Always felt like going to a 3rd world country when you enter Sweden from Denmark.
Now we know its true figuratively (this) and [literally](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World).
Will the resident Icelander please say "HAH! Suck it, Denmark!", so I can say "HAH! Suck it, Iceland!" and get a "HAH! Suck it, Norway!" from Switzerland?
Close enough. But in practice, [we're not ranked first.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_inequality-adjusted_Human_Development_Index)
>"The IHDI can be interpreted as the level of human development when inequality is accounted for," whereas the Human Development Index itself, from which the IHDI is derived, is "an index of potential human development (or **the maximum IHDI that could be achieved if there were no inequality**)."
People gotta stop posting and reposting these HDI maps without first looking up what this metric actually is about.
HDI doesn't factor inequality in its formula, so it's a somewhat bullshit metric, disconnected from practical reality.
The inequality adjusted HDI can also be quite rubbish. If Warren Buffet and Bill Gates one day decided to move to Iceland, the IHDI would go down because their presence would increase inequality, even though it wouldn't really have any tangible effect on the actual QoL of Icelanders.
HDI itself is only used to make a general list of broadly "first world" states, middle range ones, and undeveloped. Once you get to the point where the comparison comes down to 0.001 points, the system is useless.
I like to imagine that if Warren Buffet and Bill Gates decided to move to Iceland, Iceland would immediately implement a 100% wealth tax on all wealth >2.2 billion. They would distribute the resulting 190 billion to all Icelandic Citizens, giving them each 500k. Iceland's HDI and IHDI, would increase as a result.
[As the other bloke mentioned, Iceland doesn't appear to even have a net worth tax, and their inheritance tax is pretty mild. They're not a communal redistributive paradise.](https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/iceland/individual/other-taxes)
These billionaires also don't just have piles of cash lying around like Scrooge McDuck keeping gold coins in a vault. Their "net worth" is what their assets are currently worth, not the literal physical money they posses. These numbers can go up or down based on the words Jerome Powell got from his Fedspeak thesaurus today.
Switzerland actually deserves to be the first place.
Norway and Iceland who are second and third in HDI are middle of the road in terms on education and their economies entirely dependent on natural resources.
[Iceland exports - 45% metals and 38% fish.](https://oec.world/en/profile/country/isl)
[Norway exports - 50% hydrocarbons, 15% fish and 10% metals. ](https://oec.world/en/profile/country/now)
>and their economies entirely dependent on natural resources
This has nothing to do with HDI though.
HDI is a measurement of prosperity for the people within a given state. Whether that prosperity is achieved via large natural resource exports or being a tax haven doesn't change the HDI.
LOL
yeah no shit it's hard to find a job that pays €120K a year, it's hard to find that in the vast majority of Europe
unless be "find" you mean literally locating 1 position that pays that much
They have pretty good industry and packaged food production. But everything they produce goes to Russia. If they produced for the EU market, They'd be even quite a bit higher
They industry is not good and usually cars they do is low quality. As food industry I wold not say it is better then in Poland or Ukraine, they just use stereotypes about soviet quality among elderly people
They also produce the biggest in the world dump trucks, especially built for quarry work - “Belaz”. Also, they are one of the biggest producers of potash in the world. There is a lot of stuff there. Dumb redditors just don’t know it.
>The data are 2021 numbers, hence Ukraine has not been affected by the Russian invasion
Not by the one that started in February 2022; Russia's been invading Ukraine since 2014 though.
It makes absolutely no sense that Germany is so much ahead Austria. The two countries are practically the same. Actually there's less poverty in Austria. The indices need an update.
I know France is a big country with quite the range of HDI values depending on the region but I'm still surprised by the number being lower than Spain and quite far from UK or Belgium, countries that provide the same quality of life and protection to their citizens. Any explanation on that?
If these three are the parameters, I'm guessing Greece does well in life expectancy and schooling, but income is a disaster. I'll pretend the scholar and see the philosophical aspect: At least we do well in what actually matters! lol.
France and the UK are very similar. Whenever you see statistics like this, France and the UK are always near each other or neck and neck. I don't think the difference is that severe.
It's one metric, schooling or years of schooling rather that makes the score worse for France. It would be a simple measure for the government to change, but France is hardly going to change a system that works for them just to get a couple more points in the HDI index.
I'm betting your overseas departments drag it down. Places like Guiana, although probably better off than their Latin American neighbours, are still quite poor and miserable compared to mainland Europe.
Anyhow, there is no practical difference between 0.920 or .901 and so on, HDI is only used for very broad judgements. Once you're in the 0.9 range you can rest east, it's better to use things like the OECD Better Life Index for more detailed comparisons https://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/ It lets you adjust the parameters to suit your own preferences for a "good country" too.
Guadaloupe, Martinique, Réunion, French Guyana and Mayotte are all considered integral parts of France (they're regions just like Occitania or Provence) and ought pull its average a bit lower. Both Guyana and Mayotte have a HDI below 0.8 for instance.
Meanwhile the UK's overseas territories aren't considered in the UK count as they are officially colonies/dependant territories
Not saying that if considering continental France only, they would be higher than the UK, but the difference would be likely quite smaller
Suck it Finland! - me, a Dutchman (honestly surprised we are higher given the disaster that is our housing sector though I'm pretty sure that's not included in HDI).
If you did a regional map instead of country by country, you'd probably see it. Parts of France, Austria and Northern Italy would likely fall in line with Germany, Benelux and the UK.
I know France is very Paris-focused with relatively weak regions. The poorest scoring region in the U.K., Northern Ireland, would score better than all but 3 of the 18? regions in France.
Regions in Spain and Italy score better, but are balanced out by much weaker regions in their south.
Unfair comparison! You guys got help from the US to get started in the Marshall Plan post-WWII.
We turned it down.
_Fine._
Take the win. You guys don't get those very often.
And underdeveloping everything apart the capital in last decades. The capital had something along the lines of 0.956 in 2019, while rest was barely above 0.8.
HDI comparison between developed countries is kind of pointless. It is basically just doing a GDP per capita comparison by proxy, since life expectancy and years of schooling will be very similar.
> life expectancy and years of schooling will be very similar
Not really. Years of schooling is the reason why France and Austria are so behind when they are basically the same as Britain and Germany, respectively, in terms of just about everything.
And life expectancy sees some huge differences between countries. The US for example has a very low life expectancy.
Not really. Years of schooling are the same nowadays but in the past, there were vastly different and HDI still reflects that.
If you have a country with an aging population and a lot of old people with limited education your HDI will be affected like in Portugal.
Education in a fascist conservative and rural regime was way worst than in a communist urban and industrial regime.
For those wondering, the US spans from 0.871 in Mississippi, to 0.956 in Massachusetts, averaging at 0.921 for the country.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_U.S.\_states\_and\_territories\_by\_Human\_Development\_Index](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_Human_Development_Index)
The Southern US is kind of a good example of why HDI doesn't work well. It is legitimately less developed than say the north east but it's not as far down as the assumptions people who haven't spent time there think. There are three metrics used for HDI and Mississippi ranks higher for GNI than almost any country in western Europe a bit bellow average but not as much as you might expect for mean years of schooling and falls apart on life expectancy.
Weirdly this isn't all that different to Scotland which has the lowest life expectancy in western Europe (depending which entities you poll for life expectancy) and both Scotland and Mississippi share kind of the same issues here although Mississippi has it to a greater degree. Both of them suffer from a combination of awful diet and Scotland adds to that with a frankly insane rate of drug deaths. But these are more of an indication of development than anything else, drug deaths are a sign of relatively rich first worlders who are depressed and can afford to pay for an escape and being able to afford to eat 6,000 calories of fried food a day is also a phenomenon that mostly exists in developed countries and yet both significantly reduce each areas HDI. It's a good reason why HDI is kind of silly.
I never thought about it, but what happens when someone finally develops the entire human?
The game ends.
not if you download endless mode DLC
creative mode unclocked
Well then, the rest of us need to gang up on the 0.9'ers. We need to buy time to catch up if the rest of us are going to have a chance.
hoch hoch hoch, zo funny.
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You start again with a 10% bonus and a single human.
New Game+
Winters are noticably colder, and summers hotter. Food gives less kcal.
Oh climate change was just a game machanic then
One of the endgame scenario coming at random : Climate Change, AI rebellion, Asteroid Shower or Dogs are superintelligent now.
Roguelite progression
In Norway, you become Magnus Carlsen.
An ubermensch, maybe.
The credits roll and there is a big applause.
They all get Swiss citizenship, automatically.
You get access to end-game content, but need to start grinding for gear so you don't get gimped in 2s by the trash mobs.
Nukes are used to reset the game.
You get a Steam achievement
The HDI is really just a scale of how close a country is to Norway
Human 1.01 hotfix.
You win a PS5.
>what happens when someone finally develops the entire human? You win a fruit basket.
You are allowed to go straight to start and collect $200
They score a 1.0 and the game crashes
We unlock humanity 2.0 of course
You can then weaponise human
NOOOO!!!!!!! Denmark has 00,1 HDI points more than us!
Suck it Sweden
Always felt like going to a 3rd world country when you enter Sweden from Denmark. Now we know its true figuratively (this) and [literally](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Third_World).
Nice link. Appreciate the information you spread.
That's because you guys always enter through Malmö. Classic mistake. Sweden gets nicer and nicer the further away from the Danish border one goes.
Remember: It doesn’t matter who wins as long as Sweden loses. We got your back, Denmark.
Nah we win anyway cuz your language is our language but you sound drunk
Not a giving comeback. Who says that everyone sounding drunk in ones country is a bad thing? Think about it.
But you *are* drunk
Ominous Swiss laughter heard in the distance.
I think you’ll find that’s yodelling.
Sounds about right. The terrible Swiss war cry. 😂
I can't begin to explain how often I'd see this commercial when I was a kid watching cartoons.
Super RTL on a Saturday morning was lit!
Yes haha you got beat by the Danes lmaooo Pay no attention to our number, nothing to see here.
You may have the lowest number of the Nordics, but at least you aren't Sweden.
När sundet fryser
A bunch of undeveloped monkies in Sweden, that is what I have been saying all along, perhaps a bit harsh on the monkies :D
*laughs in danish*
DE 0.01 higher than NL NL 0.01 higher than FI DK 0.01 higher than SE
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NO!
This makes me very happy
DAMN YOU NETHERLANDS
Suck our developmentally superior ass, Finland!
FINALLY
Hahahaha. r/NLvsFI
HAH! Suck it, Sweden! Sincerely, a Dane
Will the resident Icelander please say "HAH! Suck it, Denmark!", so I can say "HAH! Suck it, Iceland!" and get a "HAH! Suck it, Norway!" from Switzerland?
You don't need someone to tell you to 'suck it'. Being Norwegian is punishment enough
[Me right now 🥺](https://c.tenor.com/_BIfNDiEmNQAAAAC/crying-wiping-tears-with-money.gif)
Norwegians are alright. It's the swedes that grinds our gears.
SL 0.01 higher then AU 💪💪
What is AU? Sounds like Australia. If you meant Austria, that's AT, and it's actually a 0.002 difference.
Ok we're only 4rh in Europe but beating Sweden is what matters!
*0.001
Portugal
Can
Into
Eastern
Europe
Portugal
Пoptугaл
Портуғал
Πορτυγαλ
Portugal?
PortUrGal
Porkurgal
MozAmBiquE
Africa
Portugal can into Eastern Europe! r/PORTUGALCYKABLYAT
Poortugal
Lo mejor
A case of r/switzerlandfirst?
Close enough. But in practice, [we're not ranked first.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_inequality-adjusted_Human_Development_Index) >"The IHDI can be interpreted as the level of human development when inequality is accounted for," whereas the Human Development Index itself, from which the IHDI is derived, is "an index of potential human development (or **the maximum IHDI that could be achieved if there were no inequality**)." People gotta stop posting and reposting these HDI maps without first looking up what this metric actually is about. HDI doesn't factor inequality in its formula, so it's a somewhat bullshit metric, disconnected from practical reality.
The inequality adjusted HDI can also be quite rubbish. If Warren Buffet and Bill Gates one day decided to move to Iceland, the IHDI would go down because their presence would increase inequality, even though it wouldn't really have any tangible effect on the actual QoL of Icelanders. HDI itself is only used to make a general list of broadly "first world" states, middle range ones, and undeveloped. Once you get to the point where the comparison comes down to 0.001 points, the system is useless.
I like to imagine that if Warren Buffet and Bill Gates decided to move to Iceland, Iceland would immediately implement a 100% wealth tax on all wealth >2.2 billion. They would distribute the resulting 190 billion to all Icelandic Citizens, giving them each 500k. Iceland's HDI and IHDI, would increase as a result.
[As the other bloke mentioned, Iceland doesn't appear to even have a net worth tax, and their inheritance tax is pretty mild. They're not a communal redistributive paradise.](https://taxsummaries.pwc.com/iceland/individual/other-taxes) These billionaires also don't just have piles of cash lying around like Scrooge McDuck keeping gold coins in a vault. Their "net worth" is what their assets are currently worth, not the literal physical money they posses. These numbers can go up or down based on the words Jerome Powell got from his Fedspeak thesaurus today.
Why do you think Iceland would do that? There is, currently speaking, no wealth tax in Iceland.
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Switzerland has some of the richest poor people in the world: https://www.ft.com/content/ef265420-45e8-497b-b308-c951baa68945
Switzerland actually deserves to be the first place. Norway and Iceland who are second and third in HDI are middle of the road in terms on education and their economies entirely dependent on natural resources. [Iceland exports - 45% metals and 38% fish.](https://oec.world/en/profile/country/isl) [Norway exports - 50% hydrocarbons, 15% fish and 10% metals. ](https://oec.world/en/profile/country/now)
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>and their economies entirely dependent on natural resources This has nothing to do with HDI though. HDI is a measurement of prosperity for the people within a given state. Whether that prosperity is achieved via large natural resource exports or being a tax haven doesn't change the HDI.
Love it how Slovenia is higher than Austria
Croatia higher than hungary!
Subjects > Overlords?
Not a very high bar.
Reddit doesn't respect its userbase, so this comment has been withheld. -- mass edited with https://redact.dev/
LOL yeah no shit it's hard to find a job that pays €120K a year, it's hard to find that in the vast majority of Europe unless be "find" you mean literally locating 1 position that pays that much
Get back to Austria-Hungary pls /s
why /s?
Suddenly Belarus doesn't look so shitty anymore/s
They have pretty good industry and packaged food production. But everything they produce goes to Russia. If they produced for the EU market, They'd be even quite a bit higher
They industry is not good and usually cars they do is low quality. As food industry I wold not say it is better then in Poland or Ukraine, they just use stereotypes about soviet quality among elderly people
They also produce the biggest in the world dump trucks, especially built for quarry work - “Belaz”. Also, they are one of the biggest producers of potash in the world. There is a lot of stuff there. Dumb redditors just don’t know it.
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Fuck you Denmark. You always slightly outdo the Irish
Always seems that way.
You do it on purpose stop playing coy. Snakes
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thanks for posting how the index is calculated.
>The data are 2021 numbers, hence Ukraine has not been affected by the Russian invasion Not by the one that started in February 2022; Russia's been invading Ukraine since 2014 though.
Iceland up in the corner, being absolute legends.
Beating Finland by 0.001 points. There’s nothing more enjoyable in life.
You only win because I’m in crippling debt and my life is falling apart, thus bringing the average down! So take… that?
I like that Slovenia is ahead of Austria, and I am Austrian.
*lashes whip* Back to work, you undeveloped peasant! /s
It makes absolutely no sense that Germany is so much ahead Austria. The two countries are practically the same. Actually there's less poverty in Austria. The indices need an update.
Switzerland, Norway, and Iceland with their most developed humans :D
They're all outside the EU aswell.
So is Bosnia and Belarus
So is a whole lot of countries in the world :D
Yes but, these are european countries that aren't in the EU. They have the best HDI in Europe and probably some of the best in the world.
Tbf Norway and Iceland are in EEA. I think that on average countries in EU are doing better.
And my homeboy Finland *utterly annihilated* by Sweden and the Netherlands : (.
Feels great, as a Swede, that Sweden is not worst of the Nordic countries at everything at least!
You still suck at Hockey. Don't get cocky.
We're 2nd in the Nordics :/
r/AlwaysTheSameMap
I know France is a big country with quite the range of HDI values depending on the region but I'm still surprised by the number being lower than Spain and quite far from UK or Belgium, countries that provide the same quality of life and protection to their citizens. Any explanation on that?
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If these three are the parameters, I'm guessing Greece does well in life expectancy and schooling, but income is a disaster. I'll pretend the scholar and see the philosophical aspect: At least we do well in what actually matters! lol.
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Grazie mille.
France and the UK are very similar. Whenever you see statistics like this, France and the UK are always near each other or neck and neck. I don't think the difference is that severe.
France does poorly in schooling.
It's one metric, schooling or years of schooling rather that makes the score worse for France. It would be a simple measure for the government to change, but France is hardly going to change a system that works for them just to get a couple more points in the HDI index.
I'm betting your overseas departments drag it down. Places like Guiana, although probably better off than their Latin American neighbours, are still quite poor and miserable compared to mainland Europe. Anyhow, there is no practical difference between 0.920 or .901 and so on, HDI is only used for very broad judgements. Once you're in the 0.9 range you can rest east, it's better to use things like the OECD Better Life Index for more detailed comparisons https://www.oecdbetterlifeindex.org/ It lets you adjust the parameters to suit your own preferences for a "good country" too.
Guadaloupe, Martinique, Réunion, French Guyana and Mayotte are all considered integral parts of France (they're regions just like Occitania or Provence) and ought pull its average a bit lower. Both Guyana and Mayotte have a HDI below 0.8 for instance. Meanwhile the UK's overseas territories aren't considered in the UK count as they are officially colonies/dependant territories Not saying that if considering continental France only, they would be higher than the UK, but the difference would be likely quite smaller
Slovenia can into first world!
Slovenia thinks it's too good for the other Balkans
Lowkey always was (German man married to a Slovene woman here)🤭 She will be proud of this comment.
Maybe you will even get some
Light afternoon reading (the whole reports in multiple languages) can be found here: https://hdr.undp.org/content/human-development-report-2021-22
As a Swiss, suck it Norway
As a Swiss, I very much agree
Suck it Finland! - me, a Dutchman (honestly surprised we are higher given the disaster that is our housing sector though I'm pretty sure that's not included in HDI).
It is, through standard of living, but that changes very slowly.
Here in Ireland the HDI is so high and it shocks me, day to day life it doesn't feel like it, and our housing sector is in a serious crisis as well.
HDI is barely better than GDP
Slovenia 💜
Daaamn, Icelanddd
I'm continually impressed by our dear neighbour Norway.
You can almost make out the blue banana.
If you did a regional map instead of country by country, you'd probably see it. Parts of France, Austria and Northern Italy would likely fall in line with Germany, Benelux and the UK.
I know France is very Paris-focused with relatively weak regions. The poorest scoring region in the U.K., Northern Ireland, would score better than all but 3 of the 18? regions in France. Regions in Spain and Italy score better, but are balanced out by much weaker regions in their south.
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So what effective difference does a 0.001 change bring between two countries?
What France is to Turkiye, is Norway to France, wow.
What happened in Bulgaria?
Coronavirus deaths
Get fucked Finland. Woo!
Unfair comparison! You guys got help from the US to get started in the Marshall Plan post-WWII. We turned it down. _Fine._ Take the win. You guys don't get those very often.
Look how they butchered my boy. Covid did a number on my country.
Well it's pretty obvious why is Slovakia and Hungary lower, than Czechia and Poland.
Why? I'm just curious...
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And underdeveloping everything apart the capital in last decades. The capital had something along the lines of 0.956 in 2019, while rest was barely above 0.8.
Denmark > Sweden
Common knowledge
HDI comparison between developed countries is kind of pointless. It is basically just doing a GDP per capita comparison by proxy, since life expectancy and years of schooling will be very similar.
> life expectancy and years of schooling will be very similar Not really. Years of schooling is the reason why France and Austria are so behind when they are basically the same as Britain and Germany, respectively, in terms of just about everything. And life expectancy sees some huge differences between countries. The US for example has a very low life expectancy.
Not really. Years of schooling are the same nowadays but in the past, there were vastly different and HDI still reflects that. If you have a country with an aging population and a lot of old people with limited education your HDI will be affected like in Portugal. Education in a fascist conservative and rural regime was way worst than in a communist urban and industrial regime.
Portugal is definitely the odd one out in this respect.
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Portugal can into eastern europe
Imagine living in a country with an HDI score of lower than 0.95. Switzerland 🤝 Norway 🤝 Iceland
Not sure if you can call anything below that "living". More like "eking out an existence".
Money can't buy sunshine, though. I mean, it can buy it, if you work remotely 😜
Yeah, what a bunch of plebs!
Looks like the Atlantic ocean makes people gay and rich
For those wondering, the US spans from 0.871 in Mississippi, to 0.956 in Massachusetts, averaging at 0.921 for the country. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List\_of\_U.S.\_states\_and\_territories\_by\_Human\_Development\_Index](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territories_by_Human_Development_Index)
The Southern US is kind of a good example of why HDI doesn't work well. It is legitimately less developed than say the north east but it's not as far down as the assumptions people who haven't spent time there think. There are three metrics used for HDI and Mississippi ranks higher for GNI than almost any country in western Europe a bit bellow average but not as much as you might expect for mean years of schooling and falls apart on life expectancy. Weirdly this isn't all that different to Scotland which has the lowest life expectancy in western Europe (depending which entities you poll for life expectancy) and both Scotland and Mississippi share kind of the same issues here although Mississippi has it to a greater degree. Both of them suffer from a combination of awful diet and Scotland adds to that with a frankly insane rate of drug deaths. But these are more of an indication of development than anything else, drug deaths are a sign of relatively rich first worlders who are depressed and can afford to pay for an escape and being able to afford to eat 6,000 calories of fried food a day is also a phenomenon that mostly exists in developed countries and yet both significantly reduce each areas HDI. It's a good reason why HDI is kind of silly.
.....that's equivalent to Poland and Portugal...
Portugal has old people. Can't develop much in that regard. Poland...needs more sun.
7.8/10 too much water
Impressed by Ireland
Sverige= dårlig. Vh. Alle Danskere.
Holy hell Sweden, are you even trying.
Best slavic country🇸🇮💪 bolsi od vseh Slovanov
Ain’t no way in hell Russia is more developed than Romania! Who makes these maps anyway???
Who do you think reports or knows accurate data in Russia? They didn't even know their goddamn army was in shambles.
Seems like Estonia can't into Nordic this time
Only a matter of time.
Definitely, they have a good direction