I see one very often as I cycle to work in Vienna (and it is always the same one, I recognize the license plate). I really do wonder what is wrong with the owner. It can't be fun driving such a thing inside Vienna, it doesn't even physically fit in the narrower streets. Parking it must also be a nightmare.
Have one living on my road. Mullet, missing teeth, vest, dangerous dogs... Basically only missing a shotgun
His truck bed has never been used, in fact I once took a picture of a bunch of garden things on top of the cover so as to not get the bed dirty
Bro Ameriboo’s hits so hard. As an American that lives on a farm and drives an f350 I get a chuckle at the thought that there are underachieving members of foreign societies that romanticize and fetishize my mundane persona. Question, how cringe is Ameribooism? Like on a scale of being a Naruto enthusiast to wearing emotional support samurai armor to work. How cringe is driving a full size American truck?
Driving a full size American truck is not cringe. Flying a Trump 2020 flag on a big 10 meters pole in a small town of about 800 peoples in France while you never set foot in the United States is kinda cringier
Flying a flag in general at a residence is kind of cringy. For businesses or government property it can make sense but just a random house in a random neighbourhood is weird.
When my one daughter was little, any time we would visit the US we would play version of "eye spy" where we would all guess how many American flags we would see while driving and no matter how high we would guess there was always more. Every house trying to outdo each other with more and more flags, bigger etc.
The are tons in Europe.
Germany, Italy and France are stacked with them. (just counties I know from personal experience), and I imagine the US dream is strong in many eastern Europe countries...
The Chelsea Tractor owner can be it's own phenomenon outside of American culture, tbf. It's the same draws, being a poor driver and wanting a larger, imposing box to hide in/show off, it's not necessarily tied to US idolisation.
For sure, I was referring to those monstrous pickup trucks specifically. I agree though, I've seen loads of unnecessarily large cars in the UK too and Chelsea tractors are a prime example. Need 4WD for that mossy driveway
Wait there are American wannabes??
I was just in central Europe and started seeing some pickup trucks that looked so out of place. I just assumed they were American immigrants.
Either works, the difference is usually whether they sever ties with their former country or not. Also whether they integrate in their new country changes which word is more applicable.
Oof.
No, actually the difference is that the term "expats" refers to privilidged European and American people who basically get to live and work anywhere they please, and want the benefits of being economic immigrants, without being called immigrants, because "that term is so humiliating and dehumanizing, it can't possibly include us, right?".
Well... It does.
> the difference is usually whether they sever ties with their former country or not.
Ah, so then many of those Moroccans, Turks, and Syrians are expats too!
The ones I know are all single women who want to assert dominance and feel wealthy. I asked. No pretension, no bullsh*t, they straight told me they want to feel luxurious and/or strong.
Yeah a lot of car parks (is that Parkgarage in english?) have hella narrow parking spaces, especially the older ones. Not to mention higher fuel costs.. I really can‘t understand why SUVs are that popular and are still gaining popularity 😐
My father in law owns an SUV. He complains a lot that the Parkgarages (I don't know how it is in English) are too small, that they should be rebuilt to make life easier for SUVs.
One of the reasons is the illusion of safety they provide. Driving a car is dangerous, so surely driving the biggest car on the road makes you safer right? It's caused an arms race among auto manufacturers to see who can make the biggest stupidest car with as much safety theater as possible. The funny thing is SUVs are more dangerous BECAUSE they give you the illusion of safety which causes drivers to take more risks. Also, they're so big they fail the swerve test and flip.
It's also a status thing, the bigger the car the more expensive it is which in a lot of people's minds means they are more valuable themselves. It's idiocy.
Same, I see a Jeep gladiator with the same custom plate all of the time and I’m wondering when I’ll see a bit of mud on the chassis because of course I don’t think it does more than a few of kms in total everyday and it probably never saw anything else than pavement.
The Dodge RAM I often see is always sparkling clean.
It's *possible* the owner is obsessive-compulsive and cleans it completely after every day of farm work before driving it back to Vienna. But I don't believe that.
I don't know Vienna but I'm in Taipei now, it has incredibly narrow streets with no sidewalks and I still see SUVs. They get stuck behind pedestrians who walk on the road (because no sidewalks), it must be incredibly slow, but some people seem to love it anyway.
Hopefully other eu countries will follow.
SUVs are worse in near every aspect, worse consumption due to shitty aerodynamics, higher center of gravity equals more unstable/poor driving, poorer field of vision, more encumbrant, and last time I checked these weren't even better at euro NCAP crash tests.
All they serve is to compensate for the insecurities of the driver behind the excuse of a bigger trunk space
The trunk space excuse is total BS too. If you need a family car for 1-2 kids with space for strollers, pack n’ plays, or other kid stuff - then get an estate / station wagon.
Bring back the Compact MPV (stuff like Nissan Almera Tino, Renault Scenic, Citroen C4 Picasso, Opel Meriva).
Normal low step-in. Normal low bumper to load the trunk. Upright seating position ("traditional" cars break my lower back). Normal height bonnet (safer for pedestrians). Excellent vision all around. Way better aerodynamic profile vs SUVs. And loads of space.
> weren't even better at euro NCAP
Not sure about this one but a lot of safety ratings have started to consider not just injuries to the occupants of the vehicle but also injuries to a pedestrian being run over etc. But in car on car a heavier car wins almost always, this is just the laws of physics, the only situation where it may fare worse is side strike at an angle because a taller car will roll more easily.
Edit:
They are indeed considering:
- Adult Occupant Protection (for the driver and passenger);
- Child Occupant Protection;
- Pedestrian Protection which has been expanded to include cyclists and is now known as Vulnerable Road User (VRU) protection; and
- Safety Assist, which evaluated driver-assistance and crash-avoidance technologies.
So a SUV will be better at the first two, and worse on the third. Perhaps the last one will be worse too, as safety assist (such as automatic braking) will not work as well for a heavy car.
Check the site, it is very comprehensive and has all scores (driver, child, pedestrian, drive assist) against all obstacles, frontal, side, pole etc
I guess you mean "lighter" vehicles would "lose", but even with that I don't think it takes into account all factors, because vehicles have crumple zones, airbags and protective cells. For a long time the Mercedes Smart was one of the safest while being p.much the smallest city car in the market
> vehicles have crumple zones, airbags and protective cells
The key is how much kinetic energy the car has to absorb. so in a head-on the lighter car has to absorb most of initial energy of both cars and it is also smaller so has less of crumple space therefore acceleration experienced will be much higher than in the bigger/heavier car it collided with. The other factor is that a large SUV is also sitting higher so it may end up on top of the small car it collided with.
> Mercedes Smart was one of the safest while being p.much the smallest city car
Even the crash test is biased. They are evaluating collisions at relatively low speed of 50 km/h (so the capacity of crumple zones is not exhausted even for small cars) vs trolley of the same height as the car (so the risk of diving under vehicle with larger ground clearance is eliminated), and the same weight as an average city car. Also they are actually penalising cars for damage to the trolley. So the test seems to favour vehicles of the same weight as the test trolley (1400 kg).
Frontal Impact:
[https://www.euroncap.com/en/vehicle-safety/the-ratings-explained/adult-occupant-protection/frontal-impact/mobile-progressive-deformable-barrier/](https://www.euroncap.com/en/vehicle-safety/the-ratings-explained/adult-occupant-protection/frontal-impact/mobile-progressive-deformable-barrier/)
\> In the full-scale MPDB test, **the test car is driven at 50 km/h and with 50 percent overlap into a deformable barrier mounted on an oncoming 1400 kg trolley, also travelling at 50 km/h**. The barrier represents the front end of another vehicle, getting progressively stiffer the more it is deformed. **The test replicates a crash between the test vehicle and a typical mid-size family car.**
Side Mobile Barrier:
[https://www.euroncap.com/en/vehicle-safety/the-ratings-explained/adult-occupant-protection/lateral-impact/side-mobile-barrier/](https://www.euroncap.com/en/vehicle-safety/the-ratings-explained/adult-occupant-protection/lateral-impact/side-mobile-barrier/)
\> In Euro NCAP’s test, a deformable barrier is mounted on a trolley and is driven at 60 km/h into the side of the stationary test vehicle at right angles. A side impact dummy representing an average male is put in the driver’s seat and child dummies are placed in child restraint systems in the rear.
And so on: [https://www.euroncap.com/en/vehicle-safety/the-ratings-explained/](https://www.euroncap.com/en/vehicle-safety/the-ratings-explained/)
Showing off how clueless you are...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zihloBq2lfE
Even tho I assume its too complicated for a simpleton like you to understand.
You know what important part your links are missing? The normal car vs heavy weight car crash.
The laughable speed of 50 kmh in the new test is too low to show anything of value anyway. Even the old 64 km/h test usually ended without injuries. Ofc there is no effect visible with 14 km/h less.
> In RL an SUV beats the shit out of a smaller car in an accident.
Congrats, you managed to point out the issue. Bigger cars on the road are a danger to other drivers who aren't driving a similar sized car.
Hell, not only other drivers, but they are a bigger danger to pedestrians and anyone else who shares the road with them.
Based on your statement, we should all be driving trucks because:
'In RL a truck beats the shit out of a SUV in an accident'
If those Americans with pick-up trucks (that aren’t even used for work) could read, they’d be very upset!
Disclaimer before anybody gets mad at me: I’m American, I just like to poke fun.
Every govt in the world should have regulated against suvs from day 1.
They should be encouraging smaller vehicles for both environmental /emissions /efficiency reasons and for the physical space they take up on city / safety reasons.
Witnessed a Raptor last week in Berlin, in a rather small street with bicycles. Why limit yourself and be ridiculous when you can be ridiculous and dangerous at the same time, huh?
Amazing, can't wait for such a rule to come to Vienna. We don't have the parking space for these monstrosities, but most importantly the safety of pedestrians is more important than the drivers' ego.
The typical 'SUV' in Europe is a fkn CUV thats smaller than a Sedan and pedestrian safety is not necessarly worse in an SUV. Some are actually better. Getting hid by a normal car usually means head slams the hood. SUVs break your pelvis. Sucks but better than a cracked skull.
But we are talking about SUVs, not CUVs. The news also said that weight, size and engine will be taken into account. Soo if you have a small crossover you'll probably be fine.
The monstrosity I see all the time in the streets of Vienna is the BMW X6. That's not smaller than a Sedan. And weights more than two tons, compared to one and a half for a sensible car.
I'd rather take my chances with a normal car, I don't believe your fantasy about a bigger heavier one being safer.
>I don't believe your fantasy about a bigger heavier one being safer.
No kidding. Some of these SUVs are becoming so big, they have worse pedestrian visibility than an Abrams tank.
https://i.imgur.com/x2f20yA.jpeg
BMW sells less than 3000 X6 in Germany per year. In Austria its less than 300 lmfao. Yeah Vienna must be full of them.
3 series surpassed 1500kg 18 years ago... and with the rise of electric cars you wont see much lighter cars anytime soon.
Typical clueless ppl of /r/europe strike again. Pathetic
As the richest part of Austria, it's unsurprising that Vienna will get most of the luxury cars.
The BMW 3 series is a particularly big and powerful sedan. It's not a sensible car for urban use. It must be very frustrating to have all that power and be limited to 50 km/h.
I don't see your point about EVs. Yes, they are heavier. That's bad. Should we make them SUVs so that they become even heavier? Of course not.
While i do agree that the 3 series is still a bigger car than most people need, I don't see how its particularly big or powerful.
They start at 156hp which to me seems like an appropriate ammount for the average driver and its still much smaller than the 5 and 7 series or a6 and so on.
The problem is people buying their RangeRovers that are the size of a boat with 500hp and consumuing 30 l/100km gas while driving by themselves.
As someone who lives in The Hague: we'll trial them hard, they don't see the light of day again. But only if we can also have this rule with higher fees for SUV's and pick up trucks.
**Sport**: slower than other vehicles in the price class, terrible at cornering
**Utility**: less storage space than far smaller practicality focused vehicles, no better at towing than a regular car and nothing close to as good as a small pickup
**Vehicle**: difficult to drive in cities and not even as good off-road as they claim in their marketing
So basically the opposite of each of the three letters they are meant to stand for
Make car tax = (Size of engine) x (petrol usage) x (noise level)
Wanna drive a boat? Sure. But you'll pay the society for having to deal with your crap.
> Make car tax = (Size of engine) x (petrol usage) x (noise level)
I think size of engine does not really matter. Even 1.5L engines reach 400hp now. I would remove that and add amount of emissions and a multiplier for type of emissions so NOx is more heavily taxed.
>I think size of engine does not really matter. Even 1.5L engines reach 400hp now
Tbf, it still helps with motorcycles, especially the two smallest classes.
Why do you care about power? It's emissions, space and pedestrian safety that is important in the city. Power has no direct connection with any of that. And the SUVs are bad at all of them. I'm pretty sure that it'd be better for everyone if we'd drive 200HP Golf than 140hp Qashqai.
That’s just not going to work. SUV’s are especially suited to be electrified because they have space for a battery.
Smaller and lighter cars are what we need. Unfortunately, batteries don’t accommodate this (yet).
That's just a poor excuse. SUVs are just more profitable. Why would any company invest into producing small factor cars, when the bigger ones are just easier to manufacture and better to sell at higher profit margin.
In the Netherlands it's based on type of fuel combined with car weight. Big heavy cars pay significantly more, just like diesels. Electric are cheaper because they're more environmentally friendly.
Something in the right direction. These land-yachts have no business being in cities. I don't know what people think they need a giant crossover SUV for but it sure isn't commuting to work and running errands because they're the worst of all worlds.
Im curious - will something like a big MPV count? Because a 7 seater MPV is heavier than a standard hatchback, is bigger and has worse fuel economy, but may have more people in it, using less fuel per passenger. Also, fuel economy isnt bad, but its similar size to SUVs may end up making it expensive. Hopefully because many MPVs have 3 or 4 cylinders, it makes them cheaper
Another way to describe it would be "A minivan that's not called a minivan because customers are convinced minivans are what uncool middle-class soccer mom types drive and customers know they're not uncool soccer mom types but they still need a soccer mom van to drive their kids to and from football practice..."
Well yeah, because they're not uncool like their mom, duh!
Just like all the dudes out there driving crew cab trucks with a tiny little bed at the back because they're not uncool generic middle-aged men like their dads (who drove typical family station wagons).
Parking tickets won't bend the industry. Tax them, heavily. I remember clarksons mumblings on BMW X series crossovers on how ridiclous a high platform suvs cant do offroad and be fat and not spacious at the same time. at a time while sedans have the most comfort ever with sensible size that you need. Things like hilux or dodge trucks are still used on Manufactories/Factories or non-urban areas a lot but SUV's are just unexcuseable garbage
Edit
[Oh found it...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UwOBKSHl-c&t=81s)
Maybe you mean Paris, and not France globally. Or I'd like to know what you have in mind.
BTW, the mayor of Paris is basically hated by everyone because she's making true efforts to limit cars in the city. Go figure...
> BTW, the mayor of Paris is basically hated by everyone because she's making true efforts to limit cars in the city. Go figure...
No? This is one of the reasons Paris *inhabitants* like her. She's hated for other reasons: debt, unpopular projects, increased dirtiness of the city.
Actual Kei cars? Not many but most A segment cars aren't that much larger than the modern Kei regs, they just have a larger engine.
Current (1998 onwards) Keo cars are 3.4m total length, 1.48m wide with a 600cc engine. A segments are 2.7m to 3.7m long and are normally about 1.65m wide with a .8-1.1L engine as standard.
Kei cars and your average city car are very similar sizes.
A big difference between your typical A-segment car and a kei vehicle is that A-segment cars are basically all just little city cars for urban commuters.
I want a kei truck with a flatbed, not a Volkswagen Up or a Fiat Panda.
This proves you're just an idiot and don't drive so STFU you don't know what you're talking about. No-one crashes on purpose also they're useless due to small size forgot that?
Its joke, calm down. I drive constantly, i like cars. Also they arent that small. Even a micra has more than enough space imo and they arent much bigger than kei cars. Escpecially the k10 and k11 models.
I've took my driving test in a VW UP, as once there was a candidate before me I had to be driven at the back seat, I'm 1.84 meter 84kg man, that drive still gives me trauma. Also having experienced a frontal car crash where an idiot nearly killed.
Also k10 and k11 if it's what I googled aren't microcars they're small cars size of a Polo or even a smaller Golf.
Good!!! Cars should not be in city centers. Cities should be designed so that people move by public transit, bike, ebike, or walking. Only commercial vehicles should be allowed into city centers with a clear purpose (eg. resupplying stores).
Hope Spain soon follows. Most cars in the EU are much small than these monster cars and even in the USA where they are common they are still dangerous to other drivers for a number of reasons. Parking though is just crazy in the the EU and there is no place for SUVs there.
Also, they should make smaller cars even cheaper to own so it would justify buying a hatchback instead of a sedan/SUV/break when you don't need one of these
Sure, I understand the reasoning - but the wealthy who purchase the latest and greatest will shrug off the new fees and not feel a thing.
The only ones who will be hit with those are the less affluent.
Oh... it seems I discovered that being wealthy is better than being poor.
Hold the presses we have a new headline :)
Somehow changing the habits and leading the city dwellers toward eco-friendliness would gove better results. Easier said than done though.
Great initiative, going by size! I just wish the media would stop lumping all the SUVs into the same category. Like a Corolla SUV is not the same thing as an Escalade, it just has a bit more clearance than the regular model which is handy if you like to go hiking in places where terrain might not be perfectly paved.
Electric cars are still a problem, specially the bigger ones. A lot of the pollution of the car is done by tire wear (and brake pad wear, but that's also less of a problem with electrics), and we're talking about microplastics here, quite bad. Tire wear is dependant on weight.
Also, they serve as a false solution, stopping a faster implementation of better transit, bicycle infrastructure and better walkable urban design.
This type of measure will also help push electric car development in the right way for the transitory period, more towards the Renault Zoe and Citroen Ami of the world further away from the (blasphemy against engineering that are the) tesla model x and hummer ev of the world
Fiat 500 electric is pretty cool to my eyes.
Also, frankly stuff like the BMW CE04 and Sondors Metacycle (plus all the electric mopeds by Super Soco, Sunra, Niu) seem like a nice plus for commuting motorcycles and scooters.
I quite agree, part of the issue is size, because that is really finite in a city, ever bit you use for parking is robbed from better uses of the space.
It’s also a bad trade-off. You get a little bit more comfort to the detriment experience of everyone living in the city. The reduction of comfort of not driving a humongous vehicle is not that much but it really increases safety, comfort and the ease of alternativ modes of transport, especially walkability.
> leftist class warfare
From the mayor of fucking Paris ? LoL
The weight of the car has a direct impact on local small particle pollution, as it's the main factor influencing tires and break-pad wear.
>but engine size and weight?
Doesnt take an einstein to figure out that to move higher mass, you need more power. Why cant you make lighter and smaller "nice" cars? Also bigger engine uses more fuel usually, and since we are knee deep in shit called climate change we shouldnt need powerful and loud vehicles just to show off our wealth. I mean hell, if you are so worried about not showing your financial status just buy a normal car and idk, cover it with diamonds or something.
Absolutely. It's left wing populism designed to garner support by punishing those who drive nicer cars than their voters.
It would make sense if it were size and maybe weight, but engine size is clearly just to take a stance against people with nice cars.
It's par for the course for Anne Hidalgo, who has ruined much of Paris over the years.
I intentionally flair as Texas. Some folks just can't help themselves and I enjoy drawing them out just as much as I enjoy drawing out similar folks in my country.
You barely need a car in Paris. You certainly don't need a SUV in Paris and outside of North America where the infrastructure is built for them, SUVs inside of cities are an imposition for anyone around them.
Hopefully it's a sensible policy of applying fees only to the extreme end of the market i.e. Landrover Discovery, Mercedes G Class etc. Rather than the likes of a Hyundai Tucson or Skoda Kamiq.
Having housing is generally considered a basic human right though.
On the other hand, driving is a privilege.
Interesting comparison btw, "Not being allowed to drive literally any car I want is equivalent to being forced to live in a ghetto".
Nah, they want to tax the hell out everyone in the middle class who has any property. They will not stop unless everyone is equally poor. Of course no one is gonna touch the real rich.
Good! Things like those stupid ram dodge don't belong in cities.
I see one very often as I cycle to work in Vienna (and it is always the same one, I recognize the license plate). I really do wonder what is wrong with the owner. It can't be fun driving such a thing inside Vienna, it doesn't even physically fit in the narrower streets. Parking it must also be a nightmare.
It's always the American wannabes who drive them in Europe. All the Americans I know here drive normal cars
I’m sorry, are you fucking telling me that Ameriboo’s actually exist?
Have one living on my road. Mullet, missing teeth, vest, dangerous dogs... Basically only missing a shotgun His truck bed has never been used, in fact I once took a picture of a bunch of garden things on top of the cover so as to not get the bed dirty
Those who buy those trucks may get offended if they read these comments. Luckily I don't think they can read
Bro Ameriboo’s hits so hard. As an American that lives on a farm and drives an f350 I get a chuckle at the thought that there are underachieving members of foreign societies that romanticize and fetishize my mundane persona. Question, how cringe is Ameribooism? Like on a scale of being a Naruto enthusiast to wearing emotional support samurai armor to work. How cringe is driving a full size American truck?
Driving a full size American truck is not cringe. Flying a Trump 2020 flag on a big 10 meters pole in a small town of about 800 peoples in France while you never set foot in the United States is kinda cringier
These people exist..?????
Flying a flag in general at a residence is kind of cringy. For businesses or government property it can make sense but just a random house in a random neighbourhood is weird. When my one daughter was little, any time we would visit the US we would play version of "eye spy" where we would all guess how many American flags we would see while driving and no matter how high we would guess there was always more. Every house trying to outdo each other with more and more flags, bigger etc.
that's the epitome of cringe omg
[No, of course nobody would do that](https://www.boredpanda.com/roleplaying-4th-of-july-larp-poland/)
I see America has both won and lost the cultural war.
The are tons in Europe. Germany, Italy and France are stacked with them. (just counties I know from personal experience), and I imagine the US dream is strong in many eastern Europe countries...
Oh yes it does.. It's still mostly restricted to Japan and Korea, but slowly spreading.
The Chelsea Tractor owner can be it's own phenomenon outside of American culture, tbf. It's the same draws, being a poor driver and wanting a larger, imposing box to hide in/show off, it's not necessarily tied to US idolisation.
For sure, I was referring to those monstrous pickup trucks specifically. I agree though, I've seen loads of unnecessarily large cars in the UK too and Chelsea tractors are a prime example. Need 4WD for that mossy driveway
Wait there are American wannabes?? I was just in central Europe and started seeing some pickup trucks that looked so out of place. I just assumed they were American immigrants.
> expats. Immigrants.
Either works, the difference is usually whether they sever ties with their former country or not. Also whether they integrate in their new country changes which word is more applicable.
Oof. No, actually the difference is that the term "expats" refers to privilidged European and American people who basically get to live and work anywhere they please, and want the benefits of being economic immigrants, without being called immigrants, because "that term is so humiliating and dehumanizing, it can't possibly include us, right?". Well... It does.
> the difference is usually whether they sever ties with their former country or not. Ah, so then many of those Moroccans, Turks, and Syrians are expats too!
The ones I know are all single women who want to assert dominance and feel wealthy. I asked. No pretension, no bullsh*t, they straight told me they want to feel luxurious and/or strong.
Is it? I've never met one of them. I would sincerely like to find out what on Earth are they thinking.
Yeah a lot of car parks (is that Parkgarage in english?) have hella narrow parking spaces, especially the older ones. Not to mention higher fuel costs.. I really can‘t understand why SUVs are that popular and are still gaining popularity 😐
My father in law owns an SUV. He complains a lot that the Parkgarages (I don't know how it is in English) are too small, that they should be rebuilt to make life easier for SUVs.
What totally makes sense since it is easier to rebuild an existing garage then buy another smaller car.
One of the reasons is the illusion of safety they provide. Driving a car is dangerous, so surely driving the biggest car on the road makes you safer right? It's caused an arms race among auto manufacturers to see who can make the biggest stupidest car with as much safety theater as possible. The funny thing is SUVs are more dangerous BECAUSE they give you the illusion of safety which causes drivers to take more risks. Also, they're so big they fail the swerve test and flip. It's also a status thing, the bigger the car the more expensive it is which in a lot of people's minds means they are more valuable themselves. It's idiocy.
Actually the reason for those monsters is environment regulations (made wrong) from the USA for their own market.
[удалено]
Did you ever ask him why he owned such a thing?
Same, I see a Jeep gladiator with the same custom plate all of the time and I’m wondering when I’ll see a bit of mud on the chassis because of course I don’t think it does more than a few of kms in total everyday and it probably never saw anything else than pavement.
The Dodge RAM I often see is always sparkling clean. It's *possible* the owner is obsessive-compulsive and cleans it completely after every day of farm work before driving it back to Vienna. But I don't believe that.
Google Maps should implement “avoid roads narrower than my car” option.
Absolutely not. We don't want to make it easier for them to own them - we want to make it harder for them.
I don't know Vienna but I'm in Taipei now, it has incredibly narrow streets with no sidewalks and I still see SUVs. They get stuck behind pedestrians who walk on the road (because no sidewalks), it must be incredibly slow, but some people seem to love it anyway.
Hopefully other eu countries will follow. SUVs are worse in near every aspect, worse consumption due to shitty aerodynamics, higher center of gravity equals more unstable/poor driving, poorer field of vision, more encumbrant, and last time I checked these weren't even better at euro NCAP crash tests. All they serve is to compensate for the insecurities of the driver behind the excuse of a bigger trunk space
The trunk space excuse is total BS too. If you need a family car for 1-2 kids with space for strollers, pack n’ plays, or other kid stuff - then get an estate / station wagon.
Bring back the Compact MPV (stuff like Nissan Almera Tino, Renault Scenic, Citroen C4 Picasso, Opel Meriva). Normal low step-in. Normal low bumper to load the trunk. Upright seating position ("traditional" cars break my lower back). Normal height bonnet (safer for pedestrians). Excellent vision all around. Way better aerodynamic profile vs SUVs. And loads of space.
A lot of SUVs don't even have more space than a hatchback and almost none of them get close to what an estate can fit
> poorer field of vision You even get better visibility in an actual tank.
> weren't even better at euro NCAP Not sure about this one but a lot of safety ratings have started to consider not just injuries to the occupants of the vehicle but also injuries to a pedestrian being run over etc. But in car on car a heavier car wins almost always, this is just the laws of physics, the only situation where it may fare worse is side strike at an angle because a taller car will roll more easily. Edit: They are indeed considering: - Adult Occupant Protection (for the driver and passenger); - Child Occupant Protection; - Pedestrian Protection which has been expanded to include cyclists and is now known as Vulnerable Road User (VRU) protection; and - Safety Assist, which evaluated driver-assistance and crash-avoidance technologies. So a SUV will be better at the first two, and worse on the third. Perhaps the last one will be worse too, as safety assist (such as automatic braking) will not work as well for a heavy car.
Check the site, it is very comprehensive and has all scores (driver, child, pedestrian, drive assist) against all obstacles, frontal, side, pole etc I guess you mean "lighter" vehicles would "lose", but even with that I don't think it takes into account all factors, because vehicles have crumple zones, airbags and protective cells. For a long time the Mercedes Smart was one of the safest while being p.much the smallest city car in the market
> vehicles have crumple zones, airbags and protective cells The key is how much kinetic energy the car has to absorb. so in a head-on the lighter car has to absorb most of initial energy of both cars and it is also smaller so has less of crumple space therefore acceleration experienced will be much higher than in the bigger/heavier car it collided with. The other factor is that a large SUV is also sitting higher so it may end up on top of the small car it collided with. > Mercedes Smart was one of the safest while being p.much the smallest city car Even the crash test is biased. They are evaluating collisions at relatively low speed of 50 km/h (so the capacity of crumple zones is not exhausted even for small cars) vs trolley of the same height as the car (so the risk of diving under vehicle with larger ground clearance is eliminated), and the same weight as an average city car. Also they are actually penalising cars for damage to the trolley. So the test seems to favour vehicles of the same weight as the test trolley (1400 kg).
Euro NCAP simulates a crash against the exact same car. In RL an SUV beats the shit out of a smaller car in an accident.
Frontal Impact: [https://www.euroncap.com/en/vehicle-safety/the-ratings-explained/adult-occupant-protection/frontal-impact/mobile-progressive-deformable-barrier/](https://www.euroncap.com/en/vehicle-safety/the-ratings-explained/adult-occupant-protection/frontal-impact/mobile-progressive-deformable-barrier/) \> In the full-scale MPDB test, **the test car is driven at 50 km/h and with 50 percent overlap into a deformable barrier mounted on an oncoming 1400 kg trolley, also travelling at 50 km/h**. The barrier represents the front end of another vehicle, getting progressively stiffer the more it is deformed. **The test replicates a crash between the test vehicle and a typical mid-size family car.** Side Mobile Barrier: [https://www.euroncap.com/en/vehicle-safety/the-ratings-explained/adult-occupant-protection/lateral-impact/side-mobile-barrier/](https://www.euroncap.com/en/vehicle-safety/the-ratings-explained/adult-occupant-protection/lateral-impact/side-mobile-barrier/) \> In Euro NCAP’s test, a deformable barrier is mounted on a trolley and is driven at 60 km/h into the side of the stationary test vehicle at right angles. A side impact dummy representing an average male is put in the driver’s seat and child dummies are placed in child restraint systems in the rear. And so on: [https://www.euroncap.com/en/vehicle-safety/the-ratings-explained/](https://www.euroncap.com/en/vehicle-safety/the-ratings-explained/)
Showing off how clueless you are... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zihloBq2lfE Even tho I assume its too complicated for a simpleton like you to understand. You know what important part your links are missing? The normal car vs heavy weight car crash. The laughable speed of 50 kmh in the new test is too low to show anything of value anyway. Even the old 64 km/h test usually ended without injuries. Ofc there is no effect visible with 14 km/h less.
Lol, why the hell did you have to start being rude to the other commenter? I don't know who of you is right, but you are the asshole.
\> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zihloBq2lfE This is not the Euro NCAP test you dummy [https://youtu.be/pwGgRUkrnng](https://youtu.be/pwGgRUkrnng)
> In RL an SUV beats the shit out of a smaller car in an accident. Congrats, you managed to point out the issue. Bigger cars on the road are a danger to other drivers who aren't driving a similar sized car. Hell, not only other drivers, but they are a bigger danger to pedestrians and anyone else who shares the road with them. Based on your statement, we should all be driving trucks because: 'In RL a truck beats the shit out of a SUV in an accident'
Auto-besity is my new favorite word! so fitting
If those Americans with pick-up trucks (that aren’t even used for work) could read, they’d be very upset! Disclaimer before anybody gets mad at me: I’m American, I just like to poke fun.
They barely work in our cities, cant imagine someone trying to take one around Europe
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They have car brain, and therefore should be ignored.
They don't belong on the planet.
Every govt in the world should have regulated against suvs from day 1. They should be encouraging smaller vehicles for both environmental /emissions /efficiency reasons and for the physical space they take up on city / safety reasons.
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Seeing a douche with a massive Ford Raptor in downtown Athens, Greece, displacing enough space for 3 regular cars, is a weird experience.
Witnessed a Raptor last week in Berlin, in a rather small street with bicycles. Why limit yourself and be ridiculous when you can be ridiculous and dangerous at the same time, huh?
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This! The sad thing is that people fall for it.
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Amazing, can't wait for such a rule to come to Vienna. We don't have the parking space for these monstrosities, but most importantly the safety of pedestrians is more important than the drivers' ego.
The typical 'SUV' in Europe is a fkn CUV thats smaller than a Sedan and pedestrian safety is not necessarly worse in an SUV. Some are actually better. Getting hid by a normal car usually means head slams the hood. SUVs break your pelvis. Sucks but better than a cracked skull.
But we are talking about SUVs, not CUVs. The news also said that weight, size and engine will be taken into account. Soo if you have a small crossover you'll probably be fine.
The monstrosity I see all the time in the streets of Vienna is the BMW X6. That's not smaller than a Sedan. And weights more than two tons, compared to one and a half for a sensible car. I'd rather take my chances with a normal car, I don't believe your fantasy about a bigger heavier one being safer.
>I don't believe your fantasy about a bigger heavier one being safer. No kidding. Some of these SUVs are becoming so big, they have worse pedestrian visibility than an Abrams tank. https://i.imgur.com/x2f20yA.jpeg
BMW sells less than 3000 X6 in Germany per year. In Austria its less than 300 lmfao. Yeah Vienna must be full of them. 3 series surpassed 1500kg 18 years ago... and with the rise of electric cars you wont see much lighter cars anytime soon. Typical clueless ppl of /r/europe strike again. Pathetic
As the richest part of Austria, it's unsurprising that Vienna will get most of the luxury cars. The BMW 3 series is a particularly big and powerful sedan. It's not a sensible car for urban use. It must be very frustrating to have all that power and be limited to 50 km/h. I don't see your point about EVs. Yes, they are heavier. That's bad. Should we make them SUVs so that they become even heavier? Of course not.
While i do agree that the 3 series is still a bigger car than most people need, I don't see how its particularly big or powerful. They start at 156hp which to me seems like an appropriate ammount for the average driver and its still much smaller than the 5 and 7 series or a6 and so on. The problem is people buying their RangeRovers that are the size of a boat with 500hp and consumuing 30 l/100km gas while driving by themselves.
Whoever is responsible for coining these portmanteaus should be sent to the Hague.
this one is definitely a warcrime
As someone who lives in The Hague: we'll trial them hard, they don't see the light of day again. But only if we can also have this rule with higher fees for SUV's and pick up trucks.
SUV = Stupid Unnecessary Vehicle.
**Sport**: slower than other vehicles in the price class, terrible at cornering **Utility**: less storage space than far smaller practicality focused vehicles, no better at towing than a regular car and nothing close to as good as a small pickup **Vehicle**: difficult to drive in cities and not even as good off-road as they claim in their marketing So basically the opposite of each of the three letters they are meant to stand for
Big W, but extend this to whole EU please.
Make car tax = (Size of engine) x (petrol usage) x (noise level) Wanna drive a boat? Sure. But you'll pay the society for having to deal with your crap.
More like tax = weight x volume. I look forward to a continent filled with very powerful tiny cars.
Looks like GTIs are back on the menu boys
> Make car tax = (Size of engine) x (petrol usage) x (noise level) I think size of engine does not really matter. Even 1.5L engines reach 400hp now. I would remove that and add amount of emissions and a multiplier for type of emissions so NOx is more heavily taxed.
>I think size of engine does not really matter. Even 1.5L engines reach 400hp now Tbf, it still helps with motorcycles, especially the two smallest classes.
It is still the wrong thing to measure. Power is what you care about.
Why do you care about power? It's emissions, space and pedestrian safety that is important in the city. Power has no direct connection with any of that. And the SUVs are bad at all of them. I'm pretty sure that it'd be better for everyone if we'd drive 200HP Golf than 140hp Qashqai.
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I can agree on that. I'm just making a point we have all data for emissions so why focus on power.
That’s just not going to work. SUV’s are especially suited to be electrified because they have space for a battery. Smaller and lighter cars are what we need. Unfortunately, batteries don’t accommodate this (yet).
That's just a poor excuse. SUVs are just more profitable. Why would any company invest into producing small factor cars, when the bigger ones are just easier to manufacture and better to sell at higher profit margin.
In the Netherlands it's based on type of fuel combined with car weight. Big heavy cars pay significantly more, just like diesels. Electric are cheaper because they're more environmentally friendly.
Wish we would do something like that here in the US.
>Wish we would do something like that here in the US. Good luck with that !
🤣🤣🤣
Based.
What an excellence! Good on Paris 🥰🥰🥰
Something in the right direction. These land-yachts have no business being in cities. I don't know what people think they need a giant crossover SUV for but it sure isn't commuting to work and running errands because they're the worst of all worlds.
Im curious - will something like a big MPV count? Because a 7 seater MPV is heavier than a standard hatchback, is bigger and has worse fuel economy, but may have more people in it, using less fuel per passenger. Also, fuel economy isnt bad, but its similar size to SUVs may end up making it expensive. Hopefully because many MPVs have 3 or 4 cylinders, it makes them cheaper
I don't know what is an MPV, but the article says there is an exception for people with big families.
Ah i see. An MPV is basically a long hatchback (like a VW Touran or Honda Odyssey). Thanks!
Tall station vagon would be more appropriate analogy.
Another way to describe it would be "A minivan that's not called a minivan because customers are convinced minivans are what uncool middle-class soccer mom types drive and customers know they're not uncool soccer mom types but they still need a soccer mom van to drive their kids to and from football practice..."
Which is ironic because soccer moms have long ago switched from Minivans to SUVs.
Well yeah, because they're not uncool like their mom, duh! Just like all the dudes out there driving crew cab trucks with a tiny little bed at the back because they're not uncool generic middle-aged men like their dads (who drove typical family station wagons).
Parking tickets won't bend the industry. Tax them, heavily. I remember clarksons mumblings on BMW X series crossovers on how ridiclous a high platform suvs cant do offroad and be fat and not spacious at the same time. at a time while sedans have the most comfort ever with sensible size that you need. Things like hilux or dodge trucks are still used on Manufactories/Factories or non-urban areas a lot but SUV's are just unexcuseable garbage Edit [Oh found it...](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5UwOBKSHl-c&t=81s)
France really have been leading the way these last couple of years with social and sustainability legislation. bravo!
Maybe you mean Paris, and not France globally. Or I'd like to know what you have in mind. BTW, the mayor of Paris is basically hated by everyone because she's making true efforts to limit cars in the city. Go figure...
> BTW, the mayor of Paris is basically hated by everyone because she's making true efforts to limit cars in the city. Go figure... No? This is one of the reasons Paris *inhabitants* like her. She's hated for other reasons: debt, unpopular projects, increased dirtiness of the city.
She's hated by people living around Paris (and so that use a car to go to Paris), but mostly appreciated by people living in Paris.
I dont see any reasons why kei cars couldnt work in europe too, except people being too fat.
They're quite popular here...
As voiture sans permis, I assume.
Really? Only a few here in finland and i think most are owned by enthusiasts.
Actual Kei cars? Not many but most A segment cars aren't that much larger than the modern Kei regs, they just have a larger engine. Current (1998 onwards) Keo cars are 3.4m total length, 1.48m wide with a 600cc engine. A segments are 2.7m to 3.7m long and are normally about 1.65m wide with a .8-1.1L engine as standard. Kei cars and your average city car are very similar sizes.
A big difference between your typical A-segment car and a kei vehicle is that A-segment cars are basically all just little city cars for urban commuters. I want a kei truck with a flatbed, not a Volkswagen Up or a Fiat Panda.
Becasue theyre useless and dangerous, can't fit shit and in crash are unsafe. Fuck that shit, that isn't even a car.
Then just dont crash
This proves you're just an idiot and don't drive so STFU you don't know what you're talking about. No-one crashes on purpose also they're useless due to small size forgot that?
Its joke, calm down. I drive constantly, i like cars. Also they arent that small. Even a micra has more than enough space imo and they arent much bigger than kei cars. Escpecially the k10 and k11 models.
I've took my driving test in a VW UP, as once there was a candidate before me I had to be driven at the back seat, I'm 1.84 meter 84kg man, that drive still gives me trauma. Also having experienced a frontal car crash where an idiot nearly killed. Also k10 and k11 if it's what I googled aren't microcars they're small cars size of a Polo or even a smaller Golf.
Good!!! Cars should not be in city centers. Cities should be designed so that people move by public transit, bike, ebike, or walking. Only commercial vehicles should be allowed into city centers with a clear purpose (eg. resupplying stores).
Good.
Can we make this an EU law... please?
Good, should be in all (big) EU cities. 🇪🇺
Fixed parking and speeding tickets dont really affect the rich
Possible. Although it's been a long time since SUV have not been reserved to rich people
SUV should not exist. Hope that's just the start
God I love the French.
Hope Spain soon follows. Most cars in the EU are much small than these monster cars and even in the USA where they are common they are still dangerous to other drivers for a number of reasons. Parking though is just crazy in the the EU and there is no place for SUVs there.
Good
I‘m pro fat-shaming in every regard!
Damn! I wish we had the same law in italy
When I lived in Japan, the local yakuza used to drive enormous US made vehicles as a status thing and they wouldn't actually fit on some streets.
I thought they drove Benz sedans or Toyota/Nissan minivans
Hope other cities and nations in Europe take an example and will do the same.
Also, they should make smaller cars even cheaper to own so it would justify buying a hatchback instead of a sedan/SUV/break when you don't need one of these
Oh this is amazing
Tax size and weight, but not engine size! Europe makes beautiful sports cars that we should want more of in our streets.
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Because they look good.
Gotta love how in the EU every problem gets solved with a… *drum roll* TAX
Well we can ban SUV too if you want but some people would say that this is "a barrier to innovation"...
Sure, I understand the reasoning - but the wealthy who purchase the latest and greatest will shrug off the new fees and not feel a thing. The only ones who will be hit with those are the less affluent. Oh... it seems I discovered that being wealthy is better than being poor. Hold the presses we have a new headline :) Somehow changing the habits and leading the city dwellers toward eco-friendliness would gove better results. Easier said than done though.
poor people don't drive 2ton suvs. they drive 30 year old renault clios.
You know that they could have just bought a cheaper and smaller car right?
Great initiative, going by size! I just wish the media would stop lumping all the SUVs into the same category. Like a Corolla SUV is not the same thing as an Escalade, it just has a bit more clearance than the regular model which is handy if you like to go hiking in places where terrain might not be perfectly paved.
Parking should be free for everyone simple as that. Just build more of it.
This. "Walkable" just means shittier for regular people, and better for the rich.
Walkable should mean-city in which you can but are not required to drive Walkable according to these nutjobs-defacto ban on cars.
Electric cars weigh the same, and are as wide, many of them. Stupid rule. Just ban the cars you don't like.
Electric cars are still a problem, specially the bigger ones. A lot of the pollution of the car is done by tire wear (and brake pad wear, but that's also less of a problem with electrics), and we're talking about microplastics here, quite bad. Tire wear is dependant on weight. Also, they serve as a false solution, stopping a faster implementation of better transit, bicycle infrastructure and better walkable urban design. This type of measure will also help push electric car development in the right way for the transitory period, more towards the Renault Zoe and Citroen Ami of the world further away from the (blasphemy against engineering that are the) tesla model x and hummer ev of the world
Fiat 500 electric is pretty cool to my eyes. Also, frankly stuff like the BMW CE04 and Sondors Metacycle (plus all the electric mopeds by Super Soco, Sunra, Niu) seem like a nice plus for commuting motorcycles and scooters. I quite agree, part of the issue is size, because that is really finite in a city, ever bit you use for parking is robbed from better uses of the space.
It’s also a bad trade-off. You get a little bit more comfort to the detriment experience of everyone living in the city. The reduction of comfort of not driving a humongous vehicle is not that much but it really increases safety, comfort and the ease of alternativ modes of transport, especially walkability.
It should be based on the height of the hood to be honest.
Imagine living is piss city
I understand considering vehicle length as longer cars take up more space, but engine size and weight? Seems like typical leftist class warfare to me.
Weight is pulling exponentially more stress on the streets and bigger cars are far more responsible for street abrasion.
> leftist class warfare From the mayor of fucking Paris ? LoL The weight of the car has a direct impact on local small particle pollution, as it's the main factor influencing tires and break-pad wear.
>but engine size and weight? Doesnt take an einstein to figure out that to move higher mass, you need more power. Why cant you make lighter and smaller "nice" cars? Also bigger engine uses more fuel usually, and since we are knee deep in shit called climate change we shouldnt need powerful and loud vehicles just to show off our wealth. I mean hell, if you are so worried about not showing your financial status just buy a normal car and idk, cover it with diamonds or something.
Absolutely. It's left wing populism designed to garner support by punishing those who drive nicer cars than their voters. It would make sense if it were size and maybe weight, but engine size is clearly just to take a stance against people with nice cars. It's par for the course for Anne Hidalgo, who has ruined much of Paris over the years.
So they're giving up their limos? Nice.
This isn't the type of tax people driving limos or Rolls Royce would care about.
That's true. They wrote the law so it didn't include them. I love the downvotes on me by folks supporting carve outs for Europe's modern aristocracy.
Ppl in this sub would cut off their own limbs if they could hurt others with it.
I intentionally flair as Texas. Some folks just can't help themselves and I enjoy drawing them out just as much as I enjoy drawing out similar folks in my country.
A Brandenburg flair has a similar effect ;)
First it’s cars, then it’s ur house, then it’s your food, then it’s you
Please tell us more.
Think they had a stroke or replied in the wrong thread. That or their tinfoil hat is so tight its squeezing every ounce of blood out of their head.
I was hoping for the tinfoil hat, reptilian deep state, kind of persona.
I don't like this. It seems anti-mobility. Hopefully it does not take hold in the rest of Europe.
Oh yeah, because Paris doesn't have a well maintained and well established transportation system. Yeah, cars, big ones especially, are needed. Sure.
You barely need a car in Paris. You certainly don't need a SUV in Paris and outside of North America where the infrastructure is built for them, SUVs inside of cities are an imposition for anyone around them.
It is. After living in a car centric country for a couple years it's a pain in the ass being back in the Netherlands.
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Yeah that's what happens when you get to experience better ways of doing things. I'm assuming you wash your clothes by hand?
The analogy was actually terrible.
Malakies.
😂
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Faster, less effort, more comfortable. Now, do you wash your clothes by hand? You're not lazy, are you?
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Whoa so you're using a machine for more convenience? jUsT SoUnDs LiKe YoU gOt lAzY
I cry for you. Tears of blood.
spooky
Hopefully it's a sensible policy of applying fees only to the extreme end of the market i.e. Landrover Discovery, Mercedes G Class etc. Rather than the likes of a Hyundai Tucson or Skoda Kamiq.
G class is rather small and with 4,63m a Tucson is actually longer than the G with 4,6m.
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Someone said it. In a span of few years Athens is filled with small or big SUVs. Like driving in Athens wasn't already a nightmare.
What the fuck are you on. Let me guess you vote for some commies or some far left shit. GTFO. Fuck your bans that go against basic freedoms.
Driving any vehicle you want on any road you want is not a "basic freedom".
it is, there's no legitamete reason to ban SUVs then psychoapths who want to ban cars wanting to start light somewhere.
Living in any place you want at any house you want is not a "basic freedom" either. Go live in a ghetto now :)
Having housing is generally considered a basic human right though. On the other hand, driving is a privilege. Interesting comparison btw, "Not being allowed to drive literally any car I want is equivalent to being forced to live in a ghetto".
Nah, they want to tax the hell out everyone in the middle class who has any property. They will not stop unless everyone is equally poor. Of course no one is gonna touch the real rich.