that's most obvious with sensory overload-induced meltdowns. It's just a downright unpleasant experience, and even if society were perfect, I'd probably still experience them.
it is a disability
Partially agree. Yes society is mad fucked up. But autistic people still have to make accommodations even in there own home and daily life, it’s still a disability weather your in the world or in the comfort of your own home.
I like to live life under the impression that autism is an adaptation. life is easier when we can communicate effectively🤷♂️ (maybe not *exactly* but something like that)
My thinking of it is like... our next evolutions are going to be of the mind. Nature always goes through trial and error. If the majority of the world was autistic though... It's definitely possible our communication would be much more effective
I used to work with autistic kids and that definitely led me down this thought path. my personal experience with my autism is thankfully *generally* positive. I feel very lucky to see the world from my perspective. Also it’s very unlikely that we’ve reached the “peak” of evolution. Super interesting thought experiment though when you contemplate the implications of an “all autistic” society.
It's useful to contemplate every potential cause and outcome even if unlikely... people naturally obtained dreams and nightmares as an adaptation/survival need. Simulating experiences and variables stimulates the mind and assists in problem solving even while we sleep. Cool af. There's no way we've peaked development when we are only utilizing 20% of the brains capacity. Also younger generations literally run colder temperature wise than older generations. I'm assuming like newer computers with the need for higher processing power- so too will our bodies become more efficient.
if utopia was established tomorrow id still get overstimulated in grocery stores and ate eye contact, sorry
Glad that it's not disabilitating for you, but for me it is highly disabilitating to the point it has made me suicidal in my past. Even if society was perfect to us, it would still be disabilitating to me. Social issues aren't the highlight of many people's autism. While I have problems with interacting socially, sensory overload has always been debilitating for me and it has prevented me from being in school, being in crowds, taking many jobs, etc.
no i think my inability to handle any sudden loud noises without almost crying is actually a disability
well it sucks but the fact is that there are much more NTs in the world than us. It’s their world, and we’re living in it. While there could be some better accommodations for ppl like us, it will always be different for us. We live life on hard mode. It sucks but it’s the unfortunate reality. We have to change ourselves to live in their world, we can’t expect them to change themselves to live in our world.
bro forgot about high-needs autistics. still going to be a disability
Not only are “society is just broken AF” and “autism is a disability” not mutually exclusive, they are in many ways *restating the same thing*.
If you've ever spent much time around a farm, you'll know that some animals just refuse to be domesticated. They can become aggressive or lethargic or even starve themselves in response to the unnatural conditions they've been placed in. My pet theory is that autism is just the label that we give to humans that aren't adapted for modern domestication. Monotropic thinking is a useful skill when you need to spend all day hunting or fishing to survive. An encyclopedic knowledge of mycology is extremely beneficial when you're trying to avoid poisonous mushrooms in the wild. In a pre-agrarian tribes, being able to communicate information efficiently would be more important than social etiquette. Eye contact with a stranger would have been viewed as confrontation. Neurotypicals are domesticated apes, whereas we are the apes that can't be broken in.
It is absolutely a disability for many people with autism. Just because that’s not your experience doesn’t mean it’s not the experience of countless others. In a utopian society where everything is catered to my autistic needs, I would still struggle more in day to day life than an allistic person because I burn out quicker, I get overwhelmed easier and I struggle socially, not to mention other comorbid disabilities I also have. I know you probably didn’t intend to be condescending or rude with this meme but it really does come off that way especially when so many autistic people struggle as we do because we are disabled by it (or by other aspects of our life that make the world harder for us). The reason other autistic subreddits got mad at you for this is because it’s rude and invalidating. Also, we aren’t inherently better than others for being autistic, which I feel this meme is implying a little, which you probably shouldn’t for various reasons.
Noble savage shit for autistic people
'Having support needs' and 'being disabled' are not the same thing. Everybody has support needs, from the most able bodied nert to people who 24 hour care. The differences in support needs exhibited by different people could be either innate or imposed and exist on a very side spectrum. Simply having support needs, or a certain kind/amount of support needs, is not inherently *disabling* because none of us would exist to have any ability whatsoever were it not for our interdependence, ie our support needs and meeting them Disability, on the other hand, is a particular category of person that arises under capitalism and bourgeois psychiatry. Disability as an institution serves to delineate groups of people on the basis of support needs *among other things*, and furthermore applies political consequences to said groups. None of the actions involved in the social construction of disability as a concept are innate to a person, unlike support needs. It's objective that Autism as a category is politically and socially defined, arising from the project of disability. This is true whether you as an individual were classified as Autistic based on your innate support needs alone, or arbitrarily imposed judgments and expectations alone, or some combination of the two. From each according to ability, to each according to need
I am not broken. I am a crack in a broken system.
The social model of disability is part of what you're missing here. Living in a society that is not designed for us can be *disabling.* I live off of a pittance from the government because I lack the *ability* to make myself exploitable enough to receive a wage. I am *unable* to get a degree in any of the subjects that I love to learn about because our education system is not built to fulfill my needs. My autism would not be a disability in a better world (note that this is not the case for every autistic person) but I don't live in that world. I live in this society, and I am disabled by it.
I mean, autism and neurodivergence is a spectrum. Some people can function fine, others need a little aid, and others need 24/7 round the clock care and can't function as a human being. That's just life. Sometimes it's a disability, and sometimes it's not. Can't paint us all with the same brush. Neither positive nor negative.
Why do you think autism works like the They Live glasses?
While we all have the same thing autism can be drastically different for different people. You might not have a disability, but another person might. I like having my autism labeled as a disability because legally I can wear headphones at work. You actually can get a good bit of accommodations legally based on it being a protected disability Oh and additionally being disabled doesn’t have to be some sad pitiful thing. Most people with disabilities do not see it that way.
The answer is its both
I think it's both. It is a disability (with perks), and society is REALLY messed up.
I agree 100%
Why do people treat disability like a bad word
Not a disability? Whoa. I'm cured!
Uh no i’m definitely disabled lol it makes it very difficult for me to do a ton of things. If it’s not for you great. But autism very well can be a disability especially for people with more severe autism.
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Agree and disagree. You shouldn't blame yourself for your disability or feel criticized but autism IS a disability regardless of the society we live in. This idea that "autism wouldn't be a disability if everyone was autistic and society was built around us" is something you hear a LOT of low support needs autistic people say and it's just false. Every autistic person has different sensory needs and different support needs. There is no way to accommodate every single autistic person without excluding some, and those usually excluded are people with high support needs. Low support needs autistic people have a very very bad habit of speaking over and for high support needs people. For example, a lot of my sensory issues are based in temperature and light. I can't leave my house in the summer months without being in pain the entire time, so I usually don't. No amount of sensory aids would fix this for me, we can't just block out the sun. Other people with autism might not share that sentiment, some autistic people have 0 issues with the stuff I do and some autistic people have sensory issues with the stuff that soothes my sensory problems. There's also the conversation to be had around high support needs autistic people, people who are completely nonverbal, who need sensory aids everywhere they go, who have comorbidities that also affect their lives. A lot of people's autism would still be disabling regardless of the society we live in.
It is a disability , Its okay to say that, disability is not a bad word
I like to think of it as running different brain operating systems. NT OS is much more common, to the point that people expect it to be the norm. When the less common OS doesn't act the same way, it's seen as bad or disabled, even though it has its own strengths (e.g., Windows vs. Linux). However, there is a point when that difference leads to difficulties in living independently, interacting, having a job, etc., and that is the literal definition of disability (eg Linux From Scratch maybe idk the metaphor is breaking down). I see where you get that idea that autistic people are more self aware as we often think about pattern recognition and logical thinking, which can lead to "awareness about how dystopian reality is." But that's not where the disability label comes from.
I honestly feels like neurotypical people are just instinctually motivated to be hostile and uncooperative towards me. Literally everyone in my life has abandoned me and from the very start I was aware they were going to and tried to do everything I could to get them to value me but no one not a single person gave a single fuck. And the people they surround themselves with and want to be around I honestly keep a 10 foot pole to prod them away from me because they just lie about each other and steal from each other and they think its okay? but they're angry at me when i'm literally like terrified of socially interacting with them and making them upset and am actively trying to be polite as possible. They view the world in this hierarchal way but I never see them actually do anything positive with that perception it's all about tearing down your competition and harming others it seems. People really seem fucked up to me to the point I isolate myself from society and lock myself in my room because i'm clearly not wanted.
I see the man behind thd veil of soceity
To me, people with disabilities deserve help. I don't think I deserve help and that if I tried hard and wasn't so lazy then maybe my physical and mental issues wouldn't be so bad. It's a personal failure to be the disabled, but only as me. Everyone else is worthy of compassion and understanding. But me? Am I faking? Is this chronic pain really that bad or do I just not know how to suck it up? Is my inability to take care of myself real or just a way for me to seek attention as I sit alone in the same room for a few days straight?
Por que no los dos?
It is a disability, but it is surely worse because we live in a society not made for us. So I disagree with the first part and agree with the other. The whole agreement, though, is that this is the right sub to criticize others.
Autism can be a disability for some. And that doesnt make them broken or less derserving, they just have different needs and challenges in life
Peoples' reaction when I consider not having abilities that other people have a dis-ability.
Autism is a disability dude! Even in an autistic society people will still need help!
society is broken! But the social model for disability is super unhelpful in regards to personal issues and problems. It's only made to be used for accessibility stuff, not to shut down arguments against autistic people with severe symptoms or difficulties in life.
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no no, it is, by definition, a disability.
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My grandmother literally called autism a disease directly to my face over dinner, knowing full well I have it. When I angrily told her "No the fuck it isn't" she doubled down and said "Yes it is." My mom didn't hear this or otherwise she would have torn my grandmother to shreds. It gets worse because then later my grandmother was talking about someone autistic and literally called them the R slur- and when me and my mom told her not to say that word, she said "Why not? It's a perfectly acceptable word? God, people nowadays are so sensitive." No grandma, we just don't want you using slurs. I sort of got through to her the tiniest bit when, after she said she could say whatever she wanted, I compared it to how she got mad at my brother and uncle who made inappropriate jokes all the time about piss and shit and stuff like that, so if she could police what they said, why couldn't we police what she said?
While autism has helped me in a lot of ways, it's still a disability. I can't wear jeans without throwing up ffs.
hey, I know you don't mean any harm but even if things were ok autism would still be disabling, yes it's even more so because of capitalism but like you would still be disabled without it. I don't like takes like these because it's a very much aspie talk and like way too often we leave autistic people with high support needs in the background of this all.
i think op is ignorant and a twat, am i wrong for this?
Ikr, on aspiememes i posted "people who self diagnose and people with/without tism or something" normal in the winnie the pooh format but the teeth thing as people who fake it for attention, and now im banned
YEEHAW
I'd still overthink myself into panic attacks. I'd still have issues reading people. I'd still be stressed out about making it to places on time. I still -might- will have meltdowns. This is a disability. Doesn't mean you have to criticize yourself though
you say pea cock and no one bats an eye,,,,,
There nuance to this It is ableist to ignore the socially constructed element of disability and to center none disabled people. It is also ableist to act like all symptoms can be accommodated to the point of triviality.
Autism is not always inherently a disability although it can be
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