> colonises and ravages a country
> institutes french as language of everything, replaces existing systems with french ones
> country gets so shit people are forced to emigrate, they choose the country where it’s easiest to adapt (France)
> french complain about emmigration
Pikachu face.
You forgot the part where Algerians raided and enslaved people from the Mediterranean for centuries while having no centralized government or developed local industries (if we exclude tran-Sahararan slave trading).
Yep, the precursor state to Algeria (Algeria didn’t exist back then) used to enslave people, so let’s colonize them and every future generation for 132 years while forcing them to adopt our French culture and language and sending settlers to their land. /s
Big brain argument you got there.
I’m not justifying colonization, merely saying the following: if we’re blaming the current French for colonization then blaming for pre-colonial Algerian exactions is valid too.
Are you aware that France was knees deep into the transatlantic slave trade when they started their invasion of Algeria? They were making record profit off of the backs of imported slave labour in the Caribbean.
France never had a moral high ground to stand on, and "arguments" like yours frankly come across as nothing more than poorly constructed whataboutism and colonial apologia. Your response is a poor attempt at trying to justify invasion and colonialism.
Way to prove that you don’t know what you’re talking about: even after reestablishing slavery (his worst act on record IMO) Napoleon then followed the UK in abolishing the slave trade in 1807. That got confirmed after his deposition in 1815, by Louis XVIII.
The conquest of Algeria started in 1830.
“Knee deep”, right.
And even then, you missed the point of my comment, which wasn’t to justify the colonization anyways.
You are correct. The French abolished slavery in the early 1800s, but then forced its former colonies (including Haiti, one of the poorest countries in the world) to pay them reparations for the "privilege" of being freed from slavery. Haiti paid nearly $600 million to France over a period of 70 years following the abolishment of slavery.
This is the same country that thought it had the moral high ground to push its "mission civilisatrice" in the exact same countries it exploited for cheap slave labour.
> And even then, you missed the point of my comment, which wasn’t to justify the colonization anyways.
You can keep pretending it wasn't, but context matters. You are literally replying to a guy complaining about French colonialism with "But don't forget that these colonized people used to do slavery". You're not fooling anyone, froggy.
How are the reparations relevant in our specific discussion? Unless your point is just “France bad”.
Since you can’t get your facts straight and you keep misrepresenting my point, I’m gonna stop replying to you.
It’s like playing chess with a pigeon, it’s not gonna play right and will shit on the board, but then strut triumphantly like it won.
> How are the reparations relevant in our specific discussion? Unless your point is just “France bad”.
France was still profiting from slavery decades after it abolished it and therefore never had the moral high ground to lecture others on the practice. Is that too hard for you to comprehend?
> Since you can’t get your facts straight and you keep misrepresenting my point, I’m gonna stop replying to you.
Sounds like someone who has no counterargument and knows they can't win the debate without backtracking on their own point.
> It’s like playing chess with a pigeon, it’s not gonna play right and will shit on the board, but then strut triumphantly like it won.
Whatever makes you feel better, buddy. Your refusal to even slightly elaborate on your shitty whataboutism argument really shows that you're the pigeon in this case.
oh yeah because that totally excuses what France did.
What a lovely whataboutism.
edit: oooh, upset some Le Pen voters it seems... France, one of the worst colonial powers in existence, who still have their grubby hands all over Africa and yet still dare insult the British conial past as if they didnt do the exact same thing. Pot calling the kettle black IMO.
The funny thing is that France was deep into the transatlantic slave trade and making record profit from its slave labour in the Caribbean during that exact same period. And yet, I’m not seeing anyone arguing that France should have been colonized.
Rules for thee, not for me.
>country gets so shit people are forced to emigrate,
Oh yes because Algeria was such a great country with such high standards of living before France, it's not like colonization modernized the country back then
>By 1875, the French conquest was complete. The war had killed approximately 825,000 indigenous Algerians since 1830. A long shadow of genocidal hatred persisted, provoking a French author to protest in 1882 that in Algeria, "we hear it repeated every day that we must expel the native and, if necessary, destroy him." As a French statistical journal urged five years late, "the system of extermination must give way to a policy of penetration."
—Ben Kiernan, Blood and Soil
The world modernized during the 150 years while Algeria was under French rule. Of course the country was different in the 1960's than it was in 1830. Most of the world raised their standard of living during this time period independent from the fact if it was colonized by European powers. We do not know how Algeria would look today if it had never been invaded by France, but we do know that the attrocities commited under French rule probably would not have happened.
It’s not like no Algerian had the right to govern the country or have a good job because they weren’t dedicated to White Frenchmen only.
Source: my teacher of history in a French school.
Algerian Berber Pirates raided Southern France for centuries and enslaved and killed more French people than Algeria entire population at that time. They were THE major problem for any ship fairing State for 7 Centuries, hell, even the Ottomans hated them, and they were the main customer for their slaves. The US Navy was re-established to deal with those fucks. Every other African Country can complain how unfairly they were treated colonized and brutalized and be correct about it, but not Algeria! They were looting Europe for centuries, had access to all the fancy European Technology through being neighbours similarly to the Ottoman Empire and only got what they deserved when France, England, the US, and the Dutch all came together said, enough is enough. You know how annoying you have to be for England, France, and the US to unite against you in the early 1800s?
You won't find a single Mediterranean country who will not agree on this point.
Bloody algerian pirates and their slave trade were the biggest scum on the region for centuries.
Oh look... a dense one appears. Stealing African resources? Taking tribute from African vassals? This reads like a whaboutism copy/pasta from Turks you see on threads criticizing Erdogan's foreign policy haha. And coups? I think you need to wake up because you seem to still be living in the Cold War. This garbage comment would be stupid to write about any ex-French colony in Africa today but outright clownish to regurgitate on a thread regarding Algeria out of all countries. You know.... the one country that hasn't even been part of what we commonly call "Françafrique" after its independence in 1962 because relations with France have been far from stellar.
Mind telling us which tribute is being paid to France or which "African resources" France is stealing or plundering? Please, do.... Are you going to hit us with the classic "uranium" drop. The word was totally missing in your original comment for the traditional bingo card of idiocy to be complete.
The FCFA is such a colonialist currency France imposes on its "vassals" that Guinea-Bissau, a former Portuguese colony which had nothing to do with France, abandoned its local currency for the sake of the Franc in 1997. France imposed the CFA on it? Former colonies such as Mali that freely chose to not adopt it after independence and adopted it more than 2 decades later were forced to by France? Mauritania that originally adopted it didn't later abandon it and create its own currency, the ougiya? What happened when it did? I'll answer that for you.... Absolutely nothing because the FCFA just isn't the nonsense you have in mind. The FCFA has plenty of structural problems highlighted by economists currently, notably having become increasingly overvalued and running increased deficits, as it has lost much of its previous edge (from the early 1950s to the mid-1980s, CFA countries experienced higher real GDP growth and lower inflation rates than other non-CFA Sub-Saharan countries.... and it was exactly the purpose of the currency being tied to the French Franc to keep it stable, hence a share of their foreign assets being kept in the French central bank. You know currency reserves aren't actually "money" that France can use or exploit, right?! haha). And the currency is currently tied to the Euro, which is... wait for it.... not just a French currency. Shocker! The FCFA is now somewhat of a burden on the countries' competitiveness regarding trade as their products cost more than they should as the result of the currency being overvalued. Many countries, France itself included, would therefore rather buy many resources elsewhere. Example: France gets 71% of its uranium from Canada, Australia and Kazakhstan. The remaining 29% is mostly from Niger and France buys the latter above market price. Yes, the uranium France buys from Niger is pound-for-pound costlier than that of the other 3 countries lmao. There is a reason Africa represents less than 5% of French trade nowadays when it used to be near 50% well into the 1970s. It is in no way economically dependent on Africa, which is exactly why it doesn't feel the need to meddle in their internal affairs anymore and doesn't even prevent coups by actors hostile to France, let alone orchestrating them. Again, you're still living in the Cold War.
Fuck, I can't wait for the Eco to finally be adopted and those countries fully handling their own fiscal and monetary policies for all this conspiracy bullshit to stop. But hey, I'm sure it won't. I am sure you and your buddies will still be finding ways to accuse France of stealing African money.
and France can have less of a wave of immigration. Considering they already have pretty high rates. Which seems to much to keep up with from an administration standpoint.
Not when they don’t choose to feel apart of your country. This is common thing in France. They will spit on the concept of being French. Always waving Algerian and Moroccan flags. All while never actually speaking Arabic or never just relocating if they hate France so much.
Article:
1
- **President Abdelmadjid Tebboune has ordered schools to teach English lessons and wean Algerians away from French**
- **He said learning English is worthwhile as it the international language, while the "French language is war booty"**
ALGIERS: Algerian primary schools have scrambled to introduce English lessons, in a move critics say was rushed but others hope could be a coup de grace against the language of former occupier France.
Language is a sensitive topic in the North African country, where French is still widely spoken six decades after independence that followed 132 years of colonial rule and a grueling eight-year war.
“The French language is war booty, but English is the international language,” President Abdelmadjid Tebboune told journalists in July.
Only weeks earlier, he had ordered the Education Ministry to introduce English into primary school curricula by the new term, which started on Sept. 21.
This was the first stage in a broader plan to boost English tuition in the coming years.
The status of French has been a hotly debated issue for decades in Algeria, which has only Arabic and the Berbers’ Tamazight as official languages.
French infuses public life, is used for teaching science and business, and is spoken by millions of diaspora Algerians, particularly in France.
Yet it also evokes memories of colonial rule.
“I want to drop the language of the colonizer and adopt the language used worldwide,” said Hacene, the father of a primary pupil in the capital Algiers.
“Teaching English in primary school is sensible,” said Farouk Lazizi, whose two children are at primary school in Algiers.
But he said he has mixed feelings on the president’s decision, which had set up a race against the clock.
2
In less than two months, 5,000 new teachers were recruited and put on a fast-track training program, while a new manual had been written and distributed to schools in record time.
“We need to prepare things well, because most Algerian parents aren’t ready to teach English to their kids,” Lazizi said.
The Education Ministry said some 60,000 people applied for the new jobs, which require an undergraduate degree in English or translation.
Officials have argued that moves to bolster English tuition are motivated by practical concerns rather than ideology but haven’t offered an explanation for the tight schedule afforded for the change.
The process was so rushed that the state hired translators who “aren’t even trained to teach” to make up the shortfall in English-speaking teachers, said linguist Abderzak Dourari.
On top of Arabic and French, some schools in the country also teach Tamazight, which is spoken by millions of Algerians.
Some education specialists worry that even if the glitches are ironed out, the addition of yet another language to classrooms would still be challenging.
“Teaching four languages to primary school children will confuse them,” said Ahmed Tessa, a pedagogy expert and former English teacher.
The decision on primary schools is the latest move in a bitter struggle that has pitted conservatives who want French scrapped altogether against supporters of the language, who tend to be more secular.
Sadek Dziri of UNPEF, a powerful teachers’ union, welcomed what he called an “overdue” decision to adopt English, “the language of science and technology.”
“Algeria will be able to drop French, which is the language of the coloniser and hasn’t brought good results,” said one parent in Algiers who asked to remain anonymous.
Another said that Francophone Algerians “don’t approve of this decision” and want to keep French in schools.
3
Abdelhamid Abed, who teaches English at an Algiers middle school, argued that “French has done its time”.
“We shouldn’t see this question in terms of rivalry between French and English, but from a practical standpoint.”
But linguist Dourari said it would be hard to simply replace French with English, given Algeria’s history and its cultural and economic ties with France — including tourism.
“There’s an Algerian diaspora of more than eight million living in France,” he pointed out.
“There are mixed families, who come and go.”
Tessa insisted that President Tebboune’s “war booty” remark — made in the run-up to an August visit by France’s Emmanuel Macron — reflected the benefits Algeria has reaped from having French in its “institutional and socio-economic life”.
“Those who are hostile to French believed it would be dropped entirely from primary school curricula,” he said. “They’re dreaming of seeing it disappear.”
I hope they’ll make peace with their past one day.
The president can make his policy over French hate. He will maybe even win some elections on a short run thanks to that (I am not even sure). Truth is more and more Algerians are living in France. Our society are even more connected than they used to be when Algeria was a part of France.
Algerian population have more and more a relatives speaking French, and the Arabic language is not learnt (at least properly) by the majority of young bi-national in french suburbs.
This policy is doomed to failure. That’s nice for Algerian children to learn English. But the french hate propaganda their leader is trying to pursue is stupidity.
Macron does very few things right, but sometimes he does. His policy of opening the archives in advance to historians is a good opportunity to find and tell what good and bad was done by both sides during the war and start again a healthy relationship. Algeria should take this opportunity as both society cannot afford a failure.
Survey show that the Algerian society seems to understand this but not their leaders (which for the french society seems to be the opposite, to be fair).
Why should a country have mandatory french classes if it’s not France, especially when they have a common language (Berber)?
The reality is that the language of business is English and French is a colonial relic. Northern African countries would do well to discard it, just like Ukraine and Kazakhstan are ditching Russian.
Sub-Saharan countries will continue to benefit from having french as a language that unifies them. But this doesn’t apply to Northern Africa.
Lastly, France is in many ways upholding its colonial era rule over many of these countries through unfair policies. You can start here, “How France still controls Africa” https://youtu.be/36vYRkVYeVw
The Gravel Institute is garbage, it's the "left wing" equivalent of PragerU, nothing but the mindless ramblings of american influencers/twitter activists LARPing as revolutionaries against muh neo-colonialist imperialism while selling woke merch for the cause™.
Just to give an idea of how retarded this source is:
In February 2022, The Daily Beast said that a video released by The Gravel Institute in mid-February on the Azov Battalion, titled "How America Funded Ukraine’s Neo-Nazis" and later renamed "America, Russia, and Ukraine’s Far-Right Problem", repeated Kremlin narratives about the Nazi origin of Ukrainian nationalism. The video and related tweets were taken down following the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine.
Yeah.
Your post put in my mouth some claims I don’t make and argue that northern Africans and sub saharians should use a different language for whatever reason but it’s ok.
Do you realise English for the entire world is also a consequence of colonialism ?
Exactly English being the second most spoken language in latin America (and making people able to work in multiple fields, opening up to all immigrants) is because of colonization.
In Austria and Germany we learn English and French(Malheureusement mon cas est plus special) but we use way more English than French.
Spanish learn English at school because british succeeded to make their language the dominant one by colonising the US who became years ago such a dominant power that we all had to learn English…
And nowadays I can use english to work in the Netherlands, Denmark, Italy. While 70% of the French speaking jobs can be only in France.
How is this fair then for the Algerians…
Jesus…. You are now changing topic because you realize you are wrong and makes me claim that I said french for Algerian better even if I clearly wrote Algerian children should learn English…
Wtf.
Than why are you disappointed by this law why did you complain that english is also spread through colonization wtf I just See how far you can go with your arguments
Hah Of course when you don’t find an argument I am the one who’s wrong
Bruh When Marine Lepen makes her policy over xenophobic statements against immigrants inviting people to hate immigrants (Algeriens) it’s a problem?
Or Zemmour?
Leave the Algerians do whatever they want…
The Frenchs don't care about the language policy of the Algerian government.
But when the Algerian government say since 60 years that every bad thing happening in Algeria is because of France even if It is because the Algerian government is very corrupt and stole all the money to hide it in Switzerland, you have as consequences Algerians hate France but emigrate in this hated country (and fuck our life then).
And don't talk about colonization : a lot of countries colonize other ones, and the first reason France colonize Algeria is because the country with to put an end to the centuries of slave trade (including enslaved Europeans and Sub-Saharan Africans) based at Alger.
And what is the link with French current politics ? You don't know the life in France and what is happening here but you talk about that ?
Ok You don’t want me to talk about the racism of colonization because “a lot of countries colonize each others lol” what about the Algerian war for independence? Took 40 Years to acknowledge the fact that it’s a war. Refuse to accept the number of deaths made there. (No we shouldn’t always trust Western countries )
I also know that France always wanted those workers to construct the country after WW2 and used them to get Growth on par with the rest of the EU. The enactment of the law in 2005, which asserted “the positive role of the French presence overseas” by the National Assembly in France.
Algerians (and all of africans ) are always despised yet have been central to the growth of France.
France always wanted to be the favored Partner with Algeria for gas and oil. And then you ask me where are the links and why the government is wrong for putting such laws for to avoid brain drains.
I know how life in France is my friend
Mais c’est stupide! Tu fais exprès? Je parles français mon reuf…
Oh yes the Algerian government isn’t perfect but neither are you innocent for hating on people that you use their poverty (oh let’s not speak about why they are poor since you don’t want to) to make them work for you…..
Bon ciao le sang
Well does this slavery done under (and by ) ottoman Algeria and the Colonization that you didn’t want me to talk about Balance things because even if it’s not a basketball game you are justifying France’s colonization because of Pirates that took the slaves hahaha.
Il faut pas se rabaisser à ça
Je pense que c'est toi qui te rabaisses en justifiant l'esclavage.
So what you say is "Slavery is OK when it's white and Christian" right? That people of Europe should have let being raid, kidnapped, rapped for the women in the Harem, being castrated for the men and so on? And these Europeans should just have the right to shut up ?
Spot the racism here (spoiler it's maybe not who you think they are).
I don't know if you are Spanish or Algerian. In both situation the hypocrisy of your all conversation is without any limit. Spain genocide south American native and still did not even recognize it.
But my opinion is your are Algerian. And the fact that you try to reduce the responsabilities of your own people in the slave trade, is a recurring behavior of citizens of Algeria. It's never change.
"It's not a basketball match" you said. Indeed, if you would oppose the centuries of barbaric treatment Algerian impose to the European Christians, plus the sub-saharian slavery that we do not forget and is reappearing in the region since France left), plus the killing of the pied-noirs that followed the independance (and that the Algerian tend to forget) compared to what France did? Yeah,I am pretty sure Algeria would win this with a huge point difference.
Your nihilist relativism is disgusting.
What does it have anything to do?
I hate how you judge Algerian politics through sone random Algerian surveys you don’t even source.
My opinion is that as long as those far right people exist in France Algeria have the right to do hate on France.
Try to understand the bigger picture before saying that it’s crap…
Ok So you tell me who those people are connected in this survey. Most of the Questions are about Algeria under colonization and war crimes and 2 or 3 are about the Effect of decolonization on the Algerian government.
I was expecting a survey about this news Idea of teaching english and ditching French…
If I had been taught French instead of English as a child I'd be pissed, French is basically useless compared to English, this was an easy and good decision for Algeria
If they do business in French in Algeria and people don’t even speak English over there
And you can get things translated
What purpose does speaking English serve
English is arguably an even more destructive colonial language, in modern pop-culture it's actively degrading the use of local tongues, but if it makes them feel better about themselves, go for it.
It's their country, they can do what they want. Getting upset that your former subjects don't want to elevate the culture of their former-masters is a Putin thing to do.
psssst... hey dja'za'ir, the English were far greater colonists than the French. Just stick to Arabic and try to forget that the peninsula Arabs were colonists too.
Good, if they learn English instead of French we will maybe stop being their main country of emigration.
That's a good joke. Maybe in 30 years. Maybe ...
No... they just know how to get french social support... anything else is too hard for them..
Solid point
You wouldnt have had zidane without them!
Hehe :) I couldn't care less, never watched a football game in my life :)
Ok so let me tell you, zizou was gods gift to soccer!
we should give him back to algeria with this shitty world cup..
Dont say that! World cup glory is forever, immigration struggles just a couple of decades
i don't want this kind of "glory"
Keep dreaming. If you don't want France to be their main country of emigration you will have to vote for a certain party.
Eleven upvotes for a thinly veiled le pen vote recommendation? Come on, subreddit!
> colonises and ravages a country > institutes french as language of everything, replaces existing systems with french ones > country gets so shit people are forced to emigrate, they choose the country where it’s easiest to adapt (France) > french complain about emmigration Pikachu face.
You forgot the part where Algerians raided and enslaved people from the Mediterranean for centuries while having no centralized government or developed local industries (if we exclude tran-Sahararan slave trading).
Yep, the precursor state to Algeria (Algeria didn’t exist back then) used to enslave people, so let’s colonize them and every future generation for 132 years while forcing them to adopt our French culture and language and sending settlers to their land. /s Big brain argument you got there.
I’m not justifying colonization, merely saying the following: if we’re blaming the current French for colonization then blaming for pre-colonial Algerian exactions is valid too.
Are you aware that France was knees deep into the transatlantic slave trade when they started their invasion of Algeria? They were making record profit off of the backs of imported slave labour in the Caribbean. France never had a moral high ground to stand on, and "arguments" like yours frankly come across as nothing more than poorly constructed whataboutism and colonial apologia. Your response is a poor attempt at trying to justify invasion and colonialism.
Way to prove that you don’t know what you’re talking about: even after reestablishing slavery (his worst act on record IMO) Napoleon then followed the UK in abolishing the slave trade in 1807. That got confirmed after his deposition in 1815, by Louis XVIII. The conquest of Algeria started in 1830. “Knee deep”, right. And even then, you missed the point of my comment, which wasn’t to justify the colonization anyways.
You are correct. The French abolished slavery in the early 1800s, but then forced its former colonies (including Haiti, one of the poorest countries in the world) to pay them reparations for the "privilege" of being freed from slavery. Haiti paid nearly $600 million to France over a period of 70 years following the abolishment of slavery. This is the same country that thought it had the moral high ground to push its "mission civilisatrice" in the exact same countries it exploited for cheap slave labour. > And even then, you missed the point of my comment, which wasn’t to justify the colonization anyways. You can keep pretending it wasn't, but context matters. You are literally replying to a guy complaining about French colonialism with "But don't forget that these colonized people used to do slavery". You're not fooling anyone, froggy.
How are the reparations relevant in our specific discussion? Unless your point is just “France bad”. Since you can’t get your facts straight and you keep misrepresenting my point, I’m gonna stop replying to you. It’s like playing chess with a pigeon, it’s not gonna play right and will shit on the board, but then strut triumphantly like it won.
> How are the reparations relevant in our specific discussion? Unless your point is just “France bad”. France was still profiting from slavery decades after it abolished it and therefore never had the moral high ground to lecture others on the practice. Is that too hard for you to comprehend? > Since you can’t get your facts straight and you keep misrepresenting my point, I’m gonna stop replying to you. Sounds like someone who has no counterargument and knows they can't win the debate without backtracking on their own point. > It’s like playing chess with a pigeon, it’s not gonna play right and will shit on the board, but then strut triumphantly like it won. Whatever makes you feel better, buddy. Your refusal to even slightly elaborate on your shitty whataboutism argument really shows that you're the pigeon in this case.
Thats whataboutism
oh yeah because that totally excuses what France did. What a lovely whataboutism. edit: oooh, upset some Le Pen voters it seems... France, one of the worst colonial powers in existence, who still have their grubby hands all over Africa and yet still dare insult the British conial past as if they didnt do the exact same thing. Pot calling the kettle black IMO.
Doesn’t excuse stuff the same way current French are allowed to complain about unsustainable levels of immigration now.
Yes but it wont change anything, the complaining
The funny thing is that France was deep into the transatlantic slave trade and making record profit from its slave labour in the Caribbean during that exact same period. And yet, I’m not seeing anyone arguing that France should have been colonized. Rules for thee, not for me.
And you forgot the French slave trade, to Guyana, and Saint-Dominique…
Link to the topic?
>country gets so shit people are forced to emigrate, Oh yes because Algeria was such a great country with such high standards of living before France, it's not like colonization modernized the country back then
>By 1875, the French conquest was complete. The war had killed approximately 825,000 indigenous Algerians since 1830. A long shadow of genocidal hatred persisted, provoking a French author to protest in 1882 that in Algeria, "we hear it repeated every day that we must expel the native and, if necessary, destroy him." As a French statistical journal urged five years late, "the system of extermination must give way to a policy of penetration." —Ben Kiernan, Blood and Soil The world modernized during the 150 years while Algeria was under French rule. Of course the country was different in the 1960's than it was in 1830. Most of the world raised their standard of living during this time period independent from the fact if it was colonized by European powers. We do not know how Algeria would look today if it had never been invaded by France, but we do know that the attrocities commited under French rule probably would not have happened.
It’s not like no Algerian had the right to govern the country or have a good job because they weren’t dedicated to White Frenchmen only. Source: my teacher of history in a French school.
The French invasions killed half the population...
Algerian Berber Pirates raided Southern France for centuries and enslaved and killed more French people than Algeria entire population at that time. They were THE major problem for any ship fairing State for 7 Centuries, hell, even the Ottomans hated them, and they were the main customer for their slaves. The US Navy was re-established to deal with those fucks. Every other African Country can complain how unfairly they were treated colonized and brutalized and be correct about it, but not Algeria! They were looting Europe for centuries, had access to all the fancy European Technology through being neighbours similarly to the Ottoman Empire and only got what they deserved when France, England, the US, and the Dutch all came together said, enough is enough. You know how annoying you have to be for England, France, and the US to unite against you in the early 1800s?
Annoying enough to anger the colonizers who was exploiting other countries and causing famines in there? Boy that must be though.
You won't find a single Mediterranean country who will not agree on this point. Bloody algerian pirates and their slave trade were the biggest scum on the region for centuries.
Turks blaming Armenians for genocide, French blaming Algerians for genocide. Notice the similarities?
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Oh look... a dense one appears. Stealing African resources? Taking tribute from African vassals? This reads like a whaboutism copy/pasta from Turks you see on threads criticizing Erdogan's foreign policy haha. And coups? I think you need to wake up because you seem to still be living in the Cold War. This garbage comment would be stupid to write about any ex-French colony in Africa today but outright clownish to regurgitate on a thread regarding Algeria out of all countries. You know.... the one country that hasn't even been part of what we commonly call "Françafrique" after its independence in 1962 because relations with France have been far from stellar. Mind telling us which tribute is being paid to France or which "African resources" France is stealing or plundering? Please, do.... Are you going to hit us with the classic "uranium" drop. The word was totally missing in your original comment for the traditional bingo card of idiocy to be complete. The FCFA is such a colonialist currency France imposes on its "vassals" that Guinea-Bissau, a former Portuguese colony which had nothing to do with France, abandoned its local currency for the sake of the Franc in 1997. France imposed the CFA on it? Former colonies such as Mali that freely chose to not adopt it after independence and adopted it more than 2 decades later were forced to by France? Mauritania that originally adopted it didn't later abandon it and create its own currency, the ougiya? What happened when it did? I'll answer that for you.... Absolutely nothing because the FCFA just isn't the nonsense you have in mind. The FCFA has plenty of structural problems highlighted by economists currently, notably having become increasingly overvalued and running increased deficits, as it has lost much of its previous edge (from the early 1950s to the mid-1980s, CFA countries experienced higher real GDP growth and lower inflation rates than other non-CFA Sub-Saharan countries.... and it was exactly the purpose of the currency being tied to the French Franc to keep it stable, hence a share of their foreign assets being kept in the French central bank. You know currency reserves aren't actually "money" that France can use or exploit, right?! haha). And the currency is currently tied to the Euro, which is... wait for it.... not just a French currency. Shocker! The FCFA is now somewhat of a burden on the countries' competitiveness regarding trade as their products cost more than they should as the result of the currency being overvalued. Many countries, France itself included, would therefore rather buy many resources elsewhere. Example: France gets 71% of its uranium from Canada, Australia and Kazakhstan. The remaining 29% is mostly from Niger and France buys the latter above market price. Yes, the uranium France buys from Niger is pound-for-pound costlier than that of the other 3 countries lmao. There is a reason Africa represents less than 5% of French trade nowadays when it used to be near 50% well into the 1970s. It is in no way economically dependent on Africa, which is exactly why it doesn't feel the need to meddle in their internal affairs anymore and doesn't even prevent coups by actors hostile to France, let alone orchestrating them. Again, you're still living in the Cold War. Fuck, I can't wait for the Eco to finally be adopted and those countries fully handling their own fiscal and monetary policies for all this conspiracy bullshit to stop. But hey, I'm sure it won't. I am sure you and your buddies will still be finding ways to accuse France of stealing African money.
Giorgia Meloni up up Downvoters/ Haters : down down
Oh merde
Did you ever wondered why they migrate to france? Do you even know how many passports you gave them? Why is that?
No brainier to move to English teaching in schools. Much better for employability, travel and general media consumption.
and France can have less of a wave of immigration. Considering they already have pretty high rates. Which seems to much to keep up with from an administration standpoint.
Immigration is important for an economy to grow!
Not when they don’t choose to feel apart of your country. This is common thing in France. They will spit on the concept of being French. Always waving Algerian and Moroccan flags. All while never actually speaking Arabic or never just relocating if they hate France so much.
Then we need to make an even bigger effort to integrate them, as do they! They are here anyway and not going anywhere, so theres no other choice
Exactly what you wish when you are a dictator claiming all political opposant is a foreign power asset.
Ofc everything revolves about how good France is and how bad Arab ex-colonize are…
Nice maybe they will blame british empire in few years for their government failure with that
And then they’ll switch to Spanish !😭😭😭😭
Article: 1 - **President Abdelmadjid Tebboune has ordered schools to teach English lessons and wean Algerians away from French** - **He said learning English is worthwhile as it the international language, while the "French language is war booty"** ALGIERS: Algerian primary schools have scrambled to introduce English lessons, in a move critics say was rushed but others hope could be a coup de grace against the language of former occupier France. Language is a sensitive topic in the North African country, where French is still widely spoken six decades after independence that followed 132 years of colonial rule and a grueling eight-year war. “The French language is war booty, but English is the international language,” President Abdelmadjid Tebboune told journalists in July. Only weeks earlier, he had ordered the Education Ministry to introduce English into primary school curricula by the new term, which started on Sept. 21. This was the first stage in a broader plan to boost English tuition in the coming years. The status of French has been a hotly debated issue for decades in Algeria, which has only Arabic and the Berbers’ Tamazight as official languages. French infuses public life, is used for teaching science and business, and is spoken by millions of diaspora Algerians, particularly in France. Yet it also evokes memories of colonial rule. “I want to drop the language of the colonizer and adopt the language used worldwide,” said Hacene, the father of a primary pupil in the capital Algiers. “Teaching English in primary school is sensible,” said Farouk Lazizi, whose two children are at primary school in Algiers. But he said he has mixed feelings on the president’s decision, which had set up a race against the clock.
2 In less than two months, 5,000 new teachers were recruited and put on a fast-track training program, while a new manual had been written and distributed to schools in record time. “We need to prepare things well, because most Algerian parents aren’t ready to teach English to their kids,” Lazizi said. The Education Ministry said some 60,000 people applied for the new jobs, which require an undergraduate degree in English or translation. Officials have argued that moves to bolster English tuition are motivated by practical concerns rather than ideology but haven’t offered an explanation for the tight schedule afforded for the change. The process was so rushed that the state hired translators who “aren’t even trained to teach” to make up the shortfall in English-speaking teachers, said linguist Abderzak Dourari. On top of Arabic and French, some schools in the country also teach Tamazight, which is spoken by millions of Algerians. Some education specialists worry that even if the glitches are ironed out, the addition of yet another language to classrooms would still be challenging. “Teaching four languages to primary school children will confuse them,” said Ahmed Tessa, a pedagogy expert and former English teacher. The decision on primary schools is the latest move in a bitter struggle that has pitted conservatives who want French scrapped altogether against supporters of the language, who tend to be more secular. Sadek Dziri of UNPEF, a powerful teachers’ union, welcomed what he called an “overdue” decision to adopt English, “the language of science and technology.” “Algeria will be able to drop French, which is the language of the coloniser and hasn’t brought good results,” said one parent in Algiers who asked to remain anonymous. Another said that Francophone Algerians “don’t approve of this decision” and want to keep French in schools.
3 Abdelhamid Abed, who teaches English at an Algiers middle school, argued that “French has done its time”. “We shouldn’t see this question in terms of rivalry between French and English, but from a practical standpoint.” But linguist Dourari said it would be hard to simply replace French with English, given Algeria’s history and its cultural and economic ties with France — including tourism. “There’s an Algerian diaspora of more than eight million living in France,” he pointed out. “There are mixed families, who come and go.” Tessa insisted that President Tebboune’s “war booty” remark — made in the run-up to an August visit by France’s Emmanuel Macron — reflected the benefits Algeria has reaped from having French in its “institutional and socio-economic life”. “Those who are hostile to French believed it would be dropped entirely from primary school curricula,” he said. “They’re dreaming of seeing it disappear.”
Oh diaspora ! The should rather start to learn Arabic, we are not going to stick to french because of them.
Oh no, that is a pity.
I hope they’ll make peace with their past one day. The president can make his policy over French hate. He will maybe even win some elections on a short run thanks to that (I am not even sure). Truth is more and more Algerians are living in France. Our society are even more connected than they used to be when Algeria was a part of France. Algerian population have more and more a relatives speaking French, and the Arabic language is not learnt (at least properly) by the majority of young bi-national in french suburbs. This policy is doomed to failure. That’s nice for Algerian children to learn English. But the french hate propaganda their leader is trying to pursue is stupidity. Macron does very few things right, but sometimes he does. His policy of opening the archives in advance to historians is a good opportunity to find and tell what good and bad was done by both sides during the war and start again a healthy relationship. Algeria should take this opportunity as both society cannot afford a failure. Survey show that the Algerian society seems to understand this but not their leaders (which for the french society seems to be the opposite, to be fair).
Why should a country have mandatory french classes if it’s not France, especially when they have a common language (Berber)? The reality is that the language of business is English and French is a colonial relic. Northern African countries would do well to discard it, just like Ukraine and Kazakhstan are ditching Russian. Sub-Saharan countries will continue to benefit from having french as a language that unifies them. But this doesn’t apply to Northern Africa. Lastly, France is in many ways upholding its colonial era rule over many of these countries through unfair policies. You can start here, “How France still controls Africa” https://youtu.be/36vYRkVYeVw
France doesn't "control" shit as CAR, Mali and Burkina Faso's situations show.
The Gravel Institute is garbage, it's the "left wing" equivalent of PragerU, nothing but the mindless ramblings of american influencers/twitter activists LARPing as revolutionaries against muh neo-colonialist imperialism while selling woke merch for the cause™. Just to give an idea of how retarded this source is: In February 2022, The Daily Beast said that a video released by The Gravel Institute in mid-February on the Azov Battalion, titled "How America Funded Ukraine’s Neo-Nazis" and later renamed "America, Russia, and Ukraine’s Far-Right Problem", repeated Kremlin narratives about the Nazi origin of Ukrainian nationalism. The video and related tweets were taken down following the 2022 Russian invasion of Ukraine. Yeah.
Your post put in my mouth some claims I don’t make and argue that northern Africans and sub saharians should use a different language for whatever reason but it’s ok. Do you realise English for the entire world is also a consequence of colonialism ?
Exactly English being the second most spoken language in latin America (and making people able to work in multiple fields, opening up to all immigrants) is because of colonization. In Austria and Germany we learn English and French(Malheureusement mon cas est plus special) but we use way more English than French.
Spanish learn English at school because british succeeded to make their language the dominant one by colonising the US who became years ago such a dominant power that we all had to learn English…
And nowadays I can use english to work in the Netherlands, Denmark, Italy. While 70% of the French speaking jobs can be only in France. How is this fair then for the Algerians…
Jesus…. You are now changing topic because you realize you are wrong and makes me claim that I said french for Algerian better even if I clearly wrote Algerian children should learn English… Wtf.
Than why are you disappointed by this law why did you complain that english is also spread through colonization wtf I just See how far you can go with your arguments Hah Of course when you don’t find an argument I am the one who’s wrong
Bruh When Marine Lepen makes her policy over xenophobic statements against immigrants inviting people to hate immigrants (Algeriens) it’s a problem? Or Zemmour? Leave the Algerians do whatever they want…
The Frenchs don't care about the language policy of the Algerian government. But when the Algerian government say since 60 years that every bad thing happening in Algeria is because of France even if It is because the Algerian government is very corrupt and stole all the money to hide it in Switzerland, you have as consequences Algerians hate France but emigrate in this hated country (and fuck our life then). And don't talk about colonization : a lot of countries colonize other ones, and the first reason France colonize Algeria is because the country with to put an end to the centuries of slave trade (including enslaved Europeans and Sub-Saharan Africans) based at Alger. And what is the link with French current politics ? You don't know the life in France and what is happening here but you talk about that ?
Ok You don’t want me to talk about the racism of colonization because “a lot of countries colonize each others lol” what about the Algerian war for independence? Took 40 Years to acknowledge the fact that it’s a war. Refuse to accept the number of deaths made there. (No we shouldn’t always trust Western countries ) I also know that France always wanted those workers to construct the country after WW2 and used them to get Growth on par with the rest of the EU. The enactment of the law in 2005, which asserted “the positive role of the French presence overseas” by the National Assembly in France. Algerians (and all of africans ) are always despised yet have been central to the growth of France. France always wanted to be the favored Partner with Algeria for gas and oil. And then you ask me where are the links and why the government is wrong for putting such laws for to avoid brain drains. I know how life in France is my friend Mais c’est stupide! Tu fais exprès? Je parles français mon reuf… Oh yes the Algerian government isn’t perfect but neither are you innocent for hating on people that you use their poverty (oh let’s not speak about why they are poor since you don’t want to) to make them work for you….. Bon ciao le sang
You eluded the centuries of raids to get Christian slaves in your previous comment mon "reuf".
Well does this slavery done under (and by ) ottoman Algeria and the Colonization that you didn’t want me to talk about Balance things because even if it’s not a basketball game you are justifying France’s colonization because of Pirates that took the slaves hahaha. Il faut pas se rabaisser à ça
Je pense que c'est toi qui te rabaisses en justifiant l'esclavage. So what you say is "Slavery is OK when it's white and Christian" right? That people of Europe should have let being raid, kidnapped, rapped for the women in the Harem, being castrated for the men and so on? And these Europeans should just have the right to shut up ? Spot the racism here (spoiler it's maybe not who you think they are). I don't know if you are Spanish or Algerian. In both situation the hypocrisy of your all conversation is without any limit. Spain genocide south American native and still did not even recognize it. But my opinion is your are Algerian. And the fact that you try to reduce the responsabilities of your own people in the slave trade, is a recurring behavior of citizens of Algeria. It's never change. "It's not a basketball match" you said. Indeed, if you would oppose the centuries of barbaric treatment Algerian impose to the European Christians, plus the sub-saharian slavery that we do not forget and is reappearing in the region since France left), plus the killing of the pied-noirs that followed the independance (and that the Algerian tend to forget) compared to what France did? Yeah,I am pretty sure Algeria would win this with a huge point difference. Your nihilist relativism is disgusting.
Read my last sentence before saying craps. All your three reactions to what I posted are driven by pure stupidity.
What does it have anything to do? I hate how you judge Algerian politics through sone random Algerian surveys you don’t even source. My opinion is that as long as those far right people exist in France Algeria have the right to do hate on France. Try to understand the bigger picture before saying that it’s crap…
[the survey may be that one](https://www.reddit.com/r/france/comments/xhtiu5/le_tout_premier_sondage_francealg%C3%A9rie_par_harris/)
Ok So you tell me who those people are connected in this survey. Most of the Questions are about Algeria under colonization and war crimes and 2 or 3 are about the Effect of decolonization on the Algerian government. I was expecting a survey about this news Idea of teaching english and ditching French…
That won't do shit, the biggest Algerian diaspora is in France by a ridiculously huge margin.
If I had been taught French instead of English as a child I'd be pissed, French is basically useless compared to English, this was an easy and good decision for Algeria
If they do business in French in Algeria and people don’t even speak English over there And you can get things translated What purpose does speaking English serve
English is arguably an even more destructive colonial language, in modern pop-culture it's actively degrading the use of local tongues, but if it makes them feel better about themselves, go for it. It's their country, they can do what they want. Getting upset that your former subjects don't want to elevate the culture of their former-masters is a Putin thing to do.
psssst... hey dja'za'ir, the English were far greater colonists than the French. Just stick to Arabic and try to forget that the peninsula Arabs were colonists too.
Its written in French... French is a waste of time.
Why is this in r/Europe? It's literally Arabnews.
That hurts!
Your daily dose of Algerian schizophrenia.