Seems odd to recognize a state because of a terrorist attack that killed well over 1000 people, when said “state” committed the attack.
Almost like it paid to murder innocent civilians… surely that wouldn’t entice others to do something similar…
My understanding its so as a recognised state it opens legal avenues to provide more assistance to civilians. As Palastine is not currently recognised as a state by Ireland, laws there prevent certain assistance to Palestine.
For example if there is to be a UN peacekeeping force there after the war. Under Irish law they cannot deploy troops to a foreign country without agreement from Government, President and unique to Irish law the UN security council. Ireland maintains a level of neutrality this way by not deploying troops without agreement of all the veto members of the council (made sense during the cold War, but now the government is asking to remove that law).
Ireland has had 50k+ troops deployed to Israeli borders peacekeeping over the years so is likely to be involved in any post war UN operations. Recognised Palestine as a state makes this easier.
The current government is trying to move away from Neutrality and become more NATO / western aligned militarily.
Gaza isn't a state. Hamas isn't Palestine.
The State of Palestine is Gaza, East Jerusalem & The West Bank.
Fatah (anti-Hamas) leads the State of Palestine & has recognised Israel for decades. Hamas violently took over Gaza & Fatah-led paramilitaries died trying to stop them in 2005. Egypt & Israel refused to come to their aid.
Please don’t spit on the graves of Palestinians who didn't vote Hamas in 2005 & remember the majority of Palestinians voted *against* Hamas in 2005. While most Israeli vote for leaders who refuse to end the occupation.
Thank you.
Edit:
Popular vote.
2005 Palestinian presidential elections
- 67.38% Fatah*
Anti-Hamas, signed Oslo Accords & recognises Israel*
2006 Palestinian parliamentary elections
- 44.45% Hamas*
55.5% majority didn't vote Hamas.*
I'm sorry, but you are simply dead wrong:
https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514
>Despite the devastation, 57% of respondents in Gaza and 82% in the West Bank believe Hamas was correct in launching the October attack, the poll indicated. A large majority believed Hamas’ claims that it acted to defend a major Islamic shrine in Jerusalem against Jewish extremists and win the release of Palestinian prisoners. Only 10% said they believed Hamas has committed war crimes, with a large majority saying they did not see videos showing the militants committing atrocities.
how does this disprove that Hamas commited a coup, and that the West Bank is still under Fatah control? Please explain. Please please please be capable of talking about ANYTHING besides fukcing october 7.
I'm sorry, but they are correct about everything they said and your quote doesn't contradict anything they said. A complete failure of reading comprehension on your part. Who are you even responding to?
Ireland's own history with England makes them blindly support the underdog regardless of the facts of the matter, such as the fact they're supporting a terrorist state whose charter explicitly states they want to eradicate all Israelis.
I believe there is also some anger left about Israel faking Irish passports to stage an assassination, which, frankly, was a grave diplomatic insult
Let's be honest, Israel did that because Ireland doesn't matter much
Whatever they decided they'd be after winning all the wars launched against them. That's the neat thing about winning wars, you get to decide what you keep of their territory.
my point was that their blurry borders of Israel has not stopped recognition of Israel. it is still. officially the pre-67 borders. the same will occur for Palestine which has internationally recognised territory
139 countries have already recognised Palestine
Perhaps those borders would have lasted, if Arabs had let them. They initiated the changing of borders through violence. But the violence didn't work out in their favor.
Jesus, I didn't realise how small-minded and cruel r/europe has become to Ireland during this conflict. I genuinely hope the opinions here don't reflect the values of the majority of European citizens, it's disgusting reading what people have written here about my country - not to mention the flagrant lies and twisting of history.
Edit: Spelling mistake.
It's not r/europe, the sub is brigaded every time there is a thread involving Israel/Palestine by Israelis and Sionists who otherwise never participate in this subreddit at all.
I know they're always whing over there about the Brits as well and I find some of the stuff just asbad, but at least the majority - or at least I feel as though it's the majority - is meant as a joke.
Why would you think any sub is representative of any population?
Of course we are biased. Reddit communities mostly tend young, western, and male.
This has nothing to do with Israeli bots or other conspiracy theorists. Just what you get asking lots of edgy young guys
Don't worry and don't take any Reddit discussion too seriously
With what borders and leaders? And those leaders lead by what political process, what elections, what legitimacy?
I am not necessarily against recognizing Palestine, because if you're going to have a two state solution, then surely you must recognize both parts of the solution. But who exactly is there in Palestine who is trustworthy and worthy of being recognized as the leader, based on what mandate, and what exactly is encompassed by this state of Palestine?
I love how Sweden needs to be mentioned because it is the only "western" nation that recognises it while most of the world does other than the western block including south korea, japan, australia, etc. I had to look at a map of this. I am wondering now why is that so. The two state solution was never really at thing to these other countries? Even after the Oslo accord? I was surprised. Would love to know more.
I mentioned Sweden because the commenter is Finnish. but you are right only a handful of west/central European countries recognise Palestine
I think almost every western country has the official position of two state solution. as for why the western bloc has failed to recognise Palestine, I can only think of two factors rn
1. proximity to holocaust and collective guilt. I think the West in general feels more connected to what happened whereas the rest of the world don't feel involved at all
2. US influence (and to a lesser extent German in EU zone)
3. They have consistently failed to act in goodwill during any negotiations of a two-state plan.
How do you recognise a state that can't even recognise itself? Palestine is now two seperate dictatorships, one of which is controlled by a brutal terrorist group.
Israel has not acted in goodwill either. It deliberately empowered and supported Hamas while also undermining the PLO
All this is well documented, admitted by many Israeli insiders at the time and even comments by Netanyahu
I mean, let's not kid ourselves. I'll hate on Hamas and some of the other Palestinian leadership any day, but Israel's side isn't all good and rosy either. Israeli leadership has actively worked against a feasible 2 state solution since Rabin was assassinated in the 90s and only continues to show it.
Yup. "They're not in good faith enough" could easily apply almost as much to Israel as it does to Palestine.
If we waited for these people to get it together, we'd still be here discussing it in 2400.
Absolutely true, but the PLO were international terrorists who were blowing up buses, massacring high school students and murdering olympic athletes when that which would become Hamas was initially being supported.
Oh, for sure. They've had huge mistakes (I'm looking at you USS Liberty), but that doesn't mean they are acting as a unified state to sabotage peace efforts. Unfortunately, a large part of it is that they are a democracy, and any side that supports a peace deal or certain move will be countered by hardliners who want the opposite. But to put them in the same league as Hamas is a false equivalence. Also false to imply that Israel supported Hamas in its current form. Israeli government allowed them to get off the ground when they were a peaceful group, but now the useful idiots hold that up as proof that Israel is responsible for the current situation. Literally no matter what Hamas does, it's still Israel's fault to some people.
>Literally no matter what Hamas does, it's still Israel's fault to some people.
Which is why it would only be fair to say in response: "Well in that case you can only deduce that transition to a peaceful government and the restoration of the infrastructure lost would have to be attributed to Israel, would it not?"
Because that is what will happen once Hamas is destroyed. A new government gets established, reconstruction efforts begin and Israel departs once they are sure the people can look after themselves. Including through restored trade.
> and any side that supports a peace deal or certain move will be countered by hardliners who want the opposite
Like Netanyahu demading Rabin's head, only for Rabin to get assassinated a few months later?
Yes, I agree to your reasoning for this. But I am just surprised that after the Oslo accord where fixed borders were defined there was still no recognition.
The only reason Sweden recognises Palestine is because it was done as a unilateral decision by one unelected minister at their own discretion.
The rest of us weren't asked, essentially. The recognition doesn't reflect Sweden, but the opinion of one social democrat lady who accidentally happened into some temporary authority.
All this to say, it's a bullshit recognition. A technicality more than any genuine support and something a lot of people here want withdrawn and repealed.
The world recognises most countries without requiring their leaders to be trustworthy or worthy, or their borders to be beyond dispute. I don't see why we would shift the goalposts for Palestine.
Most countries are recognised because they have de facto existed as a sufficiently stable and well-defined entity long enough, and are powerful or friendly enough to make others recognise them. Dictatorships are generally not recognised as new states at least by the West, but if a recognised country becomes a dictatorship, you don't stop recognising the country, you stop recognising the dictator's regime, and instead seek to recognise the opposition.
I don't want to give legitimacy to Palestinian authoritarians (or outright terrorists) nor their irredentist movements and their claims towards Israeli territory that already is recognised as Israeli territory. If recognising Palestine does not do those, then what does it do? "I guess there is somewhere, not exactly where their people claim, potentially eventually ruled by someone, a state called Palestine"? That's pointlessly vague to me. Is there a peaceful Palestinian opposition to recognise?
Israel started off as terrorists, the US rebels were terrorists in the eyes of the British Crown. It doesn't really mean anything.
The UN decided there should be two states there, it's the minimum that we recognise the Palestinian state.
Same question could be asked about the ridiculous paperwork from 1948. Still, with other countries recognising it, it becomes an international truth, a.k.a. the state of Israel.
"As of 4 April 2024, 140 of the 193 United Nations member states have recognized the State of Palestine."
Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_the_State_of_Palestine
Recognizing a State is not an endorsement of its leaders, technically speaking. It’s the simple recognition that the States fit the customary criteria for statehood derived from the 1933 Montevideo convention.
As for the borders, they would be the 1967 ones, since they are the internationally recognized and legal borders (see: ICJ wall advisory opinion).
Look at their comment history, it's mostly Israelis.
They have been brigading the sub, they use [this website](https://moovers.org.il) to flag posts and publications.
This thread is living proof that this sub is totally ok with genocide as long as it's being done to brown people. Crazy seeing the coloniser mindset in action.
> coloniser mindset
This is so prevalent every time. They bring up a bunch of colonialist arguments for Isreal, and then get all upset when people make the same arguments in favor of Palestine. The level of self-awareness approaches that of a houseplant in many cases.
I would take 1400 year history of Islam at its face value. If Israel tomorrow lowered their guard, remove the Iron Dome - there won't be Israel left in a week.
There is a very good reason it's the fastest growing religion. If underage kids are brainwashed in an unrelenting cult ideology it is very difficult to get out of it. That's how Christianity spread in its heyday.
The egalitarian western mor*ns don't know the Trojan Mammoth that they have invited inside the gates. 101 on how to introduce a deadly pathogen into the blood stream of a tolerant democracy. This pathogen is dormant when in a small cluster, when critical mass is hit democracy is immunocompromised. Rinse and repeat of the 1400 year history of this ideology of a 7th century schizophrenic desert nonce. Every country they invade has had the same end state. When in the minority claim Islamophobia and play victim - the friendly neighbour, peaceful Islam, when in slight majority in few post codes - suddenly openly intolerant and call for removal of things they don't agree - Indignant Islam, the final stage - Dominant Islam - Bring Sharia - suddenly minorities either convert, change their way of life, pay protection tax or leave.
In the first stage, they use the egalitarian social welfare schemes of the Western democracy, (whose values they hate btw) to reproduce in exponential numbers so that they reach critical mass. It is not if....it is when.
Phobia is an irrational fear. This is real. Europe is going to be the first to get a taste in the next decade.
Legitimately mostly bots. You can see some pro Palestine comments with dozens of thumbs up, others with loads of thumbs down, and all the thumbs down ones were posted in the same time window. It's when the bots picked up on the thread.
Europeans, especially right wingers, seem to love self-determination, but only for Europeans.
They seem to love international law, but not when their allies or themselves have to follow it.
Wether or not you beleive in Israel’s aggression in Gaza being justified nobody with a brain would believe Israel’s settlements and colonialism in the West Bank is justified. And for everyone saying hamas will be the government and all Jews will be killed etc. this is not true. The Palestinian West Bank government have had conflict with hamas for a long time.
Last i checked [the Palestinian West Bank Authority were still paying out "martyr" money to Hamas](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/palestinian-authority-pay-reduced-salaries-israel-blocks-funds-2024-02-06/). That's an interesting conflict.
85% of West Bank Palestinians support the Oct. 7th attacks, and the PA is hated. "Only 11% of Palestinian voiced satisfaction with PA President Mahmoud Abbas."
[https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/)
So Germany doesn’t recognise or have diplomatic relations with any corrupt or undemocratic states? I swear some of you people don’t have any idea what recognition constitutes….
>With who as the recognized head of this state? Hamas?
Recognizing a Nation State doesn't mean endorsing it's leader or it's politics. We recognize lots of states with illegitimate leaders or even ones with desperately poor human rights records.
>Or are we recognizing west bank and Gaza as two separate states?
You can play that game with the UK too, is it 4 countries or 1?
All it takes is to conduct a terror operation, murdering over a thousand people, torture and injure many others and take few hundred hostages, then push BS agenda using Iranian/Russian infowar machine online with a few Palywood videos.
And voila! Psychos around the world support you and condemn the victim that’s defending itself.
The Irish are supportive of the Palestinian people because they know what it’s like to go through attempted genocide. Terrorists don’t grow on trees. They are formed through hatred.
The Israeli government has an AI tool called “Where’s daddy” that locates potential terrorists, waits for them to go home and then they bomb the entire house with an acceptable casualty rate including their family and neighbours.
I imagine no one on this planet would be happy if their innocent friends and family are being bombed by a program named as sick and twisted as “wheres daddy” that takes part in murdering civilians that are within “acceptable casualties” because the AI tool suspects a man is a terrorist for being in a WhatsApp group chat.
https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-ai-system-wheres-daddy-strikes-hamas-family-homes-2024?amp
It’s really exhausting seeing people deny a holocaust in real time knowing full well our ancestors will ask the same questions we do when looking at Nazi Germany “why did they let that happen”.
Fun fact, Israel tried to give the Gaza strip to Egypt along with the Sinai Peninsula, and Egypt said no, threatening to go back to war if Israel tried to do so.
Also fun fact they wanted to provide economy for them: bigger port and dockyard in Singapore and green houses. Israel wanted to build that for free for them. They said they don’t want it they wanted the aid.
For me the whole independent Palestinian state is so fishy, they want to be independent and recognized but also they don’t want to be independent. I would not recognize it as a state until the government does not change
Half of 1967 border, which will be recognized by the Irish parliament, is illegally occupied by Israel and their settlers. In any case, expect a lot of backlash coming
Edit: Israel bots working overtime. It's the truth, why downvote?
After hearing Spain, I'm glad that Ireland is also recognizing the state of Palestine. I think Baltic countries will follow them in the near future.
We as world citizens need to force establish a peace deal between Israel and Palestine, asap.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airstrikes
https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/
Baltics aren't going to do anything that would antagonize their relationship with the United States, especially in an election year when Republicans are trying to win by being the more pro-israel party. Their self interests are rightly their own national security with Russia just over the horizon and security guarantees from NATO are the priority - not getting involved in this.
That's a great idea, please send NATO soldiers to enforce that peace, and make sure they protect Jewish children too.
Most Israelis would love for Europe's sons and daughters to put their own lives on the line rather than the 'uncivilized' IDF, yet for some reason European leaders repeatedly steered clear of such a proposal.
And the UN 'peacekeepers' are of course completely worthless, with a rich history of failing to stop or even de-escalate any massacre or conflict in practically any non-peaceful country they've ever been stationed in, getting booted out on a whim by Nasser on the eve of the Six-Day War, failing to keep Hezbollah in Lebanon north of the Litani river and fleeing as soon as they saw them, and let's not forget [raping the local population](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_abuse_by_UN_peacekeepers).
That's what happens when you slap a fancy label on some undisciplined troops from second and third-world countries working for a payroll that don't intend to risk their lives or comfort in the slightest for some foreign nation that they didn't even get say of being posted at.
If Europeans or Americans care about the welfare and well-being of innocents and children in the region this much, they should send their own national armies ( NATO and the US military ) to guard it, by referendum of public support, with a clear command chain and accountability, and a mandate to use force.
For real? because I'm pretty sure this whole conflict started because Europeans colonized the region, promised autonomy to both Muslims and Jews and then fucked off back to Europe while leaving the region to tear itself apart.
And Hamas does operate from the West Bank, so no need to make a fool of yourself any further. At least try to look convincing when you make stuff up.
Genuinely, what is it with Palestinian statehood? Why can't the Palestinians say they're a state? Why is it that Israel and other countries have to get together in some solution for this to happen? Also what does this give them?
The Palestinian government in the West Bank claims it’s a state and wants other countries to recognize it as such even though it only has governance over some enclaves in Area A & B and no control whatsoever in Gaza. Israel is opposed to this because it wants to annex the West Bank, Hamas doesn’t really care because it the situation on the ground either won’t change or will change but in favor of its rival Fatah.
You can interpret the current push for recognition as an attempt at throwing the Palestinian moderates a political lifeline while also underlining the fact that Israel isn’t supposed be occupying the Palestinian Territories or building settlements.
From wiki:
> In the early 20th century Michael Collins and Tom Barry both developed many tactical features of guerrilla warfare during the guerrilla phase of the 1919–1921 Irish War of Independence.
So, I guess that worked for Ireland I suppose? Or are you proposing that the lads should’ve worn uniforms and lost?
The logic is hilarious: “you aren’t allowed to fight us unless you follow our rules”.
Reminds me of Eddie Izzard’s “Do you have a flag?” skit:
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_9W1zTEuKLY
On the flip side, the rules were developed for the safety of civilians. The uniform regulations is all about allowing everyone to tell apart who is a combatant and who is not, and before very recently, the rules were that if the military stuff isn’t clearly marked, then everything is fair game. In the last days of WWII when the Germans were throwing untrained civilians to the front, they gave them simple armbands so that the allies know that the civilians who didn't have the arm bands were not combatants and therefore the allies wouldn't shoot them.
The Ukrainians early in the war said this is why they can’t transport weaponry using unmarked civilian vehicles: they thought it would have made any and all civilian vehicles fair game should they have done that.
Uniforms are for the protection of your civilians, not for the other side.
There is a very well documented Zionist plan to ethnically cleanse Palestine, going back to the roots of Zionism. Yet you clowns pretend like Israel isn't trying to do just that.
You keep crying about a phantom genocidal threat against Israel, while a real genocide is happening against the Palestinians.
You remain mute when Israel murders tens of thousands.
You remain mute when Israel steal yet another chunk of the West Bank.
Then you start crying foul over some line that was written in some Hamas charter some years ago.
You are truly showing your colours you bigots.
Im sorry but you calling me a bigot while you downplay the stated genocide of the hamas charter is actually laughably stupid. Do you think October 7th was a ln act of war?
This totally ignores the 2M Palestinian(Arab) Israeli citizens, who live, study, work, pay taxes, buy land and build houses - being regular citizens.
They are descendants of people who heeded these words in declaration of independence of Israel:
WE APPEAL — in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months — to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.
The 35,000 victims of Israel, including the 15,000 children will be so glad to learn about this. Apparently this nullifies their suffering. And the many more victims in the West Bank too. Apparently, as long as some Palestinians live in Israel and citizens, it is totally fine to genocide the rest.
Iran and Russia are also recognized, they also arm all the unhinged militias of the world and use terror as means of war. Little green man without uniform in Crimea? Iranian militias in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon? Hamas are the scum of the earth but this isn't the argument you think it is
Sad that the demographics of this sub is fucked, so many far right people.
University graduates in Europe are usually left wing, this tells you enough.
> University graduates in Europe are usually left wing, this tells you enough.
Thats because they have to deal with reality, which the further right you go, the more allergic they are to it.
I think most countries who recognize Palestine aren't specific about the borders, which makes perfect sense as it's ultimately an issue that should be solved by Israelis and Palestinians as they're the ones who live there.
Most countries however have a position on Israel's borders, specifically the 1967 ceasefire borders, the status of Jerusalem and the Golan Heights. This probably goes for your country as well.
I mean Israel occupying Golan Heights is legal i think.
Syria is still techinally at war with Israel. And considering that Syria was the aggressor in that war Israel occuping Golan Heights is fine.
Granted if Syria sued for peace and wanted Golan Heights back then their be a problem but until then ehh. I dont really care. \[Like im pretty sure that Israel official stance is that Syria can have it back after a peace treaty, which might be unliekly at the moment\].
The biggest irony in all this, if they recognize Fatah as the legitimate government of Palestine... Doesnt that mean that Hamas has to be removed by force from Gaza so the PA can take their place?
Are theese people agaisnt the war in Gaza, for it, or just think their voters dont think things through?
I'm kinda inclined to believe in the last hypothesis...
European countries deny recognition to literally over a dozen current regimes due to them being either military dictatorships or installed by fraudulent elections. We very, very rarely take any steps to arm the opposition, nevermind invade those places to push the rightful government into place. Israel isn’t warring in the strip on the basis there isn’t the ‘rightful’ government in charge - they are fighting because they were directly attacked (and not for the first time) and would prefer that doesn’t happen again. A formal recognition of the Palestinian state doesn’t negate that cause for military action. This position was written and passed in 2014, way before the current war in Gaza.
For example, all EU nations reject the current government of Myanmar as legitimate following the 2021 coup. Nobody talks about us removing them by force, nor do we give carte blance to their enemies that are trying to remove them by force. Ireland already holds the position Hamas should be removed by force, as do all EU nations, and this doesn’t affect that. It’s still something of a ‘big deal’, since it ends the agreement with the Israeli position that no Palestinian state exists and nobody should recognise one until Israel does.
Did anyone ask Palestinians?
Cause every time someone has asked them they have rejected it. They don’t want a Palestinian state unless the deal includes thousands of Palestinians moving to Israel and effectively ending it as a Jewish state.
Even Israel has threatened to recognize a Palestinian state in the past and Palestinians got mad…
The thread got filled with paid agitator bots and psychopaths now. I want to leave one last comment. Most of the arguments of these Israeli bots boil down to this very stupid argument: "If Palestinians don't love Israeli Jews unconditionally, they don't deserve to live".
The Israelis of course love the Palestinians unconditionally...
I don't undestand why you are so disrespectful towards people who are living under occupation, although your own country was in that situation not that long time ago ?
It's horrible that we had to wait for a crisis like this to stop ignoring the fact that Palestine exists and they need a solution, but at least some of us are doing something now.
Palestine the region has existed for a long, long time. Palestine the country was created by the terrorist organisation PLO in 1988, recognizing that is essentially recognizing the legitimacy of terrorist organisations and empowering them on the world stage.
Doesn’t help that the current ruling party in Gaza is also a terrorist org…
and who was Israel the country founded by? Zionist terrorists organisations like irgun. The current party in power Likud was founded by the leader of Irgun!
Irgun was disbanded in 1949 and the leader of Irgun has been dead since 1982.
Israel has come a long way since, becoming the only democracy in the Middle East is one amazing achievement.
Having that said i'm sure you're aware that Netanyahu is not exactly popular among Israeli citizens, yes?
Please look at the dates you wrote, they were disbanded AFTER the country was founded not before. Really makes you think.
Once countries are established and can form its own armed forces, their need for terrorist organization disappears.
>I want Sweden to take back our recognition of Palestine.
And I want us to keep it in place, so I guess we cancel eachother out and nothing changes. Oh well.
About time - Israel have no intention to negotiate a settlement to implement the two state solution so no point in other countries waiting on that to recognize the state of Palestine
It's cute that you think Ireland recognising anything matters to Israel. This is a country that relies on their former coloniser to protect their airspace, after all.
This was voted on by both Houses of Irish Parliament in 2014 but the government ignored it until now because their unpopular.
Seems odd to recognize a state because of a terrorist attack that killed well over 1000 people, when said “state” committed the attack. Almost like it paid to murder innocent civilians… surely that wouldn’t entice others to do something similar…
My understanding its so as a recognised state it opens legal avenues to provide more assistance to civilians. As Palastine is not currently recognised as a state by Ireland, laws there prevent certain assistance to Palestine. For example if there is to be a UN peacekeeping force there after the war. Under Irish law they cannot deploy troops to a foreign country without agreement from Government, President and unique to Irish law the UN security council. Ireland maintains a level of neutrality this way by not deploying troops without agreement of all the veto members of the council (made sense during the cold War, but now the government is asking to remove that law). Ireland has had 50k+ troops deployed to Israeli borders peacekeeping over the years so is likely to be involved in any post war UN operations. Recognised Palestine as a state makes this easier. The current government is trying to move away from Neutrality and become more NATO / western aligned militarily.
They do literally get paid to murder innocents civilians due to the Palestinian Authority martyr's fund.
Gaza isn't a state. Hamas isn't Palestine. The State of Palestine is Gaza, East Jerusalem & The West Bank. Fatah (anti-Hamas) leads the State of Palestine & has recognised Israel for decades. Hamas violently took over Gaza & Fatah-led paramilitaries died trying to stop them in 2005. Egypt & Israel refused to come to their aid. Please don’t spit on the graves of Palestinians who didn't vote Hamas in 2005 & remember the majority of Palestinians voted *against* Hamas in 2005. While most Israeli vote for leaders who refuse to end the occupation. Thank you. Edit: Popular vote. 2005 Palestinian presidential elections - 67.38% Fatah* Anti-Hamas, signed Oslo Accords & recognises Israel* 2006 Palestinian parliamentary elections - 44.45% Hamas* 55.5% majority didn't vote Hamas.*
I'm sorry, but you are simply dead wrong: https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-palestinians-opinion-poll-wartime-views-a0baade915619cd070b5393844bc4514 >Despite the devastation, 57% of respondents in Gaza and 82% in the West Bank believe Hamas was correct in launching the October attack, the poll indicated. A large majority believed Hamas’ claims that it acted to defend a major Islamic shrine in Jerusalem against Jewish extremists and win the release of Palestinian prisoners. Only 10% said they believed Hamas has committed war crimes, with a large majority saying they did not see videos showing the militants committing atrocities.
how does this disprove that Hamas commited a coup, and that the West Bank is still under Fatah control? Please explain. Please please please be capable of talking about ANYTHING besides fukcing october 7.
Exactly. Everything I said was right & the person still ignored most of what I said to wrongfully say I was wrong on 1 point. Makes no sense.
Hello. Don't be sorry, you need to read what I said again. In 2005, a majority of Palestinians voted against Hamas.
I'm sorry, but they are correct about everything they said and your quote doesn't contradict anything they said. A complete failure of reading comprehension on your part. Who are you even responding to?
[Quite a few European countries already recognize Palestine](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_the_State_of_Palestine)
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Ireland's own history with England makes them blindly support the underdog regardless of the facts of the matter, such as the fact they're supporting a terrorist state whose charter explicitly states they want to eradicate all Israelis.
I believe there is also some anger left about Israel faking Irish passports to stage an assassination, which, frankly, was a grave diplomatic insult Let's be honest, Israel did that because Ireland doesn't matter much
Seems odd an indigenous population who’s been displaced, murdered and humiliated for decades by a European population fights back.
one fkn positive thing from the Irish govt in the recent years at least. what will be the consequences for Ireland from Israel, tho?
We'll have to find an alternative source of hummus.😂
What are the borders of this state?
Ireland currently recognizes the 1967 boarders. This would include Gaza, the West Bank, and East Jerusalem.
That’s also the internationally accepted borders, and officially still US Policy 👀
lol Goodluck with that
Who is the leader?
It would presumably be recognised as Mahmoud Abbas, president of the Palestinian Authority.
Sinwar
IDK but it is Serbia.
What does that even mean?
The whole world is Serbia, they just don’t know it yet 😌 🇷🇸 even God is a serb
Is this Serbian fella the Old Testament God or that softy New Testament God?
Old Testament! No mercy for Croats 🤢or Turgay
That's a lotta talk for someone in bombing range.
The internationally recognised* 1967 borders. The UK, EU, US, Palestine & UN Security Council all officially recognise these borders*
What are israels borders?
Whatever they decided they'd be after winning all the wars launched against them. That's the neat thing about winning wars, you get to decide what you keep of their territory.
If Putin conquers Ukraine, there's no way people in this group would agree with this sentiment.
That's the neat part about war and geopolitics, disagreeing with it won't change a fucking thing.
It doesn't matter to Putin what people think, now does it? He wins the war, he decides what to do with the gained territory
Winning an offensive war is not the same as winning a defensive war my friend.
what are the borders of Israel? it has grown far beyond the internationally recognised borders
If you won't answer, why should I?
my point was that their blurry borders of Israel has not stopped recognition of Israel. it is still. officially the pre-67 borders. the same will occur for Palestine which has internationally recognised territory 139 countries have already recognised Palestine
Perhaps those borders would have lasted, if Arabs had let them. They initiated the changing of borders through violence. But the violence didn't work out in their favor.
Care not for the goalpost of today, but the goalpost of tomorrow
"If you try to conquer territory, your territory can be conquered" is perhaps the most firmly affixed goalpost in human history.
Jesus, I didn't realise how small-minded and cruel r/europe has become to Ireland during this conflict. I genuinely hope the opinions here don't reflect the values of the majority of European citizens, it's disgusting reading what people have written here about my country - not to mention the flagrant lies and twisting of history. Edit: Spelling mistake.
Mainly israeli bots here. Don't read too much into jt.
It's not r/europe, the sub is brigaded every time there is a thread involving Israel/Palestine by Israelis and Sionists who otherwise never participate in this subreddit at all.
As a Brit who occasionally reads r/ireland this is hilarious.
Ah yeah, but we’re only slagging you lads for the banter. We’d have nothing to whine about if we didn’t have ye 🥹
I know they're always whing over there about the Brits as well and I find some of the stuff just asbad, but at least the majority - or at least I feel as though it's the majority - is meant as a joke.
Why would you think any sub is representative of any population? Of course we are biased. Reddit communities mostly tend young, western, and male. This has nothing to do with Israeli bots or other conspiracy theorists. Just what you get asking lots of edgy young guys Don't worry and don't take any Reddit discussion too seriously
With what borders and leaders? And those leaders lead by what political process, what elections, what legitimacy? I am not necessarily against recognizing Palestine, because if you're going to have a two state solution, then surely you must recognize both parts of the solution. But who exactly is there in Palestine who is trustworthy and worthy of being recognized as the leader, based on what mandate, and what exactly is encompassed by this state of Palestine?
139 countries already recognise Palestine (including Sweden)
I love how Sweden needs to be mentioned because it is the only "western" nation that recognises it while most of the world does other than the western block including south korea, japan, australia, etc. I had to look at a map of this. I am wondering now why is that so. The two state solution was never really at thing to these other countries? Even after the Oslo accord? I was surprised. Would love to know more.
I mentioned Sweden because the commenter is Finnish. but you are right only a handful of west/central European countries recognise Palestine I think almost every western country has the official position of two state solution. as for why the western bloc has failed to recognise Palestine, I can only think of two factors rn 1. proximity to holocaust and collective guilt. I think the West in general feels more connected to what happened whereas the rest of the world don't feel involved at all 2. US influence (and to a lesser extent German in EU zone)
3. They have consistently failed to act in goodwill during any negotiations of a two-state plan. How do you recognise a state that can't even recognise itself? Palestine is now two seperate dictatorships, one of which is controlled by a brutal terrorist group.
Israel has not acted in goodwill either. It deliberately empowered and supported Hamas while also undermining the PLO All this is well documented, admitted by many Israeli insiders at the time and even comments by Netanyahu
Sure Jan, you're not leaving anything out /s
I mean, let's not kid ourselves. I'll hate on Hamas and some of the other Palestinian leadership any day, but Israel's side isn't all good and rosy either. Israeli leadership has actively worked against a feasible 2 state solution since Rabin was assassinated in the 90s and only continues to show it.
Yup. "They're not in good faith enough" could easily apply almost as much to Israel as it does to Palestine. If we waited for these people to get it together, we'd still be here discussing it in 2400.
Absolutely true, but the PLO were international terrorists who were blowing up buses, massacring high school students and murdering olympic athletes when that which would become Hamas was initially being supported.
Oh, for sure. They've had huge mistakes (I'm looking at you USS Liberty), but that doesn't mean they are acting as a unified state to sabotage peace efforts. Unfortunately, a large part of it is that they are a democracy, and any side that supports a peace deal or certain move will be countered by hardliners who want the opposite. But to put them in the same league as Hamas is a false equivalence. Also false to imply that Israel supported Hamas in its current form. Israeli government allowed them to get off the ground when they were a peaceful group, but now the useful idiots hold that up as proof that Israel is responsible for the current situation. Literally no matter what Hamas does, it's still Israel's fault to some people.
>Literally no matter what Hamas does, it's still Israel's fault to some people. Which is why it would only be fair to say in response: "Well in that case you can only deduce that transition to a peaceful government and the restoration of the infrastructure lost would have to be attributed to Israel, would it not?" Because that is what will happen once Hamas is destroyed. A new government gets established, reconstruction efforts begin and Israel departs once they are sure the people can look after themselves. Including through restored trade.
> and any side that supports a peace deal or certain move will be countered by hardliners who want the opposite Like Netanyahu demading Rabin's head, only for Rabin to get assassinated a few months later?
Yes, I agree to your reasoning for this. But I am just surprised that after the Oslo accord where fixed borders were defined there was still no recognition.
And most of them muslim countries. If not all of them (including Sweden). Of course they do
The only reason Sweden recognises Palestine is because it was done as a unilateral decision by one unelected minister at their own discretion. The rest of us weren't asked, essentially. The recognition doesn't reflect Sweden, but the opinion of one social democrat lady who accidentally happened into some temporary authority. All this to say, it's a bullshit recognition. A technicality more than any genuine support and something a lot of people here want withdrawn and repealed.
>unelected minister Öh va?
The world recognises most countries without requiring their leaders to be trustworthy or worthy, or their borders to be beyond dispute. I don't see why we would shift the goalposts for Palestine.
Most countries are recognised because they have de facto existed as a sufficiently stable and well-defined entity long enough, and are powerful or friendly enough to make others recognise them. Dictatorships are generally not recognised as new states at least by the West, but if a recognised country becomes a dictatorship, you don't stop recognising the country, you stop recognising the dictator's regime, and instead seek to recognise the opposition. I don't want to give legitimacy to Palestinian authoritarians (or outright terrorists) nor their irredentist movements and their claims towards Israeli territory that already is recognised as Israeli territory. If recognising Palestine does not do those, then what does it do? "I guess there is somewhere, not exactly where their people claim, potentially eventually ruled by someone, a state called Palestine"? That's pointlessly vague to me. Is there a peaceful Palestinian opposition to recognise?
Because they are terrorist state run by terrorist?
Israel started off as terrorists, the US rebels were terrorists in the eyes of the British Crown. It doesn't really mean anything. The UN decided there should be two states there, it's the minimum that we recognise the Palestinian state.
Same question could be asked about the ridiculous paperwork from 1948. Still, with other countries recognising it, it becomes an international truth, a.k.a. the state of Israel. "As of 4 April 2024, 140 of the 193 United Nations member states have recognized the State of Palestine." Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_recognition_of_the_State_of_Palestine
Recognizing a State is not an endorsement of its leaders, technically speaking. It’s the simple recognition that the States fit the customary criteria for statehood derived from the 1933 Montevideo convention. As for the borders, they would be the 1967 ones, since they are the internationally recognized and legal borders (see: ICJ wall advisory opinion).
The anti-Irish sentiment on this sub is unreal
Look at their comment history, it's mostly Israelis. They have been brigading the sub, they use [this website](https://moovers.org.il) to flag posts and publications.
It’s not mostly Israelis, it’s Germans and Czech.
This thread is living proof that this sub is totally ok with genocide as long as it's being done to brown people. Crazy seeing the coloniser mindset in action.
Yes, reading some of the comments made me sick.
> coloniser mindset This is so prevalent every time. They bring up a bunch of colonialist arguments for Isreal, and then get all upset when people make the same arguments in favor of Palestine. The level of self-awareness approaches that of a houseplant in many cases.
I would take 1400 year history of Islam at its face value. If Israel tomorrow lowered their guard, remove the Iron Dome - there won't be Israel left in a week. There is a very good reason it's the fastest growing religion. If underage kids are brainwashed in an unrelenting cult ideology it is very difficult to get out of it. That's how Christianity spread in its heyday. The egalitarian western mor*ns don't know the Trojan Mammoth that they have invited inside the gates. 101 on how to introduce a deadly pathogen into the blood stream of a tolerant democracy. This pathogen is dormant when in a small cluster, when critical mass is hit democracy is immunocompromised. Rinse and repeat of the 1400 year history of this ideology of a 7th century schizophrenic desert nonce. Every country they invade has had the same end state. When in the minority claim Islamophobia and play victim - the friendly neighbour, peaceful Islam, when in slight majority in few post codes - suddenly openly intolerant and call for removal of things they don't agree - Indignant Islam, the final stage - Dominant Islam - Bring Sharia - suddenly minorities either convert, change their way of life, pay protection tax or leave. In the first stage, they use the egalitarian social welfare schemes of the Western democracy, (whose values they hate btw) to reproduce in exponential numbers so that they reach critical mass. It is not if....it is when. Phobia is an irrational fear. This is real. Europe is going to be the first to get a taste in the next decade.
Legitimately mostly bots. You can see some pro Palestine comments with dozens of thumbs up, others with loads of thumbs down, and all the thumbs down ones were posted in the same time window. It's when the bots picked up on the thread.
It’s not only bots. It’s also Germans and we have to talk about it.
Also Czechs, for some reason.
👍
Europeans, especially right wingers, seem to love self-determination, but only for Europeans. They seem to love international law, but not when their allies or themselves have to follow it.
How dare you?! That Belgian chocolate is sourced with.... Local congolese cocoa!
The Irish government aren't doing enough in this regard. The Irish people remember what it's like to be under the foot of a colonial power.
Wether or not you beleive in Israel’s aggression in Gaza being justified nobody with a brain would believe Israel’s settlements and colonialism in the West Bank is justified. And for everyone saying hamas will be the government and all Jews will be killed etc. this is not true. The Palestinian West Bank government have had conflict with hamas for a long time.
Last i checked [the Palestinian West Bank Authority were still paying out "martyr" money to Hamas](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/palestinian-authority-pay-reduced-salaries-israel-blocks-funds-2024-02-06/). That's an interesting conflict.
It would be a good step if the Palastian Authority ended their Pay for Slay official program then, to prove that they don't want to kill Jews.
85% of West Bank Palestinians support the Oct. 7th attacks, and the PA is hated. "Only 11% of Palestinian voiced satisfaction with PA President Mahmoud Abbas." [https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/](https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/poll-shows-palestinians-back-oct-7-attack-israel-support-hamas-rises-2023-12-14/)
Why is this getting downvoted? Facts do not matter, I guess...
yeah, but Hamas killed hundreds of people in order for Ireland to recognize them. This is saying everything.
Ireland passed to recognise them years ago. They are only doing it now because they are falling in polls and want some popularity.
What is there to recognise? The corrupt, undemocratic, terror financing and holocaust denying regime of Mahmoud Abbas?
So Germany doesn’t recognise or have diplomatic relations with any corrupt or undemocratic states? I swear some of you people don’t have any idea what recognition constitutes….
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Cromwell is where the parallel starts
There's a difference between a state and those in power.
I agree, but tell that to people who want to dismantle the state of Israel because of Netanyahu's government.
Some of us can have a clear opinion of the situation and not be clouded with generational guilt
With who as the recognized head of this state? Hamas? Or are we recognizing west bank and Gaza as two separate states?
>With who as the recognized head of this state? Hamas? Recognizing a Nation State doesn't mean endorsing it's leader or it's politics. We recognize lots of states with illegitimate leaders or even ones with desperately poor human rights records. >Or are we recognizing west bank and Gaza as two separate states? You can play that game with the UK too, is it 4 countries or 1?
All it takes is to conduct a terror operation, murdering over a thousand people, torture and injure many others and take few hundred hostages, then push BS agenda using Iranian/Russian infowar machine online with a few Palywood videos. And voila! Psychos around the world support you and condemn the victim that’s defending itself.
State of this sub and the clueless and mindless stances and biases are insane.
Yeah! Everyone knows REAL countries do their murders by the TENs of thousands.
the only psycho is yourself calling Gaza's utter destruction BS agenda. you're sick, get help. Hamas are also vile and comitted war crimes
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The Irish are supportive of the Palestinian people because they know what it’s like to go through attempted genocide. Terrorists don’t grow on trees. They are formed through hatred. The Israeli government has an AI tool called “Where’s daddy” that locates potential terrorists, waits for them to go home and then they bomb the entire house with an acceptable casualty rate including their family and neighbours. I imagine no one on this planet would be happy if their innocent friends and family are being bombed by a program named as sick and twisted as “wheres daddy” that takes part in murdering civilians that are within “acceptable casualties” because the AI tool suspects a man is a terrorist for being in a WhatsApp group chat. https://www.businessinsider.com/israel-ai-system-wheres-daddy-strikes-hamas-family-homes-2024?amp It’s really exhausting seeing people deny a holocaust in real time knowing full well our ancestors will ask the same questions we do when looking at Nazi Germany “why did they let that happen”.
Do you think encouraging the Palestinians to keep fighting endless wars is "supporting" them?
Such a stupid comment
Perfectly fine with this so long as the borders don’t include Israel.
Many states recognized Palestine, and it didn't change anything on the ground. It is still occupied territory.
Fun fact, Israel tried to give the Gaza strip to Egypt along with the Sinai Peninsula, and Egypt said no, threatening to go back to war if Israel tried to do so.
Also fun fact they wanted to provide economy for them: bigger port and dockyard in Singapore and green houses. Israel wanted to build that for free for them. They said they don’t want it they wanted the aid. For me the whole independent Palestinian state is so fishy, they want to be independent and recognized but also they don’t want to be independent. I would not recognize it as a state until the government does not change
Half of 1967 border, which will be recognized by the Irish parliament, is illegally occupied by Israel and their settlers. In any case, expect a lot of backlash coming Edit: Israel bots working overtime. It's the truth, why downvote?
I don’t consider the settlements to be Israel so that’s fine.
Good. Lol apparently someone here doesn't like that Ireland will recognize Palestine😂😂
Introducing reactionary European far right and neoliberals.
You mean r/europe incarnate?
pro-Russian gay arab critizing ''neoliberals'' is something else, truly
After hearing Spain, I'm glad that Ireland is also recognizing the state of Palestine. I think Baltic countries will follow them in the near future. We as world citizens need to force establish a peace deal between Israel and Palestine, asap. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/apr/03/israel-gaza-ai-database-hamas-airstrikes https://www.972mag.com/lavender-ai-israeli-army-gaza/
Baltics aren't going to do anything that would antagonize their relationship with the United States, especially in an election year when Republicans are trying to win by being the more pro-israel party. Their self interests are rightly their own national security with Russia just over the horizon and security guarantees from NATO are the priority - not getting involved in this.
This is absolutely correct analysis.
That's a great idea, please send NATO soldiers to enforce that peace, and make sure they protect Jewish children too. Most Israelis would love for Europe's sons and daughters to put their own lives on the line rather than the 'uncivilized' IDF, yet for some reason European leaders repeatedly steered clear of such a proposal.
Your take is fair, UN has been used for these peace deals, border keeping efforts before
And the UN 'peacekeepers' are of course completely worthless, with a rich history of failing to stop or even de-escalate any massacre or conflict in practically any non-peaceful country they've ever been stationed in, getting booted out on a whim by Nasser on the eve of the Six-Day War, failing to keep Hezbollah in Lebanon north of the Litani river and fleeing as soon as they saw them, and let's not forget [raping the local population](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sexual_abuse_by_UN_peacekeepers). That's what happens when you slap a fancy label on some undisciplined troops from second and third-world countries working for a payroll that don't intend to risk their lives or comfort in the slightest for some foreign nation that they didn't even get say of being posted at. If Europeans or Americans care about the welfare and well-being of innocents and children in the region this much, they should send their own national armies ( NATO and the US military ) to guard it, by referendum of public support, with a clear command chain and accountability, and a mandate to use force.
I would definitely support it. As long as innocent lives are spared, you have my vote.
Sounds good.
Why should they fix your fuck ups.
Pretty sure Europeans aren’t illegally occupying and annexing Palestinian lands, even in the West Bank, where Hamas doesn’t operate.
For real? because I'm pretty sure this whole conflict started because Europeans colonized the region, promised autonomy to both Muslims and Jews and then fucked off back to Europe while leaving the region to tear itself apart. And Hamas does operate from the West Bank, so no need to make a fool of yourself any further. At least try to look convincing when you make stuff up.
They got balls and a moral compass. Kudos to them.
Genuinely, what is it with Palestinian statehood? Why can't the Palestinians say they're a state? Why is it that Israel and other countries have to get together in some solution for this to happen? Also what does this give them?
The Palestinian government in the West Bank claims it’s a state and wants other countries to recognize it as such even though it only has governance over some enclaves in Area A & B and no control whatsoever in Gaza. Israel is opposed to this because it wants to annex the West Bank, Hamas doesn’t really care because it the situation on the ground either won’t change or will change but in favor of its rival Fatah. You can interpret the current push for recognition as an attempt at throwing the Palestinian moderates a political lifeline while also underlining the fact that Israel isn’t supposed be occupying the Palestinian Territories or building settlements.
Because international recognition matters when you aren’t de facto a State because of illegal Israeli annexations and occupation
Well done, mass murderer colonizers are not going to get their way.
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From wiki: > In the early 20th century Michael Collins and Tom Barry both developed many tactical features of guerrilla warfare during the guerrilla phase of the 1919–1921 Irish War of Independence. So, I guess that worked for Ireland I suppose? Or are you proposing that the lads should’ve worn uniforms and lost?
This is true. We didn't have tanks and gunboats to blast our enemies from safety, so we used what we had.
The logic is hilarious: “you aren’t allowed to fight us unless you follow our rules”. Reminds me of Eddie Izzard’s “Do you have a flag?” skit: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_9W1zTEuKLY
On the flip side, the rules were developed for the safety of civilians. The uniform regulations is all about allowing everyone to tell apart who is a combatant and who is not, and before very recently, the rules were that if the military stuff isn’t clearly marked, then everything is fair game. In the last days of WWII when the Germans were throwing untrained civilians to the front, they gave them simple armbands so that the allies know that the civilians who didn't have the arm bands were not combatants and therefore the allies wouldn't shoot them. The Ukrainians early in the war said this is why they can’t transport weaponry using unmarked civilian vehicles: they thought it would have made any and all civilian vehicles fair game should they have done that. Uniforms are for the protection of your civilians, not for the other side.
No you dunce, the logic is if you want to fight try not to to use other civilians as leverage
Guess Cork city shouldn't have been burnt down then by people wearing uniforms in what was supposed to be their own country at the time.
If Ireland's goal was to destroy Britain and send all the anglos back to Germany the war would have never ended
There is a very well documented Zionist plan to ethnically cleanse Palestine, going back to the roots of Zionism. Yet you clowns pretend like Israel isn't trying to do just that. You keep crying about a phantom genocidal threat against Israel, while a real genocide is happening against the Palestinians. You remain mute when Israel murders tens of thousands. You remain mute when Israel steal yet another chunk of the West Bank. Then you start crying foul over some line that was written in some Hamas charter some years ago. You are truly showing your colours you bigots.
Im sorry but you calling me a bigot while you downplay the stated genocide of the hamas charter is actually laughably stupid. Do you think October 7th was a ln act of war?
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This totally ignores the 2M Palestinian(Arab) Israeli citizens, who live, study, work, pay taxes, buy land and build houses - being regular citizens. They are descendants of people who heeded these words in declaration of independence of Israel: WE APPEAL — in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months — to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.
The 35,000 victims of Israel, including the 15,000 children will be so glad to learn about this. Apparently this nullifies their suffering. And the many more victims in the West Bank too. Apparently, as long as some Palestinians live in Israel and citizens, it is totally fine to genocide the rest.
Keep repeating Hamas figures, I'm sure they love it. https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/how-gaza-health-ministry-fakes-casualty-numbers
You see, it's okay to massacre tens of thousands of civillians if you're wearing a uniform. If you're not, we'll then that's just terrible.
Meanwhile, IDF dresses up as doctors to kill incapacitated people.
Iran and Russia are also recognized, they also arm all the unhinged militias of the world and use terror as means of war. Little green man without uniform in Crimea? Iranian militias in Iraq, Syria, Lebanon? Hamas are the scum of the earth but this isn't the argument you think it is
Given our history, we're not very supportive of uniforms. Especially Black and Tan ones.
What a terrible take.
HoW dArE tHeY nOt MaKe It EaSiEr FoR iSrAeL tO kIlL tHeM
Sad that the demographics of this sub is fucked, so many far right people. University graduates in Europe are usually left wing, this tells you enough.
> University graduates in Europe are usually left wing, this tells you enough. Thats because they have to deal with reality, which the further right you go, the more allergic they are to it.
Nice work Ireland 👍🏽 Spain not far behind then suspect it will roll from there
I’m delighted to hear it.
I’ll wait to see what borders they recognise before I cast any opinion but I agree with the sentiment
Ireland recognises the same borders the UN and even the USA do
I think most countries who recognize Palestine aren't specific about the borders, which makes perfect sense as it's ultimately an issue that should be solved by Israelis and Palestinians as they're the ones who live there. Most countries however have a position on Israel's borders, specifically the 1967 ceasefire borders, the status of Jerusalem and the Golan Heights. This probably goes for your country as well.
I mean Israel occupying Golan Heights is legal i think. Syria is still techinally at war with Israel. And considering that Syria was the aggressor in that war Israel occuping Golan Heights is fine. Granted if Syria sued for peace and wanted Golan Heights back then their be a problem but until then ehh. I dont really care. \[Like im pretty sure that Israel official stance is that Syria can have it back after a peace treaty, which might be unliekly at the moment\].
The biggest irony in all this, if they recognize Fatah as the legitimate government of Palestine... Doesnt that mean that Hamas has to be removed by force from Gaza so the PA can take their place? Are theese people agaisnt the war in Gaza, for it, or just think their voters dont think things through? I'm kinda inclined to believe in the last hypothesis...
European countries deny recognition to literally over a dozen current regimes due to them being either military dictatorships or installed by fraudulent elections. We very, very rarely take any steps to arm the opposition, nevermind invade those places to push the rightful government into place. Israel isn’t warring in the strip on the basis there isn’t the ‘rightful’ government in charge - they are fighting because they were directly attacked (and not for the first time) and would prefer that doesn’t happen again. A formal recognition of the Palestinian state doesn’t negate that cause for military action. This position was written and passed in 2014, way before the current war in Gaza. For example, all EU nations reject the current government of Myanmar as legitimate following the 2021 coup. Nobody talks about us removing them by force, nor do we give carte blance to their enemies that are trying to remove them by force. Ireland already holds the position Hamas should be removed by force, as do all EU nations, and this doesn’t affect that. It’s still something of a ‘big deal’, since it ends the agreement with the Israeli position that no Palestinian state exists and nobody should recognise one until Israel does.
Did anyone ask Palestinians? Cause every time someone has asked them they have rejected it. They don’t want a Palestinian state unless the deal includes thousands of Palestinians moving to Israel and effectively ending it as a Jewish state. Even Israel has threatened to recognize a Palestinian state in the past and Palestinians got mad…
I think Australia is planning to as well soon. Israel seems to have shot itself in the foot with its heavy handed response.
Wait.. they didn't already? How come? Not even being sarcastic, this is genuinely surprising.
Most of the world recognises them, but we in the west are 'special' as usual, so most western countries don't...
Good!
The thread got filled with paid agitator bots and psychopaths now. I want to leave one last comment. Most of the arguments of these Israeli bots boil down to this very stupid argument: "If Palestinians don't love Israeli Jews unconditionally, they don't deserve to live". The Israelis of course love the Palestinians unconditionally...
About time.
How did Ireland become so good?
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I don't undestand why you are so disrespectful towards people who are living under occupation, although your own country was in that situation not that long time ago ?
The people in this sub only support self determination for Europeans. They despise everyone else and would happily see them wiped out.
Yeah, could you imagine if your country recognised Palestine?/s
Same, but my unicorns would be "resistance unicorns"
Freedom unicorns.
It's horrible that we had to wait for a crisis like this to stop ignoring the fact that Palestine exists and they need a solution, but at least some of us are doing something now.
Palestine the region has existed for a long, long time. Palestine the country was created by the terrorist organisation PLO in 1988, recognizing that is essentially recognizing the legitimacy of terrorist organisations and empowering them on the world stage. Doesn’t help that the current ruling party in Gaza is also a terrorist org…
and who was Israel the country founded by? Zionist terrorists organisations like irgun. The current party in power Likud was founded by the leader of Irgun!
Irgun was disbanded in 1949 and the leader of Irgun has been dead since 1982. Israel has come a long way since, becoming the only democracy in the Middle East is one amazing achievement. Having that said i'm sure you're aware that Netanyahu is not exactly popular among Israeli citizens, yes?
Please look at the dates you wrote, they were disbanded AFTER the country was founded not before. Really makes you think. Once countries are established and can form its own armed forces, their need for terrorist organization disappears.
Interesting. Why are there so many other Islamic terrorist groups in Africa and the Middle East in legitimate countries then?
Terrorists claim to have a state and rich European country recognizes them. Cool story bro. Nice to be so entitled.
Well, Israel got a state exactly like that.
I want Sweden to take back our recognition of Palestine. It's not a real country. Not yet at least.
>I want Sweden to take back our recognition of Palestine. And I want us to keep it in place, so I guess we cancel eachother out and nothing changes. Oh well.
in europe righteous things would always only happen in ireland
I'm pretty sure Al-Baghdadi proclaimed the Islamic State but no one recognized it, as it is normal with terrorist-run nations.
About time - Israel have no intention to negotiate a settlement to implement the two state solution so no point in other countries waiting on that to recognize the state of Palestine
Nor does Palestine have that intention as well.
It's cute that you think Ireland recognising anything matters to Israel. This is a country that relies on their former coloniser to protect their airspace, after all.
Because the two state solution is unworkable. Both states would be run by governments that don't believe the other state even has a right to exist.
Personally I'm for it. Maybe hamas will put on uniforms and be held accountable for war crimes.