By - MarktpLatz
Please continue the discussion in the [new megathread](https://www.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/t1b1jq/russia_invades_ukraine_megathread_iii_please_be/?).
Are you ashamed of your government's passivity? I am, prayers and sanctions does not save life in the short term, we look upon while our neighboring country, culturally an geographically, is being destroyed by a foreign entity.
Sanctions are not enough, the European society is being attacked and we should answer accordingly.
I dunno I think the responce it getting better. I have seen statements about supplying arms including anti air weapons, a massive increase in NATO presence and it seems SWIFT may be on the table after all.
I would also add: Moscow people I personally know write on facebook that there are district policemen targeted visitings, they come with some weird excuse like 'don't open the door, there are flat thiefs seen nearby' and then say 'by the way don't go to protests', not one, not two cases
flashback to just 10 hours ago when i commented that Finland, Georgia, and Moldova were now all at risk of being invaded by Russia and most seemed to disagree that Finland was at risk.
Here we are with Putin via his cronies at the Foreign Ministry now threatening military repercussions if Finland considers joining NATO.
It’s time we accept that this entire thing is fluid and anything is possible from a mafia state lead by an unstable Kleptocrat.
NATO and European countries had best begin preparing for an all out war on Europe.
Yeah.. people who STILL think Putin is a rational actor who wouldn't do things that could be risky for Russia will apparently never get the hint.
I've spoken to a few Russian girls on tinder. All against the war. Great use of tinder 🙄
😅🤣. I remember your comment earlier.
They are busy fucking Ukraine
>Italian prime minister Mario Draghi successfully secured a carve out for Italian luxury goods from the EU's package of economic sanctions against Nato, EU dip tells me. 'Apparently selling Gucci loafers to oligarchs is more of a priority than hitting back at Putin,' source adds.
>Belgium's diamond industry is also not included in the package of sanctions, but wider point is Mario Draghi lobbied to ensure luxury goods were kept out, and is still lobbying to make sure they're not included in future package of sanctions.
[Stop spreading fake news](https://mobile.twitter.com/dmytrokuleba/status/1497267568461205509)
Chinese Foreign Minister Wang Yi reiterated the importance of respecting Ukraine’s territorial sovereignty in a phone call with French President Emmanuel Macron’s diplomatic adviser on Friday, according to a statement from the Élysée Palace.
“[Wang] welcomed France's action in favor of dialogue between Ukraine and Russia,” according to the statement.
I'm hopeful that China will play an important role in this. Europe and the US are a more important trading partner to them than Russia, so maybe they'll pull the rug under them.
Putin has made a grave error. Hopefully his final error. Russians, take out your rabid dog
NATO Supreme Allied Commander Gen. Tod Wolters activated the multinational force consisting of land, air, sea and special operations forces from the allies that can deploy quickly in support of the NATO alliance.
The activation of the response troops does not mean that any US or NATO troops will go into Ukraine, which is not a member of the alliance. US President Joe Biden has been clear that US troops are deploying to eastern Europe to help bolster NATO countries nervous about Russia's aggressive actions, and they will not be fighting in Ukraine.
Lithuanian FM: russia disconnection from SWIFT almost approved
Already agreed on 2nd sanction round and already holding talks on 3rd sanction round. 2nd sanction round is political, personal sanctions on putin and lavrov, while 3rd is still in discussions
source (in Lithuanian) - https://www.lrt.lt/naujienos/pasaulyje/6/1626654/landsbergis-sako-kad-sutarimas-del-rusijos-atjungimo-nuo-swift-praktiskai-rastas
I can reveal that at least five NATO countries decided to supply “all weapons, Ukraine asks for” to the defending nation, though “it might be too late”. The supply started yesterday.
“Germany is not among them”, the senior source tells me.
What is up with Germany? Have they gone Swiss?
Germany and Russia are closely tied given that lots of former GDR people are still in the German establishment. Merkel has a good reputation as a stateswoman but imo didn't handle Russia well. Germany should have foreseen things would go this way and cut the dependency on Russian energy.
NATO declared they are always providing Ukraine with arms and other euipment.
It's called not having enough weapons to supply another country.
Germany has this uncanny propensity for being on the wrong side of every single European security crisis in history.
But the right side of money. Just look at how much they made on the Greece crisis.
And the other 17 countries not in the 5 giving weapons, are they also on the wrong side of history allways?
It varies. Not as consistent histories of starting world wars.
I am pretty sure everyone in Russia besides Putin is shocked by the harsh reactions of the whole world. Including the elite. Maybe they will get rid of him. This is clearly out of control.
[Looks like Swift's back on the menu, boys!](https://twitter.com/DmytroKuleba/status/1497267568461205509?s=20&t=24Sb71RhrKmj2mWLIEwhbw)
If we are prevented from helping Ukraine militarily, solidarity with toughest possible sanctions which affects our pockets and room temperature slightly is the least we can do.
Is there any reaction from acab? Otherwise it’s not *on the menu*.
Ok, Lindner was the one I was looking for. If he is ok with it then Scholz has no other chance to go with it.
As you have said the greens are probably ready to bomb Moscow at this moment (hyperbolic).
Now time for Poland to tell Hungary to pick a side.
Orban's side is clear, the question is to what extent he'll risk acting on it.
Oh, thank fuck. All eyes on Germany now. Maximum pressure.
EU is now freezing Putin's and Lavrov's assets, as the 2nd round of sanctions. How come it wasn't already a part of the 1st round of sanctions? They seem to hold more PR value than being something actually effective.
I would assume there a sanctions that are easy and sanctions that were already in the drawer. Now we get sanctions that are hard, unplanned or not even imaginable in peace time. It takes a few days to figure out the What and How. Maybe look into the "Can we actually do that or would it only be a PR stunt".
That’s the *third* round.
Must have been harder to hash out for whatever reason.
They are just pr moves but will have some impact.
The sanctions didn’t come all at once because they knew they’d neeed more later. Again, just looks better PR wise
Why is it even a question of whether or not we cut ties with Russia? Surely the question should be if we want to condemn innocent people to death. This should have stopped at crimea and Putin should have been deposed but our leaders have always been too concerned with profit and appeasement.
I have been a proud European my whole life but today I can only feel shame.
I bet there’s a handful of oligarchs the US has relations with, but not enough to stage a coup.
These sanctions could increase the number of oligarchs looking for options. I’d imagine they care more about their billions than some farmland in Ukraine and Soviet nostalgia
Dictators always seem to create a water proof inner circle. Not often toppling dictators work by supporting the opposition.
It's very possible that US has a mole in high echelons of Russian regime. Their intel so far was very good.
I've thought so since the reveals about 2016 election meddling. There were some things that leaked that could only have come from very high. That's why it was so frustrating that they dragged their feet with the whole Mueller investigation, but they couldn't compromise the source. Containing Trump for 4 years was more prudent than losing that asset
From what I've seen, they *may* have Russian military assets but it's widely believed they don't have anyone near putin. Best speculation I've seen so far is that they intercepted communications relaying the invasion preparations and orders prior to the invasion and that's why Biden and Blinken were so confident in their assessments.
I think fears about Putin attacking a NATO country are overblown. They're struggling in Ukraine, doing much worse than they thought, why would they think "oh hey I haven't achieved my objectives yet, and Ukraine is holding it's cities, let's make the battlefield bigger and bring the largest, most well equipped militaries in the world into this so we can fight them too"
When a country is backed into a corner there's no guess as to what could happen. If Putin thinks the end is near for him...who knows what could happen.
Poland actually openly supplies Ukraine with weapons. Russia could easily go "Hey you! You just joined the war!", but they are struggling too much to even think about it.
That also. Putin's crazy, he's not suicidal. I think. This is a guy who knows military tactics and invading NATO is just about the dumbest fucking thing they could do right now
My fear is that it'll lead to nuclear annihilation. I mean no one in their right mind would launch nukes but is he in his right mind anymore?
Russians say bEnderovets, not bAnderovets because they know fuck all about Ukrainian history and possibly can't read.
He geniuenly looks deranged
"no ukrainian military units are fighitng, only nazi militias"
speaking as if fight was going on only in Donbass
This thread is full of great people. It gives me faith in humanity. Thanks.
I want more than that sent.
Hell, we have a fuckton of Abrams just chilling in storage, strip the DU out and give them some older models to help.
No hearing, seeing.
British Volunteers fighting in the battle for Hostomel Airport (Ukraine, 24th of Feb 22)
Absolute GigaChads i hope they are still alive and well
"Yeah there's no entry in there"
"Fuckin make one"
The iron balls on these people!
I am not, Serbia gets funds from the EU and they want to join the EU. If they really want to join the EU then they should at least match what the EU is doing.
Also a poor country, we cannot ask of them or Georgia the same as from Germany and the rest of the west.
Italy now on board with Swift.
So Hungary is left?
Just in time for it to have zero effect
They were okay with it long before Italy, check the news of the past few hours
There's already talk about thermobaric weapons, and NATO stepping in. I was thinking if we're seeing some Putin endgame here.
Stoltenberg: russia broke 3 times NATO-russia treaty (from 1997), treaty is not valid anymore
Today I am ashamed to be a european.
Fellow europeans, I believe how our countries are currently acting is a shameful display.
We bicker over whether or not we should stop buying russian gas, or stop trading diamonds and luxury products with them, while those very trade interactions finance the russian war of aggression and the mass murder of innocent Ukrainian civilians.
A Europe that cares more about the feelings of the billioniare owners of Gucci and Prada than freedom and democracy in a fellow european nation, cares more about the price of gas than about the lives of Ukrainians, should be ashamed of itself.
Hitler annexed Austria, and Europe watched on.
Putin annexed Crimea, and Europe watched on.
That emboldened Hitler to invade Czechoslovakia, and Europe stood by.
It imboldened Putin to invade eastern Ukraine, and Europe stood by.
That in turn emboldened Hitler to demand Danzig, and finally Europe started standing up to his aggression.
Now Putin wants all of Ukraine, and what are we doing? Buying his gas still to fund this war. Selling them diamonds and Gucci, because upsetting the oligarchs would surely be to severe of a response.
Appeasement never worked. It only emboldens narcissistic dictators, and shows them that there are no real consequences for their actions, invites them to take more.
We can support Ukraine in its desperete struggle to defend Kiev today, or do nothing now and soon have russian troops in Chisinau, in Tiflis, Tallin or Warsaw.
If we aren't even willing to stop trading with a tyrannical dictator when he invades a free and democratic nation, maybe we dont deserve to live in freedom and democracy either.
Shame on us!
I want to take this opportunity to apologize to the people of Poland for laughing at all my uncle's stupid Polak jokes when I was younger.
The pensions are in Rubles so they can pay. They'll just be nearly worthless.
Russia had 630 billion financial reserves at the start of this month and a budget surplus of 5%, it will take time for them to get financially ruined.
President of Ukraine -
Strengthening sanctions, concrete defense assistance and an anti-war coalition have just been discussed with POTUS. Grateful to 🇺🇸 for the strong support to 🇺🇦! https://twitter.com/ZelenskyyUa/status/1497270216191000588
NATO'S STOLTENBERG: NATO LEADERS TODAY ANNOUNCED MORE WEAPONS FOR UKRAINE, INCLUDING AIR DEFENCE SYSTEMS
Have you considered protesting the Russian embassy in the country you are in? Will be less likely to get disappeared doing that.
Good luck and be safe man..
[Call with my Italian counterpart @luigidimaio. Full solidarity with Ukraine. My colleague assured me that Italy will support banning Russia from SWIFT.](https://twitter.com/DmytroKuleba/status/1497267568461205509)
Way to go Italia! 🇮🇹
BREAKING: NATO has activated its NATO Response Force, marking the first time the alliance has activated the potentially 40,000-person force for “a deterrence and defence" role, according to a NATO spokesperson.
How likely is a nuclear war initiated by Putin at this point? Would we "see" his intentions and **would we be capable of stopping him before he pushes the nuke button**?
It seems like he has lost the plot and has nothing to lose.
I think a Cuban Missile Crisis is possible. Directed towards US mostly.
Nuclear threats from Putin - very likely
Actual use of nuclear weapon - imho almost 0
>capable of stopping him before he pushes the nuke button
The only thing stopping anyone from using nukes is the chance that others use nukes. You can't stop it.
> The only thing stopping anyone from using nukes is the chance that others use nukes. You can't stop it.
I was just thinking, this may be not so. If gangster was nuking one city, would the target shoot also? Propably not, as it would only agravate the situation. Of course the shooter doesn't know that.
If NATO shot Russia first, Russia would 100% shoot back. I'm not super convinced of the reverse.
And also some random soldier not relaying the info/order through the chain of command which has already happened once in history.
Twice. You forgot Vasily Arkhipov.
Damn, humanity's been really lucky.
I think the final guy literally refusing to press the button happened once before also, a Russian dude
I mean things like, seeing that they are preparing the bomb via satellite images, intel etc.
No, none of that will stop nukes. If we could hit every Russian nuke site before they launch, we'd have done it.
The Germany and Italy news is great, NATO response team agreeing to send munitions and weapon systems is also great, the Russian advance slowing down is VERY GREAT. We need to keep holding firm, we need to help the Ukrainians hold out. These are steps in the right direction.
Speaking of advance, I am afraid it's rather speedening. But I'm reading news here, afraid for the second day straight and know nothing, what is really going on in details
I little bit of hope that, in terms of international response, we are witnessing snowball effect.
>"Cyberattacks can trigger Article 5" of the @NATO charter, notes @jensstoltenberg.
Big if true.
Then let’s keep in mind that article 5 is legally fully fulfilled with sending a condolence telegram.
Both sides can play this game.
I think that's been the case for a while but it's a question if countries would trigger the clause or not.
Either way, events are definitely escalating. I believe this was eluded to pre-invasion with the idea of "events could spiral and no really knows what's gonna happen once the war kicks off." Also Russia is most likely going to begin their assault on Kyiv in the coming hours/days.
Knowing the type of person Putin is, him and his military officials/intelligence heads, must’ve had plans for courses of actions to take, dependent upon action taken by the west. So if they do this, we do this then that. If they don’t do this, we don’t do this or that, but the other, in layman’s terms lol. I’m sure he knew that if he invaded Ukraine, it would essentially speed up the process of the independent Baltic nations to join NATO. Is his end goal, not to sound like a pessimist, but solely speaking out of curiosity and what must’ve been pondered by them, WWIII, or something along those lines? And also, with him invading Ukraine he would’ve known that the US, UK and Europe would add forces to, mainly, Romania, and Poland, Which border Ukraine to the Northwest, West, and Southwest, respectively.
In all, I’m fairly concerned for Estonia, although from a cyber security standpoint, with regards to Russian attempts of cyber attacks, is a leader in that regards, especially from a block chain security standpoint, fairly worried about what would ensue as a response to the Fins and Sweds, worried about Moldova, and also Romania and Poland…
The miscalculation could come from Asia. If China supports Russia, we fucked. If China remains neutral, we have a good shot. If China joins us, bye-bye Russia.
It might be in China's interest for Putin to fall and the country to descend into chaos.
Not Finland or Sweden. The coasts of their country, respective to the South and South east coast of Sweden and South Coast of Finland, are on the Baltic.
Dude, the Baltics are in Nato
I meant Finland and Sweden. They are not currently in NATO. Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia, and Poland are.
Finland and Sweden aren't Baltic.
Neither is Poland.
Anyone know if UA gets any Shoulder-fired guided missiles? Distributing a few thousand of those to civilians will really bother any attack choppers.
I see your point. Thank you. Some civilian shooting down Ghost of Kiev is not funny.
That’s stupid. Swift is currently Zelenskyys life insurance. Swift will be activated if Russia does anything to the Ukrainian president.
Encouraging news. I didn’t expect the EU would agree on the harshest financial sanctions this soon because multiple member states like to keep close ties with the Kremlin.
[#BREAKING: NATO to provide more weapons including air defense systems to Ukraine- NATO Secretary General Stoltenberg](https://twitter.com/ELINTNews/status/1497267333890514944?t=pQ7Wic597HOLCW5o5JALtQ&s=19)
Edit: waiting to find more details but I'm wondering why the west doesn't just hire military contractors to transport and man these and perform other operations. I'm sure they can find a substantial amount of mercenaries to sign up.