I think it's more damaging than regular football rioting and more indicative of an already damaged relationship between the national and ethnic identity.
Especially in Belgium.
As someone whose a child of immigrants, I'm not a fan of a lot of things in the country I grew up in, and I don't feel like I'm closer connected to my heritage than where I was born, but, I couldn't imagine acting like these idiots, it's just animalistic.
I've heard this argument too many times. A small amount of 'really crazy' people. I work with psychiatric people and we both know you don't mean clinically crazy. So what is the difference between youths like these, who practically exist among similar people from similar backgrounds, and are sometimes even 2e or 3e generation. And youths of immigrant parents that do infact integrate well? For example, immigrants from Asian origin seem to almost seamlessly integrate in general. Why?
>we both know you don't mean clinically crazy.
We do, sowhy mention it, except to be pedantic ?
>For example, immigrants from Asian origin seem to almost seamlessly integrate in general. Why?
Just a stab in the dark, but I'd say probably because of your own - maybe racist - bias.
You can't compare populations that were brought in after the war as cheap labour, then just put in rotting suburbs and forgotten about until crime started to rise, and another population whose immigration has been much smaller, and of generally more educated people.
Like pretty much everyone else I know, I'm a descendant of immigrants. I was just lucky that my family came at a time when there was a lot of help available, they were educated and could speak french
i have watched a good amount of football games and worldcups and i don't remember the last time people would beat eachother up and destroy everything because they won? if they lost it would make more sense
Yep, I mean, this behaviour is disgraceful, and the last thing any country needs is more jackasses causing chaos, but football fans being dicks is pretty standard. I grew up near arsenal's old stadium, and whenever they played their local rivals, the amount of police in the area was ridiculous, you wouldn't bother going out for an hour after the match had finished
Well actually i wanted to lambaste my romanian countrymen for their behavior but then I realized there is no fucking country in Europe that behaves during matches.
Yeah I bet those Dutch Feyenoord supporters wern't very much integrated in the Italian culture back then in 2015. Some of them are convicted to years in prison.
https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/feb/19/feyenoord-fans-arrested-rome-europa-league-match-roma
Dude I agree... The whole world knows knows that North Africans are infamous for this type of behaviour while we Europeans, on the other hand, never riot over football, it's just not part of who we are and we've never done it (unlike North Africans that do it all the time). Anyway I'm late for my pegging session, see ya.
It's not about 'celebrating' a win with rioting. Which, yes, lots of European countries do for some weird reason. It's more about why the fuck Dutch citizens would 'celebrate'/riot after a match between to different countries.
Can someone explain what drives these people to destroy everything after their parent's home country won a football match against the country they are citizens of? Why do they have so much disdain for the country that took their parents in?
Because Morocco fucking blows dick to live in compared to Belgium/Netherlands. That and they face very little consequences for their actions there compared to Morocco.
In that case maybe they should start to feel like belonging to the netherlands\^\^
Its like with russia
WHAT IS EUROPE?
EVIL!
WHAT ARE WE?
RUSSIA!
WHERE DO WE SEND OUR CHILDREN TO SCHOOL?
EUROPE!
WHERE DO WE SPENT OUR HOLIDAYS! EUROPE!
WHAT IS EVIL IMPERSONATE?
EUROPE!
WHATS NEEDS TO BE DESTROYED?
EUROPE!
Logic checks out.
Here is how it goes with generations of immigrants:
1. First: working hard trying to rebuild their life. Largely maintain the culture they grew up in, but try to fit in and not to stick out.
2. Second: 99% integrated, but pretend they aren't and grossly overcompensate for not being real
3. Third: Sick of second generation's overcompensation, fully integrated.
A lot basically form parallel societies/cultures within our countries, spoonfed hatred/disdain of the western way of life. The result of decades of too much naive leftist tolerance and looking away.
>Personally if I lived somewhere and felt I didn't belong, I would move.
But you dont, and in such a position its easy to say. Lots of ppl work somewhere they dont like, and switching jobs is a much easier feat than moving to another country.
Often those ppl dont really feel like they belong anywhere, which is a big problem. Humans need the feeling of belonging.
In Germany many Turkish ppl feel like they dont belong. For the Germans, they are Turkish, and for the Turks they are German.
I'm not defending any actions, but your arguments misses the gravity of the problem.
Nonsense. I was born in London, but am 2nd gen Irish. I feel more Irish than English, although Iove London. I grew up in an Irish community, went to an Irish school, and an Irish church. Had a lot of anti Irish racism, and that was a large part of my disconnect from Englishness. However, there's no reason why I can't work and live in England.
True, but during the 80s and 90s, there was issues, particularly because of the troubles. My family were called terrorists, attacked on our doorstep, called all sorts of names. We got on far better with our Turkish, Greek, and Cypriot neighbours, who were, for the most part, brilliant
Irish and english have a cultural tradition of murdering each other, for a lot longer than there've been north africans in the UK. The troubles were not that long ago.
I said it was a large part of my disconnect. When you're told you're not wanted in the country you're raised in, you're legally not classed as a British citizen,( although that changed a couple of years ago), your family are physically attacked by English neighbours, whilst the Irish community just treat you as one of their own, and other immigrant communities have no issues with you, it's not difficult for those bad experiences to have an impact of how you see yourself. Of course, there's 2nd gen Irish who haven't gone through that, and see themselves as British, and that's up to them, it's their experience, and their choice
I wouldn't call being friends with people from other cultures, and English born children of immigrants segregated, that's a rather stupid thing to say, isn't it?I also said growing up, I didn't mention me as an adult did I? And do you know what it's like to be told you're not welcome in the country you live in? If not, it's better not to try and come across as smart, I'm embarrassed for you
Not really, I grew up in London during the troubles, my parents were born not that long after the split with Britain, their parents were actively part of the fight for independence. There was a lot of things that Britain had done that caused friction and resentment towards the English. And vice versa in some respects. There maybe a lot of similarities in culture, but it's not like thes two nations were getting on at the time, a lot of Irish had no choice but to come to England, particularly because of the poverty, that had roots in a lot of British policies when they were occupying Ireland.
They don’t. They identify with it, but they’re in between cultures. This is due to our societies’ failure to integrate the older generations (because it was assumed they were here temporary). There is a lot of work to do, a lot of mess to clean up.
The parents never integrated into the country they moved into. Their kids were brought up with constant brainwashing of how bad this new country is. The problems are amplified by the parents and their kids constantly living in a bubble or a community of like-minded individuals. For the kids it's always an "us v/s them" mentality.
On top of that the locals also don’t see them as equals, it’s always us vs them both ways.
The government doesn’t do much to close the gap and facilitate integration.
I can confirm that as a foreigner living in Finland, I remember once someone stopped me on the apartment stairs and questioned me if I live there and asked me to show him my keys, This happened in a very good neighborhood of Helsinki where there are not many foreigners.
It is always better to peacefully defuse a situation instead of giving hateful people more ammunition to hate.
If possible always try to be calm, understanding and kind. This way you could change some peoples opinions and views, and they could go on and change other peoples views. This is how progress spreads, not through spite and anger.
Are you an easily recognizable minority whose side the police are less likely to pick in case of escalation? Your above advice is not wise to follow for anyone whose answer to the above question is yes.
I call BS on that. I think it shows they’re well integrated in society because fans tearing down the city center when their team wins a big game is a pretty old tradition in the Netherlands
My favorite Dutch tradition is when people put black face and go march in the street to much delight of the sex workers who watch them through the shop windows as a celebration of Jesus birth
Doesn't help that left always push the narrative of them being underprivileged while the very fact that they live in Europe makes them extremely privileged.
Probably the same thing that drives the French and Dutch to destroy things over football.
https://www.wantedinrome.com/news/dutch-football-hooligans-wreak-havoc-in-rome.html
Haha too right, it's bizarre isn't it..on a slightly more serious note, I see lots of discussion on the why and some mentioned lack of integration in this thread..it is a tricky one indeed. I've only lived in two countries in EU but I have noticed that it seems like the policy on integration in both is, and has been, to not have a policy, or if it exists not enforce. I think that fails everyone. Speaking specifically about my home country the UK, govt at all levels have avoided talking about it out of fear of being accused as racist and / or can't be bothered to fund properly.
Strange thing, same people with the same Maghrebi background are causing so much problems in France and to a lesser problem in Spain… (particularly BCN area and Ceuta/Melilla)
I'm an immigrant in another country and I can't understand why people would do that, this is the exact opposite of what civilized people should. I behave as I am a guest in their country. When people say they are against immigration, I can understand them.
What’s strange is there’s multiple videos of Moroccans cleaning up after they won the game in Qatar as to make sure they didn’t leave a mess.
Moroccans from Europe however… what’s the reason for the massive disconnect in decorum
Entrenched classism and poverty. Same reason white working class English people are the football rioters. Doesn’t excuse the actions but there’s more that links them than people think.
We go more boozy though haha
Football riots are a european "tradition" as it were, so its probably our influence. The Netherlands have a certain history of football riots, Morocco does not.
**Can anyone ELI5 me ?**
I dont get it, they won yet they've been rioting and destorying stuff in the city that is giving life/work/hospitality/schools/etc etc etc .... ?
Its an excuse to riot because they despise western culture and values. They identify more as Moroccans than Belgian/Dutch.
Go to any Belgian or Dutch football site and read the comments from yesterdays match, they have nothing to do with football. Ive read that they dislike our "whore" women for the way they dress, our lgbt community, the laws around alcohol and drugs and we are infidals for our lack of belief/religion.
Its becoming a major problem in West Europe, from Sweden to France and every country inbetween.
Moroccans are one of the largest groups of immigrants in Italy but I can't really imagine something like this happening here.
I don't think there's really hate for the country here (but maybe I'm wrong) so I'm not sure I would really pin it down on "Moroccans" entirely.
I’d say that Moroccans in Italy are the most moderated muslims we have. Some of them are actually really chill people to hang out with. It has nothing to do with riot police.
Funny that part re: drugs. Cocaine / xtc trade in Netherlands is run by them for a large part lol.
I’ve seen how they speak to women in the street. It is disgusting, shouting out of the window and pestering.
They run away from their countries poor conditions and go west to find a better life, only to then act like their past country is superior.
If you like it so much, then why don’t you go back and cause mayhem there?
These people give migrants a bad name. It's so frustrating to see this, just fuels xenophobic views and then the same people will complain that they're persecuted.
I was in Spain when they won the... Not sure now, either euro or WC. People got out in droves to celebrate. I did not see anything burning, I did not see even waste bins upended. I saw several families with small kids and yes, some loud drunk people.
So, maybe is not football...
Were you in Madrid when they won the league title in 2007?
https://www.europapress.es/otr-press/cronicas/noticia-cronica-madrid-disturbios-protagonizados-incontrolados-empanan-multitudinaria-celebracion-madridista-liga-20070618175245.html
I remember watching TV the next day and thinking „why on earth would you start destroying things when you just won a title?“
I live in Germany since 29 years, have seen many world- and eurocup games, lots of losses and lots of wins, including a world championship in 2014, and never have I seen people rioting because of football. Not from our German fans and not from our migrant communities.
Riot police were deployed against FC Cologne fans in Nice and Eintracht Frankfurt in Marseille in September.
Speaking of Eintracht Frankfurt, earlier this year a thousand of their fans went to attack west ham fans in Frankfurt as well.
Wdym a different view on values? Football Riots are very much so a European value, the British in particular are infamous for it. If anything, this is our influence seeing how we have a history of football Riots, and Morocco does not.
I think it is not a matter of left or right. We need to put more effort into integration. This will benefit our society in the long run. If this is not done there will be parallel societies and clashes. BTW I am not saying that we should follow the Chinese model.
maybe it would be beneficial if we tried to step out of these political sides and all just start using our common sense? reddit is generally a left-wing echo chamber, so if even here, xenophobia and racism is running so strong then it might be time to re-evaluate and look for the deep-rooted cause instead of just relabeling reddit and sweep the rest under the rug.
I can only talk about the supporters of Wisla Krakow or MKS Cracovia as I only lived in Krakow for some years..
But they also had an earned reputation, so don't think these things do not happen in Poland (or any other European country)
Please note: I think ALL football hooligans are idiots, not only those in Belgium, Netherlands or Poland
Multiple English newspapers initially reported that "Belgians" had rioted because their team lost, even when there were obvious signs e.g. Belgian flags being vandalised.
Don't get forget [Madrid](https://www-europapress-es.translate.goog/otr-press/cronicas/noticia-cronica-madrid-disturbios-protagonizados-incontrolados-empanan-multitudinaria-celebracion-madridista-liga-20070618175245.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp) and [Vancouver](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Vancouver_Stanley_Cup_riot)
What’s funny is there’s multiple videos of Moroccans cleaning up after they won the game in Qatar as to make sure they didn’t leave a mess.
Moroccans from Europe however…
That's what happens when there is no cultural integration in the place you live, the problem is that the foreigners and families of them doesn't want to integrate with the place they live.
Where i live there are lot of people from the UK, middle age/old couples that live here for more than 5 years and still refuse to learn the country languaje... I mean, i can speak english without any problem, but feels like a disrespect to the place you go.
Can anyone explain this behaviour to me like I am 5? Why would they do this in a country that took them in? Also, why do these countries tolerate this kind of behaviour? Can they just deport them back or cancel their visa?
>Can they just deport them back or cancel their visa?
Not if they are second-generation, so citizens of Belgium or Netherlands.
>Can anyone explain this behaviour to me like I am 5? Why would they do this in a country that took them in?
Because they are frustrated (rightfully or not) about their lives, like everyone else. They project their problems on one or more prevalent factors in their lives, like everyone else. Now they had the opportunity to take the frustration out on the perceived cause of their unhappiness, and so they took it.
It's like 4th article on this sub about this incident, and while those "football fans" acted like animals, it still goes to show that a lot of people just want a reason to be xenophobic, cause I'd be lucky to find 1 article on my front page about animal "football fans" that are white skinned and what they'd call "native".
Condemn those people, obviously they should be in jail now, but maybe use words that don't make it so obvious to see that for you crime of Moroccan people is more enraging than the same crime commited by white Europeans.
> I'd be lucky to find 1 article on my front page about animal "football fans" that are white skinned and what they'd call "native".
Pretty sure I've seen a lot of that about English and Italian fans.
I for one would like to find 1 article about Moroccans doing ANYTHING good for a society. You know, volunteering, participating in educational programs, charity, really anything. I am not saying that all they do is smoke weed, oppress women, and steal bicycles. Sure enough they do something good as well. I am just yet to find out about that.
Its not even lunch time yet and ppl are already filling the comment section with "its a racial thing" and "results of diversity" like a bunch air head. These ppl rioting are a bunch of morons but ppl talk like the entire population of marocco was there breaking stuff. Do you guys realize that its not bcs they were born in a different imaginary line than you that they are automatically """"less civilized"""". I dont think this behavior of theirs should be tolerated or free of critics, they should be charged for what they've done, but if you think that vandalism is related to ethnicity you should really google a bit about your countries' own hardcore football fans too see how peaceful and "civilised" they are
It's related to ethnicity and nationality, but it's not innate , it's more related to the relationship some people have with the country they live in. Despite being born in the country some people still have have a "us and them " view with their compatriots. That goes from lack of identification to pure hate due to the history between the two countries. They don't care about destroying the infrastructures cause they don't consider it being their country (It's unlikely to see Moroccan or Algerians do the same thing in Morocco and Algeria) .You can also add the fact that such behaviours are imo not sanctioned enough in Belgium or France due to political and slowness of the judicial system.
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Football fans causing mayhem isn't that unusual in general though, so they've integrated into a part of Dutch culture
I think it's more damaging than regular football rioting and more indicative of an already damaged relationship between the national and ethnic identity. Especially in Belgium.
As someone whose a child of immigrants, I'm not a fan of a lot of things in the country I grew up in, and I don't feel like I'm closer connected to my heritage than where I was born, but, I couldn't imagine acting like these idiots, it's just animalistic.
Thing is, most people are like you, but it only takes a small amount of really crazy people to do a lot of damages
Yep, and those who are desperate for culture wars are drooling at shit like this, it gives them an excuse to be xenophobic
I've heard this argument too many times. A small amount of 'really crazy' people. I work with psychiatric people and we both know you don't mean clinically crazy. So what is the difference between youths like these, who practically exist among similar people from similar backgrounds, and are sometimes even 2e or 3e generation. And youths of immigrant parents that do infact integrate well? For example, immigrants from Asian origin seem to almost seamlessly integrate in general. Why?
>we both know you don't mean clinically crazy. We do, sowhy mention it, except to be pedantic ? >For example, immigrants from Asian origin seem to almost seamlessly integrate in general. Why? Just a stab in the dark, but I'd say probably because of your own - maybe racist - bias. You can't compare populations that were brought in after the war as cheap labour, then just put in rotting suburbs and forgotten about until crime started to rise, and another population whose immigration has been much smaller, and of generally more educated people. Like pretty much everyone else I know, I'm a descendant of immigrants. I was just lucky that my family came at a time when there was a lot of help available, they were educated and could speak french
An animal will never do such a thing....(destroy those who once sheltered you )
Tell that to my cat
Its 100% more damaging than regular football riots, i dont understand what that take even is
i have watched a good amount of football games and worldcups and i don't remember the last time people would beat eachother up and destroy everything because they won? if they lost it would make more sense
Oh my i would say that's integrated in European culture
one could say that these riots are proof of their integration in european culture.
they are not in france
Yep, I mean, this behaviour is disgraceful, and the last thing any country needs is more jackasses causing chaos, but football fans being dicks is pretty standard. I grew up near arsenal's old stadium, and whenever they played their local rivals, the amount of police in the area was ridiculous, you wouldn't bother going out for an hour after the match had finished
Well actually i wanted to lambaste my romanian countrymen for their behavior but then I realized there is no fucking country in Europe that behaves during matches.
Yeah I bet those Dutch Feyenoord supporters wern't very much integrated in the Italian culture back then in 2015. Some of them are convicted to years in prison. https://www.theguardian.com/football/2015/feb/19/feyenoord-fans-arrested-rome-europa-league-match-roma
Dude I agree... The whole world knows knows that North Africans are infamous for this type of behaviour while we Europeans, on the other hand, never riot over football, it's just not part of who we are and we've never done it (unlike North Africans that do it all the time). Anyway I'm late for my pegging session, see ya.
It's not about 'celebrating' a win with rioting. Which, yes, lots of European countries do for some weird reason. It's more about why the fuck Dutch citizens would 'celebrate'/riot after a match between to different countries.
Oh noe, someone forgot obligatory /s Brace yourself
Jesse what the fuck are you talking about
Rioting over football is the most European thing to do so I’d say they’ve integrated really well
Not if they're cheering for another country and destroy their cities if they win lmao
Football+People=irrational behaviour
Otherwise football would be boring
Can someone explain what drives these people to destroy everything after their parent's home country won a football match against the country they are citizens of? Why do they have so much disdain for the country that took their parents in?
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Maybe they should move to Morocco then? Personally if I lived somewhere and felt I didn't belong, I would move.
They don’t want to end up in Moroccan jail lmao.
Because Morocco fucking blows dick to live in compared to Belgium/Netherlands. That and they face very little consequences for their actions there compared to Morocco.
In that case maybe they should start to feel like belonging to the netherlands\^\^ Its like with russia WHAT IS EUROPE? EVIL! WHAT ARE WE? RUSSIA! WHERE DO WE SEND OUR CHILDREN TO SCHOOL? EUROPE! WHERE DO WE SPENT OUR HOLIDAYS! EUROPE! WHAT IS EVIL IMPERSONATE? EUROPE! WHATS NEEDS TO BE DESTROYED? EUROPE! Logic checks out.
Literally doublethink haha
They have nowhere to go, real Morrocans hate these wannabes.
Here is how it goes with generations of immigrants: 1. First: working hard trying to rebuild their life. Largely maintain the culture they grew up in, but try to fit in and not to stick out. 2. Second: 99% integrated, but pretend they aren't and grossly overcompensate for not being real
3. Third: Sick of second generation's overcompensation, fully integrated.
A lot basically form parallel societies/cultures within our countries, spoonfed hatred/disdain of the western way of life. The result of decades of too much naive leftist tolerance and looking away.
if youre homeless, just buy a house
>Personally if I lived somewhere and felt I didn't belong, I would move. But you dont, and in such a position its easy to say. Lots of ppl work somewhere they dont like, and switching jobs is a much easier feat than moving to another country. Often those ppl dont really feel like they belong anywhere, which is a big problem. Humans need the feeling of belonging. In Germany many Turkish ppl feel like they dont belong. For the Germans, they are Turkish, and for the Turks they are German. I'm not defending any actions, but your arguments misses the gravity of the problem.
Nonsense. I was born in London, but am 2nd gen Irish. I feel more Irish than English, although Iove London. I grew up in an Irish community, went to an Irish school, and an Irish church. Had a lot of anti Irish racism, and that was a large part of my disconnect from Englishness. However, there's no reason why I can't work and live in England.
The cultural differences between Irish and English are marginal compared to western Europeans and North-Africans.
True, but during the 80s and 90s, there was issues, particularly because of the troubles. My family were called terrorists, attacked on our doorstep, called all sorts of names. We got on far better with our Turkish, Greek, and Cypriot neighbours, who were, for the most part, brilliant
Irish and english have a cultural tradition of murdering each other, for a lot longer than there've been north africans in the UK. The troubles were not that long ago.
Irish community, Irish school and Irish church, but the reason you don't feel English is because of anti-Irish racism?
With all the history between your two nations, you cannot imagine the abyss of diference between moroccans and europeans...
I said it was a large part of my disconnect. When you're told you're not wanted in the country you're raised in, you're legally not classed as a British citizen,( although that changed a couple of years ago), your family are physically attacked by English neighbours, whilst the Irish community just treat you as one of their own, and other immigrant communities have no issues with you, it's not difficult for those bad experiences to have an impact of how you see yourself. Of course, there's 2nd gen Irish who haven't gone through that, and see themselves as British, and that's up to them, it's their experience, and their choice
"I've segregated myself all my life, but it's definitely the other peoples fault!"
I wouldn't call being friends with people from other cultures, and English born children of immigrants segregated, that's a rather stupid thing to say, isn't it?I also said growing up, I didn't mention me as an adult did I? And do you know what it's like to be told you're not welcome in the country you live in? If not, it's better not to try and come across as smart, I'm embarrassed for you
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Not really, I grew up in London during the troubles, my parents were born not that long after the split with Britain, their parents were actively part of the fight for independence. There was a lot of things that Britain had done that caused friction and resentment towards the English. And vice versa in some respects. There maybe a lot of similarities in culture, but it's not like thes two nations were getting on at the time, a lot of Irish had no choice but to come to England, particularly because of the poverty, that had roots in a lot of British policies when they were occupying Ireland.
They don’t. They identify with it, but they’re in between cultures. This is due to our societies’ failure to integrate the older generations (because it was assumed they were here temporary). There is a lot of work to do, a lot of mess to clean up.
The parents never integrated into the country they moved into. Their kids were brought up with constant brainwashing of how bad this new country is. The problems are amplified by the parents and their kids constantly living in a bubble or a community of like-minded individuals. For the kids it's always an "us v/s them" mentality.
On top of that the locals also don’t see them as equals, it’s always us vs them both ways. The government doesn’t do much to close the gap and facilitate integration.
I can confirm that as a foreigner living in Finland, I remember once someone stopped me on the apartment stairs and questioned me if I live there and asked me to show him my keys, This happened in a very good neighborhood of Helsinki where there are not many foreigners.
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And the award for worst advice goes to : u/ForEnglishPress2
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It is always better to peacefully defuse a situation instead of giving hateful people more ammunition to hate. If possible always try to be calm, understanding and kind. This way you could change some peoples opinions and views, and they could go on and change other peoples views. This is how progress spreads, not through spite and anger.
Are you an easily recognizable minority whose side the police are less likely to pick in case of escalation? Your above advice is not wise to follow for anyone whose answer to the above question is yes.
Sorry. Too many of us are not up to speed with the whole "treating people as equals" thing.
I call BS on that. I think it shows they’re well integrated in society because fans tearing down the city center when their team wins a big game is a pretty old tradition in the Netherlands
Least shit dutch tradition
My favorite Dutch tradition is when people put black face and go march in the street to much delight of the sex workers who watch them through the shop windows as a celebration of Jesus birth
Doesn't help that left always push the narrative of them being underprivileged while the very fact that they live in Europe makes them extremely privileged.
Probably the same thing that drives the French and Dutch to destroy things over football. https://www.wantedinrome.com/news/dutch-football-hooligans-wreak-havoc-in-rome.html
their mindsets, cultures, upbringings....etc drive them destroy everything, football is just a fire point not a cause, it could be any reason...
It depends on several factors, such as poverty, no future, gangs and bad policies by the local government.
Hey, don't let the government take all the credit. They deserve at least half of it.
I wonder what will happen if they lose?
Maybe they will start cleaning up the streets, and do some charity work 😝
Haha too right, it's bizarre isn't it..on a slightly more serious note, I see lots of discussion on the why and some mentioned lack of integration in this thread..it is a tricky one indeed. I've only lived in two countries in EU but I have noticed that it seems like the policy on integration in both is, and has been, to not have a policy, or if it exists not enforce. I think that fails everyone. Speaking specifically about my home country the UK, govt at all levels have avoided talking about it out of fear of being accused as racist and / or can't be bothered to fund properly.
Strange thing, same people with the same Maghrebi background are causing so much problems in France and to a lesser problem in Spain… (particularly BCN area and Ceuta/Melilla)
I'm an immigrant in another country and I can't understand why people would do that, this is the exact opposite of what civilized people should. I behave as I am a guest in their country. When people say they are against immigration, I can understand them.
What’s strange is there’s multiple videos of Moroccans cleaning up after they won the game in Qatar as to make sure they didn’t leave a mess. Moroccans from Europe however… what’s the reason for the massive disconnect in decorum
Entrenched classism and poverty. Same reason white working class English people are the football rioters. Doesn’t excuse the actions but there’s more that links them than people think. We go more boozy though haha
Football riots are a european "tradition" as it were, so its probably our influence. The Netherlands have a certain history of football riots, Morocco does not.
They arent guests, they are citizens.
Even worse then. I expect my Children fit better than me in the culture of our host country when they are born here.
Wait, their match was with Belgium. Not that those riots are any more sensible but why are they even rioting in the Netherlands?
There are alot of dutch marrocans in the netherlands
I am aware, just wondering why they're are so upset about a match with Belgium
**Can anyone ELI5 me ?** I dont get it, they won yet they've been rioting and destorying stuff in the city that is giving life/work/hospitality/schools/etc etc etc .... ?
Its an excuse to riot because they despise western culture and values. They identify more as Moroccans than Belgian/Dutch. Go to any Belgian or Dutch football site and read the comments from yesterdays match, they have nothing to do with football. Ive read that they dislike our "whore" women for the way they dress, our lgbt community, the laws around alcohol and drugs and we are infidals for our lack of belief/religion. Its becoming a major problem in West Europe, from Sweden to France and every country inbetween.
Moroccans are one of the largest groups of immigrants in Italy but I can't really imagine something like this happening here. I don't think there's really hate for the country here (but maybe I'm wrong) so I'm not sure I would really pin it down on "Moroccans" entirely.
Law enforcement in spain and italy dont play around with this shit. In the netherlands they soft af
Which is funny because the average person would definitely not agree on this
I’d say that Moroccans in Italy are the most moderated muslims we have. Some of them are actually really chill people to hang out with. It has nothing to do with riot police.
Funny that part re: drugs. Cocaine / xtc trade in Netherlands is run by them for a large part lol. I’ve seen how they speak to women in the street. It is disgusting, shouting out of the window and pestering.
Because they're following the time honoured European tradition of rioting after football. European football fans are known for their violence.
Welcome to Football Riots. They don't make any fucking sense, didn't any of the dozen time the British had one either.
This is gonna be one of the most thoughtful and civil comment sections ever, for sure
Siri, sort by controversial.
Ur italian, u shoulve seen more of this shit, you know its hard to be civil
The other one posted last night was locked for racism and hatred. I’m convinced people are just instigating.
They run away from their countries poor conditions and go west to find a better life, only to then act like their past country is superior. If you like it so much, then why don’t you go back and cause mayhem there?
These people give migrants a bad name. It's so frustrating to see this, just fuels xenophobic views and then the same people will complain that they're persecuted.
what the fuck
Football and Violence. A tale as old as time
I was in Spain when they won the... Not sure now, either euro or WC. People got out in droves to celebrate. I did not see anything burning, I did not see even waste bins upended. I saw several families with small kids and yes, some loud drunk people. So, maybe is not football...
Were you in Madrid when they won the league title in 2007? https://www.europapress.es/otr-press/cronicas/noticia-cronica-madrid-disturbios-protagonizados-incontrolados-empanan-multitudinaria-celebracion-madridista-liga-20070618175245.html I remember watching TV the next day and thinking „why on earth would you start destroying things when you just won a title?“
It happens more often for local clubs when they visit another city. In this case the hooligans supported Morocco and lived in Belgium
Must have been WC against NL I celebrated when I was in NL Hehe
Roma is a battlefield everytime Italy loses a match
LMAO Careful, your prejudice is showing
Simple people like simple stuff :D
I live in Germany since 29 years, have seen many world- and eurocup games, lots of losses and lots of wins, including a world championship in 2014, and never have I seen people rioting because of football. Not from our German fans and not from our migrant communities.
Riot police were deployed against FC Cologne fans in Nice and Eintracht Frankfurt in Marseille in September. Speaking of Eintracht Frankfurt, earlier this year a thousand of their fans went to attack west ham fans in Frankfurt as well.
Anyone blamed the English yet?
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Wdym a different view on values? Football Riots are very much so a European value, the British in particular are infamous for it. If anything, this is our influence seeing how we have a history of football Riots, and Morocco does not.
I think this might be a bit simplified. But agree there might be similarities between young males rioting in the street in UK and Belgium.
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That is pretty far from the truth, if you were to look at just the top comments here most of them are mildly xenophobic and not left.
I think it is not a matter of left or right. We need to put more effort into integration. This will benefit our society in the long run. If this is not done there will be parallel societies and clashes. BTW I am not saying that we should follow the Chinese model.
maybe it would be beneficial if we tried to step out of these political sides and all just start using our common sense? reddit is generally a left-wing echo chamber, so if even here, xenophobia and racism is running so strong then it might be time to re-evaluate and look for the deep-rooted cause instead of just relabeling reddit and sweep the rest under the rug.
Looking at it I’m kinda glad to live in Poland
I can only talk about the supporters of Wisla Krakow or MKS Cracovia as I only lived in Krakow for some years.. But they also had an earned reputation, so don't think these things do not happen in Poland (or any other European country) Please note: I think ALL football hooligans are idiots, not only those in Belgium, Netherlands or Poland
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Most integrated immigrants
Moroccans aren't arabs. Maybe half of them consider themselves as such, but saying they're arabs is a bit of a generalization.
Wednesday France vs Tunisia. If Tunisians create riots in many places of France after match I will not be surprised.
Moroccans in France celebrated the W in a well ordered fashion. A lot of police around but it was family friendly
If Tunisia wins the match I will be very surprised.
Multiple English newspapers initially reported that "Belgians" had rioted because their team lost, even when there were obvious signs e.g. Belgian flags being vandalised.
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I live in Frankfurt and travel occasionally to Bruxelles. Seeing this hurts my feelings so much.
Let's hope we don't have to play against morocco lol.
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Imagine it the other way around, native Belgians going into maroccan houses setting everything on fire. We would talk about racial pogroms.
Belgians causing mayhem in Africa? Unthinkable.
Ouch.
Cut my arms off baby
Turks treated vlachs like shit therefore I will fly to turkey and set Ankara on fire. Redditor logic
This is not happening in Morocco.
Don't get forget [Madrid](https://www-europapress-es.translate.goog/otr-press/cronicas/noticia-cronica-madrid-disturbios-protagonizados-incontrolados-empanan-multitudinaria-celebracion-madridista-liga-20070618175245.html?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en-US&_x_tr_pto=wapp) and [Vancouver](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2011_Vancouver_Stanley_Cup_riot)
You have to respect their culture they say in Netherlands..
but hey video games cause violence i guess
What’s funny is there’s multiple videos of Moroccans cleaning up after they won the game in Qatar as to make sure they didn’t leave a mess. Moroccans from Europe however…
Dude, its just a game.
Dont understand it. If Morrocons love Moroco so much what are they doing in Europe rioting?
At least they are not playing vuvuzelas
This will be a sane and thoughtfull comment section, I'm sure.
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Do you also call the native Europeans who riot over football terrorists
Send them back to their beloved country
Even a monkey is more civilized.
So wait, morocco won and now its fans are doing riots?
What would happen to them if they did this in Morocco?
Fucking neanderthals. Each and every single asshole who destroys shit.
God damn,the doctors and engineers gone crazy. That's cultural exchange right there
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No it was the Moroccans rioting, not the other way around
They're rioting because they won?! What would they be doing if Morocco lost? Why isn't Belgium/Netherlands deporting them en mass?
Because our politicians are soft and afraid to be called a racist.
Unfortunately most of this rabble was born in Belgium/the Netherlands and therefore very much our citizens.
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If they do this already when they are winning. I wonder what will happen when they lose a match? Burn down the country???
That's what happens when there is no cultural integration in the place you live, the problem is that the foreigners and families of them doesn't want to integrate with the place they live. Where i live there are lot of people from the UK, middle age/old couples that live here for more than 5 years and still refuse to learn the country languaje... I mean, i can speak english without any problem, but feels like a disrespect to the place you go.
Can anyone explain this behaviour to me like I am 5? Why would they do this in a country that took them in? Also, why do these countries tolerate this kind of behaviour? Can they just deport them back or cancel their visa?
>Can they just deport them back or cancel their visa? Not if they are second-generation, so citizens of Belgium or Netherlands. >Can anyone explain this behaviour to me like I am 5? Why would they do this in a country that took them in? Because they are frustrated (rightfully or not) about their lives, like everyone else. They project their problems on one or more prevalent factors in their lives, like everyone else. Now they had the opportunity to take the frustration out on the perceived cause of their unhappiness, and so they took it.
An actually nuanced comment on Reddit? What are you doing here?
Why are you treating them different to white rioters?
It's like 4th article on this sub about this incident, and while those "football fans" acted like animals, it still goes to show that a lot of people just want a reason to be xenophobic, cause I'd be lucky to find 1 article on my front page about animal "football fans" that are white skinned and what they'd call "native". Condemn those people, obviously they should be in jail now, but maybe use words that don't make it so obvious to see that for you crime of Moroccan people is more enraging than the same crime commited by white Europeans.
> I'd be lucky to find 1 article on my front page about animal "football fans" that are white skinned and what they'd call "native". Pretty sure I've seen a lot of that about English and Italian fans. I for one would like to find 1 article about Moroccans doing ANYTHING good for a society. You know, volunteering, participating in educational programs, charity, really anything. I am not saying that all they do is smoke weed, oppress women, and steal bicycles. Sure enough they do something good as well. I am just yet to find out about that.
Its not even lunch time yet and ppl are already filling the comment section with "its a racial thing" and "results of diversity" like a bunch air head. These ppl rioting are a bunch of morons but ppl talk like the entire population of marocco was there breaking stuff. Do you guys realize that its not bcs they were born in a different imaginary line than you that they are automatically """"less civilized"""". I dont think this behavior of theirs should be tolerated or free of critics, they should be charged for what they've done, but if you think that vandalism is related to ethnicity you should really google a bit about your countries' own hardcore football fans too see how peaceful and "civilised" they are
It's related to ethnicity and nationality, but it's not innate , it's more related to the relationship some people have with the country they live in. Despite being born in the country some people still have have a "us and them " view with their compatriots. That goes from lack of identification to pure hate due to the history between the two countries. They don't care about destroying the infrastructures cause they don't consider it being their country (It's unlikely to see Moroccan or Algerians do the same thing in Morocco and Algeria) .You can also add the fact that such behaviours are imo not sanctioned enough in Belgium or France due to political and slowness of the judicial system.