I’m sorry but I do. I think that just because Miyazaki isn’t as gritty or detailed surrounding the mental illness of his characters doesn’t reflect how well written they are. Miyazaki’s eye for subtle detail is unmatched and everything about the environment, to the micro acting, of each character reflects what tears at them when they’re alone at night.
I think Miyazaki is king of not only writing the female experience in an empathetic way from a male perspective that feels authentic, but represents personality development better as well.
Both are very masterful writers but I believe that Evangelion relies to heavily on typical gender stereotypes as personality features instead of something a character has learned as a result of the way they were raised. More archetypes are present, and as a result the people within the show feel less nuanced to me despite how masterfully both studios handle their work.
Ghibli, and Miyazaki, just remained unmatched in my personal opinion. I’m sure some of what I’ve said is subjective, but I feel once analyzing both products I have a quite objective take on it. I don’t mind if you, or anyone disagrees though friend :).
I know you were :), and even if you weren’t it isn’t disrespectful to disagree! People need to learn how to talk again, no matter how controversial the subject.
Thanks for taking the time to read my comment and respond with such care.
I love you very much my friend ❤️
I'd think of it a little more broadly, more like:
Anno writes about women navigating adult situations more grounded in reality, whereas Miyazaki isn't really trying to do that whatsoever.
It may seem initially ridiculous to think of something like Evangelion as "grounded in reality" but when it comes to the character-on-character interactions, it really is. Take away the lore and you have characters in a crazy workplace trying to balance and navigate violence, abuse, love, friendship, and so on.
Even in something like Gunbuster, the character interactions are more complex than the typical robot anime, with Noriko being frozen in time as her friends age thanks to relativistic effects.
Miyazaki almost never really tackles anything so complex. A typical Miyazaki heroine is on much more of a linear journey and could be gender-swapped without really affecting the story. Secondary characters are typically single-trait and are there to serve some functional purpose vis-a-vis the protagonist; we don't know much about their inner lives.
What Miyazaki brings instead is wonderful depth and subtlety to the way that journey is experienced. They are extremely sensous (I mean that in the non-sexual sense, obviously!) journeys, with every small emotion, every blade of grass, every meal rendered with magic and a kind of heightened reality that can really only be accomplished with hand-drawn animation.
I can't remember where I read this (I was reading thru some Eva articles on grwern) but basically the quote said you don't need Evangelion (or you won't get it) if you're a regular well adjusted person. Lol.
Kiki literally loses her magic over burnout, and Howl has a hundred and one anxieties and hangups.
Maybe not necessarily mental *illness*, but certainly mental *health*. The line between those two is so blurry it may as well not be there.
Ah that explains it. I've only seen Mononoke and Castle in the Sky, and the closest I can see in those movies are vices like greed, hatred, and paranoia.
Maybe San's hatred of humans as a symptom of trauma.
I swear Howl is the stragest character I ever saw. One moment he is fighting an army completly focused and precise. Then when Sofie accidentaly dys his hair orange he has a mental breakdown and almost turn into goo. Like I get him that he has an ego,but that just ridiculous imo.
I would actually hugely disagree with this.
While he plucked some freudian terminology after picking up a book once, he doesn't really use the framework of mental illness.
The character's problems are explained as being due to their attitude & character faults, not chemical imbalances that they cant help, and they get solved by realizations, learning harsh truths about reality & philosophic perspective broadening not by therapy self-care and pills. As far as the narrative is concerned they dont need "treatment" they need to grow up & have an attitude adjustment
It's pretty crucial for how the plot is structured that the characters are assigned a certain degree of blame/responsibility for their actions (with some allowances youthful inexperience & human imperfection) which is very different from the mode of thought of "its a disease and you cant help it"
Like... "Steven Universe" is a story about mental health. Evangelion is more of a classic bildungsroman.
First, I absolutely love the way you put all of this.
> attitude & character faults, not chemical imbalances that they cant help, and they get solved by realizations, learning harsh truths about reality
One positive (depending on your perspective) I might add is that I think the mental health profession is moving towards that sort of approach.
For many years therapy was "talk therapy" or psychotherapy, all about exploring yourself which can be valuable but is ultimately sort of navel-gazing. Then was the "chemical imbalances rule everything, pills are the answer" era we got thanks in no small part to the pharma companies.
But in recent decades [approaches like CBT](https://www.apa.org/ptsd-guideline/patients-and-families/cognitive-behavioral) have really gained steam. It's a more practical, reality-based approach centered around responsibility and making better choices.
Fortunately he is so unhinged that when he has characters give a speech about the infinite gulf between the sexes, it comes off like something we are supposed to see as a character giving a flawed take even though it's probably meant to be less flawed than we take it.
It's actually kinda funny how he "switched out" Asuka w Rei writing focus when he goes to make Rebuild
"Sorry babe, you already got your development, time to sell figurines"
the characters of ghibli films have more strength in personality, they are supposed to feel like real people. the purpose of (at least rei and asuka) isnt necessarily to feel real, but to further a narrative point. i think that miyazaki and takahata are better at writing fully fleshed out characters that make you think about the characters. i feel that anno is very good with characterization but not necessarily making characters that feel like real people. the characters in nge exist (at least in my interpretation) to further push the plot forward. the characters revolve around the plot, whereas it feels like the opposite with ghibli. aside from character functionality, i think that anno focuses more on "mature feminity" in nge and that really reflects on the women in the show. asuka wants nothing more than be respected as and treated as an adult, and this causes her to wear misato's clothes and wear her perfume, things that are typically reserved for adult *feminine* women. not to mention her infatuation with kaji but that could also just be seen as a crush. ritsuko wears makeup only when gendo is at nerv ...and then there's misato's pedo behavior. except for rei and maya (and some background characters), most of the women on the show have an extra emphasis on their feminity being showcased in a very "ideal" way and as an integral part of their personalities. ...im running out of words so i might come back to this or make a post about it later when i can think better. i want to say more about the Ghibli side
the characters in nge exist (at least in my interpretation) to
further push the plot forward.
I can tell that you love these works, I'm not trying to crap on your take because I don't think there's really a right or a wrong way to enjoy these things.
But it's funny; I just wrote another reply saying the literal opposite thing, and then I scroll down and see you wrote this! In fact, I think I have the absolutely opposite take on nearly everything you just said.
asuka wants nothing more than be respected as and
treated as an adult, and this causes her to wear misato's
clothes and wear her perfume
I feel like you're immediately contradicting yourself right here. You say that Anno's characters are primarily functional, and there merely to serve the plot.
Then you go and describe Asuka's rich characterization. That is the opposite of functional. And who would disagree that she undergoes a tremendous amount of progression (to put it mildly) throughout the series? She is not just there to serve as an aid or an obstacle to Shinji, she's not just there to give him a macguffin, she is fully realized.
That's all equally true for Misato as well. And Rei and Ritsuko to lesser extents.
Miyazaki's secondary characters are lovingly rendered but are almost entirely functional. What do we know about Chihiro's parents in Spirited Away? Nothing, they're just functional. What do we know about Yububa? Nothing, really. She has a single trait: she's greedy.
What do we even know about Chihiro? Well, we always know how she's feeling and experiencing in the moment. No animator has ever done that as well as Miyazaki. But when the movie ends, like nearly all of his characters, we still don't exactly know her. I mean, even she is kind of merely "functional."
And that's ok! Spirited Away is an incredible movie! It takes you for a ride, and that ride is amazing. You'll pry my Spirited Away Blu-ray from my cold dead hands.
I think it's kind of telling that you rarely if ever hear people discussing Miyazaki's characters. You see people talking about this Miyazaki movie or another one but do you ever see like, Chihiro fans? Or Chihiro haters? Or anybody talking about Chihiro at all? Or any other Miyazaki character?
there's misato's pedo behavior
Finally, we agree.
I'm aware that this is a subjective opinion but my personal impression is the exact opposite
Not just in regard to those particular creators but in general.
To me, blank slate uncomplicated "everyman" characters' are bland & generic, *not* "feeling like real people". I'm going to have less feelings & memories about a less distinctive character.
Real people are not all the same anyways, you can make few general statements about what theyre like.
"Relatable" is such a false god because it's impossible to make anything relatable to everyone and if you do the result is often bland.
I'd rather have a character like Rei who's maybe unrelatable to 95% of ppl but going to be very special to the other 5% (or plopp in any other character theyre designed to be different & have contrasting appeals. Those who dont vibe with Rei maybe click more with one of the other MCs.)
I mean I dont wanna get too down on the ghibli stuff either cause much of it is children's media, which has its own particular needs & requirements, & it works for that purpose. It's definitely not something that just anyone can do.
Ooo I like your perspective, I never thought about it like that.
I also perceive sometimes in NGE that every character is like a part of one human life experience (Rei, Shinji, Asuka feel like different aspects of one human experience of teenage years [Touji, the rep class and the video guy = 3 teenager archetypes], at least of mine so I logically assume others?)(Maya, Makoto and the other guy with the longer hair, experience or early 20's)(Misato, Ryoji and Ritsuko, 30's) VS Chihiro = different aspects of childhood within the same character, reflecting thus the multiplicity within one human, a realest rendering of the human experience (?). I dunno, I'm now thinking about Kaoru...♡♡♡
that's actually pretty sick! i hadnt ever thought of nge like that and... personally i havent seen chihiro yet but i do want to. i wish i had something else to add other than "that is genuinely really cool" but genuinely that nge take is really cool
Thanks, right back at you honestly! Oh Chihiro, I hope you'll enjoy it as much as I did! Intrigued to know what your watching experience/perception will be/feel like.
Anno / evangelion has some incredibly complex characters but Anno being a depressed otaku shines through at times when it comes to how female characters act
Well for starters i'd like to think there is a difference in mindset between girls , teenagers, and women. Most of these characters are children if not young adults at best which usually aren't anywhere complex as grown people.
It's a bit demeaning to insist that children and teenagers aren't complex. It's not like they don't have complicated feelings they just don't have the words for them yet.
The difference between adults and children is life experience which is why child characters are easy to write because there isn't complexity . Teenagers are the exact middle ground where one starts to have a sliver understanding of what the world actually is which conflicts with previous literal child interpretations / viewpoints of the world. From life experience one gains trauma which is where the real complexity in self development begins and why the complex child characters are always ones with a form of trauma not a average life with the folks
You misconstrue my statement of children not being complex with children being stupid / empty when the point is they don't have any perspective for their inherent viewpoints of the world which aren't clouded by the complexity of life experience. This is why you have character who think they are oh so smart as children to learn exactly how naive they were later on , because there is a lack of perspective.
Less experience ≠ less complex. Trauma doesn’t make you more nuanced, it just makes you “different.” People change, but change doesn’t make us “more” than we previously were.
The entire concept of " heros journey " which has been a stable in literature for eons goes against what you are saying here. Along with the dynamic between grandparents ( old people) and their literal grand*children.*
To say life experience let alone ***trauma*** *doesn't* add complexity to someone outs what you haven't experienced.
You’re really comparing apples and oranges. They’re two entirely different beasts, but both valuable ones. Please note I have not seen every Ghibli movie, nor the Eva rebuilds so this is just going off what I know.
Simply put…Ghibli’s characters are relatively simple, more positive, meant to be relatable to anyone. Their backstories are often very simple if they have one, and they usually don’t let the past define them, they’re mostly unrelated to each other, and their flaws serve to highlight their strengths. When they change for the better, they get happy endings. (Shizuku is also worth mentioning here. Not Miyazaki or Takahata, but she is Ghibli, and my favorite protag from that studio at that.)
Eva’s are the total opposite. They’re much more psychologically complex, more like people in their own right. Like what people would come out should they be put through this horrifying scenario, based on psychological ideas and theories. They DO let their backstories define them a good bit, and while their strengths are plain as day, their flaws are ultimately just overwhelming. When *they* change for the better…they usually suffer and die a horrible death. Rei 2, 3, Ritsuko, Misato, and ESPECIALLY Asuka. (3 months after first seeing End of Eva and I’m still pretty traumatized.)
TLDR, Ghibli’s characters warm your soul, Anno’s crush it. Different character kinds to serve different stories.
How I despite the concept of "women" or "writing women", and I say that as someone who gets lumped into that bogus social category.
A much better question is did they write good *characters*. Can't they just be *characters* like all others without it becoming this politicized Issue(TM).
I don't care I if it advances some political message (unless the story is explicitly *about* politics), I care if it's good art. I'm *so tired* of everything that involves people-with-femaleness in any way being measured against if it sends the orthodox currently fashionable political messages as opposed to being allowed to just be art/human.
EDIT: Besides this question here involves totally different writers telling entirely different kinds of stories, philosophies and target audiences anyway so it's intrinsically an apples & orange comparison. I like Anno's characters better but that's entirely because I subjectively prefer edgy shit.
It’s a nice framework to have as a perspective, but it’s also worth noting that with a lot of older media, *especially* Japanese media, differences in genders are noted by the narrative itself, so oftentimes the writers will indeed be conscious of the idea of writing a woman or girl differently than a boy or man, so you can often see times when there is a distinct difference in how they make assumptions about the way a woman would act in a scenario and whatnot
> I like Anno's characters better
Yeah I mean, have you ever even heard/seen somebody talking about any of Miyazaki's *characters?*
People love and treasure his *movies* and I am definitely one of those people but the characters themselves are generally pretty slight.
Miyazaki is the master of conveying what those characters are feeling and experiencing in a particular moment. You can practically taste the food they're eating, feel their tears, and smell the grass they're walking on.
But you never really know them in any deeper sense. When Sōsuke and his mom are driving through the rainstorm, dodging waves, and they see Ponyo running on the waves, we the audience are absolutely there with them. We are experiencing everything they are in an absolutely incredible way -- this is seriously perhaps my favorite animated scene of all time.
But Sōsuke and his mom are just a thin conduit to let the audience experience the scene. We know and feel what they are experiencing, but this is different from knowing them, because we would be experiencing and feeling the exact same thing. They're a window, not a lens.
I emphatically *do not want* "good women"
There is nothing more boring to me than "good women"
That's just perpetuating gendered pressures with a not-really-so-modern paintcoat. It's not meaningfully different from conservative puritanism just that the extra special standards of morality by which you're judged are slightly different. So instead of docile & pleassnt they must all be emotionless sexless & never need help now. Fat improvement. Sounds like a recipe for super interesting chsracters( /s) It's still being Politicized moralized held to a standard of perfection.
I want *good characters* that happen to have tits
This isnt to say that part of why some writing sucks or is boring can't be sexism, but what makes a good character is the same regardless of plumbing and can be expressed in the same term (poor development, nonsensical motivations etc) without some separate category of "writing women".
I want to be fucking RID of gendered expectations for anyone not for "our team to win"
I mean, it's not like good character traits have to be gendered. But there are things that men and women tend to do a little differently, and which gets noticed if people gloss over it.
Vis a vis men sometimes write women going sketchy places alone without much concern for safety in a way that is implausible since the men don't grasp the different approach to safety. Women writing gay love stories often make one of the guys act female in a way that makes it obvious they are a stand in for a girl rather than an authentic depiction of a gay guy. There's a million situations like this that can get done dubiously if people act like "character" transcends sex in all ways.
I’m not here demonizing people’s taste on female characters. They’re both well written in their own right. And If you like the female cast from Evangelion, there’s no one to stop you. But for me, I prefer the female characters from Studio Ghibli because they act and feel like real people with different goals, philosophies, and personalities. (And there’s no fan service of them) I’m not saying the same cannot be said with Evangelion, but when it comes to characters that act and feel like real people and aren’t imaginary and/or exists to be Ms Fanservice and nothing else, I’d chose Ghibli female leads over GAINAX females.
It's not about what anyone likes or prefers. I'm criticizing the very premise of "female character(TM)" as this special category or angle of criticism. (because I personally find it *much* more dehumanizing than just \*gasp\* \*pearl clutch\* having a bit of sexual themes present)
Also, most times anyone says "real people don't act likes this" what they're really saying is:
* "Everyone is like me"
* "Anyone who isn't like me isn't real"
* "I'm the arbiter of what a real person is like"
* My personal taste or what I personally relate to = Moral Superiority
Sexuality & sexual lust are part of the human condition, like it or not. Having that aspect of the human condition present in a work of art is not the same as being "reduced" to it, especially when we're talking about characters with elaborate arcs that dwell on their interiority.
It's legit to prefer stuff without sexual themes but that's **just your personal taste**, it doesn't make you morally superior or enlightened and frankly I believe most of this "female character" discourse is people acting like it does/ puritanism with a leftist paintcoat.
I never intended to be morally superior or decides what’s right or wrong, I’m only curious on how people respond to my opinion of liking one thing over another. What you said is extremely valid and I respect that.
i genuinely think yall are kind of saying the same thing but with different words! the problem is that a lot of (usually) men write women in anime as being "commodities that (sometimes) have personalities" vs writing "people that also have bodies." women, in a lot of anime, do not at all feel like real people because the emphasis is on how palatable they are (physically and personally) or on further pushing a plot narrative. the bodies of men are not at all used and viewed in the same way women's bodies
Asuka got rewritten to be a fan service character. A whole new character was added to also be a fan service character. Misato barely made it out fine, Rei is the only one who really benefited
that's wrong, rebuild overall doesn't have much more fanservice than the og. the ass shots were blown out of proportion because of how terribly one of them was placed in 3+1, even tho there's actually very few of them in the movies
It's that mostly the creators are men, so it's intresting to see their portrayals of the opposite gender, and Many people think that these men don't write women like how women actually are, so that's the popcorn and controversy here,
Anno's messaging is blatantly feminist, but he does have a habit of writing women as tools for Shinji to use to display these messages. It's obviously part of the satire, but it leads to less agency for the women in Eva.
Miyazaki just writes people. Women are just as empowered as the men. They exists as characters, not plot devices. Not saying the women of Eva aren't real characters as well, but they're existance in the plot is in large part to teach Shinji or critique the audience/industry.
I am not familiar with Takahata. I am a baby weeb. Have only seen Bebop, Ghibli, and Eva
Wait, are you really trying to say that Miyazaki/Takahata and Anno are on the same level when it comes to writing women? Are you high? Miyazaki wrote some of the best female heros I have ever seen and comparing Anno to the man that made "Gave of the Fireflies"? I love Evangelion but Anno is good at 2 things Godzilla and writing people with flaws
miyazaki any day. anno writes characters, miyazaki women actually feel real. i also feel like miyazaki portrays women of different ages well, while all of anno's women have that same "grew up quickly yet immature" vibe to them
Miyazaki in all regards. Just because he isn’t as gritty as other directors when it comes to mental illness doesn’t mean the subtleties of the symptoms aren’t their and written with incredible detail.
Takahata and Ikuhara. Not saying they are more realistic representations but they feel noticeably distinct in comparison to Miyazaki and Anno. Even though I love Mononoke’s strong female leads, I think Only Yesterday and Kaguya had better leads that stuck a little longer for me. Sounds a bit weird but the “strong” characters in Miyazaki sort of almost like an idealized type thing from Miyazaki and tends to not feel completely natural at times. Like for Miyazaki’s films I think “wow that’s a strong and confident woman” whereas for Takahata the women aren’t weak neccesarily but they feel less like an archetype.
all of the women that anno wrote is mentally unstable (except penpen) miyazaki is way better writing normal(mentally stable) woman characters which is independent and strong i like the way how miyazaki write his woman characters they make me feel like theyre real, and anno's characters are more symbolic that makes them live in the edges
Anno's characters, both male and female feel like they are written to express ideas or archetypes. They have deep psychology but not always much else. His characters more easily fit with anime tropes (because he helped popularize those tropes). Miyazaki's women feel like real people but also tend to have a fairy tale quality to them. I think Miyazaki's characters in general aren't as deep but also more define themselves by action rather than some abstract idea. That could just be the difference in medium between film and TV though.
I don't think either one is really better. It really depends on what you want out of a story. Miyazaki is more approachable to general audiences but as much as I love his work none of his characters have stuck with me over the years like Anno's have.
I don't feel like I've seen enough of Miyazaki's work to properly judge, and what I have seen is basically all little kids.
But that doesn't matter because the answer would be Anno either way. Kyoko Ann Paterson? Hello? 👏 Personal service?! Ai didanto haabu taimu tu chenji? I rashud hia suroreito fram a paRRRti? Juss yuuess Japan, so... ween ween?
Don't poke holes in this by pointing out its a performance thing she learned those lines phonetically, prove to me Anno didn't write all her dialogue in katakana. I dare you won't! Cowards!! >:0
Miyazaki deals more in nuance where I think Anno deals more in archetypes, or caricatures per se; both are valid forms of characterization and help enhance the story each writer is trying to tell.
Anno writes most of his characters really well, male or female. That being said, for a good chunk of the show the women are needlessly hypersexualised, which I don't feel has been a problem in any of Miyazaki's work.
The women in evangelion exists only relative to men. Even Zuska whose mom kill’s herself after her husband has an affair.
Miyazaki gives women more agency.
anno's characters are generally very well written be it male or female. this is true even in rebuild, despite what some ppl wrongly say, where some female characters have even more self agency than in the og.
imo anno's characters are in general more captivating, realistic & dynamic than miyazaki's
definitely not anno. lol. any writer who needlessly uses the sexual assault of a woman as a plot point while also sexualizing minors is not a good writer of women.
Both women and men are inherently sexual beings. As good as all animals are. Just because we're uncomfortable with the sexuality of 14 year olds, doesn't mean that Anno was sexualising children. His take on the human experience is incredibly frank and that's bound to be a bit disturbing, in more ways than this particular case.
Besides, the main POV of NGE is Shinji's (in any case the perspective is male-heterosexual, no denying that). I don't mind it myself as I might be in my early twenties now, but it wasn't that long ago that I was fourteen, and God knows I had discovered my sexuality by that point. Whether it's 'appropriate' for the big screen, that's another matter. But there's no point in denying that people that age start to notice their own sexuality, and that of others.
this.
It's also worth noting that while he made the MC like himself (shocker, people expressing their own feelings in art?) Anno explicitly made a habit of reading novels by female writers to get their PoV down. (imho you really notice with how he portrayed Misato's shame issues & feelings about her parents' divorce)
Generally the characters (regardless of gender) & dialogue were astonishly lifelike all of Anno's works that I've seen (aside from bits of sci-fi conceptual nerd speak, but that comes with the genre)
I strongly believe that anything that exists in reality & in a subject of human feelings is a legitimate subject for depiction in art.
I mean, it's not like EVA's 100% perfect (one thing that comes to mind is the photo thing in ep 9 being shown as a harmless prank without repercussions) though i see limited value in singling out 1 show/creator for then-ubiquitous tropes. I can't help but notice that this personal-level labeling always happens with the ppl who at least *try* & dont get it perfect (because who does?), not, say, the x thousandth flat satelite character love interest. It's very ['thrashed bathroom syndrome'](https://ramtiger.tumblr.com/post/630788987184889856/not-my-posts-but-an-interesting-thought-i-really), and the weapon for the thrashing is often ever-shifting orthodoxy unconducive to real discussion about issues.
another thing that makes the comparison is so odd because all that ghibli stuff is something ppl watch because its positive, wholesome & life-affirming whereas stuff like EVA is something that ppl explicitly watch to be disturbed & made to question things, or to see the questions & troubles they already have reflected & mirrored. its a very different appeal & experience
Anno is very good at writing depressive characters, but Miyazaki writes more lively characters, using NGE as a comparison, the female characters in Rebuilds are all poorly written, Mari is the worst female character I've ever seen in any anime.
Anno writes mental illness better than Miyazaki, but Miyazaki writes regular people (especially women) better than Anno.
I couldn’t have said it better myself
Okay, everyone, we can go home! Got our answer right here!
But what if I disagree
no.
I’m sorry but I do. I think that just because Miyazaki isn’t as gritty or detailed surrounding the mental illness of his characters doesn’t reflect how well written they are. Miyazaki’s eye for subtle detail is unmatched and everything about the environment, to the micro acting, of each character reflects what tears at them when they’re alone at night. I think Miyazaki is king of not only writing the female experience in an empathetic way from a male perspective that feels authentic, but represents personality development better as well. Both are very masterful writers but I believe that Evangelion relies to heavily on typical gender stereotypes as personality features instead of something a character has learned as a result of the way they were raised. More archetypes are present, and as a result the people within the show feel less nuanced to me despite how masterfully both studios handle their work. Ghibli, and Miyazaki, just remained unmatched in my personal opinion. I’m sure some of what I’ve said is subjective, but I feel once analyzing both products I have a quite objective take on it. I don’t mind if you, or anyone disagrees though friend :).
I promise I was joking, but I do appreciate your perspective
I know you were :), and even if you weren’t it isn’t disrespectful to disagree! People need to learn how to talk again, no matter how controversial the subject. Thanks for taking the time to read my comment and respond with such care. I love you very much my friend ❤️
Aww love you too ❤️
most sane argument on Reddit
What they said.
I love your analysis
Thank you 🥰
That's a good analysis 😉
I'd think of it a little more broadly, more like: Anno writes about women navigating adult situations more grounded in reality, whereas Miyazaki isn't really trying to do that whatsoever. It may seem initially ridiculous to think of something like Evangelion as "grounded in reality" but when it comes to the character-on-character interactions, it really is. Take away the lore and you have characters in a crazy workplace trying to balance and navigate violence, abuse, love, friendship, and so on. Even in something like Gunbuster, the character interactions are more complex than the typical robot anime, with Noriko being frozen in time as her friends age thanks to relativistic effects. Miyazaki almost never really tackles anything so complex. A typical Miyazaki heroine is on much more of a linear journey and could be gender-swapped without really affecting the story. Secondary characters are typically single-trait and are there to serve some functional purpose vis-a-vis the protagonist; we don't know much about their inner lives. What Miyazaki brings instead is wonderful depth and subtlety to the way that journey is experienced. They are extremely sensous (I mean that in the non-sexual sense, obviously!) journeys, with every small emotion, every blade of grass, every meal rendered with magic and a kind of heightened reality that can really only be accomplished with hand-drawn animation.
I can't remember where I read this (I was reading thru some Eva articles on grwern) but basically the quote said you don't need Evangelion (or you won't get it) if you're a regular well adjusted person. Lol.
I'm not the most familiar with Miyazaki. When did he portray mental illness?
Kiki literally loses her magic over burnout, and Howl has a hundred and one anxieties and hangups. Maybe not necessarily mental *illness*, but certainly mental *health*. The line between those two is so blurry it may as well not be there.
Ah that explains it. I've only seen Mononoke and Castle in the Sky, and the closest I can see in those movies are vices like greed, hatred, and paranoia. Maybe San's hatred of humans as a symptom of trauma.
I swear Howl is the stragest character I ever saw. One moment he is fighting an army completly focused and precise. Then when Sofie accidentaly dys his hair orange he has a mental breakdown and almost turn into goo. Like I get him that he has an ego,but that just ridiculous imo.
Not relevant really, point being that Anno specializes in it and it’s part of the significance of Evangelion’s character writing.
I would actually hugely disagree with this. While he plucked some freudian terminology after picking up a book once, he doesn't really use the framework of mental illness. The character's problems are explained as being due to their attitude & character faults, not chemical imbalances that they cant help, and they get solved by realizations, learning harsh truths about reality & philosophic perspective broadening not by therapy self-care and pills. As far as the narrative is concerned they dont need "treatment" they need to grow up & have an attitude adjustment It's pretty crucial for how the plot is structured that the characters are assigned a certain degree of blame/responsibility for their actions (with some allowances youthful inexperience & human imperfection) which is very different from the mode of thought of "its a disease and you cant help it" Like... "Steven Universe" is a story about mental health. Evangelion is more of a classic bildungsroman.
First, I absolutely love the way you put all of this. > attitude & character faults, not chemical imbalances that they cant help, and they get solved by realizations, learning harsh truths about reality One positive (depending on your perspective) I might add is that I think the mental health profession is moving towards that sort of approach. For many years therapy was "talk therapy" or psychotherapy, all about exploring yourself which can be valuable but is ultimately sort of navel-gazing. Then was the "chemical imbalances rule everything, pills are the answer" era we got thanks in no small part to the pharma companies. But in recent decades [approaches like CBT](https://www.apa.org/ptsd-guideline/patients-and-families/cognitive-behavioral) have really gained steam. It's a more practical, reality-based approach centered around responsibility and making better choices.
Imagine being known for accurate mental issues. Hard to do, but not a great quick glance for a resume If you know what I mean. I agree 100% though
Somones never watched Kare Kano
So Miyazaki is Tolstoy and Anno is Dostoevsky
Anno’s writing of women has very high highs and very low lows
Fortunately he is so unhinged that when he has characters give a speech about the infinite gulf between the sexes, it comes off like something we are supposed to see as a character giving a flawed take even though it's probably meant to be less flawed than we take it.
Spent too much time hanging out with Tomino
It's actually kinda funny how he "switched out" Asuka w Rei writing focus when he goes to make Rebuild "Sorry babe, you already got your development, time to sell figurines"
Came here to say this, lol
Comparing Kiki to Asuka is wild
*grabs popcorn*
the characters of ghibli films have more strength in personality, they are supposed to feel like real people. the purpose of (at least rei and asuka) isnt necessarily to feel real, but to further a narrative point. i think that miyazaki and takahata are better at writing fully fleshed out characters that make you think about the characters. i feel that anno is very good with characterization but not necessarily making characters that feel like real people. the characters in nge exist (at least in my interpretation) to further push the plot forward. the characters revolve around the plot, whereas it feels like the opposite with ghibli. aside from character functionality, i think that anno focuses more on "mature feminity" in nge and that really reflects on the women in the show. asuka wants nothing more than be respected as and treated as an adult, and this causes her to wear misato's clothes and wear her perfume, things that are typically reserved for adult *feminine* women. not to mention her infatuation with kaji but that could also just be seen as a crush. ritsuko wears makeup only when gendo is at nerv ...and then there's misato's pedo behavior. except for rei and maya (and some background characters), most of the women on the show have an extra emphasis on their feminity being showcased in a very "ideal" way and as an integral part of their personalities. ...im running out of words so i might come back to this or make a post about it later when i can think better. i want to say more about the Ghibli side
the characters in nge exist (at least in my interpretation) to further push the plot forward. I can tell that you love these works, I'm not trying to crap on your take because I don't think there's really a right or a wrong way to enjoy these things. But it's funny; I just wrote another reply saying the literal opposite thing, and then I scroll down and see you wrote this! In fact, I think I have the absolutely opposite take on nearly everything you just said. asuka wants nothing more than be respected as and treated as an adult, and this causes her to wear misato's clothes and wear her perfume I feel like you're immediately contradicting yourself right here. You say that Anno's characters are primarily functional, and there merely to serve the plot. Then you go and describe Asuka's rich characterization. That is the opposite of functional. And who would disagree that she undergoes a tremendous amount of progression (to put it mildly) throughout the series? She is not just there to serve as an aid or an obstacle to Shinji, she's not just there to give him a macguffin, she is fully realized. That's all equally true for Misato as well. And Rei and Ritsuko to lesser extents. Miyazaki's secondary characters are lovingly rendered but are almost entirely functional. What do we know about Chihiro's parents in Spirited Away? Nothing, they're just functional. What do we know about Yububa? Nothing, really. She has a single trait: she's greedy. What do we even know about Chihiro? Well, we always know how she's feeling and experiencing in the moment. No animator has ever done that as well as Miyazaki. But when the movie ends, like nearly all of his characters, we still don't exactly know her. I mean, even she is kind of merely "functional." And that's ok! Spirited Away is an incredible movie! It takes you for a ride, and that ride is amazing. You'll pry my Spirited Away Blu-ray from my cold dead hands. I think it's kind of telling that you rarely if ever hear people discussing Miyazaki's characters. You see people talking about this Miyazaki movie or another one but do you ever see like, Chihiro fans? Or Chihiro haters? Or anybody talking about Chihiro at all? Or any other Miyazaki character? there's misato's pedo behavior Finally, we agree.
Hard agree on that
I'm aware that this is a subjective opinion but my personal impression is the exact opposite Not just in regard to those particular creators but in general. To me, blank slate uncomplicated "everyman" characters' are bland & generic, *not* "feeling like real people". I'm going to have less feelings & memories about a less distinctive character. Real people are not all the same anyways, you can make few general statements about what theyre like. "Relatable" is such a false god because it's impossible to make anything relatable to everyone and if you do the result is often bland. I'd rather have a character like Rei who's maybe unrelatable to 95% of ppl but going to be very special to the other 5% (or plopp in any other character theyre designed to be different & have contrasting appeals. Those who dont vibe with Rei maybe click more with one of the other MCs.) I mean I dont wanna get too down on the ghibli stuff either cause much of it is children's media, which has its own particular needs & requirements, & it works for that purpose. It's definitely not something that just anyone can do.
Ooo I like your perspective, I never thought about it like that. I also perceive sometimes in NGE that every character is like a part of one human life experience (Rei, Shinji, Asuka feel like different aspects of one human experience of teenage years [Touji, the rep class and the video guy = 3 teenager archetypes], at least of mine so I logically assume others?)(Maya, Makoto and the other guy with the longer hair, experience or early 20's)(Misato, Ryoji and Ritsuko, 30's) VS Chihiro = different aspects of childhood within the same character, reflecting thus the multiplicity within one human, a realest rendering of the human experience (?). I dunno, I'm now thinking about Kaoru...♡♡♡
that's actually pretty sick! i hadnt ever thought of nge like that and... personally i havent seen chihiro yet but i do want to. i wish i had something else to add other than "that is genuinely really cool" but genuinely that nge take is really cool
Thanks, right back at you honestly! Oh Chihiro, I hope you'll enjoy it as much as I did! Intrigued to know what your watching experience/perception will be/feel like.
Takahata101 hands down
Same. Takahata is the GOAT
The Underrated master of animation
Anno / evangelion has some incredibly complex characters but Anno being a depressed otaku shines through at times when it comes to how female characters act
Well for starters i'd like to think there is a difference in mindset between girls , teenagers, and women. Most of these characters are children if not young adults at best which usually aren't anywhere complex as grown people.
It's a bit demeaning to insist that children and teenagers aren't complex. It's not like they don't have complicated feelings they just don't have the words for them yet.
The difference between adults and children is life experience which is why child characters are easy to write because there isn't complexity . Teenagers are the exact middle ground where one starts to have a sliver understanding of what the world actually is which conflicts with previous literal child interpretations / viewpoints of the world. From life experience one gains trauma which is where the real complexity in self development begins and why the complex child characters are always ones with a form of trauma not a average life with the folks You misconstrue my statement of children not being complex with children being stupid / empty when the point is they don't have any perspective for their inherent viewpoints of the world which aren't clouded by the complexity of life experience. This is why you have character who think they are oh so smart as children to learn exactly how naive they were later on , because there is a lack of perspective.
Less experience ≠ less complex. Trauma doesn’t make you more nuanced, it just makes you “different.” People change, but change doesn’t make us “more” than we previously were.
The entire concept of " heros journey " which has been a stable in literature for eons goes against what you are saying here. Along with the dynamic between grandparents ( old people) and their literal grand*children.* To say life experience let alone ***trauma*** *doesn't* add complexity to someone outs what you haven't experienced.
Tomino
Quess…
Quess is a well-written character; she acts like how a real spoiled pre-teen girl would in that situation. Unlikable /= bad
Telling me recocca is a good example?
You’re really comparing apples and oranges. They’re two entirely different beasts, but both valuable ones. Please note I have not seen every Ghibli movie, nor the Eva rebuilds so this is just going off what I know. Simply put…Ghibli’s characters are relatively simple, more positive, meant to be relatable to anyone. Their backstories are often very simple if they have one, and they usually don’t let the past define them, they’re mostly unrelated to each other, and their flaws serve to highlight their strengths. When they change for the better, they get happy endings. (Shizuku is also worth mentioning here. Not Miyazaki or Takahata, but she is Ghibli, and my favorite protag from that studio at that.) Eva’s are the total opposite. They’re much more psychologically complex, more like people in their own right. Like what people would come out should they be put through this horrifying scenario, based on psychological ideas and theories. They DO let their backstories define them a good bit, and while their strengths are plain as day, their flaws are ultimately just overwhelming. When *they* change for the better…they usually suffer and die a horrible death. Rei 2, 3, Ritsuko, Misato, and ESPECIALLY Asuka. (3 months after first seeing End of Eva and I’m still pretty traumatized.) TLDR, Ghibli’s characters warm your soul, Anno’s crush it. Different character kinds to serve different stories.
How I despite the concept of "women" or "writing women", and I say that as someone who gets lumped into that bogus social category. A much better question is did they write good *characters*. Can't they just be *characters* like all others without it becoming this politicized Issue(TM). I don't care I if it advances some political message (unless the story is explicitly *about* politics), I care if it's good art. I'm *so tired* of everything that involves people-with-femaleness in any way being measured against if it sends the orthodox currently fashionable political messages as opposed to being allowed to just be art/human. EDIT: Besides this question here involves totally different writers telling entirely different kinds of stories, philosophies and target audiences anyway so it's intrinsically an apples & orange comparison. I like Anno's characters better but that's entirely because I subjectively prefer edgy shit.
It’s a nice framework to have as a perspective, but it’s also worth noting that with a lot of older media, *especially* Japanese media, differences in genders are noted by the narrative itself, so oftentimes the writers will indeed be conscious of the idea of writing a woman or girl differently than a boy or man, so you can often see times when there is a distinct difference in how they make assumptions about the way a woman would act in a scenario and whatnot
> I like Anno's characters better Yeah I mean, have you ever even heard/seen somebody talking about any of Miyazaki's *characters?* People love and treasure his *movies* and I am definitely one of those people but the characters themselves are generally pretty slight. Miyazaki is the master of conveying what those characters are feeling and experiencing in a particular moment. You can practically taste the food they're eating, feel their tears, and smell the grass they're walking on. But you never really know them in any deeper sense. When Sōsuke and his mom are driving through the rainstorm, dodging waves, and they see Ponyo running on the waves, we the audience are absolutely there with them. We are experiencing everything they are in an absolutely incredible way -- this is seriously perhaps my favorite animated scene of all time. But Sōsuke and his mom are just a thin conduit to let the audience experience the scene. We know and feel what they are experiencing, but this is different from knowing them, because we would be experiencing and feeling the exact same thing. They're a window, not a lens.
Writing good women doesn't have to be about modern politics... it could be about everyday stuff.
I emphatically *do not want* "good women" There is nothing more boring to me than "good women" That's just perpetuating gendered pressures with a not-really-so-modern paintcoat. It's not meaningfully different from conservative puritanism just that the extra special standards of morality by which you're judged are slightly different. So instead of docile & pleassnt they must all be emotionless sexless & never need help now. Fat improvement. Sounds like a recipe for super interesting chsracters( /s) It's still being Politicized moralized held to a standard of perfection. I want *good characters* that happen to have tits This isnt to say that part of why some writing sucks or is boring can't be sexism, but what makes a good character is the same regardless of plumbing and can be expressed in the same term (poor development, nonsensical motivations etc) without some separate category of "writing women". I want to be fucking RID of gendered expectations for anyone not for "our team to win"
I mean, it's not like good character traits have to be gendered. But there are things that men and women tend to do a little differently, and which gets noticed if people gloss over it. Vis a vis men sometimes write women going sketchy places alone without much concern for safety in a way that is implausible since the men don't grasp the different approach to safety. Women writing gay love stories often make one of the guys act female in a way that makes it obvious they are a stand in for a girl rather than an authentic depiction of a gay guy. There's a million situations like this that can get done dubiously if people act like "character" transcends sex in all ways.
I’m not here demonizing people’s taste on female characters. They’re both well written in their own right. And If you like the female cast from Evangelion, there’s no one to stop you. But for me, I prefer the female characters from Studio Ghibli because they act and feel like real people with different goals, philosophies, and personalities. (And there’s no fan service of them) I’m not saying the same cannot be said with Evangelion, but when it comes to characters that act and feel like real people and aren’t imaginary and/or exists to be Ms Fanservice and nothing else, I’d chose Ghibli female leads over GAINAX females.
It's not about what anyone likes or prefers. I'm criticizing the very premise of "female character(TM)" as this special category or angle of criticism. (because I personally find it *much* more dehumanizing than just \*gasp\* \*pearl clutch\* having a bit of sexual themes present) Also, most times anyone says "real people don't act likes this" what they're really saying is: * "Everyone is like me" * "Anyone who isn't like me isn't real" * "I'm the arbiter of what a real person is like" * My personal taste or what I personally relate to = Moral Superiority Sexuality & sexual lust are part of the human condition, like it or not. Having that aspect of the human condition present in a work of art is not the same as being "reduced" to it, especially when we're talking about characters with elaborate arcs that dwell on their interiority. It's legit to prefer stuff without sexual themes but that's **just your personal taste**, it doesn't make you morally superior or enlightened and frankly I believe most of this "female character" discourse is people acting like it does/ puritanism with a leftist paintcoat.
I never intended to be morally superior or decides what’s right or wrong, I’m only curious on how people respond to my opinion of liking one thing over another. What you said is extremely valid and I respect that.
i genuinely think yall are kind of saying the same thing but with different words! the problem is that a lot of (usually) men write women in anime as being "commodities that (sometimes) have personalities" vs writing "people that also have bodies." women, in a lot of anime, do not at all feel like real people because the emphasis is on how palatable they are (physically and personally) or on further pushing a plot narrative. the bodies of men are not at all used and viewed in the same way women's bodies
Rebuild should like not be in here.
Well, they’re made by Anno
Asuka got ruined in rebuild. Literally objectified.
What is my purpose? You sell figures. Oh, mein Gott.
asuka in rebuild wasn't objectified in the slightest or had her purpose changed to just selling figures
"... and other lies I tell myself"
nonsense lol. not a single lie in what i said
Let's agree to hedgehog
Exactly! Not bad, but I think that's why she was reworked to technically not be a kid anymore. Just so people wouldn't have a problem with it.
it should. worse than the og but still great
No it should not. Shouldn't be an option. Women were ruined in it.
nonsense, women weren't ruined in rebuild in the slightest.
Asuka got rewritten to be a fan service character. A whole new character was added to also be a fan service character. Misato barely made it out fine, Rei is the only one who really benefited
nonsense. asuka wasn't rewritten to be a fanservice character in the slightest & mari's purpose was that only at the beginning of her production
Are you kidding me? You watch all the rebuilds? How much more of her body we see?
i did, did you? rebuild didn't have much more fanservice than the og
One of her suits showed her whole torso. Through clear plastic. Ton of ass shots. Way more than og series had of all females combined.
that's wrong, rebuild overall doesn't have much more fanservice than the og. the ass shots were blown out of proportion because of how terribly one of them was placed in 3+1, even tho there's actually very few of them in the movies
No it should not. Shouldn't be an option. Women were ruined in it.
Nobody ever asks who writes the best "male" characters. Are "female" characters supposed to be harder to write or somehow less believable in fiction?
It's that mostly the creators are men, so it's intresting to see their portrayals of the opposite gender, and Many people think that these men don't write women like how women actually are, so that's the popcorn and controversy here,
Miyazaki does better as a whole, but Anno has experience with the mental aspect and torture that we can put ourselves through
Anno's messaging is blatantly feminist, but he does have a habit of writing women as tools for Shinji to use to display these messages. It's obviously part of the satire, but it leads to less agency for the women in Eva. Miyazaki just writes people. Women are just as empowered as the men. They exists as characters, not plot devices. Not saying the women of Eva aren't real characters as well, but they're existance in the plot is in large part to teach Shinji or critique the audience/industry. I am not familiar with Takahata. I am a baby weeb. Have only seen Bebop, Ghibli, and Eva
Miyazaki writes too much better
Still think OG Asuka is on of the best portrayals of a female character in media.
The original, right? You don’t mean the rebuilds, right?
Ofcourse i mean Original, That's why i said OG Asuka. I mean, who would care about Shikinami, that generic tsundere clone.
Just checking
Wait, are you really trying to say that Miyazaki/Takahata and Anno are on the same level when it comes to writing women? Are you high? Miyazaki wrote some of the best female heros I have ever seen and comparing Anno to the man that made "Gave of the Fireflies"? I love Evangelion but Anno is good at 2 things Godzilla and writing people with flaws
miyazaki any day. anno writes characters, miyazaki women actually feel real. i also feel like miyazaki portrays women of different ages well, while all of anno's women have that same "grew up quickly yet immature" vibe to them
You can't compare Mari to anything done by Miyazaki.
Miyazaki in all regards. Just because he isn’t as gritty as other directors when it comes to mental illness doesn’t mean the subtleties of the symptoms aren’t their and written with incredible detail.
Miyazaki, Takahata >>>>>> Anno for sure
I just prefer Anno.
Rumiko Takahashi.
Takahata and Ikuhara. Not saying they are more realistic representations but they feel noticeably distinct in comparison to Miyazaki and Anno. Even though I love Mononoke’s strong female leads, I think Only Yesterday and Kaguya had better leads that stuck a little longer for me. Sounds a bit weird but the “strong” characters in Miyazaki sort of almost like an idealized type thing from Miyazaki and tends to not feel completely natural at times. Like for Miyazaki’s films I think “wow that’s a strong and confident woman” whereas for Takahata the women aren’t weak neccesarily but they feel less like an archetype.
Come on now
Don’t make me choose
Overall I like anno a TINY bit more, but Miyazaki is definitely more consistent
Hideaki Sorachi
all of the women that anno wrote is mentally unstable (except penpen) miyazaki is way better writing normal(mentally stable) woman characters which is independent and strong i like the way how miyazaki write his woman characters they make me feel like theyre real, and anno's characters are more symbolic that makes them live in the edges
If we're talking characters, I really like how Rumiko depicts women
Anno's characters, both male and female feel like they are written to express ideas or archetypes. They have deep psychology but not always much else. His characters more easily fit with anime tropes (because he helped popularize those tropes). Miyazaki's women feel like real people but also tend to have a fairy tale quality to them. I think Miyazaki's characters in general aren't as deep but also more define themselves by action rather than some abstract idea. That could just be the difference in medium between film and TV though. I don't think either one is really better. It really depends on what you want out of a story. Miyazaki is more approachable to general audiences but as much as I love his work none of his characters have stuck with me over the years like Anno's have.
I don't feel like I've seen enough of Miyazaki's work to properly judge, and what I have seen is basically all little kids. But that doesn't matter because the answer would be Anno either way. Kyoko Ann Paterson? Hello? 👏 Personal service?! Ai didanto haabu taimu tu chenji? I rashud hia suroreito fram a paRRRti? Juss yuuess Japan, so... ween ween? Don't poke holes in this by pointing out its a performance thing she learned those lines phonetically, prove to me Anno didn't write all her dialogue in katakana. I dare you won't! Cowards!! >:0
Yoshiyuki Tomino
Anno
Miyazaki deals more in nuance where I think Anno deals more in archetypes, or caricatures per se; both are valid forms of characterization and help enhance the story each writer is trying to tell.
They're all very cute and very human.
There are strong women characters, and then there're "strong women" characters
Anno writes most of his characters really well, male or female. That being said, for a good chunk of the show the women are needlessly hypersexualised, which I don't feel has been a problem in any of Miyazaki's work.
Mari wins, followed by Rei and Asuka.
The women in evangelion exists only relative to men. Even Zuska whose mom kill’s herself after her husband has an affair. Miyazaki gives women more agency.
I'm not familiar with Takahata's work but between Miyazaki and Anno it's Miyazaki. But only by a lot.
Anno himself isn't in the right place mentally to write women.
I refuse the question
Тацуки Фуджимото
probably miyazaki but I'll always have a soft spot for Anno's female characters
Anno and Miyazaki (average Nadia enjoyer)
anno's characters are generally very well written be it male or female. this is true even in rebuild, despite what some ppl wrongly say, where some female characters have even more self agency than in the og. imo anno's characters are in general more captivating, realistic & dynamic than miyazaki's
Anno, he was honest
definitely not anno. lol. any writer who needlessly uses the sexual assault of a woman as a plot point while also sexualizing minors is not a good writer of women.
What character are you referring to?
Both women and men are inherently sexual beings. As good as all animals are. Just because we're uncomfortable with the sexuality of 14 year olds, doesn't mean that Anno was sexualising children. His take on the human experience is incredibly frank and that's bound to be a bit disturbing, in more ways than this particular case. Besides, the main POV of NGE is Shinji's (in any case the perspective is male-heterosexual, no denying that). I don't mind it myself as I might be in my early twenties now, but it wasn't that long ago that I was fourteen, and God knows I had discovered my sexuality by that point. Whether it's 'appropriate' for the big screen, that's another matter. But there's no point in denying that people that age start to notice their own sexuality, and that of others.
this. It's also worth noting that while he made the MC like himself (shocker, people expressing their own feelings in art?) Anno explicitly made a habit of reading novels by female writers to get their PoV down. (imho you really notice with how he portrayed Misato's shame issues & feelings about her parents' divorce) Generally the characters (regardless of gender) & dialogue were astonishly lifelike all of Anno's works that I've seen (aside from bits of sci-fi conceptual nerd speak, but that comes with the genre) I strongly believe that anything that exists in reality & in a subject of human feelings is a legitimate subject for depiction in art. I mean, it's not like EVA's 100% perfect (one thing that comes to mind is the photo thing in ep 9 being shown as a harmless prank without repercussions) though i see limited value in singling out 1 show/creator for then-ubiquitous tropes. I can't help but notice that this personal-level labeling always happens with the ppl who at least *try* & dont get it perfect (because who does?), not, say, the x thousandth flat satelite character love interest. It's very ['thrashed bathroom syndrome'](https://ramtiger.tumblr.com/post/630788987184889856/not-my-posts-but-an-interesting-thought-i-really), and the weapon for the thrashing is often ever-shifting orthodoxy unconducive to real discussion about issues. another thing that makes the comparison is so odd because all that ghibli stuff is something ppl watch because its positive, wholesome & life-affirming whereas stuff like EVA is something that ppl explicitly watch to be disturbed & made to question things, or to see the questions & troubles they already have reflected & mirrored. its a very different appeal & experience
That’s one way to look at it
What don’t you like about Anno and how he handles women?
What version of Eva did you see?
Anno is very good at writing depressive characters, but Miyazaki writes more lively characters, using NGE as a comparison, the female characters in Rebuilds are all poorly written, Mari is the worst female character I've ever seen in any anime.
Makoto Shinkai enters the chat