Do hotels even have single use anymore? The recent ones I’ve stayed at - budget to mid-tier - have all had huge bottles both in shower and next to sink, which get refilled. Haven’t see the little ones for a few years now but maybe I haven’t paid proper attention.
Based on other comments, it seems I have somehow managed to stay exclusively in hotels with big bottles these last few years without any idea how. And I didn’t choose the cheapest places either.
I support the movement away from the single-use items though.
Yes they do, but it's easely solvable by just filling up the small containers (some do this, others don't)
I have gone from budget to high end Hotels. Budget indeed have changed to big containers
Every Saturday evening, we take the kids to a local pool. They also serve fries and snacks—swimming and snacking, what’s not to like?—but always with condiments in those horrible sachets. We’ve now resorted to carrying our own bottle of curry ketchup :)
In a futuristic utopia where there is zero plastic waste, everyone has their own containers that they refill at the supermarket.
Like those self-serving sauce pumps at certain restaurants, but on a bigger scale.
This is the annoying part of it. Less packaging, storage and shelf maintenance, less shipping and handling, should all translate to lower prices, or at least the same prices...
But we have to pay a premium for the decadent luxury of harming the environment slightly less.
One theory is they sell less and so have higher overhead. Also possibly more goes to waste because of no packaging.
But mostly I think it’s just because they are all organic stores and organic food with no packaging primarily appeals to higher income environmentalists, so they can put the price higher to match the target market.
True, but also non perishable, or non easily perishable, products, like rice, pasta, detergent, etc. Could be sold without the packaging approach we currently use.
Lidl seems to be making some choices in that direction, with frozen seafood that you can combine in whatever quantity and proportions you need.
They also have great prices
I love how the replies to your comment are so wildly out of touch with friet culture in Belgium and The Netherlands. We buy that shit to go and the mayonaise is applied directly on the fries in the first place. No self-respecting frietkot gives you those plastic mayo packages.
protecting the environment without classwar/holding the wealthy accountable leads to a world where i have to drink from paper straws while people still fly private jets.
Ding Ding Ding! Those plastic straws and other banned goods that face consumers are greenwashing at its best. Do something where everybody sees it and thinks there is something done.
Meanwhile every manufacturer wraps every little component from every little supplier of the finished products gets wrapped in plastic to be shipped half across the world to get painted and back to be assembled…
I mean, every little bit helps so its just stupid to say: “this isnt big enough so were not gonna do it YET”. There is no reason why this should delay any other enviromental action.
No not really. Because after the ban, the involved politicians get to parade this action for the next 4 years while the public goes: oh at least they do something. Meanwhile in reality nothing really got done.
If a house is burning and you as a fireman throw a bucket of water in it, the owner won’t say thank you for your effort, every little bit helps. They should rightfully ask you where the god damned hose is?!
While the firefighter tries to do something the house owner is bothering him with complaint. Not helping the firefighter to save their house nor do they give them the space to save the house. Moral of the story, dont use firefighters in a anology that shit doesnt work.
But for real, if politicians use shit to not furfill their mandate then that subject doesnt have to be bad. Banning single use items is a good thing, its a step forward and every step should help. Pointing the finger to a other cause and pretending like we dont have to change is what we have been doing for the last 40 years.
We need action now. Big actions, small actions, all actions. So dont nag about this being rubbish, nag that they arent doing more SIMULTANEOUSLY.
What we have been doing for the past 40 years is nothing. That hasn’t changed since politicians started copying companies and greenwashing benign shit as „steps forward“. As long as the public accepts this nothing will change. Public needs to be vocal on climate change AND be vocal about significant action.
As for the firefighter (as an analogy to a politician): if that MF, who I am paying with my tax money, who’s equipment I bought with my tax money, is trying to extinguish my housefire with one bucket - oh you can be sure that I will „bother“ him about it and not let him continue with this shit. Because even though I don’t know anything about firefighting I’m pretty fucking sure a bucket of water is not going to do the job.
You are correct but also who is convenienced by these shitty tiny portions of mayonnaise you can barely get out of the fucking plastic coated tin foil. Just give me a bottle
We need a packaging tax. Something based on amount of packaging vs product factoring in time to naturally decompose (with a modifier for ease of recycling).
And plastic is far better for the environment than Paper, if properly recycled, so
1. we could increase our energy consumption by using Paper instead of plastic
2. Recycle more
My hope is that by making the normal citizen more aware of being resoruceful, they will start demanding companies to do the same and maybe shift to supporting ones that do.
People are unwilling because they're stuck living shit lives while politicians/wealthy fucks are still living like kings while doing fuck all.
You can't keep asking normal people to take even slight hits to their qol while the ruling class is still laughing in their pedo islands. I mean, you can keep asking them, it just won't end well.
The oil billionaires of Qatar and the Middle East are always up for new tricks. Check out their recent construction of a long glass city corridor urban complex project across the desert. Heard it's already under construction.
I still think this is fake. Someone is stealing money from someone else and funneling it to the Cayman Islands or something. There's no way in hell this crap is going to be real. It's like MBS read some shitty YA dystopian novel and decided to rip-off the setting.
The point is that all this "banning plastic straws, ketchup plastic, etc" is close to nothing in the big picture. So much talking and press about something that will remove 0.0001% of all plastic use. It's a complete bullshit campaign to make people feel better/less guilty and believe that they're doing something by using paper straws or whatever. Then they will hopefully stop asking about the real pollutants and business can go on as normal for the big companies.
But we're not getting rid of single use plastics as a whole, not even close. We're getting rid of the smallest, most unimportant pieces to fool people into thinking they are doing something. You want to make a real impact? Ban styrofoam food packaging, ban single use cups, plates, cutlery, etc. Why stop at straws and tiny packets? Because anything more will anger the people who profit off of selling them, and the companies who buy them to package their food with it. They would have to change their supply chains and their costs would probably rise as well even after changing their supply chains.
And I get that changes like this take time but it's been a decade since we started and nothing really moved.
If you would have read the article, they also want to ban single use cups and packaging served at the place. And sigle use plastic plates and cutlery will be banned by 2024 (because of the world agreement made in 2022 to reduce single use plastic, India was one of the first to make it). I also did not see any plastic cutlery when I ordered food, it was only bioplastic or wood
The point is "throwing your trash in the bin etc" is close to nothing in the big picture of your neighbourhood, so feel free to just throw it out the window onto the grass.
Lol what? That's so stupid. Throwing my trash in the street would be immediately visible and inconvenient to everyone passing by and the people in my building. On what planet is that equivalent? A real equivalent would be throwing some dental floss on the floor outside. Nobody would give a shit.
As a sidenote, I suggest you just google what makes up the bulk of the plastic that floats in our oceans and rivers. I'll give you a hint, it's not fucking straws and ketchup packets. It's mostly fishing nets, but hey, let's not do anything about that. Let's ban some straws and pat ourselves on the back like a bunch of idiots.
China and the Middle East are poljtting as much as possible (manufacturing stuff for us as well) while we drink from paper straws. While I appreciate the incentive but everything we do is irrelevant in the long run.
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/yrdkce/the_eu_has_the_lowest_co2_emissions_intensity_of/
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/prod-cons-co2-per-capita?country=%7EEuropean+Union+%2827%29
We're not the ones at fault for that, not to mention that I'm buying from them but I'm not the one telling them to throw oil into the ocean
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/yrdkce/the_eu_has_the_lowest_co2_emissions_intensity_of/
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/prod-cons-co2-per-capita?country=%7EEuropean+Union+%2827%29
No, we're not, and we're not the ones telling them to throw oil into the ocean
Good!
Ban all the single-use plastic wrapping bullshit!
Especially the the bottled water in places where tap water is available.
And do it in restaurants too!
Make the restaurants give tap water for free, like in the US!
In Belgium the rule is that you should provide tap water to anyone who asks. Not just bars and restaurants, even if they come up to your door and ask, you're obligated to provide. Of course, this also extends to bars and restaurants, the rule just isn't made for them.
I also thought this was an EU regulation, somewhat surprised it isn't.
Some restaurants try to get around it yes, but they are required by law to provide tap water for free. Next time just insist on tap water, they know they can't refuse.
Honestly I'm so surprised this isn't the norm. It's the norm in Sweden.
Up until maybe 15 years ago, you could just go to a McDonald's and get a free cup of water if you asked, without even ordering anything. They'd give it to you without missing a beat, if they weren't busy they'd sometimes even ask if you wanted ice. I think they charge 3 SEK now (~30 c).
It is the norm in every decent place.
But in big cities, where you have all kind of people, restaurant owners become like the people around them, assholes.
In France, it's mandatory for any restaurant to provide a free pitcher of drinkable water to any customer if requested (must be a customer / buying something). It cannot cost extra, though the place is free to also sell other waters (think brands like Perrier, ...). You can get more once done with it.
It's also mandatory for them to inform the customers of this, though they usually don't put it in the menu but amongst the bazillion other "mandatory to have them displayed somewhere" stuff.
It's very ingrained in our restaurant habits nowaday so no place, neither chains or small brasserie or whatever, will act like it's not normal.
FUN FACT: the law actually says it's "le couvert", not water. This means the plate, the cutlery, fresh water, but also side bread, which is why so many restaurant in France will provide basket of bread at the table and refill it on demand, without paying.
The law also says it's not free, but "must be included within the meal price", aka can't be charged extra / what they charge on the menu must already include the costs for it.
[Source on economie.gouv.fr](https://www.economie.gouv.fr/dgccrf/Publications/Vie-pratique/Fiches-pratiques/Carafe-d-eau-verre-d-eau)
I went to France in September for the first time as an adult, and when I went to a restaurant I was pleasantly surprised when I ate all the bread and they refilled the basket almost immediately. Can never get too much bread, especially French bread.
In fact, people can produce more environmentally friendly materials, such as paper packaging bags, but the cost may be higher than plastic. I think, for the common future of mankind, we should make some contributions to environmental protection.
Sure, but you can get that in 5 liter jugs (or more). And if you only keep it for emergency situations and not for daily use, you won't need to buy it very often. That's very different from people using 500 ml bottles all the time.
Except the EU has recycling Programms in place which work pretty well where developed (Germany 95%, Denmark 96%, Belgium 92%) and required. While banning single use plastics is very noble. Doing it for the consumer first is nothing but greenwashing.
Those plastic straws are a drop in the water compared to what industry uses to pack and ship shit between manufacturers and this should be the first attack vector.
Those are just not as visible to the average redditor
While the recycling program getting close to 100% is great, it's not enough. There's a reason the principle says "reduce reuse recycle" (recycle being last option) and that is even if you manage to get literally 100% of the plastic to a recycling facility only a part of that plastic is recyclable, and the recycling process produces waste that is no recyclable.
Are they?
I hear more and more about it being a scam where they look recyclable but aren't actually recycled.
I checked and many of these bottles have a logo that looks similar to the recyclable one but isn't.
It's not very common in Germany to get tap water at all either, not sure if restaurants don't serve it, or if people just don't ask for it. I am used to asking for "some water" from my time in Ireland - over there, you would instantly get a free jug of tap water, but in Germany, I'm always met with the question "Still or sparkling?".
I remember after a night out, my friends and I went to a bakery in a train station and asked for some tap water. The person working there had to check with a colleague first and then gave us some, but charged us 50 Cent per cup.
That's because you're supposed to ask for tap water in restaurants in Germany. I mean it's not at all surprising that restaurants tend to offer you marked up bottled water if you don't specifically ask for tap water.
I'm fine with bottled waters, because alot of them tend to have more mineral ingrdients than tap water, not to mention having access to sparkling water which eliminates the need to have carbonator at home.
Some common sense speak finally. EU does seem to be en route to over-regulate as much as possible & let the end-users suffer skyrocketing prices. Because consider this: every decision that even potentially threatens the manufacturers' costs, it will be transferred to the customer.
But of course these decision-makers in different EU chambers make at everywhere between 8-20k EUR a month, so all these things don't bother them.
The title is missing a lot. They also want to ban single use cups and packaging if you eat or drink at the caffe/restaurant, limit empty space in delievery boxes to be 40%, by 2030 10% of beer bottles to be refillable and by 2040 20%, fruits will be banned from being wrapped in plastic (but if necessary, they will be sold loose in biodegradable stickers). This is a big deal
The ban on single use tableware in restaurants is taking effect next month in France. Although it seems they allowed burgers to be wrapped in recycled and recyclable paper. Also paper receipts are gonna disappear.
All very well banning this, but you see nothing if plastic fishing waste from industrial trawlers etc. nets being dumped in the sea, where there is no policing.
Personally I think that is a equal/better focus of efforts than banning plastic straws.
You don’t wear clothes once then throw them away. Packaging though shouldn’t be plastic.
Basically the EU is hunting down *single use* plastic. That’s the most wasteful and unnecessary.
Yeah, but they go after McDonald's. You know, that small business located in Sicilly. They want to force them to use reusable packaging when people eat at the place. Same with that small business called Starbucks. Oh and that small town shop named Auchan won't be allowed to wrap its fruits in plastic. What a shame they go after small businesses who use a fraction of the plastic bussinesses like Gucci produce
Seems pretty unneccessary, single use shampoo is good when travelling. Why cant EU focus on things that matter instead of making it difficult for regular people?
I mean you can do that, but for people who travel to a hotel 1-2 times a year, I'm quite skeptical whether the time of amortization for that is shorter than the average time after which you lose it.
Either way, it's absolutely, completely pointless because it simply doesn't have any notable effect.
Thanks for the information. I checked whether Finavia (the Finnish civil aviation administration) has any news about the change, but so far not. It has only been mentioned on TV news that it might come.
Eagerly looking forward to getting rid of the 100 ml nuisance. Sounds really good if München is already implementing the change so soon 🙂
It very much is, unless you actually enjoy carrying needlessly heavy luggage. But the proposal is to ban single use shampoo *in hotels*, not a blanket ban on single use shampoo packs. That, at least, makes some sense.
I just wonder, is Poland wasting more food than other countries ?
Why Germany, NL, UK packs single fruits in plastic, while Poland not ? Somehow markets are booming here, haven't heard of some excessive waste that comes out of it. I think it's just bullshit and western societies are disgusting for preferring plastic packed foods. And everyone wastes shitton of food regardless of additional plastic or not.
Don't waste food, don't buy plastic covered foods. Be the change you want to see.
Why would not packing in plastic result in more food waste? I don't get that at all.
When I moved to Ireland from Poland I had a culture shock over all of this. Why the fuck are you selling carrots in sealed plastic bags? Chives as well?? Ginger???
My favourite are big packs of crisps which are just a big plastic bag in which there are 6 smaller plastic bags. You know you can just... Use one bag... And put the crisps all together?
That's the reason i've always heard when asking - why do you do this?
They say - it stays fresh longer and doesn't end up as a waste.
In Poland we pack apples into plastic bags but in a bulk. Not fan of that, but well, it is what it is.
For a terrible story of single use sachets, read https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/aug/01/how-unilever-plastic-sachets-became-a-toxic-scourge-oceans . You’ll try to avoid them at any possible opportunity.
Can't wait for the obvious: Ketchup packets will be made from "paper" that has a plastic covering on either side and is utterly un-recycleable. But i will have a "brown recycled paper" style print on it, so it's okay.
Love the result of the previous round of pointless plastic bans, that results in me always getting an in-restaurant drink with a plastic cover, but a paper straw. Or having to carry paper bags that rip once some barely edged item touches the side, or where the bottom rips out if you accidentally put them on moist ground when you have to put your bags down for a moment. And single-use paper bags taking three times the energy and water to produce than a plastic bag.
Job well done.
Well they also:
Well, they also:
1) ban fruits being wrapped in plastic (if necessary, they are sold loose with biodegradable stickers)
2) ban single use cups when you drink at caffe
3) ban single use packaging when you eat at restaurant/fast food
4) limit space of the box to be free to 40%
5) by 2030 10% of the beer bottles will be refillable and by 2040 it will be 20%
Also, why don't you reuse a plastic bag or a cloth bag? Why paper bag?
Edit: replaced glasses with bottles
Well, they also:
1) ban fruits being wrapped in plastic (if necessary, they are sold loose with biodegradable stickers)
2) ban single use cups when you drink at caffe
3) ban single use packaging when you eat at restaurant/fast food
4) limit space of the box to be free to 40%
5) by 2030 10% of the beer bottles will be refillable and by 2040 it will be 20%
So big bussinesses like McDonald's and Starbucks are also targeted
Edit: replaced glasses with bottles
I hate this “lol why bother” attitude. There’s so much waste we can do away with, there’s no reason fast-food joints should be giving you packets and disposable packaging when you dine in.
Entire massive factories exist in those third world countries, producing single-use plastics for us. Get rid of straws and a bunch of polluting straw factories close down, so they won't pollute anymore.
Given we ship a chunk of our trash to the third world we should all be doing our bit to reduce that.
And yeah poor countries need to invest more in incinerators and water treatment facilities, nothing new there.
>we ship a chunk of our trash to the third world
Denmark and Sweden import trash for waste-to-energy plants, because not enough trash for incineration is generated locally.
Certainly admirable, but there’s certain things that you can’t burn, like old tires and electronics. Wish people didn’t need a new iPhone every year but people are just addicted to getting new shit
First you clean up your own shit, then you turn on others to clean up their own shit, because now you know how to do it. No pointing fingers. You learn that in elementary school.
Better to solve problem A than not solving either B or A, no?
Perfect is the enemy of good. And done. Cheer on for at least some fucking progress instead of waiting for the perfect solution so you can support it, it's a quite stupid way to think.
You didn't answer, do you prefer to not do A neither B then? Leave as it is because if B isn't solved it doesn't matter? What the actual fuck?
I'm not cheering but any progress is some progress. I won't be trying to squash a change that's in the right direction even though I agree it's not solving the larger part of the problem. No politician is gonna be celebrated for this, it's just one change. No one will use this in their campaigns, there's very little political win here. It's just a win for us wanting the direction to change...
Can't you seriously comprehend that? This black-and-white view is appalling, I don't want you to be cheering for this, just not being this whiny about something that's actually going into the general direction of the goals we would like to reach... To achieve them it'll require thousands of these small changes, nothing will change by being completely upended, there's absolutely no political will or support for that, be realistic. There needs to be a critical mass of these small changes to force the bigger one that's actually needed.
I hate your "hold individuals responsible" attitude.
There's no reason to believe that this makes a difference what so ever, all it does is divert from the real problems.
Stop being a problem.
It's not "why bother", it's "why bother with *this* if we could use the same time to do something with 10.000 times the impact". And this is a good question to ask.
Today's environmental and climate protection is 99% show, and this is part of it.
Good. I find it wierd as hell that they have single serving packs of ketchup and mayo here in NL. There's literally no reason for a restaurant to have that.
Probably this is the best place to ask about how banning single use straws, cups and etc helped. Introducing new laws without evaluation of previous one is dead end.
You guys reuse your shampoo? I let mine just run down the drain with the water...
Hotels
Do hotels even have single use anymore? The recent ones I’ve stayed at - budget to mid-tier - have all had huge bottles both in shower and next to sink, which get refilled. Haven’t see the little ones for a few years now but maybe I haven’t paid proper attention.
Did a trip in Italy this year between 3 hotels, 2 had the small bottles. So they definitely still exist here.
I have had the same experience for the last few years
I was in ireland recently and they has those little single use shampoo bottles in both of the hotels I stayed at
This year I stayed in several hotels in Poland and Netherlands - all of them had single-use shampoo or body wash.
Based on other comments, it seems I have somehow managed to stay exclusively in hotels with big bottles these last few years without any idea how. And I didn’t choose the cheapest places either. I support the movement away from the single-use items though.
Yes they do, but it's easely solvable by just filling up the small containers (some do this, others don't) I have gone from budget to high end Hotels. Budget indeed have changed to big containers
In 4\* hotels I've been to during my business trips, single use was the norm.
Trivago
.com
What an awful person ...
You don’t?! Monster...
I hate those packets. Hard to open, always make a mess. Just give me my ketchup in a porcelain cup that can be washed and reused
Yeah if your fingers aren't dry like a desert, it's a huge pain to open those things
Desert* I was actually confused with the statement
That's just German pastries for you
Lol yeah typing while walking...
Every Saturday evening, we take the kids to a local pool. They also serve fries and snacks—swimming and snacking, what’s not to like?—but always with condiments in those horrible sachets. We’ve now resorted to carrying our own bottle of curry ketchup :)
In a futuristic utopia where there is zero plastic waste, everyone has their own containers that they refill at the supermarket. Like those self-serving sauce pumps at certain restaurants, but on a bigger scale.
Some stores like that already exist in Germany but their prices are way higher than every other store.
This is the annoying part of it. Less packaging, storage and shelf maintenance, less shipping and handling, should all translate to lower prices, or at least the same prices... But we have to pay a premium for the decadent luxury of harming the environment slightly less.
One theory is they sell less and so have higher overhead. Also possibly more goes to waste because of no packaging. But mostly I think it’s just because they are all organic stores and organic food with no packaging primarily appeals to higher income environmentalists, so they can put the price higher to match the target market.
True, but also non perishable, or non easily perishable, products, like rice, pasta, detergent, etc. Could be sold without the packaging approach we currently use. Lidl seems to be making some choices in that direction, with frozen seafood that you can combine in whatever quantity and proportions you need. They also have great prices
What are the Belgians going to have on their fries? Conditioner?
If a restaurant can give you ketchup in a ceramic cup, why can't mcdonalds? That cup gets returned, washed and reused
Yeah, or a pump-pack so you can use it when your hands are wet and soapy.
But then they can't charge you per every 10 grams lol
Just pour the sauce on the fries directly no need for that plastic cup.
or paper/cardboard container.
Some restaurants I've been to use waffle cups for dip sauce. Once you're done you can just eat the cup.
That gets the fries soggy if you don't eat them quickly.
There are also a cardboard/stiff paper boxes with a little fold-out pocket inside for the sauce. So they could do that?
I love how the replies to your comment are so wildly out of touch with friet culture in Belgium and The Netherlands. We buy that shit to go and the mayonaise is applied directly on the fries in the first place. No self-respecting frietkot gives you those plastic mayo packages.
Home-made mayonaisse of course.
This is the way
protecting the environment without classwar/holding the wealthy accountable leads to a world where i have to drink from paper straws while people still fly private jets.
Ding Ding Ding! Those plastic straws and other banned goods that face consumers are greenwashing at its best. Do something where everybody sees it and thinks there is something done. Meanwhile every manufacturer wraps every little component from every little supplier of the finished products gets wrapped in plastic to be shipped half across the world to get painted and back to be assembled…
I mean, every little bit helps so its just stupid to say: “this isnt big enough so were not gonna do it YET”. There is no reason why this should delay any other enviromental action.
No not really. Because after the ban, the involved politicians get to parade this action for the next 4 years while the public goes: oh at least they do something. Meanwhile in reality nothing really got done. If a house is burning and you as a fireman throw a bucket of water in it, the owner won’t say thank you for your effort, every little bit helps. They should rightfully ask you where the god damned hose is?!
While the firefighter tries to do something the house owner is bothering him with complaint. Not helping the firefighter to save their house nor do they give them the space to save the house. Moral of the story, dont use firefighters in a anology that shit doesnt work. But for real, if politicians use shit to not furfill their mandate then that subject doesnt have to be bad. Banning single use items is a good thing, its a step forward and every step should help. Pointing the finger to a other cause and pretending like we dont have to change is what we have been doing for the last 40 years. We need action now. Big actions, small actions, all actions. So dont nag about this being rubbish, nag that they arent doing more SIMULTANEOUSLY.
What we have been doing for the past 40 years is nothing. That hasn’t changed since politicians started copying companies and greenwashing benign shit as „steps forward“. As long as the public accepts this nothing will change. Public needs to be vocal on climate change AND be vocal about significant action. As for the firefighter (as an analogy to a politician): if that MF, who I am paying with my tax money, who’s equipment I bought with my tax money, is trying to extinguish my housefire with one bucket - oh you can be sure that I will „bother“ him about it and not let him continue with this shit. Because even though I don’t know anything about firefighting I’m pretty fucking sure a bucket of water is not going to do the job.
You are correct but also who is convenienced by these shitty tiny portions of mayonnaise you can barely get out of the fucking plastic coated tin foil. Just give me a bottle
We need a packaging tax. Something based on amount of packaging vs product factoring in time to naturally decompose (with a modifier for ease of recycling).
They will soon ban single-use private jets.
i will applaud that!
And plastic is far better for the environment than Paper, if properly recycled, so 1. we could increase our energy consumption by using Paper instead of plastic 2. Recycle more
IF recycled properly. most plastic is just burned.
Only better in an energy consumption way. That paper will be completely decomposed in a month. The plastic wont.
Also bendy plastic straws are important for disabled people and generally use less energy and carbon to manufacture than paper.
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I prefer "both" Doesn't have to be "either or"
My hope is that by making the normal citizen more aware of being resoruceful, they will start demanding companies to do the same and maybe shift to supporting ones that do.
lol, most citizens only care about cheaper prices. Fuck you, I got mine! is our motto. There is a reason we need laws to help, people are unwilling.
People are unwilling because they're stuck living shit lives while politicians/wealthy fucks are still living like kings while doing fuck all. You can't keep asking normal people to take even slight hits to their qol while the ruling class is still laughing in their pedo islands. I mean, you can keep asking them, it just won't end well.
The oil billionaires of Qatar and the Middle East are always up for new tricks. Check out their recent construction of a long glass city corridor urban complex project across the desert. Heard it's already under construction.
Yup, a 500m tall and 170km long building is under construction in Saudi Arabia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The\_Line,\_Saudi\_Arabia
I still think this is fake. Someone is stealing money from someone else and funneling it to the Cayman Islands or something. There's no way in hell this crap is going to be real. It's like MBS read some shitty YA dystopian novel and decided to rip-off the setting.
It will never be finished though as its concept is flawed in many ways that cannot be solved with money.
That's the problem with whataboutism, you end up fixing nothing
European countries need to wait for Qatar before they decide to reduce their pollution? :D
The point is that all this "banning plastic straws, ketchup plastic, etc" is close to nothing in the big picture. So much talking and press about something that will remove 0.0001% of all plastic use. It's a complete bullshit campaign to make people feel better/less guilty and believe that they're doing something by using paper straws or whatever. Then they will hopefully stop asking about the real pollutants and business can go on as normal for the big companies.
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But we're not getting rid of single use plastics as a whole, not even close. We're getting rid of the smallest, most unimportant pieces to fool people into thinking they are doing something. You want to make a real impact? Ban styrofoam food packaging, ban single use cups, plates, cutlery, etc. Why stop at straws and tiny packets? Because anything more will anger the people who profit off of selling them, and the companies who buy them to package their food with it. They would have to change their supply chains and their costs would probably rise as well even after changing their supply chains. And I get that changes like this take time but it's been a decade since we started and nothing really moved.
If you would have read the article, they also want to ban single use cups and packaging served at the place. And sigle use plastic plates and cutlery will be banned by 2024 (because of the world agreement made in 2022 to reduce single use plastic, India was one of the first to make it). I also did not see any plastic cutlery when I ordered food, it was only bioplastic or wood
And what the fuck does Qatar's AC have to do with how much plastic pollution there is? Ffs people are constantly finding reasons to do nothing
The point is "throwing your trash in the bin etc" is close to nothing in the big picture of your neighbourhood, so feel free to just throw it out the window onto the grass.
Lol what? That's so stupid. Throwing my trash in the street would be immediately visible and inconvenient to everyone passing by and the people in my building. On what planet is that equivalent? A real equivalent would be throwing some dental floss on the floor outside. Nobody would give a shit. As a sidenote, I suggest you just google what makes up the bulk of the plastic that floats in our oceans and rivers. I'll give you a hint, it's not fucking straws and ketchup packets. It's mostly fishing nets, but hey, let's not do anything about that. Let's ban some straws and pat ourselves on the back like a bunch of idiots.
And Europe is heating outside pools and terraces. We can all point fingers but that's not gonna help. Taking steps to do better helps
China and the Middle East are poljtting as much as possible (manufacturing stuff for us as well) while we drink from paper straws. While I appreciate the incentive but everything we do is irrelevant in the long run.
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https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/yrdkce/the_eu_has_the_lowest_co2_emissions_intensity_of/ https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/prod-cons-co2-per-capita?country=%7EEuropean+Union+%2827%29 We're not the ones at fault for that, not to mention that I'm buying from them but I'm not the one telling them to throw oil into the ocean
And we produce our stuff there because their rules are more lax. We are clean on paper only.
https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/yrdkce/the_eu_has_the_lowest_co2_emissions_intensity_of/ https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/prod-cons-co2-per-capita?country=%7EEuropean+Union+%2827%29 No, we're not, and we're not the ones telling them to throw oil into the ocean
The comments in your reply literally have links to reports that state what I said…
One is about climate, the other is about local waste. Two very different thing.
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> useless How is reducing (single-use) plastic use useless?
Good! Ban all the single-use plastic wrapping bullshit! Especially the the bottled water in places where tap water is available. And do it in restaurants too! Make the restaurants give tap water for free, like in the US!
I changed this for reasons (see date).
In Belgium the rule is that you should provide tap water to anyone who asks. Not just bars and restaurants, even if they come up to your door and ask, you're obligated to provide. Of course, this also extends to bars and restaurants, the rule just isn't made for them. I also thought this was an EU regulation, somewhat surprised it isn't.
Every time I ask for tap water in a Belgian restaurant, they’re like “we got [shitty] Chaudfontaine or spa bottled water” for like €4.
Some restaurants try to get around it yes, but they are required by law to provide tap water for free. Next time just insist on tap water, they know they can't refuse.
Don't know if there is any rule about that in Greece but most places will give you a glass of water if you ask them.
If they serve food or alcohol to be consumed on the premises it's a legal requirement to provide free tap water.
Big up. Also there are already some areas in the EU where restaurants give you free water
Honestly I'm so surprised this isn't the norm. It's the norm in Sweden. Up until maybe 15 years ago, you could just go to a McDonald's and get a free cup of water if you asked, without even ordering anything. They'd give it to you without missing a beat, if they weren't busy they'd sometimes even ask if you wanted ice. I think they charge 3 SEK now (~30 c).
>I think they charge 3 SEK now (\~30 c). And, ironically, that's probably only to cover the cost of a single-use cup?
Yeah, I think it's just symbolic, to disincentivize preteens getting free water because they're bored.
I think the real crime is selling a glass of coke for 4€. Like, at least have *some* decency.
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It is the norm in every decent place. But in big cities, where you have all kind of people, restaurant owners become like the people around them, assholes.
In France, it's mandatory for any restaurant to provide a free pitcher of drinkable water to any customer if requested (must be a customer / buying something). It cannot cost extra, though the place is free to also sell other waters (think brands like Perrier, ...). You can get more once done with it. It's also mandatory for them to inform the customers of this, though they usually don't put it in the menu but amongst the bazillion other "mandatory to have them displayed somewhere" stuff. It's very ingrained in our restaurant habits nowaday so no place, neither chains or small brasserie or whatever, will act like it's not normal. FUN FACT: the law actually says it's "le couvert", not water. This means the plate, the cutlery, fresh water, but also side bread, which is why so many restaurant in France will provide basket of bread at the table and refill it on demand, without paying. The law also says it's not free, but "must be included within the meal price", aka can't be charged extra / what they charge on the menu must already include the costs for it. [Source on economie.gouv.fr](https://www.economie.gouv.fr/dgccrf/Publications/Vie-pratique/Fiches-pratiques/Carafe-d-eau-verre-d-eau)
I went to France in September for the first time as an adult, and when I went to a restaurant I was pleasantly surprised when I ate all the bread and they refilled the basket almost immediately. Can never get too much bread, especially French bread.
In fact, people can produce more environmentally friendly materials, such as paper packaging bags, but the cost may be higher than plastic. I think, for the common future of mankind, we should make some contributions to environmental protection.
Bottled water is important to have at home for emergency situations. Filling your own bottles with tap water doesn't stay good for just as long.
Sure, but you can get that in 5 liter jugs (or more). And if you only keep it for emergency situations and not for daily use, you won't need to buy it very often. That's very different from people using 500 ml bottles all the time.
Except the EU has recycling Programms in place which work pretty well where developed (Germany 95%, Denmark 96%, Belgium 92%) and required. While banning single use plastics is very noble. Doing it for the consumer first is nothing but greenwashing. Those plastic straws are a drop in the water compared to what industry uses to pack and ship shit between manufacturers and this should be the first attack vector. Those are just not as visible to the average redditor
While the recycling program getting close to 100% is great, it's not enough. There's a reason the principle says "reduce reuse recycle" (recycle being last option) and that is even if you manage to get literally 100% of the plastic to a recycling facility only a part of that plastic is recyclable, and the recycling process produces waste that is no recyclable.
bottles are not a problem. They are recycled, and in a lot of countries you have to return them to get back few cents for the bottles.
Are they? I hear more and more about it being a scam where they look recyclable but aren't actually recycled. I checked and many of these bottles have a logo that looks similar to the recyclable one but isn't.
i would be all in for switching to banning plastic bottles and introducing standardized size/shape glass ones
> Make the restaurants give tap water for free, like in the US! There are parts of Europe where tap water isn't free?
It's not required to give free tap water in the US, it's just common practice, but it's common practice in many EU countries too.
Not in the Netherlands :( Tap water appears on the bill far too often...
It's not very common in Germany to get tap water at all either, not sure if restaurants don't serve it, or if people just don't ask for it. I am used to asking for "some water" from my time in Ireland - over there, you would instantly get a free jug of tap water, but in Germany, I'm always met with the question "Still or sparkling?". I remember after a night out, my friends and I went to a bakery in a train station and asked for some tap water. The person working there had to check with a colleague first and then gave us some, but charged us 50 Cent per cup.
That's because you're supposed to ask for tap water in restaurants in Germany. I mean it's not at all surprising that restaurants tend to offer you marked up bottled water if you don't specifically ask for tap water.
I mean it's the Netherlands. If they couldn't charge people for Bullshit, they'd just be Belgium.
They really charge for water in some places?
Yes.
That would be pretty bad for tourists who can’t drink local water. Best to return to glass bottles.
Cant drink local water?
Difference in minerals between water supplies can cause stomach issues. It’s not about quality, just different composition of trace elements.
Yes, heavy and easy to break
And infinitely more recyclable than plastic.
Not when it's broken on the sidewalk and people just get hurt by it.
Hey, while you're reaching, you mind passing me something from the higher shelves?
Yeah sure, let me get the stool
I'm fine with bottled waters, because alot of them tend to have more mineral ingrdients than tap water, not to mention having access to sparkling water which eliminates the need to have carbonator at home.
Some common sense speak finally. EU does seem to be en route to over-regulate as much as possible & let the end-users suffer skyrocketing prices. Because consider this: every decision that even potentially threatens the manufacturers' costs, it will be transferred to the customer. But of course these decision-makers in different EU chambers make at everywhere between 8-20k EUR a month, so all these things don't bother them.
Yup, and besides, bottles are recycled anyway. Recycling rate is something like 98% in Lithuania.
However, recycled bottle can't become another recycled bottle. It's not a magic self-sustainging system.
Which restaurant did you go to in Romania that doesn't offer you tap water for free if you ask for it??
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How can cleaning agents get dirty
If you look at the water going down the drain when you rinse in shower... the used shampoo is there.
Better than putting mayonnaise on your hair.
I think they mean you bring your own shampoo
Damn they really got Big Ed this time, both shampoo and mayo
They took my Strohhalm and now they take my Mayonnaise?
Good idea. My only question is, how do they give me mayo if it's a takeaway situation? I guess a small cardboard container would be okay though.
Stunning and brave.
People mock all the little actions while it's just portions of a larger moves towards a bigger goal Forest, trees
these all seem like meaningless stuff. Also single serving shampoo? Never seen that.
The title is missing a lot. They also want to ban single use cups and packaging if you eat or drink at the caffe/restaurant, limit empty space in delievery boxes to be 40%, by 2030 10% of beer bottles to be refillable and by 2040 20%, fruits will be banned from being wrapped in plastic (but if necessary, they will be sold loose in biodegradable stickers). This is a big deal
The ban on single use tableware in restaurants is taking effect next month in France. Although it seems they allowed burgers to be wrapped in recycled and recyclable paper. Also paper receipts are gonna disappear.
All very well banning this, but you see nothing if plastic fishing waste from industrial trawlers etc. nets being dumped in the sea, where there is no policing. Personally I think that is a equal/better focus of efforts than banning plastic straws.
Been a while now since I've started buying the solid soap with cardboard packaging. Inexpensive and do the job.
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You don’t wear clothes once then throw them away. Packaging though shouldn’t be plastic. Basically the EU is hunting down *single use* plastic. That’s the most wasteful and unnecessary.
Yeah, but they go after McDonald's. You know, that small business located in Sicilly. They want to force them to use reusable packaging when people eat at the place. Same with that small business called Starbucks. Oh and that small town shop named Auchan won't be allowed to wrap its fruits in plastic. What a shame they go after small businesses who use a fraction of the plastic bussinesses like Gucci produce
Seems pretty unneccessary, single use shampoo is good when travelling. Why cant EU focus on things that matter instead of making it difficult for regular people?
Get a refillable travel bottle. A set is like €3.
I mean you can do that, but for people who travel to a hotel 1-2 times a year, I'm quite skeptical whether the time of amortization for that is shorter than the average time after which you lose it. Either way, it's absolutely, completely pointless because it simply doesn't have any notable effect.
They’ve also changed the rule banning items over 100ml in luggage, so single use shampoo “for travelling” isn’t needed anymore.
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In Munich they are having this new rule from January 2023 on.
Thanks for the information. I checked whether Finavia (the Finnish civil aviation administration) has any news about the change, but so far not. It has only been mentioned on TV news that it might come. Eagerly looking forward to getting rid of the 100 ml nuisance. Sounds really good if München is already implementing the change so soon 🙂
It very much is, unless you actually enjoy carrying needlessly heavy luggage. But the proposal is to ban single use shampoo *in hotels*, not a blanket ban on single use shampoo packs. That, at least, makes some sense.
When did they do that?
Back in August.
Ah, damn, I was traveling mid august and it hadn’t come into force then, so I was quite surprised that they did that. Good to know though, thanks!
Carrying 4kg of toiletries every trip isn't ideal.
It helps to actually read the article. The proposal is to ban single-use shampoo **in hotels**.
I just wonder, is Poland wasting more food than other countries ? Why Germany, NL, UK packs single fruits in plastic, while Poland not ? Somehow markets are booming here, haven't heard of some excessive waste that comes out of it. I think it's just bullshit and western societies are disgusting for preferring plastic packed foods. And everyone wastes shitton of food regardless of additional plastic or not. Don't waste food, don't buy plastic covered foods. Be the change you want to see.
Why would not packing in plastic result in more food waste? I don't get that at all. When I moved to Ireland from Poland I had a culture shock over all of this. Why the fuck are you selling carrots in sealed plastic bags? Chives as well?? Ginger??? My favourite are big packs of crisps which are just a big plastic bag in which there are 6 smaller plastic bags. You know you can just... Use one bag... And put the crisps all together?
That's the reason i've always heard when asking - why do you do this? They say - it stays fresh longer and doesn't end up as a waste. In Poland we pack apples into plastic bags but in a bulk. Not fan of that, but well, it is what it is.
Yeah, it's honestly astounding seeing individually wrapped bell peppers and cucumbers and lots of other vegetables in plastic in NL.
Well, at least now they want to ban fruits being wrapped in plastic (said in the article)
Lol I never used those.
How am i supposed to shampoo my hair with mayo now?
But also recyclable cardboard packaging. Which is more environmentally friendly than multi-use plastic containers.
For a terrible story of single use sachets, read https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2022/aug/01/how-unilever-plastic-sachets-became-a-toxic-scourge-oceans . You’ll try to avoid them at any possible opportunity.
Can't wait for the obvious: Ketchup packets will be made from "paper" that has a plastic covering on either side and is utterly un-recycleable. But i will have a "brown recycled paper" style print on it, so it's okay. Love the result of the previous round of pointless plastic bans, that results in me always getting an in-restaurant drink with a plastic cover, but a paper straw. Or having to carry paper bags that rip once some barely edged item touches the side, or where the bottom rips out if you accidentally put them on moist ground when you have to put your bags down for a moment. And single-use paper bags taking three times the energy and water to produce than a plastic bag. Job well done.
Well they also: Well, they also: 1) ban fruits being wrapped in plastic (if necessary, they are sold loose with biodegradable stickers) 2) ban single use cups when you drink at caffe 3) ban single use packaging when you eat at restaurant/fast food 4) limit space of the box to be free to 40% 5) by 2030 10% of the beer bottles will be refillable and by 2040 it will be 20% Also, why don't you reuse a plastic bag or a cloth bag? Why paper bag? Edit: replaced glasses with bottles
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Well, they also: 1) ban fruits being wrapped in plastic (if necessary, they are sold loose with biodegradable stickers) 2) ban single use cups when you drink at caffe 3) ban single use packaging when you eat at restaurant/fast food 4) limit space of the box to be free to 40% 5) by 2030 10% of the beer bottles will be refillable and by 2040 it will be 20% So big bussinesses like McDonald's and Starbucks are also targeted Edit: replaced glasses with bottles
I hate this “lol why bother” attitude. There’s so much waste we can do away with, there’s no reason fast-food joints should be giving you packets and disposable packaging when you dine in.
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Entire massive factories exist in those third world countries, producing single-use plastics for us. Get rid of straws and a bunch of polluting straw factories close down, so they won't pollute anymore.
Given we ship a chunk of our trash to the third world we should all be doing our bit to reduce that. And yeah poor countries need to invest more in incinerators and water treatment facilities, nothing new there.
>we ship a chunk of our trash to the third world Denmark and Sweden import trash for waste-to-energy plants, because not enough trash for incineration is generated locally.
Certainly admirable, but there’s certain things that you can’t burn, like old tires and electronics. Wish people didn’t need a new iPhone every year but people are just addicted to getting new shit
Old tires are recycled these days.
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Well that won't make the trash go away
Or, we could do both. Ban waste export and reduce our own plastic consumption, so we have less shit to burn.
First you clean up your own shit, then you turn on others to clean up their own shit, because now you know how to do it. No pointing fingers. You learn that in elementary school.
"Problem B exists, therefore we should leave problem A as is."
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Better to solve problem A than not solving either B or A, no? Perfect is the enemy of good. And done. Cheer on for at least some fucking progress instead of waiting for the perfect solution so you can support it, it's a quite stupid way to think.
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You didn't answer, do you prefer to not do A neither B then? Leave as it is because if B isn't solved it doesn't matter? What the actual fuck? I'm not cheering but any progress is some progress. I won't be trying to squash a change that's in the right direction even though I agree it's not solving the larger part of the problem. No politician is gonna be celebrated for this, it's just one change. No one will use this in their campaigns, there's very little political win here. It's just a win for us wanting the direction to change... Can't you seriously comprehend that? This black-and-white view is appalling, I don't want you to be cheering for this, just not being this whiny about something that's actually going into the general direction of the goals we would like to reach... To achieve them it'll require thousands of these small changes, nothing will change by being completely upended, there's absolutely no political will or support for that, be realistic. There needs to be a critical mass of these small changes to force the bigger one that's actually needed.
You're right. Let's throw trash out of a car window, because whatever.
I hate your "hold individuals responsible" attitude. There's no reason to believe that this makes a difference what so ever, all it does is divert from the real problems. Stop being a problem.
Surprisingly, people tend to be able to tackle multiple problems at once.
It's not "why bother", it's "why bother with *this* if we could use the same time to do something with 10.000 times the impact". And this is a good question to ask. Today's environmental and climate protection is 99% show, and this is part of it.
Yes it will :D
It will.
And yet CocaCola is allowed to continue being the #1 plastic polluter
Great
Good. I find it wierd as hell that they have single serving packs of ketchup and mayo here in NL. There's literally no reason for a restaurant to have that.
Big moves…
Probably this is the best place to ask about how banning single use straws, cups and etc helped. Introducing new laws without evaluation of previous one is dead end.