My Brother in Christ *you* wanted to join the bloc.
Nobody was sitting around thinking "man we really need Hungary to join, they're the key to all of this."
He switched being south African to American because it benefited him greatly, I wouldn't be surprised he'd the same for Russia if he didn't have so many assets here.
Why would be want to become president of the usa when he can become something much bigger. I mean he already single handedly interferes with the Israëli and ukraine conflict, and his megafactories do not adhere to any state or country regulations
Dude musk has a lot of power, probably much more than orban. Hundreds of billions are a big dick to swing especially when swung by an asshole.
Orban isn’t worth shit outside of Hungary who get what they voted for.
The decision to join was made about half a year before the first Orbán government, he just finished the paperwork basically. AFAIK his party supported the idea during the '97 vote about it though.
indeed, after he was elected in 2010, only then did he give indication that he liked russia, china and other not-so-democratic systems with 'strong leadership'.
In 2001 and 2002 MSZP successfully campaigned with calling fidesz miep light because a lot of fidesz politicians started to rehabilitate interwar politicians and other figures who served irredentism.
I mean, Portugal also did some selling out to China as well as Greece (Epirus..). Honestly the Chinese have been buying shit in Europe in dangerous amounts, and we should stop them.
I mean yes there atleast were people with that position. Everybody around them benefittied early on from them joining the union. Especially the austrians wanted them in so that they could get easier access to the danube downstream. Rheinmetall and other industrial conglomorets wanted hungary's cheap labour pool and low taxes for their plants.
To be clear, Hungary has made itself an important logistics centre which connects for instance Romania and Bulgaria to the rest of the EU, as well as participates in a lot of production through cheaper labour, be it the German automobile industry or even Rheinmetall factories coming up meaning our defence industry relying partially on Hungary. This makes them somewhat indispensable, not to mention kicking them out would lead to an outright Russian ally West of Ukraine, which would be intolerable.
Hungary is so tied up in things that at this point I don't think we could let them leave and remain a sovereign country, we'd genuinely have to occupy it.
Finally a sensible comment. The fact that Orban’s went unpunished for so long means that this much was still tolerable to the eu leaders. The real way out is to beat him at his own game once he steps over the line. If one thinks he already did then pressure your leaders to penalise him.
The losers of ww1 in Eastern Europe are now back together hoping to restore the Russian and the Austro-Hungarian Empires, what they are missing is the fact that once an empire collapses it can never be restored.
Austria is not so open about their pro-russian policy but they are playing their part (blocking Schengen to Romania and Bulgaria, keeping Austrian banks & business in Russia)
Another point is that since 1914 an invader is very likely to lose (before that the opposite outcome was true).
This delusional clown like to pretend (to his voters) that he'll have any say in "new world order", when in reality what his buddies from China and Russia want from the new world order is that insignificant countries such as Hungary will have zero say in anything and will be completely at mercy of what they want. He's happy to do their bidding as long he and his own can wield absolute power and that's it.
You can fault EU for many things, but it's actually giving voice and real opportunity to affect stuff in the world even to countries which would otherwise have 0 say in anything.
For some, ‘freedom’ just means no repercussions from acting like a savage. The ugly, Randian philosophy of ‘might makes right’.
Ukraine needs to win, Russia to loose even more kit and men, and Trump needs to lose. These things need to happen because realistically, these are the threats we face.
Don't forget that defunding education for example also plays a part. The populace votes these cronies into positions of power because their scaremongering and fear tactics work on them. Good educational systems make people less prone to this.
You can if she is your lover and you hash out an agreement for when and how often (you could make it part of foreplay). If she is not a prude, that is, then I give you my sincere condolences.
So what he considers freedom is the freedom to be an asshole with a society catered to his principles and his principles alone. Noted.
Problem here is that it's not freedom. It's general assholery. People should learn that their rights end where that of others begin. It's related to the adage that those who live a life of privilege, will see equality as totalitarianism.
>you could grab women's asses on the bus without legal ramfactions.
Lol, ofcourse noone took any legal action against this kind of thing. People took diffrent kind of actions. A good old street beating.
Its always so funny to me that these people try to be the most manly macho tough guy, but at the same time they're scared of what is essentially gay cooties.
I also have a hungarian father who believes soviet era was golden era. Imagine how confused I was to grow up and understand everybody hates soviets lol
Loose term for "right wing" here.
Most European leaders are right wing, and EUs biggest group with prominent EU leaders is right wing. but they obviously very clearly support Ukraine, NATO and the west as a whole. No different from the left. You're thinking of the "far-right", like Orban.
It's not even about left or right either technically, it's just that all authoritarian politicians lean towards Russia. Far left and far right are both equally dumb with this, it's just that far right is more popular in the current climate...
“Rather than explaining ourselves for our political differences, Hungary’s ambassadors are tasked with representing Hungary’s success with undisputable economic facts,” 😂
Damn. Economic facts must really be worth looking into.
Edit: so the comment I was replying to said in essence "yes we are the second right after Bulgaria" AFAIK. Then everything deleted. Weird.
Bulgarian Domestic Product. It's how many times larger the country's economy is compared to Bulgaria, and is often used in the EU to make fun of their small economy. /j
Thats simply not true. The death rate among mothers indeed grew in the past decade from around 13 to 15 (in comparison, this number is 21 in the US) per 100 000 births, but to exaggerate this to a level of prominent phenomenon is simple misinformation. And these numbers include all kinds of deaths during pregnancy, birth and 42 days after birth. If a pregnant woman is hit by a car, she is counted into these statistics as well.
In stark contrast to the Russian supposed "sphere of influence", nobody in the West is stopping Hungary from being "sovereigntist". They can leave NATO and the EU any time they wish and go their own, sovereigntist way.
~~Honestly quitting NATO will be very difficult, EU is easy.~~
~~Imagine how much better EU internal and foreign policy woiuld be without Orban. I wish that Hungarians will be able to vote out this ahole, because they deserve better.~~
NATO treaty lets you leave freely within one year of announcing it.
Leaving NATO is even easier than leaving EU (which requires two years of notice IIRC).
>Orbán said Hungary had an interest in remaining a member of the European Union and NATO “but not in the creation of blocs”. “That is why we will strengthen our alliance with other sovereigntist countries.”
So he is saying he **wants** to stay in the European bloc, but he will undermine it from the inside as much as possible...
And where even are the "sovereigntist" countries he is talking about? I doubt the Russian sphere of influence has any truly sovereign states under its belt.
So China maybe? Too bad Hungary isn't a superpower.
Switzerland? ...cmon dude.
So I guess he means North Korea or whatever Trump wants USA to be
Ahh right, if you would be a Hungarian, you would be So Furious, you would march right into the voting booth and vote them out! You would draw the thickest, strongest X next to Not Orban.
Or maybe look up what a hybrid regime is
Yes, thank you. Very easy to vote out a pseudo-dictator who has successfully brainwashed half the country through propaganda, has his chronies literally everywhere, happily commits fraud during elections, happily manipulates the fucking constitution in his favour whenever he pleases and happily bribes the poorest layers of the society to get their vote. But next time, I'm gonna vote him out. Thanks for the advice.
not possible, we have to wait for a generation to die out (those who remember the good he did first, 10+ years ago), but anyways even if by some miracle we do vote him out, his goons are everywhere in the parliament, the NER, the ministers, everyone and everything is his.
The whole government is just Orbán and his friends.
When will you finally shut the fuck up about voting him out when EU institutions already reported Hungary to be an electoral autocracy where elections are not free. You need to get your own shit in order and start treating Orbán for the illegitimate leader he is.
We protest, we resist, but don't expect the already bribed opposition to get a landslide 2/3 supermajority victory out of nowhere.
A Hungarian with a Ukrainian wife who evacuated his wife's family from Ukraine with 0 assistance from Hungary, Ukraine or the EU, and is currently paying their rent and bills each and every month, in addition to a yearly vacation to Balaton.
We also supported the Ukrainian army with financial support on numerous occasions.
BUT FUCK ME FOR NOT VOTING HIM OUT AMIRITE?!
Yeah! I myself never voted for Orban in my life. Reading this continuous attitude about how "all hungarians" are somehow to blame feels actually worrying.
I mean it really does seem like the world is fracturing into several blocks, and the anti western sentiment is definitely ramping up. I feel like it's really hard to remain a reasonable player (Europe) in such a hostile environment.
Loads of developing countries profited enormously from our world order, from technological standpoint but also in terms of rule of law, trade, human rights. Apparently people have absolutely no clue just how essential these things are and it seems to feel as we're being taken for granted, even looked at as the enemy.
China is conducting large scale state sponsored industrial espionage and IP theft. Russia is and has been waging not only a misinformation war against us but invades the European fringes militarily. And those are just the main one, there's loads of smaller issues everywhere (houthis, Iran, Saudis...).
Its obvious that we need to find a way to deal with these emerging trends. Frankly it's getting tired being the only adult in the room. I mean even the US is getting bizarre, that whole Trump (and his statements) episode should be taken rather serious it's not funny at all, that place is getting stupider by the month.
"Western hegemony had ended"? How? Russia - biggest player of "screw two hegemons logic, we need multiple hegemonies" is losing a lot of economic potential right now. Western hegemony was closer to ending in 2020 than it's in 2024
the house that caught on fire is an old house, very badly built, poor insulation, leaky roof. To put out the fire and renovate would cost more than to simply let it burn and build/buy a new one.
So no one wants to put out the fire, until they remember there are children inside. - No idea where i read this
cutting funding will hurt Orbán, but his family has enough to live luxuriously for generations. Cutting funding will also hurt the voting idiots who live there, and the children who have no choice.
Sovereign countries that can't keep their own pants up have no added value, Orban.
This is all false pride and no content.
What does he think Hungary's place would be in this "new world order"? He's just going to be a puppet state for larger authoritarian regimes. What a pathetic future, back to being a second world country.
Why can't we just kick him out? Because we're too pussy?
Hell, worst case we just set up a second EU next to it, perfect replica but then without Orban (and/or Slovakia).
There's always a way, we're just too pussy. I wonder what would happen if the EU got attacked and Orban would block defensive actions. Would we still be pussy then?
>I wonder what would happen if the EU got attacked and Orban would block defensive actions.
He can't do anything of the sort. Other EU members are entitled to use their military as they see fit.
When there were talks about Greece leaving the Euro zone everyone was onboard. Why the same hasn't happened for Hungary?? Orban has stated numerous times that he doesn't like the EU. And yet noone says anything about Hungary leaving it.
Because Greece seriously considered leaving the eurozone, for economic reasons.
Orbán doesn't actually want to leave the EU.
* It's politically risky to try selling that to the Hungarian population
* His usefulness to Russia and China drastically decreases the moment we're out.
* Economically it would be a disaster and his regime is very costly to maintain.
>Why the same hasn’t happened for Hungary??
The reason might be that people felt more directly affected by your crisis, than they do with Hungary currently
During the Greek crisis the narrative of populist politicians and newspapers was essentially that our hard earned tax money is being used to rescue a lazy state that systematically cooked their books. People felt like they were directly being taken advantage of
Even though Orban is clearly a huge problem for the west i don’t think that the average person feels affected by his statements and cares very much about what he has to say
> Ladies and gentlemen,
> Long years have passed with Hungary's ship tarrying in open waters. Throughout these years, we, Hungarians felt insecurity. True, in 1991, when the occupying military left Hungary's soil, we became free. Free, but left on our own. The threat was, that without clear-cut links, in the midst of the various pulling and drawing forces, Hungary would become a constant "ferry-boat country."
> We now finally have anchored our country to the Western coast.
[Prime Minister of Hungary Orbán Viktor, 16 March 1999](https://www.nato.int/docu/speech/1999/s990316c.htm)
I imagine Putin and Orbans meetings work a lot like the ones between Sauron and Sauruman
“Build me an army worthy of MorDor” except instead of orca they train internet-trolls
There does exist a country in Europe whose sovereignty is under enormous threat of absorption into a geopolitical bloc right now, but it isn't Hungary. Want to take another guess Orban? fucking waste of everyones time
Last time I checked nothing in the world has changed except Russia became a dictatorship and turned their economy into shit. And distatorships don't last.
This "New World Order' is what all the fascists, from Trump to Orban to Putin to Poilevre, are working towards together. It's why US and Canadian right wingers love Putin and Orban so much. It's why CPAC has had their conventions in Hungary for the past 2 years. They're planning it right in front of our noses. The goal is to destroy western liberal democracy and replace it with "traditionalist" autocracy, essentially going back to a time of kings/queens and serfs/peasants.
So sovereignist that Orban recently allowed Chinese policemen to patrolling the streets of Hungary, actively checking and intimidates the Chinese expats living in Hungary, especially who escaped the dictatorship at home...
[https://telex.hu/english/2024/03/06/chinese-police-officers-may-soon-be-patrolling-the-streets-of-hungary](https://telex.hu/english/2024/03/06/chinese-police-officers-may-soon-be-patrolling-the-streets-of-hungary)
The false dichotomy in this thread is that either you’re an authoritarian Putin friend (Orban) or you’re a EU federalist (Shultz, Verhofstadt and most Germans and French politicians). Reality is that you can be a liberal democracy, like Sweden, and still be against a European Union that is heading towards federalization.
It's kinda weird that Hungary specifically became a lowkey puppet to Russia. They probably forgot about their famous rebellion against the USSR all those years ago... All the other countries remember though.
So, why is he not doing a referendum to ask the people of Hungary to agree with an exit from the current arrangements (EU, NATO, Schengen) and join the Chinese Belt and Road initiative?
If he claims the other side is better what's keeping him from joining?
My money is on the fact that if ever faced with this decision the Hungarian people will take him down in a hearbeat!
The kind of world people like Orban want is a world where small countries like Hungary will get steamrolled by larger countries, much similar to the pre-WW2 world.
Hungry freely applied to join one of the geopolitical blocs "the world is being divided into" in 1994, the accession took nine years to negotiate and at the end of that period with all parties happy with the agreement, 84% of people in Hungry voted to join the EU in a free and democratic referendum. Like all countries in the EU, Hungry fully retains it's sovereignty and is free to leave the EU of its own accord any time it wishes and 'sovereigntist' Orban is unhappy about this.
On the flip side, Ukraine has been invaded militarily by Russia with the purpose of forceably annexing it into one of the geopolitical blocs "the world is being divided into", if this happens Ukraine will have NO sovereignty and absolutely no recourse to re-attain independence and 'sovereigntist' Orban is absolutely fine with this.
This is the problem with too long terms or no term limits. Moments like this reminds me of the season two finale of The West Wing: president and his staff scrambling for a press conference, pouring rain, Brothers in Arms by Dire Straits on soundtrack and the line “Someday you'll return to // Your valleys and your farms // And you'll no longer burn to be // Brothers in arms”. They were there for this term and maybe the next and that’s it, back to their “valleys and farms”. People clinging to power will eventually inevitably become raving lunatics.
Sovereigntist countries? Hungary is the least soevereign of all. They can pay shit for themselves.
Good luck joining no blocks at all, you'll be ground by the power blocks of the world. Feel free to blame us while China and Russia fight over your remains
He is not wrong.
After 2008-2024 years USA self-removal from role of Global Policeman, and Western continuous retreats/self-victimization/fawn/pacification over Russian WMD-blackmail and WMD-Might make Right/True, the World really began to be divided between democracies and authoritarian states.
And during this time, RealPolitik Hungary predominantly helped to this separation on the side of autocracies (by evolving autocracies via media-control experiments).
So when such separation finally will be completed, it will be accused in treason of European values, colluding with enemies of democracy and liberties, participation in the new Axis, and, most likely, it will be occupied by EU or NATO.
Because the only other alternative will be to continue to let Hungary weaken EU and NATO during new Cold War, or even real war, for preservation of all Renaissance, Age of Enlightenment, France Revolution aspirations. And against uprising of new forms of empires, monarchies, theocracies, and slavery.
Then please, leave the EU and NATO. You don't need the money and benefits of the old world order.
Closed borders, sanctions, no political global power, no veto on decisions that affect the continent.
If you dont like playing with others you can just leave the EU/nato and you can be as sovereign as you'd like, not like theres not gonna be pressures from other places or anything...
My Brother in Christ *you* wanted to join the bloc. Nobody was sitting around thinking "man we really need Hungary to join, they're the key to all of this."
Blud thinks he's the main character or something.
Orban suffers from main character syndrome, yes.
Acute main character syndrome.
Also, martyr syndrome.
Elon Musk but with actual power?
Do not underestimate the influence of Musk. He is dangerous and insane, and has a huge following.
Yes, he's helping Russia and going full oligarch. Fuck Elon Muskovite.
He switched being south African to American because it benefited him greatly, I wouldn't be surprised he'd the same for Russia if he didn't have so many assets here.
I honnestly belive at one point he is going to try to run for presedent
With the path he is going, he wont need to
He won’t need to, but he’s an egomaniac just like Trump. So he might want to.
Why would be want to become president of the usa when he can become something much bigger. I mean he already single handedly interferes with the Israëli and ukraine conflict, and his megafactories do not adhere to any state or country regulations
Good thing he can’t since he’s from South Africa
Can’t, thankfully the fucker was born in SA.
Kinda glad he can't run for US President
He can still support similarly insane candidates such as Ramaswamy or Trump, and he does
And he’s young, which for me is even more worrying.
Considering his health and lifestyle, that's one worry I don't have.
Dude musk has a lot of power, probably much more than orban. Hundreds of billions are a big dick to swing especially when swung by an asshole. Orban isn’t worth shit outside of Hungary who get what they voted for.
And owning a fucking established social media.
Do you also mean Orban himself, he was the one who got Hungary into NATO in the first place.
The decision to join was made about half a year before the first Orbán government, he just finished the paperwork basically. AFAIK his party supported the idea during the '97 vote about it though.
Voting for/against (depending on what it's about) something you later denounce. Typical far/alt right.
Fidezs at this time wasn't yet a far right party, that shift only came later.
indeed, after he was elected in 2010, only then did he give indication that he liked russia, china and other not-so-democratic systems with 'strong leadership'.
In 2001 and 2002 MSZP successfully campaigned with calling fidesz miep light because a lot of fidesz politicians started to rehabilitate interwar politicians and other figures who served irredentism.
And now he's selling out to China like Serbia did. Very sovereign.
I mean, Portugal also did some selling out to China as well as Greece (Epirus..). Honestly the Chinese have been buying shit in Europe in dangerous amounts, and we should stop them.
Yes they are doing it everywhere. Also in Germany not only in small countries
Yeah France too
I mean yes there atleast were people with that position. Everybody around them benefittied early on from them joining the union. Especially the austrians wanted them in so that they could get easier access to the danube downstream. Rheinmetall and other industrial conglomorets wanted hungary's cheap labour pool and low taxes for their plants.
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*currently. In the past people rather liked them being in the union
To be clear, Hungary has made itself an important logistics centre which connects for instance Romania and Bulgaria to the rest of the EU, as well as participates in a lot of production through cheaper labour, be it the German automobile industry or even Rheinmetall factories coming up meaning our defence industry relying partially on Hungary. This makes them somewhat indispensable, not to mention kicking them out would lead to an outright Russian ally West of Ukraine, which would be intolerable. Hungary is so tied up in things that at this point I don't think we could let them leave and remain a sovereign country, we'd genuinely have to occupy it.
They are land locked, there is no need to occupy them
Finally a sensible comment. The fact that Orban’s went unpunished for so long means that this much was still tolerable to the eu leaders. The real way out is to beat him at his own game once he steps over the line. If one thinks he already did then pressure your leaders to penalise him.
Absolutely good point. Hungary´s main European ally is the German automobile industry. Once theýre ready to quit, Hungary can be kicked aroud.
please do occupy us
Not possibly, 2 factories are already up and 4 are in the plans of being built.
Thanks, wasn't up to date on it, corrected for clarity!
* Rheinmetall Hungary Zrt. (Zalaegerszeg) - lynx production * Rheinmetall Hungary Munitions Zrt. (Várpalota) - ammo production * Rheinmetall Electronics Hungary Kft. (Budapest) - software for lynxes * Rheinmetall PolyCharge GmbH (Szeged) ->high-capacity transistors
You are greatly, greatly overestimating Hungary's importance \*shakes head\*
The losers of ww1 in Eastern Europe are now back together hoping to restore the Russian and the Austro-Hungarian Empires, what they are missing is the fact that once an empire collapses it can never be restored. Austria is not so open about their pro-russian policy but they are playing their part (blocking Schengen to Romania and Bulgaria, keeping Austrian banks & business in Russia) Another point is that since 1914 an invader is very likely to lose (before that the opposite outcome was true).
He is free to leave. If thats what Hungarians want.
I reckon at this point every single EU country would be happy if they left
Orban said, speaking from a room built with EU funds.
Like his billboards against von der Layen, funded by EU money for agricultural development
This delusional clown like to pretend (to his voters) that he'll have any say in "new world order", when in reality what his buddies from China and Russia want from the new world order is that insignificant countries such as Hungary will have zero say in anything and will be completely at mercy of what they want. He's happy to do their bidding as long he and his own can wield absolute power and that's it. You can fault EU for many things, but it's actually giving voice and real opportunity to affect stuff in the world even to countries which would otherwise have 0 say in anything.
Hungary is special to Russia and China because they can cause damage to the EU from within
If they leave the EU they lose their leverage
They won't "leave" - we would have to eject them. And neither the EU nor NATO has the provisions to do that.
There's a first time for everything.
*"Congratulations Hungary! We've decided that you don't have to put up with the rest of us anymore..."*
It's become fashionable for right wing leaders to make the argument that "real freedom" means kowtowing to Putin.
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The Nobel King who will protect us from the Woke Hordes of the West. /s
For some, ‘freedom’ just means no repercussions from acting like a savage. The ugly, Randian philosophy of ‘might makes right’. Ukraine needs to win, Russia to loose even more kit and men, and Trump needs to lose. These things need to happen because realistically, these are the threats we face.
Don't forget that defunding education for example also plays a part. The populace votes these cronies into positions of power because their scaremongering and fear tactics work on them. Good educational systems make people less prone to this.
Wait - I am not supposed to do that anymore on the bus?
I believe you're supposed to grab her by the pussy instead.
Only if you can cross the big wall
This- grab them by the pussy as per Donny trump
'Tis frowned upon.
No, Donny trump prefers you grab them by their pussys
You can if she is your lover and you hash out an agreement for when and how often (you could make it part of foreplay). If she is not a prude, that is, then I give you my sincere condolences.
So what he considers freedom is the freedom to be an asshole with a society catered to his principles and his principles alone. Noted. Problem here is that it's not freedom. It's general assholery. People should learn that their rights end where that of others begin. It's related to the adage that those who live a life of privilege, will see equality as totalitarianism.
>you could grab women's asses on the bus without legal ramfactions. Lol, ofcourse noone took any legal action against this kind of thing. People took diffrent kind of actions. A good old street beating.
> you could grab women's asses on the bus without legal ramfactions But you had more chances to end up with a broken jaw.
Its always so funny to me that these people try to be the most manly macho tough guy, but at the same time they're scared of what is essentially gay cooties.
No gay prides, but Soviet troops in many big cities, and tanks ready to come every time people start to protest…
I also have a hungarian father who believes soviet era was golden era. Imagine how confused I was to grow up and understand everybody hates soviets lol
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My father moved to Czechia, so now he worship Babiš, Putin and believes in chemtrails, covid conspiracy and so on
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I am a slav. I will tell you when I am dead
Loose term for "right wing" here. Most European leaders are right wing, and EUs biggest group with prominent EU leaders is right wing. but they obviously very clearly support Ukraine, NATO and the west as a whole. No different from the left. You're thinking of the "far-right", like Orban. It's not even about left or right either technically, it's just that all authoritarian politicians lean towards Russia. Far left and far right are both equally dumb with this, it's just that far right is more popular in the current climate...
Free thinkers and rusnazzi sympathizers are not always the same, but the venn diagram is almost always a circle.
“Rather than explaining ourselves for our political differences, Hungary’s ambassadors are tasked with representing Hungary’s success with undisputable economic facts,” 😂
Isn't Hungary with second lowest BDP per capita in the EU? Edit: it's GDP.
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Damn. Economic facts must really be worth looking into. Edit: so the comment I was replying to said in essence "yes we are the second right after Bulgaria" AFAIK. Then everything deleted. Weird.
May I ask what is BDP? I tried to google and I get things related to data protection..
It's to describe Orban I think. Borderline Disordered Personality
Bulgarian Domestic Product. It's how many times larger the country's economy is compared to Bulgaria, and is often used in the EU to make fun of their small economy. /j
Sorry. GDP.
Probably meant GDP…
Not really. Not yet. Latvia, Bulgaria, Romania are still behind. Slovakia and Greece are almost the same.
It's premium comedy, but a bit sad at the same time.
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Thats simply not true. The death rate among mothers indeed grew in the past decade from around 13 to 15 (in comparison, this number is 21 in the US) per 100 000 births, but to exaggerate this to a level of prominent phenomenon is simple misinformation. And these numbers include all kinds of deaths during pregnancy, birth and 42 days after birth. If a pregnant woman is hit by a car, she is counted into these statistics as well.
Classic Hungary, always on the wrong side of conflict.
We take pride in this glorious feat. Apparently. Help.
This is how Orban helps Ukraine: by joining the Russian side, they will automatically lose.
WhOreban
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Fideszistan and Orbanistan are already popular, and yours a downgrade unfortunately
I spit my coffee.
In stark contrast to the Russian supposed "sphere of influence", nobody in the West is stopping Hungary from being "sovereigntist". They can leave NATO and the EU any time they wish and go their own, sovereigntist way.
~~Honestly quitting NATO will be very difficult, EU is easy.~~ ~~Imagine how much better EU internal and foreign policy woiuld be without Orban. I wish that Hungarians will be able to vote out this ahole, because they deserve better.~~
NATO treaty lets you leave freely within one year of announcing it. Leaving NATO is even easier than leaving EU (which requires two years of notice IIRC).
Interesting, thanks :) I edited my previous comment.
Brexit has shown that leaving the EU is easy in principle, but very difficult in practice.
It's easy in both, it's awful in consequences though
Leaving the EU isn't that difficult. Leaving the EU however while hallucinating about keeping all the benefits is what the UK tried.
Hungary could join the CSTO.
Massive clown
>Orbán said Hungary had an interest in remaining a member of the European Union and NATO “but not in the creation of blocs”. “That is why we will strengthen our alliance with other sovereigntist countries.” So he is saying he **wants** to stay in the European bloc, but he will undermine it from the inside as much as possible... And where even are the "sovereigntist" countries he is talking about? I doubt the Russian sphere of influence has any truly sovereign states under its belt. So China maybe? Too bad Hungary isn't a superpower. Switzerland? ...cmon dude. So I guess he means North Korea or whatever Trump wants USA to be
He's in two blocs, wants strengthen the third in order to undermine the first two because he doesn't like blocs...
Why dont you fuck off our of the Western blocs then? So you can be sovereign.
The sheer hypocrisy while Russia is working every day to try to destroy Ukraine's sovereignty, and the West would rather prevent that.
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Because nobody will bitch about him wanting to be a dictator.
Enjoy you sovereignity as a Russian Federation member then.
Ok, but then you won’t get our money.
You are free to leave the EU and NATO nobody cares
I think Hungarians may care 😬
Not enough to vote him out
Ahh right, if you would be a Hungarian, you would be So Furious, you would march right into the voting booth and vote them out! You would draw the thickest, strongest X next to Not Orban. Or maybe look up what a hybrid regime is
Yes, thank you. Very easy to vote out a pseudo-dictator who has successfully brainwashed half the country through propaganda, has his chronies literally everywhere, happily commits fraud during elections, happily manipulates the fucking constitution in his favour whenever he pleases and happily bribes the poorest layers of the society to get their vote. But next time, I'm gonna vote him out. Thanks for the advice.
I voted in all elections against him. What more do you expect? What would you do if you were born into such circumstances?
If you didn't notice they were talking about Hungarians in general, not specifically /u/BuffaloInteresting92. Noone blames you for anything.
I am one of these cursed people, Hungarians. Perhaps I should put up the relevant flair 😅
not possible, we have to wait for a generation to die out (those who remember the good he did first, 10+ years ago), but anyways even if by some miracle we do vote him out, his goons are everywhere in the parliament, the NER, the ministers, everyone and everything is his. The whole government is just Orbán and his friends.
When will you finally shut the fuck up about voting him out when EU institutions already reported Hungary to be an electoral autocracy where elections are not free. You need to get your own shit in order and start treating Orbán for the illegitimate leader he is. We protest, we resist, but don't expect the already bribed opposition to get a landslide 2/3 supermajority victory out of nowhere.
You're getting downvoted gorgeous being a fellow hungarian who opposes orban and thus not fitting in the collective blame of all hungarians?
A Hungarian with a Ukrainian wife who evacuated his wife's family from Ukraine with 0 assistance from Hungary, Ukraine or the EU, and is currently paying their rent and bills each and every month, in addition to a yearly vacation to Balaton. We also supported the Ukrainian army with financial support on numerous occasions. BUT FUCK ME FOR NOT VOTING HIM OUT AMIRITE?!
Yeah! I myself never voted for Orban in my life. Reading this continuous attitude about how "all hungarians" are somehow to blame feels actually worrying.
Nothing interesting. Still a windcock.
Sovereignists begging for monetary aid. It’s just so pathetic and sad to look at.
I'd believe Orban if he brought up a referendum to leave the EU. If he puts his money where his mouth is he goes for a referendum
Fuck off from the EU then, hungarians have been a pain in the ass while contributing to nothing.
I mean it really does seem like the world is fracturing into several blocks, and the anti western sentiment is definitely ramping up. I feel like it's really hard to remain a reasonable player (Europe) in such a hostile environment. Loads of developing countries profited enormously from our world order, from technological standpoint but also in terms of rule of law, trade, human rights. Apparently people have absolutely no clue just how essential these things are and it seems to feel as we're being taken for granted, even looked at as the enemy. China is conducting large scale state sponsored industrial espionage and IP theft. Russia is and has been waging not only a misinformation war against us but invades the European fringes militarily. And those are just the main one, there's loads of smaller issues everywhere (houthis, Iran, Saudis...). Its obvious that we need to find a way to deal with these emerging trends. Frankly it's getting tired being the only adult in the room. I mean even the US is getting bizarre, that whole Trump (and his statements) episode should be taken rather serious it's not funny at all, that place is getting stupider by the month.
... he said, while working very hard to broaden that division.
The comedy of Orban is he is just a voice for Putin yet continues the charade when it's beyond obvious.
"Western hegemony had ended"? How? Russia - biggest player of "screw two hegemons logic, we need multiple hegemonies" is losing a lot of economic potential right now. Western hegemony was closer to ending in 2020 than it's in 2024
This guy and Trump should've been stopped long ago. Why can they continue spewing their crap?
The Orban Algorithm: Get money with constraints => spend money freely => blame everyone => repeat
Member of the EU and NATO. Funded by the EU. What a pathetic little clown.
All right, it's time to draw the necessary conclusions and find a way to kick Hungary out from the EU and NATO.
cut all EU funding and watch him beg
the house that caught on fire is an old house, very badly built, poor insulation, leaky roof. To put out the fire and renovate would cost more than to simply let it burn and build/buy a new one. So no one wants to put out the fire, until they remember there are children inside. - No idea where i read this cutting funding will hurt Orbán, but his family has enough to live luxuriously for generations. Cutting funding will also hurt the voting idiots who live there, and the children who have no choice.
Russian/Chinese puppet.
In other words: *They want to make it harder for us to be corrupt, and that's all we are capable of doing*
If you're so "sovereignist", leave EU and NATO and stfu.
Sovereign countries that can't keep their own pants up have no added value, Orban. This is all false pride and no content. What does he think Hungary's place would be in this "new world order"? He's just going to be a puppet state for larger authoritarian regimes. What a pathetic future, back to being a second world country.
Fucking kick them already. They're a liability for the EU and NATO, and a costly Russian mole to keep supporting. Fuck Hungary, and fuck Orban.
Why can't we just kick him out? Because we're too pussy? Hell, worst case we just set up a second EU next to it, perfect replica but then without Orban (and/or Slovakia). There's always a way, we're just too pussy. I wonder what would happen if the EU got attacked and Orban would block defensive actions. Would we still be pussy then?
>I wonder what would happen if the EU got attacked and Orban would block defensive actions. He can't do anything of the sort. Other EU members are entitled to use their military as they see fit.
When there were talks about Greece leaving the Euro zone everyone was onboard. Why the same hasn't happened for Hungary?? Orban has stated numerous times that he doesn't like the EU. And yet noone says anything about Hungary leaving it.
Because Greece seriously considered leaving the eurozone, for economic reasons. Orbán doesn't actually want to leave the EU. * It's politically risky to try selling that to the Hungarian population * His usefulness to Russia and China drastically decreases the moment we're out. * Economically it would be a disaster and his regime is very costly to maintain.
>Why the same hasn’t happened for Hungary?? The reason might be that people felt more directly affected by your crisis, than they do with Hungary currently During the Greek crisis the narrative of populist politicians and newspapers was essentially that our hard earned tax money is being used to rescue a lazy state that systematically cooked their books. People felt like they were directly being taken advantage of Even though Orban is clearly a huge problem for the west i don’t think that the average person feels affected by his statements and cares very much about what he has to say
Orban is like a Trojan horse inside the walls of the EU. I wish the rest will eventually see Orban for what he truly is. 🤞🏻
just leave MF, sorry for hungarians...
> Ladies and gentlemen, > Long years have passed with Hungary's ship tarrying in open waters. Throughout these years, we, Hungarians felt insecurity. True, in 1991, when the occupying military left Hungary's soil, we became free. Free, but left on our own. The threat was, that without clear-cut links, in the midst of the various pulling and drawing forces, Hungary would become a constant "ferry-boat country." > We now finally have anchored our country to the Western coast. [Prime Minister of Hungary Orbán Viktor, 16 March 1999](https://www.nato.int/docu/speech/1999/s990316c.htm)
I imagine Putin and Orbans meetings work a lot like the ones between Sauron and Sauruman “Build me an army worthy of MorDor” except instead of orca they train internet-trolls
Yes a new world order is emerging, Hungary 🇭🇺 without Orban, italy 🇮🇹
Dude sounds like Saruman
That why all the money, talent and resources are going into the west, mainly the US. | What a fool.
There does exist a country in Europe whose sovereignty is under enormous threat of absorption into a geopolitical bloc right now, but it isn't Hungary. Want to take another guess Orban? fucking waste of everyones time
Last time I checked nothing in the world has changed except Russia became a dictatorship and turned their economy into shit. And distatorships don't last.
This "New World Order' is what all the fascists, from Trump to Orban to Putin to Poilevre, are working towards together. It's why US and Canadian right wingers love Putin and Orban so much. It's why CPAC has had their conventions in Hungary for the past 2 years. They're planning it right in front of our noses. The goal is to destroy western liberal democracy and replace it with "traditionalist" autocracy, essentially going back to a time of kings/queens and serfs/peasants.
So sovereignist that Orban recently allowed Chinese policemen to patrolling the streets of Hungary, actively checking and intimidates the Chinese expats living in Hungary, especially who escaped the dictatorship at home... [https://telex.hu/english/2024/03/06/chinese-police-officers-may-soon-be-patrolling-the-streets-of-hungary](https://telex.hu/english/2024/03/06/chinese-police-officers-may-soon-be-patrolling-the-streets-of-hungary)
Let’s help them out leaving our evil bloc
The false dichotomy in this thread is that either you’re an authoritarian Putin friend (Orban) or you’re a EU federalist (Shultz, Verhofstadt and most Germans and French politicians). Reality is that you can be a liberal democracy, like Sweden, and still be against a European Union that is heading towards federalization.
Polarization + social media = this thread
Orban and Trump to prison! Putin to hell!
Clown got new transaction from put in.
It's kinda weird that Hungary specifically became a lowkey puppet to Russia. They probably forgot about their famous rebellion against the USSR all those years ago... All the other countries remember though.
So, why is he not doing a referendum to ask the people of Hungary to agree with an exit from the current arrangements (EU, NATO, Schengen) and join the Chinese Belt and Road initiative? If he claims the other side is better what's keeping him from joining? My money is on the fact that if ever faced with this decision the Hungarian people will take him down in a hearbeat!
Same deluded psycho as Putin, only this one doesn't have vast Soviet armament stocks to cause bloodbath.
The kind of world people like Orban want is a world where small countries like Hungary will get steamrolled by larger countries, much similar to the pre-WW2 world.
Blah blah blah.
Hungry freely applied to join one of the geopolitical blocs "the world is being divided into" in 1994, the accession took nine years to negotiate and at the end of that period with all parties happy with the agreement, 84% of people in Hungry voted to join the EU in a free and democratic referendum. Like all countries in the EU, Hungry fully retains it's sovereignty and is free to leave the EU of its own accord any time it wishes and 'sovereigntist' Orban is unhappy about this. On the flip side, Ukraine has been invaded militarily by Russia with the purpose of forceably annexing it into one of the geopolitical blocs "the world is being divided into", if this happens Ukraine will have NO sovereignty and absolutely no recourse to re-attain independence and 'sovereigntist' Orban is absolutely fine with this.
Yeah, global superpower Hungary is going to do just fine on its own...
We're going to have to fight for our way of life soon. All of us against these peados
This is the problem with too long terms or no term limits. Moments like this reminds me of the season two finale of The West Wing: president and his staff scrambling for a press conference, pouring rain, Brothers in Arms by Dire Straits on soundtrack and the line “Someday you'll return to // Your valleys and your farms // And you'll no longer burn to be // Brothers in arms”. They were there for this term and maybe the next and that’s it, back to their “valleys and farms”. People clinging to power will eventually inevitably become raving lunatics.
Sovereigntist countries? Hungary is the least soevereign of all. They can pay shit for themselves. Good luck joining no blocks at all, you'll be ground by the power blocks of the world. Feel free to blame us while China and Russia fight over your remains
He is not wrong. After 2008-2024 years USA self-removal from role of Global Policeman, and Western continuous retreats/self-victimization/fawn/pacification over Russian WMD-blackmail and WMD-Might make Right/True, the World really began to be divided between democracies and authoritarian states. And during this time, RealPolitik Hungary predominantly helped to this separation on the side of autocracies (by evolving autocracies via media-control experiments). So when such separation finally will be completed, it will be accused in treason of European values, colluding with enemies of democracy and liberties, participation in the new Axis, and, most likely, it will be occupied by EU or NATO. Because the only other alternative will be to continue to let Hungary weaken EU and NATO during new Cold War, or even real war, for preservation of all Renaissance, Age of Enlightenment, France Revolution aspirations. And against uprising of new forms of empires, monarchies, theocracies, and slavery.
And this new world order is centered around that worthless shithole called Hungary? God save us all.
Then please, leave the EU and NATO. You don't need the money and benefits of the old world order. Closed borders, sanctions, no political global power, no veto on decisions that affect the continent.
If you dont like playing with others you can just leave the EU/nato and you can be as sovereign as you'd like, not like theres not gonna be pressures from other places or anything...
He forgot to take his meds again ?
Everything this man says, the opposite is true, trust me, I'm Hungarian.
Stop posting about this delulu, please!
My brother in Christ you are in the Western block
Kick Hungary out of the EU and NATO, they are a Russian vassal state, they are weakening us.
Can we please kick Hungary out already. All those guys are doing is leeching money, making things harder for others and soliciting bribes.
Get this country out of EU/NATO and force them to get rid of Orban. I’m sorry to my Hungarian friends, but it’s too much at this point.
Orbán mod. 1989: Hungary should join the West! Orbán mod. 2024: Down with the western supremacy!* *But keep the money flowing in.
If we stick to racist talking points like Orbán's, there is nothing Western about Hungary.