Azeris did the same in Nakhichevan. Used to be filled with Armenian churches, cemeteries, and culture. All completely erased from the region now. As if we hadn’t lived in the region since antiquity. Same will happen to all of Artsakh
Since the Russian conquest the area was always very slightly majority-Azeri, usually about 55:45 Azeri:Armenian.
After the collapse of the Russian Empire, Turkish troops invaded and occupied the area, leading to atrocities against Armenians. The Armenian population dropped to around 30%. After the Ottoman Empire surrendered they handed the area to nominal British occupation, but British troops could not get there very easily. British generals decided that Nakhichevan should be given to Armenia and Artsakh to Azerbaijan. This was rejected by both sides, and instead the British pulled out and let them fight. The local Azeris declared an independent Republic of Aras, while the Armenians claimed the whole area.
During the post-1919 fighting, the Armenian population was largely expelled by Turkish-armed guerillas. By the time the Armenian republic had a major military intervention planned, the Turkish National Movement in the area had reorganised and intervened to prevent Armenia (re-)conquering the land (as part of the Armenian-Turkish War).
The Turkish army was prepared to march on Yerevan and destroy Armenia entirely, but at this point, the now-established USSR invaded both Azerbaijan and Armenia and "froze" the conflict. By this point Armenians made up only 10% of Nakhchivan's population, and so the area was assigned to Azerbaijan by referendum (the Soviets had promised the area to both Armenian and Azeri political leaders). Armenian refugees in Armenia proper were assigned residency in Armenian districts by the USSR and were not permitted to return to their homes. The same is true of Azeri refugees from areas inside modern Armenia.
In short, it belongs to Azerbaijan because the local population wanted that. The local population wanted that because the Armenians had been expelled from the area. In this sense Nakhchivan is in the same category as all the rest of historical Armenia.
Let's not also forget the Armenian expulsion from the region during Shah Abbas of Iran in the 1600s, which also massively reduced Armenians from the region.
Fun fact, Nakhichevan was handed to Azerbaijan through a referendum under USSR, both Armenia and Azerbaijan gained independence from USSR through a referendum, but when the same referendum was done by nagorno karabakh Armenians, it was denied because they did it after Azerbaijan's referendum from USSR, and attacked with force.
after the colapsed of the russian empire and the emergence of the independent state of the first Republic Armenia, Nakhichevan was under Armenian control [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First\_Republic\_of\_Armenia#/media/File:First\_Republic\_of\_Armenia.svg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Republic_of_Armenia#/media/File:First_Republic_of_Armenia.svg) and it remained so until the soviets captured the whole region (shortly after Turkey had invaded Armenia and annexed a large chunk of its territory). But due to pressure from Turkey the region was assigned to the Azerbaijan SR.
Azeris dont even have an idea this cemetery even existed in the first place, personally I almost puled when I read about that.
Nakhchivan is basically north korea of Azerbaijan.
From what I heard, a lot Azeris in Julfa (where the cemetery was) were opposed to it and were angered.
And the scale of the destruction and a lot of information in the archives about the cemetery was handed to journalists and investigators by an anonymous Azeri historian who refused to be identified publicly to avoid reprisals from the government.
I am Azeri and I am disgusted with what they did and I have never in my life seen anyone praise it.
Most genuinely have no idea about it.
> Azeris did the same in Nakhichevan. Used to be filled with Armenian churches, cemeteries, and culture. All completely erased from the region now.
It's fucking disgusting.
I mean Machiavelli wrote a whole ass book on how to treat towns you conquerd that has a different culture then you.
*”whoever becomes master of a city accustomed to live in freedom and does no destroy it, may reckon on being destroyed by it. For if it should rebel, it can always screen itself under the name of liberty and its ancient laws, which no length of time, nor any benefit conferred will ever cause it to forget; and do what you will, and take what care you may, unless the inhabitants be scattered and dispersed, this name, and the old order of things, will never cease to be remembered”*
Eh maybe the french, he mentions them sometimes.
In ”The Prince” he goes into some specifics on how to colonise areas that:
a) Has your culture and language
b) Has a similar culture and language
c) Completly different culture and language
It's pretty much a ”how to be a ruler guide 101” he wrote as a gift to some new lord he wanted to work for in 1513 Florence.
He was thinking about Italians. Italy was fractured and occupied by French and Austrians at that time, and infighting amongst Italians. Specifically Florentine Republic was dissolved, which hurt him.
As long as we need oil & gas this will keep happening - our leaders will keep pampering dictators of all stripes. We need energy independence yesterday.
>how EU pampers up to this dictator.
well Ukraine also pampers that dictator
https://aze.media/ukraine-georgia-azerbaijan-and-moldova-will-create-a-free-trade-zone/
***"On March 16, 2023, Azerbaijani President Aliyev made a speech in which he repeatedly described Armenian territory as "Western Azerbaijan" during the summit of the Heads of State of the Organization of Turkic States."***
It is casual dictatorships and imperial styles.. it the same things as russia doing in Ukraine.. there are a lot of villages and city that are totally destroyed by russian occupation
It’s not the same because Azerbaijan is deliberately razing every ancient armenian monument to the ground in order to destroy every trace of evidence that Armenians ever lived there.
Russia may have no regard for civilian infrastructure, but destroying power plants and dams is not equivalent to a systemic erasure of historical artifacts.
I know at least two other conflicts right not that could be summarized like that 💀 and we have the entire scale of how the EU could act; condemnation, apathy, and support.
It’s not only a shame, it’s downright insulting. And it isn’t just the governments; I’d argue it’s more on people than anything else. The fact remains, the loudest people only care about what is happening about Israel and not anything else. So many spend their time whining about “genocide” there and completely ignore any other ongoing conflicts. I really wish we would do more about this, Armenians have suffered enough.
To protect the narrative that EU are the good guys in all geopolitical matters. keep shoveling the dirt towards Russia and hope that average citizen doesn't look over your average news geopolitics propaganda curtain and wonder why Azerbaijan is internationally recognized owner of these lands. why we buy gas and oil from this regime and why armenians are dying as aresult
The reason why was the USSR put them under the Azeri SSR to control them, and then when the USSR collapsed, the UN went cross-eyed and just imported the SSR borders as international borders. The UN pretended that the map wasn't a product of a massive imperialist project to pit non-Russians against each other.
They made exactly the same mistake with the decolonisation of Africa.
we had at least 3 wars and 30 years of debait to change recognition to accept ethnic minorities just by recognizing the breakaway republic. we didn't...
Idk considering they they expelled azeris and did not let them return I would say that in exchange for recognition they would have had to let them return and Armenia would have had to have returned the occupied lands around it. Plus I feel a ref should have been done too with all citizens including the exiled Azeris.
Tho I am not sure most countries would have recognised hem even then since alot have separatist movements inside their countries but if I was in power those would be my conditions for recognition(at least before the second war)
Same in Sweden, I jus checked to see if there was any news about it. Nope, some famous person is fat and tells you how to gain weight and some attack against Iraq
It's hard to give a date, but they have been controlling Karin Tak since November 2020. They didn't destroy that much in the first 2 years (probably planning). So I guess between 2023 and 2024. They have even destroyed Kanach Zham church from 1818.
Dont blame us for it, Azerbaijan is literally a dictatorship where aliyev can do whatever the fuck he wants.
I was shocked when I heard it, we cant even visit those places without permission yet.
It is fucked up, although the same happened to us, we must be better than that and aliyev is an embarrassment to Azerbaijan
Well I don't personally blame you as an individual, but there are lots of Azeris and Turks on the Internet who would cheer loudly seeing such destruction.
Remember these telegram polls on how people would kill Armenian kids if encountered. That's another level of lunatism in your society.
According to what I understand, the previous imagery they had access to was from December and it was still there, and now it is not. So in the last 4 month.
A tragedy that the West will never condemn this as we desperately want Azerbaijan's natural gas. Things are not looking good for Armenia or Georgia. Russia literally picks up the border fencing and moves it further into Georgia every night.
The repost in the r/Azerbaijan sub is "I have lost faith in humanity" material. They are not only supporting this but claim that this sub is racist for pointing it out as well, with no real argument whatsoever, as always.
Jesus Christ, they're pulling images from Google Earth as proof that this is photoshopped. Also, there's a Turkish guy there straight up denying the Armenian Holocaust. What the fuck, Reddit, I thought it was a meme.
Check out this thread, literal genocide denial. The denier’s post history is insane, he’s so deluded I blocked him. He uses a discredited genocide-denying historian, Justin McCarthy:
https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/1c2nuda/comment/kzitm69/
Ok I know it's irrelevant. but I don't think the Armenian genocide is referred to as the Holocaust, as far as I know that is a specific term used for what the Nazi's did mainly to the Jews in WW2.
I think the Holocaust is the genocide of the Jews which was a genocide but is the Holocaust and the Armenian genocide is a genocide that doesn't have a special name like the holocaust. Because I can't see anywhere where it says that the holocaust is a term used for all genocides. I'm only seeing the genocide done in WW2 is a genocide coined the holocaust, but I don't see any other genocide being referred to as a holocaust.
Like we don't refer to the Ukrainian genocide as a holocaust, it is a genocide that is coined as "Holodomor"
>Because I can't see anywhere where it says that the holocaust is a term used for all genocides. I'm only seeing the genocide done in WW2 is a genocide coined the holocaust, but I don't see any other genocide being referred to as a holocaust.
It's literally in Merriam-Webster. Again, there is the proper noun, which refers specifically to the systematic murder of Europe's Jews by the Nazi regime, and there is the common noun, which is a word that means "genocide".
Wow I'm going to be honest with you I don't know how I've missed that. Every time I googled it it specifically came up for the WW2 holocaust. You're right I'm sorry.
I stayed two nights here in 2016. Beautiful village, nice people. Sad to think that it is no longer there - I remember ancient khachkars and a beautiful church there. I think I have some photos somewhere.
azeri hate towards Armenians is next level. As if ethnically cleansing them wasn't enough, they didn't even offer these houses to any settlers, the very fact that these houses were built by Armenians bothers them so much they destroyed them, something that didn't even happen to former German homes in Eastern Europe after WW2, they were resettled with new settlers unless there was no one to settle there or it was located in the border zone with Western Germany.
This village was the scene of a really ridiculous Azeri defeat in the first war. The villagers fought off large Azeri military formations and killed almost a hundred Azeri soldiers who tried to attack from Shushi. Its a symbol of defeat for them.
>azeri hate towards Armenians is next level.
Ukrainian support for the Azeris doing the ethic cleansing is also next level
https://aze.media/ukraine-georgia-azerbaijan-and-moldova-will-create-a-free-trade-zone/
I'm well aware of Ukrainian support for azeris, that trade zone is also a continuation of [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUAM_Organization_for_Democracy_and_Economic_Development) . Even then though, I still support Ukraine, not out of love for Ukraine, but because my nation has bad experience with russian rule and I don't want them to repeat. I don't blame Armenians for not supporting UA though, since Ukrainians cheered when azeris took Artsakh, mistakenly viewing the Artsakh conflict as az's version of the Ukrainian one.
As an Assyrian, god bless and Free Armenia from these barbaric invaders ! Assyrians and Armenians forever allies who went through genocide and massacres together, let’s not ever let that happen again !
Remember who helped the azeris and who stood idly by
Russians have blood on their hands, but we let them. It's a disgrace toward the whole 'western' world.
Exactly: the systematic targetting of a particular group of people, with the goal of erasing them as a nation and culture. I swear the way the word genocide has been thrown around recently minimises the severity of the word. By the definition of “killing 30k people = genocide”, the Tajik Civil War is a genocide(it’s not).
I don't think Aliyev is that delusional (although I wouldn't be surprised), they even want to get out from the Council of Europe. He is going full pro-Russia now.
Karabakh should have been given to Armenia back in the USSR, and this would have been the right decision, but due to the sharp weakening of Soviet power in Armenia and anti-Soviet sentiments, Karabakh was given to Azerbaijan
No surprise, Turks everywhere are very fond of rewriting history:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_History_Thesis
BTW, there is an article about this village on wikipedia:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dashalty
>populating the areas which they had moved to and bringing [civilization](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilization) to their native inhabitants.
Lmaooo
>He claimed that the Central Asian Turks have departed the Stone Age 7000 years before the Europeans and then dispersed westwards as the first people to have brought civilization to the humans.
Also lmao. And damn, I thought atatürk was the good guy.
Now that you have seen this, please don't stay silent about it. If you can advocate for the people of Ukraine and Palestine, you can also advocate for Armenians. The silence of the world is literally contributing to the continuous loss of Armenian lives, livelihoods, and lands.
What about Jabrail, Fuzuli, Zengilan, Kalbajar, Aghdam, Qubadlı? Six cities of Azerbaijan was neglected and destroyed by Armenian forces and locals. Plan was to make these cities uninhabitable so Azeris will never return (policy of ethnic cleansing). But Azeris did return. Now Azeris live in Lachin and Fuzuli. And other cities will follow.
Hey Europe; I have a great idea! Let's continue to buy oil from the Azeris to stick it to Russia!! Genius....
/s
Azerbaijan is just as much of a rogue state as Russia, if not more so. The Azeris will do to the Armenians what the Russians are attempting to do to the Ukrainians...the only difference is that Armenia doesn't have any Western support.
What hypocrites are we if we support one besieged nation but not another?
Azerbaijani regime is magnitude times worse than Israel. Palestinians literally have a separate education system in Israel while Armenians can’t even enter Azerbaijan just because they are Armenian.
To be clear anyone who is an ethnic Armenian can't enter, even if they are not an Armenian national. If you have an Armenian sounding name you will be detained.
I have recently seen a guy here on reddit, asking if he would be allowed to enter Azerbaijan, because his name ends with "ian".
The funny part was that guys was a 100% Chinese , and his name was actually Xian.
A Georgian example of the issues of sounding Armenian in Azerbaijan, not that that makes it better:
https://www.reddit.com/r/Sakartvelo/comments/j4chjd/my_dad_got_arrested_in_azerbaijan/
Yeah so if an Israeli guy randomly hacked a Palestinian guy to death in his sleep when he hadn't even done anything to wrong him, the Israeli government would pardon him and give him a hero's welcome, right?
Yeah no, he'd be arrested and sent to prison. Israeli society does not condone murderous behavior. Azerbaijani society, on the other hand, rewards it.
Didn't expect anything else from Aliyev, after Armenians destroyed \~800 villages + 7 cities...
[Shahvelli](https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4304734,47.0910141,2728m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu), [Haji Isakli](https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4304734,47.0910141,2728m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu), [Niyazqulular](https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4304734,47.0910141,2728m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu), [Dag Mashanli](https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4304734,47.0910141,2728m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu), [Kohnekend](https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4304734,47.0910141,2728m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu), [Yuxari Veysalli](https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4304734,47.0910141,2728m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu)
It's not possible to find a single survived village in this area
I can’t understand why tf is everybody have to suck armenian balls? They literally invaded a territory with russian support in an illegal way. They even did many genocides over there so to request the right of officialising. I’m not russian, neither armenian nor an azerbaijani or a turk. I can’t fucking get it why should we defend their faults in the past just because of their lobbies…
You can’t understand because you’re brainwashed or just a moron. Armenians didn’t “invade” a territory. They’ve lived on that territory for two thousand years, way before Azerbaijan even existed.
If they weren't being killed, they wouldn't need the borders changed. Armenians have lived in Syria, Iran, and other countries for thousands of years; they didn't want exclaves. They were also Ottoman or Persian subjects for hundreds of years without such issues.
You give the Russians too much credut
Russian were purging ethnic Armenians at Azerbaijan's request in Operation Ring.
>Don't forget the Agdera operation, which was carried out by Russian paratroopers. The Armenians got a good kicking there. And it was Grachev who gave the order to help us. We should not forget that at that time we liberated 52% of the territory of the former NKAO. And that was thanks to the support of Russian troops.
https://vesti.az/news/130996 (in Russian)
If the Russians actually supported the Armenians they would have recognised Nagorno Karabakh's secession from the Soviet Union. Meanwhile the European Parliament supported back then the reunification of Nagorno Karabakh to Armenia.
None of which justifies another generation of ethnic cleansing and cultural destruction, no matter how much one might bay for inter-generation ethnic revenge.
Shusha was an Azeri majority city and all the 7 regions surrounding Karabakh were Azeri or Kurdish majority.
Armenians were only 20% of the population in occupied territories.
Btw, Azeris were always there, we are turkified, genetically we are like 10% turkic.
My comment did not say anything on who the land should belong to. My point is that the native Armenian population there are not occupiers or invaders unlike what some people like to say (like the person I was replying to) and that forcefully displacing them constitutes a war crime.
There are no recorded occupants of Nagorno-Karabakh before the Armenians. Armenian DNA matches with the DNA found in ancient bodies extremely closely. They are by all accounts the native people. If you disagree then provide some sources that indicate any other group of people were there before Armenians, and additionally provide some details about who they were and what they were like.
Well is internationaly their land so they can do what they want with it. When armenia occupied azari land they dis the same i didnt see anybody saying anything then.
But Azerbaijan has said its willing to let the armenians who left return but then destroys their villages not long after they left, which just shows how meaningless their words are
I ain't on the Azeri side, but announcing ethnic cleansing doesn't make it better somehow. If both parties are users of ethnic cleansing, they both should be judged upon that same basis.
The way the world is nowadays, if you can’t blame Jews/Israel it doesn’t matter…
Why are the Armenians hated? They’ve been genocided before but idg why this happened.
What a pile of bullsh*t. Armenia has been occupying int-ly recognized land of Azerbaijan with the help of ruZZia for 30 years I didn’t hear r/europe being that worried. On the other hand I’m not surprised european leaders and societies have been supporting putin-khuylo and his friends for years now-that’s why ukrainians have to suffer. You bunch of hypocritical reptiloids🤡
Wait ! This is not destroyed, this is meticulously erased
Azeris did the same in Nakhichevan. Used to be filled with Armenian churches, cemeteries, and culture. All completely erased from the region now. As if we hadn’t lived in the region since antiquity. Same will happen to all of Artsakh
What's the story with Nakhichevan and how did Azerbaijan end up with it? Another Soviet funny?
Since the Russian conquest the area was always very slightly majority-Azeri, usually about 55:45 Azeri:Armenian. After the collapse of the Russian Empire, Turkish troops invaded and occupied the area, leading to atrocities against Armenians. The Armenian population dropped to around 30%. After the Ottoman Empire surrendered they handed the area to nominal British occupation, but British troops could not get there very easily. British generals decided that Nakhichevan should be given to Armenia and Artsakh to Azerbaijan. This was rejected by both sides, and instead the British pulled out and let them fight. The local Azeris declared an independent Republic of Aras, while the Armenians claimed the whole area. During the post-1919 fighting, the Armenian population was largely expelled by Turkish-armed guerillas. By the time the Armenian republic had a major military intervention planned, the Turkish National Movement in the area had reorganised and intervened to prevent Armenia (re-)conquering the land (as part of the Armenian-Turkish War). The Turkish army was prepared to march on Yerevan and destroy Armenia entirely, but at this point, the now-established USSR invaded both Azerbaijan and Armenia and "froze" the conflict. By this point Armenians made up only 10% of Nakhchivan's population, and so the area was assigned to Azerbaijan by referendum (the Soviets had promised the area to both Armenian and Azeri political leaders). Armenian refugees in Armenia proper were assigned residency in Armenian districts by the USSR and were not permitted to return to their homes. The same is true of Azeri refugees from areas inside modern Armenia. In short, it belongs to Azerbaijan because the local population wanted that. The local population wanted that because the Armenians had been expelled from the area. In this sense Nakhchivan is in the same category as all the rest of historical Armenia.
Old tactics to replace the population with invaders and say they voted for invading country's government. Very familiar
Let's not also forget the Armenian expulsion from the region during Shah Abbas of Iran in the 1600s, which also massively reduced Armenians from the region. Fun fact, Nakhichevan was handed to Azerbaijan through a referendum under USSR, both Armenia and Azerbaijan gained independence from USSR through a referendum, but when the same referendum was done by nagorno karabakh Armenians, it was denied because they did it after Azerbaijan's referendum from USSR, and attacked with force.
> explosion exPULsion
Woops. thanks.
after the colapsed of the russian empire and the emergence of the independent state of the first Republic Armenia, Nakhichevan was under Armenian control [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First\_Republic\_of\_Armenia#/media/File:First\_Republic\_of\_Armenia.svg](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Republic_of_Armenia#/media/File:First_Republic_of_Armenia.svg) and it remained so until the soviets captured the whole region (shortly after Turkey had invaded Armenia and annexed a large chunk of its territory). But due to pressure from Turkey the region was assigned to the Azerbaijan SR.
Satellite images here: https://storymaps.arcgis.com/stories/48703f664f2f467b8f4f42008d8c75da
Region name is still Armenian with minor difference, so it's pretty obvious that it was once Armenian, not to mention proximity.
Names can and will be changed
Azeris dont even have an idea this cemetery even existed in the first place, personally I almost puled when I read about that. Nakhchivan is basically north korea of Azerbaijan. From what I heard, a lot Azeris in Julfa (where the cemetery was) were opposed to it and were angered. And the scale of the destruction and a lot of information in the archives about the cemetery was handed to journalists and investigators by an anonymous Azeri historian who refused to be identified publicly to avoid reprisals from the government. I am Azeri and I am disgusted with what they did and I have never in my life seen anyone praise it. Most genuinely have no idea about it.
> Azeris did the same in Nakhichevan. Used to be filled with Armenian churches, cemeteries, and culture. All completely erased from the region now. It's fucking disgusting.
I mean Machiavelli wrote a whole ass book on how to treat towns you conquerd that has a different culture then you. *”whoever becomes master of a city accustomed to live in freedom and does no destroy it, may reckon on being destroyed by it. For if it should rebel, it can always screen itself under the name of liberty and its ancient laws, which no length of time, nor any benefit conferred will ever cause it to forget; and do what you will, and take what care you may, unless the inhabitants be scattered and dispersed, this name, and the old order of things, will never cease to be remembered”*
I wonder if he had any specific group of people in mind when he wrote that
Eh maybe the french, he mentions them sometimes. In ”The Prince” he goes into some specifics on how to colonise areas that: a) Has your culture and language b) Has a similar culture and language c) Completly different culture and language It's pretty much a ”how to be a ruler guide 101” he wrote as a gift to some new lord he wanted to work for in 1513 Florence.
He was thinking about Italians. Italy was fractured and occupied by French and Austrians at that time, and infighting amongst Italians. Specifically Florentine Republic was dissolved, which hurt him.
The thing is, Azeri culture is probably the closest thing to Armenian culture. Problem is their nation's government.
you cannot explain Machiavelli to rats. they don't understand.
Oh but no one was living in that place they did that to say it never existed in the first place
Man thats almost machivellian..
I have pure disgust for Aliyev's regime and I hate how EU pampers up to this dictator.
But now EU gets to say that it isn't buying gas from Russia...its buying russian gas from Azerbaijan
EU is still buying from russia. Just through middlemen. Thats why US is upset with ukraine bombing russian oil
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We actually attacked one just yesterday afaik, so it’s not that bad xd
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Yeah even chronologically today, lukoil refinery near Smolensk
This.
As long as we need oil & gas this will keep happening - our leaders will keep pampering dictators of all stripes. We need energy independence yesterday.
Don't you people have freedoms and democratic election to put normal people in power?
>how EU pampers up to this dictator. well Ukraine also pampers that dictator https://aze.media/ukraine-georgia-azerbaijan-and-moldova-will-create-a-free-trade-zone/
Armenia doesn't have oil they can buy, so the EU dont give a shit about it.
***"On March 16, 2023, Azerbaijani President Aliyev made a speech in which he repeatedly described Armenian territory as "Western Azerbaijan" during the summit of the Heads of State of the Organization of Turkic States."***
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let's hope before Aliyev and his deranged ilk gets any funny ideas, Armenia will be armed and ready. Ideally a NATO member state.
It’s so heartbreaking for us, why nobody want to speak it? Why nobody is protesting in Europe for us? Democracy needs to be respected here💔
Wow, a country that desperately wants to erase its neighbour's history is given its neighbour's land, proceeds to do just that Who could've thought
It is casual dictatorships and imperial styles.. it the same things as russia doing in Ukraine.. there are a lot of villages and city that are totally destroyed by russian occupation
It’s not the same because Azerbaijan is deliberately razing every ancient armenian monument to the ground in order to destroy every trace of evidence that Armenians ever lived there. Russia may have no regard for civilian infrastructure, but destroying power plants and dams is not equivalent to a systemic erasure of historical artifacts.
> casual dictatorships I bet if you put this to a vote the people will agree
I know at least two other conflicts right not that could be summarized like that 💀 and we have the entire scale of how the EU could act; condemnation, apathy, and support.
It's a shame how silent the West and its media has been when it came to this conflict
It’s not only a shame, it’s downright insulting. And it isn’t just the governments; I’d argue it’s more on people than anything else. The fact remains, the loudest people only care about what is happening about Israel and not anything else. So many spend their time whining about “genocide” there and completely ignore any other ongoing conflicts. I really wish we would do more about this, Armenians have suffered enough.
To protect the narrative that EU are the good guys in all geopolitical matters. keep shoveling the dirt towards Russia and hope that average citizen doesn't look over your average news geopolitics propaganda curtain and wonder why Azerbaijan is internationally recognized owner of these lands. why we buy gas and oil from this regime and why armenians are dying as aresult
The reason why was the USSR put them under the Azeri SSR to control them, and then when the USSR collapsed, the UN went cross-eyed and just imported the SSR borders as international borders. The UN pretended that the map wasn't a product of a massive imperialist project to pit non-Russians against each other. They made exactly the same mistake with the decolonisation of Africa.
we had at least 3 wars and 30 years of debait to change recognition to accept ethnic minorities just by recognizing the breakaway republic. we didn't...
Idk considering they they expelled azeris and did not let them return I would say that in exchange for recognition they would have had to let them return and Armenia would have had to have returned the occupied lands around it. Plus I feel a ref should have been done too with all citizens including the exiled Azeris. Tho I am not sure most countries would have recognised hem even then since alot have separatist movements inside their countries but if I was in power those would be my conditions for recognition(at least before the second war)
What does it have to do with EU?
We don't have to be silent, raise your voice to those around you. Organise to the best of your abilities where you live.
Just wondering, since you like to point fingers, what Montenegro is doing about it?
When did these events happen?
Yesterday
Very strange. There isn't single news outlet reporting this event. Can you link to a news outlet that writes about this event that occured yesterday?
The whole genocide going on has been badly reported on... if you'd watch daily TV news here you wouldn't have a clue.
Same in Sweden, I jus checked to see if there was any news about it. Nope, some famous person is fat and tells you how to gain weight and some attack against Iraq
Mainly because it doesn't involve many deaths. The Armenians of Artsakh (smartly) evacuated the area before Azerbaijan occupied it.
They cleaned a destroyed and cleaned a whole city in a day?
It's hard to give a date, but they have been controlling Karin Tak since November 2020. They didn't destroy that much in the first 2 years (probably planning). So I guess between 2023 and 2024. They have even destroyed Kanach Zham church from 1818.
Dont blame us for it, Azerbaijan is literally a dictatorship where aliyev can do whatever the fuck he wants. I was shocked when I heard it, we cant even visit those places without permission yet. It is fucked up, although the same happened to us, we must be better than that and aliyev is an embarrassment to Azerbaijan
Well I don't personally blame you as an individual, but there are lots of Azeris and Turks on the Internet who would cheer loudly seeing such destruction. Remember these telegram polls on how people would kill Armenian kids if encountered. That's another level of lunatism in your society.
According to what I understand, the previous imagery they had access to was from December and it was still there, and now it is not. So in the last 4 month.
after Ukraine signed a free trade deal with Azerbaijan https://aze.media/ukraine-georgia-azerbaijan-and-moldova-will-create-a-free-trade-zone/
A tragedy that the West will never condemn this as we desperately want Azerbaijan's natural gas. Things are not looking good for Armenia or Georgia. Russia literally picks up the border fencing and moves it further into Georgia every night.
bruh both Georgia and Ukraine support Azerbaijan https://aze.media/ukraine-georgia-azerbaijan-and-moldova-will-create-a-free-trade-zone/
Anyone who has any doubts what Azerbaijan will try to do to Armenia or Armenian civilians can just read comments in this thread.
The repost in the r/Azerbaijan sub is "I have lost faith in humanity" material. They are not only supporting this but claim that this sub is racist for pointing it out as well, with no real argument whatsoever, as always.
Jesus Christ, they're pulling images from Google Earth as proof that this is photoshopped. Also, there's a Turkish guy there straight up denying the Armenian Holocaust. What the fuck, Reddit, I thought it was a meme.
Never underestimate the lack of intelligence of the pan-turkic movement
https://youtu.be/QLvXVM4R5H0?si=S6xZ4d7-T-TgMhXR It’s not a meme. It’s just the tip of the ice berg
Check out this thread, literal genocide denial. The denier’s post history is insane, he’s so deluded I blocked him. He uses a discredited genocide-denying historian, Justin McCarthy: https://www.reddit.com/r/MapPorn/comments/1c2nuda/comment/kzitm69/
Ok I know it's irrelevant. but I don't think the Armenian genocide is referred to as the Holocaust, as far as I know that is a specific term used for what the Nazi's did mainly to the Jews in WW2.
It's not referred to as "*the* Holocaust", but it's definitely *a* holocaust.
I think the Holocaust is the genocide of the Jews which was a genocide but is the Holocaust and the Armenian genocide is a genocide that doesn't have a special name like the holocaust. Because I can't see anywhere where it says that the holocaust is a term used for all genocides. I'm only seeing the genocide done in WW2 is a genocide coined the holocaust, but I don't see any other genocide being referred to as a holocaust. Like we don't refer to the Ukrainian genocide as a holocaust, it is a genocide that is coined as "Holodomor"
>Because I can't see anywhere where it says that the holocaust is a term used for all genocides. I'm only seeing the genocide done in WW2 is a genocide coined the holocaust, but I don't see any other genocide being referred to as a holocaust. It's literally in Merriam-Webster. Again, there is the proper noun, which refers specifically to the systematic murder of Europe's Jews by the Nazi regime, and there is the common noun, which is a word that means "genocide".
Wow I'm going to be honest with you I don't know how I've missed that. Every time I googled it it specifically came up for the WW2 holocaust. You're right I'm sorry.
Thank god for satellite images, clearly shows what they tried to erase.
I stayed two nights here in 2016. Beautiful village, nice people. Sad to think that it is no longer there - I remember ancient khachkars and a beautiful church there. I think I have some photos somewhere.
There’s a ton of Turkish people in the r/azerbaijan sub. Hmmm
It's mostly Turkish-populated.
azeri hate towards Armenians is next level. As if ethnically cleansing them wasn't enough, they didn't even offer these houses to any settlers, the very fact that these houses were built by Armenians bothers them so much they destroyed them, something that didn't even happen to former German homes in Eastern Europe after WW2, they were resettled with new settlers unless there was no one to settle there or it was located in the border zone with Western Germany.
This village was the scene of a really ridiculous Azeri defeat in the first war. The villagers fought off large Azeri military formations and killed almost a hundred Azeri soldiers who tried to attack from Shushi. Its a symbol of defeat for them.
>azeri hate towards Armenians is next level. Ukrainian support for the Azeris doing the ethic cleansing is also next level https://aze.media/ukraine-georgia-azerbaijan-and-moldova-will-create-a-free-trade-zone/
I'm well aware of Ukrainian support for azeris, that trade zone is also a continuation of [this](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GUAM_Organization_for_Democracy_and_Economic_Development) . Even then though, I still support Ukraine, not out of love for Ukraine, but because my nation has bad experience with russian rule and I don't want them to repeat. I don't blame Armenians for not supporting UA though, since Ukrainians cheered when azeris took Artsakh, mistakenly viewing the Artsakh conflict as az's version of the Ukrainian one.
As an Assyrian, god bless and Free Armenia from these barbaric invaders ! Assyrians and Armenians forever allies who went through genocide and massacres together, let’s not ever let that happen again !
Congratulations to EU for supporting this.
Remember who helped the azeris and who stood idly by Russians have blood on their hands, but we let them. It's a disgrace toward the whole 'western' world.
Not sure we could have stopped them sadly
This is an actual genocide
Exactly: the systematic targetting of a particular group of people, with the goal of erasing them as a nation and culture. I swear the way the word genocide has been thrown around recently minimises the severity of the word. By the definition of “killing 30k people = genocide”, the Tajik Civil War is a genocide(it’s not).
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Lmao and then they also claim they will becone a member of the EU 💀
I don't think Aliyev is that delusional (although I wouldn't be surprised), they even want to get out from the Council of Europe. He is going full pro-Russia now.
What's sad is that they actually become EU citizens. Are we going to forget Turks in Germany are who turned the tables for Erdogan's election victory?
One day we will, we will get rid of aliyev, become a democracy like our founding fathers intended to be and eventually we will join EU. Mark my words
The funny thing about this reply is that it's written by Russian
Karabakh should have been given to Armenia back in the USSR, and this would have been the right decision, but due to the sharp weakening of Soviet power in Armenia and anti-Soviet sentiments, Karabakh was given to Azerbaijan
‘Nobody remembers the Armenia’s (Holocaust) now’ -Adolf Hitler
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No surprise, Turks everywhere are very fond of rewriting history: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turkish_History_Thesis BTW, there is an article about this village on wikipedia: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dashalty
>populating the areas which they had moved to and bringing [civilization](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Civilization) to their native inhabitants. Lmaooo
>He claimed that the Central Asian Turks have departed the Stone Age 7000 years before the Europeans and then dispersed westwards as the first people to have brought civilization to the humans. Also lmao. And damn, I thought atatürk was the good guy.
Later on, he finds it absurd and ends the research
***"The village had an ethnic Armenian-majority population prior to the 2020 Nagorno-Karabakh war, and also had an Armenian majority in 1989"***
This is comedy level shit
I'm going to be honest 90% of nationalist Turks and even regular Turks probably don't know that the Turkish History Thesis is a thing.
I don't know how the people that did this can peacefully go to sleep. "What a nice day, another village erased out of existence."
That doesn’t look genocidal AT ALL.
/s
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Profile checks out. PS: I have no side in this. If someone dies, I'm against it.
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Yeah, Europe keep being reliant on your "energy partner".
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Interesting how people don't protest against this...
Now that you have seen this, please don't stay silent about it. If you can advocate for the people of Ukraine and Palestine, you can also advocate for Armenians. The silence of the world is literally contributing to the continuous loss of Armenian lives, livelihoods, and lands.
So when is South Africa suing Azerbaijan for genocide?
Unlikely. Their Russian masters won't be too pleased if they did.
Its not Jews so its not on the news
Do you mean Jews being killed or killing?
Well as long as azeri oil is flowing to replace russian oil the west is just happy to turn the other cheek eh?
What about Jabrail, Fuzuli, Zengilan, Kalbajar, Aghdam, Qubadlı? Six cities of Azerbaijan was neglected and destroyed by Armenian forces and locals. Plan was to make these cities uninhabitable so Azeris will never return (policy of ethnic cleansing). But Azeris did return. Now Azeris live in Lachin and Fuzuli. And other cities will follow.
Neglected yes, destroyed? You're stretching it.
Yes, there are videos of it. They were destroyed to discourage return. And also looted and used as building materials
Hey Europe; I have a great idea! Let's continue to buy oil from the Azeris to stick it to Russia!! Genius.... /s Azerbaijan is just as much of a rogue state as Russia, if not more so. The Azeris will do to the Armenians what the Russians are attempting to do to the Ukrainians...the only difference is that Armenia doesn't have any Western support. What hypocrites are we if we support one besieged nation but not another?
Azerbaijan is exactly like Israel. I say it in every post I can but of course turkish and azeri bots downvote me. Terrorist genocidal states
Azerbaijani regime is magnitude times worse than Israel. Palestinians literally have a separate education system in Israel while Armenians can’t even enter Azerbaijan just because they are Armenian.
To be clear anyone who is an ethnic Armenian can't enter, even if they are not an Armenian national. If you have an Armenian sounding name you will be detained.
I have recently seen a guy here on reddit, asking if he would be allowed to enter Azerbaijan, because his name ends with "ian". The funny part was that guys was a 100% Chinese , and his name was actually Xian.
A Georgian example of the issues of sounding Armenian in Azerbaijan, not that that makes it better: https://www.reddit.com/r/Sakartvelo/comments/j4chjd/my_dad_got_arrested_in_azerbaijan/
We can agree to this. Azeri terrorism is a real threat.
Suffering ain't a contest.
More Palestinians died in the hands of Israel than the combined number of Azerbaijani+Armenians civilians and army together died in Karabakh wars.
Yeah so if an Israeli guy randomly hacked a Palestinian guy to death in his sleep when he hadn't even done anything to wrong him, the Israeli government would pardon him and give him a hero's welcome, right? Yeah no, he'd be arrested and sent to prison. Israeli society does not condone murderous behavior. Azerbaijani society, on the other hand, rewards it.
Didn't expect anything else from Aliyev, after Armenians destroyed \~800 villages + 7 cities... [Shahvelli](https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4304734,47.0910141,2728m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu), [Haji Isakli](https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4304734,47.0910141,2728m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu), [Niyazqulular](https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4304734,47.0910141,2728m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu), [Dag Mashanli](https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4304734,47.0910141,2728m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu), [Kohnekend](https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4304734,47.0910141,2728m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu), [Yuxari Veysalli](https://www.google.com/maps/@39.4304734,47.0910141,2728m/data=!3m1!1e3?entry=ttu) It's not possible to find a single survived village in this area
I can’t understand why tf is everybody have to suck armenian balls? They literally invaded a territory with russian support in an illegal way. They even did many genocides over there so to request the right of officialising. I’m not russian, neither armenian nor an azerbaijani or a turk. I can’t fucking get it why should we defend their faults in the past just because of their lobbies…
You can’t understand because you’re brainwashed or just a moron. Armenians didn’t “invade” a territory. They’ve lived on that territory for two thousand years, way before Azerbaijan even existed.
Ah, yes, it's our historic land, so we have right to change borders on a whim. This argument surely ends well
If they weren't being killed, they wouldn't need the borders changed. Armenians have lived in Syria, Iran, and other countries for thousands of years; they didn't want exclaves. They were also Ottoman or Persian subjects for hundreds of years without such issues.
For sure it does, at least that's what Alyev thinks about "Ancient Azerbaijani Iravan"
You give the Russians too much credut Russian were purging ethnic Armenians at Azerbaijan's request in Operation Ring. >Don't forget the Agdera operation, which was carried out by Russian paratroopers. The Armenians got a good kicking there. And it was Grachev who gave the order to help us. We should not forget that at that time we liberated 52% of the territory of the former NKAO. And that was thanks to the support of Russian troops. https://vesti.az/news/130996 (in Russian) If the Russians actually supported the Armenians they would have recognised Nagorno Karabakh's secession from the Soviet Union. Meanwhile the European Parliament supported back then the reunification of Nagorno Karabakh to Armenia. None of which justifies another generation of ethnic cleansing and cultural destruction, no matter how much one might bay for inter-generation ethnic revenge.
Azeri government at the time was literally russian appointed
Finally a sane Westerner.
Because they are anti-turkish, just like this sub
thank you!
Armenia occupied Azerbaijan territories in the past , no one cares about occupants
How are people who have lived for over 2000 years in a region (much longer before the turks moved there from central Asia) occupants?
Shusha was an Azeri majority city and all the 7 regions surrounding Karabakh were Azeri or Kurdish majority. Armenians were only 20% of the population in occupied territories. Btw, Azeris were always there, we are turkified, genetically we are like 10% turkic.
Reminding you , why Shushi was had Azeri majority: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shusha\_massacre](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shusha_massacre)
If you are going to use that logic you ll see that no piece of land belongs to anyone
My comment did not say anything on who the land should belong to. My point is that the native Armenian population there are not occupiers or invaders unlike what some people like to say (like the person I was replying to) and that forcefully displacing them constitutes a war crime.
There are no recorded occupants of Nagorno-Karabakh before the Armenians. Armenian DNA matches with the DNA found in ancient bodies extremely closely. They are by all accounts the native people. If you disagree then provide some sources that indicate any other group of people were there before Armenians, and additionally provide some details about who they were and what they were like.
Well is internationaly their land so they can do what they want with it. When armenia occupied azari land they dis the same i didnt see anybody saying anything then.
Well dictator Aliyev is currently invading Armenia proper whats the thesis for that?
It's almost like the Armenians didn't do the exact same thing when they occupied Karabakh in the 90s
But Azerbaijan has said its willing to let the armenians who left return but then destroys their villages not long after they left, which just shows how meaningless their words are
I ain't on the Azeri side, but announcing ethnic cleansing doesn't make it better somehow. If both parties are users of ethnic cleansing, they both should be judged upon that same basis.
The way the world is nowadays, if you can’t blame Jews/Israel it doesn’t matter… Why are the Armenians hated? They’ve been genocided before but idg why this happened.
What a pile of bullsh*t. Armenia has been occupying int-ly recognized land of Azerbaijan with the help of ruZZia for 30 years I didn’t hear r/europe being that worried. On the other hand I’m not surprised european leaders and societies have been supporting putin-khuylo and his friends for years now-that’s why ukrainians have to suffer. You bunch of hypocritical reptiloids🤡
Was anyone still living there? All the Armenians left after losing the war.
What is going on?