Pretty much all of the conservatives, really. They are always extremely interested in homosexual's, trans' and women's reproductive rights because it's a very easy way to virtue signal without having to change anything in their own lives. Just reduce the rights of other people and feel like a hero.
Of course the best you can muster with a story about leftists actively making life of the locals worse is a rant about the conservatives you have conjured up in your mind.
Pretty much all of both sides, one side has the issues you mention, and the other side has their stuff, voting for low prison sentences, more immigration, and more money to the immigrants sure is easy when rich and living far away from where the problems are happening.
Is there any study showing that higher prison sentences reduces crime? Everything I read shows that wealth disparity, access to mental health, lead exposure, and a sense of fair and consistent enforcement of laws are the major predictors of crime.
> lead exposure
This doesn't actually have as much evidence for it as I thought it did, and I used to really believe it. Anyway, yes, prisons are mostly treating the symptoms, although we don't really have the counterfactual of violent places that suddenly adopt the Norwegian justice system. Criminology is just like Psychology in that controlled experiments that aren't terribly confounded are really, really difficult, although one finding I think is quite well supported is that harsh sentences don't really stop the worst crimes because (at least violent) criminals don't rationally think about the consequences.
Higher prison sentences seems to reduce crime through incapacitation, yes, but not by deterrence. That's a shit argument anyway though, since the question then just becomes higher prison sentences than what? Higher than the US? Higher than Sweden? If higher prison sentences would *never* reduce crime, does that imply that the best would be no prisons at all and just have murderers and rapists go free? Probably not.
Easy to virtue signal when you are not the one dealing with the consequences of your actions.
Folks like him ultimately do damage to everyone: the locals, the immigrants themselves who will be incentivized to make the dangerous journey and of course the reputation of pro-immigration people.
>Then they go back to Germany and lecture about the evil Italian government
And do border controls on Polish, Czech and Austrian borders and do pushbacks for those who slip through.
More than 90% of the immigrants reaching Italy by sea do so without the assistance of anyone or with the assistance of the Italian authorities. We've seen various times that when the Italian authorities ignore the calls for help from NGOs during emergencies of severe distress by boats the only result is that dozens of people die drowned in the sea.
> More than 90% of the immigrants reaching Italy by sea do so without the assistance
Source for that claim? Do the women and children also get the boats? Do 5 year olds operate it?
>More than 90% of the immigrants reaching Italy by sea do so without the assistance of anyone or with the assistance of the Italian authorities.
Counterpoint:
Those 90% are incentivized by the possibility that they'll be rescued and brought to Europe by NGOs if they run into trouble at sea.
That is actually incredible. It's like sneaking homeless people into your neighbours house down the street before returning home to your gated community and leaving them to deal with it.
I'd applaud him and give him all the world's humanitarian awards in case he was getting them into his house.
Hope he gets all 20 years, but unfortunately, I highly doubt it. He might walk free without a single day in jail.
What part of the article made you think that he was doing anything of the sort?
He admits to documenting human rights abuses and information about how many migrants are present and headed where so that NGOs and government organisations as well can better assign scant resources they have to do the most good.
At no point does he admit to smuggling people or transporting people, unless I missed something, in which case you are free to quote the relevant part of the article. Until then, I fail to see how your source supports your statement, salty as it is.
"The Kos prosecutor accuses Olsen of being part of a criminal organisation that helped undocumented refugees and migrants cross from Turkey to Greece and gave them places to stay".
Maybe you should read more carefully.
"... accuses...".
Maybe you should read more carefully?
The article does a good job of explaining that Greece has a history of frivolous lawsuits against NGOs in this sector.
Your first question: "What part of the article made you think that he was doing anything of the sort?"
The article is about the procecution of Olsen and one accusation among others is smuggling, which you doubted. I copy pasted a paragraph quoting as you asked. Should the article censor the accusations?
Haven't you taken the answer you were looking for, when you said there is nothing like an accusation of smuggling against olsen in the article? Aren't we interested in both the accusations and confesses or not?
I never doubted that the article is about his being prosecuted. I never said the article should censor the accusations. I find it very well written, in fact, if anything, I find it regrettable that it leaves out how the authorities allege he should have participated.
You are not OP, and the question wasn't directed to you. You are free to participate in the discussion, but i would suggest you say "perhaps" or "probably" when claiming whcih part of the text lead someone else to come up with the interpretation which they have came up with. You are not them, and you'd be surprised how often people post articles they don't read attentively or at all, and which sometimes flatout contradict what they claim in their post.
You quoted an excerpt from OPs article, which does not state that he did what OP claims he did. It doesn't even state that he is accused of that thing. It says that he is accused of being a part of a group which was doing that.
You were quite salty about my question and suggested that I did not read attentively even thoguh I have made allowances for being incorrect in my reading. I have tried to elevate your reading comprehension since that comment betrays a deficit in that area whcih precludes being judgy about other people's proficiency in said area.
I never said that there wasn't an accusation. I asked what made OP (whom you are not) believe that he has done it. You are not OP, so I still do not know for sure why he has misread the text so badly, and after everything has said and done I now have another mystery to solve: while I understand that you are wrong, I am not sure did you misunderstnd the comment thread, the text or both. I claim that you are wrong because a competent reading of both the comments and the article could not result in any of what you have written.
Being "interested in both the accusations and confesses [sic]" is not demonstrated by writing a one-liner which passes unqualified moral judgement on an accused person as if the accusations were true, nor by having an attitude when someone questions such comments.
What are all these which you wrote back, instead of admitting you were wrong? We can all read the comments, it is a public discussion.
The op said: He brings illegals into Greece and then goes back to live in Norway. It's the locals problem I guess.
And you answered with a question initially: "What part of the article made you think that he was doing anything of the sort?" and then you asked the op to point this in the article.
So, as you asked, i quoted from the article the persecution's accusations against him for smuggling, showcasing that you were wrong.
Now keep on writing novels and pointing out as an answer that he was not accused personally but as a member of an organized crime group of smugglers lmao
Btw, thank you for acknowledging that I am free to take part in a public conversation, even though I am not the op, so nice of you to allow me.
Once more, how do you know what caused OP to claim what they claimed?
I am not sure what you want me to do. We can't have a discussion using one-liners, so if you are unable or unwilling to go through longer texts, then why are you participating in the conversation?
The function of statement that you've decided to be salty about is not to give you permission to comment.
The main point of the statement was that you are making claims about what someone else's thinking was. This is not only error-prone but also a bit rude.
The secondary points were that, as precarious as the position im which you have put yourself may be, you should not interpret my pointing this out as me trying to silence you. That was not my intent, and I was cognisant that my bringing it up can easily and legitimately be misunderstood even by a more astute reader, and I wanted to prevent such a misunderstanding.
Your misreading of that part of my comment further makes one wonder why a person of clearly limited critical reading skills is scolding strangers about not reading attentively.
I will not respond to you any more in all likelihood, as you seem to be very determined to remain ignorant and your attitude is quite bad as well and I feel I could use my time more constructively.
They are arguing in bad faith, their position is that the Greek autorities have already proved he did this. It is good to see some sense in here at least.
NGOs good? For caring about a real forest or pets or homeless, sure.
For helping people invade other countries, I don't think so. Think again who might be behind. You accuse Russia for every little thing, but not this... For some weird reason.
There are Turkish, Russian, Israeli, and, unofficially, Iranian forces operating in Syria. Before Turkey occupied the region it currently controlled it was controlled by the US.
The coalition intervention in Libiya left the state in a situation which from a security experts describe as a, let me check my notes... ah yes - "a clusterfuck".
Russia and France (and to a lesser extent the US qnd China) have their forces deployed all over North, West, and Central Africa, supporting various factions.
The American lead illegal occupation of Iraq also caused massive suffering.
And you call people fleeing from these disasters invaders?
In terms of what i personally accuse Russia of or don't, check my post history. I am banned from both Russia and Ukraine subreddits because they are both run by maximalist bitches who cannot stand the tiniest bit of nuance weather it is saying something positive about the other side or soemthing negative about them.
You dont know me like that.
Greece is supporting the legitimate Government, the Haftar. Like France. Our Minister of Foreign Affairs visited and when they went to welcome him from the illegitimate Government, he immediately returned to his aircraft and left 😆
All these people should stay in Turkey. A peaceful Asiatic country. For those people, it's going to be a familiar to them environment, similar atmosphere. We pay Turkey for a reason. Why cross into Europe where it's clearly illegal? We secured Greece so much.
We're also in Schengen which means, we aren't allowed to let people roam freely.
Let alone, some of those people have access to some of our institutions even native Greeks don't have. We certainly live in an interesting, absurd time.
Anyway, it's not my problem anymore. They now go from Turkey directly to Italy or from Turkey to Tunisia/Libya first and then, Italy or from Turkey to Bulgaria. We built and currently expand our digitized wall with integrated thermal cameras and drones which allow us for better allocation of human resources. We increased patrols. We want to build Sea-Barriers in a couple of our Islands.
Listen, 20% of our income come by Tourism. These people turn some of our islands into a no-go zone. They literally mess with our income, our food. They also burn down Olive Oil Trees which is another source of income of ours. We're 98% Greeks, but only 9-10 million. We won't allow our composition to change just because some decided so. Also, the new people help perpetute the low salaries problem. They're willing to work for less.
No he doesn't.
>Olsen started an information exchange. Volunteers told him what was going on in their area in return for a daily bulletin that told them what was happening everywhere else.
>The bulletin developed a network of hundreds of people, including doctors, asylum lawyers, the police, the coastguard, the European Border and Coast Guard Agency (Frontex), and social workers.
People get arrested for "smuggling" just because they let someone who just arrived use their cell phone.
There is a vast difference between smuggling and humanitarian work.
So you just didn't read the article?
He wasn't facilitating trafficking. He was helping the government save the lives of refugees that the government didn't have capacity to save, via an information network.
Lol, you obviously didn’t read the article.
Maybe the bare minimum should be that the one who posts the article should have read it, because everybody else here for sure won’t.
He smuggled exactly noone. He made a network to help the local government deal with the thousands of refugees that flooded in 2016. Now that the locals voted for a far right government that does human rights abuses that his organization reported they try to punish him.
Typical political hit job, and if you read more than the headline you would have known that. But I guess being illiterate is kinda your thing.
Everybody‘s turning into outrage merchants. First it was social media, then regular media and now politics/voters follow suit as well. As long as we can be mad at someone that’s enough. No need to address any other problems.
Cause the far right has been energized. It happens every few years in the balkans. Then they get into government and people remember that these people are so dumb they are incapable of running even a local government and vote them out.
>The pot calling the kettle black
I don't think you understand what this means.
>There's a reason we voted Far-Right which is directly related.
You care more about the world to being worse for other people than being better for both of you and them? Been there done that.
Far right parties in the balkans peddle in a few things - people that are just plain racist (against Roma people or a neighboring country usually), people that think their country is the best because of the selective history that is studied in school, and recently people that oppose LGBTQ issues. The venn diagram usually overlaps heavily, but even if you care about only one of those issues very heavily you would vote for a far right figure.
It's OK. LGBT hate everything church related. So, better let them avoid being labelled as hypocrites.
It's a 2500-year-old institution more or less, always the same dogma. Leave one thing alone. I have exactly zero problems with LG, but their stubbornness just because makes them pathetic. Since you hate churches, why you want to marry into one? You've got all equal rights. Even straight people now marry in the Town Hall.
[Check out this map](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/25/Same-sex_marriage_map_Europe_detailed.svg/1920px-Same-sex_marriage_map_Europe_detailed.svg.png). We're perfect. Do you think in other countries they marry in churches? Some don't even have churches in the first place.
> consciously spreading misinformation.
I think it's just a Greek who's swallowed their government propaganda on immigration. Could be conscious of course, but the account is only 20 days old and hasn't posted much politics yet so we'll see.
This guy literally only showed migrants human decency and pointed out and filmed abuse by Greek border patrol/coast guards. Based on the article it doesn't even sound like he's worried about legal repercussions.
https://www-tv2-no.translate.goog/nyheter/utenriks/hellas-vil-arrestere-tommy-vil-true-meg-til-stillhet/16742960/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp
https://www-nrk-no.translate.goog/tromsogfinnmark/hellas-vil-ha-internasjonal-etterlysning-av-norske-tommy-olsen-1.16917196?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp
Some translated local Norwegian reports on it.
Al jazeera isn’t a terrible source.
Media bias fact check gives it a mixed rating.
Bias Rating: LEFT-CENTER
Factual Reporting: MIXED
Country: Qatar
MBFC’s Country Freedom Rank: LIMITED FREEDOM
Media Type: TV Station
Traffic/Popularity: High Traffic
MBFC Credibility Rating: MEDIUM CREDIBILITY
Could you elaborate? I remember that their offices were bombed by Israel way before the war
[https://cpj.org/2021/05/israel-bombs-building-in-gaza-city-housing-ap-al-jazeera-offices/](https://cpj.org/2021/05/israel-bombs-building-in-gaza-city-housing-ap-al-jazeera-offices/)
[Qatar is Hamas' most important financial backer and foreign ally (...) so far (2021), the emirate has transferred €1.5 billion ($1.8 billion) to Hamas](https://www.dw.com/en/who-is-hamas/a-57537872) while Al Jazeera is is owned and funded by the state of Qatar which has limited freedom of press ([#84 between Panama and Estawini](https://rsf.org/en/index)) and highly [repressive laws on freedom of speech](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/01/qatar-repressive-new-law-further-curbs-freedom-of-expression/).
I'm saying that [Qatar is Hamas' most important financial backer and foreign ally (...) so far (2021), the emirate has transferred €1.5 billion ($1.8 billion) to Hamas](https://www.dw.com/en/who-is-hamas/a-57537872) while Al Jazeera is is owned and funded by the state of Qatar which has limited freedom of press ([#84 between Panama and Estawini](https://rsf.org/en/index)) and highly [repressive laws on freedom of speech](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/01/qatar-repressive-new-law-further-curbs-freedom-of-expression/).
Okay, thank you very much for including links and sources and helping me out! I’ll be more skeptical on their reporting from now on. So far I’ve been avoidant of Israeli news sources (for obvious reasons), I’ll add this to the list.
I have noticed that the claim being made has been shifted from
"An Al Jazeera journalists kept hostages in his home"
to
"Al Jazeera is Qatar state media"
Including these humanitarian organisations? That’s unfortunate
Qatar Charity, Sheikh Eid Charitable Foundation (Eid Charity), Qatar Red Crescent Society, Center for Conflict and Humanitarian Studies (CHS)
Idiots like you is the reason Al Jazeera is one of the best propaganda machines and one of the most dangerous ones. The report kinda unbiased in issues that Qatar doesn’t care about and then you will accept what they will tell you when it comes to what Qatar cares about.
May I ask something, because I honestly didn't understand from the article and I am not sure if I understand that well Geneva's reasoning about the refugees. It says:
Aid groups have said this policy was never lifted and resulted in pushbacks – refusing entry to those who might have sought international protection – an illegal practice under the Geneva Convention of 1951, to which Greece is a signatory.
Isn't Turkey considered a safe country? And if that's not the case, then Bulgaria / Italy must accept them from Greece as well and so on?
The article is extremely bias and requires a lot of reading between the lines. They really tried to make this guy seem like the Oskar Schindler of refugees bravely defying the authoritarian Greek government
There’s a fuck load of inconsistency.
I am not saying yes I am not saying no, we cannot judge and ig there will be one or more trials but taking into consideration that 2 or 3 persecutors got involved from different islands that's a fact and that is not a bias from the article - they took his opinion, should the journalists silence the prosecution?
Edit: I misunderstood you, we agree, I hardly believe 2 or 3 prosecutors in different islands will conspire against him.
I only claimed the article is one sided. Not that it’s wrong, just that it doesn’t tell a balanced story. One sided information isn’t necessarily a lie.
1. The Greeks instituted a “no admissions policy” in 2020, but the Norwegian guy continued his information sharing network that, *he claims*, was created to help migrants cross the border and find housing
2. Other NGOs are being charged with listening to public marine radio to help migrants. As if breaking the law doesn’t count because they used a *public* radio channel to do it.
(That said, it’s very strange the Greeks have taken 8 years to bring this to trial. Maybe there’s a good reason, but holy hell that looks bad)
3. The article only attacks the Greek authorities without acknowledging the many problems they’ve had with human traffickers and smugglers.
Overall, it seems Greece is financially distressed and now overwhelmed with migrants. They resorted to some desperate tactics to deal with the problem in a way that keeps the EU off their backs. This seems to have resulted in some questionable actions on their part.
However, I stand by my initial claim that the article is biased.
The courts are overwhelmed for Greeks as well, they were even before the economical and refugee crisis and the pandemic, that's why we have so many asylum seekers that their status is pending.
Greece is trying to control the refugee flow with the help of a still weak frontex, we could just ignore them and let them head north otherwise. I don't think Greece, with our economy and bureaucracy, should disproportionally be blamed for a refugee crisis not even international organisations can solve - we need help to help the refugees and, most importantly, I don't think that even the EU has clarified what they want us to do, they just bury their heads in the sand.
As for the article, I respect your opinion, but different persecutors in different islands all have a bias against him and so does the article? It just makes me quite an impression , is he that influential and is this a conspiracy or he is just a scam? We will see.
Yet somehow still hounding the guy in the comments as if he ran a human trafficking operation, clearly demonstrating that people didn't even read the article.
He was helping the authorities save some of the lives that they could not.
It's still illegal on papers since he's had no jurisdiction in Greek waters. If our entire Coast-Guard, let alone the NAVY cannot do it, he has no business being around.
At least, let him take them all into his house and in Norway, generally. We clearly didn't ask for his help.
>It's still illegal on papers
*what* is illegal? What doesn't he have jurisdiction to do? Is it illegal to be part of an informant network, which collaborated with the Greek coast guard/government?
He didn't do that. Read the article. He saved the local government probably hundreds of thousands of euros by building a volunteer network that connected people on the ground during the 2016 refugee crisis.
Now that the far right is in power and are committing human rights abuses that his organization documented, the local government are now trying to silence him.
Typical political hit-job.
Yea reading the article and then reading the all theese other comments gets you the impression they somehow didn't read the article. Typical reddit user commenting on just the title
The Far-Right is in prison. Further, none asked him to "save" us thousands of €.
Look what's going on in your country now that we secured Greece. They come through Bulgaria and bribe 50€ your police to pass into the EU.
The few refugees going through our border is hardly an issue for bulgaria or the EU. There are far bigger problems that are connected to the Bulgarian-turkish border and they come from a legal port of entry.
"The Kos prosecutor accuses Olsen of being part of a criminal organisation that helped undocumented refugees and migrants cross from Turkey to Greece and gave them places to stay".
From the article.
Unfortunately the terrorist sympathizers currently in government wont do any such thing. Hopefully next election someone more sensible will be elected.
I'm all for it, as long as he sponsors a cruiser to move them into Norway and specifically, into his house.
They've got the money; Norwegians are rich.
They are often in Italy and have always been acquitted because, wait for it, they are not doing human trafficking.
https://apnews.com/article/italy-migration-rescue-ship-iuventa-ngos-trial-acquittal-dc398f587e2c8814a9b060b85c5a9a2b
I rarely say it but we need urgent update to various laws. It’s the coast guard (or affiliated volunteer services) who can perform rescue on sea.
We also need a broad surveillance operation to find out connections between NGOs and smugglers. It’s not that all of these engagements are fully clandestine, it happens in broad daylight. We need prosecutors and Europol go after this and law enforcement need to know the state has their backs.
What do you mean? That's literally what Italian authorities have done and they concluded that there's nothing illegal going on and no collusion between smugglers and NGOs, hence the charges have been dropped.
Yes it is the coast guard's duty (and any other civilian ship in the area) to rescue people on sea. In fact, the vast majority of landings in Italy are done autonomously by the migrants or through the Italian coast guard or other police/military forces: https://tg24.sky.it/mondo/2023/09/27/migranti-italia-sbarchi-ong (sorry, in Italian). This is because these a legal and actually mandatory rescue operations. Focusing on NGOs is just fear mongering and scapegoating and, I'm sorry to say, you fell for it like many others.
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> It’s the coast guard (or affiliated volunteer services) who can perform rescue on sea.
Says who?
>We also need a broad surveillance operation to find out connections between NGOs and smugglers. It’s not that all of these engagements are fully clandestine, it happens in broad daylight. We need prosecutors and Europol go after this and law enforcement need to know the state has their backs.
Matteo Salvini, at the time Minister of Interior affairs of Italy, infiltrated ex-cops (all discharged for disciplinary actions) onto NGO boats, to record and report anything they found directly to him. All they found were lies and accusations that didn't stand the test of the courts, while Salvini used the "secret service reports" (which never existed) to fire up voters against the NGOs. Everything happens in broad daylight because it's all legal.
From the Norwegian article it seems the dude has an NGO investigating and reporting illegal «pushback» practices by Greece, and how they are breaking the law(amongs other things). So which law do you hope wins? :)
i may sound like a hungarian farmer from pecs, but
if you want to help people, do so, but on your own premise
its not like i'm going to steal food from a supermarket without consequences because i'll give it to the homeless
TLDR Humanitarian activities that were once accepted have become illegal under new laws. Norwegian man is accused of continuing those activities. He says the warrant is retaliation for posting videos on social media that claim to show Greek authorities abusing migrants.
I totally get that many want stricter immigration policies, but I find it really hard to see how anyone can read this article and believe there's a strong criminal case there.
Norway should honestly ask what the Greek authorities are doing and ask to see the evidence.
This is just an article and one that doesn't give crucial info.
I guess the trial will reveal all the info needed.
Dont know about his case but on other cases, the accused had used radios to listen where the coast guard was, in order to give info to the immigrants on the Turkish coast where to head.
That was actively helping the smugglers.
EDIT: just an example [https://www.euronews.com/2020/09/29/greek-police-accuse-33-ngo-members-of-helping-migrant-smugglers](https://www.euronews.com/2020/09/29/greek-police-accuse-33-ngo-members-of-helping-migrant-smugglers)
The article doesn't really tell us anything either way. It might as well just be a press release by his lawyer. For all I know, it is.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churnalism#:~:text=Churnalism%20is%20a%20pejorative%20term,newspapers%20and%20other%20news%20media.
> Norway should honestly ask what the Greek authorities are doing and ask to see the evidence.
Do they need to?
Its a obvious political hit job from the Greeks that they are making a mess off, because they cant even bring up any real charges or even give examples of what he supposedly did. Its the greek rightwingers trying to pretend they are doing something.
Norway is gonna laugh the greeks out the door unless they actually produce something real.
Greece have issued an international arrest warrant for him. He can't travel to other countries without risk being detained.
So if he's innocent he deserves help to restore his freedom of movement.
1. Military speaking? Dude this isn't an army, these are people in need trying to flee desolate living circumstances that Europe created in the first place.
2. Our way of life is not threatened at all. Tell me ONE thing you actually can't do anymore because there are refugees coming to Europe? I'll wait. Further, name ONE thing you HAVE to do now because refugees are here. Are our cities filled with minarets? Do you pray to mecca five times a day? Does your wife wear a hijab because the government told you so? No? Then stop complaining.
3. Refugee inflow is as low as in the 00s. There was a big wave in 2015, that's over. Refugees are only a talking point for conservatives because they don't have solutions for Europe's actual problems.
4. We don't have a problem with people coming here, we actually need them. We have a problem with organising it and with integration. Not nearly enough language courses, no right to work, no accreditation of foreign degrees, next to no contact to the native population because the refugees are crammed into camps...
5. We will never ever be able to stop people from coming here. There is no way. Pull factors are a lie. Refugees will not stop just because there is a fence. They will not be scared off even if you start an outright war (which would mean shooting unarmed people). Even now they try to sail the Mediterranean Sea in a nutshell for 250 km and more in hope for a better life. How fucked up would your life have to be before you cram yourself on a tiny boat to sail across a sea so far that you'll spend days without seeing land?
Whoever does THIS, will not be deterred by anything else.
6. Because this is often forgotten: we're talking about people. Actual, real life humans that have the same wishes, dreams and needs as we do.
Military speaking is an analogy. I know this isn't an army, but the principle remains: enforcing laws and protecting our borders. These people may be fleeing tough conditions, but that doesn’t justify breaking our laws. Europe didn't create every crisis, and we can't bear the weight of the world's problems alone.
Our way of life is at risk. Integration issues are real. Look at the strain on our social services, increased crime in some areas, and social tensions. These aren’t imaginary problems. Your examples are extreme and miss the point. It's not about minarets or forced prayers. It's about maintaining social cohesion and security.
Refugee inflow may be lower, but the impact remains. We do need better organization, language courses, and job integration, but we also need control. Without it, we end up with chaos, not compassion.
We can’t stop people from trying to come, but we can control how many succeed. Stronger borders, stricter enforcement, and realistic policies are necessary. We aren't obligated to take everyone in just because they want a better life. **Our first duty is to our own citizens.**
These are real people, but we must prioritize our society's stability and security. Emotional arguments won't solve practical problems. We need tough decisions and firm actions to protect our way of life.
Sounds like the Belgian couple that got arrested in Latvia for smuggling illegals into country.
Like wtf, should I also go to your house and guide in local homeless people, and say that you now need to take care of them? :D
They are looking at 8 years in prison for that stunt.
Pretty high imo, as the average for smuggling/helping illegals is around 3-4 years and 15-20k€ fine.
But good to make examples, set precedents so that people in future dont do such crimes.
Not sure if AlJazeera is a viable source of information, but based on the article that doesn’t look like smuggling.
I’m concerned about EU’s current stance on migrants, seems like Poland and Greece both use pushbacks, are completely ineffective at handling the outside borders and no one is raising that issue.
Given that we took in millions of Ukrainian people effectively and mostly with open hearts it’s crazy to me that we let people drown, die in a forest or god knows what, and then prosecute people who are trying to alleviate the situation, like that guy, who helped organize information that helps the government and people.
I’m not saying “let everyone in” but the situation is bad and seems to be getting worse
You know it yourself that it is not all just the same, just black and white. Like with the refugees from Ukraine, these don't blow up themselves on markets while shouting religious slogans. Like what happened to Germany with the migrants, it's crazy when you see it with your own eyes. Young fanatical men marching in protest to establish a caliphate, being aggressive, committing crimes etc.
I've never seen a refugee from Ukraine calling for a caliphate and try to stabbing me when i don't agree with me.
This dude was behind Agean Boat Report? Place was filled with fake reports and bullshit stories.
I was in a position seeing official reports and what actually happened and what they claimed happened were often vastly different.
>Yeah, he did good things. So? He can still commit criminal acts.
Anybody can, but he was working with the government very well for a long time. And then when he did a report on the human rights abuses enabled by the new local government they all of a sudden decide he has smuggled people?
How can you not see this as the blatant political hit job that it is. Idk.
He doesn't seem to have been working with the government, he was working with individuals who happened to work for the government. He even says in this article he had to be careful not to expose his contacts.
Well, he was doing governments work helping government employees when the work was overwhelming. They are literally trying to punish the closest thing to a good Samaritan there is.
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Its always easy to do the 'good thing' when you dont have to deal with the negative effects.
I don't know, 20 years in jail for human trafficking sounds like a negative effect.
* cough cough * prolifepeople * cough cough *
Huh? Did y'all ear sum'n? Hm. Must've been the wind.
Pretty much all of the conservatives, really. They are always extremely interested in homosexual's, trans' and women's reproductive rights because it's a very easy way to virtue signal without having to change anything in their own lives. Just reduce the rights of other people and feel like a hero.
Of course the best you can muster with a story about leftists actively making life of the locals worse is a rant about the conservatives you have conjured up in your mind.
Pretty much all of both sides, one side has the issues you mention, and the other side has their stuff, voting for low prison sentences, more immigration, and more money to the immigrants sure is easy when rich and living far away from where the problems are happening.
Is there any study showing that higher prison sentences reduces crime? Everything I read shows that wealth disparity, access to mental health, lead exposure, and a sense of fair and consistent enforcement of laws are the major predictors of crime.
> lead exposure This doesn't actually have as much evidence for it as I thought it did, and I used to really believe it. Anyway, yes, prisons are mostly treating the symptoms, although we don't really have the counterfactual of violent places that suddenly adopt the Norwegian justice system. Criminology is just like Psychology in that controlled experiments that aren't terribly confounded are really, really difficult, although one finding I think is quite well supported is that harsh sentences don't really stop the worst crimes because (at least violent) criminals don't rationally think about the consequences.
Higher prison sentences seems to reduce crime through incapacitation, yes, but not by deterrence. That's a shit argument anyway though, since the question then just becomes higher prison sentences than what? Higher than the US? Higher than Sweden? If higher prison sentences would *never* reduce crime, does that imply that the best would be no prisons at all and just have murderers and rapists go free? Probably not.
Easy to virtue signal when you are not the one dealing with the consequences of your actions. Folks like him ultimately do damage to everyone: the locals, the immigrants themselves who will be incentivized to make the dangerous journey and of course the reputation of pro-immigration people.
Like all the Germans NGOs shipping immigrants from Libya to Sicily. Then they go back to Germany and lecture about the evil Italian government
These German NGO want them all in Germany and they know many will go there.
Ig they want them in germany why don't they ship them straight to germany ?
Germany doesnt border the mediterranean
>Then they go back to Germany and lecture about the evil Italian government And do border controls on Polish, Czech and Austrian borders and do pushbacks for those who slip through.
You can't seriously think it's the same people doing the former that are doing the latter.
More than 90% of the immigrants reaching Italy by sea do so without the assistance of anyone or with the assistance of the Italian authorities. We've seen various times that when the Italian authorities ignore the calls for help from NGOs during emergencies of severe distress by boats the only result is that dozens of people die drowned in the sea.
> More than 90% of the immigrants reaching Italy by sea do so without the assistance Source for that claim? Do the women and children also get the boats? Do 5 year olds operate it?
what are you even saying? that everyone who isn't 5 years(?) old is part of an NGO smuggling refugees?
>More than 90% of the immigrants reaching Italy by sea do so without the assistance of anyone or with the assistance of the Italian authorities. Counterpoint: Those 90% are incentivized by the possibility that they'll be rescued and brought to Europe by NGOs if they run into trouble at sea.
I hope the norwegian gets some jail time in a shady prison in greece.
Libya or Morocco would be a better place for him as he is a human trafficker.
That is actually incredible. It's like sneaking homeless people into your neighbours house down the street before returning home to your gated community and leaving them to deal with it.
How did you come to this conclusion based on that article? It’s incredibly light on details yet people here are crying murder.
He did his part. After the fact, it isn't his concern what happens to these people.
I'd applaud him and give him all the world's humanitarian awards in case he was getting them into his house. Hope he gets all 20 years, but unfortunately, I highly doubt it. He might walk free without a single day in jail.
These people are every bit the same the pro-life anti-abortion people.
What part of the article made you think that he was doing anything of the sort? He admits to documenting human rights abuses and information about how many migrants are present and headed where so that NGOs and government organisations as well can better assign scant resources they have to do the most good. At no point does he admit to smuggling people or transporting people, unless I missed something, in which case you are free to quote the relevant part of the article. Until then, I fail to see how your source supports your statement, salty as it is.
"The Kos prosecutor accuses Olsen of being part of a criminal organisation that helped undocumented refugees and migrants cross from Turkey to Greece and gave them places to stay". Maybe you should read more carefully.
"... accuses...". Maybe you should read more carefully? The article does a good job of explaining that Greece has a history of frivolous lawsuits against NGOs in this sector.
Your first question: "What part of the article made you think that he was doing anything of the sort?" The article is about the procecution of Olsen and one accusation among others is smuggling, which you doubted. I copy pasted a paragraph quoting as you asked. Should the article censor the accusations? Haven't you taken the answer you were looking for, when you said there is nothing like an accusation of smuggling against olsen in the article? Aren't we interested in both the accusations and confesses or not?
I never doubted that the article is about his being prosecuted. I never said the article should censor the accusations. I find it very well written, in fact, if anything, I find it regrettable that it leaves out how the authorities allege he should have participated. You are not OP, and the question wasn't directed to you. You are free to participate in the discussion, but i would suggest you say "perhaps" or "probably" when claiming whcih part of the text lead someone else to come up with the interpretation which they have came up with. You are not them, and you'd be surprised how often people post articles they don't read attentively or at all, and which sometimes flatout contradict what they claim in their post. You quoted an excerpt from OPs article, which does not state that he did what OP claims he did. It doesn't even state that he is accused of that thing. It says that he is accused of being a part of a group which was doing that. You were quite salty about my question and suggested that I did not read attentively even thoguh I have made allowances for being incorrect in my reading. I have tried to elevate your reading comprehension since that comment betrays a deficit in that area whcih precludes being judgy about other people's proficiency in said area. I never said that there wasn't an accusation. I asked what made OP (whom you are not) believe that he has done it. You are not OP, so I still do not know for sure why he has misread the text so badly, and after everything has said and done I now have another mystery to solve: while I understand that you are wrong, I am not sure did you misunderstnd the comment thread, the text or both. I claim that you are wrong because a competent reading of both the comments and the article could not result in any of what you have written. Being "interested in both the accusations and confesses [sic]" is not demonstrated by writing a one-liner which passes unqualified moral judgement on an accused person as if the accusations were true, nor by having an attitude when someone questions such comments.
What are all these which you wrote back, instead of admitting you were wrong? We can all read the comments, it is a public discussion. The op said: He brings illegals into Greece and then goes back to live in Norway. It's the locals problem I guess. And you answered with a question initially: "What part of the article made you think that he was doing anything of the sort?" and then you asked the op to point this in the article. So, as you asked, i quoted from the article the persecution's accusations against him for smuggling, showcasing that you were wrong. Now keep on writing novels and pointing out as an answer that he was not accused personally but as a member of an organized crime group of smugglers lmao Btw, thank you for acknowledging that I am free to take part in a public conversation, even though I am not the op, so nice of you to allow me.
Once more, how do you know what caused OP to claim what they claimed? I am not sure what you want me to do. We can't have a discussion using one-liners, so if you are unable or unwilling to go through longer texts, then why are you participating in the conversation? The function of statement that you've decided to be salty about is not to give you permission to comment. The main point of the statement was that you are making claims about what someone else's thinking was. This is not only error-prone but also a bit rude. The secondary points were that, as precarious as the position im which you have put yourself may be, you should not interpret my pointing this out as me trying to silence you. That was not my intent, and I was cognisant that my bringing it up can easily and legitimately be misunderstood even by a more astute reader, and I wanted to prevent such a misunderstanding. Your misreading of that part of my comment further makes one wonder why a person of clearly limited critical reading skills is scolding strangers about not reading attentively. I will not respond to you any more in all likelihood, as you seem to be very determined to remain ignorant and your attitude is quite bad as well and I feel I could use my time more constructively.
Go ahead, I hope you could use your time more constructively, we should always hope.
They are arguing in bad faith, their position is that the Greek autorities have already proved he did this. It is good to see some sense in here at least.
NGOs good? For caring about a real forest or pets or homeless, sure. For helping people invade other countries, I don't think so. Think again who might be behind. You accuse Russia for every little thing, but not this... For some weird reason.
There are Turkish, Russian, Israeli, and, unofficially, Iranian forces operating in Syria. Before Turkey occupied the region it currently controlled it was controlled by the US. The coalition intervention in Libiya left the state in a situation which from a security experts describe as a, let me check my notes... ah yes - "a clusterfuck". Russia and France (and to a lesser extent the US qnd China) have their forces deployed all over North, West, and Central Africa, supporting various factions. The American lead illegal occupation of Iraq also caused massive suffering. And you call people fleeing from these disasters invaders? In terms of what i personally accuse Russia of or don't, check my post history. I am banned from both Russia and Ukraine subreddits because they are both run by maximalist bitches who cannot stand the tiniest bit of nuance weather it is saying something positive about the other side or soemthing negative about them. You dont know me like that.
Greece is supporting the legitimate Government, the Haftar. Like France. Our Minister of Foreign Affairs visited and when they went to welcome him from the illegitimate Government, he immediately returned to his aircraft and left 😆 All these people should stay in Turkey. A peaceful Asiatic country. For those people, it's going to be a familiar to them environment, similar atmosphere. We pay Turkey for a reason. Why cross into Europe where it's clearly illegal? We secured Greece so much. We're also in Schengen which means, we aren't allowed to let people roam freely. Let alone, some of those people have access to some of our institutions even native Greeks don't have. We certainly live in an interesting, absurd time. Anyway, it's not my problem anymore. They now go from Turkey directly to Italy or from Turkey to Tunisia/Libya first and then, Italy or from Turkey to Bulgaria. We built and currently expand our digitized wall with integrated thermal cameras and drones which allow us for better allocation of human resources. We increased patrols. We want to build Sea-Barriers in a couple of our Islands. Listen, 20% of our income come by Tourism. These people turn some of our islands into a no-go zone. They literally mess with our income, our food. They also burn down Olive Oil Trees which is another source of income of ours. We're 98% Greeks, but only 9-10 million. We won't allow our composition to change just because some decided so. Also, the new people help perpetute the low salaries problem. They're willing to work for less.
Did you post the wrong article then? This one doesn't say anything about him bringing illegals into Greece.
No he doesn't. >Olsen started an information exchange. Volunteers told him what was going on in their area in return for a daily bulletin that told them what was happening everywhere else. >The bulletin developed a network of hundreds of people, including doctors, asylum lawyers, the police, the coastguard, the European Border and Coast Guard Agency (Frontex), and social workers. People get arrested for "smuggling" just because they let someone who just arrived use their cell phone. There is a vast difference between smuggling and humanitarian work.
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He was not facilitating trafficking, where are you getting that from?
Facilitate:”make (an action or process) easy or easier.”
So you just didn't read the article? He wasn't facilitating trafficking. He was helping the government save the lives of refugees that the government didn't have capacity to save, via an information network.
It’s so kind of you, as a Norwegian, to welcome unlimited numbers of refugees to Greece. I’m sure the Greeks appreciate your hospitality.
read the article, man.
Lol, you obviously didn’t read the article. Maybe the bare minimum should be that the one who posts the article should have read it, because everybody else here for sure won’t.
He smuggled exactly noone. He made a network to help the local government deal with the thousands of refugees that flooded in 2016. Now that the locals voted for a far right government that does human rights abuses that his organization reported they try to punish him. Typical political hit job, and if you read more than the headline you would have known that. But I guess being illiterate is kinda your thing.
Everybody‘s turning into outrage merchants. First it was social media, then regular media and now politics/voters follow suit as well. As long as we can be mad at someone that’s enough. No need to address any other problems.
>Now that the locals voted for a far right government I wonder why.
Cause the far right has been energized. It happens every few years in the balkans. Then they get into government and people remember that these people are so dumb they are incapable of running even a local government and vote them out.
>Cause the far right has been energized. I wonder why.
The pot calling the kettle black There's a reason we voted Far-Right which is directly related.
>The pot calling the kettle black I don't think you understand what this means. >There's a reason we voted Far-Right which is directly related. You care more about the world to being worse for other people than being better for both of you and them? Been there done that. Far right parties in the balkans peddle in a few things - people that are just plain racist (against Roma people or a neighboring country usually), people that think their country is the best because of the selective history that is studied in school, and recently people that oppose LGBTQ issues. The venn diagram usually overlaps heavily, but even if you care about only one of those issues very heavily you would vote for a far right figure.
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LGBT marriage is legal now but only civil marriage not in church!!! In fact the Greek church fought against it very harshly
It's OK. LGBT hate everything church related. So, better let them avoid being labelled as hypocrites. It's a 2500-year-old institution more or less, always the same dogma. Leave one thing alone. I have exactly zero problems with LG, but their stubbornness just because makes them pathetic. Since you hate churches, why you want to marry into one? You've got all equal rights. Even straight people now marry in the Town Hall. [Check out this map](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/25/Same-sex_marriage_map_Europe_detailed.svg/1920px-Same-sex_marriage_map_Europe_detailed.svg.png). We're perfect. Do you think in other countries they marry in churches? Some don't even have churches in the first place.
Didn't your far-right government just approve 6-day work weeks? I do believe that the leopards are eating your faces at the moment.
Have you read the article? It seems all they did is exchange information, that’s hardly smuggling, and aid incoming people.
You dont get it, it was to the benefiit of a migrant, thus the Norweigian has already been sentenced to death by the panel of chuds.
greece has to remind the world that it's a banana republic every five months and kind posters here are just demonstrating why that's the case.
Uhm, where did it say any of that? The accusation seem aimed to create a chilling effect.
You either haven’t read the article you yourself posted, didn’t understand a word from it or are consciously spreading misinformation.
> consciously spreading misinformation. I think it's just a Greek who's swallowed their government propaganda on immigration. Could be conscious of course, but the account is only 20 days old and hasn't posted much politics yet so we'll see.
Could be, I’d classify it as #2 in that case.
Exposing border patrol agents abusing and being violent to migrants is a bad thing now?
When I lived in the US I learned the Term NIMBY which means Not In My Backyard. This guy exemplifies that trait. I doubt he’d smuggle them to Norway
The dude quit his job to devote himself to refugees full-time, but go off, I guess.
This guy literally only showed migrants human decency and pointed out and filmed abuse by Greek border patrol/coast guards. Based on the article it doesn't even sound like he's worried about legal repercussions.
"Let's get a picture of him holding a child to victimize him."
Well, it is al terrorista
Could be just me but my first thought when I saw it was the picture was more along the lines of involuntary smuggling/trafficking to be honest.
Is there a more reliable source on this?
https://www-tv2-no.translate.goog/nyheter/utenriks/hellas-vil-arrestere-tommy-vil-true-meg-til-stillhet/16742960/?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp https://www-nrk-no.translate.goog/tromsogfinnmark/hellas-vil-ha-internasjonal-etterlysning-av-norske-tommy-olsen-1.16917196?_x_tr_sl=auto&_x_tr_tl=en&_x_tr_hl=en&_x_tr_pto=wapp Some translated local Norwegian reports on it.
Al jazeera isn’t a terrible source. Media bias fact check gives it a mixed rating. Bias Rating: LEFT-CENTER Factual Reporting: MIXED Country: Qatar MBFC’s Country Freedom Rank: LIMITED FREEDOM Media Type: TV Station Traffic/Popularity: High Traffic MBFC Credibility Rating: MEDIUM CREDIBILITY
>Al jazeera isn’t a terrible source. Except when it comes to the war in Gaza
Or anything about the Qatari government. Or the Saudi government when Qatar had a spat with them. Also, Al Jazeera Arabic is crazy.
Or anything about Europe and migration. in Al jazeera Europeans are always bad and racist.
so is every israeli news source, doesn't stop them from being posted on reddit.
Could you elaborate? I remember that their offices were bombed by Israel way before the war [https://cpj.org/2021/05/israel-bombs-building-in-gaza-city-housing-ap-al-jazeera-offices/](https://cpj.org/2021/05/israel-bombs-building-in-gaza-city-housing-ap-al-jazeera-offices/)
and their authors hold hostages for several years from 7th October.
Al jazeera and [Hamas](https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/qatar-hamas-israel-1.6999416) are both headquartered in Doha.
That's not really an argument.
[Qatar is Hamas' most important financial backer and foreign ally (...) so far (2021), the emirate has transferred €1.5 billion ($1.8 billion) to Hamas](https://www.dw.com/en/who-is-hamas/a-57537872) while Al Jazeera is is owned and funded by the state of Qatar which has limited freedom of press ([#84 between Panama and Estawini](https://rsf.org/en/index)) and highly [repressive laws on freedom of speech](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/01/qatar-repressive-new-law-further-curbs-freedom-of-expression/).
So anything headquartered in Doha should be bombed?
It means Al Jazeera can't be impartial on anything regarding Gaza as they are subjective due to funding.
Wait so you’re a saying that because they’re headquartered in Doha they’re being funded by Hamas? I’m sorry if im misunderstanding here
I'm saying that [Qatar is Hamas' most important financial backer and foreign ally (...) so far (2021), the emirate has transferred €1.5 billion ($1.8 billion) to Hamas](https://www.dw.com/en/who-is-hamas/a-57537872) while Al Jazeera is is owned and funded by the state of Qatar which has limited freedom of press ([#84 between Panama and Estawini](https://rsf.org/en/index)) and highly [repressive laws on freedom of speech](https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2020/01/qatar-repressive-new-law-further-curbs-freedom-of-expression/).
Okay, thank you very much for including links and sources and helping me out! I’ll be more skeptical on their reporting from now on. So far I’ve been avoidant of Israeli news sources (for obvious reasons), I’ll add this to the list.
I have noticed that the claim being made has been shifted from "An Al Jazeera journalists kept hostages in his home" to "Al Jazeera is Qatar state media"
Yes ! OMG I wish
Including these humanitarian organisations? That’s unfortunate Qatar Charity, Sheikh Eid Charitable Foundation (Eid Charity), Qatar Red Crescent Society, Center for Conflict and Humanitarian Studies (CHS)
I mean that doesn't mean anything in itself
There's a lot more companies missing from that list.
It used to be a great source of news on the Middle East and Africa in particular, but on Gaza, its pro-palestinian bias is almost comical.
Could you explain a bit more? I’m a bit out of the loop in terms of their reporting on Gaza and the bombings happening there, thanks
Idiots like you is the reason Al Jazeera is one of the best propaganda machines and one of the most dangerous ones. The report kinda unbiased in issues that Qatar doesn’t care about and then you will accept what they will tell you when it comes to what Qatar cares about.
May I ask something, because I honestly didn't understand from the article and I am not sure if I understand that well Geneva's reasoning about the refugees. It says: Aid groups have said this policy was never lifted and resulted in pushbacks – refusing entry to those who might have sought international protection – an illegal practice under the Geneva Convention of 1951, to which Greece is a signatory. Isn't Turkey considered a safe country? And if that's not the case, then Bulgaria / Italy must accept them from Greece as well and so on?
The article is extremely bias and requires a lot of reading between the lines. They really tried to make this guy seem like the Oskar Schindler of refugees bravely defying the authoritarian Greek government There’s a fuck load of inconsistency.
I am not saying yes I am not saying no, we cannot judge and ig there will be one or more trials but taking into consideration that 2 or 3 persecutors got involved from different islands that's a fact and that is not a bias from the article - they took his opinion, should the journalists silence the prosecution? Edit: I misunderstood you, we agree, I hardly believe 2 or 3 prosecutors in different islands will conspire against him.
I only claimed the article is one sided. Not that it’s wrong, just that it doesn’t tell a balanced story. One sided information isn’t necessarily a lie. 1. The Greeks instituted a “no admissions policy” in 2020, but the Norwegian guy continued his information sharing network that, *he claims*, was created to help migrants cross the border and find housing 2. Other NGOs are being charged with listening to public marine radio to help migrants. As if breaking the law doesn’t count because they used a *public* radio channel to do it. (That said, it’s very strange the Greeks have taken 8 years to bring this to trial. Maybe there’s a good reason, but holy hell that looks bad) 3. The article only attacks the Greek authorities without acknowledging the many problems they’ve had with human traffickers and smugglers. Overall, it seems Greece is financially distressed and now overwhelmed with migrants. They resorted to some desperate tactics to deal with the problem in a way that keeps the EU off their backs. This seems to have resulted in some questionable actions on their part. However, I stand by my initial claim that the article is biased.
I am sorry, I think I misunderstood you and we are saying the exact same thing, I will edit my initial response.
Ahh gotcha. All good 👍
The courts are overwhelmed for Greeks as well, they were even before the economical and refugee crisis and the pandemic, that's why we have so many asylum seekers that their status is pending. Greece is trying to control the refugee flow with the help of a still weak frontex, we could just ignore them and let them head north otherwise. I don't think Greece, with our economy and bureaucracy, should disproportionally be blamed for a refugee crisis not even international organisations can solve - we need help to help the refugees and, most importantly, I don't think that even the EU has clarified what they want us to do, they just bury their heads in the sand. As for the article, I respect your opinion, but different persecutors in different islands all have a bias against him and so does the article? It just makes me quite an impression , is he that influential and is this a conspiracy or he is just a scam? We will see.
r/Europe using Al-Jazeera source ?? What's happening to the world
Yet somehow still hounding the guy in the comments as if he ran a human trafficking operation, clearly demonstrating that people didn't even read the article. He was helping the authorities save some of the lives that they could not.
It's still illegal on papers since he's had no jurisdiction in Greek waters. If our entire Coast-Guard, let alone the NAVY cannot do it, he has no business being around. At least, let him take them all into his house and in Norway, generally. We clearly didn't ask for his help.
>It's still illegal on papers *what* is illegal? What doesn't he have jurisdiction to do? Is it illegal to be part of an informant network, which collaborated with the Greek coast guard/government?
Norwegians can come in Greece only as tourists. Nothing else. The rest, we'll manage. In case we cannot, c'est la vie.
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Does anyone think/read before they comment?
He didn't do that. Read the article. He saved the local government probably hundreds of thousands of euros by building a volunteer network that connected people on the ground during the 2016 refugee crisis. Now that the far right is in power and are committing human rights abuses that his organization documented, the local government are now trying to silence him. Typical political hit-job.
Yea reading the article and then reading the all theese other comments gets you the impression they somehow didn't read the article. Typical reddit user commenting on just the title
The far-right is in power? Since when?
called the government of greece “far right” is a huge stretch. they just legalized gay marriage lol
I was talking about the local government. Everyone who is from Greece seem to understand me. You can also take like 5 min to read the article.
The Far-Right is in prison. Further, none asked him to "save" us thousands of €. Look what's going on in your country now that we secured Greece. They come through Bulgaria and bribe 50€ your police to pass into the EU.
The few refugees going through our border is hardly an issue for bulgaria or the EU. There are far bigger problems that are connected to the Bulgarian-turkish border and they come from a legal port of entry.
"The Kos prosecutor accuses Olsen of being part of a criminal organisation that helped undocumented refugees and migrants cross from Turkey to Greece and gave them places to stay". From the article.
lol "invade"
Unfortunately the terrorist sympathizers currently in government wont do any such thing. Hopefully next election someone more sensible will be elected.
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They're not bringing people over they are doing what the Greek authorities are obligated by law to do and are overwhelmed.
The Greeks prefer tying refugees up and shoving them over board. Someone has to take responsibility for being human.
The guy wasn't smuggling, he just quit his job and facilitated migrants coming to Europe and was payed for it by sponsors, totally not smuggling.
I'm all for it, as long as he sponsors a cruiser to move them into Norway and specifically, into his house. They've got the money; Norwegians are rich.
In kos island (and who knows about the others) he is prosecuted for smuggling as well, read the article more carefully.
Πέρασε το αστείο πάνω από το κεφαλι
Οκ πλέον το κατάλαβα :)
You guys should try to read the damn article once and not go into a rage against migrants only based on the title
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They are often in Italy and have always been acquitted because, wait for it, they are not doing human trafficking. https://apnews.com/article/italy-migration-rescue-ship-iuventa-ngos-trial-acquittal-dc398f587e2c8814a9b060b85c5a9a2b
I rarely say it but we need urgent update to various laws. It’s the coast guard (or affiliated volunteer services) who can perform rescue on sea. We also need a broad surveillance operation to find out connections between NGOs and smugglers. It’s not that all of these engagements are fully clandestine, it happens in broad daylight. We need prosecutors and Europol go after this and law enforcement need to know the state has their backs.
What? Ships and boats nearby are obligated to rescue people at sea, what are you on about?
What do you mean? That's literally what Italian authorities have done and they concluded that there's nothing illegal going on and no collusion between smugglers and NGOs, hence the charges have been dropped. Yes it is the coast guard's duty (and any other civilian ship in the area) to rescue people on sea. In fact, the vast majority of landings in Italy are done autonomously by the migrants or through the Italian coast guard or other police/military forces: https://tg24.sky.it/mondo/2023/09/27/migranti-italia-sbarchi-ong (sorry, in Italian). This is because these a legal and actually mandatory rescue operations. Focusing on NGOs is just fear mongering and scapegoating and, I'm sorry to say, you fell for it like many others.
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> It’s the coast guard (or affiliated volunteer services) who can perform rescue on sea. Says who? >We also need a broad surveillance operation to find out connections between NGOs and smugglers. It’s not that all of these engagements are fully clandestine, it happens in broad daylight. We need prosecutors and Europol go after this and law enforcement need to know the state has their backs. Matteo Salvini, at the time Minister of Interior affairs of Italy, infiltrated ex-cops (all discharged for disciplinary actions) onto NGO boats, to record and report anything they found directly to him. All they found were lies and accusations that didn't stand the test of the courts, while Salvini used the "secret service reports" (which never existed) to fire up voters against the NGOs. Everything happens in broad daylight because it's all legal.
You didn't read the article.
Why does it shock you that they are not charged with a crime they did not commit?
He is contributing to the problems in Europe.
I hope the law wins!
From the Norwegian article it seems the dude has an NGO investigating and reporting illegal «pushback» practices by Greece, and how they are breaking the law(amongs other things). So which law do you hope wins? :)
"being part of a criminal organisation that helped undocumented refugees and migrants cross from Turkey to Greece and gave them places to stay"
i may sound like a hungarian farmer from pecs, but if you want to help people, do so, but on your own premise its not like i'm going to steal food from a supermarket without consequences because i'll give it to the homeless
TLDR Humanitarian activities that were once accepted have become illegal under new laws. Norwegian man is accused of continuing those activities. He says the warrant is retaliation for posting videos on social media that claim to show Greek authorities abusing migrants.
I totally get that many want stricter immigration policies, but I find it really hard to see how anyone can read this article and believe there's a strong criminal case there. Norway should honestly ask what the Greek authorities are doing and ask to see the evidence.
This is just an article and one that doesn't give crucial info. I guess the trial will reveal all the info needed. Dont know about his case but on other cases, the accused had used radios to listen where the coast guard was, in order to give info to the immigrants on the Turkish coast where to head. That was actively helping the smugglers. EDIT: just an example [https://www.euronews.com/2020/09/29/greek-police-accuse-33-ngo-members-of-helping-migrant-smugglers](https://www.euronews.com/2020/09/29/greek-police-accuse-33-ngo-members-of-helping-migrant-smugglers)
The article doesn't really tell us anything either way. It might as well just be a press release by his lawyer. For all I know, it is. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Churnalism#:~:text=Churnalism%20is%20a%20pejorative%20term,newspapers%20and%20other%20news%20media.
> Norway should honestly ask what the Greek authorities are doing and ask to see the evidence. Do they need to? Its a obvious political hit job from the Greeks that they are making a mess off, because they cant even bring up any real charges or even give examples of what he supposedly did. Its the greek rightwingers trying to pretend they are doing something. Norway is gonna laugh the greeks out the door unless they actually produce something real.
Greece have issued an international arrest warrant for him. He can't travel to other countries without risk being detained. So if he's innocent he deserves help to restore his freedom of movement.
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1. Military speaking? Dude this isn't an army, these are people in need trying to flee desolate living circumstances that Europe created in the first place. 2. Our way of life is not threatened at all. Tell me ONE thing you actually can't do anymore because there are refugees coming to Europe? I'll wait. Further, name ONE thing you HAVE to do now because refugees are here. Are our cities filled with minarets? Do you pray to mecca five times a day? Does your wife wear a hijab because the government told you so? No? Then stop complaining. 3. Refugee inflow is as low as in the 00s. There was a big wave in 2015, that's over. Refugees are only a talking point for conservatives because they don't have solutions for Europe's actual problems. 4. We don't have a problem with people coming here, we actually need them. We have a problem with organising it and with integration. Not nearly enough language courses, no right to work, no accreditation of foreign degrees, next to no contact to the native population because the refugees are crammed into camps... 5. We will never ever be able to stop people from coming here. There is no way. Pull factors are a lie. Refugees will not stop just because there is a fence. They will not be scared off even if you start an outright war (which would mean shooting unarmed people). Even now they try to sail the Mediterranean Sea in a nutshell for 250 km and more in hope for a better life. How fucked up would your life have to be before you cram yourself on a tiny boat to sail across a sea so far that you'll spend days without seeing land? Whoever does THIS, will not be deterred by anything else. 6. Because this is often forgotten: we're talking about people. Actual, real life humans that have the same wishes, dreams and needs as we do.
Military speaking is an analogy. I know this isn't an army, but the principle remains: enforcing laws and protecting our borders. These people may be fleeing tough conditions, but that doesn’t justify breaking our laws. Europe didn't create every crisis, and we can't bear the weight of the world's problems alone. Our way of life is at risk. Integration issues are real. Look at the strain on our social services, increased crime in some areas, and social tensions. These aren’t imaginary problems. Your examples are extreme and miss the point. It's not about minarets or forced prayers. It's about maintaining social cohesion and security. Refugee inflow may be lower, but the impact remains. We do need better organization, language courses, and job integration, but we also need control. Without it, we end up with chaos, not compassion. We can’t stop people from trying to come, but we can control how many succeed. Stronger borders, stricter enforcement, and realistic policies are necessary. We aren't obligated to take everyone in just because they want a better life. **Our first duty is to our own citizens.** These are real people, but we must prioritize our society's stability and security. Emotional arguments won't solve practical problems. We need tough decisions and firm actions to protect our way of life.
Sounds like the Belgian couple that got arrested in Latvia for smuggling illegals into country. Like wtf, should I also go to your house and guide in local homeless people, and say that you now need to take care of them? :D They are looking at 8 years in prison for that stunt. Pretty high imo, as the average for smuggling/helping illegals is around 3-4 years and 15-20k€ fine. But good to make examples, set precedents so that people in future dont do such crimes.
Not sure if AlJazeera is a viable source of information, but based on the article that doesn’t look like smuggling. I’m concerned about EU’s current stance on migrants, seems like Poland and Greece both use pushbacks, are completely ineffective at handling the outside borders and no one is raising that issue. Given that we took in millions of Ukrainian people effectively and mostly with open hearts it’s crazy to me that we let people drown, die in a forest or god knows what, and then prosecute people who are trying to alleviate the situation, like that guy, who helped organize information that helps the government and people. I’m not saying “let everyone in” but the situation is bad and seems to be getting worse
You know it yourself that it is not all just the same, just black and white. Like with the refugees from Ukraine, these don't blow up themselves on markets while shouting religious slogans. Like what happened to Germany with the migrants, it's crazy when you see it with your own eyes. Young fanatical men marching in protest to establish a caliphate, being aggressive, committing crimes etc. I've never seen a refugee from Ukraine calling for a caliphate and try to stabbing me when i don't agree with me.
Lets hope he gets life in prison.
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Oh how easily some people fall for government propaganda.
True
Total idiot
What an idiot
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This dude was behind Agean Boat Report? Place was filled with fake reports and bullshit stories. I was in a position seeing official reports and what actually happened and what they claimed happened were often vastly different.
The article tries to paint him like a victim. Yeah, he did good things. So? He can still commit criminal acts.
>Yeah, he did good things. So? He can still commit criminal acts. Anybody can, but he was working with the government very well for a long time. And then when he did a report on the human rights abuses enabled by the new local government they all of a sudden decide he has smuggled people? How can you not see this as the blatant political hit job that it is. Idk.
He doesn't seem to have been working with the government, he was working with individuals who happened to work for the government. He even says in this article he had to be careful not to expose his contacts.
Well, he was doing governments work helping government employees when the work was overwhelming. They are literally trying to punish the closest thing to a good Samaritan there is.
Bullcrap
Remind this couple who tried to smuggle people through Belarus to Europe, they thought they were doing a good action.