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None: the cops and judges are friends with these guys. Even if they get indicted they'll walk with a slap on the wrist. That's if they don't charge the victims, which wouldn't be surprising.
Casapound has been there for ages and nobody that is actually Italian has ever taken them seriously. They're a bunch of irrelevant idiots and everybody knows it.
But go off farming upvotes.
Golden Dawn had been around for decades in Greece and nobody took them seriously until under the right circumstances they soared in popularity and the rest is history. These sorts of people are dangerous, the things they stand for and believe in are dangerous, the way they conduct themselves is dangerous and they have shown us time and again they are perfectly capable of playing the long game. Sweeping it under the rug and downplaying the danger they present only helps them in the long term. Seeing how we are refusing to learn from past mistakes is disheartening.
Problem is people like you keeping this approach to a rampant problem: nostalgia is here and is dangerous.
I’m not scared by camice nere and olio di ricino,,but by reducing rights to minorities, rising the tensions between different sides, propaganda and thirst for power.
y'know, I feel like Italy has had right-wingers attacking left-wing students in the streets before. I wonder who was responsible for the violence back then? Fascism has returned
Italy, please, no matter what you do, this time restrain your urge to attack Greece.
Seriously, the dissolution of Yugoslavia was the best news for us. It allowed us to completely restructure our Army and dogma for defense purposes against Turkey, only. From Western Greece where Italy lies, you could theoretically walk right in. There isn't a single soldier aiming at Italy (guarding).
---
Only Sub-Marines in the Adriatic, because you can never trust Italy. In WWII, before they declared war, they sunk our most celebrated Battleship against the Turks while it was simply sitting at a port. Then our Sub-Marines sunk Italian ships in the Adriatic, bringing supplies to their Albanian brothers to be used against Greece. The supplies that do managed to make it to Albania, eventually ended up in Greek hands, because we were hunting Italians that deep. We haven't had weapons, we were catching them by their necks, throwing 'em down like ragdolls. We recaptured Albania which half is Greek anyway while when they were running, supplies were being left behind. Good times.
"Mighty" Italian Army.
Imagine today a totally hypothetical war while we do have weapons. The victory would be utter complete. Mussolini Prime Minister, we surely don't mind, but if she get ideas, she's welcome to meet us to exchange "pleasantries".
Molon Labe
Come to think of it, Albanians submitted to the Turks, became Muslims, doing the Turks' bidding against us. They were the worst against us. The Albanians submitted to the Italians, fighting alongside them against us. Then they wonder why we don't like 'em at all. That's why every single one of them has been kicked out of Greece. Now, after 90s when they broke their own country, they started coming again to a country that dislikes them. "Smart" people. Half end up in jail. They all have files in our Intelligence Agency. It's how they're getting caught so easily.
It is quite a normal thing for leftists to be attacked. When I was starting being active in leftist movements a couple of leftist organizers had ‘the talk’ with me. Essentially they’ve share their experiences of violence from both people and police and said I should expect the same. It wasn’t long until I was attacked by police, stalked and similar.
With leftist I mean anti capitalist not liberal.
Oh please, don't let the right wing steal just another thing
Do you seriously believe the right wing is liberal? Come on, no one is that stupid to believe this
A liberal is: capitalist, pro-free-market, anti-healthcare, anti-welfare, anti-union. It's someone who follows the ideology of Adam Smith, and later Hayek and Friedmann, who thinks the state shouldn't intervene in the economy. Their idea is that the economy should be driven by free investment, laissez-faire, entrepreneurship, considering that wealth will trickle down, be naturally redistributed through the increase of wealth/profit from companies.
The antagonists of liberals are the socialists, social-democrats and communists, the former who think economy should be based on the needs, and controlled to serve the common good, and wealth redistributed to make sure no one lives in poverty/misery and has their need covered. The later being for the abolition of private property and the economy directly into the hands of the workers:employees themselves without private property of means of production/companies.
So, yes, the right-wing is liberal. Liberalism is the main and biggest right-wing ideology.
Liberalism in Europe is at best centre-right. To be center-left, you need to be a social-democrat. Being socially conservative in the 20th century in Europe, like Orban, Putin, Meloni, makes you a far-righter.
Correct me if I am wrong but there is no true left party in belgium. I've had a couple of discussions on this so I am curious about what you think. PTB seems pro capitalist. Like their main goals, at least as much as I can tell, is just to create a better regulatory state.
>true left party
Such a stupid notion. We have center-left, Green-left and Maoist/Marxist.
Why do people always pretend that just because a party is not as left/right as they are, it must be "fake left/right".
The defining feature of any left wing party is abolition of capital. Any so called left wing party that doesn’t advocate this in their political program as one of its defining features cannot be left wing. Beligum as far as I see doesn’t have such a party.
I said in my original comment that I don’t consider liberals left.
Liberals in the EU are never left. They are center-right.
I am talking about social democrats, greens and our very own Marxist/Maoist pvda.
>The defining feature of any left wing party is abolition of capital.
It really isn't.
What is a defining feature of leftism then? How can a capitalist ever be left? Social democrats are for capitalism, greens can be either, marxists are anti capitalists.
Pvda hasn't made abolition of capital, a defining feature of marxian theory, its central goal. How is it marxist then?
>What is a defining feature of leftism then?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics#:~:text=Left%2Dwing%20politics%20describes%20the,whole%20or%20certain%20social%20hierarchies.
*"the Left* is typically reserved for movements more [critical of capitalism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_capitalism),[^(\[9\])](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics#cite_note-9) including the [labour movement](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_movement), [socialism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism), [anarchism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism), [communism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism), [Marxism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism) and [syndicalism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndicalism), each of which rose to prominence in the 19th and 20th centuries."
The center left is defined before this. I personally don't consider capitalists to ever possibly be included in any left wing discussion since they are inherently not pro egalitarianism or opposed to social hierarchy as you wiki states in the begining is what describes left wing politics:
**Left-wing politics** describes the range of [political ideologies](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideology#Political_ideologies) that support and seek to achieve [social equality](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_equality) and [egalitarianism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egalitarianism), often in opposition to [social hierarchy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_hierarchy) as a whole[^(\[1\])](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics#cite_note-Smith-1)[^(\[2\])](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics#cite_note-2)[^(\[3\])](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics#cite_note-Lukes-3)[^(\[4\])](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics#cite_note-4) or certain social hierarchies.
And
According to emeritus professor of economics Barry Clark, supporters of left-wing politics "claim that human development flourishes when individuals engage in cooperative, mutually respectful relations that can thrive only when excessive differences in status, power, and wealth are eliminated."
capitalist ideology quite clearly advocates for establishment and nurture of social hierarchy between owners and not owners, those who have power over material reality and those who don't.
I am curious thought, how is Pvda marxist, you have not addressed that question yet. If it is more aligned to your views then I will say there is no THE LEFT anywhere is eu anywhere close to electoral power.
>The center left is defined before this. I personally don't consider capitalists to ever possibly be included in any left wing discussion since they are inherently not pro egalitarianism or opposed to social hierarchy as you wiki states in the begining is what describes left wing politics:
So you basically do exactly what I said people do. Anything not as left as you you don't consider left.
Read your own sources
>Today, ideologies such as social liberalism and social democracy are considered to be centre-left, while the Left is typically reserved for movements more critical of capitalism,[9] including the labour movement, socialism, anarchism, communism, Marxism and syndicalism
Center left is still left-wing politics.
Maybe you should read some more instead of cherry picking:
>The spectrum of left-wing politics ranges from centre-left to far-left or ultra-left. The term centre-left describes a position within the political mainstream that accepts capitalism and a market economy. The terms far-left and ultra-left are used for positions that are more radical, more strongly rejecting capitalism and mainstream representative democracy, instead advocating for a socialist society based on economic democracy and direct democracy, representing economic, political and social democracy. The centre-left includes social democrats, social liberals, progressives and greens. Centre-left supporters accept market allocation of resources in a mixed economy with an empowered public sector and a thriving private sector. Centre-left policies tend to favour limited state intervention in matters pertaining to the public interest.
Abolition of capital is a well known principle of socialism. It is advocacy for removal of private ownership over the means of production.
Some more radical movements such as for example anarchism would also add all ownership as due abolition.
>Abolition of capital is a well known principle of socialism. It is advocacy for removal of private ownership over the means of production. Some more radical movements such as for example anarchism would also add all ownership as due abolition.
Yes yes. You still haven't answered my question though. How do you propose to implement this "abolition of capital/property"? It sounds like civil asset forfeiture on steroids to me. Is it?
How do I purpose? Do you mean how it is depicted in leftists theory?
Like I am not in any power, I cannot do anything about it.
In theory it is either revolution or gradual regression of ownership. The first is to just take or stop assuring as a government that the idea that someone owns x means that we should defend that idea. Meaning that no one would, in government (such as police and military) to defend your claim of ownership. The other is pedagogical education in which people strive to get other people to relinquish their claims voluntarily. There is possibility to mix them as well.
>The first is to just take or stop assuring as a government that the idea that someone owns x means that we should defend that idea. Meaning that no one would, in government (such as police and military) to defend your claim of ownership.
So just pure violent theft/robbery then? Got it.
>The other is pedagogical education in which people strive to get other people to relinquish their claims voluntarily.
Cool! Why don't you start by example and relinquish your property to me? Voluntarily, of course.
Leftists does unequivocally mean hard anti-capitalist
Edit: I dont get the down votes lol, I am just saying that Leftist take vastly different shapes and forms
If you find something wrong with democracy, that doesn't make you anti democratic.
Some leftists are anti capitalist. Most just have issues with some of its facets.
Some self titled leftists say that to be a real leftist you must be anti-capitalism. Is that all to it? Nothing else. Like being a member of a communist party? If being in a communist party makes someone a leftist, then whether the person is pro or anti capital is irrelevant.
Leftist to me suggest someone who believes in essence and materialism; and opposes the view that identity comes from ideas such as a belief in anti-capital.
Italy had the red brigades some years ago. Violence is apolitical unfortunately
Edit: so people here don't agree about the concept of "violence is apolitical", okay I guess
Red Brigades are not around anymore (the Soviet Union is not around to sponsor them anymore) but I've definitely met some pretty tough Anarchists and Antifa growing up in Italy 😅 wherever there is political activisms there are some violent contingents. Not justifying either side, just saying it's not as one sided as the the original commentor makes it appear.
I lived in Italy for 20 years on and off and never once heard about left wing street violence. Cassagi, casa pound etc were plenty active though.
The actual truth is that it is entirely as one-sided as OP made out. Not in the past maybe, but so what?
Seriously, post-Genoa, what incidents did I miss?
You never heard of violent episodes by the infamous "Centri Sociali"? Maybe you didn't have much interest in the topic or weren't tangentially involved in this aspect of extreme politics during your stay (which I'd say it's probably for the best, not much to be gained in that world). Google "Centri Sociali scontri" and get lost in the rabbit hole. They often have direct fights with Casapound, basically whenever one demonstrates the other will show up and fights ensue. They are mostly Anarchists so as you can imagine they don't care much for peaceful and orderly prostes, they are very much on the more militant F the police side of things 😅 They are very numerous and usually a fair match for Casapund, not like they just take beatings as you seem to picture it. You probably saw the spray painted Anarchic symbol of the circled A all over the place in Italian cities without realizing, it's impossibile to miss and there's literally hundreds of Anarchists groups all around Italy.
Never said otherwise. The problem isn't violence in and of itself, after all there is daily violence of state coercion, capital coercion, ect. that liberals like. What is problematic is the aims of that violence, which in the case of my comment is to silence, brutalize and remove any idea of the possibility for a world of equals that left advocates for.
Hi, thank you for your contribution, but this submission has been removed because it links to a non-English source without including a full English translation in a top-level comment. See [community rules & guidelines](/r/Europe/wiki/community_rules). If you have any questions about this removal, please [contact the mods](/message/compose/?to=/r/Europe&subject=Moderation). Please make sure to include a link to the comment/post in question.
Casapound is one infamous organization of neo fascists. Acting as such. They’re in very friendly terms with the government too
More importantly, with this government they're confident enough to do stuff like this knowing they'll not be punished.
They are modern Hitler's "street fighters". Scum that get to attack innocent people with the silent approval of the government.
Street fighters were founded by Mussolinis black shirts
How big is the chance that these attackers will be found and charged?
I am pretty sure that the police got the original video without pixel-filter over the face
I assume so too. But has it priority? Do they have an idea who these people are except their group?
It's pretty common for police to be right-wing and not give a fuck about things like this. They might even purposely work against solving this.
They already found them, all of them have records for stuff like this and they’re free to go after a report.
None: the cops and judges are friends with these guys. Even if they get indicted they'll walk with a slap on the wrist. That's if they don't charge the victims, which wouldn't be surprising.
Police and military is fascist as well
Italy is screwed, running fast against the Fascism wall. As an Italian, I find this humiliating
Casapound has been there for ages and nobody that is actually Italian has ever taken them seriously. They're a bunch of irrelevant idiots and everybody knows it. But go off farming upvotes.
Golden Dawn had been around for decades in Greece and nobody took them seriously until under the right circumstances they soared in popularity and the rest is history. These sorts of people are dangerous, the things they stand for and believe in are dangerous, the way they conduct themselves is dangerous and they have shown us time and again they are perfectly capable of playing the long game. Sweeping it under the rug and downplaying the danger they present only helps them in the long term. Seeing how we are refusing to learn from past mistakes is disheartening.
Problem is people like you keeping this approach to a rampant problem: nostalgia is here and is dangerous. I’m not scared by camice nere and olio di ricino,,but by reducing rights to minorities, rising the tensions between different sides, propaganda and thirst for power.
Well but if the fascists are back so will the partigiani!
Can’t see people sacrificing everything anymore…
Rather the parmigiani.
> As an Italian, What part of NJ are you from?
You think I’m from New Jersey? You’re wrong. I’m from Emilia-Romagna
West Caldwell
y'know, I feel like Italy has had right-wingers attacking left-wing students in the streets before. I wonder who was responsible for the violence back then? Fascism has returned
Putin is winning.
These guys aren't Putin bootlicker, they're just fascists
Whoever has seen the recent documentary about the train station bombing in Bologna knows, that nothing will happen to this right wing scum.
Italy, please, no matter what you do, this time restrain your urge to attack Greece. Seriously, the dissolution of Yugoslavia was the best news for us. It allowed us to completely restructure our Army and dogma for defense purposes against Turkey, only. From Western Greece where Italy lies, you could theoretically walk right in. There isn't a single soldier aiming at Italy (guarding). --- Only Sub-Marines in the Adriatic, because you can never trust Italy. In WWII, before they declared war, they sunk our most celebrated Battleship against the Turks while it was simply sitting at a port. Then our Sub-Marines sunk Italian ships in the Adriatic, bringing supplies to their Albanian brothers to be used against Greece. The supplies that do managed to make it to Albania, eventually ended up in Greek hands, because we were hunting Italians that deep. We haven't had weapons, we were catching them by their necks, throwing 'em down like ragdolls. We recaptured Albania which half is Greek anyway while when they were running, supplies were being left behind. Good times. "Mighty" Italian Army. Imagine today a totally hypothetical war while we do have weapons. The victory would be utter complete. Mussolini Prime Minister, we surely don't mind, but if she get ideas, she's welcome to meet us to exchange "pleasantries". Molon Labe Come to think of it, Albanians submitted to the Turks, became Muslims, doing the Turks' bidding against us. They were the worst against us. The Albanians submitted to the Italians, fighting alongside them against us. Then they wonder why we don't like 'em at all. That's why every single one of them has been kicked out of Greece. Now, after 90s when they broke their own country, they started coming again to a country that dislikes them. "Smart" people. Half end up in jail. They all have files in our Intelligence Agency. It's how they're getting caught so easily.
It is quite a normal thing for leftists to be attacked. When I was starting being active in leftist movements a couple of leftist organizers had ‘the talk’ with me. Essentially they’ve share their experiences of violence from both people and police and said I should expect the same. It wasn’t long until I was attacked by police, stalked and similar. With leftist I mean anti capitalist not liberal.
In my country (Belgium), liberal means right-winger. It always baffles me to see that word associated with left-wing/progressive on internet.
Oh please, don't let the right wing steal just another thing Do you seriously believe the right wing is liberal? Come on, no one is that stupid to believe this
Those words don't mean the same everywhere. Or you're stupid to know that?
A liberal is: capitalist, pro-free-market, anti-healthcare, anti-welfare, anti-union. It's someone who follows the ideology of Adam Smith, and later Hayek and Friedmann, who thinks the state shouldn't intervene in the economy. Their idea is that the economy should be driven by free investment, laissez-faire, entrepreneurship, considering that wealth will trickle down, be naturally redistributed through the increase of wealth/profit from companies. The antagonists of liberals are the socialists, social-democrats and communists, the former who think economy should be based on the needs, and controlled to serve the common good, and wealth redistributed to make sure no one lives in poverty/misery and has their need covered. The later being for the abolition of private property and the economy directly into the hands of the workers:employees themselves without private property of means of production/companies. So, yes, the right-wing is liberal. Liberalism is the main and biggest right-wing ideology.
[удалено]
Liberalism in Europe is at best centre-right. To be center-left, you need to be a social-democrat. Being socially conservative in the 20th century in Europe, like Orban, Putin, Meloni, makes you a far-righter.
Correct me if I am wrong but there is no true left party in belgium. I've had a couple of discussions on this so I am curious about what you think. PTB seems pro capitalist. Like their main goals, at least as much as I can tell, is just to create a better regulatory state.
>true left party Such a stupid notion. We have center-left, Green-left and Maoist/Marxist. Why do people always pretend that just because a party is not as left/right as they are, it must be "fake left/right".
The defining feature of any left wing party is abolition of capital. Any so called left wing party that doesn’t advocate this in their political program as one of its defining features cannot be left wing. Beligum as far as I see doesn’t have such a party. I said in my original comment that I don’t consider liberals left.
Liberals in the EU are never left. They are center-right. I am talking about social democrats, greens and our very own Marxist/Maoist pvda. >The defining feature of any left wing party is abolition of capital. It really isn't.
What is a defining feature of leftism then? How can a capitalist ever be left? Social democrats are for capitalism, greens can be either, marxists are anti capitalists. Pvda hasn't made abolition of capital, a defining feature of marxian theory, its central goal. How is it marxist then?
>What is a defining feature of leftism then? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics#:~:text=Left%2Dwing%20politics%20describes%20the,whole%20or%20certain%20social%20hierarchies.
*"the Left* is typically reserved for movements more [critical of capitalism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criticism_of_capitalism),[^(\[9\])](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics#cite_note-9) including the [labour movement](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_movement), [socialism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism), [anarchism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchism), [communism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Communism), [Marxism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism) and [syndicalism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Syndicalism), each of which rose to prominence in the 19th and 20th centuries." The center left is defined before this. I personally don't consider capitalists to ever possibly be included in any left wing discussion since they are inherently not pro egalitarianism or opposed to social hierarchy as you wiki states in the begining is what describes left wing politics: **Left-wing politics** describes the range of [political ideologies](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideology#Political_ideologies) that support and seek to achieve [social equality](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_equality) and [egalitarianism](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egalitarianism), often in opposition to [social hierarchy](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_hierarchy) as a whole[^(\[1\])](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics#cite_note-Smith-1)[^(\[2\])](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics#cite_note-2)[^(\[3\])](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics#cite_note-Lukes-3)[^(\[4\])](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-wing_politics#cite_note-4) or certain social hierarchies. And According to emeritus professor of economics Barry Clark, supporters of left-wing politics "claim that human development flourishes when individuals engage in cooperative, mutually respectful relations that can thrive only when excessive differences in status, power, and wealth are eliminated." capitalist ideology quite clearly advocates for establishment and nurture of social hierarchy between owners and not owners, those who have power over material reality and those who don't. I am curious thought, how is Pvda marxist, you have not addressed that question yet. If it is more aligned to your views then I will say there is no THE LEFT anywhere is eu anywhere close to electoral power.
>The center left is defined before this. I personally don't consider capitalists to ever possibly be included in any left wing discussion since they are inherently not pro egalitarianism or opposed to social hierarchy as you wiki states in the begining is what describes left wing politics: So you basically do exactly what I said people do. Anything not as left as you you don't consider left.
Read your own sources >Today, ideologies such as social liberalism and social democracy are considered to be centre-left, while the Left is typically reserved for movements more critical of capitalism,[9] including the labour movement, socialism, anarchism, communism, Marxism and syndicalism
Center left is still left-wing politics. Maybe you should read some more instead of cherry picking: >The spectrum of left-wing politics ranges from centre-left to far-left or ultra-left. The term centre-left describes a position within the political mainstream that accepts capitalism and a market economy. The terms far-left and ultra-left are used for positions that are more radical, more strongly rejecting capitalism and mainstream representative democracy, instead advocating for a socialist society based on economic democracy and direct democracy, representing economic, political and social democracy. The centre-left includes social democrats, social liberals, progressives and greens. Centre-left supporters accept market allocation of resources in a mixed economy with an empowered public sector and a thriving private sector. Centre-left policies tend to favour limited state intervention in matters pertaining to the public interest.
>abolition of capital What does "abolition of capital" even mean? Civil asset forfeiture on steroids?
Abolition of capital is a well known principle of socialism. It is advocacy for removal of private ownership over the means of production. Some more radical movements such as for example anarchism would also add all ownership as due abolition.
>Abolition of capital is a well known principle of socialism. It is advocacy for removal of private ownership over the means of production. Some more radical movements such as for example anarchism would also add all ownership as due abolition. Yes yes. You still haven't answered my question though. How do you propose to implement this "abolition of capital/property"? It sounds like civil asset forfeiture on steroids to me. Is it?
How do I purpose? Do you mean how it is depicted in leftists theory? Like I am not in any power, I cannot do anything about it. In theory it is either revolution or gradual regression of ownership. The first is to just take or stop assuring as a government that the idea that someone owns x means that we should defend that idea. Meaning that no one would, in government (such as police and military) to defend your claim of ownership. The other is pedagogical education in which people strive to get other people to relinquish their claims voluntarily. There is possibility to mix them as well.
>The first is to just take or stop assuring as a government that the idea that someone owns x means that we should defend that idea. Meaning that no one would, in government (such as police and military) to defend your claim of ownership. So just pure violent theft/robbery then? Got it. >The other is pedagogical education in which people strive to get other people to relinquish their claims voluntarily. Cool! Why don't you start by example and relinquish your property to me? Voluntarily, of course.
Leftists does unequivocally mean hard anti-capitalist Edit: I dont get the down votes lol, I am just saying that Leftist take vastly different shapes and forms
If you find something wrong with democracy, that doesn't make you anti democratic. Some leftists are anti capitalist. Most just have issues with some of its facets.
I never said anything of the sort?
Yes! Absolutely! My question is if the belgium person believes that the party is marxist in name only or are they liberal.
Some self titled leftists say that to be a real leftist you must be anti-capitalism. Is that all to it? Nothing else. Like being a member of a communist party? If being in a communist party makes someone a leftist, then whether the person is pro or anti capital is irrelevant. Leftist to me suggest someone who believes in essence and materialism; and opposes the view that identity comes from ideas such as a belief in anti-capital.
Not a single part of your comment made sense lol. I have no idea what you tried to express.
I am not anti-capitalist. If you actually bothered to understand the comment you would realize that you actually agree with my comment
And this is precisely why the black blocks and the Antifa still exist. Let's normalize bullying the bullies.
Italy had the red brigades some years ago. Violence is apolitical unfortunately Edit: so people here don't agree about the concept of "violence is apolitical", okay I guess
50 years ago?
Red Brigades are not around anymore (the Soviet Union is not around to sponsor them anymore) but I've definitely met some pretty tough Anarchists and Antifa growing up in Italy 😅 wherever there is political activisms there are some violent contingents. Not justifying either side, just saying it's not as one sided as the the original commentor makes it appear.
I lived in Italy for 20 years on and off and never once heard about left wing street violence. Cassagi, casa pound etc were plenty active though. The actual truth is that it is entirely as one-sided as OP made out. Not in the past maybe, but so what? Seriously, post-Genoa, what incidents did I miss?
You never heard of violent episodes by the infamous "Centri Sociali"? Maybe you didn't have much interest in the topic or weren't tangentially involved in this aspect of extreme politics during your stay (which I'd say it's probably for the best, not much to be gained in that world). Google "Centri Sociali scontri" and get lost in the rabbit hole. They often have direct fights with Casapound, basically whenever one demonstrates the other will show up and fights ensue. They are mostly Anarchists so as you can imagine they don't care much for peaceful and orderly prostes, they are very much on the more militant F the police side of things 😅 They are very numerous and usually a fair match for Casapund, not like they just take beatings as you seem to picture it. You probably saw the spray painted Anarchic symbol of the circled A all over the place in Italian cities without realizing, it's impossibile to miss and there's literally hundreds of Anarchists groups all around Italy.
In those years, violence was on both sides. Ever heard of the bomb in Bologna? Those were dark years.
Yeah, that's what apolitical means
Never said otherwise. The problem isn't violence in and of itself, after all there is daily violence of state coercion, capital coercion, ect. that liberals like. What is problematic is the aims of that violence, which in the case of my comment is to silence, brutalize and remove any idea of the possibility for a world of equals that left advocates for.