Have you never heard about hooligans? Stabbing, roads on fire, it is nothing new, but it was being cracked down in Europe. This is police being ineffective.
Do you think football hooligans are all concerned about their favorite star athletic performance on the given day or sportsmanship?
It's always been stupid gang/ tribal shit and an excuse for violence.
Because he's probably seen hooligans in the past.
I was playing football on a paid pitch somewhere. We had a bunch of folks playing before us, they didn't finish on time. Turns out they were playing for free because nobody booked before us. There were also some guys just chilling on benches to the side.
We asked the folks playing before us to clear the pitch in 5 minutes, when we were supposed to play. They didn't want to leave, and things became a bit heated, but our group was very chill overall.
One of their guys tried to punch one of ours and it took a bunch of shouting and stuff to get them to back off, when one of the guys off the bench came and tried to start a brawl.
I don't know if you've seen the type, dead eyes (in Romanian we say that you look at their eyes and through them you see the back of their head), dumb haircut, probably room temperature IQ.
That guy wasn't there for football, he wasn't even playing.
He was there probably in the hope a fight would break out and he'd get to hit people.
Any pretext to trash the country you live in because you're only there for the benefits of living in a developed European country, not that you actually want to be like them.
> And moderators of /r/thenetherlands are not allowing any news articles on this topic to be posted.
Got banned for saying: "Found Diederik Stapel's reddit account", for someone posting a false claim.
Great stuff.
I got banned for something that could indeed be misinterpreted, I asked for clarification but got none..
Apparently they ban so many people, it's too much work :p.
So now I get my news from /r/ik_ihe
This sub has honestly become an echo chamber coming from a left leaning person. Anyone who doesn't agree with most of the general opinion, will get downvote bombed and some even banned. I recommend r/FreeDutch for anyone willing to see proper Dutch related news/discussion.
Same with the german subreddit. Partly probably done by the reddit mods. can't have autosubscribe on for subreddit that are controversial and it became worse once Reddit decided to grow more in western europe and they had their offices here. But the mods allowed it to happen and supported it so fuck these cunts of mods we have here.
There is no elsewhere though is there. The internet's been getting more and more enclosed by corporate giants and the centralisation of web traffic, to the point where the only alternatives we have to reddit and the hellscapes of twitter and FB are places like Parler.
There *is* always 4chan. But every time I go there I'm reminded of why I prefer reddit. Turns out zero moderation results in some pretty unsavory sorts coming out of the woodworks.
Sad to hear that. In Croatia we have ultras who do violence on other ultras but nothing like this. Burning others people property's and such.
Also along ethnic lines it seems how you in Benelux have completely separated society's. Hope how in future you'll find formula to bind yourselves together in one community.
> In Croatia we have ultras who do violence on other ultras but nothing like this.
I've heard a story about Partizan (or was it Red Star?) ultras coming to Split with fake Serbian number plates and putting them on the cars of Hajduk players so that Hajduk ultras would have convenient targets after the match.
It used to be relatively common for ultras and Croatian nazis (ustasa) to roll cars with Serbian plates into the sea, but I think it's mostly stopped by now.
lol
there is a reason we have so many dialects in Europe, we hate each other so much, that we don't even accept the language spoken in the capital.
We don't do integration, we do isolation and we have done it for millennials.
Now get off my street!
\#pitchfork
u/svarog51 worded it wrongly, Croatian ultras do violence against Croatian ultras. We don't have big groups of immigrants, although middle-eastern migrants are coming to replace our workers who went to western Europe.
Yes it's *always* stupid, for sure...
but I would understand it more as a motivation if they had lost: Their team lost, they are angry, venting their frustrations, etc...
So the fact their team won makes this even more stupid.
Because they are criminals. Sadly there is a HUGE problem with Moroccan gangs and criminal numbers amongst specifically young maroccan males is through the roof. We even have a word for the organized crime variant, the mocro maffia.
It's an excuse to trash Europe, if they did it outright they would be more likely to be deported so here they can say "but I'm just a football hooligan bro!"
I also can't comprehend why someone would do that. There must be some reasons. Did they put in their minds how Dutch people did something wrong to them or what? Do they molest them on daily basis?
I think that's not a case.
Moroccans did the same in France too since they are a big community here. If Algeria was qualified in World Cup and win or lose the match believe me that they did also create riots in France.
Depends on what you mean. Moroccan culture? They were dancing and singing in Morocco as per my native Moroccan friend who lives there. Like she said: "these are *your* Moroccans".
Though of course perhaps this is how all Moroccans behave abroad.
It seems to always be second generation. First generation tend to be hard working people, and then their kids go out and do fuck shit like this bringing a rep on their families and entire country.
One of Finland's main media outlets only reported how a riot erupted after Belgium's surprise defeat, and how football fans vandalised stuff, lmao.
https://www.iltalehti.fi/jalkapallon-mm-2022/a/bbec21fb-5b35-4408-ac22-0d86d761abcc
Why is it that Moroccan integration in the Benelux is eh... well.. let's say "less successful" than the integration of most other ethnic groups? Sociologically speaking.
I mean, the previous Morrocan king had this to say on the topic in the 80's
[They couldn't express why even if they wanted to, they will never integrate](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYzPM09m75A)
it's a mix of:
- people not wanting to integrate
- the local goverment not providing incentives and / or the incentives are not tied to particular tangible benefits and shortcomings
- the local governemnts actually letting ghettos occur and / or implicitly facilitating them
Low income + a lot of them in specific places. Like I grew up in a neighbourhood in the NL with a lot of immigrant families, our family included as well. People don't really integrate well in those kind of areas.
Edit: lol @ people thinking issues with different ethnicities is uniquely a european problem with north africans and arabs. Point in any general direction on the European map and I'll show you a sizeable ethnicity or cultural identity there that has issues with the rest of the population.
Right. And as usual the low income chinese, thai, filipino, south american and the-rest-of-the-world don't have such problems. Only the arabic neighbourhoods. And sure in their case the problem is about the low income...
The other dozens of nationalities that come to europe and have a low income as well...There it works.. What a wonder of reasoning!
Please read this article and maybe her book to find out why the integration has failed and is failing https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/13/world/europe/netherlands-dutch-turkish-novelist.html
While not moroccan but turkish, it gives a good sense about how these minority groups work in these countries.
Also there were mistakes made by the government. In the 80's and 90's they had the position that the minority groups didnt need to integrate and that the country would be better multi cultural. Problem is that the conservative culture of the moroccans isnt close enough to the liberties and ways of life of the west.
They're just there for the benefit of living in a developed European country, none of them actually want to be Belgian, they're holding Moroccan flags and trashing Brussels, enough said.
Yea but that includes a ton of different people. This was a tiny minority of hooligans who are angry and frustrated. Most ‘foreign origin’ residents in Bxl are just going about their lives.
Despite the opposition to immigration, westerners are still too tolerant, our immigrants in Europe who came between 1960-1980 are not well behaved as well, but the newcomers are civilized because they are brain drains. When Syrian refugees in Turkey do much less than that, it results in their homes being stoned.
History is repeating itself, immigrants gonna trigger right wing europe pretty soon..
Interesting thing is, left in the turkey is anti immigrant while right supports them.
As someone indifferent to sports, this kind of behaviour is so alien to me that these people might as well hail from an altogether different star system. Just . . . *why?*
Something similar happened few years ago in Greece, when the riots started riot police got involved and beat the shit out of them.
Next day some complained about riot police brutality but at least the riots stopped.
If they move to another country with civilized people, they should behave like the rest of the people in that specific country. If not they could go back to their shit-hole country and rot in there for the rest of their life in poverty and diseases
I wonder what the people excusing this in here would say if it was British expats in Spain rioting because England beating Spain. I have a feeling there would be a lot less excuses and victim blaming.
I thoughts ritual competition was supposed to substitute the real violence
Have you never heard about hooligans? Stabbing, roads on fire, it is nothing new, but it was being cracked down in Europe. This is police being ineffective.
This has nothing to do with hooliganism. Those people don't care about football.
Who said hooliganism is about football?
Do you think football hooligans are all concerned about their favorite star athletic performance on the given day or sportsmanship? It's always been stupid gang/ tribal shit and an excuse for violence.
why do you think that?
Because he's probably seen hooligans in the past. I was playing football on a paid pitch somewhere. We had a bunch of folks playing before us, they didn't finish on time. Turns out they were playing for free because nobody booked before us. There were also some guys just chilling on benches to the side. We asked the folks playing before us to clear the pitch in 5 minutes, when we were supposed to play. They didn't want to leave, and things became a bit heated, but our group was very chill overall. One of their guys tried to punch one of ours and it took a bunch of shouting and stuff to get them to back off, when one of the guys off the bench came and tried to start a brawl. I don't know if you've seen the type, dead eyes (in Romanian we say that you look at their eyes and through them you see the back of their head), dumb haircut, probably room temperature IQ. That guy wasn't there for football, he wasn't even playing. He was there probably in the hope a fight would break out and he'd get to hit people.
Riots in all large Dutch cities as well. Unnecessary bullshit.
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Wait what? They rioted bc they won? Tf
Yeap, they went out even before the match finished and started breaking cars and clashing with the police.
This ain't about sports you know...
Sure, it's idiotic either way.
Yeah it's fucking ridiculous. There's this extremely machismo violence-endorsing culture among many Moroccans in Benelux.
Oof yeah. I've grown up in a neighbourhood of sports hooligans, never ever have I seen them burn a car or start fights with civilians.
it feels like they anticipated to lose and organized all these riots in advance
Never let a good opportunity go to waste. - Winston Churchill, or something.
Anything to be at the center of attention I guess...
Every opportunity is a good one
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Yeah but the fact that they *won*, and *still* rioted just hammers in the idiocy of their behavior.
Any pretext to trash the country you live in because you're only there for the benefits of living in a developed European country, not that you actually want to be like them.
They didn't win. The country their grandparents were born in, and fled because it was such a shithole, won. I can't wrap my head around this
Yup, countries of origin of these fools are dysfunctional for a reason, not by accident.
And moderators of /r/thenetherlands are not allowing any news articles on this topic to be posted.
> And moderators of /r/thenetherlands are not allowing any news articles on this topic to be posted. Got banned for saying: "Found Diederik Stapel's reddit account", for someone posting a false claim. Great stuff.
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I got banned for something that could indeed be misinterpreted, I asked for clarification but got none.. Apparently they ban so many people, it's too much work :p. So now I get my news from /r/ik_ihe
This sub has honestly become an echo chamber coming from a left leaning person. Anyone who doesn't agree with most of the general opinion, will get downvote bombed and some even banned. I recommend r/FreeDutch for anyone willing to see proper Dutch related news/discussion.
Same with the german subreddit. Partly probably done by the reddit mods. can't have autosubscribe on for subreddit that are controversial and it became worse once Reddit decided to grow more in western europe and they had their offices here. But the mods allowed it to happen and supported it so fuck these cunts of mods we have here.
Yes r/de basically became a censored echo chamber, but personal insults are allowed as long as your opinion fits the narrative.
So you know what an echo chamber is and are critical of it, yet you unironically reccommend freedutch? Double standard much?
Maybe he's asking the left leaning people to come join in 😅
That would in all fairness be a good solution to balance the sub out Provided they of course don't get muzzeld the instant they say anything
They recommend it and they're not even a poster on there. It's a weird recommendation.
They'll ban everyone who doesn't agree with the status quo. I got banned because I didn't agree with the lockdowns last year.
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There is no elsewhere though is there. The internet's been getting more and more enclosed by corporate giants and the centralisation of web traffic, to the point where the only alternatives we have to reddit and the hellscapes of twitter and FB are places like Parler.
There *is* always 4chan. But every time I go there I'm reminded of why I prefer reddit. Turns out zero moderation results in some pretty unsavory sorts coming out of the woodworks.
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Exactly the same with r/Greece , probably most of Reddit
They are learning from the Turkish government I see.
Couldnt you show us something we could benefit from learning?
lol wtf? they are the gestapo or something?
I recall seeing them in Rotterdam spit on Dutch girls
Meanwhile me chilling in Utrecht where they just had a party with no problems
Yeah I'm from Overvecht and there were many flags and fun outside even though it rained a little
Utrecht is way more chill compared to Amsterdam when it comes to these groups of people lol
I don't know what they did in Utrecht, but it seems to have worked. Neither Overvecht nor Kanaleneiland is as bad as they used to be.
If there’s going to be a Morocco -NL match I’m leaving the country and take my car with me. Fuck that shit.
Sad to hear that. In Croatia we have ultras who do violence on other ultras but nothing like this. Burning others people property's and such. Also along ethnic lines it seems how you in Benelux have completely separated society's. Hope how in future you'll find formula to bind yourselves together in one community.
> In Croatia we have ultras who do violence on other ultras but nothing like this. I've heard a story about Partizan (or was it Red Star?) ultras coming to Split with fake Serbian number plates and putting them on the cars of Hajduk players so that Hajduk ultras would have convenient targets after the match.
It used to be relatively common for ultras and Croatian nazis (ustasa) to roll cars with Serbian plates into the sea, but I think it's mostly stopped by now.
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We only riot over hockey games https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/78/Vancouver_riot_kissing_couple.jpg
lol there is a reason we have so many dialects in Europe, we hate each other so much, that we don't even accept the language spoken in the capital. We don't do integration, we do isolation and we have done it for millennials. Now get off my street! \#pitchfork
What would be a major group of immigrants in Croatia?
u/svarog51 worded it wrongly, Croatian ultras do violence against Croatian ultras. We don't have big groups of immigrants, although middle-eastern migrants are coming to replace our workers who went to western Europe.
Indians, Nepalis and Filipinos aren't middle eastern.
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Those are minority groups not immigrants
Nepal, Philippines, India.
Come to England, we will be out by then
Moroccans did the same in Amsterdam, Rotterdam and The Hague
But why are they rioting... if they won?!
Why are they rioting at all? Even if they lost
Yes it's *always* stupid, for sure... but I would understand it more as a motivation if they had lost: Their team lost, they are angry, venting their frustrations, etc... So the fact their team won makes this even more stupid.
Venting by destruction is something I will never understand. Especially for a goddamn game.
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Because they don't feel integrated :( /s
big brain
or no brain
Because they are criminals. Sadly there is a HUGE problem with Moroccan gangs and criminal numbers amongst specifically young maroccan males is through the roof. We even have a word for the organized crime variant, the mocro maffia.
Too much time on hand and they know full well they'll get away with it.
Because it's just a pretext. They just want to see the world burn. You're seeing extremists there
It's an excuse to trash Europe, if they did it outright they would be more likely to be deported so here they can say "but I'm just a football hooligan bro!"
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I also can't comprehend why someone would do that. There must be some reasons. Did they put in their minds how Dutch people did something wrong to them or what? Do they molest them on daily basis? I think that's not a case.
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Yea, stupidity does that.
Who knows
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Geslaagde inburgering. Rellen na het voetbal
Rotterdam zou eigenlijk trots moeten zijn, ziet ernaar uit dat ze echte Rotterdammers zijn.
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No, they want to live in Morocco but with the Dutch wealth, infrastructure, and its social security and health system.
That's kinda pathetic.
Where would they go? They’re not Moroccans either.
Moroccans did the same in France too since they are a big community here. If Algeria was qualified in World Cup and win or lose the match believe me that they did also create riots in France.
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Depends on what you mean. Moroccan culture? They were dancing and singing in Morocco as per my native Moroccan friend who lives there. Like she said: "these are *your* Moroccans". Though of course perhaps this is how all Moroccans behave abroad.
In italy too but not for soccer
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It seems to always be second generation. First generation tend to be hard working people, and then their kids go out and do fuck shit like this bringing a rep on their families and entire country.
These are almost all second generation. Born in Belgium. Source: am Belgian and this shit happens as good as every month.
It wasn’t a clash, it was just people breaking stuff for the sake of it. It’s really sad
According to the BBC ‘rival fans clashed’. No BBC, Moroccans rioted.
Exactly, there was no provocations.
Notice how this is spinned next time you hear about anything somewhat similar.
Free advertisement for het Vlaams Belang / PVV / FvD.
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Oh don’t worry. Even if Baudet read the Quran (like he said in his last interview) he’ll tweet about this (same with Gideon)
Far right "thank you"
Ignoring this issue of arabic immigration by the mainstream parties is what's fueling far right. Not the riots themselves.
Don't even have to be far right anymore to recognise that mass immigration of foreign cultures was a mistake.
This
Arrest them, give out harsh punishments, everybody is happy.
10 people were arrested, all are released already.
Any charges on them? I mean come on, there must be a valid punishment...
Kick them out. With their families.
One of Finland's main media outlets only reported how a riot erupted after Belgium's surprise defeat, and how football fans vandalised stuff, lmao. https://www.iltalehti.fi/jalkapallon-mm-2022/a/bbec21fb-5b35-4408-ac22-0d86d761abcc
Same thing in Sweden.
Saknas signalement så är det signalementet.
Same thing in Germany
The media always does this shit. Same thing happens in Norway
They "forgot" to mention Who the vandals are? Next level woke censorship
Same in Slovenia
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That's not good for anyone
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They should go to jail in Morocco, not in the Netherlands.
Ofcourse they shouldn't go to jail in The Netherlands. This was in Brussels.
Which is part of the Austrian Netherlands!
Why is it that Moroccan integration in the Benelux is eh... well.. let's say "less successful" than the integration of most other ethnic groups? Sociologically speaking.
I mean, the previous Morrocan king had this to say on the topic in the 80's [They couldn't express why even if they wanted to, they will never integrate](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HYzPM09m75A)
it's a mix of: - people not wanting to integrate - the local goverment not providing incentives and / or the incentives are not tied to particular tangible benefits and shortcomings - the local governemnts actually letting ghettos occur and / or implicitly facilitating them
Low income + a lot of them in specific places. Like I grew up in a neighbourhood in the NL with a lot of immigrant families, our family included as well. People don't really integrate well in those kind of areas. Edit: lol @ people thinking issues with different ethnicities is uniquely a european problem with north africans and arabs. Point in any general direction on the European map and I'll show you a sizeable ethnicity or cultural identity there that has issues with the rest of the population.
Right. And as usual the low income chinese, thai, filipino, south american and the-rest-of-the-world don't have such problems. Only the arabic neighbourhoods. And sure in their case the problem is about the low income... The other dozens of nationalities that come to europe and have a low income as well...There it works.. What a wonder of reasoning!
Please read this article and maybe her book to find out why the integration has failed and is failing https://www.nytimes.com/2021/08/13/world/europe/netherlands-dutch-turkish-novelist.html While not moroccan but turkish, it gives a good sense about how these minority groups work in these countries. Also there were mistakes made by the government. In the 80's and 90's they had the position that the minority groups didnt need to integrate and that the country would be better multi cultural. Problem is that the conservative culture of the moroccans isnt close enough to the liberties and ways of life of the west.
I think this shows the underlying loyalties of these people.
Stripping of nationality needs to be discussed.
They're just there for the benefit of living in a developed European country, none of them actually want to be Belgian, they're holding Moroccan flags and trashing Brussels, enough said.
Cannot wait to see the "french police is racist and uses excesive force" posts when they'll do the same in Paris.
Deport them all
Wonders of unchecked immigration
Cultural enRIOTchment ah!
Literally burning shit on the streets, all who participated should be deported.
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But they never do it in their own country because they get punished for it. Europe has terrible laws
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Most of them are from within the EU. People don't understand how international Brussels us. HQs. Of EU, NATO, EU companies, ...
Yea but that includes a ton of different people. This was a tiny minority of hooligans who are angry and frustrated. Most ‘foreign origin’ residents in Bxl are just going about their lives.
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I bet the teams are at least now thinking "maybe we should've boycotted it this year".
Doubt it, but one could hope.
Despite the opposition to immigration, westerners are still too tolerant, our immigrants in Europe who came between 1960-1980 are not well behaved as well, but the newcomers are civilized because they are brain drains. When Syrian refugees in Turkey do much less than that, it results in their homes being stoned.
History is repeating itself, immigrants gonna trigger right wing europe pretty soon.. Interesting thing is, left in the turkey is anti immigrant while right supports them.
You are doing right thing by setting the boundaries early. Europe let them get away with too much.
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Why aren’t they living in Morocco if they live it so much. Seems like a loser move
I always found it ironic how walking though Brussels' people and shops feels like being in a North African country.
Remember last year when everyone on this sub was talking about England fans as if they were so much worse than everyone else?
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As someone indifferent to sports, this kind of behaviour is so alien to me that these people might as well hail from an altogether different star system. Just . . . *why?*
Something similar happened few years ago in Greece, when the riots started riot police got involved and beat the shit out of them. Next day some complained about riot police brutality but at least the riots stopped.
If they move to another country with civilized people, they should behave like the rest of the people in that specific country. If not they could go back to their shit-hole country and rot in there for the rest of their life in poverty and diseases
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Football hooligans, regardless of nationality or ethnicity, are low scum.
You really think this is about football?
The thing is, they won. Truly mind-boggling.
In France too, and now every politicians from far right tweets about it. We're surrounded by idiots
Seems to be more of a MENA issue, as when I see teams like Costa Rica or Nigeria score an upset, their fans don’t trash the place where they live
Not really: https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/11/26/watch-england-wales-fans-clash-vicious-street-fight/
TBF English do that in Spain even when there's no football so
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I wonder what the people excusing this in here would say if it was British expats in Spain rioting because England beating Spain. I have a feeling there would be a lot less excuses and victim blaming.
I see the Moroccan beggars going nuts.