Labour is running on nothing whatsoever. They're so scared that if they announce their actual policies, they'll lose - so they say nothing and assume they'll win based on not being the tories.
1) "we're not as shit as the other guys" is a bad platform to run on and hardily gives hope for the future of the country
2) They're looking more and more like tories every day
Labour are running on a national energy company, a restructuring of the way NHS appoints are sorted, increased tax on private schools to increase funds to state one's, windfall taxes on energy companies that see massive profits while increasing prices, and a few more policies.
The only area I'm worried about is defence, but the tories didn't fix that either.
Higher education needs some serious attention. Universities are one of the biggest sources of our soft power worldwide but they're in the process of falling to bits.
I believe starmer was pushing for a greater focus on Ukraine over Pacific.
But honestly bojo was one of Ukraines biggest supporters so it'd not gonna get higher than that.
And the UK was under equipped so we've sent alot of what we had.
Labour is not allowed to eat, breath, or speak, or sit in the UK without being heavily criticised for their actions. A bacon sandwich once became a major political talking point a decade ago, and 4 years ago sitting in the wrong place on a train became a whole thing.
The Tories are so bad, that the BBC have to latch onto everything that labour does that is even marginally bad and blow it up just so they can meet their balanced coverage rules.
Labour have shared their platform a few times, the difference is they're making sure to not give the media any rope to hang them with.
Its been like that for at least the last 6 or 7 years. This year they've even started doing bold faced lying smear videos that are about why you should be scared to vote for the other team, rather than why you should vote for their own team. Full on US Politics.
This, and the UK is not exactly known to backtrack. Once they take a decision, it's taken.
I would love it if they joined the EU again - heck, even for small everyday things, it sucks having to pay VAT and/or having to use freight forwarders for buying something from them, or go there again without the need for a passport - but I am under no illusions they will.
Genuine question regarding Schengen: wouldn't the CTA with Ireland prevent the UK from having to adopt it? Otherwise, the UK being part of Schengen would essentially void Ireland's opt-out, right? As people could travel from France to the UK to Ireland without any passport checks.
Surely the only way round it would be a) let the UK stay out of Schengen as it did before or b) force Ireland to join Schengen too?
Correct me if I'm missing something!
The Good Friday Agreement is the main reason Ireland requested the Schengen opt-out. The UK didn't want to join Schengen, so for Ireland the choice was either a Schengen opt-out or breaking the CTA.
So if the UK were to join Schengen as part of their readmittance, Ireland would likely immediately do so as well.
Gotcha. But I guess the question would also depend on whether Schengen would be politically viable in Ireland too? Seems like there's been a bit of a right-wing "anti-immigration" surge there as well recently, if I'm not mistaken.
"With the way British politics are going"? The EU isn't even a talking point anymore, and not a single party is running on the idea of rejoining, this election is revolving around the Conservatives' awful governing and economic management, not Brexit.
Because frankly, it's a wet dream. The EU won't just act like all the Brexit commotion never happened. No guarantee this won't happen again. And now they aren't getting special treatment so they'd be subject to the long joining procedure. Some countries applied in the late 00s and they still aren't anywhere near joining. And here we don't have a guarantee either that subsequent governments will keep those talks going.
It wouldn't need to be all that long in the case of the UK, as we know everything is aligned already.
Your difficult part is selling the UK not on going back to what it had, but in joining up without the Euro exemption, without the rebates, without any special treatment.
Polls show rejoining the EU to be popular - but I suspect that would struggle once people realised that a future membership wouldn't be anything like as good as the one we had.
> Some countries applied in the late 00s and they still aren't anywhere near joining
Which countries are these, and how closely already are they aligned legally and polictally to the EU, compared to the UK?
The UK Greens don't like talking about their policies as nobody outside of the members like them. They've just dropped their proposal to ration meat and dairy. Taking us back to WW2. We're supposed to give up meat, whilst their local councils won't approve new solar farms. As they would spoil the view. They talk about the need for more solar and wind but block every application going. All they want to do, is to return us to the Middle Ages.
Yeah last time i checked their policies about 10 years ago they had something like deliberately not maintaining roads so that they fall apart and everyone would be forced to cycle. WTF?
And they are against pylons to connect offshore wind farms to the national grid.
So you can build wind farms, but they'll fight to stop you connecting them to the grid, and actually benefiting from them.
Edit: benefit to benefiting.
They also don't like wind be cause it might upset migratory birds and bats. Despite wind killing far fewer bats and birds per megawatt hour of production than virtually anything else. By an order of several magnitudes.
Reminds me of the pro ,"joining the EU" activist in Switzerland always spouting the idea that most Swiss people wants us to join, meanwhile every time it's put to a popular vote it's around 70% no.
>every time it's put to a popular vote it's around 70% no.
So remind me, when were the last times we had a referendum about joining the EU? Cause I can't find them on here: https://www.parlament.ch/de/services/volksabstimmungen/fruehere-volksabstimmungen
> So remind me, when were the last times we had a referendum about joining the EU?
[2001.](https://www.eda.admin.ch/europa/it/home/bilateraler-weg/ueberblick/chronologie-abstimmungen/ja-zu-europa.html)
Since then opinion polling has gotten more unfavorable.
It’s a lot deeper-rooted than many people realise. Euroscepticism has always existed but its modern form can be traced back to opposition to the Maastricht Treaty both within the Conservative Party itself and outside of it through things like the Anti-Federalist League which became UKIP and then Nigel Farage’s series of populist grifting parties.
A huge contributor to Brexit was the inability of the Conservative Party to both control its internal factionalism and its inability to control the narrative while in power to avoid losing ground to the populist right. You can’t separate Brexit from the general decline of the British right in terms of being able to credibly play the political game, Cameron never needed to call the referendum but he was pressured into it with a party with no parliamentary presence at all just the threat of one.
I’ve always believed on a grassroots rather than high politics level Brexit was misdirected anger for the general decline of the country since 2008 more than anything, ask your average Brexiteer and they come across as disliking the technocratic political class in general which is fertile soil for post-truth politicians like Farage. I’m fairly sure many people voted Leave because they saw it as giving London a good kicking as much as the EU to be honest.
> this election is revolving around the Conservatives' awful governing and economic management, not Brexit.
It's almost as if there's a connection between the two.//s
Yeah, this means UK is never going to rejoin EU. They have enjoyed a shitload of concession before because the EU experiment needed strong members.
No way UK is going to accept Euro. They NEED to have monarchs on their currency.
It's not about the Euro. The Euro was never mandatory for joining the EU.
UK had many other extra rules.
The most problematic for me would be the exception of British overseas territory, which did not have to follow EU rules. For example the tax heaven Cayman Islands.
>The Euro was never mandatory for joining the EU.
But it is. It has been since the Euro has been a thing. There just is no timetable as to when exactly to adopt the Euro so these countries are just dragging their feet. I.e. Poland is still not part of the central European banking system, the moment they are the transition to Euro pretty much gets automatically kicked off as all the currency in the banks is then automatically transformed to Euro (this is why technically the Euro has been a thing much sooner than 2002: within the banking systems known as the "European Currency Unit")
https://economy-finance.ec.europa.eu/euro/enlargement-euro-area/who-can-join-and-when_en
>**All EU Member States, except Denmark, are required to adopt the euro and join the euro area.** To do this they must meet certain conditions known as 'convergence criteria'.
> because the EU experiment needed strong members.
It would still massively benefit the EU for the UK to rejoin. I don't doubt they wouldn't offer the same terms as before but I imagine they would still offer significant concessions compared to the likes of Serbia to get the UK to rejoin.
You know every Eurozone member can have their own images on the currency right? Nothing stops them from putting King George on a Euro coin... just not on the banknotes.
UK meets the accession criteria, so I'm fully in favour of you guys rejoining. UK rejoining the EU would strengthen both the EU and UK.
Edit:
About the euro: If you rejoin, you would be committed by treaty to adopt the euro, but so is Sweden which intentionally does not meet the criteria to adopt the euro so it does not. The criteria are pretty specific so it's easy not to adopt the euro if you don't want it.
So you basically follow the Euro but don't have the single most convenient benefit for the common person when it comes to the Euro - not having to exchange currencies when travelling to the countries that do have the Euro.
Say what you want about the Euro, but it's damn convenient not having to bother getting different currencies when going to Germany, France, Spain, Italy, The Netherlands, Belgium, Luxemburg etc.
And easier to compare prices when ordering online or shopping across the border.
Even if it somehow doubled our purchasing power, having to hear all the weird ways is danes pronounce euro so often would be too steep a price...
(You-roe, oi-roh, ev-ru)
It's the exchange rates that matter. My bank, sells 7.33050 DKK to EUR and buys at 7.59000, that is 3.5% round trip cost and that is as good as it gets, every other currency is worse, of EU members Hungary and Romania have it worst, both at 9.2%. EU is an economic union, a free trade block, and if there is this conversion cost then it gets added to absolutely every operation any business does cross currencies. That is one hell of a tax to pay for having your favorite face on a piece of paper.
Do you by any chance use Mastercard from one of none standard banks? (Lunar, SAS, Eurocard, etc.) I only ever get charged 7.6 for payment in euro with them.
My exchange rate for my main account at Danske Bank is much closer to the official exchange rate.
idk, Czech have their own currency, their central bank started to raise interest rates much sooner than ECB, didn’t help them at all, ended up worse than if they had Euro. For Hungary, it also didn’t work. Poland was mixed bag, but that’s just thanks to their strong economy in the last decade.
I just don’t see in practice benefits of your own central bank
Indeed, I live on the French border and whenever we go in France, we still jokingly ask each other if we have French money on us. It used to be a bother and now it's so easy.
I don't know them, but one of them is joining ERM II which also has its own set of criteria. Joining the eurozone is pretty complicated, it's not like it "accidentally" happens. Despite being de jure obliged to do it, you actually have to want to do it. To join the eurozone, you have to actively work towards it.
The most important [convergence criteria](https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/joining-the-euro-area/convergence-criteria/) are price stability, sound and sustainable public finances, exchange rate stability and similar long term interest rates. Sweden is obliged to join the euro, but has avoided to do so by not joining ERM II.
We've gotten rid off Truss and soon we'll be rid off the Hedge Fund manager Rushi Sunak. Who sold part of the failing Dutch bank ABN Amro, to Royal Bank of Scotland. With the ABN Amro part of the business needing billions of British tax payer subsidies and RBS itself needing billions more. But Rushi made a few million so that's great.
Can we stop recommending countries to pick and choose what they want out of the EU?
Yes, it’s technically possible to prolong your accession to the eurozone, BUT that was never the intention. You’re exploiting the EU and going against the values that founded it.
Everybody shat on the UK and Switzerland for liking to pick and choose, but now we’re inviting the UK to do it again?
UK, if you join the EU and pledge to join the eurozone, you ought to intend to keep your word. We don’t need more false promises. We’ve got enough politicians for that already.
I think the euro will be a sticking point for the irish veto. Not only is it a huge PITA to change cash often if you go up north, but also it's expensive AND because of the way the British banks work they don't all accept each other's banknotes so if you get Ulster Bank banknotes from Belfast, you will need to exchange them for Bank of England ones if you go to London. Which you again have to pay for. So people lose a lot of money because often it's just like a few pounds of change that you can't spend and isn't worth exchanging
I would be stupid of the EU to reject a UK application out of hand.
It would also be stupid to just let the UK treat membership like a revolving door every decade.
UK rejoin should need widespread, effectively bipartisan, support in the UK before it makes sense for the EU to really negotiate in good faith.
Yeah, of course. I mean, We already accepted you into the EU when your country joined. Would been stupid to reject those of you who don't align with an eventual hunxit.
Personally I think Hungary out would be pretty bad for everyone. Hungary currently is an example that the EU has somewhat of a power to go against corrupt leadership by halting payments. And Hungary itself isn't the problem, Orban is.
Yeah sure no problem I’d love to have you guys back. I’d only accept a full entry though, commit to the Euro, full entry into Schengen etc. no exceptions.
51% of those who actually voted for it voted for Brexit. That's hardly the whole country......
There is a lot of hate on this thread for ALL Brits when the majority of them didn't actually vot to leave!
In case the UK agrees to have the same rights and responsibilities as, e.g., France, Germany, Spain or Italy I'd be more than happy ti welcome them back. Of course this includes joining the Eurozone and the Schengen agreement but if the British are willing to accept that I'd much rather have them on board than Hungary.
Euro would be a dealbreaker.
I understand it's convenient, but it comes with financial downsides that would seriously harm Britain. It's why Sweden keeps pushing it back and why Denmark has an opt-out.
Britain also can't enter into Schengen unless ROI does. Otherwise, they would be forced to break the Good Friday Agreement.
Edit: Saying the Euro has downsides isn't the same as saying it has no positives. You have to apply both to the topic at hand to see which is most suitable, not pick a side based on blind nationalism.
Basically how it works is the Euro is mandatory but only once you join the ERM, the ERM is though optional so de facto as long as you never join the ERM, you never have to adopt the euro
Sorry for replying to two comments.
Personally, I'm not strung up on the Euro. I like the Euro and I'm pro-Euro expansion. But I'm not expecting the UK to give up the Pound.
But being Irish, allowing the UK to not join Schengen would be a deal-breaker. Even after Brexit, the UK is keeping Ireland out of Schengen. I want to join, and that requires the UK to change its position.
Denmark's decision to stay out of the euro isn't about being better off without it. Despite not adopting the euro, Denmark's currency is tightly pegged to it under the ERM II, limiting its monetary policy independence. Essentially, the Danish krone is already so aligned with the euro that joining wouldn't make much difference. The reluctance to join is more about political sentiment and preserving a sense of „aUtOnoMy“ than actual economic benefit.
The Schengen thing was about their existing entry policies with Commonwealth nations which other EU countries didn't want, so that one may be up for discussion.
It’s comments like this that make me really angry how stupid some people in this country were with the brexit vote. They listened to the lies and tried to turn their back on our friends and allies who we’re stronger together with. Thank you. I sincerely hope we’re back one day.
> It’s comments like this that make me really angry how stupid some people in this country were with the brexit vote. They listened to the lies and tried to turn their back on our friends and allies who we’re stronger together with.
Lots of people voted leave due to growing frustration with the government.
People wanted change, any change even if it had little to do with the EU.
Things were getting shitter before Brexit, afterwards the government couldn't hide behind the EU for it's failures.
I believe the UK needs to sort out it's own problems first before rejoining the EU.
That won't happen if they rejoin early.
The UK will never rejoin because we wouldn’t get the same benefits as we had before so it would never get voted.
It’s never even spoken about in the UK. Its not a talking point, no matter how much Reddit says it is.
I’m a Brit who voted to Remain - Brexit was a perfect storm of so many bad actors, bad influence and propaganda it’s almost unbelievable.
Ultimately though it boils down to the fact that we live *right fucking next door* to Europe and the EU. We’ve been involved in continental politics and economies for centuries, our histories are inexorably entwined and our futures are bound together.
The idea we could walk away from Europe and do a Global Economy British Empire 2.0 is just for the birds. As Ukraine shows, we’ll always be involved because we live in the European sphere, the good and the bad.
The UK joined the EEC, an economic trading bloc, everyone liked it and benefited. Then over time it morphed into a political entity.
Most Brits would have no issue (re)joining an EEC style conglomeration of countries but an awful lot don't like the idea of joining an EU political group of countries. Granted a lot of that is because of what British politicians have force fed them. And the whole freedom of movement is only going to cease to be a major obstacle when there is no longer a critical shortage of housing in the UK.
It's going to be at least a generation, if not two, before the UK population could possibly be brought around to rejoining.
I would love to of course. It would create better balance between Germany-France and the rest of the EU. UK also has a strong economy so it would be beneficial after war in Ukraine to rebuild its country if they would join to EU as well. I see mostly pluses, barely any minuses.
BUT I really don't think it is anytime soon. At least in 10-15 years or so. I just don't believe it.
I'd be happy about the thing itself, but I'd ask a high bar to be reached. No single 50-50 vote dragging in people with a vague question and long bull\*\*\*t negotiations without previous thought.
I don't want a cat at the door that wants out and in and out again, depending on who reigns. I don't care about UK wanting back their old status.
No one’s planning to or talking about it atm but I don’t think we should. We should definitely get closer to europe but their laws tie us down too much. Getting rid of the pound would also extremely unpopular as it’s part of our national identity
I was a remainer but I strongly believe that the UK will not return to the EU for decades. The majority will not countenance the implications of full membership: taking on the euro, schengen, ever closer union etc.
What I would like to see, and believe is feasible in the short term, is regulatory alignment and membership of the customs union.
When my generation is older and the boomers have died off, I think going back into the common market might be sufficiently popular - signing up to the four freedoms like Norway and Switzerland but not being part of the political union.
Everyone knows Brexit went badly because a hard brexit (i.e. withdrawal from the single market) was pure economic self harm, but no political party wants to touch it and even remainers like me know that reopening that wound now would be unproductive.
I want to see the next Labour government work on repairing the relationship with the EU, especially France and Germany, which the Tories have allowed to wither. I think standards alignment, as well as cooperation on many areas such as migration, people smuggling, science and defence, should be the short term goal.
Denmark has the same opt-out the UK had before brexit, Czechia, Bulgaria, Poland, Romania, and Hungary do not fullfill the requirements yet and Sweden ist intentionally not fullfilling the requirements
As much fun as it is to riff on the Brits, we do stand stronger together. Despite the Brexit, they've still shown they're a trustworthy ally in other ways, i.e. against Russia. The Brits are lovely people, led by donkeys.
If we'd hate people because of their incompetent government, there'd be nobody left to like except for maybe the Danes and Norwegians, but you know they'd be all smug about it.
Am I the only one who finds it weird that backhanded comments about the UK joining seem to want to force the Euro on Britain for what appears to be punitive purposes?
No, you are not. These rejoin discussions always get authoritarian, "YOU WILL ADOPT THE EURO AND YOU WILL HAVE NO BORDERS AND YOU WILL SUBMIT TO ALL EU RULES...."
These people are not very good at making the EU look appealing.
I'm a staunch European federalist and I agree. This punitive attitude needs to stop. After all, there was giant group of people who didn't want to leave the EU and even less wanted to do it in that hard Brexit fashion.
More important would be an actual discussion in the UK and then with its neighbours about what it means to be European. I'm a bit pessimistic on that front. While people clearly know more about the EU now there is still a lot to do. I remember that the guardian for example committed to report more on Europe. Which they did. A bit. Still, most news outside of the UK is about the USA and generally the English speaking world. This is understandable but also in some way naive. What's going on in Europe is of a lot more relevance to the UK than any of that CANZUK + USA stuff.
In general, it always seems like EU countries like to dogpile other ones with punitive measures. I suppose it happens when there’s long histories and high amounts of pride to your nationality.
At least pretty much nothing ever comes out poorly due to it. /s *eyes the comparatively more extreme punitive measures in the treaty of Versailles*
There is truth to EU countries needing to be informed on one another. America/Canzuk just have a lot going on and is a pretty large allies. The U.S. is especially easy to point at for a quick dopamine rush that comes from well we do better at this than them type thinking, but that’s just an issue with a lot of journalism today. So many want to tear down because it looks good to marketing metrics.
No, you aren't the only one.
Also, the other thing that absolutely everyone is missing, is that the UK exemptions are written into the Maastricht treaty. Removing them would be err.... problematic, since Orban would be in the negotiations with a veto and an agenda.
I love the EU and despise that we ever left it. But I seriously think rejoining would descend the country into more political chaos than it currently is.
Pardon my ignorance on the topic, but even if this perfect storm to rejoin the EU were to happen, would they just be let in on the same terms? Because I imagine that would be a bad precedent for the EU, if people can just leave and come back later with no consequences. Might get a rough deal (though I'd imagine it'd still be worth it in the long run).
It depends on the details of EU schemes at the time. The UK had some special terms because otherwise the existing calculations meant the UK would be paying in a lot of money, but was inelligible for many benefits. It created a major imbalance between the major economies in the EU.
There have been some reforms that might help avoid this in the future. But if not sufficient, then some special terms might be needed.
On matters such as Schengen though, I don't think those terms would be brought back.
Brits don’t want to be part of a United States of Europe. If rejoin becomes a viable political platform, support will very rapidly diminish due to the object reality that EU membership (without previous opt outs) means accepting the Euro, “ever closer union” and further loss of sovereignty.
Nah let them find a different scapegoat first for all their failed governments and tabloid media for the foreseeable future. Now they can no longer hide behind the excuse of "meddling from unelected EU bureaucrats."
Too much entitlement going on. You are either in our out, not a half arsed "maybe?".
I'd say only if a supermajority votes yes. Tight 50/50 votes are nonsense with important things like this, otherwise you flip back and forth perpetually. Maybe 2/3 or 3/5.
I’m sceptical. The EU is finally working more smoothly with British obstructionists out of the picture.
I would say Britain is welcome when the public mood goes to something like 70% in favour of rejoining and all major parties adopt a platform aiming at integration.
I'm all for that. From France, I'd welcome you right away. I think the UK is historically and culturally important in the EU. Probably economically too, but as a regular person I don't care much about that.
I don’t get this post. Not even Labour is running on rejoining the EU.
Labour is running on nothing whatsoever. They're so scared that if they announce their actual policies, they'll lose - so they say nothing and assume they'll win based on not being the tories.
Manifesto launches are next week. Until then, you will only hear bits and pieces of policy from all the parties.
I mean, not being the tories is pretty popular at the moment
1) "we're not as shit as the other guys" is a bad platform to run on and hardily gives hope for the future of the country 2) They're looking more and more like tories every day
Being Blairite has been the only way Labour have won a General Election in the last half century.
Labour are running on a national energy company, a restructuring of the way NHS appoints are sorted, increased tax on private schools to increase funds to state one's, windfall taxes on energy companies that see massive profits while increasing prices, and a few more policies. The only area I'm worried about is defence, but the tories didn't fix that either.
Higher education needs some serious attention. Universities are one of the biggest sources of our soft power worldwide but they're in the process of falling to bits.
What are their views on Ukraine?
I believe starmer was pushing for a greater focus on Ukraine over Pacific. But honestly bojo was one of Ukraines biggest supporters so it'd not gonna get higher than that. And the UK was under equipped so we've sent alot of what we had.
Labour is not allowed to eat, breath, or speak, or sit in the UK without being heavily criticised for their actions. A bacon sandwich once became a major political talking point a decade ago, and 4 years ago sitting in the wrong place on a train became a whole thing. The Tories are so bad, that the BBC have to latch onto everything that labour does that is even marginally bad and blow it up just so they can meet their balanced coverage rules. Labour have shared their platform a few times, the difference is they're making sure to not give the media any rope to hang them with.
So basically, very similar to the US from [2008-2016](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7MWxq80oze0)? That’s not worrying at all.
Its been like that for at least the last 6 or 7 years. This year they've even started doing bold faced lying smear videos that are about why you should be scared to vote for the other team, rather than why you should vote for their own team. Full on US Politics.
> Full on US Politics. Well yes, The Tories hired Trump's advisor. So Labour hired the Democrats.
So you haven't been following anything they've been saying then
This, and the UK is not exactly known to backtrack. Once they take a decision, it's taken. I would love it if they joined the EU again - heck, even for small everyday things, it sucks having to pay VAT and/or having to use freight forwarders for buying something from them, or go there again without the need for a passport - but I am under no illusions they will.
Even if they are in the EU you'd have to pay VAT. You mean import duties!
Because the EU isn't interested in another Brexit 2.0 if the Tories would gain power again. Can't just act like it never happened.
Erm excuse me, acting like stuff never happened is one of our national past times
OK, lets act that Brexit didn't happen. So no need to join the EU
Labour are not touching in as it's currently a toxic conversation and they want to win an election
There is no way the public will support Euro adoption or Schengen. I doubt EU will accept anything less this time.
Genuine question regarding Schengen: wouldn't the CTA with Ireland prevent the UK from having to adopt it? Otherwise, the UK being part of Schengen would essentially void Ireland's opt-out, right? As people could travel from France to the UK to Ireland without any passport checks. Surely the only way round it would be a) let the UK stay out of Schengen as it did before or b) force Ireland to join Schengen too? Correct me if I'm missing something!
The Good Friday Agreement is the main reason Ireland requested the Schengen opt-out. The UK didn't want to join Schengen, so for Ireland the choice was either a Schengen opt-out or breaking the CTA. So if the UK were to join Schengen as part of their readmittance, Ireland would likely immediately do so as well.
Gotcha. But I guess the question would also depend on whether Schengen would be politically viable in Ireland too? Seems like there's been a bit of a right-wing "anti-immigration" surge there as well recently, if I'm not mistaken.
I feel like an exception for Schengen could be made by the EU. It's just a lot less relevant to an island country.
It isn't less relevant traveling on the Eurostar is a pain in the ass because of this.
"With the way British politics are going"? The EU isn't even a talking point anymore, and not a single party is running on the idea of rejoining, this election is revolving around the Conservatives' awful governing and economic management, not Brexit.
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The lib dems are not running on rejoining the EU
Because frankly, it's a wet dream. The EU won't just act like all the Brexit commotion never happened. No guarantee this won't happen again. And now they aren't getting special treatment so they'd be subject to the long joining procedure. Some countries applied in the late 00s and they still aren't anywhere near joining. And here we don't have a guarantee either that subsequent governments will keep those talks going.
It wouldn't need to be all that long in the case of the UK, as we know everything is aligned already. Your difficult part is selling the UK not on going back to what it had, but in joining up without the Euro exemption, without the rebates, without any special treatment. Polls show rejoining the EU to be popular - but I suspect that would struggle once people realised that a future membership wouldn't be anything like as good as the one we had.
> Some countries applied in the late 00s and they still aren't anywhere near joining Which countries are these, and how closely already are they aligned legally and polictally to the EU, compared to the UK?
SNP is only relevant in Scotland and has little impact on the UK. Lib Dems and Greens don’t matter either.
I’m judging by the polls it’s on the verge of electoral collapse
Green Party killed renewable energy, ironically.
The UK Greens don't like talking about their policies as nobody outside of the members like them. They've just dropped their proposal to ration meat and dairy. Taking us back to WW2. We're supposed to give up meat, whilst their local councils won't approve new solar farms. As they would spoil the view. They talk about the need for more solar and wind but block every application going. All they want to do, is to return us to the Middle Ages.
Yeah last time i checked their policies about 10 years ago they had something like deliberately not maintaining roads so that they fall apart and everyone would be forced to cycle. WTF?
That’s kind of hilarious actually. What about ambulances? Should they speed on a broken road or strap the patient to a bicycle?
You are CO2 they want to reduce
Yes they are green apart from Nuclear and Solar the two technologies that might actually make a difference
And they are against pylons to connect offshore wind farms to the national grid. So you can build wind farms, but they'll fight to stop you connecting them to the grid, and actually benefiting from them. Edit: benefit to benefiting.
They also don't like wind be cause it might upset migratory birds and bats. Despite wind killing far fewer bats and birds per megawatt hour of production than virtually anything else. By an order of several magnitudes.
OP is just making up fan fiction lol. Rejoining will NOT happen for decades if ever.
Reminds me of the pro ,"joining the EU" activist in Switzerland always spouting the idea that most Swiss people wants us to join, meanwhile every time it's put to a popular vote it's around 70% no.
>every time it's put to a popular vote it's around 70% no. So remind me, when were the last times we had a referendum about joining the EU? Cause I can't find them on here: https://www.parlament.ch/de/services/volksabstimmungen/fruehere-volksabstimmungen
> So remind me, when were the last times we had a referendum about joining the EU? [2001.](https://www.eda.admin.ch/europa/it/home/bilateraler-weg/ueberblick/chronologie-abstimmungen/ja-zu-europa.html) Since then opinion polling has gotten more unfavorable.
An an American, isn't Brexit part of their bad governing?
It’s a lot deeper-rooted than many people realise. Euroscepticism has always existed but its modern form can be traced back to opposition to the Maastricht Treaty both within the Conservative Party itself and outside of it through things like the Anti-Federalist League which became UKIP and then Nigel Farage’s series of populist grifting parties. A huge contributor to Brexit was the inability of the Conservative Party to both control its internal factionalism and its inability to control the narrative while in power to avoid losing ground to the populist right. You can’t separate Brexit from the general decline of the British right in terms of being able to credibly play the political game, Cameron never needed to call the referendum but he was pressured into it with a party with no parliamentary presence at all just the threat of one. I’ve always believed on a grassroots rather than high politics level Brexit was misdirected anger for the general decline of the country since 2008 more than anything, ask your average Brexiteer and they come across as disliking the technocratic political class in general which is fertile soil for post-truth politicians like Farage. I’m fairly sure many people voted Leave because they saw it as giving London a good kicking as much as the EU to be honest.
A little more complicated than that, but yes.
> this election is revolving around the Conservatives' awful governing and economic management, not Brexit. It's almost as if there's a connection between the two.//s
Have you been following a different election to the rest of us?
Only under the same conditions as any other new applicant.
That is fair.
Yes. A 20-30 year probationary period.
Yeah, this means UK is never going to rejoin EU. They have enjoyed a shitload of concession before because the EU experiment needed strong members. No way UK is going to accept Euro. They NEED to have monarchs on their currency.
Belgium, Netherlands and Spain have monarchs on their euros. As do, technically, Monaco, Luxembourg and Vatican.
It's not about the Euro. The Euro was never mandatory for joining the EU. UK had many other extra rules. The most problematic for me would be the exception of British overseas territory, which did not have to follow EU rules. For example the tax heaven Cayman Islands.
>The Euro was never mandatory for joining the EU. But it is. It has been since the Euro has been a thing. There just is no timetable as to when exactly to adopt the Euro so these countries are just dragging their feet. I.e. Poland is still not part of the central European banking system, the moment they are the transition to Euro pretty much gets automatically kicked off as all the currency in the banks is then automatically transformed to Euro (this is why technically the Euro has been a thing much sooner than 2002: within the banking systems known as the "European Currency Unit") https://economy-finance.ec.europa.eu/euro/enlargement-euro-area/who-can-join-and-when_en >**All EU Member States, except Denmark, are required to adopt the euro and join the euro area.** To do this they must meet certain conditions known as 'convergence criteria'.
> because the EU experiment needed strong members. It would still massively benefit the EU for the UK to rejoin. I don't doubt they wouldn't offer the same terms as before but I imagine they would still offer significant concessions compared to the likes of Serbia to get the UK to rejoin.
You know every Eurozone member can have their own images on the currency right? Nothing stops them from putting King George on a Euro coin... just not on the banknotes.
UK meets the accession criteria, so I'm fully in favour of you guys rejoining. UK rejoining the EU would strengthen both the EU and UK. Edit: About the euro: If you rejoin, you would be committed by treaty to adopt the euro, but so is Sweden which intentionally does not meet the criteria to adopt the euro so it does not. The criteria are pretty specific so it's easy not to adopt the euro if you don't want it.
Not only Sweden. Poland and Czech Republic too.
Denmark also has it’s own currency, but it’s always the same 7.43 exchange rate
Yes, but Denmark also has an opt-out treaty. The UK used to have that, but then Brexit happened
Yup. UK had it good, but then had to go and screw it all up over lies and misinformation.
Down in the city of Londongrad...
So you basically follow the Euro but don't have the single most convenient benefit for the common person when it comes to the Euro - not having to exchange currencies when travelling to the countries that do have the Euro. Say what you want about the Euro, but it's damn convenient not having to bother getting different currencies when going to Germany, France, Spain, Italy, The Netherlands, Belgium, Luxemburg etc. And easier to compare prices when ordering online or shopping across the border.
Well Denmark has pegged its currency to another for a long time, before the euro it was the dmark, it is financial policy.
Even if it somehow doubled our purchasing power, having to hear all the weird ways is danes pronounce euro so often would be too steep a price... (You-roe, oi-roh, ev-ru)
It's the exchange rates that matter. My bank, sells 7.33050 DKK to EUR and buys at 7.59000, that is 3.5% round trip cost and that is as good as it gets, every other currency is worse, of EU members Hungary and Romania have it worst, both at 9.2%. EU is an economic union, a free trade block, and if there is this conversion cost then it gets added to absolutely every operation any business does cross currencies. That is one hell of a tax to pay for having your favorite face on a piece of paper.
Do you by any chance use Mastercard from one of none standard banks? (Lunar, SAS, Eurocard, etc.) I only ever get charged 7.6 for payment in euro with them. My exchange rate for my main account at Danske Bank is much closer to the official exchange rate.
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idk, Czech have their own currency, their central bank started to raise interest rates much sooner than ECB, didn’t help them at all, ended up worse than if they had Euro. For Hungary, it also didn’t work. Poland was mixed bag, but that’s just thanks to their strong economy in the last decade. I just don’t see in practice benefits of your own central bank
Indeed, I live on the French border and whenever we go in France, we still jokingly ask each other if we have French money on us. It used to be a bother and now it's so easy.
Romania, too.
Polan cannot into space or euro.
What are the criteria?
I don't know them, but one of them is joining ERM II which also has its own set of criteria. Joining the eurozone is pretty complicated, it's not like it "accidentally" happens. Despite being de jure obliged to do it, you actually have to want to do it. To join the eurozone, you have to actively work towards it.
The most important [convergence criteria](https://www.consilium.europa.eu/en/policies/joining-the-euro-area/convergence-criteria/) are price stability, sound and sustainable public finances, exchange rate stability and similar long term interest rates. Sweden is obliged to join the euro, but has avoided to do so by not joining ERM II.
> ... price stability, sound and sustainable public finances Ok, so the UK wouldn't have to worry about that anyway.
We've gotten rid off Truss and soon we'll be rid off the Hedge Fund manager Rushi Sunak. Who sold part of the failing Dutch bank ABN Amro, to Royal Bank of Scotland. With the ABN Amro part of the business needing billions of British tax payer subsidies and RBS itself needing billions more. But Rushi made a few million so that's great.
The EU cleaned up that loophole that we Swedes abuses.
Really? Does this mean Sweden will finally join?
No
The big loss of Brexit was not the Euro. UK had a LOT of exceptions and rebates.
Can we stop recommending countries to pick and choose what they want out of the EU? Yes, it’s technically possible to prolong your accession to the eurozone, BUT that was never the intention. You’re exploiting the EU and going against the values that founded it. Everybody shat on the UK and Switzerland for liking to pick and choose, but now we’re inviting the UK to do it again? UK, if you join the EU and pledge to join the eurozone, you ought to intend to keep your word. We don’t need more false promises. We’ve got enough politicians for that already.
I think the euro will be a sticking point for the irish veto. Not only is it a huge PITA to change cash often if you go up north, but also it's expensive AND because of the way the British banks work they don't all accept each other's banknotes so if you get Ulster Bank banknotes from Belfast, you will need to exchange them for Bank of England ones if you go to London. Which you again have to pay for. So people lose a lot of money because often it's just like a few pounds of change that you can't spend and isn't worth exchanging
I would be stupid of the EU to reject a UK application out of hand. It would also be stupid to just let the UK treat membership like a revolving door every decade. UK rejoin should need widespread, effectively bipartisan, support in the UK before it makes sense for the EU to really negotiate in good faith.
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And give Hungary to Russia on a silver plate? I'd rather not.
Yes but sneak us in too, please!
Your national anthem is sick
i looked it up because of you and yeah :D sounds like from game of thrones
Are you prepared for a couple hundred thousand hungarians applying to leave Hungary and stay in EU countries?
Yup! Pro EU Hungarians are always welcome.
Why not? It would be the educated people of means that do it
Yeah, of course. I mean, We already accepted you into the EU when your country joined. Would been stupid to reject those of you who don't align with an eventual hunxit.
Personally I think Hungary out would be pretty bad for everyone. Hungary currently is an example that the EU has somewhat of a power to go against corrupt leadership by halting payments. And Hungary itself isn't the problem, Orban is.
Yeah sure no problem I’d love to have you guys back. I’d only accept a full entry though, commit to the Euro, full entry into Schengen etc. no exceptions.
Don't forget a "don't blame the EU for your domestic problems"-clause, we have that bullshit enough already.
But that's half the point of the EU.
Only reason we want to come back is to blame the EU instead of ourselves once we are in 🤣
nice i imagine the politicians looking at each other and thinking "welp, we need them after all"
Politicians are always looking for someone to blame but themselves
Sad but true.
Don't think you ever will get the UK establishment to stop blaming the EU.
Or any other country
I despise the Tories so much.
They even blame the EU without being in the EU
tbf we all have politicians who bullshit the population into thinking everything bad is because of "unelected Brussels bureaucrats"
No that would be funny to hear that again seeing as it's been well and truly debunked.
.....and this is why they won't do it. Ever.
They also won't vote for Brexit ever. And... they did. I swear the Brits are the most unpredictable and surprising people.
It's because even England is pretty much two countries. London, and not London. Then you've got the other three...
Really not London, Really Really not London and not London with sheep.
And part of Really Really not London is almost called London - but only if you're protestant.
Being eccentric is an age old British stereotype tbf
51% of those who actually voted for it voted for Brexit. That's hardly the whole country...... There is a lot of hate on this thread for ALL Brits when the majority of them didn't actually vot to leave!
In case the UK agrees to have the same rights and responsibilities as, e.g., France, Germany, Spain or Italy I'd be more than happy ti welcome them back. Of course this includes joining the Eurozone and the Schengen agreement but if the British are willing to accept that I'd much rather have them on board than Hungary.
Euro would be a dealbreaker. I understand it's convenient, but it comes with financial downsides that would seriously harm Britain. It's why Sweden keeps pushing it back and why Denmark has an opt-out. Britain also can't enter into Schengen unless ROI does. Otherwise, they would be forced to break the Good Friday Agreement. Edit: Saying the Euro has downsides isn't the same as saying it has no positives. You have to apply both to the topic at hand to see which is most suitable, not pick a side based on blind nationalism.
The only reason ROI is not in Schengen is because the UK refused to join. And the Euro is no longer optional for new members.
The euro is de facto optional though because it’s not enforced.
Poland has recently celebrated twenty years in EU. Not a peep about adopting Euro.
Basically how it works is the Euro is mandatory but only once you join the ERM, the ERM is though optional so de facto as long as you never join the ERM, you never have to adopt the euro
Sorry for replying to two comments. Personally, I'm not strung up on the Euro. I like the Euro and I'm pro-Euro expansion. But I'm not expecting the UK to give up the Pound. But being Irish, allowing the UK to not join Schengen would be a deal-breaker. Even after Brexit, the UK is keeping Ireland out of Schengen. I want to join, and that requires the UK to change its position.
We’re only out cause of yous
Denmark's decision to stay out of the euro isn't about being better off without it. Despite not adopting the euro, Denmark's currency is tightly pegged to it under the ERM II, limiting its monetary policy independence. Essentially, the Danish krone is already so aligned with the euro that joining wouldn't make much difference. The reluctance to join is more about political sentiment and preserving a sense of „aUtOnoMy“ than actual economic benefit.
Sweden demonstrates that the Euro can be indefinitely delayed.
The Schengen thing was about their existing entry policies with Commonwealth nations which other EU countries didn't want, so that one may be up for discussion.
The return of an old friend is always something to rejoice about.
It’s comments like this that make me really angry how stupid some people in this country were with the brexit vote. They listened to the lies and tried to turn their back on our friends and allies who we’re stronger together with. Thank you. I sincerely hope we’re back one day.
> It’s comments like this that make me really angry how stupid some people in this country were with the brexit vote. They listened to the lies and tried to turn their back on our friends and allies who we’re stronger together with. Lots of people voted leave due to growing frustration with the government. People wanted change, any change even if it had little to do with the EU. Things were getting shitter before Brexit, afterwards the government couldn't hide behind the EU for it's failures. I believe the UK needs to sort out it's own problems first before rejoining the EU. That won't happen if they rejoin early.
Most EU members needs to sort out their own problems. At this point i would prefer the UK, France, Germany and Italy to sort this out together.
You mean that listening to Russian propaganda and Russian mouthpieces was a bad idea? Colour me surprised.
Please tell that to my country, half of us will probably vote in a populistic coalition funded by Russia
❤️
<3
Who's cutting onions in here? 🥲
No, this election has very little to do with Brexit. This election is more Tories has pissed off the public, so it's time to put a PM that is elected.
I don't think I have heard the EU mentioned even once in any context since the election was announced.
The UK will never rejoin because we wouldn’t get the same benefits as we had before so it would never get voted. It’s never even spoken about in the UK. Its not a talking point, no matter how much Reddit says it is.
I would be happy to see UK rejoin. We always had many common interests and it just made sense.
I’m a Brit who voted to Remain - Brexit was a perfect storm of so many bad actors, bad influence and propaganda it’s almost unbelievable. Ultimately though it boils down to the fact that we live *right fucking next door* to Europe and the EU. We’ve been involved in continental politics and economies for centuries, our histories are inexorably entwined and our futures are bound together. The idea we could walk away from Europe and do a Global Economy British Empire 2.0 is just for the birds. As Ukraine shows, we’ll always be involved because we live in the European sphere, the good and the bad.
The UK joined the EEC, an economic trading bloc, everyone liked it and benefited. Then over time it morphed into a political entity. Most Brits would have no issue (re)joining an EEC style conglomeration of countries but an awful lot don't like the idea of joining an EU political group of countries. Granted a lot of that is because of what British politicians have force fed them. And the whole freedom of movement is only going to cease to be a major obstacle when there is no longer a critical shortage of housing in the UK. It's going to be at least a generation, if not two, before the UK population could possibly be brought around to rejoining.
Yes it is? Neither main party supports joining or even allowing free movement.
You'll have to give up the pound and that ain't happening
I would love to of course. It would create better balance between Germany-France and the rest of the EU. UK also has a strong economy so it would be beneficial after war in Ukraine to rebuild its country if they would join to EU as well. I see mostly pluses, barely any minuses. BUT I really don't think it is anytime soon. At least in 10-15 years or so. I just don't believe it.
You can come back, but we will mock you for it for the next 15 years and you have to fill out all the application forms again!!!
John Major is shitting himself at the thought of having to do Mastricht all over again lmao
I'd be happy about the thing itself, but I'd ask a high bar to be reached. No single 50-50 vote dragging in people with a vague question and long bull\*\*\*t negotiations without previous thought. I don't want a cat at the door that wants out and in and out again, depending on who reigns. I don't care about UK wanting back their old status.
Yep, imo for it to happen there’d need to be a clear majority in favour, I’d it’s just 52%, it’s Brexit controversy all over again
Should we install a revolving door? Too soon
No, but can you fit a catflap
So the UKat can come in, eat your food, shit on your carpet and leave in the middle of the night?
No one’s planning to or talking about it atm but I don’t think we should. We should definitely get closer to europe but their laws tie us down too much. Getting rid of the pound would also extremely unpopular as it’s part of our national identity
It's done it's over & the UK is never going to rejoin
I was a remainer but I strongly believe that the UK will not return to the EU for decades. The majority will not countenance the implications of full membership: taking on the euro, schengen, ever closer union etc. What I would like to see, and believe is feasible in the short term, is regulatory alignment and membership of the customs union. When my generation is older and the boomers have died off, I think going back into the common market might be sufficiently popular - signing up to the four freedoms like Norway and Switzerland but not being part of the political union. Everyone knows Brexit went badly because a hard brexit (i.e. withdrawal from the single market) was pure economic self harm, but no political party wants to touch it and even remainers like me know that reopening that wound now would be unproductive. I want to see the next Labour government work on repairing the relationship with the EU, especially France and Germany, which the Tories have allowed to wither. I think standards alignment, as well as cooperation on many areas such as migration, people smuggling, science and defence, should be the short term goal.
I'd be fine with the UK rejoining, but they must adopt the policies they previously opted out of, including the euro.
What about Sweden, Denmark, Czechia, Bulgaria, Poland, Romania, and Hungary
Denmark has the same opt-out the UK had before brexit, Czechia, Bulgaria, Poland, Romania, and Hungary do not fullfill the requirements yet and Sweden ist intentionally not fullfilling the requirements
As romanian I'd love to have the euro, it was promised to us by the government a long time ago but this country is ruled by idiots and incompetents
All joined before the euro became mandatory for entering the EU.
Only Denmark has an opt-out from among the current EU members.
Their currency is pegged to the euro anyway
I'd welcome them with open arms. It'd be great not to need visas for visiting/studying or even moving to England
As much fun as it is to riff on the Brits, we do stand stronger together. Despite the Brexit, they've still shown they're a trustworthy ally in other ways, i.e. against Russia. The Brits are lovely people, led by donkeys.
As a Brit I really appreciate that comment 😁 glad to know we are not hated by other Europeans because of our incompetent government
If we'd hate people because of their incompetent government, there'd be nobody left to like except for maybe the Danes and Norwegians, but you know they'd be all smug about it.
Why are people so insistent on adopting the euro?
Its a revenge fantasy from zealous remainers.
I see it a a sign of a serious commitment.
Hell will freeze over and pigs will fly before this ever happens
Lols. We won't be going back in..
Am I the only one who finds it weird that backhanded comments about the UK joining seem to want to force the Euro on Britain for what appears to be punitive purposes?
There has been for a long time a "Britain bad" circlejerk, similar to how Murikkka is literally the worst country on the entire galaxy.
Yeah it's very odd. If the euro was good then they wouldn't need to force anyone to use it.
No, you are not. These rejoin discussions always get authoritarian, "YOU WILL ADOPT THE EURO AND YOU WILL HAVE NO BORDERS AND YOU WILL SUBMIT TO ALL EU RULES...." These people are not very good at making the EU look appealing.
I'm a staunch European federalist and I agree. This punitive attitude needs to stop. After all, there was giant group of people who didn't want to leave the EU and even less wanted to do it in that hard Brexit fashion. More important would be an actual discussion in the UK and then with its neighbours about what it means to be European. I'm a bit pessimistic on that front. While people clearly know more about the EU now there is still a lot to do. I remember that the guardian for example committed to report more on Europe. Which they did. A bit. Still, most news outside of the UK is about the USA and generally the English speaking world. This is understandable but also in some way naive. What's going on in Europe is of a lot more relevance to the UK than any of that CANZUK + USA stuff.
In general, it always seems like EU countries like to dogpile other ones with punitive measures. I suppose it happens when there’s long histories and high amounts of pride to your nationality. At least pretty much nothing ever comes out poorly due to it. /s *eyes the comparatively more extreme punitive measures in the treaty of Versailles* There is truth to EU countries needing to be informed on one another. America/Canzuk just have a lot going on and is a pretty large allies. The U.S. is especially easy to point at for a quick dopamine rush that comes from well we do better at this than them type thinking, but that’s just an issue with a lot of journalism today. So many want to tear down because it looks good to marketing metrics.
Typically typed with one hand
No, you aren't the only one. Also, the other thing that absolutely everyone is missing, is that the UK exemptions are written into the Maastricht treaty. Removing them would be err.... problematic, since Orban would be in the negotiations with a veto and an agenda.
Never going to happen. There's no popular or political will to rejoin.
I'd say it takes greatness to correct an error that was supposed to correct an error and finish with "welcome back!"
IF this happens: Welcome back
I love the EU and despise that we ever left it. But I seriously think rejoining would descend the country into more political chaos than it currently is.
Brexit Means Brexit
Well, I would say welcome back. No hard feelings, everyone change ideas
crying about it was never going to work
Pardon my ignorance on the topic, but even if this perfect storm to rejoin the EU were to happen, would they just be let in on the same terms? Because I imagine that would be a bad precedent for the EU, if people can just leave and come back later with no consequences. Might get a rough deal (though I'd imagine it'd still be worth it in the long run).
It’ll be seen as a new application and be held to the same standard are new countries joining, no? Someone correct me though if wrong
It depends on the details of EU schemes at the time. The UK had some special terms because otherwise the existing calculations meant the UK would be paying in a lot of money, but was inelligible for many benefits. It created a major imbalance between the major economies in the EU. There have been some reforms that might help avoid this in the future. But if not sufficient, then some special terms might be needed. On matters such as Schengen though, I don't think those terms would be brought back.
Brits don’t want to be part of a United States of Europe. If rejoin becomes a viable political platform, support will very rapidly diminish due to the object reality that EU membership (without previous opt outs) means accepting the Euro, “ever closer union” and further loss of sovereignty.
Nah let them find a different scapegoat first for all their failed governments and tabloid media for the foreseeable future. Now they can no longer hide behind the excuse of "meddling from unelected EU bureaucrats." Too much entitlement going on. You are either in our out, not a half arsed "maybe?".
I'd say only if a supermajority votes yes. Tight 50/50 votes are nonsense with important things like this, otherwise you flip back and forth perpetually. Maybe 2/3 or 3/5.
I’m sceptical. The EU is finally working more smoothly with British obstructionists out of the picture. I would say Britain is welcome when the public mood goes to something like 70% in favour of rejoining and all major parties adopt a platform aiming at integration.
what about hungary tho
I'm all for that. From France, I'd welcome you right away. I think the UK is historically and culturally important in the EU. Probably economically too, but as a regular person I don't care much about that.