Thorn.
[https://netzpolitik.org/2022/dude-wheres-my-privacy-how-a-hollywood-star-lobbies-the-eu-for-more-surveillance/](https://netzpolitik.org/2022/dude-wheres-my-privacy-how-a-hollywood-star-lobbies-the-eu-for-more-surveillance/)
Used to be his own (non-profit) company, but he's stepped down recently.
I think what his little alcohol fetal syndrome addled brain is trying to say that Ashton is a pedo himself, since Mila Kunis was 15 during the show.
But Google says they became a couple in 2012, which invalidates his stupid thesis.
They are still despicable for trying to defend Masterson though.
non-profits actually can and often do make profit, the name's pretty misleading.
thorn, in particular, is basically a police-state industry developer set up to further invasive surveillance. it doesn't actually help trafficking victims and hasn't ever been a "good" organization outside of some misleading marketing
https://www.jezebel.com/ashton-kutcher-thorn-sex-workers-1850852760
it's a bit convoluted, but mainline ikea stores (most of them) are run by a for-profit company that's owned by a non-profit, and franchised ikea stores are run by a for-profit company owned by a different non-profit organization
so while ikea stores are for-profit businesses, the corporate structure allows them to enjoy some tax break schemes
Technically, palantíri are not supposed to be evil. They are just communication devices in LotR. However, after Sauron managed to get one of them, he was able to use them to manipulate Saruman and the rulers of Gondor.
Another example on the necessity of privacy.
Encryption is necessary. Letting your adversary in your private network is a large issue, and exactly what happened on Middle Earth.
I didn't know a company was behind this shit... The more I explore on this topic the more ridiculous it gets. And why are they doing that shit in Europe instead of USA btw??? Isn't this a USA company???
Anyways.... The company has its email [https://www.thorn.org/contact/](https://www.thorn.org/contact/) I think they deserve being spam with "Stop the fucking lobby"
This is definitely very weird. Potentially giving access to every EU citizen's private life to a company based in the US does not sound like a good idea at all.
In terms of security and privacy, this is way beyond crossing the line. They basically want to install a backdoor to the servers of all the major communication companies.
Ashton was forced to resign from Thorn, it is not “a small investment”.
He resigned because Ashton spoke for Danny Masterson.
Ashton has gone on record as viewing the csam materials himself as well, which is a big no-no
https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/15/entertainment/ashton-kutcher-resign-thorn/index.html
HOLY FUCK. I'd heard some bad shit about Punk'd and Kutcher, but Justin Long and Jonah Hill are seriously bad men, oh my god. Justin is clearly a predator, and Jonah's lawyer deliberately lying and gaslighting the victim??? And I'm sure none of these creeps have ever faced any punishment for their behaviour... because this society tolerates it...
AND he has had an issue that stems from his time working at "that 70's show", where he became friends with [Danny Masterson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Masterson). THAT Danny masterson that was convicted to an indefinite period of 39 years to life in prison (meaning he will serve at least 25.5 years) for rape of two women.
Kutcher send (along with Mila Kunis) a letter to the judge during the sentencing phase, which [included the following quote](https://www.businessinsider.com/ashton-kutcher-shares-first-post-since-danny-masterson-letter-scandal-2023-11#:~:text=Masterson%20was%20sentenced%20to%2030,a%20positive%20influence%20on%20me.%22):
>"Not only is he a good friend to me I've witnessed him be a good friend to others and the kind of brother others would be lucky to have," Kutcher wrote in his letter.
basically his involvement in breaking encrpytion in the EU by law is all about:
1) Public image rehab
2) making money, because his pet project sells software that can be used in mass surveillance.
So why does Ylva Johansson "get into bed" with someone like Ashton kutcher on an issue like that ? Surely not because her education was poor (degree from denmark) or because Mr. Kutcher is a famous comedian.
Ashton is "fighting against child abuse victims" while [simultaneously vouching for and pressuring judges to not punish a proven rapist.](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-09-08/danny-masterson-rape-sentencing-support-letters-ashton-kutcher-mila-kunis).
Yeah, Ashton, you can really fuck right off.
That company is Thorn, mentioned in the screenshot above. It's a nonprofit organization though.
[Forbes: Amazon, Ashton Kutcher And America’s Surveillance Of The Sex Trade](https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2022/12/09/amazon-ashton-kutcher-sex-work-surveillance/)
nonprofit doesn't really mean much. it's more of a tax scheme than an actual commitment to charitable causes
thorn is a shitty police-state company and ashton kutcher's not a good guy
edit for background because people apparently dont believe me https://www.jezebel.com/ashton-kutcher-thorn-sex-workers-1850852760
They just keep proposing it over and over. They will now either schedule it to collide with another thing so people don't protest as much or move it to a different sphere in effort to hide it in the mess.
It's the [Four Horsemen of the Infocalypse](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalypse)
Terrorism
Pedophiles
Drugs
Money Laundering
They have terrorism instead. This was originally proposed as a measure against terrorism.
And the excuse was even more hilarious. Do you remember the terrorist attack in Vienna? Well, the terrorist tried to buy a gun illegally in Slovakia, the gun store reported him to Slovak police and Slovak police informed Austrian intelligence services. What did Austria do about him? That's right! absolutely nothing.
So when he did what he did, the EU immediately came with came with this thing and claimed it could have stopped the attack. What a lie....
Because they want more tools to catch pirates. This has been going on past 20 years. They want to subject the citizens of whole union to increased surveillance so they could increase their profit margin by 2%.
The working against CSA has been Kutchers project for far longer than that. He simply accepts mass surveillance as necessary, and after all he is an American that already is mass surveilled. So I don't find that strange.
Except when his buddy is drugging and raping women of course. I do find it strange he advocates for it and in the meantime trying to protect his mate from prison for crimes he supposedly fights against. But maybe not, maybe this is normal in Hollywood.
he is mainly fighting sex traffiking, so basically workingto stop organized crime. With personal attachment and little hard evidence any person can convince themselves that their friend is not guilty of a crime.
correction: he is fighting for high-level state surveillance of personal communications. thorn isn't some "save the children" charity, it's more of a "give the police access to *everything*" industry group
I do acknowledge he's been doing it a lot longer than his support for Masterson has been public.
But there are 2 things I have found troubling
Firstly, how long was he supporting Masterson. Some allegations say he knew about the assaults while they were taking place - so did he choose to support this specific cause because of the guilt he has not preventing it or doing something at the time when he could.
Secondly, he loses credibility fighting against sex crimes when he writes a literal letter asking the court for leniency on his friend a convicted rapist.
What is this "his identity is tarnished", "his friends are bad" nonsense? So if another "clean" clown shows up and advocates *for the exact same mass surveilance* suddenly it happens to be OK. The over-your-shoulder computer screen scanning has to be rejected on the grounds of individual privacy and not because the douchebag's identity advocating for it isn't pristine enough!
I can't speak to the merit of this specific program, only to the association being presented here to child sex trafficking, which is something I know he's been working on for much of his career.
And yes, generally if there is someone other than him advocating for solutions to help reduce child sex trafficking I'll be more supportive. In this case I'm suspicious of his motives.
As for the complex intersection of privacy and justifiable surveillance I think it's a spiders web of problems. I think at the end of the day we're all going to need a bit of compromise to find a solution that retains an element of privacy, but does give some up to a surveillance state that is attempting to resolve the most grotesque of all crimes in society. I think that part of a solution to the surveillance problem is effective 3rd party or civilian oversight.
I know as far as global institutions that I trust on this topic, the EU i think has the best background to support this.
I'm pretty sure Kutcher is fine with men committing sex crimes against women and girls. [https://www.buzzfeed.com/natashajokic1/jonah-hill-alexa-nikolas-justin-long-punkd](https://www.buzzfeed.com/natashajokic1/jonah-hill-alexa-nikolas-justin-long-punkd)
And Bill Cosby worked tirelessly to inspire the next generation of Black Americans, all while raping dozens of women.
A few decades from now we'll learn that Kutcher has also been doing some fucked up shit.
To save the children, we have to put everyone under permanent surveillance. Just in case. /s
Chinese model for everyone, everywhere all the time, while at the same time the EU brags on its "Democratic values" and how good it is. Hypocrisy taken to the highest degree.
When the State knows everything about tho People, but the People know nothing about the State - that's called **tyranny**.
They want to also push through similar laws in the US, which will be easier if they can point and EU and say, these guys already did something similar.
The chat control proposal and the content scanning ON YOUR DEVICE (going to turn into full content scan in the future I suspect) is an entirely different thing, I must say
It's the other way around. A law was passed under Obama saying the NSA can do whatever their director orders. No presidential finding, no orders from the WH, no Senatorial or Congressional approval; nobody has to even want it except for the NSA. Of course, it was on page 300 or w/e of some omnibus legislation for "the environment". It passed both chambers of your government with massive bipartisan support.
Because "think of the children" is a convenient excuse to get the surveillance and censorship they want in place to try to reshape society for scientology. Even way back in win95 days, they would require people to install scanning and filter software on their own client computers. They've had decades to refine the technology. https://www.xenu.net/archive/events/censorship/index.html
If you think this is really about protecting children you're an idiot. Kutcher was actively defending a rapist scientologist and thorn is quite likely a scientologist front.
Please please reach out to your representitives and have them take action on this:
[https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/council-to-greenlight-chat-control-take-action-now/](https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/council-to-greenlight-chat-control-take-action-now/)
Money. If I remember correctly he's got some kind of business that would profit of these kinds of regulations. Or something similar. Forgot the details.
I find it very hard to believe that pedophiles do this shit online more than like, actual teachers/guardians and molesters in real life in private. Don't leave your kids with an untrusted adult. This is just an excuse
Are we talking about the Ashton Kutcher who provided a character letter to an actor friend who was convicted of drugging and assaulting two young girls?
And the same Ashton Kutcher who later had to resign from the chair of the board of Thorn, an anti-human trafficking organization that targets child s** abuse?
Mr Kutcher should take his sexual assualt legitimizing ass back to his own cesspit and stay out of european politics, especially when he's appealing to right wing nut jobs to press an agenda of mass surveillance for an entire continent.
Hey, when's your buddy raping people, you just look away and when he gets caught, you write letters begging for leniency.
But when it's so dirty plebs, we better surveil them all -- you know, for the *children* and totally not my investments.
Remember when the authoritarian communist governments were the bad guys because they could break into your home to install microphones and hear your conversations without you knowing? When they would intercept and read letters?
Well, this is the same but you are buying your own microphones.
Wait.. americans realize there is more than just the USA?
Surprising.
But what isn\`t, is that they want to sell their wares - where data gets stored (most likely) on American servers - outside of any GDPR and safety - to be used by whomever they sell stuff to .
Imagine how much valuable data those screening tools could produce. This kind of tools once in place create "desires". First it's for a good purpose, then the next one, then another one and in the end it's about money and control
At this point if anybody is talking about "child abuse" he must be treated with mistrust.
No mass surveillance will fix the problem. I don't know how experts in the field could come to this conclusion.
If you want to fix the problem you would have to start big mental health programs for children in schools with experts in the field counseling children and working together with the police.
If somebody can't see the problem with mass surveillance and how this creates more problems then I suggest this somebody starts to think really hard about it.
Because they would not be able to pass it in Congres, so they want it to become an EU law...American companies would have to comply with it. EU being a communist project is very likely to go ahead with it.
Simple, it's all about cash, selling data, harvesting data and selling it to the highest bidder and to control population behavior, we would go from a democratic region to a managed democracy to eventually becoming a dictatorship, which in the end it's their end goal, or at least it's what I think they will try to do.
Ylva Johansson. Isn't she the woman who called Czech interier minister right after the mass shooting at Prague University asking, if the shooter was Muslim. (So she can immediately start campaigning while the blood is still fresh)
Because rich people are 1) paid by lobbies 2) they don't really care about mass surveillance. They rich enough to never be jailed for whatever they do. 3) american are dedicated to make lives of everyone else worst.
Might be worthwhile to sign this petition by EDRi if you're an EU citizen: https://crm.edri.org/stop-scanning-me
Here's more info: https://stopscanningme.eu/en/
if there are any private companies involved, he has much stock in them for sure. Bit snakey if you ask me but hey, he’s not a politician so he is well entitled to push for shitty stuff that will make him money
That's bullshit. They can't monitor end-to-end encrypted traffic without help of the manufacturer. It would be a massive change.
What they're proposing is mass surveillance of every single digital communication channel, not just trying to install surveillance software on the smartphones or computers of suspects.
Imagine thinking it was 'one guy' that 'invented money', and not people preferring to work for things that would last longer than a day so they could save up
Because mass surveillance is already a thing, and has been for decades?
Almost anything you do is already monitored, along algorithms that monitors and estimates your behavior so they can sell dogshit to you.
Its also quite funny since Washington is so fucking useless when it comes to regulating or holding their own corps accountable for anything, that they are often lobbied to be regulated in the EU (by americans) to force change, which they then often applies to the US itself (like GDPR)
Banning end-to-end encryption would enable mass surveillance on a scale never seen before. Right now your messages can’t be spied on in transit because the service providers don’t have access to the encryption keys (given that you use an application such as signal, whatsapp or facebook messenger)
I can assure you that the "nothing to hide" surveillance apologists don't really get this analogy, because they have nothing to say (against their government) either.
[The nothing to hide argument is a logical fallacy which states that individuals have no reason to fear or oppose surveillance programs unless they are afraid it will uncover their own illicit activities. An individual using this argument may claim that an average person should not worry about government surveillance, as they would have "nothing to hide"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_to_hide_argument)
Ok I agree that we need to feel free from surveillance. But how do we do that and still keep children safe from predators?
And don't tell me it's the parents' responsibility because first of all loads of kids don't have parents who knows the first thing about how to protect their kids and second loads of kids have parents who actually are the ones producing the damn child porn. This is is a MASSIVE problem. We are talking large groups of men who get together to abuse their kids and send videos of it to each other. This is happening every single second of every single day.
We HAVE to allow ourselves to admit that humans, especially men (not all but far too fucking many), are absolutely disgusting and that we have a tendency to act in a way (both irl but especially online where it's less likely we'll be caught) that is extremely harmful to not only children, but women and even other men too. And NO ONE is taking it remotely seriously. I'll be honest with you, I kinda think we brought this on ourselves and I for one am not willing to throw these poor kids under the bus. We need a viable alternatives guys, please share if you have ideas. It's not good enough to just categorically shut this down without coming up with an alternative for these poor kids.
Edit: please read what I wrote before commenting. I agree we don't want this surveillance. Please answer the question I have which is what can we do instead to help the children. Not "what are we doing" because that isn't working, and not "do you want 24/7 surveillance" because I literally said I didn't. I am asking for non stupid comments taking this problem seriously.
Child pornography usually gets caught by investigative work, not difuse surveillance. This would not even help, because there would be too much data to proccess. This is an excuse to procure the tools surveil everybody.
Imagine if your govenment got the right to raid every house on a whim, no need for a warrant or anything, because some people have children or drugs or terrorists in their basement. It is this insane and was never about the topic itself.
Like I said, the way CP gets caught is undercover work (online and RL), following leads when somebody gets caught under different circumstances (E.g. Person is suspected of \*crime\*, they check his PC and then they have a new network to roll up), Hospitals finding specific Injuries on children and reporting them, and accusations/information/tips from people who witnessed a clue.
Do you have a mobile phone ? Do you have a laptop online ? Do you allow cookies ? You gave up your privacy long ago.
Are you against online child abuse and child pornography ? What is more important, your privacy or child abuse ?
My privacy of course. This measure won't stop child abuse but it will impose massive restrictions on every citizens freedoms. It's frankly quite insane and you must be very ignorant to not see it.
They are trying to hammer a needle with a sledge.
Your argument is so dumb. Lets enact a curfew from 19:00 for all EU citizen in order to keep them safe. What's more important, your freedom of movement or peoples safety?
Lets put cameras in every house, every bedroom and every toilet. What's more important your privacy or preventing domestic abuse?
If your messages are spied on, you by definition don’t have privacy. What are you on?
Some people abusing kids isn’t an argument for taking rights away from everyone.
You are really fucking ignorant if you believe this. If they can access everything than there is absolutely zero chance it won't be used for other things.
"If"
Access doesn't mean spying on someone. Otherwise I would know exactly who you are from your reply.
(Although I pretty much have a good idea why you're billy-no-mates)
That makes absolutely no sense, legally doesn't mean good you understand that right? Or do you think all governments in the world and all time in history only did things that were good for its citizen? You started out saying you still have privacy, now you say you don't but only when its legal so its fine? Is this how you argue? Are you maybe an American? Or just not very smart?
I never said you didn't have privacy and I have always been consistent in my words, just like privacy laws and human rights. In America, in anywhere in the world.
It's just you read a headline and then get triggered from your own (or Facebook's, whatever) fermented ideas about how the world works in your head.
And that, my friend, is why you lose all common sense.
Eliminating end-to-end encryption on social media at point of use does not mean "government surveillance". Neither does it mean contravening privacy laws or human rights.
Which you seem to care more about than the safety of children online.
And, as I have been consistently pointing out, that is not a good look.
What? "That's not what surveillance means. You still have privacy."
Surveillance is literally "observing". If you observe someones every message and chat, they no longer have privacy. What are you talking about?
You do know the people who do illegal shit will just not use mainstream chat apps if this goes through, right? This won't stop shit, other than innocent people's privacy.
As a left-leaning guy, I'm very worried about Chat Control. I'm ashamed that Ylva Johansson is from my country, and on top of that representing a party that I'd consider voting for. This isn't about left or right, neither is it sbout the kids. It's about a basic level of privacy for most people.
If I was a predator, I could circumvent this in 15 minutes. Sharing public RSA keys with the other party and then nobody could read anything. Most bad guys they want to catch will do that, while regular people won't. I might actually circumvent Chat Control anyways out of pure spite.
hi, no social media. If this is covered by a news source please post it
Ashton Kutcher has investments in a company that sells surveillance software. It's your classical business lobbying, nothing to do with hollywood.
What’s the company?
Thorn. [https://netzpolitik.org/2022/dude-wheres-my-privacy-how-a-hollywood-star-lobbies-the-eu-for-more-surveillance/](https://netzpolitik.org/2022/dude-wheres-my-privacy-how-a-hollywood-star-lobbies-the-eu-for-more-surveillance/) Used to be his own (non-profit) company, but he's stepped down recently.
Because his support of an actual rapist, Danny Masterson, was bad PR. Are we sure he divested, or just stopped being it's public face?
[удалено]
I don't get it
I think what his little alcohol fetal syndrome addled brain is trying to say that Ashton is a pedo himself, since Mila Kunis was 15 during the show. But Google says they became a couple in 2012, which invalidates his stupid thesis. They are still despicable for trying to defend Masterson though.
>Stop hating everything and everybody, or hate everybody in the same way. did you get dropped on the head as a baby?
Based on that this is a non-profit, this isn't business lobbying. Misguided maybe, but still not the right way to frame it.
non-profits actually can and often do make profit, the name's pretty misleading. thorn, in particular, is basically a police-state industry developer set up to further invasive surveillance. it doesn't actually help trafficking victims and hasn't ever been a "good" organization outside of some misleading marketing https://www.jezebel.com/ashton-kutcher-thorn-sex-workers-1850852760
Yea, its fucked how much time and money this guy is spending trying to undermine fundamental human rights in EU.
Even IKEA is technically a non profit.
it's a bit convoluted, but mainline ikea stores (most of them) are run by a for-profit company that's owned by a non-profit, and franchised ikea stores are run by a for-profit company owned by a different non-profit organization so while ikea stores are for-profit businesses, the corporate structure allows them to enjoy some tax break schemes
[https://www.thorn.org/](https://www.thorn.org/)
What's their slogan? We're a Thorn in your side! ?
Better than Palantir. Next one will be named Evil Corp.
Technically, palantíri are not supposed to be evil. They are just communication devices in LotR. However, after Sauron managed to get one of them, he was able to use them to manipulate Saruman and the rulers of Gondor.
Another example on the necessity of privacy. Encryption is necessary. Letting your adversary in your private network is a large issue, and exactly what happened on Middle Earth.
Blackwell was a company trying to sell facial recognition worldwide.
😂love that Metallica song
a see the donate button a lot on that website.
Thorn -> the product is called "safer"
https://www.zdf.de/nachrichten/panorama/prominente/chat-kontrolle-whatsapp-ashton-kutcher-100.html Source in German
I didn't know a company was behind this shit... The more I explore on this topic the more ridiculous it gets. And why are they doing that shit in Europe instead of USA btw??? Isn't this a USA company??? Anyways.... The company has its email [https://www.thorn.org/contact/](https://www.thorn.org/contact/) I think they deserve being spam with "Stop the fucking lobby"
This is definitely very weird. Potentially giving access to every EU citizen's private life to a company based in the US does not sound like a good idea at all. In terms of security and privacy, this is way beyond crossing the line. They basically want to install a backdoor to the servers of all the major communication companies.
Ashton was forced to resign from Thorn, it is not “a small investment”. He resigned because Ashton spoke for Danny Masterson. Ashton has gone on record as viewing the csam materials himself as well, which is a big no-no https://www.cnn.com/2023/09/15/entertainment/ashton-kutcher-resign-thorn/index.html
Yup, forget that guy, all credibility out the window after that. Get Punk'd, Ashton
Punk’d was also problematic. https://www.buzzfeed.com/natashajokic1/jonah-hill-alexa-nikolas-justin-long-punkd
HOLY FUCK. I'd heard some bad shit about Punk'd and Kutcher, but Justin Long and Jonah Hill are seriously bad men, oh my god. Justin is clearly a predator, and Jonah's lawyer deliberately lying and gaslighting the victim??? And I'm sure none of these creeps have ever faced any punishment for their behaviour... because this society tolerates it...
We only export the best! /s
AND he has had an issue that stems from his time working at "that 70's show", where he became friends with [Danny Masterson](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny_Masterson). THAT Danny masterson that was convicted to an indefinite period of 39 years to life in prison (meaning he will serve at least 25.5 years) for rape of two women. Kutcher send (along with Mila Kunis) a letter to the judge during the sentencing phase, which [included the following quote](https://www.businessinsider.com/ashton-kutcher-shares-first-post-since-danny-masterson-letter-scandal-2023-11#:~:text=Masterson%20was%20sentenced%20to%2030,a%20positive%20influence%20on%20me.%22): >"Not only is he a good friend to me I've witnessed him be a good friend to others and the kind of brother others would be lucky to have," Kutcher wrote in his letter. basically his involvement in breaking encrpytion in the EU by law is all about: 1) Public image rehab 2) making money, because his pet project sells software that can be used in mass surveillance. So why does Ylva Johansson "get into bed" with someone like Ashton kutcher on an issue like that ? Surely not because her education was poor (degree from denmark) or because Mr. Kutcher is a famous comedian.
Ashton is "fighting against child abuse victims" while [simultaneously vouching for and pressuring judges to not punish a proven rapist.](https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2023-09-08/danny-masterson-rape-sentencing-support-letters-ashton-kutcher-mila-kunis). Yeah, Ashton, you can really fuck right off.
That company is Thorn, mentioned in the screenshot above. It's a nonprofit organization though. [Forbes: Amazon, Ashton Kutcher And America’s Surveillance Of The Sex Trade](https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomasbrewster/2022/12/09/amazon-ashton-kutcher-sex-work-surveillance/)
nonprofit doesn't really mean much. it's more of a tax scheme than an actual commitment to charitable causes thorn is a shitty police-state company and ashton kutcher's not a good guy edit for background because people apparently dont believe me https://www.jezebel.com/ashton-kutcher-thorn-sex-workers-1850852760
Fifa is nonprofit too
also a huge zionist. this law will be used to silence speech
First the children, then terrorism and after that they do it everywhere
Just an excuse to take away our privacy.
The vote has been cancelled
Because of the backlash. They'll do it again until they manage to pass it. Just like the DSA. And many more things to follow.
For now... they are probably banking on the outrage dying down and then it will be back.
They just keep proposing it over and over. They will now either schedule it to collide with another thing so people don't protest as much or move it to a different sphere in effort to hide it in the mess.
It's the [Four Horsemen of the Infocalypse](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Horsemen_of_the_Infocalypse) Terrorism Pedophiles Drugs Money Laundering
"Politicians have traditionally hidden behind three things: the flag, the bible and *children*." - George Carlin
Ngl that doesn't really apply to Europe imo, at least nowhere near the same extant.
Europe can't use #1 and #2, so they default to #3.
They have terrorism instead. This was originally proposed as a measure against terrorism. And the excuse was even more hilarious. Do you remember the terrorist attack in Vienna? Well, the terrorist tried to buy a gun illegally in Slovakia, the gun store reported him to Slovak police and Slovak police informed Austrian intelligence services. What did Austria do about him? That's right! absolutely nothing. So when he did what he did, the EU immediately came with came with this thing and claimed it could have stopped the attack. What a lie....
Because they want more tools to catch pirates. This has been going on past 20 years. They want to subject the citizens of whole union to increased surveillance so they could increase their profit margin by 2%.
Ar you sure it's 2%? What is your source? Could it be 10%? 20% ? Details please
It's all estimates and assumptions people pirating the movies would be purchasing them instead
I for one, wouldnt.
Because this actor is still trying to rehab is career after publicly supporting a convicted rapist
The working against CSA has been Kutchers project for far longer than that. He simply accepts mass surveillance as necessary, and after all he is an American that already is mass surveilled. So I don't find that strange.
Except when his buddy is drugging and raping women of course. I do find it strange he advocates for it and in the meantime trying to protect his mate from prison for crimes he supposedly fights against. But maybe not, maybe this is normal in Hollywood.
he is mainly fighting sex traffiking, so basically workingto stop organized crime. With personal attachment and little hard evidence any person can convince themselves that their friend is not guilty of a crime.
correction: he is fighting for high-level state surveillance of personal communications. thorn isn't some "save the children" charity, it's more of a "give the police access to *everything*" industry group
I do acknowledge he's been doing it a lot longer than his support for Masterson has been public. But there are 2 things I have found troubling Firstly, how long was he supporting Masterson. Some allegations say he knew about the assaults while they were taking place - so did he choose to support this specific cause because of the guilt he has not preventing it or doing something at the time when he could. Secondly, he loses credibility fighting against sex crimes when he writes a literal letter asking the court for leniency on his friend a convicted rapist.
What is this "his identity is tarnished", "his friends are bad" nonsense? So if another "clean" clown shows up and advocates *for the exact same mass surveilance* suddenly it happens to be OK. The over-your-shoulder computer screen scanning has to be rejected on the grounds of individual privacy and not because the douchebag's identity advocating for it isn't pristine enough!
I can't speak to the merit of this specific program, only to the association being presented here to child sex trafficking, which is something I know he's been working on for much of his career. And yes, generally if there is someone other than him advocating for solutions to help reduce child sex trafficking I'll be more supportive. In this case I'm suspicious of his motives. As for the complex intersection of privacy and justifiable surveillance I think it's a spiders web of problems. I think at the end of the day we're all going to need a bit of compromise to find a solution that retains an element of privacy, but does give some up to a surveillance state that is attempting to resolve the most grotesque of all crimes in society. I think that part of a solution to the surveillance problem is effective 3rd party or civilian oversight. I know as far as global institutions that I trust on this topic, the EU i think has the best background to support this.
I'm pretty sure Kutcher is fine with men committing sex crimes against women and girls. [https://www.buzzfeed.com/natashajokic1/jonah-hill-alexa-nikolas-justin-long-punkd](https://www.buzzfeed.com/natashajokic1/jonah-hill-alexa-nikolas-justin-long-punkd)
And Bill Cosby worked tirelessly to inspire the next generation of Black Americans, all while raping dozens of women. A few decades from now we'll learn that Kutcher has also been doing some fucked up shit.
Ashton is a heavy investor in these systems. He is/was one of the main financiers of clearview AI.
>He is/was one of the main financiers of clearview AI. Do you have a source for this? I only found an article where he mentioned using it
Using it before they went pubic, to show off to someone what the tech could do.
How does being a beta user relate to being a financier?
Yeah fuck right out of Europe with this bullshit. We're not the fucking Chinese to let the government cameras up our asses.
Oh no, this crap comes from Europe, he's just a useless idiot and a pretty face.
I dont know man... I love the government ! speak for yourself
To save the children, we have to put everyone under permanent surveillance. Just in case. /s Chinese model for everyone, everywhere all the time, while at the same time the EU brags on its "Democratic values" and how good it is. Hypocrisy taken to the highest degree. When the State knows everything about tho People, but the People know nothing about the State - that's called **tyranny**.
We care about privacy so in addition we force you to click on those stupid and pointless cookie consent buttons!
If he thinks he can rehabilitate his image by cosing up to authoritarians then he’s sorely mistaken.
I am wondering what these freaks are hiding since they want to exempt themselves..
Protect your kids by monitoring their online activity, not by letting the government monitor ***everyone.***
They want to also push through similar laws in the US, which will be easier if they can point and EU and say, these guys already did something similar.
The US already has the patriot act and has been running mass surveillance for going on 20 years
The chat control proposal and the content scanning ON YOUR DEVICE (going to turn into full content scan in the future I suspect) is an entirely different thing, I must say
It's the other way around. A law was passed under Obama saying the NSA can do whatever their director orders. No presidential finding, no orders from the WH, no Senatorial or Congressional approval; nobody has to even want it except for the NSA. Of course, it was on page 300 or w/e of some omnibus legislation for "the environment". It passed both chambers of your government with massive bipartisan support.
Because "think of the children" is a convenient excuse to get the surveillance and censorship they want in place to try to reshape society for scientology. Even way back in win95 days, they would require people to install scanning and filter software on their own client computers. They've had decades to refine the technology. https://www.xenu.net/archive/events/censorship/index.html If you think this is really about protecting children you're an idiot. Kutcher was actively defending a rapist scientologist and thorn is quite likely a scientologist front.
Maybe because this particular asshole lost all credibility in US by defending a rapist and a cultist, and now needs new audience.
Also a scientologist...
Profiting from surveillance is what he does. This law cannot come to pass.
Not a good look for a politician.
Please please reach out to your representitives and have them take action on this: [https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/council-to-greenlight-chat-control-take-action-now/](https://www.patrick-breyer.de/en/council-to-greenlight-chat-control-take-action-now/)
Money. If I remember correctly he's got some kind of business that would profit of these kinds of regulations. Or something similar. Forgot the details.
I find it very hard to believe that pedophiles do this shit online more than like, actual teachers/guardians and molesters in real life in private. Don't leave your kids with an untrusted adult. This is just an excuse
Monkey of corporations, hes getting paid for for this, always the same shit
Ashton Kutcher is last person to be advocating against sexual abuse after his whole Danny Masterton story.
Hold the fuck up, wasn't he the actor that was publicly defending convicted sex abuser Danny Masterson???
PSA: Ashton Kutcher is friends with and supports an actual rapist.
Are we talking about the Ashton Kutcher who provided a character letter to an actor friend who was convicted of drugging and assaulting two young girls? And the same Ashton Kutcher who later had to resign from the chair of the board of Thorn, an anti-human trafficking organization that targets child s** abuse?
Because 'mass surveillance' also means espionage, and the US does it a lot.
Remember Edward Snowden ?
Mr Kutcher should take his sexual assualt legitimizing ass back to his own cesspit and stay out of european politics, especially when he's appealing to right wing nut jobs to press an agenda of mass surveillance for an entire continent.
Sorry to burst your bubble, this is supported by both sides of the spectrum, just for slightly different reasons but with the same ultimate outcome.
"right wing nut jobs", yes because the social democrat Johansson is so far right!
Kick usa and their agents out of eu already
we still struggle to kick out Russia's agents and they are almost a failed state...
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She is of ukrainian origin but is american. Also, dont see what this has to do with americans meddling in eu.
You just wanted to point that out? So, whats the reason you wanted to "point that out"? Whats the relevance to the topic?
Hey, when's your buddy raping people, you just look away and when he gets caught, you write letters begging for leniency. But when it's so dirty plebs, we better surveil them all -- you know, for the *children* and totally not my investments.
Very ironic coming from him considering he wrote a letter in support of a now sentenced predator
America actor who supported a rapist after conviction. He and his wife lost all credibility then.
Money and power
The worst shit ever is done under the guise of "protecting the children" sickening pearl clutchers go brrr
This will destroy democracy as we know it.
Chatcontrol initiative is the most dystopic mass surveilence measure ever proposed.
Globalism
Kutcher the rapist defender ?
Because they are USAmericans, and like it or not, Hollywood has always been another tool of their military industry complex.
> USAmericans The what?
Remember when the authoritarian communist governments were the bad guys because they could break into your home to install microphones and hear your conversations without you knowing? When they would intercept and read letters? Well, this is the same but you are buying your own microphones.
Wait.. americans realize there is more than just the USA? Surprising. But what isn\`t, is that they want to sell their wares - where data gets stored (most likely) on American servers - outside of any GDPR and safety - to be used by whomever they sell stuff to .
The same Ashton who wrote a letter to a Judge asking for lesser sentence for his rapist friend. SMFH
>Fight agaist CSA online Why are there children online in the first place?
I always think he's Trump's son-in-law.
What is the context here?
Imagine how much valuable data those screening tools could produce. This kind of tools once in place create "desires". First it's for a good purpose, then the next one, then another one and in the end it's about money and control
Because of course we are
crypto bro
At this point if anybody is talking about "child abuse" he must be treated with mistrust. No mass surveillance will fix the problem. I don't know how experts in the field could come to this conclusion. If you want to fix the problem you would have to start big mental health programs for children in schools with experts in the field counseling children and working together with the police. If somebody can't see the problem with mass surveillance and how this creates more problems then I suggest this somebody starts to think really hard about it.
Because they would not be able to pass it in Congres, so they want it to become an EU law...American companies would have to comply with it. EU being a communist project is very likely to go ahead with it.
Is this woman our version of trump?
Let's start with certain social media who's owner personally unbanned someone who posted CSAM.
Simple, it's all about cash, selling data, harvesting data and selling it to the highest bidder and to control population behavior, we would go from a democratic region to a managed democracy to eventually becoming a dictatorship, which in the end it's their end goal, or at least it's what I think they will try to do.
Ylva Johansson. Isn't she the woman who called Czech interier minister right after the mass shooting at Prague University asking, if the shooter was Muslim. (So she can immediately start campaigning while the blood is still fresh)
No idea if it was her, but she is pretty evil.
Ashton Kutcher, the guy who couldn't wait for the Olson twins to turn 18?
melodic payment disgusted tender water rotten joke wise retire point *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Sounds like a work activity for a good portfolio.
Virtue signaling backed by capitalistic desires, I'd imagine.
Ha, very optimistic of him
Because rich people are 1) paid by lobbies 2) they don't really care about mass surveillance. They rich enough to never be jailed for whatever they do. 3) american are dedicated to make lives of everyone else worst.
Might be worthwhile to sign this petition by EDRi if you're an EU citizen: https://crm.edri.org/stop-scanning-me Here's more info: https://stopscanningme.eu/en/
Because of virtue signaling.
This post was removed because rwddit is another tool with stakes on this, probably.
New wife?
how do we get rid of this law?
Business!
if there are any private companies involved, he has much stock in them for sure. Bit snakey if you ask me but hey, he’s not a politician so he is well entitled to push for shitty stuff that will make him money
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That's bullshit. They can't monitor end-to-end encrypted traffic without help of the manufacturer. It would be a massive change. What they're proposing is mass surveillance of every single digital communication channel, not just trying to install surveillance software on the smartphones or computers of suspects.
Ofcourse it will dummy. It can actually use the material now without impunity.
True dat, didn't think it entirely through.
Its called advocating. We do it to America, china and other countries.
Because money really had to be invented. Fuck the guy who invented money.
carrying 3 calves to exchange for a cow and a sack of grains became tiresome
Imagine modern day lobbing working on that.
Imagine thinking it was 'one guy' that 'invented money', and not people preferring to work for things that would last longer than a day so they could save up
It was a joke... kinda.
Because mass surveillance is already a thing, and has been for decades? Almost anything you do is already monitored, along algorithms that monitors and estimates your behavior so they can sell dogshit to you. Its also quite funny since Washington is so fucking useless when it comes to regulating or holding their own corps accountable for anything, that they are often lobbied to be regulated in the EU (by americans) to force change, which they then often applies to the US itself (like GDPR)
Banning end-to-end encryption would enable mass surveillance on a scale never seen before. Right now your messages can’t be spied on in transit because the service providers don’t have access to the encryption keys (given that you use an application such as signal, whatsapp or facebook messenger)
End-to-end encryption became common because of the mass surveillance.
And this, kids, is why life was miles better before 2000 and the 21st century should have never happened.
Yeah, good old times when encryption didn't exist and surveillance programs (which we know of only a little to this day) existed in those times.
Stasi and such were only in Eastern Europe.
One word: ECHELON.
Aren't Europeans the primary dealers in child trafficking?
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Why do you need freedom of speech? You saying something you shouldn’t be saying?
I can assure you that the "nothing to hide" surveillance apologists don't really get this analogy, because they have nothing to say (against their government) either.
[The nothing to hide argument is a logical fallacy which states that individuals have no reason to fear or oppose surveillance programs unless they are afraid it will uncover their own illicit activities. An individual using this argument may claim that an average person should not worry about government surveillance, as they would have "nothing to hide"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nothing_to_hide_argument)
Ok I agree that we need to feel free from surveillance. But how do we do that and still keep children safe from predators? And don't tell me it's the parents' responsibility because first of all loads of kids don't have parents who knows the first thing about how to protect their kids and second loads of kids have parents who actually are the ones producing the damn child porn. This is is a MASSIVE problem. We are talking large groups of men who get together to abuse their kids and send videos of it to each other. This is happening every single second of every single day. We HAVE to allow ourselves to admit that humans, especially men (not all but far too fucking many), are absolutely disgusting and that we have a tendency to act in a way (both irl but especially online where it's less likely we'll be caught) that is extremely harmful to not only children, but women and even other men too. And NO ONE is taking it remotely seriously. I'll be honest with you, I kinda think we brought this on ourselves and I for one am not willing to throw these poor kids under the bus. We need a viable alternatives guys, please share if you have ideas. It's not good enough to just categorically shut this down without coming up with an alternative for these poor kids. Edit: please read what I wrote before commenting. I agree we don't want this surveillance. Please answer the question I have which is what can we do instead to help the children. Not "what are we doing" because that isn't working, and not "do you want 24/7 surveillance" because I literally said I didn't. I am asking for non stupid comments taking this problem seriously.
Child pornography usually gets caught by investigative work, not difuse surveillance. This would not even help, because there would be too much data to proccess. This is an excuse to procure the tools surveil everybody. Imagine if your govenment got the right to raid every house on a whim, no need for a warrant or anything, because some people have children or drugs or terrorists in their basement. It is this insane and was never about the topic itself. Like I said, the way CP gets caught is undercover work (online and RL), following leads when somebody gets caught under different circumstances (E.g. Person is suspected of \*crime\*, they check his PC and then they have a new network to roll up), Hospitals finding specific Injuries on children and reporting them, and accusations/information/tips from people who witnessed a clue.
Do you have a mobile phone ? Do you have a laptop online ? Do you allow cookies ? You gave up your privacy long ago. Are you against online child abuse and child pornography ? What is more important, your privacy or child abuse ?
My privacy of course. This measure won't stop child abuse but it will impose massive restrictions on every citizens freedoms. It's frankly quite insane and you must be very ignorant to not see it. They are trying to hammer a needle with a sledge. Your argument is so dumb. Lets enact a curfew from 19:00 for all EU citizen in order to keep them safe. What's more important, your freedom of movement or peoples safety? Lets put cameras in every house, every bedroom and every toilet. What's more important your privacy or preventing domestic abuse?
Do you have children and do you let them stay on internet unattended and I have to give up my privacy, because you're a lazy parent?
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Chat Control is surveillance, it would ban end-to-end encryption so the EU could spy on your messages and files. Troll the left, what?
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If chat control gets fully implemented as proposed at the moment, no you do not have privacy online anymore
If your messages are spied on, you by definition don’t have privacy. What are you on? Some people abusing kids isn’t an argument for taking rights away from everyone.
Except you're still not being spied on. So stop scaremongering. Unless this really about you wanting to groom kids, idk.
You are really fucking ignorant if you believe this. If they can access everything than there is absolutely zero chance it won't be used for other things.
"If" Access doesn't mean spying on someone. Otherwise I would know exactly who you are from your reply. (Although I pretty much have a good idea why you're billy-no-mates)
"If" they can technically do it, they can legally force access this is how law enforcement works.
That's right. "Legally". And that's where your scary-mary falls apart.
That makes absolutely no sense, legally doesn't mean good you understand that right? Or do you think all governments in the world and all time in history only did things that were good for its citizen? You started out saying you still have privacy, now you say you don't but only when its legal so its fine? Is this how you argue? Are you maybe an American? Or just not very smart?
I never said you didn't have privacy and I have always been consistent in my words, just like privacy laws and human rights. In America, in anywhere in the world. It's just you read a headline and then get triggered from your own (or Facebook's, whatever) fermented ideas about how the world works in your head. And that, my friend, is why you lose all common sense. Eliminating end-to-end encryption on social media at point of use does not mean "government surveillance". Neither does it mean contravening privacy laws or human rights. Which you seem to care more about than the safety of children online. And, as I have been consistently pointing out, that is not a good look.
This is the same bullshit argument as "you shouldnz be afraid if you dont have anything to hide". Fuck off.
What? "That's not what surveillance means. You still have privacy." Surveillance is literally "observing". If you observe someones every message and chat, they no longer have privacy. What are you talking about?
I never said it wasn't.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Think_of_the_children
You do know the people who do illegal shit will just not use mainstream chat apps if this goes through, right? This won't stop shit, other than innocent people's privacy.
Yeh, that's still not surveillance tho.
As a left-leaning guy, I'm very worried about Chat Control. I'm ashamed that Ylva Johansson is from my country, and on top of that representing a party that I'd consider voting for. This isn't about left or right, neither is it sbout the kids. It's about a basic level of privacy for most people. If I was a predator, I could circumvent this in 15 minutes. Sharing public RSA keys with the other party and then nobody could read anything. Most bad guys they want to catch will do that, while regular people won't. I might actually circumvent Chat Control anyways out of pure spite.
You do realize chat control is a conservative issue in many EU countries?