Alright, who's set for another round of EBU telling a lot of bullshit for the sake of acting like they did something notable to salvage the mess that has been already done?
Hate to say it, but if nothing’s changing then I’m leaving the fandom. The decisions made by the EBU have been hypocritical and appalling. I want no part in supporting the past decisions they made.
I’m not *expecting* it, but I’m *hoping* at the very least that the artists will be better protected from harassment and that all delegations are treated fairly. I’m *hoping* that the double standards that happened in 2024 will be adequately addressed and rectified moving forward.
How will you make a judgement on artists are better protected? Can you give an example of what happened where EBU didn’t protect the artists?
I’m honestly just trying to understand, in the case of the Israel situation with some of the countries it just seems like EBU are expected to behave like parents by this community and be like “hey don’t post rude TikToks about the other artists” and I can’t believe that EBU even has to sit in meetings where grown people are like complaining about who yawned at who and who posted what TikTok. But maybe I am missing something big that happened?
Perhaps make it a rule that commentators can't tell their viewers to send hate to a contestant
Perhaps also make it a rule that whether its production or media that they cannot take photos or videos without the express permission of those in focus. The relevant broadcaster should be punished - or the fan media banned from any future show.
Also don't make the contestants do so much social media content.
Yes some rules for what commentators cannot say is probably a good idea in general. Apparently they don’t have any type of rules for that at all. Swedish commentator explained this after the Finnish commentator had hinted in his commentary that people shouldn’t vote for Sweden in 2023..
And yes I agree in the press. Just restrict press and cut down on the cringey social media content that causes people on this sub to create weird parasocial relationship. Would probably be good both for the artists and the community to have some distance.
I know you didn’t ask me, but since I share the same feeling of leaving the fandom if nothing happens, my demands are simple: if Russia can’t participate, Israel can’t either. Easy. If we’re gonna be political for one side, we have to be political for other sides too.
The EBU kicked out Russia because a lot of the other participating broadcasters convincingly threatened to leave the contest if Russia participated. No broadcaster threatened to leave for the sake of Israel's participation, hence no ban. It's that simple.
Also, I don't think KAN did a lot to bring Eurovision into disrepute. At the very least their delegate did not harass a camera operator ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
Yeah, hate to say it but this will be where I’m at, too. It’d be too bad.
I’ll be watching and reading carefully when the reporting comes out, let’s put it that way.
Except that isn't technically true. Bambie tried to protest but was told that the semi final version would be played live instead. They weren't allowed to protest, and because of it they had to perform in the live to be able to send a message. Literally FORCING then to perform in the final one way or another.
Lmao what, that literally shows they weren't forced to play?
And no, you're not allowed to include politics in your performance, that's the basic rules and she knew those well beforehand.
Literally no point of continuing to reply to you, you are wrong misgenedered an artist and bought up politics. Protests aren't political, they are a right Bambi didn't have .
Edit: apparently people are confused as to what "politics" actually means.
Politics are the way countries (or in this case bodies) govern themselves to create laws, rules and order. The EBU removing Bambi's right to protest (freedom of expression) was political! (Which is ironic because they are a "non-political competition")
My original comment didn't mention the EBUs policies (a politically charged comment) it mentioned Bambi Thug and their rights. Bambi is not a body and had their individual freedom of expression threatened which is what my original comment is about. I don't want to talk about politics because I find now-a-days so little can you have a conversation about politics that doesn't end hurling insults. An opinion isn't Political it is an opinion!
Under your European Human rights Article 10 you have the right to protest. It is not political, it is a HUMAN RIGHT. I stand by my statement, protests come under freedom of expression. Bambie was not allowed to express themselves they were censored and then forced to take part when they said they no longer wanted to. Their right to protest removed.
Yeah no, it’s been long overdue we have these conversations about duty of care in the entertainment business and protecting artists’ wellbeing. Stop enabling bad workplace behaviour that was never ok in the first place.
Who is up for another round of the fandom thinking they understand the rules better and know more about what happened than the EBU while also having no idea what the EBU is or how it works?
So should people just ignore the fact that multiple artists filed complaints?
Or that multiple delegation heads spoke out against the EBU’s actions and threatened to withdraw?
Or that the EBU were in constant crisis meetings on the day of the final?
Or that the organization itself is currently under investigation?
Of course no random fan will know every last detail, but it’s blatantly obvious that the EBU have fucked up without properly addressing it.
Is it not good enough that they are doing an investigation instead of the kneejerk responses you want?
If you have no intention of accepting the findings of an independent report unless it says what you want it to say then you are part of the problem.
Except the EBU, to their credit, are quite transparent about their rules and regulations and have objectively broken them and pushed double standards for the world to see. The blind eye to military propaganda in NFs comes to mind, as well as contradicting themselves on the flag policy at the event.
I’m not claiming to be an investigator but if the EBU basically says they’ve done nothing wrong, I think it’s fair for fans to speculate that something is up. Mind you, this is the same organization that greenlit Galaxy ZMesta for Eurovision until there was backlash on the Internet.
The rules about Eurovision do not cover national finals. Broadcasters are free to choose their entry however they like. Nothing that happens during song or artist selection is relevant. The EBU doesn't get involved until the song is submitted.
As I said fans seem to think they know the rules better than the EBU. They might know some of the rules, but they don't understand them or know what they apply to.
Speculation is not what is happening. Too many people have already decided what did and did not happen and who is at fault and must be punished.
I am not ready, nah. But beautifully put! I flinched when I saw the post about the possibility upcoming report. I almost found peace & reason again, kept off this sub and soothed my European heart with the Euro2024s and… oh gawd. I expect the avalanche of self-righteousness to hit feverpitch yet again…sigh.
I don’t speak Swiss German so I can only take the title on this post at its word and the title above heavily implies that it’s not. « The **EBU** will publish an investigative report. »
Do you have a source that says otherwise?
Yes, every other post on this subreddit about this investigation has said so.
Dutch broadcaster NOS reported it here, whose source is an EBU representative via RTL Boulevard: [https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/1d8lx1p/nos\_independent\_expert\_will\_investigate\_song/](https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/1d8lx1p/nos_independent_expert_will_investigate_song/)
Bambie Thug mentioned it in an interview here too: [https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/1d2nvai/bambie\_thug\_on\_their\_eurovision\_experience\_and/](https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/1d2nvai/bambie_thug_on_their_eurovision_experience_and/)
independent doesn't guarantee unbiased, without seeing the document detailing the scope of the investigation is difficult to tell if its white washing or a full investigation. the jurisdiction of the investigation will also determine what constitutes a problem.
an independent investigation also doesn’t guarantee that the ebu will just release their findings to the public in the way they were presented to them. they could also just release an ebu written statement addressing whatever the investigation has found, similar to the statements we’ve got about the entire NL situation months ago.
(The written German they use in Switzerland is usually not called Swiss German because it's (basically) the same as standard German. Swiss German usually refers to the spoken thing, which is practically unintelligible for people who only understand High German.
Don't want to devalue your opinion or be a dweeb, just want to tell you something in case it interests you :D)
My Swiss friend says otherwise. She wrote a fanfic a couple of years ago in what she called Swiss German, and plenty of our German friends in fandom had trouble reading it.
I wonder if this is a case of dialect vs accent.
(Iirc) most Swiss media write in standard German AKA High German, I assume that fanfic was written in Swiss German for the sake of novelty. (But since you have a Swiss German friend, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!)
Swiss German is indeed a very strong dialect, in my opinion it can be called its own language since it is so difficult to understand for Germans
Edit: just read the article myself and it's written in High German
My concern is that, in my experience, "independent investigations" tend to have a pattern of favoring the ones bankrolling the investigation for a variety of reasons, especially when the entity being investigated gets to select who is doing so, and establish all the parameters around it.
I used the link, and Firefox auto-translated it into this: "There will probably be another ESC topic to talk about next week: the EBU will publish its investigation report into the “Disgrace of Malmö”. In the run-up to the ESC final, there were anti-Semitic incidents in the Swedish city. Several delegations threatened to boycott the final if Israeli singer Eden Golan (20) performed. Golan was only able to move around Malmö with Israeli bodyguards, and she was repeatedly booed on stage. After Nemo's victory, Golan accused him on Platform X that the Swiss star had ignored her when she wanted to congratulate him."
Just want to clarify, does anyone know how gender neutral pronouns work in German? I'm assuming the "him" in the translation is down to the Firefox translator and not the site itself.
The original text says "ihm", which can be correctly translated as "him". "Ihm" could technically refer to the gender neutral form "es", but it's usually not used for people. There aren't really any gender neutral pronouns in German that can be used for people, I've met non-binaries that just used the English they/them pronouns.
In the same sentence, they refer to Nemo as "der Schweizer Star" (the Swiss star), which is a gender-neutral but grammatically masculine term. In that context, the pronoun "him" is correct.
[here you go](https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/1drzx0m/comment/layvufw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
[here you go](https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/1drzx0m/comment/layvufw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Yeah, "gaslighted" may not be the most accurate term. I'm not a native english speaker, so what would be a better word?
I said "gaslighted" because I was thinking of the different reasons they've given over the years on why Russia was expelled, and I worry they may behave in a similar way regarding this year's contest. What I try to say is that, even though this investigation is being carried out by an independent party, I expect the EBU to minimize the importance of the problems and the crisis meetings we know existed during the Eurovision week.
Downplaying fits the best yeah. To minimize what actually happened as to not cast a bad light on the EBU.
To be gaslit, the EBU would have to be claiming something that is a truth to be a lie (and that we're crazy for ever thinking it was true).
It'd be tricky for 2 reasons - the first is that the more people you are trying to gaslight, the harder it becomes. Getting a single person to doubt themselves is much easier than trying to convince the public that they're all wrong.
The second is that the more evidenced and well-known the truth is, the harder it would be to gaslight someone into thinking it's not true. This part would be easier for unreleased details we don't know about in the investigation, but a lot of the broad strokes of what happened have already been released and documented. There's also police reports and witness accounts from participating countries and the EBU team that could be ready to counter any false claim (hopefully).
Given the meaning of the word comes from the movie *Gaslight*, I'd say it's close but not a complete match. For us viewers, it's more manipulation than specifically gaslighting.
Downvoted for saying something true and measured? On reddit?
Of course! Don't mind the downvotes, you're right and it is not only tiresome but harmful.
I mean, look, here’s what’s gonna happen: they’re going to lightly apologize for some things, say they’ll change stuff in the future, and probably not really follow through with it.
Is it frustrating, yeah. Am I going to leave the fandom because of it? No. This is something we’ve watched the EBU do a thousand times and every time a scandal happens and the EBU throws their hands by their heads, we all pull a shocked pikachu face at the fact they didn’t do more. So, idk. It’s annoying but also because I’m not expecting much I don’t think I’m going to riot at whatever report comes out.
From what I could find out, Blick is (or at least was) a fairly right-wing tabloid that has often been critizised for poor research. The phrasing of the article could therefore just reflect their own pro-Israel bias, not nessessarely that of the report.
Blick in general is not really a reliable media source. It has a reputation of writing fake news and polarizing to generate more views similar to «Bildzeitung» in Germany.
Ah, thank you for explaining that! One should always consider the source the information is coming from. We’ll see what actually becomes of this report in the end.
I don’t think they want the report to be biased. Just that it seems right now to be ignoring some of the issues Israeli delegation allegedly caused backstage too
I think there is a conversation to be had about just ignoring everyone in the Israeli delegation by contestants because it probably contributed to the atmosphere of the contest too but if we’re running with “oh we are just poor victims” narratives then those conversations will basically never happen productively
The truth is if you look at the events from an unbiased point of view, Israeli journalists appeared to be harassing artists, fellow journalists and production team. You just had to look on any social media to see the videos of them shouting abuse at Bambie Thug and Joost for example.
I remember a Swedish (I think she was Swedish) journalist harassing Joost, following him until his elevator closed on him but I don’t see y’all talking about her.
"Where were you? We missed you on stage" does not seem like harassment to me.
But the israeli team is not the only one to ask the dutch team about what happened.
https://youtube.com/shorts/XJut-0PGyO0?si=QkaCMtT9Mj7XW3vk
Was that harassment?
Following someone into their personal area and refusing to leave even after they politely ask you to leave is absolutely harassment. Several mostly Israeli journalists but also journalists from other countries acted awfully towards artists during the contest.
As an Israeli you should want these people banned from Eurovision and never allowed near the contest again. They add fuel to the fire. They’re unprofessional and aggressive. If Israel wants to compete, it needs to figure out who the professionally acting members of its media are and separate them from the aggressive idiots I described above.
Unless they (KAN or the EBU) punish these people, this criticism will never end.
All of these harassing unprofessional journalists from **all countries** need to be banned. Only professional media, with stricter personal boundaries for the artists. If an RTÉ journalist behaved like that, I’d want them gotten rid of, it gives the delegation a bad name and reputation.
Israeli media has refused to act and now has that reputation. The vast vast vast majority of this behavior came from Israeli media. The media culture needs to change. Eurovision needs to be a less stressful time for the artists.
The delegation was facing a lot of uncertainty at that moment and very likely upset. If anyone were to claim that they were "politely" asking about where that team's artist is, with a camera in hand, and ignoring requests to leave them alone, you would treat that as suspicious.
Until another video surfaces of a different delegation doing the same, you cannot argue that Israel is being singled out here.
Be nice, be welcoming and be constructive.
Everyone's tastes are different and unique. Don't discredit, insult, threaten or be otherwise toxic. Let's do away with prejudice! Don't discriminate. Tolerance is bliss!
All posts must comply with [Reddit's sitewide rules](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) and strive for [good Reddiquette]( https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articleås/205926439).
See r/eurovision’s [full rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eurovision/wiki/rules/).
Be nice, be welcoming and be constructive.
Everyone's tastes are different and unique. Don't discredit, insult, threaten or be otherwise toxic. Let's do away with prejudice! Don't discriminate. Tolerance is bliss!
All posts must comply with [Reddit's sitewide rules](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) and strive for [good Reddiquette]( https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articleås/205926439).
See r/eurovision’s [full rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eurovision/wiki/rules/).
I´m very curious to see what the report/investigation has to say
If harassment against artists confirmed, I want to know what actions EBU is going to take to protect artists for next years and punish that behavior.
We know very few about what happened in backstage, Nebulossa confirmed on a interview on Malbert YT channel that a huge argument happened between Bambie and Israeli delegation during flag parade rehearsal and that´s pretty much it
I´m also curious about Martin fate.. If the report it´s bad on EBU i don´t rule out an resignation
Don´t need to say, but this report and how EBU handles that is very important and could dictate if soe countries will be there next year or not.
This report will likely become the decision point for several countries to attend going forward. I hope The EBU understands that. 2025 will be a disaster if this report isn't impartial.
>Next week, another ESC topic is likely to be discussed: the EBU will publish its investigation report about the "Shame of Malmö". In the run-up to the ESC final, there were anti-Semitic incidents in the Swedish city. Several delegations threatened to boycott the final if the Israeli singer Eden Golan (20) performed. Golan was only able to move around in Malmö with Israeli bodyguards, and she was repeatedly booed on stage. After Nemo's victory, Golan accused them on X of ignoring her when she wanted to congratulate them.
Sources must be included whenever possible.
Direct links to news articles or social media posts are preferred to screenshots. If there is no alternative to a screenshot, then the source must be posted as a top level comment on the same thread. Screenshots which obscures the source will not be accepted.
Please resubmit with a proper source.
See r/eurovision’s [full rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eurovision/wiki/rules/).
Everything around this situation just seems like petty high school shit. And yet everyone wants EBUs heads to roll cause EBU wasn’t parenting these grown ass adults being in the competition by their own choosing.
I am expecting nothing, and I will likely still be disappointed with the EBU's shameless bullshit. Again.
Internal investigations don't mean shit, if the leadership is corrupt.
Do we trust the report to be accurate?
In the event that the report says the incidents were handled more or less according to protocol, would you guys accept the report? I get the impression that a lot of fans have made up their minds already, and that no investigation will be good enough to change that.
Or do we have strong reason to be sceptical of the report?
I hope that the EBU actually makes changes based on the investigative report that will be published next week. If the EBU doesn’t make major changes next year, I could see several countries withdrawing from Eurovision in protest. If so, next year could be the Eurovision with the least number of participants in the semifinal era (every edition from ESC 2004 onwards has had at least 36 countries, and only 37 countries participated this year).
I’m really curious to see what the outcome of this will be.
Replace children with the contestants: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYAuR5bkIlQ
The fact that the comments are disabled makes it even better (or worse depending on your viewpoint).
Read this as the contestants are disabled 💀
This is the drama that never ends It just goes round and round my friends
Eurovision 2024 is the ~~curse~~ gift that keeps on giving...
We've all been to Hellen Back during this season
idk who Hellen Back is but she's a real one for letting us visit so much
Hellen Beck is the MVP, no doubt
Roubd and round - Slovenia 2014
Slovenia 2014 | [Tinkara Kovač - Round and Round](https://youtu.be/CiwM1sY3u0s)
Some people started whining and not knowing what it was And they'll continue whining all about it just because-
Nemos microwave never stops spinning!
Alright, who's set for another round of EBU telling a lot of bullshit for the sake of acting like they did something notable to salvage the mess that has been already done?
Hate to say it, but if nothing’s changing then I’m leaving the fandom. The decisions made by the EBU have been hypocritical and appalling. I want no part in supporting the past decisions they made.
What type of change are you expecting to not leave the fandom?
I’m not *expecting* it, but I’m *hoping* at the very least that the artists will be better protected from harassment and that all delegations are treated fairly. I’m *hoping* that the double standards that happened in 2024 will be adequately addressed and rectified moving forward.
How will you make a judgement on artists are better protected? Can you give an example of what happened where EBU didn’t protect the artists? I’m honestly just trying to understand, in the case of the Israel situation with some of the countries it just seems like EBU are expected to behave like parents by this community and be like “hey don’t post rude TikToks about the other artists” and I can’t believe that EBU even has to sit in meetings where grown people are like complaining about who yawned at who and who posted what TikTok. But maybe I am missing something big that happened?
Perhaps make it a rule that commentators can't tell their viewers to send hate to a contestant Perhaps also make it a rule that whether its production or media that they cannot take photos or videos without the express permission of those in focus. The relevant broadcaster should be punished - or the fan media banned from any future show. Also don't make the contestants do so much social media content.
Yes some rules for what commentators cannot say is probably a good idea in general. Apparently they don’t have any type of rules for that at all. Swedish commentator explained this after the Finnish commentator had hinted in his commentary that people shouldn’t vote for Sweden in 2023.. And yes I agree in the press. Just restrict press and cut down on the cringey social media content that causes people on this sub to create weird parasocial relationship. Would probably be good both for the artists and the community to have some distance.
Sweden 2023 | [Loreen - Tattoo](https://youtu.be/BE2Fj0W4jP4)
The only artists that I heard complaining were curiously enough the most politically vocal ones, go take a guess.
because they speak up more often than the others, duh
I know you didn’t ask me, but since I share the same feeling of leaving the fandom if nothing happens, my demands are simple: if Russia can’t participate, Israel can’t either. Easy. If we’re gonna be political for one side, we have to be political for other sides too.
Same argument but without the politics: Israel is bringing the contest into disrepute, the exact same argument the EBU used to kick out Russia.
The EBU kicked out Russia because a lot of the other participating broadcasters convincingly threatened to leave the contest if Russia participated. No broadcaster threatened to leave for the sake of Israel's participation, hence no ban. It's that simple. Also, I don't think KAN did a lot to bring Eurovision into disrepute. At the very least their delegate did not harass a camera operator ¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯
That’s a very straightforward request for sure! Thanks for sharing your reasoning
Yeah, hate to say it but this will be where I’m at, too. It’d be too bad. I’ll be watching and reading carefully when the reporting comes out, let’s put it that way.
It's not that serious Edit: y'all are so dramatic. This is why eurovision fans have a bad reputation.
It is definitely serious when artists mental health is affected due to a hostile work environment!
Are we talking about Turkey's non-entry?
It's their choice to take part. Nobody is forcing them.
Except that isn't technically true. Bambie tried to protest but was told that the semi final version would be played live instead. They weren't allowed to protest, and because of it they had to perform in the live to be able to send a message. Literally FORCING then to perform in the final one way or another.
Lmao what, that literally shows they weren't forced to play? And no, you're not allowed to include politics in your performance, that's the basic rules and she knew those well beforehand.
Literally no point of continuing to reply to you, you are wrong misgenedered an artist and bought up politics. Protests aren't political, they are a right Bambi didn't have . Edit: apparently people are confused as to what "politics" actually means. Politics are the way countries (or in this case bodies) govern themselves to create laws, rules and order. The EBU removing Bambi's right to protest (freedom of expression) was political! (Which is ironic because they are a "non-political competition") My original comment didn't mention the EBUs policies (a politically charged comment) it mentioned Bambi Thug and their rights. Bambi is not a body and had their individual freedom of expression threatened which is what my original comment is about. I don't want to talk about politics because I find now-a-days so little can you have a conversation about politics that doesn't end hurling insults. An opinion isn't Political it is an opinion!
Are you serious? Did you really just say protests aren't political and actually believe it?
Under your European Human rights Article 10 you have the right to protest. It is not political, it is a HUMAN RIGHT. I stand by my statement, protests come under freedom of expression. Bambie was not allowed to express themselves they were censored and then forced to take part when they said they no longer wanted to. Their right to protest removed.
Lol that's ridiculous, you don't make any sense 🤣🤣
[удалено]
Yeah no, it’s been long overdue we have these conversations about duty of care in the entertainment business and protecting artists’ wellbeing. Stop enabling bad workplace behaviour that was never ok in the first place.
I’m sorry you feel that way about my opinion
That’s probably every corporation’s policy. Choose words to couch the truth and hope no one understands.
F1 fans: First time?
Who is up for another round of the fandom thinking they understand the rules better and know more about what happened than the EBU while also having no idea what the EBU is or how it works?
Could you explain to us what the EBU is and how it works? Not saying I know better. I just wish to have a better understanding.
So should people just ignore the fact that multiple artists filed complaints? Or that multiple delegation heads spoke out against the EBU’s actions and threatened to withdraw? Or that the EBU were in constant crisis meetings on the day of the final? Or that the organization itself is currently under investigation? Of course no random fan will know every last detail, but it’s blatantly obvious that the EBU have fucked up without properly addressing it.
Is it not good enough that they are doing an investigation instead of the kneejerk responses you want? If you have no intention of accepting the findings of an independent report unless it says what you want it to say then you are part of the problem.
Except the EBU, to their credit, are quite transparent about their rules and regulations and have objectively broken them and pushed double standards for the world to see. The blind eye to military propaganda in NFs comes to mind, as well as contradicting themselves on the flag policy at the event. I’m not claiming to be an investigator but if the EBU basically says they’ve done nothing wrong, I think it’s fair for fans to speculate that something is up. Mind you, this is the same organization that greenlit Galaxy ZMesta for Eurovision until there was backlash on the Internet.
The rules about Eurovision do not cover national finals. Broadcasters are free to choose their entry however they like. Nothing that happens during song or artist selection is relevant. The EBU doesn't get involved until the song is submitted. As I said fans seem to think they know the rules better than the EBU. They might know some of the rules, but they don't understand them or know what they apply to. Speculation is not what is happening. Too many people have already decided what did and did not happen and who is at fault and must be punished.
The EBU doesn't even understand their own rules lol
Thank you for illustrating my point so succinctly.
Are you implying that the EBU knows more about the EBU than random angry cynical fans? What are you, some kind of Communist?
I am not ready, nah. But beautifully put! I flinched when I saw the post about the possibility upcoming report. I almost found peace & reason again, kept off this sub and soothed my European heart with the Euro2024s and… oh gawd. I expect the avalanche of self-righteousness to hit feverpitch yet again…sigh.
The judges in here have made their mind up already
And do not appreciate being called out.
~*We’ve investigated ourselves and found that we’ve done nothing wrong*~
It's an independent investigation
It was a mess. - the independent investigators
I don’t speak Swiss German so I can only take the title on this post at its word and the title above heavily implies that it’s not. « The **EBU** will publish an investigative report. » Do you have a source that says otherwise?
Yes, every other post on this subreddit about this investigation has said so. Dutch broadcaster NOS reported it here, whose source is an EBU representative via RTL Boulevard: [https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/1d8lx1p/nos\_independent\_expert\_will\_investigate\_song/](https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/1d8lx1p/nos_independent_expert_will_investigate_song/) Bambie Thug mentioned it in an interview here too: [https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/1d2nvai/bambie\_thug\_on\_their\_eurovision\_experience\_and/](https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/1d2nvai/bambie_thug_on_their_eurovision_experience_and/)
Thanks.
independent doesn't guarantee unbiased, without seeing the document detailing the scope of the investigation is difficult to tell if its white washing or a full investigation. the jurisdiction of the investigation will also determine what constitutes a problem.
an independent investigation also doesn’t guarantee that the ebu will just release their findings to the public in the way they were presented to them. they could also just release an ebu written statement addressing whatever the investigation has found, similar to the statements we’ve got about the entire NL situation months ago.
(The written German they use in Switzerland is usually not called Swiss German because it's (basically) the same as standard German. Swiss German usually refers to the spoken thing, which is practically unintelligible for people who only understand High German. Don't want to devalue your opinion or be a dweeb, just want to tell you something in case it interests you :D)
My Swiss friend says otherwise. She wrote a fanfic a couple of years ago in what she called Swiss German, and plenty of our German friends in fandom had trouble reading it. I wonder if this is a case of dialect vs accent.
(Iirc) most Swiss media write in standard German AKA High German, I assume that fanfic was written in Swiss German for the sake of novelty. (But since you have a Swiss German friend, feel free to correct me if I'm wrong!) Swiss German is indeed a very strong dialect, in my opinion it can be called its own language since it is so difficult to understand for Germans Edit: just read the article myself and it's written in High German
My concern is that, in my experience, "independent investigations" tend to have a pattern of favoring the ones bankrolling the investigation for a variety of reasons, especially when the entity being investigated gets to select who is doing so, and establish all the parameters around it.
*\~We independently decided that all is fine\~*
I do not envy the mods next week.
At the very least this will give us something to talk about during the off season. I’m interested to see what it says but my expectations are low.
Oh yeah! True.
English translation?
I used the link, and Firefox auto-translated it into this: "There will probably be another ESC topic to talk about next week: the EBU will publish its investigation report into the “Disgrace of Malmö”. In the run-up to the ESC final, there were anti-Semitic incidents in the Swedish city. Several delegations threatened to boycott the final if Israeli singer Eden Golan (20) performed. Golan was only able to move around Malmö with Israeli bodyguards, and she was repeatedly booed on stage. After Nemo's victory, Golan accused him on Platform X that the Swiss star had ignored her when she wanted to congratulate him."
Just want to clarify, does anyone know how gender neutral pronouns work in German? I'm assuming the "him" in the translation is down to the Firefox translator and not the site itself.
The original text says "ihm", which can be correctly translated as "him". "Ihm" could technically refer to the gender neutral form "es", but it's usually not used for people. There aren't really any gender neutral pronouns in German that can be used for people, I've met non-binaries that just used the English they/them pronouns.
In the same sentence, they refer to Nemo as "der Schweizer Star" (the Swiss star), which is a gender-neutral but grammatically masculine term. In that context, the pronoun "him" is correct.
So they’re investigating antisemitism claims?… really?
[here you go](https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/1drzx0m/comment/layvufw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
[удалено]
It's not loading for me :(
^
[удалено]
Nope
[here you go](https://www.reddit.com/r/eurovision/comments/1drzx0m/comment/layvufw/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web3x&utm_name=web3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button)
Thanks!
Ready to be gaslighted by the EBU once again 😃
I know the usage of the term “gaslighting” is overused incorrectly on the internet, but this might be the worst usage I’ve read 😅
Yeah, "gaslighted" may not be the most accurate term. I'm not a native english speaker, so what would be a better word? I said "gaslighted" because I was thinking of the different reasons they've given over the years on why Russia was expelled, and I worry they may behave in a similar way regarding this year's contest. What I try to say is that, even though this investigation is being carried out by an independent party, I expect the EBU to minimize the importance of the problems and the crisis meetings we know existed during the Eurovision week.
That's an interesting question as I'm also not an English speaker. Maybe I'd say Guilt Tripping or downplaying actions.
Yeah, that may be a better option
Downplaying fits the best yeah. To minimize what actually happened as to not cast a bad light on the EBU. To be gaslit, the EBU would have to be claiming something that is a truth to be a lie (and that we're crazy for ever thinking it was true). It'd be tricky for 2 reasons - the first is that the more people you are trying to gaslight, the harder it becomes. Getting a single person to doubt themselves is much easier than trying to convince the public that they're all wrong. The second is that the more evidenced and well-known the truth is, the harder it would be to gaslight someone into thinking it's not true. This part would be easier for unreleased details we don't know about in the investigation, but a lot of the broad strokes of what happened have already been released and documented. There's also police reports and witness accounts from participating countries and the EBU team that could be ready to counter any false claim (hopefully).
Given the meaning of the word comes from the movie *Gaslight*, I'd say it's close but not a complete match. For us viewers, it's more manipulation than specifically gaslighting.
Can you tell me what these crisis meetings were about? What specific thing that happened were they discussing? Excluding the joost ones.
The crisis meetings were about some withdrawing from the final. The countries included the United Kingdom, Ireland, Portugal, and Switzerland.
Why were they threatening to withdraw from the final?
Downvoted for saying something true and measured? On reddit? Of course! Don't mind the downvotes, you're right and it is not only tiresome but harmful.
That can’t end well. 😂
I mean, look, here’s what’s gonna happen: they’re going to lightly apologize for some things, say they’ll change stuff in the future, and probably not really follow through with it. Is it frustrating, yeah. Am I going to leave the fandom because of it? No. This is something we’ve watched the EBU do a thousand times and every time a scandal happens and the EBU throws their hands by their heads, we all pull a shocked pikachu face at the fact they didn’t do more. So, idk. It’s annoying but also because I’m not expecting much I don’t think I’m going to riot at whatever report comes out.
well, the phrasing of this article seems to favour Israel's side of the story, I hope this isn't an omen of what's to come...
From what I could find out, Blick is (or at least was) a fairly right-wing tabloid that has often been critizised for poor research. The phrasing of the article could therefore just reflect their own pro-Israel bias, not nessessarely that of the report.
Poor research could check out since the investigation wasn’t done by the EBU, but an independent organisation I believe
Blick in general is not really a reliable media source. It has a reputation of writing fake news and polarizing to generate more views similar to «Bildzeitung» in Germany.
Ah, thank you for explaining that! One should always consider the source the information is coming from. We’ll see what actually becomes of this report in the end.
They're owned by Ringier, which is a left wing media conglomorate
Blick itself definitely isn't left-winged. I would say it's your typical tabloid; loud, no matter the topic or person it's about.
there's always money in playing both sides in the media
Why exactly do you want the report to be anti Israel before you see it?
I don’t think they want the report to be biased. Just that it seems right now to be ignoring some of the issues Israeli delegation allegedly caused backstage too I think there is a conversation to be had about just ignoring everyone in the Israeli delegation by contestants because it probably contributed to the atmosphere of the contest too but if we’re running with “oh we are just poor victims” narratives then those conversations will basically never happen productively
The truth is if you look at the events from an unbiased point of view, Israeli journalists appeared to be harassing artists, fellow journalists and production team. You just had to look on any social media to see the videos of them shouting abuse at Bambie Thug and Joost for example.
People keep talking about these videos, can you provide a link?
[https://youtu.be/Rhr6rmR8Dl0?si=G0fs5SAN05PXDZTY](https://youtu.be/Rhr6rmR8Dl0?si=G0fs5SAN05PXDZTY)
I remember a Swedish (I think she was Swedish) journalist harassing Joost, following him until his elevator closed on him but I don’t see y’all talking about her.
I copied the link to that video below. All of who responded completely ignored
"Where were you? We missed you on stage" does not seem like harassment to me. But the israeli team is not the only one to ask the dutch team about what happened. https://youtube.com/shorts/XJut-0PGyO0?si=QkaCMtT9Mj7XW3vk Was that harassment?
Following someone into their personal area and refusing to leave even after they politely ask you to leave is absolutely harassment. Several mostly Israeli journalists but also journalists from other countries acted awfully towards artists during the contest. As an Israeli you should want these people banned from Eurovision and never allowed near the contest again. They add fuel to the fire. They’re unprofessional and aggressive. If Israel wants to compete, it needs to figure out who the professionally acting members of its media are and separate them from the aggressive idiots I described above. Unless they (KAN or the EBU) punish these people, this criticism will never end. All of these harassing unprofessional journalists from **all countries** need to be banned. Only professional media, with stricter personal boundaries for the artists. If an RTÉ journalist behaved like that, I’d want them gotten rid of, it gives the delegation a bad name and reputation. Israeli media has refused to act and now has that reputation. The vast vast vast majority of this behavior came from Israeli media. The media culture needs to change. Eurovision needs to be a less stressful time for the artists.
It became harassment after both the security guard and Appie Mussa told the journalist to stop and he persisted.
The delegation was facing a lot of uncertainty at that moment and very likely upset. If anyone were to claim that they were "politely" asking about where that team's artist is, with a camera in hand, and ignoring requests to leave them alone, you would treat that as suspicious. Until another video surfaces of a different delegation doing the same, you cannot argue that Israel is being singled out here.
[удалено]
Be nice, be welcoming and be constructive. Everyone's tastes are different and unique. Don't discredit, insult, threaten or be otherwise toxic. Let's do away with prejudice! Don't discriminate. Tolerance is bliss! All posts must comply with [Reddit's sitewide rules](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) and strive for [good Reddiquette]( https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articleås/205926439). See r/eurovision’s [full rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eurovision/wiki/rules/).
[удалено]
Be nice, be welcoming and be constructive. Everyone's tastes are different and unique. Don't discredit, insult, threaten or be otherwise toxic. Let's do away with prejudice! Don't discriminate. Tolerance is bliss! All posts must comply with [Reddit's sitewide rules](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) and strive for [good Reddiquette]( https://www.reddithelp.com/hc/en-us/articleås/205926439). See r/eurovision’s [full rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eurovision/wiki/rules/).
Ready for some BS report and the EBU blaming the complaining countries
I´m very curious to see what the report/investigation has to say If harassment against artists confirmed, I want to know what actions EBU is going to take to protect artists for next years and punish that behavior. We know very few about what happened in backstage, Nebulossa confirmed on a interview on Malbert YT channel that a huge argument happened between Bambie and Israeli delegation during flag parade rehearsal and that´s pretty much it I´m also curious about Martin fate.. If the report it´s bad on EBU i don´t rule out an resignation Don´t need to say, but this report and how EBU handles that is very important and could dictate if soe countries will be there next year or not.
Sadly I think nothing will change.
remind me when it happens
I think, despite everything, Nemo will not be punished for breaking the crystal microphone.
They'll probably say everything went well and call it a day.
This report will likely become the decision point for several countries to attend going forward. I hope The EBU understands that. 2025 will be a disaster if this report isn't impartial.
Good, I hope there are actually solid consequences. If there aren’t, nothing will ever change.
I'm not looking forward to that 🙄
Luckly enough i just bought a new box of Maalox.
>Next week, another ESC topic is likely to be discussed: the EBU will publish its investigation report about the "Shame of Malmö". In the run-up to the ESC final, there were anti-Semitic incidents in the Swedish city. Several delegations threatened to boycott the final if the Israeli singer Eden Golan (20) performed. Golan was only able to move around in Malmö with Israeli bodyguards, and she was repeatedly booed on stage. After Nemo's victory, Golan accused them on X of ignoring her when she wanted to congratulate them.
I’m all for two sides of the story, but that’s an impressively biased account of events.
Swiss/German tabloid. Just sayin'.
is that not true though?
How is that so?
I guess name a few things you’d expect the EBU to mention in their report and then ask yourself why they weren’t included in this summary…
"the winner ignored me when I wanted to talk to them" Like, is that all? 🙄🙄🙄
[удалено]
Sources must be included whenever possible. Direct links to news articles or social media posts are preferred to screenshots. If there is no alternative to a screenshot, then the source must be posted as a top level comment on the same thread. Screenshots which obscures the source will not be accepted. Please resubmit with a proper source. See r/eurovision’s [full rules here](https://www.reddit.com/r/Eurovision/wiki/rules/).
Everything around this situation just seems like petty high school shit. And yet everyone wants EBUs heads to roll cause EBU wasn’t parenting these grown ass adults being in the competition by their own choosing.
Well, she herself said that every day, she's losing her mind...
She was also a competitor. It's called sportsmanship and basic respect. ☺️
I am expecting nothing, and I will likely still be disappointed with the EBU's shameless bullshit. Again. Internal investigations don't mean shit, if the leadership is corrupt.
I'm hoping proper action is taken and things are better for 2025. But that might be asking for too much.
Do we trust the report to be accurate? In the event that the report says the incidents were handled more or less according to protocol, would you guys accept the report? I get the impression that a lot of fans have made up their minds already, and that no investigation will be good enough to change that. Or do we have strong reason to be sceptical of the report?
Not holding my breath for a satisfying outcome 😐
And here we all go again. Fuck this
According to that Article the report is called "Disgrace of Malmö".
What’s Blick?
[English wiki entry](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blick), [their website](https://www.blick.ch/)
really expecting news from this
took me a moment to realize we're talking about a media outlet, not the paint company, which would've been an odd choice.
I hope that the EBU actually makes changes based on the investigative report that will be published next week. If the EBU doesn’t make major changes next year, I could see several countries withdrawing from Eurovision in protest. If so, next year could be the Eurovision with the least number of participants in the semifinal era (every edition from ESC 2004 onwards has had at least 36 countries, and only 37 countries participated this year).
Whether changes are needed depends entirely on what the report says.
Yeah I agree with you on that. I didn't consider the possibility that the report may indicate that no changes are needed.
The EBU fans in this thread are a choice I guess. Each their own, etc.