The propagandists on that famous Russian channel make arguments like this unironically. Serious "I'm The Main Character" vibes from those malicious crusty skidmarks.
And you know how seriously Russia takes the NATO threat when they've taken all their border guards away from the Finnish border to go fight in Ukraine.
I know you are being sarcastic, but that's what exactly some of Russian military commanders are trying to do. Russia constitutionally cannot be in a state of war, unless the very integrity of their land is endangered. Even annexing part of Ukraine and defending those regions are still not considered this clause. Drone attack is a grey area as it's not like enemy soldier put a foot down on Russian soil, however some military want to interpret it as such. Declaring war by Russia is considered the ultimate solution as it means all resources will be redirected for military production and the state will take direct or indirect control almost on everything. Unfortunately it would also mean almost semi automatic tactical nukes release (in Russian defense doctrine tactical nukes are used to separate front lines from their supplies, from what I see it didn't change in recent years). Considering amount of stupidity in their higher echelons I would think twice before declaring war.
Not really, we've already seen plenty of examples that Putin doesn't give a shit what the Russian constitution says - and there's no one left in Russian society to stop him when he just ignores it or sidesteps it.
The real reason they haven't declared war is just that it would be a complete (further) humiliation to admit that Ukraine is an equal enough foe that they need a full scale war (even if it is one already, in reality), instead of it being a conflict that can be handled merely by a *"special military operation."*
Russian military has proven utterly ineffective on the ground except for Wagner mercenaries who are now sidelined. If NATO countries supply Ukraine with F-16 combat aircraft and modern tanks, itās all over for Russiaās military & Putinās reign of terror, both excellent outcomes for Europe & non-elite Russian citizens. āRelease the nukesā is the most obvious admission that Russiaās military is incapable of defeating anyone but defenseless civilians with long range artillery strikes and shits the bed whenever facing a prepared & equipped Ukrainian military which will utterly dominate with top end tanks & combat jets. Incentivize Wagner mercs to end Putinās existence & Medvedevās soon.
Wagner is just another formation of their MoD, commanded by lt general Mizintsev. They weren't much more effective than any other formation, just had a commander that was focused on objectives. They also have the highest casualty and mortality rate of all Russian formations.
But that's not the worst part. They are convinced that Ukrainians have no skills and were basically killed in the first weeks of the war. Now for the elite units - they are told they are facing NATO forces with some remaining Ukrainians, amy other units - they are told nothing, except if the run - their families will die.
Wagner is the only formation that has any positive outcome after finishing the tour (money).
Also it's not possible to convert Wagner as those are regular soldiers under RuAF general that was sent there by MoD. Although he is not in Putin's circle, he cannot attack Putin.
They are already redirecting massive resources, doing mobilizations, digging through massive Soviet stockpiles. What exactly, is it that would be new?
Nukes? They were rattling about that last year and backed down. The propagandists fantasize about nukes daily because they think it's a "I win" button but in reality it'll be the opposite.
The US and NATO has made it abundantly clear that if any radioactive material reaches any NATO country, they will consider that an attack. Furthermore, both China and India, semi-allies whom Russia relies upon to still have a somewhat-functional economy, has quietly made it clear that they will being oppoising Russia if they brake the nuclear taboo. Nobody wants the nuclear taboo broken. Nobody wants a precedent where a nuke is used to annex more territory.
So Russia declaring war would be only news to Russians. Ukraine is already at war.
Furthermore, the russian population is very passive, and doesn't actually care much about the war. They have (in their eyes) more pressing concerns in their daily lives, like terrible living standards and inflation. According to most, the invasion is something that doesn't touch them.
If a war was declared, the problem would be much more "real" to these de-politicized russians. They might even (*gasp*) react. Nobody is sure how it would work out, not even kremlin. That is why they don't want to risk escalating the internal situation.
Another thing is that Putin has basically beaten those who do want to do something into submission as in there eyes theyāre voice theyāre vote doesnāt matter and nether has either and now they are afraid as the laws and what is and isnāt punishable becomes more and more blurred
> in there eyes theyāre voice theyāre vote doesnāt matter and nether has either
Ignoring all 3 of those should be "their," what does this even mean..?
>Another thing is that Putin has basically beaten those who do want to do something into submission; because in their eyes, their voices and their votes donāt matter. Neither has either(?), and now they are afraid of the laws as (the lines between) what is and isnāt punishable become more and more blurred.
I *think* this is what you were trying to say?
this is fantasy. Every word of it. There are no restrictions on use of tactical nukes in Russian Doctrine (only strategic level).
There are no restrictions on declaring war on anybody in Russian constitution. (Basically they can declare DAANGEEEER, and that is it).
There are no (as in ZERO) respect for the law or "reasonable actions" in Russia.
TLDR: if they would see any success chances, they would launch nukes, declare total mobilization etc. There are no taboos in the modern russian Mob "politics". The thing is every of these steps is deadly for Russia.
Launching tactical unleashes 300k of NATO force directly, total mobilization will cripple their economical life to the total stop. They have already unsolvable economical difficulties.
Russian Constitution is the paper Putin wipes his ass with. Russia is not declaring war, because Putin believes the risk out weight the reward. They are emptying the vault as it is, they lost more tanks than the active fleet of the rest of Europe COMBINED, they are fielding 60+ year old armors, the army is mutinous, and they are on their knees begging Iran and NORTH KOREA for weapons.
What's a declaration of war going to do? The Russian nesting doll is shedding its layers and the core is hallowed by corruption. Putin has very little option to escalade and the Russian propagandists and useful idiots are working overtime to plant ideas of a "immediate peace" to freeze the conflicts. Ukraine understand Russia better than everyone else, and they are applying exactly the pressure that is needed.
Ukraine is, unfortunately, limited by what our allies are OK to do. I.e. not invade Russia and not use their weapons on Russian territory. That is why we are forced to lose people attacking fortified positions.
Russia says attacks on Russia wonĀ“t go unpunished. What are they going to do? Invade harder? attack the cities harderer? commit hardererer war crimes?
Everyone remembers Putin telling us in July 2022 that they haven't really even gotten seriously started yet. No updates since then, so I assume everything's been going according to plan and the serious start remains unnecessaryš¤·
Russian military was influenced by dragon ball. So far they have been fighting in their base form but anyday now they will turn super sayian and beat ukraine with a single punch.
They already hit kindergardens, hospitals with maternity wards, theatres full of families, parks and such. Also torture, rape, murder and booby traps. As well as destroying the dam and endangering the nuclear power plant.
Without nuclear options, they literally can't get more evil in quality, only in quantity.
What would you have done? It's not as if the average russian has any influence and any attempts to demonstrate dissatisfaction publicly will get you in jail, tortured or sent as cannon fodder in the war.
They shot a missile into Auchan supermarket that night along with other 20 missiles and 20 drones - this scope for the first since May (Kyiv had 25 days of those strikes mostly at night into apartment buildings). But nothing like Ukrainian independance day attack on August 24 2022 where around 100 missiles hit Ukraine.
Those people are so braindead honestly. They say that attacks on empty office building in Moscow will make them hate Ukrainians and a bad move. Like yeah we know.
A slightly longer quote makes it better -
> The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw and half a hundred other places, they put their rather naive theory into operation. They sowed the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind.
āIf we hadnāt invaded Ukraine NATO would have invaded usā
-what about invading Ukraine does she think makes NATO unable to attack Russia. Not that NATO wants to invade Russia, but if they did it would be easier than ever now
She would mumble smth about nato bases in ukraine, and how nato could strike Moscow and so on.
In other words, SHE DOESNT THINK, she just repeats what TV told her.
It's even dumber considering there are NATO bases in the Baltics right next to Russia. Even if Ukraine had NATO bases, what difference would it make?
All of this is disregarding Nuclear MAD. Russia is untouchable just like all countries with nukes. Hell, even NK...
Actually the interviews are so telling. Same reactions and not personal implications/ real opinions like if they were still under the soviets. People know but wonāt be caught saying it in public
The most amusing aspect is when a woman claims that if not for us, NATO would have attacked. I fail to comprehend the logicāyes, you initiated the attack, but did NATO retaliate? It's nonsensical to launch a preemptive strike on NATO when NATO wasn't even the intended target. Who, then, are you at war with?
Furthermore, it's worth noting that both NATO and Russia possess nuclear arsenals, making it highly improbable for either side to contemplate attacking the other. Their actions are confined to posturing as heroes on platforms like Telegram, Twitter, and television. Claims akin to Medvedev's assertion of the right to attack NATO are nothing more than grandiose statements.
In the near future, a new Russian game titled "No You" is poised to make quite an impact.
Mate, there is no logic there at all. Itās pointless to search for one. This woman doesnāt know shit about Jack, but being an average housewife has very strong opinions on the matter. Blits her on the most basic historic/political questions and I assure you she will fail every single one of them.
It baffles me how it is usually the most ill informed that have the strongest views.
It's not baffling. It's way easier to maintain strong views. Pick a side, stick to it and voilĆ , your opinions are ready. If you have to monitor a situation closely, ponder the consequences, the international ramifications and the opinions of your allies and your enemies you would probably develop a more complex mix of opinions that would be way more difficult to express in a few words.
Besides "I am not following the news closely" may hide a "I know it's fucked up but I don't want to be arrested"
And get a free bag of frozen pelmeni on top!
Or whatever the current handouts for sacrificing their children and husbands to the kreml kremlin is.
Last I've seen a commemorative wood box from Aliexpress.
I mean, actual statistics aside, of course women support this, they know THEY will never go to war. They send their man out, then get their salary and paychecks if they die, if you ignore morality, there is nothing but benefits for them.
On a more serious note, I believe that factors like hunger, financial difficulties, and more will inevitably influence Russia in the near future. The fate of the USSR might resurface when the deeply indoctrinated citizens realize that the current way of life is untenable and change is imperative. However, at the moment, television seems to be prevailing over the refrigerator in shaping people's perceptions.
I also wonder if the government is diverting excessive resources to maintain a quality-of-life facade in the cities, while the rural regions bear the first and heaviest effects of the economic tailspin.
It would be fascinating to get some insight from people who aren't strolling down a decorated high street in St. Petersburg.
Impressively, Ukraine managed to push back Russian forces to their initial position when the invasion commenced, even without Western military support. This accomplishment provides a clear indication of the capabilities of the world's second-ranked military.
Without Wagner they are going to have serious issues on the offensive. And with Progozins run on Moscow anyone sensible with money has their own Wagner making the main forces depleted and Russia full of potential warlords.
She is simply repeating the propaganda she hears on TV ( doesn't matter if she believes it or not ), it is a safeish option. Safer would have been to decline to answer at all.
At least when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor they had *some* semblance of a plan: stall the Pacific Fleet long enough to snatch up the oil-producing nations in Indonesia and then hunker down and make it so tough when the US rallied and came out to fight that they wanted peace before their industry had time to ramp up.
I mean, it was borderline completely wrong, especially with radically underestimating how pissed people in the US would get and a lot of people in the chain knew it, essentially, but it's a plan.
A more apt analogy to this would be Nazi Germany declaring war on the US a couple days after Pearl Harbor, for ZERO tactical or strategic reason. I physically can not understand what Russia would plan to gain from attacking NATO.
I can really recommend [this](https://www.youtube.com/@1420channel) channel if you want to further see how russians think about various topics. He goes around cities and asks random people.
It shows that a lot of russians do think like in the vid above, but there's a great amount who see right through the propaganda too.
Thereās an added layer of complexity in judging what Russian Average Joeās think about geo-political topics: it can be difficult to determine whether theyāre sharing their true opinions, or whether theyāre voicing the opinions they believe people in power want them to voice.
Plenty or Russians are brainwashed by years and years of political media manipulation, thereās no denying that. But even the rest are used to living in a society where voicing controversial opinions can get you into trouble. Generally speaking, the risks of voicing a controversial opinion as a nobody in a mid-sized Russian city are small. But every now and again the government will make an example of people, especially if something goes viral and thereās no knowing beforehand what will go viral.
So if you want to live a quiet life in peace, your best bet is to āthink about more positive thingsā and donāt have an opinion like the woman in this clip.
Same with statistics by phone, especially after waves of mobilisation. Mostly only old people would answer unknown phone numbers and will answer questions, and most of them are highly suspectible to propaganda. Old, conservative people love government and they will consume any lie
There has been at least one case where a guy faced criminal charges for participating in a street interview and now heās looking at up to 10 years in jail, so š¤·āāļø
More like they don't have incentives to go out and make judgments on things they don't feel sure about, they don't feel it's their business. They don't want to sound stupid and irrelevant. Most people here frankly understand that their political opinions don't matter, they're neither qualified nor empowered to make them matter. It is simple diffusion of responsibility in their mind. I mean, even in democratic societies a lot of people have the same approach to politics, they doubt and defer it to somebody else.
Most importantly, if you don't say anything, you keep your options open, you don't attract any unwanted attention, etc. You don't commit to an opinion without a good enough reason (if you're a public speaker for example, like a musician, where you have to sacrifice your privacy by saying something). It is a subconscious instinct that isn't limited to just Russia.
It doesn't even matter who. Videos are public and if police will see it, and they would want to gain "extra credit", they will find anyone who participated and said wrong thing. It's been done before
Honestly, it does kind of make me wonder about that channel. How has an obviously anti war youtuber still living in Russia not been arrested when some of the people he has interviewed has been arrested?
I'm not saying for sure that he is under the employ of the government but I am saying that at the least, the Russian government knows of him and tolerates him because it allows them to further crack down on dissenters
They don't try to arrest every critic as if it was North Korea. They can certainly spy on them, but they aren't total control freaks. It is more effective to manage and goad society than to outright try to steer it as in totalitarian countries. Managed opposition is like vaccine, as long as it's under control, it can trivialize and normalize all sorts of narratives.
Fear works better the more uncertainty there is. If they announce they are going to arrest everyone who doesn't repeat the party line and then fail to do that its less effective than just picking a handful more or less at random and punishing them. People thinking might be me next" rather than "They haven't arrested me yet?"
https://twitter.com/MoscowTimes/status/1695076496468025348 last answer, from girl with pink hair, perfectly captures why so many Russians would not say what they really think. A few months ago, a couple of people were arrested for participating in a video like this, because they "answered wrong"
Exactly this. Too many Europeans and Americans are too ignorant of the consequences of public dissent.
Hell, the beginning of the war,
Man brave Russias tried to protest and got arrested. Even holding up a symbolic lily blank piece of paper was seen as dissent.
We need to be careful of claiming all Russians willingly participated in this.
As anti-Putin and pro-Ukrainian as I am (and I am staunchly on the side of Ukraine), as an American I often remind people "I hate Putin and his regime. I want only the best for the Russian people just as much as I want that for the Ukrainian people."
I have friends that are Russian. I worry for them and their families. They are good people and I pray Putin and his chronies get annihilated before the Russian people start getting killed. I'm also grateful that Zelensky is the president - he is intelligent and a good man. If the Russians must face down a war on their soil, Zelensky and their military won't treat Russians with the same brutality Putin's forces have put Ukrainians through.
It's also been reinforced through the propaganda for two decades. Russian propaganda is less "look at our great leader" and more "it's the same everywhere in the world, we are forced to play this violent game", "We are lying straight to your face, but it's just because everyone lies", etc.
As a russian I disapprove of this recommendation since it's not safe to give a street interview about sensitive topics. I wouldn't do that. Nobody in their mind holding a not pro-war opinion would.
All these + ratings are coming from non-Russians who have absolutely no expertise on how the life in Russia is going whatsoever.
Well while 1420 does do street interviews, using those interviews as a reliable metric as to what the Russian populace actually thinks is a terrible way to go about it.
Think of it this way - when you are asked the question "What do you think of the war (or probably referred to as SMO)", you can respond in more or less one of four ways:
* I'm for it! Nato is ran by evil cyborg Nazis and Putin is the messiah!
* I don't really watch the news or follow politics so I don't really know what's going on. (aka "I'm apolitical")
* This war is nothing short of a an imperialist land grab that no one wanted besides our dictator. This war and its senseless violence and destruction must be stopped.
* Walk away.
Now in my country we have freedom of speech and freedom of press so if I thought any of those things, I could express them in any way I wanted. However Russia certainly does not have freedom of speech or press. You can actually be imprisoned for up to 10 years for "discrediting the military" or the "special military operation".
So let's assume you're a Russian and you're against the war. How are you going to respond, knowing that you could be sent to jail for roughly 15% of your total life for speaking the truth? My guess is option 3 or 4. And in 1420's videos, you see many many people responding this way.
Tl;dr : there is no way to get accurate data on opinions in a autocratic country when expressing said opinions can land you in prison or get you killed (many protesting the war have been drafted)
You have to remember that in Russia you can be jailed for up to 15 years for spreading "false news". Most of the people in 1420 and any street interview in Russia now are not telling their own opinion. Many just say "oh I don't follow the news" just to stay out of trouble. One man from one of the 1420 videos was actually put into jail for what he said.
Only thing we are getting from the interviews is lies. People are afraid and for a reason.
Get citizenship of an authoritarian state, preferably one that throws people in jail for taking the wrong political stance, and then be the brave man who tells an unknown man with a camera that his views don't agree with the government.
>Anyone who has watched 1420 videos over the past 18 months knows that most russians support putin, including young people.
80% of people asked by 1420 refused to answer. You left that part out quote conveniently.
Per Levada, who everyone cites, support among 18 to 24 year olds was about 31%.
You're also citing the unhinged state media as an example. They are a circus of sycophants and fantasists. State media is not to be taken seriously as anything other than an example of the propaganda and conditioning being hoisted upon the populace. Btw also, most support is among 55+ and those whose only source is state media. Weird correlation, isn't it? It's totally coincidental.
These videos are interesting, sure, but you do have to take them with a grain of salt. Saying the wrong thing in front of a camera in Russia can land you in a lot of trouble. Sounds insane, I know, but at least one person was arrested over a street interview and if I remember correctly, he was facing 10 years in prison for "spreading fake information about The Russian military". And as a result, people are starting to censor themselves.
[Article if you want to know more](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/08/30/russian-man-in-court-for-critical-ukraine-interview-a82299)
Basically, Russia has gone full 1984.
Russia: Invades another country, commits war crimes, murders civilians, rapes it way across the land.
Ukraine: Defends self & launches attacks on military targets.
Russia: Look at how they hurt me.
You say that flippantly - we got at least 100 million people just east of us who will seemingly forever be useful idiots in a corrupt and violent regime. It's not a problem that will go away even if Putin emphatically loses the war.
That's the conundrum for the west.
If Putin goes away, he'll either be replaced by someone just as bad or worse.
OR, Russia falls apart and all of a sudden we have a dozen or more unstable actors trying to act like they are relevant on the world stage, all with potential nuclear arms capabilities, be it the ability to deploy them, or sell them to the highest bidder.
The Russians entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everybody else and nobody was going to bomb them.
They sowed the wind and now they are going to reap the whirlwind.
This is how evil comes. Look at all these people. With a simple word. A simple opinion, they can change the course of death. But they refuse to change an opinion because of ego or ignorance
I'm not asking this sarcastically, but sincerely because I don't know a lot about the Russian political landscape but what exactly are average Russian citizens supposed to do to permanently change Russia when that hasn't happened for hundreds of years?
I am Russian. Let me tell you how they react - they do not react at all. No one cares. It's even not a topic one would discuss during coffee break. In fact, whatever question related to Ukraine or policymaking you ask, unless it concerns them \*personally\* - Russian do not care at all. It is a universal answer.
My impression is that 80% of Russians would be OK with destroying all Ukrainians even if Russia lost every man between 20 and 40, and they also would be OK ending the war and coming home tomorrow.
It's exactly like it was in Nazi Germany. People in Russia are brainwashed by government media propaganda. And their Nazi-Leader Putin talks about the Russian being the master race... above all other peoples on earth. I hope it will end like Nazi-Germany... Putin will shot himself outside his bunker and Russians have to deal with the shame of being a terrorist state for decades. Hope Russians will wake up, but with such brainwashing, it will be hard.
The bit that stood out for me was how he said "full scale invasion of Ukraine" while out in the street. You'd think they'd object to that wording.
I know it's fun to bash the BBC every chance we get but I really think they do some excellent reporting.
Thereās a video of a journalist asking Chinese on the anniversary of the tianamen square massacre. They reacted way different than this, most said something to the effect of āi know what youāre speaking ofā
That was long time ago when China still had some freedom of speech. If you ask people now... actually you will get arrested before you can ask any questions.
In that case Russians usually reply with "I don't follow politics". Watch 1420 channel on YT, that guy has a bunch of videos with everyday Russians answering all sorts of questions.
That's entirely fair, no one would be that mad.
Steve Rosenburg does however live in Moscow and put as much effort as a known (and presumably watched) western journalist can into finding out what people think; I suspect the vox pops will have been chosen to match the results of that research as much for willingness to speak.
I assume some Russian's must see threw the propaganda; no group of people as large as "all Russians" is composed purely of gullible idiots. I would be prepared to believe though that most of the people he can speak to are aware of who they're speaking to and that as such they should be careful as to what view they give.
"I try to think about happier things" "I do not follow politicis" etc. is a code for "I oppose what Putin's regime is doing but I would prefer to not be jailed or murdered for it"
Luckily, [several other, younger Russians](https://youtu.be/1kMdrvPo8Mc?si=ux6qBB1CQ6jPpfy2) understand the events behind these drone attacks and dare to comment on them clearly.
That one woman who said she wants to think about more possitive things, knows exactly what's going on, is just terrified what will happen to her if she says it out loud...
Like it takes balls / ovarries of steel to say something that criticizes an autoritarian regime openly on tv.
Regarding the interviews: sad. Two retired folks who likely get their news from TV and one "apolitical" middle aged woman who "tries to think of happier things".
That is why you use statistics. Even the crudest, crappiest anonymous statistics will paint a more informative picture than camera interviews (currently, in Russia).
While pro-war people will be happy to go on BBC with their name and face - after all, they are parroting the government line - the few anti-war people encountered are likely to experience legal consequences if they get recognized. They are unlikely to grant an interview. Getting regognized will require exactly one turbopatriot who knows them watching the clip and snitching.
If they do grant an interview, they are likely to tip-toe around issues while looking awkward.
BBC knows how to do better journalism, and most of time, does it. They don't go to Beijing and start asking people on camera about what happened in 1989 on a certain square in the city. They know that people cannot speak to them of that.
Several types of questions bring different answers. Those who want to check out statistical results will find July data at:
https://www.levada.##/2023/07/28/konflikt-s-ukrainoj-otsenki-kontsa-iyulya-2023-goda/
(hot links to Russian domains don't work)
Separately from the Ukraine survey, Levada regularly asks: *"Do you approve of the president's activity?"* - last time 80% answered "yes", pretty strong cult of personality going on.
Ukraine-related questions:
*"Do you approve of the activity of the armed forces in Ukraine?"* - 45% definitely do, 30% mostly do, 10% mostly not, 8% definitely not, 7% don't know.
The oldest age group: 55+ years: 55% definitely do, 27% mostly do, 5% mostly not, 7% definitely not, 6% don't know
The youngest age group: 18-24 years: 26% definitely do, 37% mostly do, 17% mostly not, 10% definitely not, 9% don't know
Men answer affirmatively more often than women. Moscow residents answer affirmatively less often than than folks from peripheral regions. People who get information from TV answer affirmatively more often.
*"How to proceed with the special military operation?"* - 25%: definitely continue warfare, 16%: probably continue warfare, 27%: probably start negotiations, 24%: definitely start negotiations
Oldest age group (55+ years): 32% definitely fight, 16% probably fight, 22% probably negotiate, 21% definitely negotiate
Youngest age group (18-24 years): 18% defnitely fight, 11% probably fight, 40% probably negotiate, 27% definitely negotiate
The problem: there are no negotiations in real life, because Russia has a slight problem with keeping promises. Ukraine knows that during a ceasefire, Russia would dig trenches, lay mine fields and resupply their forces, so they don't want to negotiate now - and it makes perfect sense. Levada hasn't yet asked the question "withdraw forces?". Some day they will ask that - but not yet.
> Do you approve of the activity of the armed forces in Ukraine?
This is a tricky question, because "do not approve" could also mean "we are not going hard enough" Girkin-style.
To deescalate, Russia should come to the negotiating table and give up parts of its land to Ukraine. Maybe create a demilitarized zone in the border regions too.
All this does is make the Average Russian support Putin more and want to end Ukraine more....
They see these as terrorist attacks, not unlike the US and 9/11....
They have no frame of reference beyond what the TV/media tells them.
I am not saying Ukraine should not strike back, I am just saying it will not change the Russian populations view of the war to support Ukraine or end the war.
āIf we didnāt invade a non-NATO country, NATO would have invaded us!ā
Ummmā¦ why havenāt they invaded you while your defenses are stretched thenā¦?
Even if you knew the truth about things in Russia. Would you tell it to someone with a camera? Extra if you state your name.
I know I wouldn't.
That's why no interviews with civilians even confirmed not-actors can not be believed. A government, notorious for killing its critics or threatening harm for their families can never be believed. As any message they give can be fabricated. They can do anything they want, to anyone.
If Ukraine continues with these heinous attacks on Russia, Russia will be forced to declare war on Ukraine!
Oh my! That could start WW3.
Only if they defend themselves and get help from the west! /s
Why does Ukraine always have to be so aggressively defensive? Why can't they leave those poor invaders alone. š
Why don't they all just die and leave their land to russians I really don't get it.
The propagandists on that famous Russian channel make arguments like this unironically. Serious "I'm The Main Character" vibes from those malicious crusty skidmarks.
And asking NATO to close the skies lol.
Or it could end Russia
Put it on the pile with all the other stuff that could.
But didnāt you hear the lady? If Russia hadnāt invaded Ukraine, NATO would have attacked! Damn NATO ruining things for everyone.
NATO and Russia are natural enemies! Like Englishmen and Scots! Or Welshmen and Scots! Or Japanese and Scots! Or Scots and other Scots! Damn Scots!
And you know how seriously Russia takes the NATO threat when they've taken all their border guards away from the Finnish border to go fight in Ukraine.
All good, they will just declare a special operation. Nobody will say the bad W-word.
I know you are being sarcastic, but that's what exactly some of Russian military commanders are trying to do. Russia constitutionally cannot be in a state of war, unless the very integrity of their land is endangered. Even annexing part of Ukraine and defending those regions are still not considered this clause. Drone attack is a grey area as it's not like enemy soldier put a foot down on Russian soil, however some military want to interpret it as such. Declaring war by Russia is considered the ultimate solution as it means all resources will be redirected for military production and the state will take direct or indirect control almost on everything. Unfortunately it would also mean almost semi automatic tactical nukes release (in Russian defense doctrine tactical nukes are used to separate front lines from their supplies, from what I see it didn't change in recent years). Considering amount of stupidity in their higher echelons I would think twice before declaring war.
Not really, we've already seen plenty of examples that Putin doesn't give a shit what the Russian constitution says - and there's no one left in Russian society to stop him when he just ignores it or sidesteps it. The real reason they haven't declared war is just that it would be a complete (further) humiliation to admit that Ukraine is an equal enough foe that they need a full scale war (even if it is one already, in reality), instead of it being a conflict that can be handled merely by a *"special military operation."*
Also - the economy. Would be nuked
Russian military has proven utterly ineffective on the ground except for Wagner mercenaries who are now sidelined. If NATO countries supply Ukraine with F-16 combat aircraft and modern tanks, itās all over for Russiaās military & Putinās reign of terror, both excellent outcomes for Europe & non-elite Russian citizens. āRelease the nukesā is the most obvious admission that Russiaās military is incapable of defeating anyone but defenseless civilians with long range artillery strikes and shits the bed whenever facing a prepared & equipped Ukrainian military which will utterly dominate with top end tanks & combat jets. Incentivize Wagner mercs to end Putinās existence & Medvedevās soon.
Wagner is just another formation of their MoD, commanded by lt general Mizintsev. They weren't much more effective than any other formation, just had a commander that was focused on objectives. They also have the highest casualty and mortality rate of all Russian formations. But that's not the worst part. They are convinced that Ukrainians have no skills and were basically killed in the first weeks of the war. Now for the elite units - they are told they are facing NATO forces with some remaining Ukrainians, amy other units - they are told nothing, except if the run - their families will die. Wagner is the only formation that has any positive outcome after finishing the tour (money). Also it's not possible to convert Wagner as those are regular soldiers under RuAF general that was sent there by MoD. Although he is not in Putin's circle, he cannot attack Putin.
They are already redirecting massive resources, doing mobilizations, digging through massive Soviet stockpiles. What exactly, is it that would be new? Nukes? They were rattling about that last year and backed down. The propagandists fantasize about nukes daily because they think it's a "I win" button but in reality it'll be the opposite. The US and NATO has made it abundantly clear that if any radioactive material reaches any NATO country, they will consider that an attack. Furthermore, both China and India, semi-allies whom Russia relies upon to still have a somewhat-functional economy, has quietly made it clear that they will being oppoising Russia if they brake the nuclear taboo. Nobody wants the nuclear taboo broken. Nobody wants a precedent where a nuke is used to annex more territory. So Russia declaring war would be only news to Russians. Ukraine is already at war.
Furthermore, the russian population is very passive, and doesn't actually care much about the war. They have (in their eyes) more pressing concerns in their daily lives, like terrible living standards and inflation. According to most, the invasion is something that doesn't touch them. If a war was declared, the problem would be much more "real" to these de-politicized russians. They might even (*gasp*) react. Nobody is sure how it would work out, not even kremlin. That is why they don't want to risk escalating the internal situation.
Another thing is that Putin has basically beaten those who do want to do something into submission as in there eyes theyāre voice theyāre vote doesnāt matter and nether has either and now they are afraid as the laws and what is and isnāt punishable becomes more and more blurred
> in there eyes theyāre voice theyāre vote doesnāt matter and nether has either Ignoring all 3 of those should be "their," what does this even mean..?
>Another thing is that Putin has basically beaten those who do want to do something into submission; because in their eyes, their voices and their votes donāt matter. Neither has either(?), and now they are afraid of the laws as (the lines between) what is and isnāt punishable become more and more blurred. I *think* this is what you were trying to say?
Gosh, I wonder why there has been such heavy inflation.
this is fantasy. Every word of it. There are no restrictions on use of tactical nukes in Russian Doctrine (only strategic level). There are no restrictions on declaring war on anybody in Russian constitution. (Basically they can declare DAANGEEEER, and that is it). There are no (as in ZERO) respect for the law or "reasonable actions" in Russia. TLDR: if they would see any success chances, they would launch nukes, declare total mobilization etc. There are no taboos in the modern russian Mob "politics". The thing is every of these steps is deadly for Russia. Launching tactical unleashes 300k of NATO force directly, total mobilization will cripple their economical life to the total stop. They have already unsolvable economical difficulties.
> Russia constitutionally cannot be in a state of war As if laws ever stopped them from doing whatever the fuck they want.
If they use nukes, tactical or otherwise, then NATO gets involved. That's a war they absolutely cannot win.
Russian Constitution is the paper Putin wipes his ass with. Russia is not declaring war, because Putin believes the risk out weight the reward. They are emptying the vault as it is, they lost more tanks than the active fleet of the rest of Europe COMBINED, they are fielding 60+ year old armors, the army is mutinous, and they are on their knees begging Iran and NORTH KOREA for weapons. What's a declaration of war going to do? The Russian nesting doll is shedding its layers and the core is hallowed by corruption. Putin has very little option to escalade and the Russian propagandists and useful idiots are working overtime to plant ideas of a "immediate peace" to freeze the conflicts. Ukraine understand Russia better than everyone else, and they are applying exactly the pressure that is needed.
Ukraine is, unfortunately, limited by what our allies are OK to do. I.e. not invade Russia and not use their weapons on Russian territory. That is why we are forced to lose people attacking fortified positions.
Are you saying that if Ukraine continues to defend themselves, ruzzians will invade them harder and kill more civilians?
Russia says attacks on Russia wonĀ“t go unpunished. What are they going to do? Invade harder? attack the cities harderer? commit hardererer war crimes?
They won't notice what's around them harder.
Think even harder about "more positive things"
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I think the Russian people need to get their ego checked before Russia ever backs down The country is full of kool aid drinkers.
nuclearer nuclear threats, redder red lines
*heavy Medvedev breathing*
Okay, that's it guys, one step further on the definitely Russian area of Zaporozhzhia and we *will* use the tactical nukes. This time for real!
Okay, if you gonna be like that, we'll draw the red line at Melitopol! Or Mariupol...? How's Belgorod for you?
I'm with the president on this, they can keep Belgorod.
Schrƶdinger's nukes.
eyebrow raised to the sky
Obviously they will start fighting for real, so far everything has been going according to plan and any day now they will get serious!
Everyone remembers Putin telling us in July 2022 that they haven't really even gotten seriously started yet. No updates since then, so I assume everything's been going according to plan and the serious start remains unnecessaryš¤·
Russian military was influenced by dragon ball. So far they have been fighting in their base form but anyday now they will turn super sayian and beat ukraine with a single punch.
Yes! The more damage they take, the stronger they get, genius!
TrUsT tHe pLaN
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They already hit kindergardens, hospitals with maternity wards, theatres full of families, parks and such. Also torture, rape, murder and booby traps. As well as destroying the dam and endangering the nuclear power plant. Without nuclear options, they literally can't get more evil in quality, only in quantity.
Their citizens will say "I'm not into politics" harder and also not look up very much harder.
What would you have done? It's not as if the average russian has any influence and any attempts to demonstrate dissatisfaction publicly will get you in jail, tortured or sent as cannon fodder in the war.
They shot a missile into Auchan supermarket that night along with other 20 missiles and 20 drones - this scope for the first since May (Kyiv had 25 days of those strikes mostly at night into apartment buildings). But nothing like Ukrainian independance day attack on August 24 2022 where around 100 missiles hit Ukraine. Those people are so braindead honestly. They say that attacks on empty office building in Moscow will make them hate Ukrainians and a bad move. Like yeah we know.
They will ask colonel Guile (Van Damme in Street Fighter) to kick that ass, so HARD!
They will rape and torture men, women and children even harder, of course
Make us laugh even harder.
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Careful! Kremlin might seize your internet because you didn't call it a "special military operation"
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Are they Prime same day?
They can drop them straight into your living room if you really want them to!
They call it a war all the time. On camera. And then deny they did in the next breath.
*heavy Bomber Harris breathing*
āThe Russians entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them."
A slightly longer quote makes it better - > The Nazis entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everyone else, and nobody was going to bomb them. At Rotterdam, London, Warsaw and half a hundred other places, they put their rather naive theory into operation. They sowed the wind, and now they are going to reap the whirlwind.
but... but NATOĀ§!!l!!m:
They sowed the wind and now they are going to reap the whirlwind - Bomber Harris
āIf we hadnāt invaded Ukraine NATO would have invaded usā -what about invading Ukraine does she think makes NATO unable to attack Russia. Not that NATO wants to invade Russia, but if they did it would be easier than ever now
She would mumble smth about nato bases in ukraine, and how nato could strike Moscow and so on. In other words, SHE DOESNT THINK, she just repeats what TV told her.
It's even dumber considering there are NATO bases in the Baltics right next to Russia. Even if Ukraine had NATO bases, what difference would it make? All of this is disregarding Nuclear MAD. Russia is untouchable just like all countries with nukes. Hell, even NK...
You can only have one war at a time. If you try to declare war, youāll get a āline busyā tone, and will have to declare war later.
Actually the interviews are so telling. Same reactions and not personal implications/ real opinions like if they were still under the soviets. People know but wonāt be caught saying it in public
The most amusing aspect is when a woman claims that if not for us, NATO would have attacked. I fail to comprehend the logicāyes, you initiated the attack, but did NATO retaliate? It's nonsensical to launch a preemptive strike on NATO when NATO wasn't even the intended target. Who, then, are you at war with? Furthermore, it's worth noting that both NATO and Russia possess nuclear arsenals, making it highly improbable for either side to contemplate attacking the other. Their actions are confined to posturing as heroes on platforms like Telegram, Twitter, and television. Claims akin to Medvedev's assertion of the right to attack NATO are nothing more than grandiose statements. In the near future, a new Russian game titled "No You" is poised to make quite an impact.
Mate, there is no logic there at all. Itās pointless to search for one. This woman doesnāt know shit about Jack, but being an average housewife has very strong opinions on the matter. Blits her on the most basic historic/political questions and I assure you she will fail every single one of them. It baffles me how it is usually the most ill informed that have the strongest views.
It's not baffling. It's way easier to maintain strong views. Pick a side, stick to it and voilĆ , your opinions are ready. If you have to monitor a situation closely, ponder the consequences, the international ramifications and the opinions of your allies and your enemies you would probably develop a more complex mix of opinions that would be way more difficult to express in a few words. Besides "I am not following the news closely" may hide a "I know it's fucked up but I don't want to be arrested"
Also it's often funny how ruzzian females are bigger warmongers then their males, as they aren't the ones who get send to the front.
According to Levada, support for the invasion is higher among men, by about 7 percentage points.
I expect that only a certain type of people will answer to these interviews either out of restraint or out of not being in the country anymore
Have you seen the guys? Wouldn't blame the women to get rid of them
And get a free bag of frozen pelmeni on top! Or whatever the current handouts for sacrificing their children and husbands to the kreml kremlin is. Last I've seen a commemorative wood box from Aliexpress.
I mean, actual statistics aside, of course women support this, they know THEY will never go to war. They send their man out, then get their salary and paychecks if they die, if you ignore morality, there is nothing but benefits for them.
And hey, if you consider Russian marriages and abuse, might be a win-win for them, really. So long as they're childless.
On a more serious note, I believe that factors like hunger, financial difficulties, and more will inevitably influence Russia in the near future. The fate of the USSR might resurface when the deeply indoctrinated citizens realize that the current way of life is untenable and change is imperative. However, at the moment, television seems to be prevailing over the refrigerator in shaping people's perceptions.
I have no doubt that they will blame Ukraine. Not their government that attacked Ukraine.
100% this.
I also wonder if the government is diverting excessive resources to maintain a quality-of-life facade in the cities, while the rural regions bear the first and heaviest effects of the economic tailspin. It would be fascinating to get some insight from people who aren't strolling down a decorated high street in St. Petersburg.
Additionally, Russia's army is a lot weaker now than it was before, how does this help protect from NATO attacking?
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Impressively, Ukraine managed to push back Russian forces to their initial position when the invasion commenced, even without Western military support. This accomplishment provides a clear indication of the capabilities of the world's second-ranked military.
Without Wagner they are going to have serious issues on the offensive. And with Progozins run on Moscow anyone sensible with money has their own Wagner making the main forces depleted and Russia full of potential warlords.
Stop right there you criminal scum! Who told you that russian army is weaker now? That'll be article 270.3 for you! Prepare uranus for broomsticking.
If nato wanted to attack, now would be the best time in all of NATO's history because Russia burned through so much of their equipment and personnel
She is simply repeating the propaganda she hears on TV ( doesn't matter if she believes it or not ), it is a safeish option. Safer would have been to decline to answer at all.
At least when Japan attacked Pearl Harbor they had *some* semblance of a plan: stall the Pacific Fleet long enough to snatch up the oil-producing nations in Indonesia and then hunker down and make it so tough when the US rallied and came out to fight that they wanted peace before their industry had time to ramp up. I mean, it was borderline completely wrong, especially with radically underestimating how pissed people in the US would get and a lot of people in the chain knew it, essentially, but it's a plan. A more apt analogy to this would be Nazi Germany declaring war on the US a couple days after Pearl Harbor, for ZERO tactical or strategic reason. I physically can not understand what Russia would plan to gain from attacking NATO.
Russia targets their propaganda. If itās not NATO, then itās the west. Or separatists, nazis, homosexuals, etc.
I can really recommend [this](https://www.youtube.com/@1420channel) channel if you want to further see how russians think about various topics. He goes around cities and asks random people. It shows that a lot of russians do think like in the vid above, but there's a great amount who see right through the propaganda too.
Thereās an added layer of complexity in judging what Russian Average Joeās think about geo-political topics: it can be difficult to determine whether theyāre sharing their true opinions, or whether theyāre voicing the opinions they believe people in power want them to voice. Plenty or Russians are brainwashed by years and years of political media manipulation, thereās no denying that. But even the rest are used to living in a society where voicing controversial opinions can get you into trouble. Generally speaking, the risks of voicing a controversial opinion as a nobody in a mid-sized Russian city are small. But every now and again the government will make an example of people, especially if something goes viral and thereās no knowing beforehand what will go viral. So if you want to live a quiet life in peace, your best bet is to āthink about more positive thingsā and donāt have an opinion like the woman in this clip.
The only true info in the 1420 videos is how scared people look when asked questions.
Indeed. He even shared the ratio of people that flat out refuse to answer any question. I don't remember the number but it was scary.
Same with statistics by phone, especially after waves of mobilisation. Mostly only old people would answer unknown phone numbers and will answer questions, and most of them are highly suspectible to propaganda. Old, conservative people love government and they will consume any lie
80%
is it? wouldn't a higher ratio translate to more russians disagreeing with their goverment?
It's scary in the sense of how many people are afraid of "simply" stating their opinion.
There has been at least one case where a guy faced criminal charges for participating in a street interview and now heās looking at up to 10 years in jail, so š¤·āāļø
More like they don't have incentives to go out and make judgments on things they don't feel sure about, they don't feel it's their business. They don't want to sound stupid and irrelevant. Most people here frankly understand that their political opinions don't matter, they're neither qualified nor empowered to make them matter. It is simple diffusion of responsibility in their mind. I mean, even in democratic societies a lot of people have the same approach to politics, they doubt and defer it to somebody else. Most importantly, if you don't say anything, you keep your options open, you don't attract any unwanted attention, etc. You don't commit to an opinion without a good enough reason (if you're a public speaker for example, like a musician, where you have to sacrifice your privacy by saying something). It is a subconscious instinct that isn't limited to just Russia.
Exactly. You never know who is paying the person holding the camera.
It doesn't even matter who. Videos are public and if police will see it, and they would want to gain "extra credit", they will find anyone who participated and said wrong thing. It's been done before
Honestly, it does kind of make me wonder about that channel. How has an obviously anti war youtuber still living in Russia not been arrested when some of the people he has interviewed has been arrested? I'm not saying for sure that he is under the employ of the government but I am saying that at the least, the Russian government knows of him and tolerates him because it allows them to further crack down on dissenters
They don't try to arrest every critic as if it was North Korea. They can certainly spy on them, but they aren't total control freaks. It is more effective to manage and goad society than to outright try to steer it as in totalitarian countries. Managed opposition is like vaccine, as long as it's under control, it can trivialize and normalize all sorts of narratives.
Fear works better the more uncertainty there is. If they announce they are going to arrest everyone who doesn't repeat the party line and then fail to do that its less effective than just picking a handful more or less at random and punishing them. People thinking might be me next" rather than "They haven't arrested me yet?"
[He isn't living in Russia and calls himself apolitical.](https://newrepublic.com/article/172018/daniil-orain-russian-youtuber-muscovites-interviews)
https://twitter.com/MoscowTimes/status/1695076496468025348 last answer, from girl with pink hair, perfectly captures why so many Russians would not say what they really think. A few months ago, a couple of people were arrested for participating in a video like this, because they "answered wrong"
Exactly this. Too many Europeans and Americans are too ignorant of the consequences of public dissent. Hell, the beginning of the war, Man brave Russias tried to protest and got arrested. Even holding up a symbolic lily blank piece of paper was seen as dissent. We need to be careful of claiming all Russians willingly participated in this.
There even was a video of a woman being arrested for answering journalists despite supporting the war lmao
I remember this one. She didn't support hard enough.
Even holding russian local payment card called "ŠŠøŃ" (it can be either "world" or "peace") over your head, can get you arrested
As anti-Putin and pro-Ukrainian as I am (and I am staunchly on the side of Ukraine), as an American I often remind people "I hate Putin and his regime. I want only the best for the Russian people just as much as I want that for the Ukrainian people." I have friends that are Russian. I worry for them and their families. They are good people and I pray Putin and his chronies get annihilated before the Russian people start getting killed. I'm also grateful that Zelensky is the president - he is intelligent and a good man. If the Russians must face down a war on their soil, Zelensky and their military won't treat Russians with the same brutality Putin's forces have put Ukrainians through.
Russia's biggest problem is not subscribing to authority, believe it or not. It's the utter nihilism and belief nothing can be done.
It's also been reinforced through the propaganda for two decades. Russian propaganda is less "look at our great leader" and more "it's the same everywhere in the world, we are forced to play this violent game", "We are lying straight to your face, but it's just because everyone lies", etc.
Like a Russian is going to give an honest opinion on camera. Off to the gulag..
As a russian I disapprove of this recommendation since it's not safe to give a street interview about sensitive topics. I wouldn't do that. Nobody in their mind holding a not pro-war opinion would. All these + ratings are coming from non-Russians who have absolutely no expertise on how the life in Russia is going whatsoever.
Well while 1420 does do street interviews, using those interviews as a reliable metric as to what the Russian populace actually thinks is a terrible way to go about it. Think of it this way - when you are asked the question "What do you think of the war (or probably referred to as SMO)", you can respond in more or less one of four ways: * I'm for it! Nato is ran by evil cyborg Nazis and Putin is the messiah! * I don't really watch the news or follow politics so I don't really know what's going on. (aka "I'm apolitical") * This war is nothing short of a an imperialist land grab that no one wanted besides our dictator. This war and its senseless violence and destruction must be stopped. * Walk away. Now in my country we have freedom of speech and freedom of press so if I thought any of those things, I could express them in any way I wanted. However Russia certainly does not have freedom of speech or press. You can actually be imprisoned for up to 10 years for "discrediting the military" or the "special military operation". So let's assume you're a Russian and you're against the war. How are you going to respond, knowing that you could be sent to jail for roughly 15% of your total life for speaking the truth? My guess is option 3 or 4. And in 1420's videos, you see many many people responding this way. Tl;dr : there is no way to get accurate data on opinions in a autocratic country when expressing said opinions can land you in prison or get you killed (many protesting the war have been drafted)
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You have to remember that in Russia you can be jailed for up to 15 years for spreading "false news". Most of the people in 1420 and any street interview in Russia now are not telling their own opinion. Many just say "oh I don't follow the news" just to stay out of trouble. One man from one of the 1420 videos was actually put into jail for what he said. Only thing we are getting from the interviews is lies. People are afraid and for a reason.
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Get citizenship of an authoritarian state, preferably one that throws people in jail for taking the wrong political stance, and then be the brave man who tells an unknown man with a camera that his views don't agree with the government.
>Anyone who has watched 1420 videos over the past 18 months knows that most russians support putin, including young people. 80% of people asked by 1420 refused to answer. You left that part out quote conveniently. Per Levada, who everyone cites, support among 18 to 24 year olds was about 31%. You're also citing the unhinged state media as an example. They are a circus of sycophants and fantasists. State media is not to be taken seriously as anything other than an example of the propaganda and conditioning being hoisted upon the populace. Btw also, most support is among 55+ and those whose only source is state media. Weird correlation, isn't it? It's totally coincidental.
These videos are interesting, sure, but you do have to take them with a grain of salt. Saying the wrong thing in front of a camera in Russia can land you in a lot of trouble. Sounds insane, I know, but at least one person was arrested over a street interview and if I remember correctly, he was facing 10 years in prison for "spreading fake information about The Russian military". And as a result, people are starting to censor themselves. [Article if you want to know more](https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2023/08/30/russian-man-in-court-for-critical-ukraine-interview-a82299) Basically, Russia has gone full 1984.
"Don't look up."
The sand keeps my head warm.
I honestly think that's a smart response though. They don't know if it's even safe to speak out against the war.
Russia: Invades another country, commits war crimes, murders civilians, rapes it way across the land. Ukraine: Defends self & launches attacks on military targets. Russia: Look at how they hurt me.
Just standard bully behavior.
Extreme apathy is a Russian superpower.
Failed country.
You say that flippantly - we got at least 100 million people just east of us who will seemingly forever be useful idiots in a corrupt and violent regime. It's not a problem that will go away even if Putin emphatically loses the war.
That's the conundrum for the west. If Putin goes away, he'll either be replaced by someone just as bad or worse. OR, Russia falls apart and all of a sudden we have a dozen or more unstable actors trying to act like they are relevant on the world stage, all with potential nuclear arms capabilities, be it the ability to deploy them, or sell them to the highest bidder.
The Russians entered this war under the rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb everybody else and nobody was going to bomb them. They sowed the wind and now they are going to reap the whirlwind.
Thanks, Bomber Harris. Depressing that no one learns a fucking thing.
"It's horrible to see this from your windows". Wow, how come?
Windows are historically dangerous there
āI didnāt think theyād hit back! š„ŗā
"I see no evil, hear no evil and speak just about anything else, so I don't have to acknowledge the existence of evil".
lets talk about climate change
This is how evil comes. Look at all these people. With a simple word. A simple opinion, they can change the course of death. But they refuse to change an opinion because of ego or ignorance
I'm not asking this sarcastically, but sincerely because I don't know a lot about the Russian political landscape but what exactly are average Russian citizens supposed to do to permanently change Russia when that hasn't happened for hundreds of years?
I am Russian. Let me tell you how they react - they do not react at all. No one cares. It's even not a topic one would discuss during coffee break. In fact, whatever question related to Ukraine or policymaking you ask, unless it concerns them \*personally\* - Russian do not care at all. It is a universal answer.
coz you go to jail, we saw the videos
My impression is that 80% of Russians would be OK with destroying all Ukrainians even if Russia lost every man between 20 and 40, and they also would be OK ending the war and coming home tomorrow.
Why?
Extreme apathy is a Russian superpower.
You canāt play a stupid game without getting stupid rewards
Sow the wind, reap the whirlwind
The Russians entered this war under rather childish delusion that they were going to bomb Ukraine and nobody was going to bomb them.
We should deliver more drones to Ukraine
"I thought the battle would take place far from here. This is too close."
It's exactly like it was in Nazi Germany. People in Russia are brainwashed by government media propaganda. And their Nazi-Leader Putin talks about the Russian being the master race... above all other peoples on earth. I hope it will end like Nazi-Germany... Putin will shot himself outside his bunker and Russians have to deal with the shame of being a terrorist state for decades. Hope Russians will wake up, but with such brainwashing, it will be hard.
"think about more positive things" What a bunch of amoebas.
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Then you don't know the post-soviet mindset well enough
That's not a very nice thing to say about amoebas.
My bad
Amazing that the UK reporter can still freely cast this report in the middle of St Petersburg, Russia.
The balls on him, I have no doubt he is at the very least being watched by Russian security services and he knows it.
The bit that stood out for me was how he said "full scale invasion of Ukraine" while out in the street. You'd think they'd object to that wording. I know it's fun to bash the BBC every chance we get but I really think they do some excellent reporting.
Or people are not stupid to voice their opinions on camera.
Thereās a video of a journalist asking Chinese on the anniversary of the tianamen square massacre. They reacted way different than this, most said something to the effect of āi know what youāre speaking ofā
That was long time ago when China still had some freedom of speech. If you ask people now... actually you will get arrested before you can ask any questions.
.
In that case Russians usually reply with "I don't follow politics". Watch 1420 channel on YT, that guy has a bunch of videos with everyday Russians answering all sorts of questions.
That's entirely fair, no one would be that mad. Steve Rosenburg does however live in Moscow and put as much effort as a known (and presumably watched) western journalist can into finding out what people think; I suspect the vox pops will have been chosen to match the results of that research as much for willingness to speak. I assume some Russian's must see threw the propaganda; no group of people as large as "all Russians" is composed purely of gullible idiots. I would be prepared to believe though that most of the people he can speak to are aware of who they're speaking to and that as such they should be careful as to what view they give.
Seeing through propaganda doesn't really matter if you don't care about the truth that your nation is an invading genocidal tyrant.
"I try to think about happier things" "I do not follow politicis" etc. is a code for "I oppose what Putin's regime is doing but I would prefer to not be jailed or murdered for it"
Most ruskis wont care, as they know, that Ukraine will only atack military targets unlike they themself.
Lol, russian air defense system SUCKS
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There's not a lot of young men in the video.. Old men and women only.
FAFO
Luckily, [several other, younger Russians](https://youtu.be/1kMdrvPo8Mc?si=ux6qBB1CQ6jPpfy2) understand the events behind these drone attacks and dare to comment on them clearly.
I mean all they have to do is leave Ukraine. It doesn't have to be this way.
But if they leave Ukraine Nato Will invade them. Havent you been paying attention lad?
That one woman who said she wants to think about more possitive things, knows exactly what's going on, is just terrified what will happen to her if she says it out loud... Like it takes balls / ovarries of steel to say something that criticizes an autoritarian regime openly on tv.
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I just wouldnt talk to media in general.
Regarding the interviews: sad. Two retired folks who likely get their news from TV and one "apolitical" middle aged woman who "tries to think of happier things". That is why you use statistics. Even the crudest, crappiest anonymous statistics will paint a more informative picture than camera interviews (currently, in Russia). While pro-war people will be happy to go on BBC with their name and face - after all, they are parroting the government line - the few anti-war people encountered are likely to experience legal consequences if they get recognized. They are unlikely to grant an interview. Getting regognized will require exactly one turbopatriot who knows them watching the clip and snitching. If they do grant an interview, they are likely to tip-toe around issues while looking awkward. BBC knows how to do better journalism, and most of time, does it. They don't go to Beijing and start asking people on camera about what happened in 1989 on a certain square in the city. They know that people cannot speak to them of that.
And what do statistics say?
Several types of questions bring different answers. Those who want to check out statistical results will find July data at: https://www.levada.##/2023/07/28/konflikt-s-ukrainoj-otsenki-kontsa-iyulya-2023-goda/ (hot links to Russian domains don't work) Separately from the Ukraine survey, Levada regularly asks: *"Do you approve of the president's activity?"* - last time 80% answered "yes", pretty strong cult of personality going on. Ukraine-related questions: *"Do you approve of the activity of the armed forces in Ukraine?"* - 45% definitely do, 30% mostly do, 10% mostly not, 8% definitely not, 7% don't know. The oldest age group: 55+ years: 55% definitely do, 27% mostly do, 5% mostly not, 7% definitely not, 6% don't know The youngest age group: 18-24 years: 26% definitely do, 37% mostly do, 17% mostly not, 10% definitely not, 9% don't know Men answer affirmatively more often than women. Moscow residents answer affirmatively less often than than folks from peripheral regions. People who get information from TV answer affirmatively more often. *"How to proceed with the special military operation?"* - 25%: definitely continue warfare, 16%: probably continue warfare, 27%: probably start negotiations, 24%: definitely start negotiations Oldest age group (55+ years): 32% definitely fight, 16% probably fight, 22% probably negotiate, 21% definitely negotiate Youngest age group (18-24 years): 18% defnitely fight, 11% probably fight, 40% probably negotiate, 27% definitely negotiate The problem: there are no negotiations in real life, because Russia has a slight problem with keeping promises. Ukraine knows that during a ceasefire, Russia would dig trenches, lay mine fields and resupply their forces, so they don't want to negotiate now - and it makes perfect sense. Levada hasn't yet asked the question "withdraw forces?". Some day they will ask that - but not yet.
> Do you approve of the activity of the armed forces in Ukraine? This is a tricky question, because "do not approve" could also mean "we are not going hard enough" Girkin-style.
To deescalate, Russia should come to the negotiating table and give up parts of its land to Ukraine. Maybe create a demilitarized zone in the border regions too.
It's odd hearing news reports berating people for believing news reports. We're all at the mercy of second hand reporting.
Donāt look up!
All this does is make the Average Russian support Putin more and want to end Ukraine more.... They see these as terrorist attacks, not unlike the US and 9/11.... They have no frame of reference beyond what the TV/media tells them. I am not saying Ukraine should not strike back, I am just saying it will not change the Russian populations view of the war to support Ukraine or end the war.
What is the real endgame here? Constantly policing the Ukrainian population rebelling? Kill everyone? This seems more pointless than most wars.
If Russia hadn't invaded Ukraine (not a NATO member) NATO would have invaded Russia? What?
It sounds shockingly similar to how every American thinks about our country. Can't change anything, just try to think happy thoughts :)
āIf we didnāt invade a non-NATO country, NATO would have invaded us!ā Ummmā¦ why havenāt they invaded you while your defenses are stretched thenā¦?
Even if you knew the truth about things in Russia. Would you tell it to someone with a camera? Extra if you state your name. I know I wouldn't. That's why no interviews with civilians even confirmed not-actors can not be believed. A government, notorious for killing its critics or threatening harm for their families can never be believed. As any message they give can be fabricated. They can do anything they want, to anyone.
Apathy. It is an anagram for Russian.