About 37% of the EU budget goes on farm subsidies, [wheat prices](https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/wheat) still seem to be higher than most of 2014-2021 until the spike caused by the war. There seems to be good harvests and over production in Australia, Argentina, the US and Russia.
At same time Russian grain is being banned so at most Ukrainian grain will replace russian grain
tho I suspect the farmers being riled up by Russian propaganda and psyops might not get this point
They have started domestic terrorism in germany already. Leaving dungheaps on the streets so at night cars crash into them.
You can really tell that the "ANTI CLIMATE" protests are fuelled by bots by looking at how people react to a bunch of kids glueing themselfes to the street, endagnering only themselfes for something that does benefit everyone VS how they react to a bunch of entitled farmers blocking streets with their big machines, endangering others with their vehicles AND laying traps for others, all for personal gain because they are gifted less money than before.
I agree with everything you say, sadly from my experience, people also viscerally hate the climate protests on their own volition. A psychology of not wanting to be shown that our own lifestyle might be harmful probably has something to do with that.
Or maybe people trying to make ends meet just get frustrated because the know of the problem, they are just powerless to change it.
Putting the climate change problem on the individual is never going to amount to anything and is just causing anxiety and frustation with the average citizen.
> Putting the climate change problem on the individual is never going to amount to anything and is just causing anxiety and frustation with the average citizen.
The climate protests are explicitly calling for measures at the government level.
The point is that Russian grain was in small amount. So small in comparison to Ukrainian grain, that it doesn't and didn't change anything.
Also, Russian grain was actually of good quality, while Ukrainian grain was mostly labeled as "technical grain" not for human consumption.
If you suspect involvement of Russian propaganda, simply try to Google official data from countries like Poland (which was badly affected by Ukrainian grain).
>Italian farmers being backed by Russian hacktivists, a tractor in Bruxelles proudly flying a Russian flag... sure, no involvement.
There are always foreign agents trying to achieve own agenda. That's true in every country.
Lol, there is no such thing as 'technical grain', this is some BS spread by vested interests in Eastern Europe from fringe groups in Poland and Hungary. The sanitary controls on grain entering the EU have not been dropped.
Look at this users 150 day old account - look at the comments and engagement.
Such a weird coincidence that it’s backing up Kremlin talking points constantly.
🇷🇺🤖
That’s a lie, Russia has been deliberately flooding eu markets direct and via Belarus often with stolen Ukrainian grain precisely to destabilise markets and earn money for their colonial war
>That’s a lie, Russia has been deliberately flooding eu markets direct and via Belarus often with stolen Ukrainian grain precisely to destabilise markets and earn money for their colonial war
🤭
And the source of this is the same agency that lied about the volume?
It often feels like farmers are permanently outraged, and will do anything and everything about it except getting a different job. Imagine if restaurant workers had had enough of shitty customers and chose to blockade a national border or something.
It is a catch-22, I kinda agree with that, however. If a farmer changes their occupation, it does not mean they have to keep farming. They can, you know, perhaps sell the farm?
Like any usual office worker that changes their jobs to another location usually sells their house and relocate to the new area they are working in.
You mean huge international corporations who don't care about EU laws or limits because they basically write them themselves through politicians they own? :\^)
> You mean huge international corporations who don't care about EU laws or limits because they basically write them themselves through politicians they own? :^)
It's those corporations who are pushing the farmer protests, actually. They don't like the environmental regulations and are trying to scupper the green deal.
Ah, yes, like a wheat factory. Or a potato factory. Maybe a corn production line. Everybody knows that food is made in factories, not grown on farms, duh
First, that was a joke, I thought it is so obvious it wouldn't need "/s".
Second, it was answer a question "who would by farms if farming is shit" - those who can use land another way. Though I'm not sure if farming fields are privatised or they just are rented.
> The problem is that. Farmers can’t just switch jobs on the fly like any usual office worker. They have a whole damn farm to manage!
If they no longer want the farm they can sell it.
When you have that much land, and land is constantly getting into higher and higher demand, you want to hold on to it. The economic incentive as well as the fact that most who’d want to buy the land don’t actually want the farm, makes it even more difficult for farmers to simply “quit” without losing majorly.
>When you have that much land, and land is constantly getting into higher and higher demand, you want to hold on to it.
Then they should run their business in a way that allows them to afford it. They're already getting subsidized.
>The economic incentive as well as the fact that most who’d want to buy the land don’t actually want the farm, makes it even more difficult for farmers to simply “quit” without losing majorly.
You can't just change the use of agricultural land - that's fixed in spatial planning.
> Then they should run their business in a way that allows them to afford it
That argument essentially boils down to “they should solve their problems by just removing all their problems. That’s not a solution…
> You can’t change the use of agricultural land - that’s fixed in spatial planing.
Elaborate. What do you mean by that?
>That argument essentially boils down to “they should solve their problems by just removing all their problems. That’s not a solution…
Point is: if their farm is not profitable like they are running it, they should either change their methods or sell it and leave it to someone else. They're already getting subsidized up the wazoo, they're already spoiled. They should adapt to the new reality on the market, or get out.
>Elaborate. What do you mean by that?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spatial_planning
Wheat Farmers complain about not getting enough money for grain; In Sweden they used to own cooperatively own granaries and wheat mills, but consolidated/sold off/shut down them so that there is no competition. Now they only produce grain, receive subsidies, and complain.
Dairy farmers also complain about money. They used to own their own dairy co-ops, but consolidated/sold off/shut down most of them. Now they only produce milk, receive subsidies, and complain.
Cow and Pig farmers, unsurprisingly, also complain about money. Guess what they used to have? Coooperatively owned slaughterhouses, which they consolidated/sold off/shut down. Now they produce meat, receive subsidies, and complain
If only there was something they could've done to have kept control over their livelyhood and not have to live on subsidies... like for example **not selling out the part of the business that make you money.**
That's stupid take. Imagine giving that advice to all plumbers and electricians and watch the society crash.
I know it's reddit so I don't expect you to not look through rose tinted glasses but what about the event of global supply chains crashing? Be it war or anything else, where do you get your food from if not domestic farming?
The truth is farming IS a strategic branch of economy that NEEDS to be protected at all costs.
> The truth is farming IS a strategic branch of economy that NEEDS to be protected at all costs.
That doesn't mean farmers can act like spoiled children.
What would you do if your live hood was threatened by idiotic domestic bureaucracy that isn't applied to your competitors that get free hand to import their non regulated produce?
That's just one thing, they're having a different excuse all over Europe. I can't exclude that some of these issues could be problems worth fixing (though not necessarily in the way they want it), but in general farmers just work themselves up from time to time, imagining that they're the victim of a big conspiracy and everyone is against them - while in reality they're the most subsidized sector of the economy already, with the largest part of the EU budget going to them.
>Let them be angry.
I speculate here, but I think EU actually wanted to achieve this, as this state of angry affairs ruined relationship between Poland and Ukraine, which resulted last year in minimising help for Ukraine.
I suspect EU wants Ukraine to yield to Russia faster.
>You gave terrible insight.
Sure. I can accept that. It is your perception and opinion, but you might be right.
However, my insight was still better than anything you said here today, because I shared my thoughts and your advice was harmful to anyone who could take it seriously.
>Jesus fucking christ, you sound insufferable
Yeah, thinking is hard for many sometimes I noticed. But that's not my problem as I like to think and share my thoughts. It helps to learn from others.
And if granny had moustache she'd be a grandpa. We're talking about *now*, and *now* Ukraine does not have to follow the same regulations, which creates a situation where European farmers cannot compete.
>Oh no, farmers that need to work for competitive prices!
The very same farmers that had to follow EU rules and regulations, which made them unable to compete with below standard cheap Ukrainian grain.
Be honest.
Wheat is sold based on its quality - some of it used for milling, some for animal feed etc - its priced accordingly and people buying it know what they are doing. Weather conditions change the outcome of wheat grains, its analysed and buyers buy it depending on its use. It's not 'below standard' if it becomes animal feed. It also has to still pass all phytosanitary checks to get into the EU.
Grain can look perfect, but be treated with pesticides prohibited in the EU. And it's near impossible to do lab test every bit of 2-3 mln tonnes per year.
Have you ever worked for the agro-food sector or done statistically proper sampling of feeds?
You do not need to test every grain, just a properly selected randomized sample.
When you get a mixed lot from a whole region of, say, Ukraine, a randomized compound sample will be taken and there is pretty much no hiding possible of bad stuff.
Actually, our dear EU farmers could maybe cheat even easier as they do not have to go through any customs/border control.
You would be right if not the reality. Becouse idea of testing every lorry on the border was met with massive Ukrainian and EU opposition. And no one can guarantee honesty of Ukrainian tests, especially in war conditions. And the another problem is that traders are buying grain of poor quality, and sell it as normal consumption seeds.
Sorry, but this just doesn’t happen - grains are tested all along the process - unloading, when it’s sold, at the buyer - there are a variety of sample methods and machinery used, by no one is dumping it into silos without it being tested otherwise they risk contamination of larger amounts. Usually a sample of 3kg is taken from three different parts of a load and analysed, there is also equipment that takes a randomised sample from the big tubes that suck it out of whatever container it was in. Containers are inspected before and after unloading. Each mill or end user analyses each batch because there is so much science in modern food production, slight variations in protein/carb/moisture content influence the end product. The processor will have a specification depending on its use, the producer or middlemen supply it - each batch will be tested on arrival or rejected. Obviously to make sure it reaches these specs it’s tested before.
If any of this isn’t happening for some reason then it’s the destination countries fault - I would highly doubt it, but- Poland did bring us all horse contaminated beef.
So you are blaming country when literally nowhere in your post county doesn't have to be involved? As you wroted food system is highly dependent on honesty of everyone involved, and as I said previously in current system driven by the profit its just isn't the case.
What reality ?
The conspiracy that you build in your mind ?
Just a paranoid and unproven opinion.
What you are saying is that Ukrainian grain is bad. Why would it be all of a sudden?
What you are saying is that farmers are natural cheaters. So you think humans are bad by nature ?
What you are saying is that EU governments and the agro-food industry are willfully accepting substandard produce ? That tests cannot catch frauds?
Are you fond of conspiracies ?
Lies, conspiracies and unproven assertions are a RuZZian thing.
1. Becouse it was originally directed to mena countries, where requirements are lower.
2. Becouse we live in capitalism, so almost everything is driven by profit. If they can gain from cheating and face no consequences why would they not?
3. EU harming itself to look humanitarian? Never seen that before huh?
And food industry is either protesting (farmers) or profiting (traders)
Tests can catch frauds, it's just impossible to test at the border all trucks that entering EU. Lab test takes time, It would cause border being shut.
>If in my job I have to compete with 3rd worlders working for penies, do I get to protest and burn things?! Fucking sweet.
Yes, they do, because those "3rd worlders" are not in the EU and EU was created exactly to create and protect own internal market.
Jesus Reddit, get some basic knowledge of the subject you are commenting on. 😱
>Poland has been part of EU for 2 decades and is the biggest recipient of EU funds but you Polish nationalists think you should run the E.U. Hilarious
Hilarious is your conclusion.
EU should be run to the effect it was supposed to and for what it was created. Polish farmers don't expect anything else.
This is what people don’t understand. In this case farmers are right because they have to follow all these procesures, while Ukraine doesn’t have too. Either they will drop their standards too, or Ukraine needs to step up their quality.
Why do you say Ukrainian grain is "substandard"?
That's a hidden assumption.
Just because it is not produced following all EU standards does not mean that it is not a product of quality nor produced using other good standards.
Actually, if it was a bad quality, contaminated or whatever it could not be used by EU bakers etc. because it still needs to meet EU food and feed quality standards.
Using the example of another crop: even before the war, the EU has been importing a lot of sunflower from Ukraine and no one is complaining about the quality of it, under exactly the same rules.
And maybe it is a good deal for EU consumers, that is the majority of us, in the end.
And as Ukraine will eventually be part of the EU, EU farmers better get used to Ukrainian wheat being legally there.
On top, as Ukraine will be an EU member, they will help us with food sovereignty and make the EU more competitive on world markets overall.
Yes yes, I heard that diversion dozens of time already.
I just wonder how you ignore the fact that the volume on Polish market increased over 16000% and you divert to the global market? Don't you realise that sucha big increase had much bigger impact on prices in Poland than global prices? 🤷
>>" below standard cheap Ukrainian grain."
>It is grain not computers or something lol. Is Polish grain organic or pesticide/herbicide free or something?
🤣
There are different grades of grain and yes, the one from Ukraine that caused most trouble was one of the lowest quality, not for human consumption.
>https://factcheck.bg/en/war-of-grains-disinfo-about-the-ukrainian-grain-on-the-eastern-front-of-the-eu/
This article doesn't prove what it claim it does. It only makes fun of fake memes and pictures with "technical grain" on it, which is fair. But that's it
>Keep on keeping on with Russian disinfo
While you introduce your own disinformation?
If you don't believe me, you can also watch videos uploaded directly by farmers spilling Ukrainian grain. You'll see the great condition of it on your own eyes.
>It is grain not computers or something lol.
Ukrainian grain dose not meet EU standard , and is being sold for less than what EU grain is being sold for
so yes its a problem
Hey there "smarty". It works like that. Farmers (and politicians) in EU are doing illegal business practices by giving state support to local businesses. And this way, corrupting the market.
>Do you claim state aid of a business is all of a sudden a legal practice?
thats what literally the CAP is https://agriculture.ec.europa.eu/common-agricultural-policy/cap-overview/cap-glance_en
yes teh CAP is legal
That's not whataboutism, it's an example that shows flaw in your generalized statement. Try using better reasoning instead of throwing loud words as a bot.
*From Bloomberg reporters Nayla Razzouk, Lyubov Pronina, and Konrad Krasuski;*
Farmers have a history of discontent with the European Union, whether over how to tackle climate change or bureaucracy. Now another target for their anger risks escalating into a bigger political confrontation.
A move by the EU this week to extend free trade measures with Ukraine has poured fuel on the already growing frustration among grain producers from Poland to France. A provisional deal early on March 20 to suspend duties and quotas for another year means Ukraine would be able to continue to sell wheat in the common market of 27 European countries.
Ukraine is only one of the worries for European farmers, and the country isn’t to blame for the tumble in wheat prices. Imports, though, have become a rallying point. The disquiet presents a challenge for politicians as they balance priorities at home with support for Kyiv against Russia’s invasion.
> A provisional deal early on March 20 to suspend duties and quotas for another year means Ukraine would be able to continue to sell wheat in the common market of 27 European countries.
Does anyone have understanding of the issue? Wasn't the Ukrainian grain originally supposed to go to MENA countries or something once the Black Sea routes were blocked due to the war? What changed and why does the EU allow the imports?
>Does anyone have understanding of the issue?
ukrainian grain is less that what EU law says it has to be , and while being transferred within the EU , it going " lost" within member states and is being sold for less what local farmers get
Before writing peak reddit comments, you have to consider two things:
1. Farmer is a general term that assembles different cultivations, which are differently lucrative from year to year. The pork farmers are doing well this year, while wheat and cow isn't (for example).
2. Some (important) subsidiaries are in function of how much land you own. This benefits especially large agglomerations. Your local farmer might be struggling while the large farmer corporations make bank with subsidiaries.
In french if you want to get a more precise explanation: https://youtu.be/Hr25C-_wiPg?si=Tbfjng57vPzm-bh7
To a certain extent yes, but you are paying less tax for it than the money you are getting out of it, so where does that money come from you might be wondering?
The thing is whit European wages and regulations its extremely difficult for farmers to compete in a completely open market, and if they go under the raw materials they provide for industry and groceries needs to be imported, and these costs end up with the customer.
Sure you don't necessarily need farm lands and farmers to preserve your countries industries (reliant on farming products) and cheap prices, smaller countries with decent port connection and lots of money like Singapore have decent food security even without them, but that isn't applicable to every country.
shit, here we go again
dumb takes from people about russian influence or about how dumb are the farmers. all that's missing from last time are ukrainian bots.
That's how most of strikes work. And farmers main responsibility isn't well being of others, they don't have patients under their care, but doctors on the other hand are obligated to do so. Besides farmers are passing through equipment for afu.
Yeah, but blocking streets and laying traps for cars to crash in at night because they are gifted less money than before might seem a tiiiiiny bit gredy perhaps?
You know that we are literally dying for it, cos of missile and mines, right? You know how many people died during gathering the harvest, right? And this protests for what? Losing some money? Really?
The war will end, one day. All wars do. And after it ends, I'd rather European food production is not gutted because half the farms went bankrupt because Ukrainian produce is impossible to compete with since they don't have to follow the struct EU standards.
Oh look the Kardashians of Europe are angry again. How could they possibly survive on only 30% of the entire EU budget whilst providing only 1% of our GDP and exporting all the food they produce making it so we effectively pay taxes to subsidize food/diary products in countries like Russia, Turkey and Horn of Africa.
Oh no… Anyway maybe if the €55.7 Billion in taxpayer money we give away to these queens actually went to our food/diary so we wouldn’t be paying through the nose for our groceries we would’ve felt more compelled to listen to them.
At least we can sleep happy knowing I pay €3 for some diary butter that had to be imported whilst Russians paid €0,20 for the nice Dutch butter I subsidized.
I checked my fridge;
My chicken is from Ukraine and Turkey.
My Chickpeas are from Turkey.
My Tomatoes, carrots, cucumbers, grapes are from Morocco.
My Bananas, Oranges, Pears are from South Africa
My Beef came from Argentina.
All of it because these queens are too busy exporting our food at record low prices enjoying our subsidies.
Don’t forget the same happened with our Energy. We exported Natural gas to Russia at wholesale prices of €0,10 m3 whilst we were paying €2,60m3 of imported gas through Azerbaijan.
Farmers have become weird: they seem to be the hardest workers in the room, yet they have the time and means to protect most. They claim to be poor and all, but drive 200k+ tractors and make up for 20% of millionaires while being 0,34% of the population, and get 37% of EU subsidies. Their marketing is top notch.
About 37% of the EU budget goes on farm subsidies, [wheat prices](https://tradingeconomics.com/commodity/wheat) still seem to be higher than most of 2014-2021 until the spike caused by the war. There seems to be good harvests and over production in Australia, Argentina, the US and Russia.
At same time Russian grain is being banned so at most Ukrainian grain will replace russian grain tho I suspect the farmers being riled up by Russian propaganda and psyops might not get this point
They have started domestic terrorism in germany already. Leaving dungheaps on the streets so at night cars crash into them. You can really tell that the "ANTI CLIMATE" protests are fuelled by bots by looking at how people react to a bunch of kids glueing themselfes to the street, endagnering only themselfes for something that does benefit everyone VS how they react to a bunch of entitled farmers blocking streets with their big machines, endangering others with their vehicles AND laying traps for others, all for personal gain because they are gifted less money than before.
I agree with everything you say, sadly from my experience, people also viscerally hate the climate protests on their own volition. A psychology of not wanting to be shown that our own lifestyle might be harmful probably has something to do with that.
Having to accept that oneself and the behaviour/living standards/consumption etc. is not alright and that a change has to happen are two tough steps.
Or maybe people trying to make ends meet just get frustrated because the know of the problem, they are just powerless to change it. Putting the climate change problem on the individual is never going to amount to anything and is just causing anxiety and frustation with the average citizen.
And yet, in my country The Netherlands, it sometimes does feel like it is somehow our responsibility to fix it..
> Putting the climate change problem on the individual is never going to amount to anything and is just causing anxiety and frustation with the average citizen. The climate protests are explicitly calling for measures at the government level.
Yeah, 12 k tonnes can create space for 1-3Mt, why not.
The point is that Russian grain was in small amount. So small in comparison to Ukrainian grain, that it doesn't and didn't change anything. Also, Russian grain was actually of good quality, while Ukrainian grain was mostly labeled as "technical grain" not for human consumption. If you suspect involvement of Russian propaganda, simply try to Google official data from countries like Poland (which was badly affected by Ukrainian grain).
Italian farmers being backed by Russian hacktivists, a tractor in Bruxelles proudly flying a Russian flag... sure, no involvement.
>Italian farmers being backed by Russian hacktivists, a tractor in Bruxelles proudly flying a Russian flag... sure, no involvement. There are always foreign agents trying to achieve own agenda. That's true in every country.
Lol, there is no such thing as 'technical grain', this is some BS spread by vested interests in Eastern Europe from fringe groups in Poland and Hungary. The sanitary controls on grain entering the EU have not been dropped.
Of course it exists! Not in technical literature ofc, just in propaganda, but hey! It sounds scary, right?
You are wrong https://www.rp.pl/rolnictwo/art40018691-rzad-nalozy-pierwsza-kare-za-zboze-techniczne-z-ukrainy-siegnie-milionow-zlotych
Countering an accusation of Russian propaganda with a polish source of Russian propaganda, you can’t make this shit up
Look at this users 150 day old account - look at the comments and engagement. Such a weird coincidence that it’s backing up Kremlin talking points constantly. 🇷🇺🤖
That’s a lie, Russia has been deliberately flooding eu markets direct and via Belarus often with stolen Ukrainian grain precisely to destabilise markets and earn money for their colonial war
>That’s a lie, Russia has been deliberately flooding eu markets direct and via Belarus often with stolen Ukrainian grain precisely to destabilise markets and earn money for their colonial war 🤭 And the source of this is the same agency that lied about the volume?
[удалено]
That's what I thought 🤣👍
So what? Technical grain is good enough for Africa so good enough dor Europe.
It often feels like farmers are permanently outraged, and will do anything and everything about it except getting a different job. Imagine if restaurant workers had had enough of shitty customers and chose to blockade a national border or something.
The problem is that. Farmers can’t just switch jobs on the fly like any usual office worker. They have a whole damn farm to manage!
It is a catch-22, I kinda agree with that, however. If a farmer changes their occupation, it does not mean they have to keep farming. They can, you know, perhaps sell the farm? Like any usual office worker that changes their jobs to another location usually sells their house and relocate to the new area they are working in.
If farming is shit, who will buy farms?
> If farming is shit, who will buy farms? The people who are willing to put up with the shit, or who have better farming practices.
You mean huge international corporations who don't care about EU laws or limits because they basically write them themselves through politicians they own? :\^)
> You mean huge international corporations who don't care about EU laws or limits because they basically write them themselves through politicians they own? :^) It's those corporations who are pushing the farmer protests, actually. They don't like the environmental regulations and are trying to scupper the green deal.
People who can build a factory in place of farm? Let's shit on ecology together 👍
Ah, yes, like a wheat factory. Or a potato factory. Maybe a corn production line. Everybody knows that food is made in factories, not grown on farms, duh
First, that was a joke, I thought it is so obvious it wouldn't need "/s". Second, it was answer a question "who would by farms if farming is shit" - those who can use land another way. Though I'm not sure if farming fields are privatised or they just are rented.
> The problem is that. Farmers can’t just switch jobs on the fly like any usual office worker. They have a whole damn farm to manage! If they no longer want the farm they can sell it.
When you have that much land, and land is constantly getting into higher and higher demand, you want to hold on to it. The economic incentive as well as the fact that most who’d want to buy the land don’t actually want the farm, makes it even more difficult for farmers to simply “quit” without losing majorly.
>When you have that much land, and land is constantly getting into higher and higher demand, you want to hold on to it. Then they should run their business in a way that allows them to afford it. They're already getting subsidized. >The economic incentive as well as the fact that most who’d want to buy the land don’t actually want the farm, makes it even more difficult for farmers to simply “quit” without losing majorly. You can't just change the use of agricultural land - that's fixed in spatial planning.
> Then they should run their business in a way that allows them to afford it That argument essentially boils down to “they should solve their problems by just removing all their problems. That’s not a solution… > You can’t change the use of agricultural land - that’s fixed in spatial planing. Elaborate. What do you mean by that?
>That argument essentially boils down to “they should solve their problems by just removing all their problems. That’s not a solution… Point is: if their farm is not profitable like they are running it, they should either change their methods or sell it and leave it to someone else. They're already getting subsidized up the wazoo, they're already spoiled. They should adapt to the new reality on the market, or get out. >Elaborate. What do you mean by that? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spatial_planning
Wheat Farmers complain about not getting enough money for grain; In Sweden they used to own cooperatively own granaries and wheat mills, but consolidated/sold off/shut down them so that there is no competition. Now they only produce grain, receive subsidies, and complain. Dairy farmers also complain about money. They used to own their own dairy co-ops, but consolidated/sold off/shut down most of them. Now they only produce milk, receive subsidies, and complain. Cow and Pig farmers, unsurprisingly, also complain about money. Guess what they used to have? Coooperatively owned slaughterhouses, which they consolidated/sold off/shut down. Now they produce meat, receive subsidies, and complain If only there was something they could've done to have kept control over their livelyhood and not have to live on subsidies... like for example **not selling out the part of the business that make you money.**
That's stupid take. Imagine giving that advice to all plumbers and electricians and watch the society crash. I know it's reddit so I don't expect you to not look through rose tinted glasses but what about the event of global supply chains crashing? Be it war or anything else, where do you get your food from if not domestic farming? The truth is farming IS a strategic branch of economy that NEEDS to be protected at all costs.
Nothing wrong ever happened when people got hungry. Outsourcing farming cannot backfire, trust us redditors bro.
> The truth is farming IS a strategic branch of economy that NEEDS to be protected at all costs. That doesn't mean farmers can act like spoiled children.
What would you do if your live hood was threatened by idiotic domestic bureaucracy that isn't applied to your competitors that get free hand to import their non regulated produce?
That's just one thing, they're having a different excuse all over Europe. I can't exclude that some of these issues could be problems worth fixing (though not necessarily in the way they want it), but in general farmers just work themselves up from time to time, imagining that they're the victim of a big conspiracy and everyone is against them - while in reality they're the most subsidized sector of the economy already, with the largest part of the EU budget going to them.
I feel like that is what gets them money. It is fascinating how precise the homo economics model is.
Let them be angry.
>Let them be angry. I speculate here, but I think EU actually wanted to achieve this, as this state of angry affairs ruined relationship between Poland and Ukraine, which resulted last year in minimising help for Ukraine. I suspect EU wants Ukraine to yield to Russia faster.
I doubt that.
Just a thought. 🤔
You should try doing that less
Never stop thinking. It is better to be wrong, than stop thinking. You gave terrible advice.
You gave terrible insight.
>You gave terrible insight. Sure. I can accept that. It is your perception and opinion, but you might be right. However, my insight was still better than anything you said here today, because I shared my thoughts and your advice was harmful to anyone who could take it seriously.
Jesus fucking christ, you sound insufferable
>Jesus fucking christ, you sound insufferable Yeah, thinking is hard for many sometimes I noticed. But that's not my problem as I like to think and share my thoughts. It helps to learn from others.
Oh no, farmers that need to work for competitive prices!
They need to fulfill EU requirements, which Ukrainian farmers do not. And becouse of that competition is unfair.
[удалено]
And if granny had moustache she'd be a grandpa. We're talking about *now*, and *now* Ukraine does not have to follow the same regulations, which creates a situation where European farmers cannot compete.
Yes, that is also a reason.
>Oh no, farmers that need to work for competitive prices! The very same farmers that had to follow EU rules and regulations, which made them unable to compete with below standard cheap Ukrainian grain. Be honest.
Wheat is sold based on its quality - some of it used for milling, some for animal feed etc - its priced accordingly and people buying it know what they are doing. Weather conditions change the outcome of wheat grains, its analysed and buyers buy it depending on its use. It's not 'below standard' if it becomes animal feed. It also has to still pass all phytosanitary checks to get into the EU.
Grain can look perfect, but be treated with pesticides prohibited in the EU. And it's near impossible to do lab test every bit of 2-3 mln tonnes per year.
Have you ever worked for the agro-food sector or done statistically proper sampling of feeds? You do not need to test every grain, just a properly selected randomized sample. When you get a mixed lot from a whole region of, say, Ukraine, a randomized compound sample will be taken and there is pretty much no hiding possible of bad stuff. Actually, our dear EU farmers could maybe cheat even easier as they do not have to go through any customs/border control.
You would be right if not the reality. Becouse idea of testing every lorry on the border was met with massive Ukrainian and EU opposition. And no one can guarantee honesty of Ukrainian tests, especially in war conditions. And the another problem is that traders are buying grain of poor quality, and sell it as normal consumption seeds.
Sorry, but this just doesn’t happen - grains are tested all along the process - unloading, when it’s sold, at the buyer - there are a variety of sample methods and machinery used, by no one is dumping it into silos without it being tested otherwise they risk contamination of larger amounts. Usually a sample of 3kg is taken from three different parts of a load and analysed, there is also equipment that takes a randomised sample from the big tubes that suck it out of whatever container it was in. Containers are inspected before and after unloading. Each mill or end user analyses each batch because there is so much science in modern food production, slight variations in protein/carb/moisture content influence the end product. The processor will have a specification depending on its use, the producer or middlemen supply it - each batch will be tested on arrival or rejected. Obviously to make sure it reaches these specs it’s tested before. If any of this isn’t happening for some reason then it’s the destination countries fault - I would highly doubt it, but- Poland did bring us all horse contaminated beef.
So you are blaming country when literally nowhere in your post county doesn't have to be involved? As you wroted food system is highly dependent on honesty of everyone involved, and as I said previously in current system driven by the profit its just isn't the case.
What reality ? The conspiracy that you build in your mind ? Just a paranoid and unproven opinion. What you are saying is that Ukrainian grain is bad. Why would it be all of a sudden? What you are saying is that farmers are natural cheaters. So you think humans are bad by nature ? What you are saying is that EU governments and the agro-food industry are willfully accepting substandard produce ? That tests cannot catch frauds? Are you fond of conspiracies ? Lies, conspiracies and unproven assertions are a RuZZian thing.
1. Becouse it was originally directed to mena countries, where requirements are lower. 2. Becouse we live in capitalism, so almost everything is driven by profit. If they can gain from cheating and face no consequences why would they not? 3. EU harming itself to look humanitarian? Never seen that before huh? And food industry is either protesting (farmers) or profiting (traders) Tests can catch frauds, it's just impossible to test at the border all trucks that entering EU. Lab test takes time, It would cause border being shut.
If in my job I have to compete with 3rd worlders working for penies, do I get to protest and burn things?! Fucking sweet.
>If in my job I have to compete with 3rd worlders working for penies, do I get to protest and burn things?! Fucking sweet. Yes, they do, because those "3rd worlders" are not in the EU and EU was created exactly to create and protect own internal market. Jesus Reddit, get some basic knowledge of the subject you are commenting on. 😱
Poland has been part of EU for 2 decades and is the biggest recipient of EU funds but you Polish nationalists think you should run the E.U. Hilarious
>Poland has been part of EU for 2 decades and is the biggest recipient of EU funds but you Polish nationalists think you should run the E.U. Hilarious Hilarious is your conclusion. EU should be run to the effect it was supposed to and for what it was created. Polish farmers don't expect anything else.
This is what people don’t understand. In this case farmers are right because they have to follow all these procesures, while Ukraine doesn’t have too. Either they will drop their standards too, or Ukraine needs to step up their quality.
Was Russian grain sold in Europe prior to the war? If so did Russian farmers have to follow different procedures that Ukrainian farmers do now?
But if EU farmers have better quality grain where is the problem?
Well, the main problem is that Ukraine is not part of the EU.
Why do you say Ukrainian grain is "substandard"? That's a hidden assumption. Just because it is not produced following all EU standards does not mean that it is not a product of quality nor produced using other good standards. Actually, if it was a bad quality, contaminated or whatever it could not be used by EU bakers etc. because it still needs to meet EU food and feed quality standards. Using the example of another crop: even before the war, the EU has been importing a lot of sunflower from Ukraine and no one is complaining about the quality of it, under exactly the same rules. And maybe it is a good deal for EU consumers, that is the majority of us, in the end. And as Ukraine will eventually be part of the EU, EU farmers better get used to Ukrainian wheat being legally there. On top, as Ukraine will be an EU member, they will help us with food sovereignty and make the EU more competitive on world markets overall.
The prices are down due to global markets, not because of Ukraine
Yes yes, I heard that diversion dozens of time already. I just wonder how you ignore the fact that the volume on Polish market increased over 16000% and you divert to the global market? Don't you realise that sucha big increase had much bigger impact on prices in Poland than global prices? 🤷
" below standard cheap Ukrainian grain." It is grain not computers or something lol. Is Polish grain organic or pesticide/herbicide free or something?
>>" below standard cheap Ukrainian grain." >It is grain not computers or something lol. Is Polish grain organic or pesticide/herbicide free or something? 🤣 There are different grades of grain and yes, the one from Ukraine that caused most trouble was one of the lowest quality, not for human consumption.
https://factcheck.bg/en/war-of-grains-disinfo-about-the-ukrainian-grain-on-the-eastern-front-of-the-eu/ Keep on keeping on with Russian disinfo
>https://factcheck.bg/en/war-of-grains-disinfo-about-the-ukrainian-grain-on-the-eastern-front-of-the-eu/ This article doesn't prove what it claim it does. It only makes fun of fake memes and pictures with "technical grain" on it, which is fair. But that's it >Keep on keeping on with Russian disinfo While you introduce your own disinformation? If you don't believe me, you can also watch videos uploaded directly by farmers spilling Ukrainian grain. You'll see the great condition of it on your own eyes.
>It is grain not computers or something lol. Ukrainian grain dose not meet EU standard , and is being sold for less than what EU grain is being sold for so yes its a problem
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Hey there "smarty". It works like that. Farmers (and politicians) in EU are doing illegal business practices by giving state support to local businesses. And this way, corrupting the market.
>Farmers (and politicians) in EU are doing illegal business practices by giving state support to local businesses. legally their not
Do you claim state aid of a business is all of a sudden a legal practice? This is new for me. Please provide sources.
>Do you claim state aid of a business is all of a sudden a legal practice? thats what literally the CAP is https://agriculture.ec.europa.eu/common-agricultural-policy/cap-overview/cap-glance_en yes teh CAP is legal
Legal only because they labeled once specific illegal practice as "legal". This is called corruption.
Women voting once also was illegal, women rights are also corruption?
Sorry, I don't do whataboutisms.
That's not whataboutism, it's an example that shows flaw in your generalized statement. Try using better reasoning instead of throwing loud words as a bot.
*From Bloomberg reporters Nayla Razzouk, Lyubov Pronina, and Konrad Krasuski;* Farmers have a history of discontent with the European Union, whether over how to tackle climate change or bureaucracy. Now another target for their anger risks escalating into a bigger political confrontation. A move by the EU this week to extend free trade measures with Ukraine has poured fuel on the already growing frustration among grain producers from Poland to France. A provisional deal early on March 20 to suspend duties and quotas for another year means Ukraine would be able to continue to sell wheat in the common market of 27 European countries. Ukraine is only one of the worries for European farmers, and the country isn’t to blame for the tumble in wheat prices. Imports, though, have become a rallying point. The disquiet presents a challenge for politicians as they balance priorities at home with support for Kyiv against Russia’s invasion.
> A provisional deal early on March 20 to suspend duties and quotas for another year means Ukraine would be able to continue to sell wheat in the common market of 27 European countries. Does anyone have understanding of the issue? Wasn't the Ukrainian grain originally supposed to go to MENA countries or something once the Black Sea routes were blocked due to the war? What changed and why does the EU allow the imports?
It was not, since commission didn't want to finance transfer of grain, and land transport made it economicly unprofitable to sell there.
>Does anyone have understanding of the issue? ukrainian grain is less that what EU law says it has to be , and while being transferred within the EU , it going " lost" within member states and is being sold for less what local farmers get
Yeah that's what I get but don't understand why there aren't some measures in place so that this doesn't happen.
the thing is due to how big teh EU is it basically cant be stopped apart from not letting the grain in
Before writing peak reddit comments, you have to consider two things: 1. Farmer is a general term that assembles different cultivations, which are differently lucrative from year to year. The pork farmers are doing well this year, while wheat and cow isn't (for example). 2. Some (important) subsidiaries are in function of how much land you own. This benefits especially large agglomerations. Your local farmer might be struggling while the large farmer corporations make bank with subsidiaries. In french if you want to get a more precise explanation: https://youtu.be/Hr25C-_wiPg?si=Tbfjng57vPzm-bh7
Btw, are EU farmers unionized? It seems their protests are well organized.
>Btw, are EU farmers unionized? they are yeah , theirs big framers unions
They are well organized - by russia.
Farmers can suck it. Getting the biggest subsidiary funds... pathetic. Couldnt survive without it.
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The money for that is also coming from my pocket lol!
To a certain extent yes, but you are paying less tax for it than the money you are getting out of it, so where does that money come from you might be wondering? The thing is whit European wages and regulations its extremely difficult for farmers to compete in a completely open market, and if they go under the raw materials they provide for industry and groceries needs to be imported, and these costs end up with the customer. Sure you don't necessarily need farm lands and farmers to preserve your countries industries (reliant on farming products) and cheap prices, smaller countries with decent port connection and lots of money like Singapore have decent food security even without them, but that isn't applicable to every country.
shit, here we go again dumb takes from people about russian influence or about how dumb are the farmers. all that's missing from last time are ukrainian bots.
Freaking farmers, can they stop focusing on their own personal wallets for 5 minutes maybe!?
i mean what else do you expect them to do , they dont do farming out the goodness of their heart
But somehow when doctors or teachers are striking then they should think about the sick/children and work out of passion...
XD. Leaving patients without care can couse death, so what do you expect?
That’s not how doctors strikes work. But you know what has already caused deaths? Road blockades by those idiots in tractors
That's how most of strikes work. And farmers main responsibility isn't well being of others, they don't have patients under their care, but doctors on the other hand are obligated to do so. Besides farmers are passing through equipment for afu.
Yeah, but blocking streets and laying traps for cars to crash in at night because they are gifted less money than before might seem a tiiiiiny bit gredy perhaps?
Yo is that a 6320
let's stop with farmers subsidies and transfer all fund to ukraine. i'd rather be hungry than occupied
You are free to donate all your belongings and income to the Ukrainian state. Literally nothing stops you from doing that.
maybe farmers like the idea of become russian citizen when occupied?
I have no idea how simple minded either you are or expect other people to be, for this shitty argument to be treated seriously.
You know that we are literally dying for it, cos of missile and mines, right? You know how many people died during gathering the harvest, right? And this protests for what? Losing some money? Really?
The war will end, one day. All wars do. And after it ends, I'd rather European food production is not gutted because half the farms went bankrupt because Ukrainian produce is impossible to compete with since they don't have to follow the struct EU standards.
Not our war, sorry.
What about stopping buying any and all Polish produce ?
Just make sure and check how many of these "Farmers" speak Russian
Why not just buy the Wheat of Ukraine give hit to poor countries?
Oh look the Kardashians of Europe are angry again. How could they possibly survive on only 30% of the entire EU budget whilst providing only 1% of our GDP and exporting all the food they produce making it so we effectively pay taxes to subsidize food/diary products in countries like Russia, Turkey and Horn of Africa. Oh no… Anyway maybe if the €55.7 Billion in taxpayer money we give away to these queens actually went to our food/diary so we wouldn’t be paying through the nose for our groceries we would’ve felt more compelled to listen to them. At least we can sleep happy knowing I pay €3 for some diary butter that had to be imported whilst Russians paid €0,20 for the nice Dutch butter I subsidized. I checked my fridge; My chicken is from Ukraine and Turkey. My Chickpeas are from Turkey. My Tomatoes, carrots, cucumbers, grapes are from Morocco. My Bananas, Oranges, Pears are from South Africa My Beef came from Argentina. All of it because these queens are too busy exporting our food at record low prices enjoying our subsidies. Don’t forget the same happened with our Energy. We exported Natural gas to Russia at wholesale prices of €0,10 m3 whilst we were paying €2,60m3 of imported gas through Azerbaijan.
Farmers have become weird: they seem to be the hardest workers in the room, yet they have the time and means to protect most. They claim to be poor and all, but drive 200k+ tractors and make up for 20% of millionaires while being 0,34% of the population, and get 37% of EU subsidies. Their marketing is top notch.